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Are the Giants "suddenly very deep at the WR position" ?

gidiefor : Mod : 6/20/2016 11:22 am
Quote:
Sterling Sheppard - The Giants' second round-pick this spring, who could end up being the steal of the draft, according to many. Shepard came right out of the box as advertised, catching "everything in sight" and looking very much like a veteran. The Giants are probably going to rely on Shepard to line up as the No. 2 wideout when the season begins. With Victor Cruz still in comeback mode, the Giants will not have much to worry about with Shepard as their No. 2 behind Odell Beckham, Jr.

WR Geremy Davis -Davis was lightly-used as a rookie last season and that dropped him from the forefront of everyone's minds this spring. Until he hit the field, that is. Davis showed good hands and a firm grip on the offense, making plays and looking quite impressive in the process. He has gained the confidence of head coach Ben McAdoo, OC Mike Sullivan, and QB Eli Manning.

The Giants are suddenly very deep at the WR position.


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how could WR be our biggest weakness?  
djm : 6/20/2016 12:29 pm : link
it wasn't even a weakness last season and the group is probably a lot better this season.
and Shepard isn't really an unknown anymore  
djm : 6/20/2016 12:32 pm : link
coaches know how good a player is when they watch them practice. The NFL might not know much about Shepard but they will soon enough.

It would be one thing if Shepard wasn't making noise thus far but that's not the case. And Cruz is looking good too. It would now come as somewhat of a surprise if either one of Cruz and Shepard failed to produce this season. Throw in the other bodies, including the improving Davis and i'll take my chances with the WRs on this team. We are deep there. Anything can happen from now until September but the same could be said for any team.
RE: Everybody  
Milton : 6/20/2016 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13000868 AcidTest said:
Quote:
(including Shepard) after Beckham and Harris is an unknown.
And Harris is known for his special teams play, not his WR talent. If he wasn't a special teams stand-out, Harris would not make an NFL roster.
I think  
Glover : 6/20/2016 12:34 pm : link
the Giants WRs will be deep, and good depth at that. Beckham one of the best, Cruz WILL return to his form as a tough playmaker, Sheppard is a new Cruz or Beckham. Harris is a sound playmaker with a lot of heart. Davis can be better than Randle. White can be the depth, can make plays on limited snaps and step up should there be a run of injuries. Add in Tye and Donnell, along with Vereen, Jennings and Darkwa catching passes. Things looking up for the G Men's offense. A better RT would be the missing piece to a flat out dominating squad.
If Cruz comes back to even 80% of what he was, I really  
PatersonPlank : 6/20/2016 12:35 pm : link
like out top 5 WR's. Harris and Davis are damn good 4th and 5th guys in this day of the salary cap.
I think for the most part, people are what they are  
Bill L : 6/20/2016 12:37 pm : link
over time the vast majority of late round picks play like late round picks and UDFA's show why they weren't drafted. Obviously, you can point to the odd exception here or there. Shepard might be good; I can't recall what we said about similar early round picks (Thomas Lewis, Brian Alford, etc) at this point in the season and before real games began. Also, it's not at all clear that he fills the hole at the outside opposite OBJ and I see that as a necessity.
If you gave me an over/under on Cruz's regular season games  
Bill L : 6/20/2016 12:39 pm : link
right now, and set it at 2, I would still take the under. When was the last time he has been hit?
RE: I said this before  
BillKo : 6/20/2016 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13000922 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
but this could quite possibly be our best WR corps ever.


Key word there is "possibly".

Nicks, Cruz, and Manningham were big time, big play WRs who did it in crunch time. That was an outstanding trio that is tough to top.

Some of the guys mentioned in this thread.....haven't even produced at the NFL level yet.

Potential yes....but that might not even be realized until a couple years from now.
.  
arcarsenal : 6/20/2016 12:47 pm : link
Too many question marks right now. High ceiling IF Shepard is a hit and contributes year one.. IF Victor can stay on the field.. IF Geremy Davis makes a leap forward..

