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WR Roger Lewis receiving 'real good feedback' at Giants OTAs

gidiefor : Mod : 6/7/2016 2:21 pm
By Jordan Raanan
Wide receiver Roger Lewis receiving 'real good feedback' at Giants OTAs - ( New Window )
Well he was an easy UDFA to think would catch on  
Mason : 6/7/2016 2:29 pm : link
His talent was never the issue.
Good article  
Randy in CT : 6/7/2016 2:37 pm : link
by JR there. These WRs might be damned good. DAMNED good.
If I see one more  
Joey in VA : 6/7/2016 2:47 pm : link
Person who has never run a route tree spout off about it, I'm going to puke. Every offense has the "route tree" it's 9 or 10 basics that can be flipped around and added to add more complicated routes. Every WR who has ever played one organized season has run the entire tree from the time he put on his shoes. That basic understanding just escapes all the writers and "experts" who love tossing out route tree. I ran the entire tree every week and we used about 1/3 of it games, but it doesn't mean I couldn't run a curl or a post corner, just that we didn't do it a lot. It's running a specified distance then doing something right or left or at an angle, this isn't fucking rocket science, it's running around and catching a football.
I like Lewis's  
madgiantscow009 : 6/7/2016 2:54 pm : link
route treeing potential.
RE: If I see one more  
Randy in CT : 6/7/2016 2:55 pm : link
In comment 12984834 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Person who has never run a route tree spout off about it, I'm going to puke. Every offense has the "route tree" it's 9 or 10 basics that can be flipped around and added to add more complicated routes. Every WR who has ever played one organized season has run the entire tree from the time he put on his shoes. That basic understanding just escapes all the writers and "experts" who love tossing out route tree. I ran the entire tree every week and we used about 1/3 of it games, but it doesn't mean I couldn't run a curl or a post corner, just that we didn't do it a lot. It's running a specified distance then doing something right or left or at an angle, this isn't fucking rocket science, it's running around and catching a football.
We used to run routes to the trees all the time. Hey, Randy--go long then hook over to that tree. And we had PLENTY of trees.
It should be called  
madgiantscow009 : 6/7/2016 2:57 pm : link
a "root" tree.

if a route tree falls in the forest...  
Klaatu : 6/7/2016 2:58 pm : link
Does it break right or left?
RE: If I see one more  
bluetothegrave : 6/7/2016 3:02 pm : link
In comment 12984834 Joey in VA said:
[quote] Person who has never run a route tree spout off about it, I'm going to puke. Every offense has the "route tree" it's 9 or 10 basics that can be flipped around and added to add more complicated routes. Every WR who has ever played one organized season has run the entire tree from the time he put on his shoes. That basic understanding just escapes all the writers and "experts" who love tossing out route tree. I ran the entire tree every week and we used about 1/3 of it games, but it doesn't mean I couldn't run a curl or a post corner, just that we didn't do it a lot. It's running a specified distance then doing something right or left or at an angle, this isn't fucking rocket science, it's running around and catching a football. [/quote

