Person who has never run a route tree spout off about it, I'm going to puke. Every offense has the "route tree" it's 9 or 10 basics that can be flipped around and added to add more complicated routes. Every WR who has ever played one organized season has run the entire tree from the time he put on his shoes. That basic understanding just escapes all the writers and "experts" who love tossing out route tree. I ran the entire tree every week and we used about 1/3 of it games, but it doesn't mean I couldn't run a curl or a post corner, just that we didn't do it a lot. It's running a specified distance then doing something right or left or at an angle, this isn't fucking rocket science, it's running around and catching a football.
Person who has never run a route tree spout off about it, I'm going to puke. Every offense has the "route tree" it's 9 or 10 basics that can be flipped around and added to add more complicated routes. Every WR who has ever played one organized season has run the entire tree from the time he put on his shoes. That basic understanding just escapes all the writers and "experts" who love tossing out route tree. I ran the entire tree every week and we used about 1/3 of it games, but it doesn't mean I couldn't run a curl or a post corner, just that we didn't do it a lot. It's running a specified distance then doing something right or left or at an angle, this isn't fucking rocket science, it's running around and catching a football.
We used to run routes to the trees all the time. Hey, Randy--go long then hook over to that tree. And we had PLENTY of trees.
In comment 12984834 Joey in VA said:
[quote] Person who has never run a route tree spout off about it, I'm going to puke. Every offense has the "route tree" it's 9 or 10 basics that can be flipped around and added to add more complicated routes. Every WR who has ever played one organized season has run the entire tree from the time he put on his shoes. That basic understanding just escapes all the writers and "experts" who love tossing out route tree. I ran the entire tree every week and we used about 1/3 of it games, but it doesn't mean I couldn't run a curl or a post corner, just that we didn't do it a lot. It's running a specified distance then doing something right or left or at an angle, this isn't fucking rocket science, it's running around and catching a football. [/quote
Disagree for the most part joey. I agree with calling it a "tree" that's a little ridiculous and in particular how that vernacular has gone crazy I hate hearing it over and over again too,but running proper routes and running all of them like they are supposed to be run is not only important but the most important part of being a WR on the NFL level. The defenses are too good and complex and if you are not a prolific route runner you will get eaten up. You have to know..have to know when to sit in a zone, how to find the holes in a zone and when you have press coverage you better be able to make sharp cuts that help you separate and do them in the right direction. It is not rocket science but unless you are Randy Moss you better...better fucking know how to run amazing routes or you will be out of the NFL. You are way..way way oversimplifying things. It is not just running around and catching footballs. Most def not.
Person who has never run a route tree spout off about it, I'm going to puke. Every offense has the "route tree" it's 9 or 10 basics that can be flipped around and added to add more complicated routes. Every WR who has ever played one organized season has run the entire tree from the time he put on his shoes. That basic understanding just escapes all the writers and "experts" who love tossing out route tree. I ran the entire tree every week and we used about 1/3 of it games, but it doesn't mean I couldn't run a curl or a post corner, just that we didn't do it a lot. It's running a specified distance then doing something right or left or at an angle, this isn't fucking rocket science, it's running around and catching a football.
You're very wrong on this Joey. There's a reason why when you ask Lewis what has been the biggest challenge the first thing he brings up is the route tree. He's being asked to run routes that he hasn't run in years. There is a significant different between running a curl at the HS or Pop Warner level and NFL. The nuances and details are what differentiates guys on this level. Every step and body movement needs to be maximized. There are plenty of talented athletes out there. These things matter ... a lot.
It will be interesting to watch how he performs when the ...
team suits up and starts hitting with live competition. NFL.COM gave him a somewhat lukewarm draft profile; 5.19 rating with a 5th to 6th round projection.
but depending on where you play college ball kind of affects how well versed and precise you are running them.
Baylor WRs kind of run vague routes, but it's haphazard playground stuff. A tom coughlin offense would demand running crisp, disciplined routes (unless you're Plaxico Burress or Shockey).