Odell is the only sure thing here right now.
RE: RE: I said this before  
robbieballs2003 : 6/20/2016 1:04 pm : link
In comment 13000976 BillKo said:
Quote:
In comment 13000922 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


but this could quite possibly be our best WR corps ever.



Key word there is "possibly".

Nicks, Cruz, and Manningham were big time, big play WRs who did it in crunch time. That was an outstanding trio that is tough to top.

Some of the guys mentioned in this thread.....haven't even produced at the NFL level yet.

Potential yes....but that might not even be realized until a couple years from now.


Absolutely. I am also looking at depth too. A lot of potential but having a guy like Harris as your number 4 isn't bad at all. Then you have Geremy Davis who seems to be improving. You also have a high ceiling guy like Roger Lewis who Beckham has complimented.
I agree with pjcas  
jcn56 : 6/20/2016 1:05 pm : link
Throw in a 'could be' in front of that statement and it works for me. Even a 'Looks like the Giants could...' would work.

But for right now, not having seen a single regular season snap or being raw (as is the case with Davis), I don't think you can count on anyone to produce just yet.
Sure they are. They have Beckham and...........................  
Victor in CT : 6/20/2016 1:20 pm : link
a formerly dynamic player (Cruz) who hasn't played for 2 years. A talented but yet to play an NFL down 2nd round draft pick (Shepard), a special teamer and 3 never weres. Yes, they are deep.

Shit I am as excited as anyone to see Shepard play, but he's still a rookie.
Lewis  
eliapple : 6/20/2016 1:21 pm : link
and Dabble will be better than Randle right away.
.  
arcarsenal : 6/20/2016 1:27 pm : link
Never a dull moment with bossman in the fold.
RE: Lewis  
pjcas18 : 6/20/2016 1:28 pm : link
In comment 13001041 eliapple said:
Quote:
and Dabble will be better than Randle right away.


Are you joking?
Sterling  
djstat : 6/20/2016 1:30 pm : link
Can we see him play in pads before we anoint him a steal?
I have to agree with those saying its too early.  
Curtis in VA : 6/20/2016 1:33 pm : link
Too many questions and no pads. Cruz is the big X-factor. His presence makes the unit very strong and his absence makes it very weak.

The other guys have looked impressive but this is the time of year when everyone looks good. Santana Moss looked good. Ramses Barden looked good. Michael Jennings looked good. Tim Carter looked good.

Early reviews are good though. Hopefully its something that continues.
Sinorice, not Santana.  
Curtis in VA : 6/20/2016 1:34 pm : link
.
I like the look of the GMen's WR corp  
MadPlaid : 6/20/2016 1:52 pm : link
Lots of really good potential. But until it is realized, I don't see how you can call this group deep. I feel there is a better than good chance that they will do well this year, so that certainly makes my optimistic side happy. However, I don't want to get ahead of myself and jinx the lot. Once pre-season starts, we will have a better idea of how deep the Giants really are at WR.
RE: Lewis  
81_Great_Dane : 6/20/2016 1:59 pm : link
In comment 13001041 eliapple said:
Quote:
and Dabble will be better than Randle right away.
Unlikely.

Randle was a disappointment, but is well above a replacemnt-level player. He's a starting NFL wideout. He might be the 60th-best receiver in the league, but that's still a starter. (32 teams x 2 starters/team = 64 starters)

Lewis and Dable are long shots to even make the 53-man roster. Dable is old for a rookie, has never played organized football at a high level, or against quality competition. He'd have to be miraculously gifted to be better than Randle "right away." Lewis, well, we'll see. I think he'll be on the practice squad.
At this point I don't get people discounting Shepard.  
BlueLou : 6/20/2016 2:05 pm : link
In 40+ years following the team, there's never been a WR pumped up from Spring practices like him, not even OBJ.

