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| Ex-Giants Tiki Barber: Kirk Cousins is Best Quarterback in NFC East; Eli Manning is Old June 2nd, 2016 at 9:04 AM By Douglas Rush Well, Tiki Barber has gotten himself back in the headlines this week, and for the fan base of the New York Giants, his latest remarks are not going to go over well. When the retired Giants running back was asked about who he felt was the best quarterback currently in the NFC East; he didn't mention his former teammate in Eli Manning, but instead, said Washington Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins. "I think it has to be Kirk, it has to be." Why did Barber decide to not choose his former quarterback in Manning? As Barber put it, he said he's too old. “None of the guys from the Eagles excite me. Eli and Tony are old, and Kirk just feels like he took the right steps. We were talking early about how Tom Coughlin reinvented himself. Kirk, who is only 24 years old, reinvented who he was. There’s a lot to be excited about with him, especially if he keeps continuity with his coordinators and just keeps taking the small steps forward. You don’t need to take leaps and bounds but just take small steps forward. Especially if you have talent around you, which the Washington Redskins do.” Yes, Manning is now 35-years-old and is getting towards the later part of his career, while Cousins is just 27-years-old and has a lot more career left to go. But putting age aside, Cousins has had one good year in the NFL. Sure, he threw for 4,166 yards, 29 touchdowns and lead the Redskins to the NFC East division title for the first time since 2012. But anyone can have one good season in the NFL. Manning on the other hand, despite getting up in age, is still showing that he's capable of playing at a high and elite level; as he threw for 4,436 yards and 35 touchdowns last year and the year before, 4,410 yards with 30 touchdowns; all numbers that were better than when he was 27 and 28 years old. Before this season, Cousins looked like a struggling backup quarterback who was 2-7 as a starter. He did lead Washington to a 9-7 record and to the postseason, but he didn't even win his playoff game this past year, whereas Manning had won four of them by the time he was 27. Now to be fair, yes, Cousins did have a very good season and clearly established himself over Robert Griffin III as the rightful person deserving of the starting quarterback role. That's not even a debate, Cousins earned it. But to say Cousins is better than Manning or even Tony Romo based off one season? Sorry Tiki, but you are 100 percent dead wrong here. The two-time Super Bowl MVP and future Hall of Famer in Manning still has possession of that title. |
- Tiki
Seriously, those of you who load your diapers every time the guy has the nerve to have a negative opinion of the Giants, give it a rest. It gets old.
That made me laugh as well.
He tried the media thing and failed miserably. There is no shame in that as it is an incredibly tough business to succeed in.
He has the Thuzio thing he is heavily involved in and really he just needs to move on.
If I was writing a textbook on public relations and career switching I would dedicate a chapter to Tiki as an example to how to mismanage a career.
Seriously, those of you who load your diapers every time the guy has the nerve to have a negative opinion of the Giants, give it a rest. It gets old.
I don't know...I mean he is putting these out there for people to comment on. Just as he can say whatever he wants and you can defend him all you want, I think it's fair game to make fun of him whenever he makes idiotic statements like these. I mean, shouldn't you also say that his penchant for saying dumb shit gets old as well? Or have none of us earned the right to have an opinion and voice it?
He tried the media thing and failed miserably. There is no shame in that as it is an incredibly tough business to succeed in.
He has the Thuzio thing he is heavily involved in and really he just needs to move on.
If I was writing a textbook on public relations and career switching I would dedicate a chapter to Tiki as an example to how to mismanage a career.
A guess here, but my take is, "well, I tried like hell kissing Giants' fans asses as they still rejected me. So, Wth, I might as well go back to saying anything I want. Nothing to lose."
But someone should ask him when his best years were. Because it seemed Tiki's two best years were at the point where he was considered "old" for a RB.
Seriously, those of you who load your diapers every time the guy has the nerve to have a negative opinion of the Giants, give it a rest. It gets old.
No, it actually never gets old. Tiki deserves every bit of shade that gets thrown his way.
Yep. At this stage, trolling NY fans about Eli and Coughlin is most of what he has left in the tank in his media career.
And I loved Tiki the player. Pure heart.
Second, the actual question was "If you could pick any QB from the NFC East for the next 5 years, which one would it be?". And Tiki did say that if you asked him 2 years ago he probably would have picked Eli.
Second, the actual question was "If you could pick any QB from the NFC East for the next 5 years, which one would it be?". And Tiki did say that if you asked him 2 years ago he probably would have picked Eli.
Now, now.. you know people would rather make snap judgments than be aware of the context. This is the internet!
He tried the media thing and failed miserably. There is no shame in that as it is an incredibly tough business to succeed in.
He has the Thuzio thing he is heavily involved in and really he just needs to move on.
If I was writing a textbook on public relations and career switching I would dedicate a chapter to Tiki as an example to how to mismanage a career.
You realize he has a radio show where he is paid to give opinions?
Second, the actual question was "If you could pick any QB from the NFC East for the next 5 years, which one would it be?". And Tiki did say that if you asked him 2 years ago he probably would have picked Eli.
In 5 years there's a better chance than Cousins is a backup on another team and Eli is still playing at a high level.
That said, Tiki isn't the only fool. Prisco has Eli ranked #10 with The Rapist as #3 getting a pass because of injuries (Eli gets no credit for never missing a snap), Carson "Heimlich" Palmer #5 and Wilson and Rivers #8 and #9 respectively.
Prisco's Top 100 players: Ranking all 32 NFL starting quarterbacks - ( New Window )
What link?
Is that what he thinks though? Or is it just something he said to generate some press.
That's Tiki's #1 problem - not that he speaks his mind, but that he comes off as tremendously disingenuous. And that's why people don't like him, but they're willing to listen to analysts who are much worse.
Most recently, he co-hosted a morning show with Kelly Ripa, and is going to be one of the morning anchors on Good Morning America.
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Who cares? I don't agree with him but if that's what he thinks, that's what he thinks.
Is that what he thinks though? Or is it just something he said to generate some press.
That's Tiki's #1 problem - not that he speaks his mind, but that he comes off as tremendously disingenuous. And that's why people don't like him, but they're willing to listen to analysts who are much worse.
Is it really that insane to think someone could prefer Cousins if they were to pick one NFCE QB to take for the next 5 years? How much longer do we really expect Eli to perform at a high level? I'd love to say he'll still be doing it in 5 years but there's not a whole lot of precedent for that.
People here act like every ex-Giant should hold strictly pro-Giant opinions and shouldn't be allowed to express anything but. Tiki is always going to be a hot button, though. It is what it is.
Seriously, those of you who load your diapers every time the guy has the nerve to have a negative opinion of the Giants, give it a rest. It gets old.
That's the point that froze me with a huge WTF?
Tiki is a marvellous example of when a guy who has some brains is sorely deluded thinking he has much more. The whole shock jock thing, how many times can you beat a busted drum? Honestly I feel kinda sorry for him.
Does anyone see where he was trying to go with the TC comparison? I have an idea, but it's odd.
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In comment 12979642 arcarsenal said:
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Who cares? I don't agree with him but if that's what he thinks, that's what he thinks.
