Are the Giants "suddenly very deep at the WR position" ?

But there is a lot of unproven talent and we still don't know what to expect from Cruz

There are a lot of "ifs" that need to be addressed in training camp and pre-season.

we've upgraded our WR groups to (potentially) unprecedented levels. If SS pans out, we will have had some amazing high picks recently.

I still haven't backed off much from my opinion that it's still our biggest weakness. I still think Shepard is only a slot and I still think it's as likely that Cruz will be an injury settlement as a contributor. The rest of those guys? Everyone looks good in the spring.

but I disagree the Giants are "very deep" at WR.

Beckham and a bunch of question marks isn't "very deep". Cruz has to be on the field, Shepard has to contribute, and then I think it's a good group, but after that, what proven depth is there?

Harris is a KR/PR who sometimes plays WR, and no one else has an NFL snap at the position other than mop duties by Myles White (16 career catches) and Geremy Davis (2 career catches)

So much hinges on Cruz and Shepard I hesitate to say "suddenly very deep".

I'd prefer "could be good" at WR.

let's see.

No idea what happens with Cruz.

Shepard hasn't played a down in the NFL.

but... the Giants are deep at WR

If he is close to the old Cruz we will have 2 legit threats in OBJ and Cruz with a third emerging one in Shepard (who may play to the level of a strong #2 very early on).

I also believe Davis or Roger Lewis have a solid chance to become potent receiving options better than anything we had last year outside of OBJ.

This group is a very exciting one to keep an eye on to see how quickly they develop and what their ceiling is.

but even without him Beckham and Sheppard are an exciting looking duo -- and if Geremy Davis, Darius Powe and Roger Lewis are lighting it up in camp and then you have Dwayne Harris -- the WR corps is looking spectacular -- then maybe add in Cruz and you are suddenly very deep at WR

Could they be really good? Sure. But how do you say a rookie, a guy with no experience, and a veteran coming off two lost seasons make you 'deep' at a position.

The Giants have a lot of potential at WR. They are not deep.

I'd rather look at overall targets for Eli, including TE and RB. IF (always huge on this team) the Giant can stay reasonably healthy, Beckham, Shepard, Tye/Donnell and Vereen/Perkins should give Eli excellent targets without relying on Cruz. Cruz is "gravy/bonus" material IMHO.

(including Shepard) after Beckham and Harris is an unknown.

No they are not.

but this could quite possibly be our best WR corps ever.

it wasn't even a weakness last season and the group is probably a lot better this season.

coaches know how good a player is when they watch them practice. The NFL might not know much about Shepard but they will soon enough.

It would be one thing if Shepard wasn't making noise thus far but that's not the case. And Cruz is looking good too. It would now come as somewhat of a surprise if either one of Cruz and Shepard failed to produce this season. Throw in the other bodies, including the improving Davis and i'll take my chances with the WRs on this team. We are deep there. Anything can happen from now until September but the same could be said for any team.

In comment 13000868 AcidTest said:

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(including Shepard) after Beckham and Harris is an unknown.

And Harris is known for his special teams play, not his WR talent. If he wasn't a special teams stand-out, Harris would not make an NFL roster.

the Giants WRs will be deep, and good depth at that. Beckham one of the best, Cruz WILL return to his form as a tough playmaker, Sheppard is a new Cruz or Beckham. Harris is a sound playmaker with a lot of heart. Davis can be better than Randle. White can be the depth, can make plays on limited snaps and step up should there be a run of injuries. Add in Tye and Donnell, along with Vereen, Jennings and Darkwa catching passes. Things looking up for the G Men's offense. A better RT would be the missing piece to a flat out dominating squad.

like out top 5 WR's. Harris and Davis are damn good 4th and 5th guys in this day of the salary cap.

over time the vast majority of late round picks play like late round picks and UDFA's show why they weren't drafted. Obviously, you can point to the odd exception here or there. Shepard might be good; I can't recall what we said about similar early round picks (Thomas Lewis, Brian Alford, etc) at this point in the season and before real games began. Also, it's not at all clear that he fills the hole at the outside opposite OBJ and I see that as a necessity.

right now, and set it at 2, I would still take the under. When was the last time he has been hit?

In comment 13000922 robbieballs2003 said:

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but this could quite possibly be our best WR corps ever.

Key word there is "possibly".

Nicks, Cruz, and Manningham were big time, big play WRs who did it in crunch time. That was an outstanding trio that is tough to top.

Some of the guys mentioned in this thread.....haven't even produced at the NFL level yet.

Potential yes....but that might not even be realized until a couple years from now.

Too many question marks right now. High ceiling IF Shepard is a hit and contributes year one.. IF Victor can stay on the field.. IF Geremy Davis makes a leap forward..

Odell is the only sure thing here right now.