Combine the hype with JR's top 2 round record with WRs drafted since Sinorice Moss - Steve Smith, Nicks, OBJ - and even his 1:3 with Manningham hitting and Jernigan and Barden bad misses, there's plenty of reason to buy in on the SD hype. And we have never seen anything like it before. The 3d round misses had ?S. Jernigan couldn't field a punt cleanly (something he was specifically drafted for) and Barden looked good catching passes in shorts but was noted by TC as being a slow learner and perhaps more interested in updating his Twitter account than learning the playbook. His desire was questioned early on. There's no question about Shepard really... Just stay healthy, man up vs contact, and continue diining what he's done so far.

Getting past Shepard and Harris who's a decent enough 4 there are plenty of ?. But I think that the trio of Lewis, Powe, and Dable have a heckuva upside compared with most rookie UDFAs and Davis has an NFL body and hands, and White - well there must be some reason Mac wanted him and he simply has made plays in shorts, plenty of them. At the least it seems he has Mac's system down pretty well.

If Cruz comes back you gotta like getting the best 2 from Lewis, Davis, White, Powe, and Dable as our 5th and 6th WRs.
RE: At this point I don't get people discounting Shepard.  
pjcas18 : 6/20/2016 2:08 pm : link
In comment 13001126 BlueLou said:
Quote:
In 40+ years following the team, there's never been a WR pumped up from Spring practices like him, not even OBJ.

Combine the hype with JR's top 2 round record with WRs drafted since Sinorice Moss - Steve Smith, Nicks, OBJ - and even his 1:3 with Manningham hitting and Jernigan and Barden bad misses, there's plenty of reason to buy in on the SD hype. And we have never seen anything like it before. The 3d round misses had ?S. Jernigan couldn't field a punt cleanly (something he was specifically drafted for) and Barden looked good catching passes in shorts but was noted by TC as being a slow learner and perhaps more interested in updating his Twitter account than learning the playbook. His desire was questioned early on. There's no question about Shepard really... Just stay healthy, man up vs contact, and continue diining what he's done so far.

Getting past Shepard and Harris who's a decent enough 4 there are plenty of ?. But I think that the trio of Lewis, Powe, and Dable have a heckuva upside compared with most rookie UDFAs and Davis has an NFL body and hands, and White - well there must be some reason Mac wanted him and he simply has made plays in shorts, plenty of them. At the least it seems he has Mac's system down pretty well.

If Cruz comes back you gotta like getting the best 2 from Lewis, Davis, White, Powe, and Dable as our 5th and 6th WRs.


Rookie WR's in general are just tough to predict. Rookie anything is tough to predict, especially after the 1st round. Relying on a contribution from him day 1 is risky. Getting raves in shorts is not anything new. but getting raves in camp would be a better indication and then raves in pre-season games, and I'd be more comfortable.

I'm not suggesting others shouldn't buy into the hype, but for me, I'm just more conservative and I need to see it, on the field, in pads, in a game.
discounting Shepard  
fkap : 6/20/2016 2:16 pm : link
is a mistake.
So is penciling him in as a star, or even a solid.

We have hopes for him. At this point, that's all.
Same for Cruz. we have hopes he returns to form.

OBJ is the only WR that should be counted on at this point.

I've been to this rodeo before: in the preseason we're gushing about the receiving corp. Very, very rarely have we held that same opinion during the regular season.
Are the Giants suddenly very deep at WR?  
81_Great_Dane : 6/20/2016 2:28 pm : link
If:

Their WR corps is healthy, especially Cruz and OBJ; Davis has really improved that much; Shepard is as good as advertised; Harris doesn't have a drop-off; someone emerges from the competition among the prospects and projects -- yes.

That is a lot of ifs, but not as bad as they sound. It really comes down to Cruz and Davis, even more than Shepard.

OBJ is great.
Shepard is a rookie. But very talented. But a rookie.

Cruz was an elite player. Can he be again? Will he be healthy?