Disagree for the most part joey. I agree with calling it a "tree" that's a little ridiculous and in particular how that vernacular has gone crazy I hate hearing it over and over again too,but running proper routes and running all of them like they are supposed to be run is not only important but the most important part of being a WR on the NFL level. The defenses are too good and complex and if you are not a prolific route runner you will get eaten up. You have to know..have to know when to sit in a zone, how to find the holes in a zone and when you have press coverage you better be able to make sharp cuts that help you separate and do them in the right direction. It is not rocket science but unless you are Randy Moss you better...better fucking know how to run amazing routes or you will be out of the NFL. You are way..way way oversimplifying things. It is not just running around and catching footballs. Most def not.
so..  
ATL_Giants : 6/7/2016 3:07 pm : link
Bluetothegrave  
BlueLou : 6/7/2016 3:08 pm : link
agree with your point, but not your diction. "Prolific" is not what you meant to say...
Roger is the guy we gave to most money as an UDFA  
Coach Mason : 6/7/2016 3:08 pm : link
And his AA pops off the screen. His issue was the off the field stuff. If its behind him, he is one of my top UDFAs to make the team.
His highlights reel from BG was sick...  
BlueLou : 6/7/2016 3:11 pm : link
Ya gotta like that Eli and OBJ are perhaps paying a little extra attention to him...
RE: If I see one more  
JordanRaanan : 6/7/2016 3:11 pm : link
In comment 12984834 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Person who has never run a route tree spout off about it, I'm going to puke. Every offense has the "route tree" it's 9 or 10 basics that can be flipped around and added to add more complicated routes. Every WR who has ever played one organized season has run the entire tree from the time he put on his shoes. That basic understanding just escapes all the writers and "experts" who love tossing out route tree. I ran the entire tree every week and we used about 1/3 of it games, but it doesn't mean I couldn't run a curl or a post corner, just that we didn't do it a lot. It's running a specified distance then doing something right or left or at an angle, this isn't fucking rocket science, it's running around and catching a football.


You're very wrong on this Joey. There's a reason why when you ask Lewis what has been the biggest challenge the first thing he brings up is the route tree. He's being asked to run routes that he hasn't run in years. There is a significant different between running a curl at the HS or Pop Warner level and NFL. The nuances and details are what differentiates guys on this level. Every step and body movement needs to be maximized. There are plenty of talented athletes out there. These things matter ... a lot.
It will be interesting to watch how he performs when the ...  
Beer Man : 6/7/2016 3:12 pm : link
team suits up and starts hitting with live competition. NFL.COM gave him a somewhat lukewarm draft profile; 5.19 rating with a 5th to 6th round projection.

Anyone hear how the Frenchmen has performed in camp?
NFL.COM Draft Profile for Roger Lewis - ( New Window )
You learn routes in high school  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/7/2016 3:13 pm : link
but depending on where you play college ball kind of affects how well versed and precise you are running them.

Baylor WRs kind of run vague routes, but it's haphazard playground stuff. A tom coughlin offense would demand running crisp, disciplined routes (unless you're Plaxico Burress or Shockey).
And there are reads to consider  
AP in Halfmoon : 6/7/2016 3:15 pm : link
The route can change right up to the snap.
RE: RE: If I see one more  
Klaatu : 6/7/2016 3:19 pm : link
In comment 12984886 JordanRaanan said:
Quote:
In comment 12984834 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


Person who has never run a route tree spout off about it, I'm going to puke. Every offense has the "route tree" it's 9 or 10 basics that can be flipped around and added to add more complicated routes. Every WR who has ever played one organized season has run the entire tree from the time he put on his shoes. That basic understanding just escapes all the writers and "experts" who love tossing out route tree. I ran the entire tree every week and we used about 1/3 of it games, but it doesn't mean I couldn't run a curl or a post corner, just that we didn't do it a lot. It's running a specified distance then doing something right or left or at an angle, this isn't fucking rocket science, it's running around and catching a football.



You're very wrong on this Joey.




Now you've done it. NOW YOU'VE DONE IT!!!
I do  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/7/2016 3:21 pm : link
believe Jordan is correct on this. It's long been one of the knocks about quarterbacks and wide receivers coming out of Baylor.
Klaatu  
AP in Halfmoon : 6/7/2016 3:24 pm : link
Bahahahahaah
RE: RE: If I see one more  
madgiantscow009 : 6/7/2016 3:49 pm : link
In comment 12984886 JordanRaanan said:
Quote:
In comment 12984834 Joey in VA said:


Quote:


Person who has never run a route tree spout off about it, I'm going to puke. Every offense has the "route tree" it's 9 or 10 basics that can be flipped around and added to add more complicated routes. Every WR who has ever played one organized season has run the entire tree from the time he put on his shoes. That basic understanding just escapes all the writers and "experts" who love tossing out route tree. I ran the entire tree every week and we used about 1/3 of it games, but it doesn't mean I couldn't run a curl or a post corner, just that we didn't do it a lot. It's running a specified distance then doing something right or left or at an angle, this isn't fucking rocket science, it's running around and catching a football.