In comment 13000976 BillKo said:

Quote:

In comment 13000922 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: but this could quite possibly be our best WR corps ever. Key word there is "possibly". Nicks, Cruz, and Manningham were big time, big play WRs who did it in crunch time. That was an outstanding trio that is tough to top. Some of the guys mentioned in this thread.....haven't even produced at the NFL level yet. Potential yes....but that might not even be realized until a couple years from now.

Absolutely. I am also looking at depth too. A lot of potential but having a guy like Harris as your number 4 isn't bad at all. Then you have Geremy Davis who seems to be improving. You also have a high ceiling guy like Roger Lewis who Beckham has complimented.

Throw in a 'could be' in front of that statement and it works for me. Even a 'Looks like the Giants could...' would work.

But for right now, not having seen a single regular season snap or being raw (as is the case with Davis), I don't think you can count on anyone to produce just yet.

a formerly dynamic player (Cruz) who hasn't played for 2 years. A talented but yet to play an NFL down 2nd round draft pick (Shepard), a special teamer and 3 never weres. Yes, they are deep.

Shit I am as excited as anyone to see Shepard play, but he's still a rookie.

and Dabble will be better than Randle right away.

Never a dull moment with bossman in the fold.

In comment 13001041 eliapple said:

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and Dabble will be better than Randle right away.

Are you joking?

Can we see him play in pads before we anoint him a steal?

Too many questions and no pads. Cruz is the big X-factor. His presence makes the unit very strong and his absence makes it very weak.

The other guys have looked impressive but this is the time of year when everyone looks good. Santana Moss looked good. Ramses Barden looked good. Michael Jennings looked good. Tim Carter looked good.

Early reviews are good though. Hopefully its something that continues.

.

Lots of really good potential. But until it is realized, I don't see how you can call this group deep. I feel there is a better than good chance that they will do well this year, so that certainly makes my optimistic side happy. However, I don't want to get ahead of myself and jinx the lot. Once pre-season starts, we will have a better idea of how deep the Giants really are at WR.

In comment 13001041 eliapple said:

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and Dabble will be better than Randle right away.

Unlikely.

Randle was a disappointment, but is well above a replacemnt-level player. He's a starting NFL wideout. He might be the 60th-best receiver in the league, but that's still a starter. (32 teams x 2 starters/team = 64 starters)

Lewis and Dable are long shots to even make the 53-man roster. Dable is old for a rookie, has never played organized football at a high level, or against quality competition. He'd have to be miraculously gifted to be better than Randle "right away." Lewis, well, we'll see. I think he'll be on the practice squad.

In 40+ years following the team, there's never been a WR pumped up from Spring practices like him, not even OBJ.

Combine the hype with JR's top 2 round record with WRs drafted since Sinorice Moss - Steve Smith, Nicks, OBJ - and even his 1:3 with Manningham hitting and Jernigan and Barden bad misses, there's plenty of reason to buy in on the SD hype. And we have never seen anything like it before. The 3d round misses had ?S. Jernigan couldn't field a punt cleanly (something he was specifically drafted for) and Barden looked good catching passes in shorts but was noted by TC as being a slow learner and perhaps more interested in updating his Twitter account than learning the playbook. His desire was questioned early on. There's no question about Shepard really... Just stay healthy, man up vs contact, and continue diining what he's done so far.

Getting past Shepard and Harris who's a decent enough 4 there are plenty of ?. But I think that the trio of Lewis, Powe, and Dable have a heckuva upside compared with most rookie UDFAs and Davis has an NFL body and hands, and White - well there must be some reason Mac wanted him and he simply has made plays in shorts, plenty of them. At the least it seems he has Mac's system down pretty well.

If Cruz comes back you gotta like getting the best 2 from Lewis, Davis, White, Powe, and Dable as our 5th and 6th WRs.

In comment 13001126 BlueLou said:

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In 40+ years following the team, there's never been a WR pumped up from Spring practices like him, not even OBJ. Combine the hype with JR's top 2 round record with WRs drafted since Sinorice Moss - Steve Smith, Nicks, OBJ - and even his 1:3 with Manningham hitting and Jernigan and Barden bad misses, there's plenty of reason to buy in on the SD hype. And we have never seen anything like it before. The 3d round misses had ?S. Jernigan couldn't field a punt cleanly (something he was specifically drafted for) and Barden looked good catching passes in shorts but was noted by TC as being a slow learner and perhaps more interested in updating his Twitter account than learning the playbook. His desire was questioned early on. There's no question about Shepard really... Just stay healthy, man up vs contact, and continue diining what he's done so far. Getting past Shepard and Harris who's a decent enough 4 there are plenty of ?. But I think that the trio of Lewis, Powe, and Dable have a heckuva upside compared with most rookie UDFAs and Davis has an NFL body and hands, and White - well there must be some reason Mac wanted him and he simply has made plays in shorts, plenty of them. At the least it seems he has Mac's system down pretty well. If Cruz comes back you gotta like getting the best 2 from Lewis, Davis, White, Powe, and Dable as our 5th and 6th WRs.