Harris is good.

Davis? Has he really improved that much? Ramses Barden killed it in practice, too.

6th WR from among, what, 8 guys? Will emerge from stiff competition and will primarily be a special teamer, ready to step in as needed as guys deal with inevitable physical issues over an NFL season. If he's playing a lot at WR, though, something's wrong.
'suddenly very deep'...  
Torrag : 6/20/2016 2:28 pm : link
...not unless/until both Cruz and Sheppard both prove on the field they will fulfill the hopes the fans and organization have for them.
Nah! Not yet.  
Ivan15 : 6/20/2016 2:45 pm : link
Depth is unproven.

If Cruz doesn't come back strong, there isn't anyone behind Beckham, Shepard and Harris.

Although Davis has improved, he may disappear in pads just like last year.

White hasn't shown anything special. Others are UDFAs.
Shepard is a sure thing  
EMOBJSS2016 : 6/20/2016 2:49 pm : link
His skill set/ talent is so obvious, which will only be enhanced in this system.
as long as Myles White  
NYG007 : 6/20/2016 3:10 pm : link
Doesn't show up on the field, I think were improved over last year. We can't even sniff the words very deep @ WR yet. We were a disaster minus Beckum last year. However, Shep looks insanely legit. We could have two superstar wr's plus a 75% Cruz @ #3. Again, COULD
Yup  
micky : 6/20/2016 3:13 pm : link
Let's jump way ahead of ourselves.
I think the top 2 will be excellent  
JPinstripes : 6/20/2016 4:02 pm : link
OBJ and Shepard will be every bit as productive and dangerous as Nelson and Cobb from GB. Shepard is light years ahead of Cobb with route running coming in as a rookie.

Behind the top 2 are all question marks and/or unknown talents.
all we need is david douglas and we are set for Feb  
GMAN4LIFE : 6/20/2016 4:06 pm : link
.
A rookie and a guy coming off a major injury  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 6/20/2016 4:16 pm : link
"Potentially", this is absolutely a group that could be scary good if Cruz stays healthy and Shepard lives up to the hype.

But too many question marks for me to say "very deep" right now.
'is a sure thing'...  
Torrag : 6/20/2016 4:26 pm : link
...noone is a sure thing.
RE: If you gave me an over/under on Cruz's regular season games  
djm : 6/20/2016 4:39 pm : link
In comment 13000974 Bill L said:
Quote:
right now, and set it at 2, I would still take the under. When was the last time he has been hit?


I'd bump you up to 6 and gladly bet the over. There's risk with Cruz, more than most, but the odds are he does in fact play again and for one simple reason--he's employed and has a pretty big contract. Even with his deal being easy to wiggle out of the Giants are giving Cruz every chance he needs to play. Odds are he'l play.
Yes  
Hot Rod in Florida : 6/20/2016 4:42 pm : link
I think the question posed at this point in time, can best be answered yes. True, we don't know for sure yet, but since the question is being asked now, then you have to estimate (guess).

From the videos and from the coaches interviews, it seems fairly obvious that Shepard's moves remind everyone of Beckham. Until the pads are on, who can say different with anymore surety than those who say no. If the coaches are saying you can't tell the difference between Shepard and Beckham, well... that's a good thing. Isn't it?

Assuming the coaches are correct, then we have 2 Beckham level WRs and a healthy Cruz, which is tentative at this point.

So, what we have here with some level of confidence is similar to Green Bay's situation with Nelson (returning from injury) and with Cobb as the slot. In fact, what we have may be better since Beckham is a sure thing and between Shepard and Cruz we may have 1 or 2 really good slot receivers.

Now add in Harris who ain't bad and the potential of Geremy Davis, or one of the free agents, and we might even have the best WR corps in the entire NFL. Obviously, we don't know that for sure yet, but it does look like that could come true.
imho  
Bill2 : 6/20/2016 5:45 pm : link
Much to be pleased about.

