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NFT: Knicks/Draft Day Talk 6/23

Jon in NYC : 6/23/2016 7:33 am
Right now Knicks currently on the roster:

C. Kyle O'Quinn
Pf. Kristaps
Sf. Melo
Sg. Gallo (Qualifying Offer), Justin Holiday
Pg. Derrick Rose

That's it. 9 holes to fill, about 26 mil in cap space and as of right now 0 draft picks to work with.

That said, pretty much everyone is trying to move out of this draft. It sounds like we'll be able to get at least one second, with an outside shot of maybe buying a first.
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Baker  
colin : 6/24/2016 1:00 am : link
Can shoot.
Lonk - ( New Window )
RE: Baker  
Del Shofner : 6/24/2016 1:07 am : link
In comment 13007135 colin said:
Quote:
Can shoot. Lonk - ( New Window )


reading up on Baker, he seems to be somewhat in the mold that Hornacek was as a player - relatively tall combo guard who can shoot and defend.
"Ron Baker the 3pt. Maker"  
Canton : 6/24/2016 8:02 am : link
He shoots them from way down town. Looks like he prepared himself for the NBA, from where he was launching them.
RE: RE: Baker  
Deej : 6/24/2016 8:35 am : link
In comment 13007137 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
In comment 13007135 colin said:


Quote:


Can shoot. Lonk - ( New Window )



reading up on Baker, he seems to be somewhat in the mold that Hornacek was as a player - relatively tall combo guard who can shoot and defend.


But isnt very good at either. Also there are some reasons to believe he'll struggle defensively against NBA athletes -- he's got a lateral quickness knock.

Im glad to sign guys, and would sign more. But there is a reason he was undrafted in a draft where it seems now one wanted any of the players taken after the lottery.
Aside from the Durant ESPN screenshot, a pretty damn  
Heisenberg : 6/24/2016 8:39 am : link
underwhelming night.

Baker looks interesting and has some range to his game. But, whatever.
6'4 220 sounds like too big to play PG  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/24/2016 8:40 am : link
Put him in the mix for Safety for the Giants.
I  
DanMetroMan : 6/24/2016 9:03 am : link
do like Gary Payton II. He is athletic and can defend. He actually reminds me a bit of Fisher.
Joakim noah was in new York with Derrick rose last night  
nygiants16 : 6/24/2016 9:11 am : link
I think it's a lock he signs with new york...hopefully signs for enough to make him happy but less enough so knicks still have the max
RE: Joakim noah was in new York with Derrick rose last night  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/24/2016 9:13 am : link
In comment 13007340 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
I think it's a lock he signs with new york...hopefully signs for enough to make him happy but less enough so knicks still have the max


I want Noah before Pau, but Noah might want quite a bit of cash. I just feel like Pau is very, very close to finished.
.  
arcarsenal : 6/24/2016 9:20 am : link
Could we feasibly land Noah and still have room for KD? I don't even bother trying to get knee deep in the NBA cap stuff, it makes my fucking head spin.
RE: .  
Jon in NYC : 6/24/2016 9:27 am : link
In comment 13007362 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Could we feasibly land Noah and still have room for KD? I don't even bother trying to get knee deep in the NBA cap stuff, it makes my fucking head spin.


Assuming Noah is in the 8-12M range, yes.
.  
arcarsenal : 6/24/2016 9:30 am : link
Thanks, Bosh.
RE: So right now  
Enzo : 6/24/2016 9:34 am : link
In comment 13007134 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
we have Melo, KP, Rose, Holiday and O'Quinn under contract, and you can probably throw in Hernangomez. Phil said tonight that he expects to be able to re-sign Lance and Langston. Should be some spots available for Ron Baker and some other Summer Leaguers. We have a LONG way to go.

the back end of this roster is going to be a tire fire.
RE: RE: .  
Heisenberg : 6/24/2016 9:34 am : link
In comment 13007373 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13007362 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Could we feasibly land Noah and still have room for KD? I don't even bother trying to get knee deep in the NBA cap stuff, it makes my fucking head spin.



Assuming Noah is in the 8-12M range, yes.


Noah's gonna take less than RoLo?
RE: .  
Jon in NYC : 6/24/2016 9:35 am : link
In comment 13007381 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Thanks, Bosh.


RE: RE: RE: .  
Jon in NYC : 6/24/2016 9:36 am : link
In comment 13007391 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 13007373 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 13007362 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Could we feasibly land Noah and still have room for KD? I don't even bother trying to get knee deep in the NBA cap stuff, it makes my fucking head spin.