You're very wrong on this Joey. There's a reason why when you ask Lewis what has been the biggest challenge the first thing he brings up is the route tree. He's being asked to run routes that he hasn't run in years. There is a significant different between running a curl at the HS or Pop Warner level and NFL. The nuances and details are what differentiates guys on this level. Every step and body movement needs to be maximized. There are plenty of talented athletes out there. These things matter ... a lot.


put your money where your mouth is, we need a route tree competition with all 9 routes: skinny post, fat post, slant and go w/curl, curl and go, the curl-hitch, slant and go, the screen and go, and screen. I think i'm missing one.
Don't forget ...  
Beer Man : 6/7/2016 3:50 pm : link
Fast guy go long
It's not simply about knowing the different routes.  
Ira : 6/7/2016 4:07 pm : link
It's how well you run them. Does a receiver round he cuts or are they crisp. Does he stop quickly and explode out or not so much. Does he sell the route with believable fakes. Wide receiver is more of a skill position than an athletic one. There are many speedsters and many big receivers that never make it. We've had both.

But we also had Steve Smith who was neither big nor fast, but found a way to get open.
RE: so..  
gidiefor : Mod : 6/7/2016 4:14 pm : link
In comment 12984873 ATL_Giants - how did you come by that tape of Randy?
When I have trouble with my routes, I use this great App...  
Jimmy Googs : 6/7/2016 4:22 pm : link
RE: When I have trouble with my routes, I use this great App...  
Randy in CT : 6/7/2016 4:25 pm : link
In comment 12985017 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
They have alternate voices you can choose now. My wife used the autotune guy the other day and it was pretty funny. There's also Colonel Sanders. I use the British woman though it is distracting when I'm in the car trying to drive AND masturb--I mean, distracting.
Running the "full route tree" is overplayed  
KWALL2 : 6/7/2016 4:26 pm : link
So many get knocked for it coming into the NFL. Go look up Antonio Browns draft profile. Even he was knocked for it.

If a guy shows an ability to plant and explode to get open on 1-2 routes I'd bet on him being able to do it on any route.

For young WRs it's more important to refine the ability to get off the line vs NFL talent. This is where they often struggle. If a young guy can do that he's won the biggest battle.

After that it comes down to quickness, exploding out of cuts, and the catching radius. The route tree falls far behind these skills.

Ira  
KWALL2 : 6/7/2016 4:34 pm : link
Steve Smith was an exceptional athlete. He didn't just find a way to get open. He was super explosive in short areas. He could cut and explode to get open.

People often overlook what an outstanding athlete he was. Great basketball player. Super quick. He ran the 3 cone in 6.6s. That's an elite number. He also had a vertical close to 40".
Thanks for the tip Randy. I will try it out  
Jimmy Googs : 6/7/2016 4:35 pm : link
you know, the British woman thing...
RE: Don't forget ...  
muhajir : 6/7/2016 5:57 pm : link
In comment 12984958 Beer Man said:
Quote:
Fast guy go long

Lol
Klaatu has the best  
chopperhatch : 6/7/2016 6:19 pm : link
Images to describe the sitch, I can actually imagine Joey glaring at the screen with the exact same intensity. Haha.
Trust me,  
Marine One : 6/7/2016 7:30 pm : link
this kid does not have to run the "tree." He is the answer in the red zone or inside the 30! Put the ball up there with doubles on Odell, or Cruz, or Shep, and he comes down with it!
Watch his highlights  
DavidinBMNY : 6/7/2016 10:46 pm : link
90 % of them is Lewis going on a fly , getting past the defender and making the catch, sometimes acrobatically.