But assume a light to average injury record this year. So assume 5 people lost all year and 5 an average of 4 games:

assume those losses fall to the safety, cb, de and Wr positions.


Most particularly assume one of the top 4 wr misses 10 of 16 games or is sub par given injuries.

Assume Shepard hits a rookie wall and Cruz takes 4 games to hit 85% of what he was.

In sum, we may easily not have a lot of depth at wr
RE: imho  
micky : 6/20/2016 6:24 pm : link
In comment 13001503 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Much to be pleased about.

But assume a light to average injury record this year. So assume 5 people lost all year and 5 an average of 4 games:

assume those losses fall to the safety, cb, de and Wr positions.


Most particularly assume one of the top 4 wr misses 10 of 16 games or is sub par given injuries.

Assume Shepard hits a rookie wall and Cruz takes 4 games to hit 85% of what he was.

In sum, we may easily not have a lot of depth at wr



You know what happens when you "assume"...........
"Very deep"  
OC2.0 : 6/20/2016 7:00 pm : link
Is overstating things, imo. Are things looking up? I'd say most definitely, tbd.
An aside from the WR's is I'm looking for, potentially, big things out of Will Tye.
I go along with Coach Mason...  
Bluesbreaker : 6/20/2016 8:10 pm : link
Cruz is the Key to tilting the scales if he is Close to what he was were looking Very Good .
I think Sheppard will be a nightmare with Cruz Beckham and
the Like's of Davis Powe Lewis White and even King turned
a few Heads .The Potential is there ..
Add to that the TE's and RB's will draw more attention as well .
I am cautiously optimistic  
Rick5 : 6/20/2016 9:03 pm : link
about Shepard, less so about Cruz. We'll see when they play the games. Saying they are "suddenly very deep" doesn't sound like a statement that is at all warranted right now.
If OBJ stays healthy, and SS learns fast,  
CT Charlie : 6/20/2016 11:28 pm : link
we have a good receiving corps but not a deep one - and definitely not a "very deep" one. There's no way that Cruz or anyone else will be better than average NFL-startier level, but if healthy it'll be a solid upgrade over what we had last season.
RE: If OBJ stays healthy, and SS learns fast,  
BlueLou : 6/21/2016 5:28 am : link
In comment 13001870 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
we have a good receiving corps but not a deep one - and definitely not a "very deep" one. There's no way that Cruz or anyone else will be better than average NFL-startier level, but if healthy it'll be a solid upgrade over what we had last season.


Every indication is that Shepard is learning fast and "not making the same mistakes twice."

The keys to being "very deep" are the play of Davis and White, or Lewis learning the system unusually quickly for a rookie. All 3 points are serious question marks. Eli and Beckham pushing Lewis are mild indicators, as is Davis being named a "breakout" Spring player on Giants.com.
RE: Honestly?  
Klaatu : 6/21/2016 6:01 am : link
In comment 13000810 Bill L said:
Quote:
I still haven't backed off much from my opinion that it's still our biggest weakness. I still think Shepard is only a slot and I still think it's as likely that Cruz will be an injury settlement as a contributor. The rest of those guys? Everyone looks good in the spring.


Why is Shepard only a slot WR? Because he's 5-10? Would you say the same thing about Steve Smith (Ravens) or Antonio Brown?
RE: Rather Than Just Focusing On The WR Position  
Klaatu : 6/21/2016 6:08 am : link
In comment 13000857 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
I'd rather look at overall targets for Eli, including TE and RB. IF (always huge on this team) the Giant can stay reasonably healthy, Beckham, Shepard, Tye/Donnell and Vereen/Perkins should give Eli excellent targets without relying on Cruz. Cruz is "gravy/bonus" material IMHO.