Is that what he thinks though? Or is it just something he said to generate some press.
That's Tiki's #1 problem - not that he speaks his mind, but that he comes off as tremendously disingenuous. And that's why people don't like him, but they're willing to listen to analysts who are much worse.
Is it really that insane to think someone could prefer Cousins if they were to pick one NFCE QB to take for the next 5 years? How much longer do we really expect Eli to perform at a high level? I'd love to say he'll still be doing it in 5 years but there's not a whole lot of precedent for that.
People here act like every ex-Giant should hold strictly pro-Giant opinions and shouldn't be allowed to express anything but. Tiki is always going to be a hot button, though. It is what it is.
OK, Eli might not have 5 years in him - but he's been extremely durable, so 3-4 is almost a given. Cousins has done nothing - *nothing*. Shit, even Romo might have been a better answer to this question, even with all his durability issues.
But like I said - it might be eyebrow raising coming out of someone else, but defensible. With Tiki, you're always left wondering what the motivation was behind the statement, and whether it was just his honest opinion.
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In comment 12979642 arcarsenal said:
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Who cares? I don't agree with him but if that's what he thinks, that's what he thinks.
Is that what he thinks though? Or is it just something he said to generate some press.
That's Tiki's #1 problem - not that he speaks his mind, but that he comes off as tremendously disingenuous. And that's why people don't like him, but they're willing to listen to analysts who are much worse.
Is it really that insane to think someone could prefer Cousins if they were to pick one NFCE QB to take for the next 5 years? How much longer do we really expect Eli to perform at a high level? I'd love to say he'll still be doing it in 5 years but there's not a whole lot of precedent for that.
People here act like every ex-Giant should hold strictly pro-Giant opinions and shouldn't be allowed to express anything but. Tiki is always going to be a hot button, though. It is what it is.
Yes, I expect Eli to play as long as or longer than Brady..It's far from a stretch to assume 5+ years from Eli. That will make him 39, Brady's age..In fact, it's probably SAFER to predict another 5 years for Eli, than it is to believe Cousins will perform anywhere near a top notch level the next 5 years. Stupid statement from an idiot, greatest Giants RB(by far imo) ever, notwithstanding
And we can't just assume that because Eli has been so durable that it will continue for another 5 years. We've all been watching this sport long enough to know that any player can be gone for a season (or worse) in one play. All it takes is one awkward landing or bad hit. It's the unfortunate reality of football.
I'd take Eli, personally.. but Tiki's opinion really isn't as insane as people are making it out to be.
Tiki really, really, REALLY stinks at this post-football career thing. He is absolutely awful at it.
"Why couldn't I have been named Michael or Mookie?"
- My dog Tiki
"...so durable that it will continue for another 5 years. We've all been watching this sport long enough to know that any player can be gone for a season (or worse) in one play. All it takes is one awkward landing or bad hit. It's the unfortunate reality of football..."
Of course and always an implicit given. Same can be said for Cousins with 'one play' as well..It knows no age
Actually his statement is quite comical..:)
The same number of people who expect that Cousins will regress this year when the rest of the NFCE isn't in shambles. There's a reason the Redskins didn't come to a contract extension with him.
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Romo can't outplay anyone from the sideline and his collarbone is basically a toothpick at this point. If he was durable I'd certainly prefer him to Cousins but that's part of the equation here. How many people really think Romo is playing 16 games in 2016?
The same number of people who expect that Cousins will regress this year when the rest of the NFCE isn't in shambles. There's a reason the Redskins didn't come to a contract extension with him.
The reason is because they couldn't come to an agreement.. not that the Redskins weren't interested in signing him long-term. They offered him a multi year deal that was over 16M per season. He wanted 20.
And he plays 10 games outside of the NFCE. He threw for 319, 4 TD's and 0 picks against the Bills late last year. It's not like he just stat padded against the Giants defense 16 times.
He had a good season last year.
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The same number of people who expect that Cousins will regress this year when the rest of the NFCE isn't in shambles. There's a reason the Redskins didn't come to a contract extension with him.
Yes and no. First, an extension could still happen by I believe July 15th. But this was always going to be a weird, hard contract once Cousins played well. The QB market is so crazy that he had to ask for a ton. Osweiler got $18 mil a year! When you have contracts like that as comps it makes the negotiation very hard from the team standpoint even if you are assuming they like him.
I think there was a report a while back Redskins wanted to pay $15 mil or so a year. But with Bradford and Osweiler along with others - I see that more as the reason there has been no long term deal.
Oh no! Greg doesn't know who I am!?
Get over yourself.
we have a winner. He has a bullshit podcast and wants listeners. Also, i recall you were able to have dinner with tiki for like 500 bucks i mean when eli retires can you imagine him whoring himself out to make a quick buck. Theres the football player tiki who i love and continue to love and look back with fond memories. He bled giants blue when he played and was a tough running back. His off the field stuff with his wife and leaving her pregnant he's a POS and everybody knows it.
Yet, when he says something that people disagree with, it's "fuck you even harder, Tiki. You're just trying to say something controversial to get your name out there."
Who the fuck is Douglas Rush? Just another douchebag on a clickbait Giants site trying to get attention for himself, I assume.
This is from January. So when another poster asks why this is being brought up now, the answer is simple: because so many jilted Giants fans will actively seek out things Tiki says just to then say that Tiki is the one trying to get attention. It's no better than Selena Roberts digging through ARod's trash, or paparazzi stalking celebrities for dirt.
Tiki has been the co-host of a 3-hour daily national radio show on CBS with Brandon Tierney for three years now. He is going to have some opinions on sports that people agree with or disagree with. People act as if the guy is unemployed but just shows up at Giants practices to troll.
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In comment 12979720 arcarsenal said:
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Romo can't outplay anyone from the sideline and his collarbone is basically a toothpick at this point. If he was durable I'd certainly prefer him to Cousins but that's part of the equation here. How many people really think Romo is playing 16 games in 2016?
The same number of people who expect that Cousins will regress this year when the rest of the NFCE isn't in shambles. There's a reason the Redskins didn't come to a contract extension with him.
The reason is because they couldn't come to an agreement.. not that the Redskins weren't interested in signing him long-term. They offered him a multi year deal that was over 16M per season. He wanted 20.
And he plays 10 games outside of the NFCE. He threw for 319, 4 TD's and 0 picks against the Bills late last year. It's not like he just stat padded against the Giants defense 16 times.
He had a good season last year.
Wow! The Bills!
End comment.
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In comment 12979730 jcn56 said:
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In comment 12979720 arcarsenal said:
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Romo can't outplay anyone from the sideline and his collarbone is basically a toothpick at this point. If he was durable I'd certainly prefer him to Cousins but that's part of the equation here. How many people really think Romo is playing 16 games in 2016?
The same number of people who expect that Cousins will regress this year when the rest of the NFCE isn't in shambles. There's a reason the Redskins didn't come to a contract extension with him.
The reason is because they couldn't come to an agreement.. not that the Redskins weren't interested in signing him long-term. They offered him a multi year deal that was over 16M per season. He wanted 20.
