Giants’ Ereck Flowers sounds thrilled his old coach is gone

But Flagherty was a pretty successful coach as well.

“It is a good adjustment, in every way,’’ Flowers said of Solari. “All of his techniques and different drills and everything he does. He is a great coach.’’ That's it, that's all Flowers says.

And at the end of the piece, an unknown player says that it was fair that Flowers is happier under the new coach than the old one. I'm not sure where the "thrilled" part comes in.

No story here.....

In comment 12997613 joeinpa said:

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But Flagherty was a pretty successful coach as well.

Was he? Maybe, maybe not. There were a lot of players underperforming under his watch as well as players that never developed. When I hear Richburg say, "What teaching?" when being asked about what happens in the NFL. That was very alarming. He said it is sink or swim in the NFL. If you weren't a starter then very little attention was given to you. Yes, we had some great OLs under his watch but I think that had more to do with the talent and consistency of our OL when we had success. Personally, I am very excited about the change. I love what TC did as a coach and what he has done as a person but his biggest downfall was his unwillingness to change his staff. You always heard him say that they need to improve but it always seemed more geared to the players and talent level. The best thing McAdoo did was evaluate all coaches and do what is best for the team. When I hear McAdoo constantly reference the fact that he wants teachers as coaches that speaks volumes on what we didn't always have here. Times always change and you have to be able to adapt. If not then your time will come much quicker than expected. I thank TC for what he has done but I feel this change needed to happen and, right now, it seems as it it is for the best.

There success or failure is there for all to see. And fairly or unfairly that success is judged by wins and losses, or in the case of an assistant coach, the performance of their unit.

I always felt it was unfair to hold a coach totally responsible for poor performance while at the same time dimissing their success with "he had the talent"

If they are responsible for performance it should be for all performances.
But fans can be very selective in their evaluations.

he was an over rated Giants assistant coach on BBI.

It will be interesting this year if the Giants keep the same 5 OL starters. If the Giants can run the Ball better and protect Eli Better - so that he doesn't have to throw the ball away so much, then that will say a lot about the new OL coach.

Diehl and Seubert were here before him. Mac came from Jets. O'Hara came from Browns. Snee was a Day 1 starter. Maybe give him some credit for Beatty.

Problem was that all those mid round OL prospects never developed. Reese didn't miss on all of them. Flaherty didn't do his job.

And a few others if you think about it

concerned that we weren't making changes on the OL. I kept wondering if the biggest change hasn't already happened with the new coach.

More than any other group, the OL has to function as a unit. The coach also has a role in this regard.

we got rid of Mike Pope. I know a different assistant coach than the thread is all about but to me he was the best TE coach in the game and turned ordinary players into major contributors.

Unless we are there observing a coach it s presumptious to make such a statement. The performance of the Giants offense under Flaggerty doesn't support your premise.

Now is the new guy better, maybe, we shall see

In comment 12997638 Mike fr Warwick said:

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And a few others if you think about it

How are you Mike?

In comment 12997644 EricJ said:

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we got rid of Mike Pope. I know a different assistant coach than the thread is all about but to me he was the best TE coach in the game and turned ordinary players into major contributors.

They kept hiving him garbage and expecting him to turn out results. I think he was fired as collateral damage because the pressure was on the coach.

...a couple of years ago at the request of Pat Kirwan where he graded the o-line during the 2013 week 3 massacre in Charlotte. My recollection was that he could not have been more critical of the players' technique, and was confused himself, saying essentially "I'm not sure what's going on, Flaherty didn't forget how to coach".

I listen to NFL radio quite a bit, and this one really stuck with me.

I realize I'm speculating here, but does anybody think certain coaches did not adapt well to the new CBA and the limited time they have to do their job? Was PF was one of those?

In comment 12997671 Racer said:

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...a couple of years ago at the request of Pat Kirwan where he graded the o-line during the 2013 week 3 massacre in Charlotte. My recollection was that he could not have been more critical of the players' technique, and was confused himself, saying essentially "I'm not sure what's going on, Flaherty didn't forget how to coach". I listen to NFL radio quite a bit, and this one really stuck with me. I realize I'm speculating here, but does anybody think certain coaches did not adapt well to the new CBA and the limited time they have to do their job? Was PF was one of those?