Excellent point about the TEs and RBs. I'm looking forward to a fierce battle at both positions this summer, but especially at TE, with Adams, LaCosse, and Malleck fighting for spots.
The Giants  
George : 6/21/2016 6:29 am : link
aren't deep at any position. Haven't been for years. That's why every injury we sustain cuts so badly: we just don't have much of a bench - or, at some positions (LB and OL and FS), much by the way of starters.
Anyway...  
Klaatu : 6/21/2016 6:54 am : link
I think that before you make the claim that the Giants are "very deep" at the WR position, you have to declare just what "very deep" means. Six or seven starting-caliber WRs? That's a lot to ask of any team. Most have a couple of bona fide starters - maybe three - with the rest being role players with varying degrees of competence. In that regard, I'd say the Giants are in decent shape at WR, if not necessarily "very deep."

Odell Beckman, Jr. is an elite WR. Sterling Shepard has the potential to reach that level. If Shepard lives up to his billing, they'll become as formidable a duo as you'll find anywhere else in the league. Of course that still remains to be seen, but the early reviews have been overwhelmingly positive.

Victor Cruz is, of course, a wild card at this point in time. No one knows what to expect from Cruz in 2016. He could flame out very quickly, he could avoid further injury but still never be the same dynamic talent he was in the past, or he could shock the world and become his old salsa-dancing self once again. Only time will tell.

The rest of the WRs who make the final 53 don't necessarily have to "shock the world" to have a positive impact. They just have to make the most of whatever opportunities that come their way. Above all, they have to play smart, avoid mistakes, and gain Eli's trust, especially in critical situations. They can't choke when the money's on the line.

Excluding Beckham, Shepard, Cruz, and Dwayne Harris, there are nine other WRs currently on the roster who will be fighting for two or three spots this summer. I expect that competition will be fierce (as I do for other positions) and, as I and others say over and over again, hopefully the cream will rise to the top.
I prefer to believe  
joeinpa : 6/21/2016 7:55 am : link
Shepherd is not a question mark, qnd that Cruz s injuries are be behind him. Young people do heal from some tough injuries without complication quite often and there is no reason he can t play at a high level again.
I also don t see why a guy like Davis, a draft pick, can t blossom in his second season It s about time this happens again on the Giants.

It's ok to be optimistic. It s not like this franchise doesn t know how to win.

The OP S premise is as valid thoughts presented on BBI
Everyone who was here last year besides ODB  
UberAlias : 6/21/2016 9:04 am : link
Has a lot to prove. The only one who did anything at all, and I stress ANYTHING, is Harris, but I think it's safe to assume we know what he is. If Cruz is healthy and resembles his former self, I would give you they have some depth, but would not go as far as to say very deep. That would be assuming someone like Davis is a guy you can count on, and I'm not prepared to make that leap yet.
WR 2016 NY Giants  
ROBUSTELLI81 : 6/21/2016 10:30 am : link
Whenever have the Giants been this deep at WR? Beckham is the superstar they have never really had, not this dominating/game changer, no matter who or what generation. The Big If? Cruz, if he's back it's a Football Gods gift, but if he' s not there is the Okie Rookie, Sterling strength indeed, seriously gifted WR. Harris in the slot last year was electric, but it's his return game & specials play that really contribute more to the team, good to have him in "reserve", sob to speak. Geremy Davis seems to be stepping up, a big possession WR as go to for Eli on scrambles or the last read on the route tree. UDFA Roger Lewis playing like a keeper, and may the mojo be working for the French rookie Dable, he's a big lad for WR, if he flashes maybe at least the "Taxi Squad."

Best: Beckham / Cruz / Shepard / Davis
Best B: Beckham / Shepard / Lewis / Davis

Best: Beckham, Cruz, Shepard
You want to know what a deep WR group looks like?  
Milton : 6/21/2016 9:05 pm : link
Last year's Packers going into training camp....
Two proven Pro Bowl WR's in Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb and two young early draft picks in Davante Adams (2014 Rnd 2) and Ty Montgomery (2015 Rnd 3). And as deep as they were, by the end of camp they were desperate to add James Jones.
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