And he plays 10 games outside of the NFCE. He threw for 319, 4 TD's and 0 picks against the Bills late last year. It's not like he just stat padded against the Giants defense 16 times.
He had a good season last year.
Wow! The Bills!
End comment.
Solid contribution!
I guess I should go back and take away all of Eli's TD passes within our division or against bad defenses like the Saints, too. That's how this works, right? When another QB does it.. it's unimpressive and easily discounted but when it's our offense, we gladly take it and then point to how we had the "6th best offense", etc. etc.
Funny how that works.
Yet, when he says something that people disagree with, it's "fuck you even harder, Tiki. You're just trying to say something controversial to get your name out there."
Who the fuck is Douglas Rush? Just another douchebag on a clickbait Giants site trying to get attention for himself, I assume.
This is from January. So when another poster asks why this is being brought up now, the answer is simple: because so many jilted Giants fans will actively seek out things Tiki says just to then say that Tiki is the one trying to get attention. It's no better than Selena Roberts digging through ARod's trash, or paparazzi stalking celebrities for dirt.
Tiki has been the co-host of a 3-hour daily national radio show on CBS with Brandon Tierney for three years now. He is going to have some opinions on sports that people agree with or disagree with. People act as if the guy is unemployed but just shows up at Giants practices to troll.
Post Giant Tiki I could care less about. I dont think its farfetched to say once he retired, the shots he took on TC/Eli/Giants were for some spotlight and to promote his career. He has every right in doing so. It backfired in the end, since his career has been bit of a roller coaster. He has every right to his opinion, but early on - he took shots at the team, probably cause he was unhappy where the team was when he retired.
However, the animosity that fans have do have some legs. When it comes to the Giants, a lot has to do with traditions, culture, and a sense of always being part of an organization for their entire career. Look at guys like Banks, Carson, Toomer, etc who have come back and be part of the organization. Simms has already been part of the team, even though he has a duty to be neutral and say things that arent always positive about the team. Strahan has been on record complimenting everything about the Giants.
Tiki wanted very little or no part of that. And I think thats why fans slight him. I dont think he ever wanted to be a "Giant", I think he was just happy playing for them.
Never wanted to be a Giant? Wellington Mara would disagree would that.
How many of you wanna-be realists are going to address the content instead of being angry that fans defend their top notch QB?
He said that young Eli in the huddle was a bit comical vis a vis all the vets in the huddle. He shouldn't have said it, but was it really that big of a deal?
And all of his complaints were spot on. Watch every documentary about the Giants tenure under Coughlin and all of the vets who talk about it say the same thing. THe difference is that they look back fondly because they eventually won a ring. In fact, Coughlin was such an asshole that he had to create a veteran's committee just to liaise with the players and he had to change his approach to the players so that they could work together. Barring that change, it's likely the GIants don't win a ring.
Just because something better came along after Tiki (a Super Bowl), it doesn't mean that many aren't bitter that Tiki left during a Hall of Fame caliber prime for another option (broadcasting, and not becoming a crippled ex-player).
He said that young Eli in the huddle was a bit comical vis a vis all the vets in the huddle. He shouldn't have said it, but was it really that big of a deal?
And all of his complaints were spot on. Watch every documentary about the Giants tenure under Coughlin and all of the vets who talk about it say the same thing. THe difference is that they look back fondly because they eventually won a ring. In fact, Coughlin was such an asshole that he had to create a veteran's committee just to liaise with the players and he had to change his approach to the players so that they could work together. Barring that change, it's likely the GIants don't win a ring.
Just because something better came along after Tiki (a Super Bowl), it doesn't mean that many aren't bitter that Tiki left during a Hall of Fame caliber prime for another option (broadcasting, and not becoming a crippled ex-player).
Of course it was a big deal. You might be the one having the short memory. Eli took a beating in this town up until the end result of 2007. There was growing frustration with with his play. Everybody remembers the super bowl but not some of the more painful games Eli unfortunately put up on the way through his development. He was treated like a punching bag, and the best player on the team at the time hammering him wasn't helping the situation.
Yeah but, entirely different systems. Do you honestly believe Cousins would be able to function in the incredibly complex system Eli grew up with?
Never wanted to be a Giant? Wellington Mara would disagree would that.
Morning Paul. This hopefully is my last statement on the matter: I think many people such as myself felt that when Tiki said anything positive, he was simply a phony. Yes, no definitive way to prove it, but nevertheless it seemed like the prevailing feeling from fans..This, many of us feel is the REAL Tiki..Also not provable..
Greg, we both feel that Tiki was easily the best Giants RB ever..I'm sure you have personally felt animus or disgust with certain players or coaches through the years which effectively didn't affect your life one iota(anymore that Tiki affects my life), yet you certainly had your negative opinions on..Not talking about the abusive, or druggies, or murderers, just those who have rubbed you the wrong way..
I disagree completely with his take on Cousins, but statistically he had a great season. But do you think he's the only person that makes that comment?
Let's see how the NFL Top 100 rankings finish up. They have revealed 51-100, and Cousins is ranked 83rd. Eli is not on the list so far. Is he in the Top 50? In my opinion, yes, but I doubt he makes the cut.
Do you think the fellow NFL players who made this stupid list are just trying to be controversial and troll Eli as well?
I couldn't care less about Tiki, and these particular comments aren't a big deal, but to chalk this up to "BBI pants-wetters" is a bit much. Coughlin and Eli hate the guy, as do plenty of his teammates, his co-workers at NBC, his ex-wife and I'm sure many others.
Never wanted to be a Giant? Wellington Mara would disagree would that.
You're not really comparing what Toomer has said and done in his retirement compared to Tiki are you?
Theres a fine line of being critical/objective and trying to bolster your individuality at the expense of a team.
Blah blah blah ... shut up.
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Not for nothing, but Cousins had a pretty darn good year last year. I think Eli is a better QB but it's not like we're talking about Rex Grossman here. Eli hadn't even had a 25 TD season by age 27.. Cousins just tossed 29.
Yeah but, entirely different systems. Do you honestly believe Cousins would be able to function in the incredibly complex system Eli grew up with?
The system had complexities but there's no such thing as "easy" for QB's in this league.
Should I turn around and say the only reason Eli is putting up better numbers now is because he's playing in a QB friendly system? I think that's insulting to Eli. End of the day, you still have to make tough throws, diagnose different coverages, beat blitzes and be able to go through progressions with linebackers and defensive linemen flying at you and only short seconds to make decisions.
Playing QB in the NFL is probably the hardest thing to do in any sport regardless of system.
Tiki wants to give an "honest opinion" about Cousins' ascendance and Eli and Romo fading? As a former great player he has is surely cognizant the weight of performance in big and crucial games (like playoff games on the road) and ability to perform under the duress of a ferocious pass rush is critical.
Those considerations greatly outweigh compiling decent stats, especially over a single season and an 0 for in the playoffs.
Tiki knows this as sure as he knows how to lace up a pair of cleats, so his assessment is disingenuous.
