pivot, catch a pass and then cut his way up field has me giddy for the 2016 season for the first time
There's one camera angel of Cruz's TD catch in the 2011-12 Super Bowl that more than any spoke to how quick he is for me. He was in the frame, and just like that, he was out of. The camera man literally couldn't keep up.
By your logic, then nobody should be practicing right now.
Because OTAs and minicamps are virtually meaningless..He's been out two years and has been improving on the side..Why risk an injury/possible relapse in a meaningless 3 days? Why not wait until camp starts..Very, very stupid imho
who's been insanely conservative with his reps and rehab, are now letting him go too early? Sooner or later you let the guy play, gain confidence, and get over the mental hurdle. Simply waiting for the last possible second to let him loose can be detrimental to his hopeful comeback.
who's been insanely conservative with his reps and rehab, are now letting him go too early? Sooner or later you let the guy play, gain confidence, and get over the mental hurdle. Simply waiting for the last possible second to let him loose can be detrimental to his hopeful comeback.
What can happen now that can't happen in 6 weeks?
He can heal up even more. There's always continual healing going on after injury/surgery. Give him 6 more weeks. The internal healing will continue even after 6 more weeks, but he'll be closer to full-go then he is now..
Sheesh, you people unrelentingly call me a homer, say the Giants can do no wrong, well I think they've taken an unnecessary risk here..
Given that expectations on his health must be tempered anyways, I am actually happy he is getting out there a little earlier than TC to acclimate his body.
Jumping right into a full blown training camp seems more aggressive than getting out there running around in shorts, getting used to football motions, even if it's a bit earlier.
athletes fully heal but can't get over the mental aspect. They change their game to compensate, and end up being underwhelming.
Cruz needs reps and needs them badly. He isn't plug and play at this point, he's 2 years removed and needs to start getting after it. 6 more weeks of sitting around will do nothing for him. He's healed, he needs to work with the offense and learn game speed all over again.
The second player in the last year to be proclaimed 'done' by
who's been insanely conservative with his reps and rehab, are now letting him go too early? Sooner or later you let the guy play, gain confidence, and get over the mental hurdle. Simply waiting for the last possible second to let him loose can be detrimental to his hopeful comeback.
What can happen now that can't happen in 6 weeks?
He can heal up even more. There's always continual healing going on after injury/surgery. Give him 6 more weeks. The internal healing will continue even after 6 more weeks, but he'll be closer to full-go then he is now..
Sheesh, you people unrelentingly call me a homer, say the Giants can do no wrong, well I think they've taken an unnecessary risk here..
I think you are severely underrating the mentality behind a huge injury. Look at Derrick Rose. Fully healed, never played the same, turning into a jump shooter which isn't what he is good at. Too many guys like that to count.
If the Giants felt he can "heal more" then he wouldn't be out there. He needs to learn to play again.
athletes fully heal but can't get over the mental aspect. They change their game to compensate, and end up being underwhelming.
Cruz needs reps and needs them badly. He isn't plug and play at this point, he's 2 years removed and needs to start getting after it. 6 more weeks of sitting around will do nothing for him. He's healed, he needs to work with the offense and learn game speed all over again.
Except this isn't game speed. There is no contact. It's nowhere near what he will experience during the pre-season games, vanilla O or not..
Obviously, I hope nothing happens and he's fine and probably will be. I just disagree with many here and the Giants..Good thing I'm not the Giants Doc I guess, because even if he was completely "clean" healing-wise, I would advise the Giants to start next month. That it's not worth it..
The most important next step is how he feels tomorrow after
The counter point about being overly cautious with him is he only had half a season in year one of McAdoos offense - he could definitely use the reps with Eli now to be ready for the season.
athletes fully heal but can't get over the mental aspect. They change their game to compensate, and end up being underwhelming.
Cruz needs reps and needs them badly. He isn't plug and play at this point, he's 2 years removed and needs to start getting after it. 6 more weeks of sitting around will do nothing for him. He's healed, he needs to work with the offense and learn game speed all over again.
Except this isn't game speed. There is no contact. It's nowhere near what he will experience during the pre-season games, vanilla O or not..
Obviously, I hope nothing happens and he's fine and probably will be. I just disagree with many here and the Giants..Good thing I'm not the Giants Doc I guess, because even if he was completely "clean" healing-wise, I would advise the Giants to start next month. That it's not worth it..
Well he isn't just going to be thrown into games. He nees to do drills, put in reps, graduate to non contact drills, etc. It isn't as simple as him just being a full go all of a sudden. He needs to progress his rehab and slowly build up to the next level. If he never starts, how can anyone expect him to just be a full go?
I just disagree with many here and the Giants..Good thing I'm not the Giants Doc I guess, because even if he was completely "clean" healing-wise, I would advise the Giants to start next month. That it's not worth it..
Calling RAZE --- bring out so tatter tots -- there's an explosion brewing
but I hope the irony of you second guessing the Giants is not lost on you.
You often chastise other posters for criticizing personnel moves because they are the paid experts and we only have our own unprofessional views, but you are willing to second guess the doctors who examine him every day based on your opinion having never been near the man.
but I hope the irony of you second guessing the Giants is not lost on you.
You often chastise other posters for criticizing personnel moves because they are the paid experts and we only have our own unprofessional views, but you are willing to second guess the doctors who examine him every day based on your opinion having never been near the man.
It is a little hypocritical, no?
There's a difference. I'm second guessing from my area of expertise. I had decades of experience with healing, lay people or athletes..So even though I haven't a clue as to what his medical records say, I can ONLY GENERALIZE (given that not every case is the same) about what my conservative approach would be..
That is not hypocritical..Other areas I haven't a clue and even generalizing could be problematical..
I hate hate hate when BBI or any fan does that, but I'll give people a break on this one. When a player can't get on the field for 20 months and continues to injure the bread and butter of his success, it's fair to be skeptical if they'll ever return.
Couple that with his pretty hefty contract for a guy who can't currently be counted on, and it also makes you wonder that even if he could get healthy whether or not the Giants would be willing to bet on him.
But I'm happy we are where we are with him. I'm comfortable enough giving him a shot at being our #2 receiver. He's shown what he's capable of.
The mental part. He has to gain confidence that the legs will be good.
The patella tendon has been ready since last summer. The calf strain has had nearly 8 months to heal. Of the two, the knee is more an issue. Behre has been going full out since April.
but I hope the irony of you second guessing the Giants is not lost on you.
You often chastise other posters for criticizing personnel moves because they are the paid experts and we only have our own unprofessional views, but you are willing to second guess the doctors who examine him every day based on your opinion having never been near the man.
It is a little hypocritical, no?
There's a difference. I'm second guessing from my area of expertise. I had decades of experience with healing, lay people or athletes..So even though I haven't a clue as to what his medical records say, I can ONLY GENERALIZE (given that not every case is the same) about what my conservative approach would be..
That is not hypocritical..Other areas I haven't a clue and even generalizing could be problematical..
No offense man, but this is ridiculous. You're a doctor? OK, even if you are, you've never once examined him or know his current state. That's like a food expert declaring something delicious without having tasted it.