Person who has never run a route tree spout off about it, I'm going to puke. Every offense has the "route tree" it's 9 or 10 basics that can be flipped around and added to add more complicated routes. Every WR who has ever played one organized season has run the entire tree from the time he put on his shoes. That basic understanding just escapes all the writers and "experts" who love tossing out route tree. I ran the entire tree every week and we used about 1/3 of it games, but it doesn't mean I couldn't run a curl or a post corner, just that we didn't do it a lot. It's running a specified distance then doing something right or left or at an angle, this isn't fucking rocket science, it's running around and catching a football.
Person who has never run a route tree spout off about it, I'm going to puke. Every offense has the "route tree" it's 9 or 10 basics that can be flipped around and added to add more complicated routes. Every WR who has ever played one organized season has run the entire tree from the time he put on his shoes. That basic understanding just escapes all the writers and "experts" who love tossing out route tree. I ran the entire tree every week and we used about 1/3 of it games, but it doesn't mean I couldn't run a curl or a post corner, just that we didn't do it a lot. It's running a specified distance then doing something right or left or at an angle, this isn't fucking rocket science, it's running around and catching a football.
You're very wrong on this Joey. There's a reason why when you ask Lewis what has been the biggest challenge the first thing he brings up is the route tree. He's being asked to run routes that he hasn't run in years. There is a significant different between running a curl at the HS or Pop Warner level and NFL. The nuances and details are what differentiates guys on this level. Every step and body movement needs to be maximized. There are plenty of talented athletes out there. These things matter ... a lot.
put your money where your mouth is, we need a route tree competition with all 9 routes: skinny post, fat post, slant and go w/curl, curl and go, the curl-hitch, slant and go, the screen and go, and screen. I think i'm missing one.
It's how well you run them. Does a receiver round he cuts or are they crisp. Does he stop quickly and explode out or not so much. Does he sell the route with believable fakes. Wide receiver is more of a skill position than an athletic one. There are many speedsters and many big receivers that never make it. We've had both.
But we also had Steve Smith who was neither big nor fast, but found a way to get open.
They have alternate voices you can choose now. My wife used the autotune guy the other day and it was pretty funny. There's also Colonel Sanders. I use the British woman though it is distracting when I'm in the car trying to drive AND masturb--I mean, distracting.
So many get knocked for it coming into the NFL. Go look up Antonio Browns draft profile. Even he was knocked for it.
If a guy shows an ability to plant and explode to get open on 1-2 routes I'd bet on him being able to do it on any route.
For young WRs it's more important to refine the ability to get off the line vs NFL talent. This is where they often struggle. If a young guy can do that he's won the biggest battle.
After that it comes down to quickness, exploding out of cuts, and the catching radius. The route tree falls far behind these skills.
Steve Smith was an exceptional athlete. He didn't just find a way to get open. He was super explosive in short areas. He could cut and explode to get open.
People often overlook what an outstanding athlete he was. Great basketball player. Super quick. He ran the 3 cone in 6.6s. That's an elite number. He also had a vertical close to 40".
this kid does not have to run the "tree." He is the answer in the red zone or inside the 30! Put the ball up there with doubles on Odell, or Cruz, or Shep, and he comes down with it!
was his having played in a pro style offense and his knowledge of the route tree. We all saw how that worked out.
Yeah according g to Jerry Reese and maybe Marc Ross, but nfl.com's analyst(S) very specifically cited the opposite and called Randle "a developmental project" or something similar.
In the end I agree somewhat with KWALL about guys "having tools or not" but honestly think it boils down to work ethic more than anything else - given the player has the requisite athletic ability. And by AA I don't mean stuff that shows up readily in combine tests.
I should say work ethic and "dog" to fight for every play, every ball, to carry out every assignment including blocking, decoy routhe running, setting picks.
Barden had no dog at all, Randle no dog and not the work ethic, whereas Jernigan for example simply did not have athletic skills pertinent to playing WR or returner, despite having solid combine drill athleticism.
It looks like Lewis has the skills so far; and OBJ is trying to instill or cultivate his "dog" while Eli nurtures the work ethic and learning curve.
Good stuff if he pans out against the odds like Cruz did. An FA plus Shepard turning into the goods would be awesome.
I believe this was Nolan Narwocki's take on Randle:
WEAKNESSES Randle is still developing many of his skills and will be more of a prospect. He still looked uncomfortable running some routes and isn't to a point where he is actively thinking about how to sell his corner on every play. He will take his eye off the ball across the middle and is inconsistent with his physicality.