Assuming Noah is in the 8-12M range, yes.



Noah's gonna take less than RoLo?


Older, more injury prone, hometown discount.
RE: RE: Joakim noah was in new York with Derrick rose last night  
giantsfan44ab : 6/24/2016 9:37 am : link
In comment 13007342 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13007340 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


I think it's a lock he signs with new york...hopefully signs for enough to make him happy but less enough so knicks still have the max



I want Noah before Pau, but Noah might want quite a bit of cash. I just feel like Pau is very, very close to finished.


Same here, would rather keep the defense strong.
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
Heisenberg : 6/24/2016 9:40 am : link
In comment 13007399 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13007391 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


In comment 13007373 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 13007362 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Could we feasibly land Noah and still have room for KD? I don't even bother trying to get knee deep in the NBA cap stuff, it makes my fucking head spin.



Assuming Noah is in the 8-12M range, yes.



Noah's gonna take less than RoLo?



Older, more injury prone, hometown discount.


First two, yes. The last? maybe not - hometown discounts aren't super common. Given KP, Rose and Melo, Noah is the perfect type of player for Center.
one thing about Noah  
Enzo : 6/24/2016 9:40 am : link
is that he's never really cashed in on a big nba contract, whereas Gasol was maxed two times.
RE: RE: .  
Shecky : 6/24/2016 9:41 am : link
In comment 13007396 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13007381 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Thanks, Bosh.





That gif cracks me up. Not so much for Bosh,but it reminded me thatLeBron used to wear that headband ALL the time. And denied he had plugs. Suddenly. Hairlines back, but the headband isn't.
I agree,  
Jon in NYC : 6/24/2016 9:42 am : link
the hometown discount is a stretch. But Noah is on the back 9 of his career, and the injuries are a very real issue.
RE: The Kniicks probably acted  
Enzo : 6/24/2016 9:43 am : link
In comment 13007125 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
Rationally. There are a lot of UDFA's who are likely as good or bad as 45 of the ones who were just drafted.

WTF? You get a certain amount of cash to include each year in trades. After the league year is up, that money is gone and you start over the next "year" - which is next week. Not buying a pick last night doesn't make any sense.
RE: I agree,  
Enzo : 6/24/2016 9:44 am : link
In comment 13007410 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
Noah is on the back 9 of his career, and the injuries are a very real issue.

those are reasons for him to look to get paid as much as possible.
RE: RE: The Kniicks probably acted  
Heisenberg : 6/24/2016 9:45 am : link
In comment 13007415 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 13007125 Phil in LA said:


Quote:


Rationally. There are a lot of UDFA's who are likely as good or bad as 45 of the ones who were just drafted.


WTF? You get a certain amount of cash to include each year in trades. After the league year is up, that money is gone and you start over the next "year" - which is next week. Not buying a pick last night doesn't make any sense.


Only if it's not YOUR 3 million dollars.
I can't see Noah getting a big deal north  
Italianju : 6/24/2016 9:45 am : link
Of 10 mill. He is just too injury prone to give a big deal to. I think the Knicks can get in the ball park of what others are offering and then hopefully with rose, Melo, and it being his hometown it's enough. A healthy Noah and KP is a very strong defensive front court.
RE: RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 6/24/2016 9:48 am : link
In comment 13007408 Shecky said:
Quote:
In comment 13007396 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 13007381 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Thanks, Bosh.







That gif cracks me up. Not so much for Bosh,but it reminded me thatLeBron used to wear that headband ALL the time. And denied he had plugs. Suddenly. Hairlines back, but the headband isn't.


Haha, well he did wear the headband from when he first came into the league and still had his OG hair. Then it started creeping up as his hair line started running away from his forehead and it got silly.
The fact that Noah is so close to rose  
nygiants16 : 6/24/2016 9:49 am : link
Friends with Melo, always wanted to play for knicks, have to hop he takes a deal in the 8-12 range if not, not worth it in my opinion
RE: RE: I agree,  
Jon in NYC : 6/24/2016 9:50 am : link
In comment 13007420 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 13007410 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


Noah is on the back 9 of his career, and the injuries are a very real issue.


those are reasons for him to look to get paid as much as possible.


*breaking* NBA player wants to make as much money as possible. Alert the presses!

The reasons listed are reasons why teams wont offer him as much.