Jordan Raanan @JordanRaanan 12m12 minutes ago
Victor Cruz did individual drills at #giants minicamp. Working on side w/trainer during team drills
Joe, c'mon..My comments were from a GENERALIZED medical perspective, nothing more..I'm not even close to the
edge. Just expressing an opinion and offering reasons as you and others did..We all hope for the same thing. We differ in what we think, as fans, should be a course of action..
You're not alone. Everyone here agrees with you, not me. Still doesn't change my conviction on the timing of this
Cruz has claimed he has been healthy for months. It is good for him to actually do some drills now. It's a gradual process. It's better he start now than wait another 6 weeks for camp. If his body can't handle the gradual increase in work now, then 6 weeks isn't going to help. It's better to start easing him into things now.
It's probably having an enormously positive effect on Victor's mental/emotional state (and his teammates'), and it poses almost no more risk than his working out at a gym or doing running training on the side.
but I hope the irony of you second guessing the Giants is not lost on you.
You often chastise other posters for criticizing personnel moves because they are the paid experts and we only have our own unprofessional views, but you are willing to second guess the doctors who examine him every day based on your opinion having never been near the man.
It is a little hypocritical, no?
There's a difference. I'm second guessing from my area of expertise. I had decades of experience with healing, lay people or athletes..So even though I haven't a clue as to what his medical records say, I can ONLY GENERALIZE (given that not every case is the same) about what my conservative approach would be..
That is not hypocritical..Other areas I haven't a clue and even generalizing could be problematical..
No offense man, but this is ridiculous. You're a doctor? OK, even if you are, you've never once examined him or know his current state. That's like a food expert declaring something delicious without having tasted it.
Before you call this ridiculous, re-read what I said..Obviously you failed to comprehend what I said or didn't even bother to read it. I ALREADY addressed the medical records thing and my total lack of knowledge re their content. I was generalizing from my perspective as a retired surgeon and said, my approach, even if his records showed a "clean slate" would be to approach this very conservatively with him and wait until camp..
Since everyone thinks he's healthy the time to start is now. Now is better because if he gets hurt again, or if it becomes clear he won't be ready, it gives us more time to find a quality replacement via FA. IMO, if he got hurt now he would've gotten hurt in 6 months. It wouldn't have been stable either way.
RE: At some point the Giants need to find out what they have in Cruz
Since everyone thinks he's healthy the time to start is now. Now is better because if he gets hurt again, or if it becomes clear he won't be ready, it gives us more time to find a quality replacement via FA. IMO, if he got hurt now he would've gotten hurt in 6 months. It wouldn't have been stable either way.
Patterson - completely agree. I'd rather find out now than in late August........
I'll defend my good friend 56 here - I think skepticism towards the Giants is warranted given how often they've led the league in injuries in recent years. His experience allows him to add some value to go along with that skepticism.
I have no opinion on the matter because I know nothing. Hopefully Cruz can contribute.
athletes fully heal but can't get over the mental aspect. They change their game to compensate, and end up being underwhelming.
Cruz needs reps and needs them badly. He isn't plug and play at this point, he's 2 years removed and needs to start getting after it. 6 more weeks of sitting around will do nothing for him. He's healed, he needs to work with the offense and learn game speed all over again.
Do you think 3 days of pitch and catch and not having to go over the middle in their gear, is going to tell us anything as to his readiness?
Sorry and reapectfully disagree..
Look, it's been a good conversation and many have made salient points. I just have a differing of opinion, timing-wise..
Ok, I've had my say and appreciate the back and forth without anything getting personal..A quiet barroom "fight."
:)
No your position is not wrong, nor is it right. It is just an opinion.
The pitch and catch does a couple things and puts no more stress on the legs than his sideline sessions.
What it does do:
1.) Gives him confidence in the wheels
2.) He starts to get some timing with the QBs
3.) Lets the Giants see him on the field to see if he has developed any bad habits by not running routes for a year
4.) Did I say he gains confidence in the legs...?
Doesn't really sound like taking a more conservative approach. Sounds like you have decided the medical staff doesn't know what they are doing. Again, a bold and definitive proclamation for having never met the patient or seen even one of his medical records.
Your opinion may be right, or it may be wrong - I have no idea. But it seems strange coming from the champion of "We all have to defer to their judgment since they know more facts than we do!"
Back surgery was an example of an injury that can get better with more time. He should have been PUP'd. This is a different injury, one that he's been healed from for a while and needs to get back into shape after 2 years. If he was out of football less than a year I'd be fine with him taking it easy. But we are way past that now. It's mainly mental and game speed now and every little bit helps him get over that hump.
Doesn't really sound like taking a more conservative approach. Sounds like you have decided the medical staff doesn't know what they are doing. Again, a bold and definitive proclamation for having never met the patient or seen even one of his medical records.
Your opinion may be right, or it may be wrong - I have no idea. But it seems strange coming from the champion of "We all have to defer to their judgment since they know more facts than we do!"
In being conservative towards my medical approach vs allowing him to go at this point, I view this as very, very stupid. As I said, if I had access to all his records and I saw that he was really doing well, I STILL would have had him forego any practice(aside from what he was doing to get to this point) for this meaningless 3 day period of pitch and catch..
My medical approach would have been to be ultra conservative for another 6 weeks. Again, even if they showed me 100% of all his records and tests, I still would have kept him out until camp..So yes, I believe this risk, given what he's gone through the last two years of "being ready, no he's not, he's good to go, no he isn't" ping pong, would not be worth it for this 3 day period..
We all know any Cruz production this year
LI NHB : 11:53 am : link : reply
is a bonus for the organization.
Given that expectations on his health must be tempered anyways, I am actually happy he is getting out there a little earlier than TC to acclimate his body.
Jumping right into a full blown training camp seems more aggressive than getting out there running around in shorts, getting used to football motions, even if it's a bit earlier.
I don't think they will run him into the ground at this point but it's uplifting to the Team and himself .
At some point in time he will get hit and hit hard letting him get re-acclimated is just what he needs come camp then full bore rather find out sooner than later
if he is gonna hold up .
Victor has worked hard to gety back here god bless ya ...
if he can get close to where he was good luck stopping this offense .!!
If anyone accuses you of speaking without info, you claim you're just speaking generally, but "speaking generally," is not an option when it comes to medicine. For all you know strengthening impacted joints and muscles right now is better for his future than resting.
I'm making that up as an example obviously, but the point being made is that having any reaction other than surprise or lack of surprise is silly, let alone being so confident to call it very very stupid.
Of course I'm generalizing, but I also said several times on this thread, that EVEN IF I HAD THE RECORDS IN FRONT OF ME, my conservative inclination and how I always practiced, would be to keep Cruz out of this, especially given his two year history..That's how I practiced and that's what I'd do here even of I deemed him healed or almost so. My mindset would be, his body can wait another 6 weeks, given the lack of importance (IMO) of the 3 day pitch and catch..