DraftNasty's Corey Chavous said similar, not very complimentary things about Randle. I can't pull them up because I'm no longer a member, but I posted some in Randle's draft thread, so they're in the archives somewhere.
To be fair, there were other pundits who gave Randle more positive reviews prior to the draft,
RE: I believe this was Nolan Narwocki's take on Randle:
WEAKNESSES Randle is still developing many of his skills and will be more of a prospect. He still looked uncomfortable running some routes and isn't to a point where he is actively thinking about how to sell his corner on every play. He will take his eye off the ball across the middle and is inconsistent with his physicality.
DraftNasty's Corey Chavous said similar, not very complimentary things about Randle. I can't pull them up because I'm no longer a member, but I posted some in Randle's draft thread, so they're in the archives somewhere.
To be fair, there were other pundits who gave Randle more positive reviews prior to the draft,
Good job digging up the sources who questioned Randle. At the time I wasn't wild about the pick either with what limited video I saw of him. I wanted Sanu, and was kinda surprised the Giants passed on him.
This kid has a lot of potential, there is no doubt
At the same time, he is a long way from a sure thing.
At this point, I don't care what he did or didn't do in college. He's here now practicing with the team, so regardless of what his resume is, he can now be evaluated hands on. So far so good for him, it sounds, but we need to see what he brings when the pads come on and then in the preseason, then when the bullets fly for real.
For all of them, 1st rounders to the undrafted guys, it's the same process of evaluation once they get here.
At the same time, he is a long way from a sure thing.
[quote] Person who has never run a route tree spout off about it, I'm going to puke. Every offense has the "route tree" it's 9 or 10 basics that can be flipped around and added to add more complicated routes. Every WR who has ever played one organized season has run the entire tree from the time he put on his shoes. That basic understanding just escapes all the writers and "experts" who love tossing out route tree. I ran the entire tree every week and we used about 1/3 of it games, but it doesn't mean I couldn't run a curl or a post corner, just that we didn't do it a lot. It's running a specified distance then doing something right or left or at an angle, this isn't fucking rocket science, it's running around and catching a football. [/quote
Disagree for the most part joey. I agree with calling it a "tree" that's a little ridiculous and in particular how that vernacular has gone crazy I hate hearing it over and over again too,but running proper routes and running all of them like they are supposed to be run is not only important but the most important part of being a WR on the NFL level. The defenses are too good and complex and if you are not a prolific route runner you will get eaten up. You have to know..have to know when to sit in a zone, how to find the holes in a zone and when you have press coverage you better be able to make sharp cuts that help you separate and do them in the right direction. It is not rocket science but unless you are Randy Moss you better...better fucking know how to run amazing routes or you will be out of the NFL. You are way..way way oversimplifying things. It is not just running around and catching footballs. Most def not.
You're very wrong on this Joey. There's a reason why when you ask Lewis what has been the biggest challenge the first thing he brings up is the route tree. He's being asked to run routes that he hasn't run in years. There is a significant different between running a curl at the HS or Pop Warner level and NFL. The nuances and details are what differentiates guys on this level. Every step and body movement needs to be maximized. There are plenty of talented athletes out there. These things matter ... a lot.
Anyone hear how the Frenchmen has performed in camp?
NFL.COM Draft Profile for Roger Lewis - ( New Window )
Baylor WRs kind of run vague routes, but it's haphazard playground stuff. A tom coughlin offense would demand running crisp, disciplined routes (unless you're Plaxico Burress or Shockey).
Quote:
Person who has never run a route tree spout off about it, I'm going to puke. Every offense has the "route tree" it's 9 or 10 basics that can be flipped around and added to add more complicated routes. Every WR who has ever played one organized season has run the entire tree from the time he put on his shoes. That basic understanding just escapes all the writers and "experts" who love tossing out route tree. I ran the entire tree every week and we used about 1/3 of it games, but it doesn't mean I couldn't run a curl or a post corner, just that we didn't do it a lot. It's running a specified distance then doing something right or left or at an angle, this isn't fucking rocket science, it's running around and catching a football.
You're very wrong on this Joey.