That's what makes his "honest opinion" staged and laughable. Not worth getting pissed over, but pathetic.
My point with Toomer is that he comes back to camp, he goes to games, and IMO he has a genuine love for the team to this day. I dont know if Tiki does. Everyone is not going to say everything great about Eli and the Giants. I just think Tiki used the Giants a way to bolster his prominence - and I think it rubbed the Giants fans and many players the wrong way.
Tiki wants to give an "honest opinion" about Cousins' ascendance and Eli and Romo fading? As a former great player he has is surely cognizant the weight of performance in big and crucial games (like playoff games on the road) and ability to perform under the duress of a ferocious pass rush is critical.
Those considerations greatly outweigh compiling decent stats, especially over a single season and an 0 for in the playoffs.
Tiki knows this as sure as he knows how to lace up a pair of cleats, so his assessment is disingenuous.
That's what makes his "honest opinion" staged and laughable. Not worth getting pissed over, but pathetic.
I think Tiki's problem is his delivery. I dont think many can disagree with the points he makes, its the way he delivers it comes off kind of UNeducated and dickish.
Like this story....
If he had said he believes Cousins is only getting better and hitting his prime years while others like Romo and Eli are a little older and have wear and tear on their bodies.... then no one even cares. He just said Eli and Tony are old. Period.
For a very educated man, he comes off saying some Emmitt Smith type things.
Seriously you equate those lists to a point made by an analyst who presumably has been prepped on the question? No, those lists are simply extremely flawed. Show me a coach who would take Cousins right now for a playoff run over Eli. Would you?
Again, these were comments made in January. Why is this even a thread? Because clickbait Giants101 dug it up just to spew shit at Tiki.
So many Giants fans just want to swim in the bullshit and drama. They should never criticize their SOs for watching the Kardashians. And whaddyaknow, one of the most viewed recent threads is about them.
I disagree with this comment, but no issue with some guy having an opinion.
But for his comments comparing himself to Anne Frank or whining about Coughlin being too mean after Coughlin cured his fumbling problem, he can still go fuck himself.
'Eli is old' is crappy analysis. Plenty of great players suck as analysts.
Just for a playoff run? What about getting to the playoffs? What about week 1? Do we care how QBs fare then? Why are you specifically asking about a playoff run?
The TOp 100 rankings are flawed and stupid as are a lot of the ways that people evaluate players. The point remains that other players have rated Cousins above Eli. Passer efficiency stats rated Cousins above Eli last season. I still rank Eli well ahead of Cousins, but that's my opinion.
This idea that Tiki is being disingenuous by rating Cousins above Eli speaks more to your bias against Tiki than it does to Tiki's view.
Did PFF adequately prep for the question? Are they being disingenuous, or are they just reaching a different conclusion?
I can't imagine Strahan, Simms, or O'Hara acting like the spoiled brat Tiki. He is no stuck in the alligator suit he richly deserves. He is smug and condescending, and everyone saw it. He is getting everything he deserves.
Regarding your comment that it was no coincidence the Giants won the Super Bowl once they lost Tiki... post hoc, ergo propter hoc. There were plenty of things that changed between that 2006 team/season and that 2007 team/season.
Tiki is so pathetic, looking for attention.
Sincerely,
Tiki Barber
The new article isn't Tiki seeking attention. It's the writer - Douglas Rush (who?) - hyping some innocuous, dated remarks into sure-fire click bait.
Tiki with Chad Dukes in January. - ( New Window )
Most of this board doesn't care about context, unfortunately. It's just a race to see who can react to a headline the fastest and get their opinion in.
All you have to do is say the words "Tiki Barber" and the majority of BBI won't even look to see what he said or how he said it, they'll just jump right to posting about how much of a turd he is and how much they dislike him, etc.
But knowing Eli he wants another ring.
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In comment 12979705 arcarsenal said:
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Not for nothing, but Cousins had a pretty darn good year last year. I think Eli is a better QB but it's not like we're talking about Rex Grossman here. Eli hadn't even had a 25 TD season by age 27.. Cousins just tossed 29.
Yeah but, entirely different systems. Do you honestly believe Cousins would be able to function in the incredibly complex system Eli grew up with?
The system had complexities but there's no such thing as "easy" for QB's in this league.
Should I turn around and say the only reason Eli is putting up better numbers now is because he's playing in a QB friendly system? I think that's insulting to Eli. End of the day, you still have to make tough throws, diagnose different coverages, beat blitzes and be able to go through progressions with linebackers and defensive linemen flying at you and only short seconds to make decisions.
Playing QB in the NFL is probably the hardest thing to do in any sport regardless of system.
Not at all the point that I made. No system is "easy," but Gilbride's was at such a higher level of difficulty that there's no comparison.
And yes, I think the new offense absolutely contributes to Eli's success. It's difficult to imagine how it wouldn't. And that's no insult, because he's still using all his tools and knowledge to excel in it. If he had been in the current system throughout his career, his numbers would be stratospheric.
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In comment 12979805 BMac said:
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In comment 12979705 arcarsenal said:
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Not for nothing, but Cousins had a pretty darn good year last year. I think Eli is a better QB but it's not like we're talking about Rex Grossman here. Eli hadn't even had a 25 TD season by age 27.. Cousins just tossed 29.
Yeah but, entirely different systems. Do you honestly believe Cousins would be able to function in the incredibly complex system Eli grew up with?
The system had complexities but there's no such thing as "easy" for QB's in this league.
Should I turn around and say the only reason Eli is putting up better numbers now is because he's playing in a QB friendly system? I think that's insulting to Eli. End of the day, you still have to make tough throws, diagnose different coverages, beat blitzes and be able to go through progressions with linebackers and defensive linemen flying at you and only short seconds to make decisions.
Playing QB in the NFL is probably the hardest thing to do in any sport regardless of system.
Not at all the point that I made. No system is "easy," but Gilbride's was at such a higher level of difficulty that there's no comparison.
And yes, I think the new offense absolutely contributes to Eli's success. It's difficult to imagine how it wouldn't. And that's no insult, because he's still using all his tools and knowledge to excel in it. If he had been in the current system throughout his career, his numbers would be stratospheric.
No offense, but do you really know the intricacies of NFL offenses well enough to make that claim with authority? I doubt it.
The old offense was option heavy and relied on a lot of reads between the QB and WR but there are elements of this in every offense. I'm just not sure what you're basing your statement that our offense under Gilbride was "such a higher level of difficulty" on... as if Eli had to learn the NFL equivalent of quantum physics while everyone else only needed to learn to add and subtract.
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In comment 12979805 BMac said:
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In comment 12979705 arcarsenal said:
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Not for nothing, but Cousins had a pretty darn good year last year. I think Eli is a better QB but it's not like we're talking about Rex Grossman here. Eli hadn't even had a 25 TD season by age 27.. Cousins just tossed 29.
Yeah but, entirely different systems. Do you honestly believe Cousins would be able to function in the incredibly complex system Eli grew up with?
The system had complexities but there's no such thing as "easy" for QB's in this league.