Now, if this were training camp, I would definitely not hold him out the extra 5-6 weeks until the regular season started. I would absolutely have him go full tilt to see what he does or doesn't have..I think THESE extra 6 weeks would have been good for him. It cannot hurt, imo, especially since he'll have all of camp and pre-season games to prove his mettle..Plenty of time to assess. This is an unnecessary risk imv and I have explained ad nauseum why..
and recoveries like this it's not really about game shape or contact or anything to do with football-only. It's about walking before you run so to say. Giving the player confidence little by little and realizing that there IS six weeks between now and when shit gets serious - so they can take their time a bit and not put undue pressure on the player to rush their return. So he ran a couple routes at 3/4 speed, then cooled down on the sideline and worked a bit more. Good. I see absolutely no harm in this if he was cleared already. (and i'd venture to say that he is cleared for more but they are being very patient given what transpired last year)
they have been conservative though, I think that's the point in Cruz's case. They literally haven't rushed a single thing at all. At some point he needs to start testing it and getting past just stretching and strengthening.
I know we all joke about Giants and their injuries but they still have access to the top medical professionals in the country. If they thought he needed more time he'd be getting it.
I trust the opinion of trained medical professionals when it comes to injuries more than I do professional scouts when it comes to talent evaluation. I wouldn't compare the two as apples to apples.
RE: RE: Watching the video of him break off the line, slam on the breaks
There's one camera angel of Cruz's TD catch in the 2011-12 Super Bowl that more than any spoke to how quick he is for me. He was in the frame, and just like that, he was out of. The camera man literally couldn't keep up.
Ha, I remember that. It wasn't just the cameraman that couldn't keep up, neither could the DB. That move was just unbelievably quick.
Again, all good points, especially from people on here
but I hope the irony of you second guessing the Giants is not lost on you.
You often chastise other posters for criticizing personnel moves because they are the paid experts and we only have our own unprofessional views, but you are willing to second guess the doctors who examine him every day based on your opinion having never been near the man.
It is a little hypocritical, no?
There's a difference. I'm second guessing from my area of expertise. I had decades of experience with healing, lay people or athletes..So even though I haven't a clue as to what his medical records say, I can ONLY GENERALIZE (given that not every case is the same) about what my conservative approach would be..
That is not hypocritical..Other areas I haven't a clue and even generalizing could be problematical..
BB56, I trust your judgement. Gut feelings based on years of experience is worth a lot.
He has been very consistent throughout the years in begging for a conservative during the off-season to protect from injury. And he is an experienced orthopedist. And while I differ with him about today's practice which was only individuals and only modestly different from his sideline work - his opinion should at least be respected as a medical opinion and a consistent belief on his part.
Of course he is a tested and known quantity as a tatter tot canon as well -- so I like to throw that in from time to time
I hope he can give us a full season. If so look out defensive backs..who are you going to cover.....Eli and Receiving Corp are going to make it very exciting.
I hate hate hate when BBI or any fan does that, but I'll give people a break on this one. When a player can't get on the field for 20 months and continues to injure the bread and butter of his success, it's fair to be skeptical if they'll ever return.
Couple that with his pretty hefty contract for a guy who can't currently be counted on, and it also makes you wonder that even if he could get healthy whether or not the Giants would be willing to bet on him.
But I'm happy we are where we are with him. I'm comfortable enough giving him a shot at being our #2 receiver. He's shown what he's capable of.
This is also not proof it will last and he will hold up at age 30 after 2 years of lower leg injuries. I am thrilled but still not terribly optimistic about this long term.
last year he was basically doing the same thing, trying to come back from a season ending injury... My question is for how long was he practicing last year before he got hurt again? Was it immediately after that initial practice or was he out there for a few weeks??
He has been very consistent throughout the years in begging for a conservative during the off-season to protect from injury. And he is an experienced orthopedist. And while I differ with him about today's practice which was only individuals and only modestly different from his sideline work - his opinion should at least be respected as a medical opinion and a consistent belief on his part.
Of course he is a tested and known quantity as a tatter tot canon as well -- so I like to throw that in from time to time
No problem with his more experienced opinion. I know '56 is dying for a healthy Cruz and the way we have been teased with is comebacks makes us all gunshy even without '56s medical knowledge. So I can see where he is coming from.
who's been insanely conservative with his reps and rehab, are now letting him go too early? Sooner or later you let the guy play, gain confidence, and get over the mental hurdle. Simply waiting for the last possible second to let him loose can be detrimental to his hopeful comeback.
What can happen now that can't happen in 6 weeks?
He can heal up even more. There's always continual healing going on after injury/surgery. Give him 6 more weeks. The internal healing will continue even after 6 more weeks, but he'll be closer to full-go then he is now..
Sheesh, you people unrelentingly call me a homer, say the Giants can do no wrong, well I think they've taken an unnecessary risk here..
While it is nice to see him practicing... I do have fear of him getting back too early as well. ( no medical knowledge here tho ). Just fear in gut.
and maybe it's minicamp and it's a half speed type deal, but he looks like he lost a little burst out of the break.
He not only stopped quicker than the guy behind him, he was quicker after the catch. He also seemed to snatch the ball quicker than I remember.
I'm willing to bet it is not a game speed drill.
Of seeing what he has now (because the team has invested so much already). It's cruel but pragmatic - If he's going to break down, better now than later.
From a PURELY medical perspective, Big Blue is probably right, but in this case is a cold mix of business opportunity, money and medical.
I suspect that his knee cap is fully healed after two years and that his freaky calf injury is being looked at in the same light as Berhe's calf (who I believe is doing full speed practicing)
If he does came back strong, the Giants will field the most fearsome passing attack in the NFL.
They have a team to be fair to as well. If they can't get insight into where Cruz is on his recovery path...they may have to add wr to the cuts and agents and the potential of Boldin.
Cruz may be better with more rest or not. That's the first unknown neither of us has insight into from out here in the bleacher seats.
The second is that the very first team to hAve a wr set back in mini camp calls a Boldin or whomever.
Cruz recovery time table fits within the teams recovery and options
This is not Jerry Rice and the Giants need every improvement to overall talent on the field so there is a limit to patience.
A Giant fan alive that does not love Cruz, just to hear he is out there gives me a lift. I am in no position to comment on if this is bad, I think that any opinion about that topic is just that, an uninformed opinion, nothing better then for us to throw our weight around based on an uninformed opinion. I am being sarcastic, but who has not done that around here? LOL.
I am happy to hear he is out there, speaking as a fan who needs and wants to believe in this team once again, I gave up last season. I watched every game, but they were almost unwatchable, so I want plenty of good news, and it seems the Giants have been doing this all off season this year, I welcome all of it.
who's been insanely conservative with his reps and rehab, are now letting him go too early? Sooner or later you let the guy play, gain confidence, and get over the mental hurdle. Simply waiting for the last possible second to let him loose can be detrimental to his hopeful comeback.
What can happen now that can't happen in 6 weeks?
He can heal up even more. There's always continual healing going on after injury/surgery. Give him 6 more weeks. The internal healing will continue even after 6 more weeks, but he'll be closer to full-go then he is now..
Sheesh, you people unrelentingly call me a homer, say the Giants can do no wrong, well I think they've taken an unnecessary risk here..
There is more and more evidence coming out that too much rest is not a good thing. The sooner you can get back to your normal routine the better. So, AP came back too early from his ACL injury?
or 6 weeks for now, he can hurt himself just as easily in 6 weeks?"