I think even Coughlin himself struggled with that. It's got to be hard for an old school guy to figure out ways to instruct when you are mandated that there can't be any contact.

In comment 12997638 Mike fr Warwick said:

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And a few others if you think about it

Same question as Fiddy. Your presence here has been missed.

continues to mount that Flaherty was simply the beneficiary of having Diehl-Seubert-O'Hara-Snee-McK.

5 self-starters who your uncle Ned could've coached.

Either that, or he simply lost his fastball when they all retired.

besides Boothe???

Many draft picks have come and gone since Boothe with nothing to show for it outside the top 50 picks.

.

Coaching for the Raiders? Who have a good eye for OL coaches and an illustrious OL history


As for Flaherty failing to coach up Brewer, Petrus, and Mosley to name 3, I dunno. But Brewer was just awful and although last I saw he was still in the league, he hasn't started has he?

Mosley I thought was over-rated when I looked at his college tape. For a converted TE,he looked stiff and unathletic as heck with pads on. On top of that as a Giant he was always injured. Is that Flats' fault too?

Whimper also did nothing good under any other coaches' tutelage.

IMO REESE did a lousy job identifying mid & late round OL talent.

I'm no scout, but I wanted that multi-purpose OG from Georgia instead of Jernigan, who now starts for the Bengals and did from maybe even year 1, and I sure as heck wanted Ricky Wagner from Wisconsin when he slipped into round 5.

I liked Terrible Armstead when he came out and the Saints just extended him with a fat contract. Don't recall who we grabbed instead of Armstead, maybe Randle?

.

and I'd agree the old school coaches were perhaps not getting through to the players as the age gap increased, and/or the lack of contact drills and less practice time due to the new CBA contributed to a lack of end results.

Solari is 61 so we better hope it's not a Gen X communication issue.

Everyone has the same practice time allotted and other teams get their guys ready. So it's the talent, the coaching...or both.

But I agree I think Solari was the biggest addition to the coaching staff. He is going to get the best out of every offensive linemen and even though I do not like him I think Jerry will have the best season of his career.

In comment 12997741 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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.

Pethaps prepping Davis in private. Until he's traded, that is

Sometimes you don't like getting pushed. I wonder if he just likes a more player-friendly coach that may or may not get the best out of him.

He is just praising the current coach. Nothing to infer here.

More than most other positions, on the OL you can get by with cohesiveness, smarts and technique. Many of the other positions you can make up for these with athleticism, so I think the lack of development and technique in young players is definitely a fair critique of Flat's tenure here.

I'm going to take Ereck Flowers word for it but Richburg seemed to echo similar sentiments.

it was the coaching, not the players.....

In comment 12997964 Doomster said:

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it was the coaching, not the players.....

It can be both. Many things in football are systemic.

What TTH said. Let's not suddenly give Reese a pass on his terrible drafting for three years by saying the talent was there and PF just didn't have what it took to develop them.

Some individuals can teach, can coach, can communicate their knowledge in ways that work; other individuals are less gifted.

While we can't know how the dynamics played out between PF and the members of the OL under TC, I'm inclined to agree with robbieballs. You have an independent commentary from someone who might be in a position to judge saying Solari is good at what he does. Maybe there's a personal history, an agenda to burnish Solari's reputation.

But then you have EF himself confirming that it's a different experience for him, for the better. This cannot be bad. Let's be happy that, at least for a key starter, this is an improvement over 2015 and a number of underperforming years before.

when we all know life doesn't work that way. Why did Pope get canned? Perhaps for his reaction to the Gilbride firing. It is impossible for us to say for sure. That's why some of the most underrated skills employers need to look for include adaptability and positive outlook.

You can be a hell of a coach, but if you get negative facing change your performance can drop. IMO this likely happened with both Flats and Pope.

And, Shaun O'Hara was an incredibly overrated Center. Did not have much of an anchor, was easily pressed into the pocket. When the Giants played their backup Center, the offense never skipped a beat. In fact, it was better.

these coaches are as good as the players.