Should I turn around and say the only reason Eli is putting up better numbers now is because he's playing in a QB friendly system? I think that's insulting to Eli. End of the day, you still have to make tough throws, diagnose different coverages, beat blitzes and be able to go through progressions with linebackers and defensive linemen flying at you and only short seconds to make decisions.
Playing QB in the NFL is probably the hardest thing to do in any sport regardless of system.
Not at all the point that I made. No system is "easy," but Gilbride's was at such a higher level of difficulty that there's no comparison.
And yes, I think the new offense absolutely contributes to Eli's success. It's difficult to imagine how it wouldn't. And that's no insult, because he's still using all his tools and knowledge to excel in it. If he had been in the current system throughout his career, his numbers would be stratospheric.
This is BS.
Apparently, both of you need to read up on Football 101.
No, they don't.. and that also has a lot to do with our offense these past 2 years. Probably just as much as the system.
If anyone wants to know what this offense would look like without Odell Beckham, go back and watch the SNF game in Minnesota. It was downright dreadful.
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Apparently, both of you need to read up on Football 101.
Nice response. Zero insight, contention points or substance. If you know a good deal about NFL offenses and systems, you sure haven't shown it.
But he went to Virginia! He's beyond reproach!
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Apparently, both of you need to read up on Football 101.
Every NFL system requires significant reads
Tiki often took the Giant's offense on his shoulders and actually was over 50% of its yards. He was, IMO, the best running back the NY Giants ever had.
Yeah, off the field put the camera on him. Just leave the mic off.
Makes you think...not sure if this was said but anyone notice the only time he is discussed is when does this Eli routine?
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Odell
No, they don't.. and that also has a lot to do with our offense these past 2 years. Probably just as much as the system.
If anyone wants to know what this offense would look like without Odell Beckham, go back and watch the SNF game in Minnesota. It was downright dreadful.
That offense featured Rueben Randle as the #1 WR with Will Tye as the starting TE.
The offense talent scared no one.
I think it's the latter.
In any case I hedged my criticism of Tiki based on the context of the interview; it seems now the article does in fact take Tiki's comment totally out of context and the attention seeker in this case is the blogger, not Tiki...
I haven't bothered to go back to the original interview but I believe the statements of the poster who linked it.
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In comment 12980048 xman said:
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Odell
No, they don't.. and that also has a lot to do with our offense these past 2 years. Probably just as much as the system.
If anyone wants to know what this offense would look like without Odell Beckham, go back and watch the SNF game in Minnesota. It was downright dreadful.
That offense featured Rueben Randle as the #1 WR with Will Tye as the starting TE.
The offense talent scared no one.
And yet, the Giants offense was top 10 in the league over the course of the entire season.
It's pretty safe to say that Beckham carries enormous weight. Without him, the 2015 Giants offense would have been putrid.
This year they'll have a first-place schedule and they're not going to sneak up on anybody. And there's lots of tape on Cousins now. Tougher going, play after play, game after game.
Im not against him having an opinion that isn't favorable with Giants fans either. But when his analysis is "Eli is old" is used as his reason, it just feels like he is trolling.
So sick of this fucking guy. Seriously, is Tiki the worst ex Giant ever?
Tiki is so pathetic, looking for attention.
This is a good point. How can anyone say Cousins is the best QB in the division going forward when his own franchise isn't willing to invest in him long term?
This is an era for better or worse where young, promising QBs are paid a premium and the Skins are taking a wait and see approach. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of Cousins and I don't see how anyone could make a reasonable argument for Cousins over Eli considering Eli's body of work.
Way to contribute to BBI, GMAN4LIFE. What a value-add.
That all said, I never really cared for Tiki long before the 'comical' comment from him. It was apparent to me that Tiki had an arrogant attitude about himself waaaay before those comments and he started turning me off while he was still playing. Tiki's biggest issue is he seems to have absolutely no 'tact' when it comes to speaking... which is weird because he's obviously a very intelligent man. But let's just say that he's not someone who I'd send to talk a guy off of a ledge and there are just some people like that. We all know someone who it seems whenever they open their mouths that you kind of 'wince' at what comes out of it. Actually... believe it or not.. my pastor of all people is a lot like that. Very good man and a true man of God... but every once in awhile you'd find yourself thinking 'Why would you say that?', with him.
Anyway... going back to my point. From him sticking his nose in Strahan's business when Strahan was going through his contract dispute... to a comment I remember him making regarding Jacobs being his backup (I wish I could remember the exact quote but I just remember the way he worded what he said thinking to myself 'What an ugly way to say that.' and it's what really first started turning me off to him)... to his 'comical' quote and bashing of Coughlin... Tiki has consistently shown absolutely no sense of how to be critical of something or someone but at the same time expressing himself in such a way that will make you think 'Hmmm... maybe he has a point.'. The way he usually expresses himself is usually so ugly that you don't care whether he has a point or not.
THIS doesn't appear to be one of those times though and I thank Scyber for pointing out the complete quote and context of what Tiki actually said. He's made enough 'foot-in-mouth' quotes in the past to jump on him for... but this isn't one of them IMO.
Would you send me, T-Bone?
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In comment 12980054 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 12980048 xman said:
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Odell
No, they don't.. and that also has a lot to do with our offense these past 2 years. Probably just as much as the system.
If anyone wants to know what this offense would look like without Odell Beckham, go back and watch the SNF game in Minnesota. It was downright dreadful.
That offense featured Rueben Randle as the #1 WR with Will Tye as the starting TE.
The offense talent scared no one.
And yet, the Giants offense was top 10 in the league over the course of the entire season.
It's pretty safe to say that Beckham carries enormous weight. Without him, the 2015 Giants offense would have been putrid.
It was no secret that ODB was the primary offensive target. But you can also make the argument that the offense had really only one option once we realized Cruz wasn't coming back. Name me another team that is a one threat option that was successful? If another week went by and there was more reps with RR and Tye as the primary receivers, the results would have been better. That was also an away game against a top notch defense.
Again, the talent outside of ODB on O last year was borderline insulting.
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But let's just say that he's not someone who I'd send to talk a guy off of a ledge and there are just some people like that
Would you send me, T-Bone?
Off a ledge? Sure!
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...to say whatever the fuck he wants. He can also be as wrong as he wants.
Seriously, those of you who load your diapers every time the guy has the nerve to have a negative opinion of the Giants, give it a rest. It gets old.
I don't know...I mean he is putting these out there for people to comment on. Just as he can say whatever he wants and you can defend him all you want, I think it's fair game to make fun of him whenever he makes idiotic statements like these. I mean, shouldn't you also say that his penchant for saying dumb shit gets old as well? Or have none of us earned the right to have an opinion and voice it?
Well said, could not agree more.
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In comment 12980046 AP in Halfmoon said:
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Apparently, both of you need to read up on Football 101.
Nice response. Zero insight, contention points or substance. If you know a good deal about NFL offenses and systems, you sure haven't shown it.
I see. So "this is BS" is a substantive response:"? Grow up.
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In comment 12980046 AP in Halfmoon said:
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Apparently, both of you need to read up on Football 101.
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Every NFL system requires significant reads
Who said they didn't?