That is NOT how medicine works..The consideration is, does he have more of a chance of not injuring himself with more healing than he does now? Of course he can hurt himself at ANY time, that's not or shouldn't be the issue. It's about whether or not he will be better off given even more time despite technical clearance or not..Given the relative importance of minicamp vs training with pads and contact, I would have hoped he would have been given more time..
In sum, if I had access to his records and all us Doctors saw the same thing, I would be the nay vote in the room even as I looked at VC as good to go. I would give him more time KNOWING he has plenty of time to get up to speed with Camp and preseason games..
I remember all too well when he was given a clean bill of health from Patella surgery, only to suffer that calf injury(very little doubt from compensating) that shut him down..
But as I said, I was an ultra conservative practitioner as it pertained to healing. I ALWAYS preferred to err on the side of caution..
At no time by inference or overtly did I ever feel that VC would get hurt now, that, that was my expectation..It was and is not my expectation. I just felt, given my stance on healing through the years, that more time would be beneficial given that this is NOT training camp when things begin in earnest
RE: Stop the drama already. Its great news that he is
At some point he had to start pushing things as they go live in less than 2 months.
This^^^^. Man it's almost frightening how much sense Jimmy is making lately.
Fiddy, don't get your point at all about "not risking him" for this 3 day camp. Much moreso agree with the poster above who noted that after 2 years out of FB, the sooner he gets back to participating in regular drills the better. First of all to start shaking off the rust, and secondly to show the kids how it's done right.
With all due respect to OBJ, he isn't yet the vet leader that Cruz is, since VC was a bus driver on a championship squad.
who hasn't seen the field in 20 months is going to be held in much esteem by the youngsters.
You doubt these youngsters playing WR who are 22 years old now watched (and admired) Victor Cruz and the Giants' run to the SB Championship in 2011? With all the media attention Cruz was getting on top of his on the field performance?
More likely some of them were checking out salsa moves as part of their own TD celebrations as players in High School, IMO.
By your logic, then nobody should be practicing right now.
BB56 is right! Apparently many here know nothing about the healing process.
Because OTAs and minicamps are virtually meaningless..He's been out two years and has been improving on the side..Why risk an injury/possible relapse in a meaningless 3 days? Why not wait until camp starts..Very, very stupid imho
Not to get hopes up, but if all 3 guys stay healthy OBJ,Cruz and Shep
This offense could be somewhat reminiscent of the Kurt Warner Ram offenses. Not quite as good per se as Faulk was a beast but the recievers could be right up there with that trio with likely better TEs.
for Victor to return to form all off season. Torn patella sucked, and ruptured achilles after that sucked even more, but I never doubted he could return to form. He may never be the 2011 Victor Cruz, but he has plenty of good football left in him. Plenty enough to be a strong #2 WR behind Beckham. The Giants will have the best sub 6 foot receivers in the game.
'56 just curious if you would give the same advice to a 2nd/3rd tier player trying to make a team? Or if you feel extra cautious because it is a special player like Victor Cruz? Not a knock on you or anything, I've always enjoyed your posts as a positive fan.
for Victor to return to form all off season. Torn patella sucked, and ruptured achilles after that sucked even more, but I never doubted he could return to form. He may never be the 2011 Victor Cruz, but he has plenty of good football left in him. Plenty enough to be a strong #2 WR behind Beckham. The Giants will have the best sub 6 foot receivers in the game.
He never ruptured his achilles...
My hope is that being sidelined an extra year is somehow a
I didn't see this extra posted in the thread. I may have missed it. I think he's cutting very well and I'm not seeing any hesitation from him either. The last part of the video shows me how excited he is to be back out there.
there's come a time (and its now) to stop pussy footing around. He has to put it out there and get all the work now he can. If you keep tippy-toeing or babying an injury (which there are times to do so...not in this case imho) and put it to test. Remember, nowadays, there's less practice time than years past. If he blows the knee (knock on wood) now, then you know he's not getting back. I'm very encouraged imv from those vids as he can get back effectively. This is great news imho.
'56 just curious if you would give the same advice to a 2nd/3rd tier player trying to make a team? Or if you feel extra cautious because it is a special player like Victor Cruz? Not a knock on you or anything, I've always enjoyed your posts as a positive fan.
I would do it across the board. Who it is would not make a difference to me medically..That's not how I practiced
If he can be 80-90% of what he was, this offense could be record-breaking. We'll have to see him do it in games, but this is a great first step. And yeah, sticky-worthy.
RE: Not to get hopes up, but if all 3 guys stay healthy OBJ,Cruz and Shep
This offense could be somewhat reminiscent of the Kurt Warner Ram offenses. Not quite as good per se as Faulk was a beast but the recievers could be right up there with that trio with likely better TEs.
Can we ease up on the hyperbole a little here? Faulk was the most important cog in that entire offense. It's like saying a defense could be so dominant that they mirror the 2000 Ravens except there's no Ray Lewis.
I expect our passing attack to be very good if these 3 guys can play together but we're going to have to get much better at running the football and figure out how to run a 4 minute offense that can close out football games.
RE: Not to get hopes up, but if all 3 guys stay healthy OBJ,Cruz and Shep
This offense could be somewhat reminiscent of the Kurt Warner Ram offenses. Not quite as good per se as Faulk was a beast but the recievers could be right up there with that trio with likely better TEs.
Good lord, please stop. Let's hope this unit is as good as the Nicks, Cruz, Manningham trio while the team still has a huge question at RT, no holes in the running game from the RG, they don't play in-doors on a fast track and no Marshall Faulk.
This place doesn't have a setting between soul-crushing depression
with a new rookie HC with only 2 yrs of coordinator experience, a new Off Co, OL coach, a 30+ year old WR who hasn't played in 2 years, no TE, no FB, a dynamic looking but unproven WR, little depth at WR, a horrid RT and RG penciled in as returning starters why wouldn't they?
Helpful hint: wait and see what comes out of training camp and then make your ridiculous projections.
RE: you could see why some would have the GOAT expectations
with a new rookie HC with only 2 yrs of coordinator experience, a new Off Co, OL coach, a 30+ year old WR who hasn't played in 2 years, no TE, no FB, a dynamic looking but unproven WR, little depth at WR, a horrid RT and RG penciled in as returning starters why wouldn't they?
Helpful hint: wait and see what comes out of training camp and then make your ridiculous projections.
(Drops mic)
Does anyone else think Cruz is somewhat motivated or perhaps perturbed
by, how good Sterling Shepard has looked in practice?
During his post practice interview, he wasn't nearly so effusive about Shepard as OBJ was, and he gave a pretty curt answer to the question (paraphrasing) "do you see a lot of yourself in Sterling Shepard?"
It's a natural enough question to ask, but Victor seemed a lot less garrulous in response to that one than he typically is.
I hope he doesn't push himself too hard because of the raves directed at SS.
RE: you could see why some would have the GOAT expectations
with a new rookie HC with only 2 yrs of coordinator experience, a new Off Co, OL coach, a 30+ year old WR who hasn't played in 2 years, no TE, no FB, a dynamic looking but unproven WR, little depth at WR, a horrid RT and RG penciled in as returning starters why wouldn't they?