Coach IMO. TCs history of loyalty to staff is pretty obvious. He never fired an assistant willingly. Shit. They would have kept Sheridan IMO if he was allowed to. How did the D Torally transform once Lewos got shit canned.

OL was allowed to deteriorate. How much was TC Ana how much was Reese. My guess is both. TC loved Snee and DD for good reason. Warriors who were integral to two SB wins. Reese passing up guys like Glenn and Unger when there was an obvious need.

Giants moved on and while I was in love w the McAdoo Hire I think it was time for a change and the fact that the OL has been atrocious for about 4 years and even almost got Eli killed in the last SB year says change was needed. O was prolific at times w a dearth of talent outside Eli and OBJ. Interested to see how it goes this year.

the new CBA and that he also was losing touch with the millennials. There were a lot of draftees that flew through his window and didn't get anywhere, despite the success he had -- he may have needed a change of scenery -- that happens -- I certainly love the new guy Solari and I hope to god it makes a difference -- it would be spectacular if the Offensive line became a strength -- the FO certainly has sunk resources into it

2nd team all PFF,1st team giants.com,anything.

In comment 12998106 gidiefor said:

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the new CBA and that he also was losing touch with the millennials. There were a lot of draftees that flew through his window and didn't get anywhere, despite the success he had -- he may have needed a change of scenery -- that happens -- I certainly love the new guy Solari and I hope to god it makes a difference -- it would be spectacular if the Offensive line became a strength -- the FO certainly has sunk resources into it

Good points. I think the new CBA really affected Flats and TC. Also think Flats was good with scheme and planning and less on technique. We were always ready for opponents blitzes but lost one on one. The Giants also got in the habit of moving OL all over the place until the very end of camp. That and injuries prevented Flats from doing what he did best - scheme- and forced us to rely on where he was weaker - technique. Just a theory.

Interesting theory. I like your thinking, particularly with how we usually picked up blitzes and recognized fronts okay, but lost one-on-one battles. What about this:

Given the limits of the CBA, TC and Flats had to decide which was more important - technique or strategy, and decided time was best spent on strategy, particularly given that most on the OL were experienced vets.

This slight adjustment to the theory would eliminate the need for Flats to be weak in coaching technique. He may have been very strong at coaching technique but determined that they weren't going to be beat by blitzes, as you described.

different personnel, same coach.

type of player.

Always mentioned Snee, Diehl, O'Hara but said little to nothing about McKenzie, Boothe and Flowers.

No surprise that he put a lot of work into Snee. How would it have turned out for Flaherty if he had put in the same time that he gave Boothe or McKenzie ?

It seemed like they wrote 2014 in Philly as one of those games for the line, only to have it happen again in 2015. As mentioned by other posters no one developed under him unless they were a first or second rounder.

In comment 12998666 tempit said:

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type of player. Always mentioned Snee, Diehl, O'Hara but said little to nothing about McKenzie, Boothe and Flowers. No surprise that he put a lot of work into Snee. How would it have turned out for Flaherty if he had put in the same time that he gave Boothe or McKenzie ?

Jesus, are we just troll central today, or what?

In comment 12997635 Ivan15 said:

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Diehl and Seubert were here before him. Mac came from Jets. O'Hara came from Browns. Snee was a Day 1 starter. Maybe give him some credit for Beatty. Problem was that all those mid round OL prospects never developed. Reese didn't miss on all of them. Flaherty didn't do his job.

I think it is good there is a change at OL, but I cant help but think that the prospects were bad when i read your post. coming to the exact opposite conclusion you did...

None of the guys you mention aside from Mckenzie was highly regarded probowl caliber.

David Deihl ? got a shit ton out of that guy.

Ohara was not a pro bowl center for the browns, not even close and not many thought he would get there.

Seubert gave the giants a hell of a lot for an injured guy.

Snee is just snee so even there.

these kids these days are i swear, they dont know nothing about nothing, i remmeber ball players loved playing for the love of the game and not the money, remember when the Browns were good? Yes thats when I watched football

In comment 12998961 Zebrka said:

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these kids these days are i swear, they dont know nothing about nothing, i remmeber ball players loved playing for the love of the game and not the money, remember when the Browns were good? Yes thats when I watched football

You don't watch football? What are you doing on a football fan site???