P.S. I really admire the commitment you've made to the heel turn on BBI Knick threads. You're like our NWO Hulk Hogan.
.  
DanMetroMan : 6/24/2016 9:51 am : link
The Minnesota Timberwolves tried to trade Kris Dunn after selecting him with the fifth pick of Thursdays NBA draft, but their trade offer for Jimmy Butler was rejected by the Bulls, ESPNs Marc Stein reports.

The Bulls, who picked 14th in the draft order, were reportedly very interested in Dunn, but their interest was not enough to entice them to part with their two-time All-Star guard after just trading former MVP Derrick Rose to the Knicks on Wednesday.

Stein reports the deal failed after original optimism it would be completed, but Bulls general manager Gar Forman denied the reports entirely.
What about shooting guard?  
Heisenberg : 6/24/2016 9:51 am : link
Is there a BBI consensus on what the best targets are? I would think Oladipo to OKC means Fournier will be difficult to pry loose from ORL.
RE: I can't see Noah getting a big deal north  
Enzo : 6/24/2016 9:51 am : link
In comment 13007429 Italianju said:
Quote:
Of 10 mill. He is just too injury prone to give a big deal to. I think the Knicks can get in the ball park of what others are offering and then hopefully with rose, Melo, and it being his hometown it's enough. A healthy Noah and KP is a very strong defensive front court.

that all makes sense - unless you have a team that just created a big hole at center, is desperate to contend, and has two amateurs running the front office. Then maybe he might get a really big offer - or at least more than what we all think would be a fair deal. Just a hunch! Hope I'm wrong....
.  
arcarsenal : 6/24/2016 9:54 am : link
I'd want to add the best defensive 2 we could reasonably get a hold of. I wouldn't be worried so much about scoring from that spot with the way the team is coming together.
RE: RE: RE: I agree,  
Enzo : 6/24/2016 9:56 am : link
In comment 13007441 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13007420 Enzo said:


Quote:


In comment 13007410 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


Noah is on the back 9 of his career, and the injuries are a very real issue.


those are reasons for him to look to get paid as much as possible.



*breaking* NBA player wants to make as much money as possible. Alert the presses!

But there ARE times when players don't though. Noah doesn't fit that profile.
Quote:
The reasons listed are reasons why teams wont offer him as much.

teams that traditionally don't overpay in contracts or trades might not offer him as much. What kind of team are the Knicks?
Quote:
P.S. I really admire the commitment you've made to the heel turn on BBI Knick threads. You're like our NWO Hulk Hogan.

this is nowhere close to a full heel turn. I'm just teasing it at this point. Wait until we sign Howard or some other bum for big money...
RE: What about shooting guard?  
Jon in NYC : 6/24/2016 9:58 am : link
In comment 13007446 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
Is there a BBI consensus on what the best targets are? I would think Oladipo to OKC means Fournier will be difficult to pry loose from ORL.


Great question, and unfortunately one without an obvious answer.

I fear that Phil is going to go after Evan Turner, which would be a terrible move.

I would honestly okay adding someone very cheap like Brandon Rush and rolling with a Galloway/Holiday/Rush trio for this season so we maintain flexibility moving forward.
calling Phil Jackson an amatuer  
Shirk130 : 6/24/2016 10:01 am : link
is so stupid it's hilarious. How many rings does one have to win to gain some credibility. He knows more about the game than anyone on this board, and still takes so much shit. Just look at the state of the team today compared to where we were when he signed on, it's 180 degree turn. Knicks are on the right track, being run by a real grownup. As a season ticket holder, I'm thrilled with where we are headed.
I also  
Jon in NYC : 6/24/2016 10:08 am : link
like the Ron Barker add. He can shoot, defend, doesn't turn the ball over, handle it a little bit. If his skills translate to the NBA, he can be useful.
If somehow Durant signs here  
Deej : 6/24/2016 10:09 am : link
I could see Noah taking the remainder here on a 1+1 deal. Recover value and hit the big market again as a UFA in a $110 million cap season, with some downside protection with the option in case of injury. It all depends on whether someone else is willing to throw more than 3 years at him, but I kind of doubt that.

I think Noah is a good bet. I'd love to see him sign here.
RE: calling Phil Jackson an amatuer  
Enzo : 6/24/2016 10:10 am : link
In comment 13007480 Shirk130 said:
Quote:
is so stupid it's hilarious. How many rings does one have to win to gain some credibility. He knows more about the game than anyone on this board, and still takes so much shit. Just look at the state of the team today compared to where we were when he signed on, it's 180 degree turn. Knicks are on the right track, being run by a real grownup. As a season ticket holder, I'm thrilled with where we are headed.

knowing the game of basketball and operating in a front office capacity are two very different things. He is most certainly an amateur when it comes to the latter. He's been proving it on nearly trade/signing he's made.