Helpful hint: wait and see what comes out of training camp and then make your ridiculous projections.
Drops mic fiddy? The sagacious sarcastic pragmatist is the easiest card to pull from the Tarot Deck of Blatantly Obvious Responses.
RE: RE: you could see why some would have the GOAT expectations
with a new rookie HC with only 2 yrs of coordinator experience, a new Off Co, OL coach, a 30+ year old WR who hasn't played in 2 years, no TE, no FB, a dynamic looking but unproven WR, little depth at WR, a horrid RT and RG penciled in as returning starters why wouldn't they?
Helpful hint: wait and see what comes out of training camp and then make your ridiculous projections.
Drops mic fiddy? The sagacious sarcastic pragmatist is the easiest card to pull from the Tarot Deck of Blatantly Obvious Responses.
But true..:)
RE: RE: Not to get hopes up, but if all 3 guys stay healthy OBJ,Cruz and Shep
This offense could be somewhat reminiscent of the Kurt Warner Ram offenses. Not quite as good per se as Faulk was a beast but the recievers could be right up there with that trio with likely better TEs.
Can we ease up on the hyperbole a little here? Faulk was the most important cog in that entire offense. It's like saying a defense could be so dominant that they mirror the 2000 Ravens except there's no Ray Lewis.
I expect our passing attack to be very good if these 3 guys can play together but we're going to have to get much better at running the football and figure out how to run a 4 minute offense that can close out football games.
And I remember a guy named Pace on that Rams offense, too. Can't think of a single guy anywhere on our line who's in Pace's class.
RE: RE: you could see why some would have the GOAT expectations
with a new rookie HC with only 2 yrs of coordinator experience, a new Off Co, OL coach, a 30+ year old WR who hasn't played in 2 years, no TE, no FB, a dynamic looking but unproven WR, little depth at WR, a horrid RT and RG penciled in as returning starters why wouldn't they?
Helpful hint: wait and see what comes out of training camp and then make your ridiculous projections.
Drops mic fiddy? The sagacious sarcastic pragmatist is the easiest card to pull from the Tarot Deck of Blatantly Obvious Responses.
Also happens top be the truth.
RE: Does anyone else think Cruz is somewhat motivated or perhaps perturbed
by, how good Sterling Shepard has looked in practice?
During his post practice interview, he wasn't nearly so effusive about Shepard as OBJ was, and he gave a pretty curt answer to the question (paraphrasing) "do you see a lot of yourself in Sterling Shepard?"
It's a natural enough question to ask, but Victor seemed a lot less garrulous in response to that one than he typically is.
I hope he doesn't push himself too hard because of the raves directed at SS.
Motivated - yes. Perturbed - no, as Cruz is clearly a team player with everything he has shown thru the years.
Yeah I agree. If he's perturbed at all it's prolly
Is pondering your teams potential. Whether you are glass half full or not, OBJ is has shown he can be one of the best WRs in history of the NFL. Cruz if healthy has had 1500 yd seasons himself. Shepard, many draft gurus felt was one of the most NFL ready receivers this draft and the early results in OTAs have only strengthened that notion. Vareen is a plus receiver out of the backfield and Tye showed he can be a pretty good receving TE.
Eli is a HOF caliber QB finally in a QB friendly system that better displays his talent. Hence his excellent numbers with essentially only OBJ and a cast of role players at WR the last 2 years. We finished 8th in offense and have seemingly improved across the board (except perhaps right side of the OL).
You can argue its still quite uncertain if Cruz returns to form but if he does this offense has a great chance to be awfully good. I choose to be positive and beleive he will.
WR Victor Cruz is taking part in individual drills at camp, running routes and catching passes.
God I want this guy to be great again.
A very stupid move on the Giants part imho...No reason to take that chance.Plenty of time at camp and pre-season to assess..Oh well, c'est la vie
There's one camera angel of Cruz's TD catch in the 2011-12 Super Bowl that more than any spoke to how quick he is for me. He was in the frame, and just like that, he was out of. The camera man literally couldn't keep up.
Because OTAs and minicamps are virtually meaningless..He's been out two years and has been improving on the side..Why risk an injury/possible relapse in a meaningless 3 days? Why not wait until camp starts..Very, very stupid imho
Yes, imo
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Would six more weeks of not practicing really matter that much?
Yes, imo
And now you know why a second opinion is always encouraged.
:)
What can happen now that can't happen in 6 weeks?
It's got to give the entire team a lift - a Victor Cruz lift is just what this team needs
look what it did for the Giants in 2011
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You'll ruin his entire week.
A very stupid move on the Giants part imho...No reason to take that chance.Plenty of time at camp and pre-season to assess..Oh well, c'est la vie
Maybe they aren't taking a chance. There comes a point where if he's healthy, he has to play.
What can happen now that can't happen in 6 weeks?
He can heal up even more. There's always continual healing going on after injury/surgery. Give him 6 more weeks. The internal healing will continue even after 6 more weeks, but he'll be closer to full-go then he is now..
Sheesh, you people unrelentingly call me a homer, say the Giants can do no wrong, well I think they've taken an unnecessary risk here..
Given that expectations on his health must be tempered anyways, I am actually happy he is getting out there a little earlier than TC to acclimate his body.
Jumping right into a full blown training camp seems more aggressive than getting out there running around in shorts, getting used to football motions, even if it's a bit earlier.
Cruz needs reps and needs them badly. He isn't plug and play at this point, he's 2 years removed and needs to start getting after it. 6 more weeks of sitting around will do nothing for him. He's healed, he needs to work with the offense and learn game speed all over again.
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who's been insanely conservative with his reps and rehab, are now letting him go too early? Sooner or later you let the guy play, gain confidence, and get over the mental hurdle. Simply waiting for the last possible second to let him loose can be detrimental to his hopeful comeback.
What can happen now that can't happen in 6 weeks?
He can heal up even more. There's always continual healing going on after injury/surgery. Give him 6 more weeks. The internal healing will continue even after 6 more weeks, but he'll be closer to full-go then he is now..
Sheesh, you people unrelentingly call me a homer, say the Giants can do no wrong, well I think they've taken an unnecessary risk here..
I think you are severely underrating the mentality behind a huge injury. Look at Derrick Rose. Fully healed, never played the same, turning into a jump shooter which isn't what he is good at. Too many guys like that to count.
If the Giants felt he can "heal more" then he wouldn't be out there. He needs to learn to play again.
Cruz needs reps and needs them badly. He isn't plug and play at this point, he's 2 years removed and needs to start getting after it. 6 more weeks of sitting around will do nothing for him. He's healed, he needs to work with the offense and learn game speed all over again.
Except this isn't game speed. There is no contact. It's nowhere near what he will experience during the pre-season games, vanilla O or not..
Obviously, I hope nothing happens and he's fine and probably will be. I just disagree with many here and the Giants..Good thing I'm not the Giants Doc I guess, because even if he was completely "clean" healing-wise, I would advise the Giants to start next month. That it's not worth it..