Now you've done it. NOW YOU'VE DONE IT!!!
Quote:
Person who has never run a route tree spout off about it, I'm going to puke. Every offense has the "route tree" it's 9 or 10 basics that can be flipped around and added to add more complicated routes. Every WR who has ever played one organized season has run the entire tree from the time he put on his shoes. That basic understanding just escapes all the writers and "experts" who love tossing out route tree. I ran the entire tree every week and we used about 1/3 of it games, but it doesn't mean I couldn't run a curl or a post corner, just that we didn't do it a lot. It's running a specified distance then doing something right or left or at an angle, this isn't fucking rocket science, it's running around and catching a football.
You're very wrong on this Joey. There's a reason why when you ask Lewis what has been the biggest challenge the first thing he brings up is the route tree. He's being asked to run routes that he hasn't run in years. There is a significant different between running a curl at the HS or Pop Warner level and NFL. The nuances and details are what differentiates guys on this level. Every step and body movement needs to be maximized. There are plenty of talented athletes out there. These things matter ... a lot.
put your money where your mouth is, we need a route tree competition with all 9 routes: skinny post, fat post, slant and go w/curl, curl and go, the curl-hitch, slant and go, the screen and go, and screen. I think i'm missing one.
But we also had Steve Smith who was neither big nor fast, but found a way to get open.
If a guy shows an ability to plant and explode to get open on 1-2 routes I'd bet on him being able to do it on any route.
For young WRs it's more important to refine the ability to get off the line vs NFL talent. This is where they often struggle. If a young guy can do that he's won the biggest battle.
After that it comes down to quickness, exploding out of cuts, and the catching radius. The route tree falls far behind these skills.
People often overlook what an outstanding athlete he was. Great basketball player. Super quick. He ran the 3 cone in 6.6s. That's an elite number. He also had a vertical close to 40".
Lol
Full route tree or not, if you watch the tape you see a very athletic one trick pony, playing against inferior competition.
Yeah according g to Jerry Reese and maybe Marc Ross, but nfl.com's analyst(S) very specifically cited the opposite and called Randle "a developmental project" or something similar.
In the end I agree somewhat with KWALL about guys "having tools or not" but honestly think it boils down to work ethic more than anything else - given the player has the requisite athletic ability. And by AA I don't mean stuff that shows up readily in combine tests.
I should say work ethic and "dog" to fight for every play, every ball, to carry out every assignment including blocking, decoy routhe running, setting picks.
Barden had no dog at all, Randle no dog and not the work ethic, whereas Jernigan for example simply did not have athletic skills pertinent to playing WR or returner, despite having solid combine drill athleticism.
It looks like Lewis has the skills so far; and OBJ is trying to instill or cultivate his "dog" while Eli nurtures the work ethic and learning curve.
Good stuff if he pans out against the odds like Cruz did. An FA plus Shepard turning into the goods would be awesome.
DraftNasty's Corey Chavous said similar, not very complimentary things about Randle. I can't pull them up because I'm no longer a member, but I posted some in Randle's draft thread, so they're in the archives somewhere.
To be fair, there were other pundits who gave Randle more positive reviews prior to the draft,
Quote:
WEAKNESSES Randle is still developing many of his skills and will be more of a prospect. He still looked uncomfortable running some routes and isn't to a point where he is actively thinking about how to sell his corner on every play. He will take his eye off the ball across the middle and is inconsistent with his physicality.
DraftNasty's Corey Chavous said similar, not very complimentary things about Randle. I can't pull them up because I'm no longer a member, but I posted some in Randle's draft thread, so they're in the archives somewhere.
To be fair, there were other pundits who gave Randle more positive reviews prior to the draft,
Good job digging up the sources who questioned Randle. At the time I wasn't wild about the pick either with what limited video I saw of him. I wanted Sanu, and was kinda surprised the Giants passed on him.
At this point, I don't care what he did or didn't do in college. He's here now practicing with the team, so regardless of what his resume is, he can now be evaluated hands on. So far so good for him, it sounds, but we need to see what he brings when the pads come on and then in the preseason, then when the bullets fly for real.
For all of them, 1st rounders to the undrafted guys, it's the same process of evaluation once they get here.
Hai