As mentioned, the question was regarding what QB he would take out of the NFCe for the next 5 years - not which QB he thinks is the best right now.
5-month old interview - ( New Window )
Want to know how full of shit Giants101 is? Here is the beginning of the blog post.
When the retired Giants running back was asked about who he felt was the best quarterback currently in the NFC East; he didn't mention his former teammate in Eli Manning, but instead, said Washington Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins.
1. "Gotten himself back in headlines this week" He was interviewed on a radio spot and asked a question. He didn't voluntarily make a controversial statement. AND IT WAS BACK IN JANUARY. Also, which headlines outside of clickbait bullshit like this very blogpost?
2. Latest remarks? He said this in January. Meanwhile he has a 3-hour sports-talk radio show 5 days per week. He has made plenty of comments since then
3. "When the retired Giants running back was asked about who he felt was the best quarterback currently in the NFC East"
He wasn't asked who was the best quarterback currently in the NFC East. He was asked which quarterback he would take FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. Anyone with moderate intelligence understands the difference.
4. "he didn't mention his former teammate in Eli Manning"
Yes, he did mention Eli Manning. He specifically said that the only reason was age. He explicitly stated that two years ago he would have taken Eli. In fact, he made the exact same point about Romo whom many also think is a great quarterback.
He never once said that Kirk Cousins was better in any shape or form.. His answer was that it was Cousins by default. In his mind, he couldn't take Romo or Eli because of their age-- Eli is 35 years old. Most quarterbacks decline precipitously during those years.
He doesn't like the Eagles quarterbacks. And so his answer was basically that by default, you have to go with Cousins.
I disagree and I'd still take the next five years with Eli. But the idea that he ever once said that Cousins was better than Eli is bullshit. And anyone who believes that needs to re-evaluate their process of believing everything they read without a care for the source.
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In comment 12980049 BMac said:
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In comment 12980046 AP in Halfmoon said:
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Apparently, both of you need to read up on Football 101.
Nice response. Zero insight, contention points or substance. If you know a good deal about NFL offenses and systems, you sure haven't shown it.
I see. So "this is BS" is a substantive response:"? Grow up.
Well, firstly.. "this is BS" wasn't my post. So you're quoting the wrong person. Secondly, you're telling me I don't understand football or need to read "football 101" ..whatever that means.. while at no point demonstrating that you can back up your claim or posting anything remotely insightful. Your contribution to this thread was that Cousins "couldn't possibly function in the incredibly complex system that Eli grew up with". What is that based on? How well do you know the system the Redskins are running and what it entails? My guess is not too well.
I don't think so
Tiki is in the same boat...He now has a reputation, not just with Giants fans, but with the media and football fans. The media will use him for click bait and the moment he opens his mouth everyone will immediately have a strong opinion or reaction even if it isn't warranted.
Are you saying that not all my points are legitimate? Thats it, this means war!!!! haha
Tiki is in the same boat...He now has a reputation, not just with Giants fans, but with the media and football fans. The media will use him for click bait and the moment he opens his mouth everyone will immediately have a strong opinion or reaction even if it isn't warranted.
New day, new thought. JOrthman, agree. Here's the problem as I see it, rightly or wrongly. Tiki has said a bunch of stupid and irritating shit IN CONTEXT before and after the Eli and TC comments..When you do that, again, rightly or wrongly, you will RARELY be given the benefit of the doubt even if your comments, as these might have been, taken out of context.
I pay Tiki no mind. He rarely if ever enters my thought processes unless it's brought up here..On top of all that, leaving ANY woman for another woman whilst the person you're leaving is PREGNANT and obviously vulnerable, is a huge no-no and heinous, imo..That's the biggest irritant of all to me and why he will never be cut any slack with me..And yes, personal lives are discussed on here ALL THE TIME, it matters apparently..
Fuck Tiki Barber, inarguably the best RB we ever had, imho..
We will dethrone the Foreskins this year .
And Frig Tiki and his sour grapes .
Tiki basically said "Eli is 35, Romo is 36. By default, I'll go with Cousins five years from now"
This isn't about context. It's about idiots who believe anything they read regardless of the source and who enjoy being outraged instead of being informed. You can apply it to sports, politics, and everything in between.
For fuck's sake, the OP douchebag didn't even source the shameless blogpost that he copied and pasted.
For all we know he could have written that entire thing himself, made it up, and put it in a quotation box and it would have yielded the same reaction.
Tiki basically said "Eli is 35, Romo is 36. By default, I'll go with Cousins five years from now"
This isn't about context. It's about idiots who believe anything they read regardless of the source and who enjoy being outraged instead of being informed. You can apply it to sports, politics, and everything in between.
For fuck's sake, the OP douchebag didn't even source the shameless blogpost that he copied and pasted.
For all we know he could have written that entire thing himself, made it up, and put it in a quotation box and it would have yielded the same reaction.
Paul, I won't repeat my last post, because I stand behind it for reasons stated..Just responding to those who asserted it was out of context..Even a downright out and out lie doesn't change my overall opinion of Tiki contained within my post..
But people on here are too proud to acknowledge it and would rather just continue to pile on the guy because they get off on it the way people get off on gossip.
And as to his personal life, what does that have to do with anything? You are taking a very hard-line stance on something you know nothing about. He didn't walk out on his pregnant wife. They had been separated for several months beforehand and were living in a toxic environment where she abandoned him. It's amazing how easily people want to pry into people's personal lives and pass judgment.
The shifting of the goalposts with regards to attacking Tiki is amazing in its idiocy.
"Fuck Tiki for saying X"
"Tiki didn't say X. He said Y"
"Well fuck him anyway as if he said X, and fuck him for doing Z"
"What does Z have to do with anything?"
"Because fuck him, because X"
But people on here are too proud to acknowledge it and would rather just continue to pile on the guy because they get off on it the way people get off on gossip.
And as to his personal life, what does that have to do with anything? You are taking a very hard-line stance on something you know nothing about. He didn't walk out on his pregnant wife. They had been separated for several months beforehand and were living in a toxic environment where she abandoned him. It's amazing how easily people want to pry into people's personal lives and pass judgment.
The shifting of the goalposts with regards to attacking Tiki is amazing in its idiocy.
"Fuck Tiki for saying X"
"Tiki didn't say X. He said Y"
"Well fuck him anyway as if he said X, and fuck him for doing Z"
"What does Z have to do with anything?"
"Because fuck him, because X"
I didn't read the article. Don't need to. My feelings toward Barber are 100% based solely upon his character WHILE he was an active player. He was the biggest locker room cancer ever during his last two years as a player. I am convinced the Giants would NEVER have won a championship while he was on the team BECAUSE of the dissension he sowed and his hatred of TC.
And, because he was such a cancer, he wasn't a great RB for the Giants as a team. Just like TO wasn't a great WR for the Eagles (or 49ers or Cowboys) from a team standpoint.
So, while I don't really care what he says now, I will gladly sign on to the following attitude:
"Fuck Tiki for saying X"
"Tiki didn't say X. He said Y"
"Well fuck him anyway as if he said X, and fuck him for doing Z"
"What does Z have to do with anything?"