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athletes fully heal but can't get over the mental aspect. They change their game to compensate, and end up being underwhelming.
Cruz needs reps and needs them badly. He isn't plug and play at this point, he's 2 years removed and needs to start getting after it. 6 more weeks of sitting around will do nothing for him. He's healed, he needs to work with the offense and learn game speed all over again.
Except this isn't game speed. There is no contact. It's nowhere near what he will experience during the pre-season games, vanilla O or not..
Obviously, I hope nothing happens and he's fine and probably will be. I just disagree with many here and the Giants..Good thing I'm not the Giants Doc I guess, because even if he was completely "clean" healing-wise, I would advise the Giants to start next month. That it's not worth it..
Well he isn't just going to be thrown into games. He nees to do drills, put in reps, graduate to non contact drills, etc. It isn't as simple as him just being a full go all of a sudden. He needs to progress his rehab and slowly build up to the next level. If he never starts, how can anyone expect him to just be a full go?
Calling RAZE --- bring out so tatter tots -- there's an explosion brewing
You often chastise other posters for criticizing personnel moves because they are the paid experts and we only have our own unprofessional views, but you are willing to second guess the doctors who examine him every day based on your opinion having never been near the man.
It is a little hypocritical, no?
-- like I said -- it was only an incremental step above working with the trainer on the sideline
You often chastise other posters for criticizing personnel moves because they are the paid experts and we only have our own unprofessional views, but you are willing to second guess the doctors who examine him every day based on your opinion having never been near the man.
It is a little hypocritical, no?
There's a difference. I'm second guessing from my area of expertise. I had decades of experience with healing, lay people or athletes..So even though I haven't a clue as to what his medical records say, I can ONLY GENERALIZE (given that not every case is the same) about what my conservative approach would be..
That is not hypocritical..Other areas I haven't a clue and even generalizing could be problematical..
I hate hate hate when BBI or any fan does that, but I'll give people a break on this one. When a player can't get on the field for 20 months and continues to injure the bread and butter of his success, it's fair to be skeptical if they'll ever return.
Couple that with his pretty hefty contract for a guy who can't currently be counted on, and it also makes you wonder that even if he could get healthy whether or not the Giants would be willing to bet on him.
But I'm happy we are where we are with him. I'm comfortable enough giving him a shot at being our #2 receiver. He's shown what he's capable of.
Jordan Raanan @JordanRaanan 12m12 minutes ago
Victor Cruz did individual drills at #giants minicamp. Working on side w/trainer during team drills
The patella tendon has been ready since last summer. The calf strain has had nearly 8 months to heal. Of the two, the knee is more an issue. Behre has been going full out since April.
All I can say is - Nice.
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but I hope the irony of you second guessing the Giants is not lost on you.
You often chastise other posters for criticizing personnel moves because they are the paid experts and we only have our own unprofessional views, but you are willing to second guess the doctors who examine him every day based on your opinion having never been near the man.
It is a little hypocritical, no?
There's a difference. I'm second guessing from my area of expertise. I had decades of experience with healing, lay people or athletes..So even though I haven't a clue as to what his medical records say, I can ONLY GENERALIZE (given that not every case is the same) about what my conservative approach would be..
That is not hypocritical..Other areas I haven't a clue and even generalizing could be problematical..
No offense man, but this is ridiculous. You're a doctor? OK, even if you are, you've never once examined him or know his current state. That's like a food expert declaring something delicious without having tasted it.
One of the most frustrating losses. We would have won that game if Cruz didn't slip on his cut on the play that got picked and got returned for a TD.
Thankfully it didn't matter because the year ended with us hoisting the trophy.
Cruz was insane that season. So many big plays.
Jordan Raanan @JordanRaanan 12m12 minutes ago
Victor Cruz did individual drills at #giants minicamp. Working on side w/trainer during team drills
Joe, c'mon..My comments were from a GENERALIZED medical perspective, nothing more..I'm not even close to the
edge. Just expressing an opinion and offering reasons as you and others did..We all hope for the same thing. We differ in what we think, as fans, should be a course of action..
You're not alone. Everyone here agrees with you, not me. Still doesn't change my conviction on the timing of this
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One of the most frustrating losses. We would have won that game if Cruz didn't slip on his cut on the play that got picked and got returned for a TD.
Thankfully it didn't matter because the year ended with us hoisting the trophy.
Cruz was insane that season. So many big plays.
I got knocked out of my survivor pool with that game. I'm yet to pick the Giants in one of those and make it out alive.
Glad the Giants gave him the green light here.
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In comment 12993389 Mike from Ohio said:
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but I hope the irony of you second guessing the Giants is not lost on you.
You often chastise other posters for criticizing personnel moves because they are the paid experts and we only have our own unprofessional views, but you are willing to second guess the doctors who examine him every day based on your opinion having never been near the man.
It is a little hypocritical, no?
There's a difference. I'm second guessing from my area of expertise. I had decades of experience with healing, lay people or athletes..So even though I haven't a clue as to what his medical records say, I can ONLY GENERALIZE (given that not every case is the same) about what my conservative approach would be..
That is not hypocritical..Other areas I haven't a clue and even generalizing could be problematical..
No offense man, but this is ridiculous. You're a doctor? OK, even if you are, you've never once examined him or know his current state. That's like a food expert declaring something delicious without having tasted it.
Before you call this ridiculous, re-read what I said..Obviously you failed to comprehend what I said or didn't even bother to read it. I ALREADY addressed the medical records thing and my total lack of knowledge re their content. I was generalizing from my perspective as a retired surgeon and said, my approach, even if his records showed a "clean slate" would be to approach this very conservatively with him and wait until camp..
However, hopefully the surgery he had plus the extra time to get the leg even stronger is a good thing for VC and the Jints.
Patterson - completely agree. I'd rather find out now than in late August........
You mean where you called this decision "Very, very stupid"?
I have no opinion on the matter because I know nothing. Hopefully Cruz can contribute.
Sorry and reapectfully disagree..
Look, it's been a good conversation and many have made salient points. I just have a differing of opinion, timing-wise..
Ok, I've had my say and appreciate the back and forth without anything getting personal..A quiet barroom "fight."
:)
I have no opinion on the matter because I know nothing.
Probably could have started and ended the post right there.
Cruz needs reps and needs them badly. He isn't plug and play at this point, he's 2 years removed and needs to start getting after it. 6 more weeks of sitting around will do nothing for him. He's healed, he needs to work with the offense and learn game speed all over again.
This
Sorry and reapectfully disagree..
Look, it's been a good conversation and many have made salient points. I just have a differing of opinion, timing-wise..
Ok, I've had my say and appreciate the back and forth without anything getting personal..A quiet barroom "fight."
:)
No your position is not wrong, nor is it right. It is just an opinion.
The pitch and catch does a couple things and puts no more stress on the legs than his sideline sessions.
What it does do:
1.) Gives him confidence in the wheels
2.) He starts to get some timing with the QBs
3.) Lets the Giants see him on the field to see if he has developed any bad habits by not running routes for a year
4.) Did I say he gains confidence in the legs...?
Sorry and reapectfully disagree..
Look, it's been a good conversation and many have made salient points. I just have a differing of opinion, timing-wise..