Rookie WR's in general are just tough to predict. Rookie anything is tough to predict, especially after the 1st round. Relying on a contribution from him day 1 is risky. Getting raves in shorts is not anything new. but getting raves in camp would be a better indication and then raves in pre-season games, and I'd be more comfortable.

I'm not suggesting others shouldn't buy into the hype, but for me, I'm just more conservative and I need to see it, on the field, in pads, in a game.

is a mistake.
So is penciling him in as a star, or even a solid.

We have hopes for him. At this point, that's all.
Same for Cruz. we have hopes he returns to form.

OBJ is the only WR that should be counted on at this point.

I've been to this rodeo before: in the preseason we're gushing about the receiving corp. Very, very rarely have we held that same opinion during the regular season.

If:

Their WR corps is healthy, especially Cruz and OBJ; Davis has really improved that much; Shepard is as good as advertised; Harris doesn't have a drop-off; someone emerges from the competition among the prospects and projects -- yes.

That is a lot of ifs, but not as bad as they sound. It really comes down to Cruz and Davis, even more than Shepard.

OBJ is great.
Shepard is a rookie. But very talented. But a rookie.

Cruz was an elite player. Can he be again? Will he be healthy?

Harris is good.

Davis? Has he really improved that much? Ramses Barden killed it in practice, too.

6th WR from among, what, 8 guys? Will emerge from stiff competition and will primarily be a special teamer, ready to step in as needed as guys deal with inevitable physical issues over an NFL season. If he's playing a lot at WR, though, something's wrong.

...not unless/until both Cruz and Sheppard both prove on the field they will fulfill the hopes the fans and organization have for them.

Depth is unproven.

If Cruz doesn't come back strong, there isn't anyone behind Beckham, Shepard and Harris.

Although Davis has improved, he may disappear in pads just like last year.

White hasn't shown anything special. Others are UDFAs.

His skill set/ talent is so obvious, which will only be enhanced in this system.

Doesn't show up on the field, I think were improved over last year. We can't even sniff the words very deep @ WR yet. We were a disaster minus Beckum last year. However, Shep looks insanely legit. We could have two superstar wr's plus a 75% Cruz @ #3. Again, COULD

Let's jump way ahead of ourselves.

OBJ and Shepard will be every bit as productive and dangerous as Nelson and Cobb from GB. Shepard is light years ahead of Cobb with route running coming in as a rookie.

Behind the top 2 are all question marks and/or unknown talents.

.

"Potentially", this is absolutely a group that could be scary good if Cruz stays healthy and Shepard lives up to the hype.

But too many question marks for me to say "very deep" right now.

...noone is a sure thing.

In comment 13000974 Bill L said:

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right now, and set it at 2, I would still take the under. When was the last time he has been hit?

I'd bump you up to 6 and gladly bet the over. There's risk with Cruz, more than most, but the odds are he does in fact play again and for one simple reason--he's employed and has a pretty big contract. Even with his deal being easy to wiggle out of the Giants are giving Cruz every chance he needs to play. Odds are he'l play.

I think the question posed at this point in time, can best be answered yes. True, we don't know for sure yet, but since the question is being asked now, then you have to estimate (guess).

From the videos and from the coaches interviews, it seems fairly obvious that Shepard's moves remind everyone of Beckham. Until the pads are on, who can say different with anymore surety than those who say no. If the coaches are saying you can't tell the difference between Shepard and Beckham, well... that's a good thing. Isn't it?

Assuming the coaches are correct, then we have 2 Beckham level WRs and a healthy Cruz, which is tentative at this point.

So, what we have here with some level of confidence is similar to Green Bay's situation with Nelson (returning from injury) and with Cobb as the slot. In fact, what we have may be better since Beckham is a sure thing and between Shepard and Cruz we may have 1 or 2 really good slot receivers.

Now add in Harris who ain't bad and the potential of Geremy Davis, or one of the free agents, and we might even have the best WR corps in the entire NFL. Obviously, we don't know that for sure yet, but it does look like that could come true.

Much to be pleased about.

But assume a light to average injury record this year. So assume 5 people lost all year and 5 an average of 4 games:

assume those losses fall to the safety, cb, de and Wr positions.


Most particularly assume one of the top 4 wr misses 10 of 16 games or is sub par given injuries.

Assume Shepard hits a rookie wall and Cruz takes 4 games to hit 85% of what he was.

In sum, we may easily not have a lot of depth at wr

In comment 13001503 Bill2 said:

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Much to be pleased about. But assume a light to average injury record this year. So assume 5 people lost all year and 5 an average of 4 games: assume those losses fall to the safety, cb, de and Wr positions. Most particularly assume one of the top 4 wr misses 10 of 16 games or is sub par given injuries. Assume Shepard hits a rookie wall and Cruz takes 4 games to hit 85% of what he was. In sum, we may easily not have a lot of depth at wr

You know what happens when you "assume"...........