"Because fuck him, because X"
// My Signature on the Dotted Line for the Above //
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the benefit of the doubt. A click-bait blog made up an outright lie in every possible way (as I broke down earlier) and idiots fell for it because they wanted to and carried the torch of the nonsense it spewed.
But people on here are too proud to acknowledge it and would rather just continue to pile on the guy because they get off on it the way people get off on gossip.
And as to his personal life, what does that have to do with anything? You are taking a very hard-line stance on something you know nothing about. He didn't walk out on his pregnant wife. They had been separated for several months beforehand and were living in a toxic environment where she abandoned him. It's amazing how easily people want to pry into people's personal lives and pass judgment.
The shifting of the goalposts with regards to attacking Tiki is amazing in its idiocy.
"Fuck Tiki for saying X"
"Tiki didn't say X. He said Y"
"Well fuck him anyway as if he said X, and fuck him for doing Z"
"What does Z have to do with anything?"
"Because fuck him, because X"
I didn't read the article. Don't need to. My feelings toward Barber are 100% based solely upon his character WHILE he was an active player. He was the biggest locker room cancer ever during his last two years as a player. I am convinced the Giants would NEVER have won a championship while he was on the team BECAUSE of the dissension he sowed and his hatred of TC.
And, because he was such a cancer, he wasn't a great RB for the Giants as a team. Just like TO wasn't a great WR for the Eagles (or 49ers or Cowboys) from a team standpoint.
So, while I don't really care what he says now, I will gladly sign on to the following attitude:
"Fuck Tiki for saying X"
"Tiki didn't say X. He said Y"
"Well fuck him anyway as if he said X, and fuck him for doing Z"
"What does Z have to do with anything?"
"Because fuck him, because X"
// My Signature on the Dotted Line for the Above //
----------------------------------------------------
The Eagles got to the SB in one of the years TO was there and he was incredible in that game coming back early from a broken leg and playing at far less than 100%. I have no idea how anyone can say that TO held the Eagles back. The best teams they fielded probably ever were when he was there. They won 13 games one time in franchise history and it was one of the 2 years he was there.
The 07 Cowboys also won 13 games with Owens which was their best mark since 1992. Yes, the Giants massively upset them in the playoffs.. but that wasn't because of anything Owens did or didn't do.
I turned on Strahan during his early 2000 contract dispute (his right) after giving his assurance that he was team first and he'd be happy to move his money around so that we could afford to sign MUCH NEEDED FAs..When it came time to do so, he fucked his "team" and didn't sign a new or readjusted contract until AFTER all our coveted FAs were gone, iirc..So while he's an all-time great and one of our best ever, he wasn't the wonderful, team-oriented player he purported to be, imo
Noticing a trend here?
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In comment 12980893 PaulBlakeTSU said:
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the benefit of the doubt. A click-bait blog made up an outright lie in every possible way (as I broke down earlier) and idiots fell for it because they wanted to and carried the torch of the nonsense it spewed.
But people on here are too proud to acknowledge it and would rather just continue to pile on the guy because they get off on it the way people get off on gossip.
And as to his personal life, what does that have to do with anything? You are taking a very hard-line stance on something you know nothing about. He didn't walk out on his pregnant wife. They had been separated for several months beforehand and were living in a toxic environment where she abandoned him. It's amazing how easily people want to pry into people's personal lives and pass judgment.
The shifting of the goalposts with regards to attacking Tiki is amazing in its idiocy.
"Fuck Tiki for saying X"
"Tiki didn't say X. He said Y"
"Well fuck him anyway as if he said X, and fuck him for doing Z"
"What does Z have to do with anything?"
"Because fuck him, because X"
I didn't read the article. Don't need to. My feelings toward Barber are 100% based solely upon his character WHILE he was an active player. He was the biggest locker room cancer ever during his last two years as a player. I am convinced the Giants would NEVER have won a championship while he was on the team BECAUSE of the dissension he sowed and his hatred of TC.
And, because he was such a cancer, he wasn't a great RB for the Giants as a team. Just like TO wasn't a great WR for the Eagles (or 49ers or Cowboys) from a team standpoint.
So, while I don't really care what he says now, I will gladly sign on to the following attitude:
"Fuck Tiki for saying X"
"Tiki didn't say X. He said Y"
"Well fuck him anyway as if he said X, and fuck him for doing Z"
"What does Z have to do with anything?"
"Because fuck him, because X"
// My Signature on the Dotted Line for the Above //
----------------------------------------------------
The Eagles got to the SB in one of the years TO was there and he was incredible in that game coming back early from a broken leg and playing at far less than 100%. I have no idea how anyone can say that TO held the Eagles back. The best teams they fielded probably ever were when he was there. They won 13 games one time in franchise history and it was one of the 2 years he was there.
The 07 Cowboys also won 13 games with Owens which was their best mark since 1992. Yes, the Giants massively upset them in the playoffs.. but that wasn't because of anything Owens did or didn't do.
He was an organizational disaster for both teams. There's a reason why he bounced around so much. He was a cancer. And I really only care about the Giants. I loved Barber. Until HE became a "me first" locker room cancer. Fuck him. Forever.
His time in PHI certainly did not go well because of his issues with McNabb but if you don't think that team was significantly more difficult to play against when he was there, you're not remembering right.
You can say whatever you want about Owens' personality. The guy was dedicated to his craft and was one of the best WR's ever. He made every team he played for better. Nothing about his presence made the teams he played for worse on the football field so your entire premise is basically wrong in that regard.
If Tiki was still a Giant in 2007, the team still easily could have won the SB given the way the defense performed in that game specifically.
His time in PHI certainly did not go well because of his issues with McNabb but if you don't think that team was significantly more difficult to play against when he was there, you're not remembering right.
You can say whatever you want about Owens' personality. The guy was dedicated to his craft and was one of the best WR's ever. He made every team he played for better. Nothing about his presence made the teams he played for worse on the football field so your entire premise is basically wrong in that regard.
If Tiki was still a Giant in 2007, the team still easily could have won the SB given the way the defense performed in that game specifically.
I'm not saying TO wasn't talented. Obviously he was. But he was a huge disruptive force which is why he bounced from team to team. He was a locker room disaster.
More importantly, so was Barber. Biggest asshole while a player of any Giant in my lifetime. And it's sad - because he had great talent. But it turns out that he was willing to throw team unity under the bus for his "me first" attitude. Class one asshole and jerk. Like I say, I grew to hate him his last two years as a Giant. I don't care what he did as a running back - since, as a player, he didn't put the best interests of the Giants, as a team, first, then he wasn't really a Giant - just a running back on the roster - but nothing but a selfish me first prick.
lol ... the Giants have been a significant factor in my life - from my days as a kid in the 1950's and 60's - right up to the present day - and I get rather emotional about players who didn't put the team ahead of themselves ... one of the reasons I loved Simms ... and I love Eli ... is the difference between them and "me first" assholes like Barber, Burress and Shockey.
Better off without him. Wait, that was SB Champ Michael Strahan.