Ok, I've had my say and appreciate the back and forth without anything getting personal..A quiet barroom "fight."
:)
I think it's going to tell you he can at least do that, without repercussions.
I also think you'd want to start this way, instead of going to camp full blast.
If he were to go out and have a setback, when he's deemed ready to do this, the Giants could take a long hard look at turning to Plan B.
Your opinion may be right, or it may be wrong - I have no idea. But it seems strange coming from the champion of "We all have to defer to their judgment since they know more facts than we do!"
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I have no opinion on the matter because I know nothing.
Probably could have started and ended the post right there.
Yep.
Your opinion may be right, or it may be wrong - I have no idea. But it seems strange coming from the champion of "We all have to defer to their judgment since they know more facts than we do!"
In being conservative towards my medical approach vs allowing him to go at this point, I view this as very, very stupid. As I said, if I had access to all his records and I saw that he was really doing well, I STILL would have had him forego any practice(aside from what he was doing to get to this point) for this meaningless 3 day period of pitch and catch..
My medical approach would have been to be ultra conservative for another 6 weeks. Again, even if they showed me 100% of all his records and tests, I still would have kept him out until camp..So yes, I believe this risk, given what he's gone through the last two years of "being ready, no he's not, he's good to go, no he isn't" ping pong, would not be worth it for this 3 day period..
LI NHB : 11:53 am : link : reply
is a bonus for the organization.
Given that expectations on his health must be tempered anyways, I am actually happy he is getting out there a little earlier than TC to acclimate his body.
Jumping right into a full blown training camp seems more aggressive than getting out there running around in shorts, getting used to football motions, even if it's a bit earlier.
I don't think they will run him into the ground at this point but it's uplifting to the Team and himself .
At some point in time he will get hit and hit hard letting him get re-acclimated is just what he needs come camp then full bore rather find out sooner than later
if he is gonna hold up .
Victor has worked hard to gety back here god bless ya ...
if he can get close to where he was good luck stopping this offense .!!
I'm making that up as an example obviously, but the point being made is that having any reaction other than surprise or lack of surprise is silly, let alone being so confident to call it very very stupid.
At some point he had to start pushing things as they go live in less than 2 months.
Now, if this were training camp, I would definitely not hold him out the extra 5-6 weeks until the regular season started. I would absolutely have him go full tilt to see what he does or doesn't have..I think THESE extra 6 weeks would have been good for him. It cannot hurt, imo, especially since he'll have all of camp and pre-season games to prove his mettle..Plenty of time to assess. This is an unnecessary risk imv and I have explained ad nauseum why..
I know we all joke about Giants and their injuries but they still have access to the top medical professionals in the country. If they thought he needed more time he'd be getting it.
I trust the opinion of trained medical professionals when it comes to injuries more than I do professional scouts when it comes to talent evaluation. I wouldn't compare the two as apples to apples.
There's one camera angel of Cruz's TD catch in the 2011-12 Super Bowl that more than any spoke to how quick he is for me. He was in the frame, and just like that, he was out of. The camera man literally couldn't keep up.
Ha, I remember that. It wasn't just the cameraman that couldn't keep up, neither could the DB. That move was just unbelievably quick.
An even near return to form would ultimately be huge for this O..
Peace out unless there's a specific question not touched upon here to date
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but I hope the irony of you second guessing the Giants is not lost on you.
You often chastise other posters for criticizing personnel moves because they are the paid experts and we only have our own unprofessional views, but you are willing to second guess the doctors who examine him every day based on your opinion having never been near the man.
It is a little hypocritical, no?
There's a difference. I'm second guessing from my area of expertise. I had decades of experience with healing, lay people or athletes..So even though I haven't a clue as to what his medical records say, I can ONLY GENERALIZE (given that not every case is the same) about what my conservative approach would be..
That is not hypocritical..Other areas I haven't a clue and even generalizing could be problematical..
BB56, I trust your judgement. Gut feelings based on years of experience is worth a lot.
Of course he is a tested and known quantity as a tatter tot canon as well -- so I like to throw that in from time to time
Big Blue '56 : 1:18 pm : link : reply
I highly respect
You're welcome!
After such an extended layoff he'll need all the reps he can get to find his form.
McAdoo: Was time to take the next step.
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some of the fanbase.
I hate hate hate when BBI or any fan does that, but I'll give people a break on this one. When a player can't get on the field for 20 months and continues to injure the bread and butter of his success, it's fair to be skeptical if they'll ever return.
Couple that with his pretty hefty contract for a guy who can't currently be counted on, and it also makes you wonder that even if he could get healthy whether or not the Giants would be willing to bet on him.
But I'm happy we are where we are with him. I'm comfortable enough giving him a shot at being our #2 receiver. He's shown what he's capable of.
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You'll ruin his entire week.
A very stupid move on the Giants part imho...No reason to take that chance.Plenty of time at camp and pre-season to assess..Oh well, c'est la vie
If he can't hold up and his body folds, wouldn't you like to know sooner rather than later, just my rationale.
Of course he is a tested and known quantity as a tatter tot canon as well -- so I like to throw that in from time to time
No problem with his more experienced opinion. I know '56 is dying for a healthy Cruz and the way we have been teased with is comebacks makes us all gunshy even without '56s medical knowledge. So I can see where he is coming from.
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who's been insanely conservative with his reps and rehab, are now letting him go too early? Sooner or later you let the guy play, gain confidence, and get over the mental hurdle. Simply waiting for the last possible second to let him loose can be detrimental to his hopeful comeback.
What can happen now that can't happen in 6 weeks?
He can heal up even more. There's always continual healing going on after injury/surgery. Give him 6 more weeks. The internal healing will continue even after 6 more weeks, but he'll be closer to full-go then he is now..
Sheesh, you people unrelentingly call me a homer, say the Giants can do no wrong, well I think they've taken an unnecessary risk here..
While it is nice to see him practicing... I do have fear of him getting back too early as well. ( no medical knowledge here tho ). Just fear in gut.
He not only stopped quicker than the guy behind him, he was quicker after the catch. He also seemed to snatch the ball quicker than I remember.
I'm willing to bet it is not a game speed drill.
FWIW
He could also not be going at full speed at this point
Ralph Vacchiano @RVacchianoNYDN 3m3 minutes ago
Odell Beckham says rookie WR Sterling Shepard is "a phenomenal player" and "a steal" who is going "to shock the world."
Of seeing what he has now (because the team has invested so much already). It's cruel but pragmatic - If he's going to break down, better now than later.
From a PURELY medical perspective, Big Blue is probably right, but in this case is a cold mix of business opportunity, money and medical.
I suspect that his knee cap is fully healed after two years and that his freaky calf injury is being looked at in the same light as Berhe's calf (who I believe is doing full speed practicing)
If he does came back strong, the Giants will field the most fearsome passing attack in the NFL.
Cruz may be better with more rest or not. That's the first unknown neither of us has insight into from out here in the bleacher seats.
The second is that the very first team to hAve a wr set back in mini camp calls a Boldin or whomever.
Cruz recovery time table fits within the teams recovery and options
This is not Jerry Rice and the Giants need every improvement to overall talent on the field so there is a limit to patience.