Full route tree or not, if you watch the tape you see a very athletic one trick pony, playing against inferior competition.
One of Reuben Randle's big selling points....  
GiantJake : 6/7/2016 11:50 pm : link
was his having played in a pro style offense and his knowledge of the route tree. We all saw how that worked out.
RE: One of Reuben Randle's big selling points....  
BlueLou : 6/8/2016 5:38 am : link
In comment 12985497 GiantJake said:
Quote:
was his having played in a pro style offense and his knowledge of the route tree. We all saw how that worked out.


Yeah according g to Jerry Reese and maybe Marc Ross, but nfl.com's analyst(S) very specifically cited the opposite and called Randle "a developmental project" or something similar.

In the end I agree somewhat with KWALL about guys "having tools or not" but honestly think it boils down to work ethic more than anything else - given the player has the requisite athletic ability. And by AA I don't mean stuff that shows up readily in combine tests.

I should say work ethic and "dog" to fight for every play, every ball, to carry out every assignment including blocking, decoy routhe running, setting picks.

Barden had no dog at all, Randle no dog and not the work ethic, whereas Jernigan for example simply did not have athletic skills pertinent to playing WR or returner, despite having solid combine drill athleticism.

It looks like Lewis has the skills so far; and OBJ is trying to instill or cultivate his "dog" while Eli nurtures the work ethic and learning curve.

Good stuff if he pans out against the odds like Cruz did. An FA plus Shepard turning into the goods would be awesome.
I believe this was Nolan Narwocki's take on Randle:  
Klaatu : 6/8/2016 6:57 am : link
Quote:
WEAKNESSES Randle is still developing many of his skills and will be more of a prospect. He still looked uncomfortable running some routes and isn't to a point where he is actively thinking about how to sell his corner on every play. He will take his eye off the ball across the middle and is inconsistent with his physicality.


DraftNasty's Corey Chavous said similar, not very complimentary things about Randle. I can't pull them up because I'm no longer a member, but I posted some in Randle's draft thread, so they're in the archives somewhere.

To be fair, there were other pundits who gave Randle more positive reviews prior to the draft,
RE: I believe this was Nolan Narwocki's take on Randle:  
BlueLou : 6/8/2016 7:16 am : link
In comment 12985568 Klaatu said:
Quote:


Quote:


WEAKNESSES Randle is still developing many of his skills and will be more of a prospect. He still looked uncomfortable running some routes and isn't to a point where he is actively thinking about how to sell his corner on every play. He will take his eye off the ball across the middle and is inconsistent with his physicality.



DraftNasty's Corey Chavous said similar, not very complimentary things about Randle. I can't pull them up because I'm no longer a member, but I posted some in Randle's draft thread, so they're in the archives somewhere.

To be fair, there were other pundits who gave Randle more positive reviews prior to the draft,


Good job digging up the sources who questioned Randle. At the time I wasn't wild about the pick either with what limited video I saw of him. I wanted Sanu, and was kinda surprised the Giants passed on him.
This kid has a lot of potential, there is no doubt  
UberAlias : 6/8/2016 8:15 am : link
At the same time, he is a long way from a sure thing.

At this point, I don't care what he did or didn't do in college. He's here now practicing with the team, so regardless of what his resume is, he can now be evaluated hands on. So far so good for him, it sounds, but we need to see what he brings when the pads come on and then in the preseason, then when the bullets fly for real.

For all of them, 1st rounders to the undrafted guys, it's the same process of evaluation once they get here.
At the same time, he is a long way from a sure thing.  
WillieYoung : 6/8/2016 2:45 pm : link
Thank you Captain Obvious
RE: Good article  
Hades07 : 6/8/2016 3:09 pm : link
In comment 12984804 Randy in CT said:
Quote:
by JR there. These WRs might be damned good. DAMNED good.



Hai
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