Burress is second on your list of guys the Giants were better off without? The Giants don't get to the Super Bowl in 2007 without Plaxico's ridiculous game at Green Bay in the frigid cold.
And then the team in 2008 went from best in the NFL to one of the worst offensive peroformances in the playoffs at home against the Eagles.
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If he was such a "cancer", why were his teams all better with him than without him? He also played in SF for 8 years.. let's not act like the guy played for 7 different teams. Buffalo and Cinci were at the very end of his career.
His time in PHI certainly did not go well because of his issues with McNabb but if you don't think that team was significantly more difficult to play against when he was there, you're not remembering right.
You can say whatever you want about Owens' personality. The guy was dedicated to his craft and was one of the best WR's ever. He made every team he played for better. Nothing about his presence made the teams he played for worse on the football field so your entire premise is basically wrong in that regard.
If Tiki was still a Giant in 2007, the team still easily could have won the SB given the way the defense performed in that game specifically.
I'm not saying TO wasn't talented. Obviously he was. But he was a huge disruptive force which is why he bounced from team to team. He was a locker room disaster.
More importantly, so was Barber. Biggest asshole while a player of any Giant in my lifetime. And it's sad - because he had great talent. But it turns out that he was willing to throw team unity under the bus for his "me first" attitude. Class one asshole and jerk. Like I say, I grew to hate him his last two years as a Giant. I don't care what he did as a running back - since, as a player, he didn't put the best interests of the Giants, as a team, first, then he wasn't really a Giant - just a running back on the roster - but nothing but a selfish me first prick.
If he was a "huge disruptive force", it had a funny way of not showing in football games.
Do you really think Owens' personality held any of the teams he played for back from being more successful? I don't. And that's basically what you're alleging was the case with Barber or would have been the case if he had stayed beyond 2006.
I think the Giants could have been every bit as successful with Barber as they were without him. Imagine Tiki behind the 2008 OL? Good lord.
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In comment 12980955 arcarsenal said:
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If he was such a "cancer", why were his teams all better with him than without him? He also played in SF for 8 years.. let's not act like the guy played for 7 different teams. Buffalo and Cinci were at the very end of his career.
His time in PHI certainly did not go well because of his issues with McNabb but if you don't think that team was significantly more difficult to play against when he was there, you're not remembering right.
You can say whatever you want about Owens' personality. The guy was dedicated to his craft and was one of the best WR's ever. He made every team he played for better. Nothing about his presence made the teams he played for worse on the football field so your entire premise is basically wrong in that regard.
If Tiki was still a Giant in 2007, the team still easily could have won the SB given the way the defense performed in that game specifically.
I'm not saying TO wasn't talented. Obviously he was. But he was a huge disruptive force which is why he bounced from team to team. He was a locker room disaster.
More importantly, so was Barber. Biggest asshole while a player of any Giant in my lifetime. And it's sad - because he had great talent. But it turns out that he was willing to throw team unity under the bus for his "me first" attitude. Class one asshole and jerk. Like I say, I grew to hate him his last two years as a Giant. I don't care what he did as a running back - since, as a player, he didn't put the best interests of the Giants, as a team, first, then he wasn't really a Giant - just a running back on the roster - but nothing but a selfish me first prick.
If he was a "huge disruptive force", it had a funny way of not showing in football games.
Do you really think Owens' personality held any of the teams he played for back from being more successful? I don't. And that's basically what you're alleging was the case with Barber or would have been the case if he had stayed beyond 2006.
I think the Giants could have been every bit as successful with Barber as they were without him. Imagine Tiki behind the 2008 OL? Good lord.
He was an asshole in the locker room. Those last two years were spent with newspaper articles following a number of games of Barber clashing with the head coach.
Yea. A great runner. But a jerk off. Like I said - I like Simms. Eli. and others who were/are clear "team first" guys. Fuck Barber. And Buress. And Shockey. Hated them all while they were on the roster (they were on the roster, but not the "team" - that's for sure - all three were fucking pricks).
The Tom Coughlin that arrived here in 2004 and the one that departed in 2016 were quite different.
But how can Burress be a cancer when he was the best player in the NFCC and caught the winning touchdown in the Super Bowl? And then when the Giants lost him mid 2008, they fell apart?
You forget that the entire team hated Coughlin in 2006.
You forget Strahan ripping Fassel while Fassel was at his mother's funeral.
You forget Tiki having all-time great games in 2006 carrying them to WINS which by all accounts saved Coughlin's job.
But how can Burress be a cancer when he was the best player in the NFCC and caught the winning touchdown in the Super Bowl? And then when the Giants lost him mid 2008, they fell apart?
You forget that the entire team hated Coughlin in 2006.
You forget Strahan ripping Fassel while Fassel was at his mother's funeral.
You forget Tiki having all-time great games in 2006 carrying them to WINS which by all accounts saved Coughlin's job.
I don't forget any of that. What I remember is Burress being fined repeatedly for blowing off team meetings. Burress being forced to sit down with Strahan (and Boley I think) and given a "talking to" because of his bad attitude. What I remember is Barber making headlines repeatedly the year before he announced his retirement - and then the year of his retirement, making it all about himself and his hatred of TC.
I'm entitled to think they were selfish pricks. I'm entitled to like Simms and Eli for their character and dislike Barber because he didn't have the character of Simms and Eli.
My contention is the absurdity that Plax was a cancer and that we couldn't win with him when he was a huge factor in winning a Super Bowl. That same contention applies to Tiki who was as productive as any offensive player in Giants history and carried the team on his back to a number of important wins, notably the last game of the 2006 season.
Calling them cancers is absurd. When they were on the field, the Giants were better.
My contention is the absurdity that Plax was a cancer and that we couldn't win with him when he was a huge factor in winning a Super Bowl. That same contention applies to Tiki who was as productive as any offensive player in Giants history and carried the team on his back to a number of important wins, notably the last game of the 2006 season.
Calling them cancers is absurd. When they were on the field, the Giants were better.
Well, they were cancers. They were NOT team players. They were selfish "me first" jerks. Now, nobody can argue about what they did on the field. But it is much more difficult to know the impact of their disruption. Maybe the Giants have a 3rd SB if Barber, Burress, and Shockey were clones of Eli personality wise.
Ok... that's one funny ass post. LOL!
Strictly for the record, although I too started disliking Tiki before the 'comical' comment, I never considered him to a cancer. Although I think he occasionally had a habit of opening his mouth and saying the wrong things at times... I'm of the opinion that he was really a 'divisive' presense in the locker room because, if I remember correctly, where all the players never really paid much attention to what Tiki said that may be thought of us 'cancerous' because they all just felt it was 'Tiki being Tiki' or something to that effect. Can't be much of a divisive force if you're not really dividing anything IMO. But again, that's just my opinion.
Oh yeah... and Greg's 12:58 is hilarious too. LOL!
Fact is he just doesn't like Eli and because Eli is so humble and laid back, Barber finds him an easy target.
Well, Eli will have the last laugh because when all is said and done, Eli will be in the Hall and Barber won't.