Obviously, imho
Football is a chance.
I am happy to hear he is out there, speaking as a fan who needs and wants to believe in this team once again, I gave up last season. I watched every game, but they were almost unwatchable, so I want plenty of good news, and it seems the Giants have been doing this all off season this year, I welcome all of it.
Hate to see us lose Lewis, Dabble,Poe.
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who's been insanely conservative with his reps and rehab, are now letting him go too early? Sooner or later you let the guy play, gain confidence, and get over the mental hurdle. Simply waiting for the last possible second to let him loose can be detrimental to his hopeful comeback.
What can happen now that can't happen in 6 weeks?
He can heal up even more. There's always continual healing going on after injury/surgery. Give him 6 more weeks. The internal healing will continue even after 6 more weeks, but he'll be closer to full-go then he is now..
Sheesh, you people unrelentingly call me a homer, say the Giants can do no wrong, well I think they've taken an unnecessary risk here..
There is more and more evidence coming out that too much rest is not a good thing. The sooner you can get back to your normal routine the better. So, AP came back too early from his ACL injury?
That is NOT how medicine works..The consideration is, does he have more of a chance of not injuring himself with more healing than he does now? Of course he can hurt himself at ANY time, that's not or shouldn't be the issue. It's about whether or not he will be better off given even more time despite technical clearance or not..Given the relative importance of minicamp vs training with pads and contact, I would have hoped he would have been given more time..
In sum, if I had access to his records and all us Doctors saw the same thing, I would be the nay vote in the room even as I looked at VC as good to go. I would give him more time KNOWING he has plenty of time to get up to speed with Camp and preseason games..
I remember all too well when he was given a clean bill of health from Patella surgery, only to suffer that calf injury(very little doubt from compensating) that shut him down..
But as I said, I was an ultra conservative practitioner as it pertained to healing. I ALWAYS preferred to err on the side of caution..
At some point he had to start pushing things as they go live in less than 2 months.
This^^^^. Man it's almost frightening how much sense Jimmy is making lately.
Fiddy, don't get your point at all about "not risking him" for this 3 day camp. Much moreso agree with the poster above who noted that after 2 years out of FB, the sooner he gets back to participating in regular drills the better. First of all to start shaking off the rust, and secondly to show the kids how it's done right.
With all due respect to OBJ, he isn't yet the vet leader that Cruz is, since VC was a bus driver on a championship squad.
You doubt these youngsters playing WR who are 22 years old now watched (and admired) Victor Cruz and the Giants' run to the SB Championship in 2011? With all the media attention Cruz was getting on top of his on the field performance?
More likely some of them were checking out salsa moves as part of their own TD celebrations as players in High School, IMO.
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By your logic, then nobody should be practicing right now.
BB56 is right! Apparently many here know nothing about the healing process.
Because OTAs and minicamps are virtually meaningless..He's been out two years and has been improving on the side..Why risk an injury/possible relapse in a meaningless 3 days? Why not wait until camp starts..Very, very stupid imho
He never ruptured his achilles...
My hopes are up.
http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Victor-Cruz-takes-big-step-closer-to-return/b83bd71c-5527-496b-9c41-d0ddb5d7f47c - ( New Window )
I would do it across the board. Who it is would not make a difference to me medically..That's not how I practiced
Can we ease up on the hyperbole a little here? Faulk was the most important cog in that entire offense. It's like saying a defense could be so dominant that they mirror the 2000 Ravens except there's no Ray Lewis.
I expect our passing attack to be very good if these 3 guys can play together but we're going to have to get much better at running the football and figure out how to run a 4 minute offense that can close out football games.
Good lord, please stop. Let's hope this unit is as good as the Nicks, Cruz, Manningham trio while the team still has a huge question at RT, no holes in the running game from the RG, they don't play in-doors on a fast track and no Marshall Faulk.
Helpful hint: wait and see what comes out of training camp and then make your ridiculous projections.
Helpful hint: wait and see what comes out of training camp and then make your ridiculous projections.
(Drops mic)
During his post practice interview, he wasn't nearly so effusive about Shepard as OBJ was, and he gave a pretty curt answer to the question (paraphrasing) "do you see a lot of yourself in Sterling Shepard?"
It's a natural enough question to ask, but Victor seemed a lot less garrulous in response to that one than he typically is.
I hope he doesn't push himself too hard because of the raves directed at SS.
Helpful hint: wait and see what comes out of training camp and then make your ridiculous projections.
Drops mic fiddy? The sagacious sarcastic pragmatist is the easiest card to pull from the Tarot Deck of Blatantly Obvious Responses.
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with a new rookie HC with only 2 yrs of coordinator experience, a new Off Co, OL coach, a 30+ year old WR who hasn't played in 2 years, no TE, no FB, a dynamic looking but unproven WR, little depth at WR, a horrid RT and RG penciled in as returning starters why wouldn't they?
Helpful hint: wait and see what comes out of training camp and then make your ridiculous projections.
Drops mic fiddy? The sagacious sarcastic pragmatist is the easiest card to pull from the Tarot Deck of Blatantly Obvious Responses.
But true..:)
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This offense could be somewhat reminiscent of the Kurt Warner Ram offenses. Not quite as good per se as Faulk was a beast but the recievers could be right up there with that trio with likely better TEs.
Can we ease up on the hyperbole a little here? Faulk was the most important cog in that entire offense. It's like saying a defense could be so dominant that they mirror the 2000 Ravens except there's no Ray Lewis.
I expect our passing attack to be very good if these 3 guys can play together but we're going to have to get much better at running the football and figure out how to run a 4 minute offense that can close out football games.
And I remember a guy named Pace on that Rams offense, too. Can't think of a single guy anywhere on our line who's in Pace's class.
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with a new rookie HC with only 2 yrs of coordinator experience, a new Off Co, OL coach, a 30+ year old WR who hasn't played in 2 years, no TE, no FB, a dynamic looking but unproven WR, little depth at WR, a horrid RT and RG penciled in as returning starters why wouldn't they?
Helpful hint: wait and see what comes out of training camp and then make your ridiculous projections.
Drops mic fiddy? The sagacious sarcastic pragmatist is the easiest card to pull from the Tarot Deck of Blatantly Obvious Responses.
Also happens top be the truth.
During his post practice interview, he wasn't nearly so effusive about Shepard as OBJ was, and he gave a pretty curt answer to the question (paraphrasing) "do you see a lot of yourself in Sterling Shepard?"
It's a natural enough question to ask, but Victor seemed a lot less garrulous in response to that one than he typically is.
I hope he doesn't push himself too hard because of the raves directed at SS.
Motivated - yes. Perturbed - no, as Cruz is clearly a team player with everything he has shown thru the years.
Eli is a HOF caliber QB finally in a QB friendly system that better displays his talent. Hence his excellent numbers with essentially only OBJ and a cast of role players at WR the last 2 years. We finished 8th in offense and have seemingly improved across the board (except perhaps right side of the OL).
You can argue its still quite uncertain if Cruz returns to form but if he does this offense has a great chance to be awfully good. I choose to be positive and beleive he will.