For shooting guard it depends what their big get is  
nygiants16 : 6/24/2016 10:11 am : link
For all we know Batum is going to be signed or Derozan which I doubt...

I think the best for at SG if you can't get either of those guys is a 3 and d guy, the shooting guard on this team needs to knock down shots because the pick and roll is going to be deadly you need a floor spacer to keep the paint open
Isn't Crawford a FA? I know he's old, but the guy can shoot.  
yatqb : 6/24/2016 10:13 am : link
He might be a nice stopgap at SG.
RE: Isn't Crawford a FA? I know he's old, but the guy can shoot.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/24/2016 10:39 am : link
In comment 13007509 yatqb said:
Quote:
He might be a nice stopgap at SG.


He really isn't a starter. He and Galloway are very, very similar in shooting percentage wise, based off last season.
Unless  
DanMetroMan : 6/24/2016 10:40 am : link
Derozan has some unknown love of NYC I can't envision/cultivate a scenario in which he ends up a Knick.
.  
arcarsenal : 6/24/2016 10:43 am : link
Would love Crawford back but he'd come off the bench. Dude is up there in age now.
RE: calling Phil Jackson an amatuer  
Sgrcts : 6/24/2016 10:47 am : link
In comment 13007480 Shirk130 said:
Quote:
is so stupid it's hilarious. How many rings does one have to win to gain some credibility. He knows more about the game than anyone on this board, and still takes so much shit. Just look at the state of the team today compared to where we were when he signed on, it's 180 degree turn. Knicks are on the right track, being run by a real grownup. As a season ticket holder, I'm thrilled with where we are headed.


How is it a 180 turn? Besides Porzingis, he just did what every other Knicks GM has done in some form for a while- 1) trade assets for an overpaid injured former star who can't play that well anymore and 2) hope and pray that some FA will want to come to the Knicks despite them being a horrible team.

I say this as a guy who supported Phil riiiiiight up until this trade. Same old Knicks.
Also, remember, we're going to need a good backup PG  
TheMick7 : 6/24/2016 10:48 am : link
who is capable of playing starter minutes should the petals come off the Rose! DJ Augustin would be a nice pick-up!
+1  
Jon in NYC : 6/24/2016 10:49 am : link
On Crawford. Pass unless he's a backup.
RE: RE: calling Phil Jackson an amatuer  
djm : 6/24/2016 11:07 am : link
In comment 13007502 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 13007480 Shirk130 said:


Quote:


is so stupid it's hilarious. How many rings does one have to win to gain some credibility. He knows more about the game than anyone on this board, and still takes so much shit. Just look at the state of the team today compared to where we were when he signed on, it's 180 degree turn. Knicks are on the right track, being run by a real grownup. As a season ticket holder, I'm thrilled with where we are headed.


knowing the game of basketball and operating in a front office capacity are two very different things. He is most certainly an amateur when it comes to the latter. He's been proving it on nearly trade/signing he's made.


You're gonna ride this wave of nonsense for as long as possible. Good for you.
.  
Anakim : 6/24/2016 11:23 am : link
Dallas Mavs news ‏@dmn_mavericks
Report: Mavericks expected to show interest in Knicks free agent Lance Thomas
RE: I can't see Noah getting a big deal north  
giantsfan44ab : 6/24/2016 11:37 am : link
In comment 13007429 Italianju said:
Quote:
Of 10 mill. He is just too injury prone to give a big deal to. I think the Knicks can get in the ball park of what others are offering and then hopefully with rose, Melo, and it being his hometown it's enough. A healthy Noah and KP is a very strong defensive front court.


Don't have any reports but on a podcast I listened to mid season (Lowe maybe?) it sounded like he's not gonna have a shortage of suitors and I think $10-12M a year is optimistically low. Thibs I hear is being attributed to going after him. I mean they really have no other targets and he's the type of vet they could use.
RE: RE: RE: calling Phil Jackson an amatuer  
Enzo : 6/24/2016 12:01 pm : link
In comment 13007601 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13007502 Enzo said:


Quote:


In comment 13007480 Shirk130 said:


Quote:


is so stupid it's hilarious. How many rings does one have to win to gain some credibility. He knows more about the game than anyone on this board, and still takes so much shit. Just look at the state of the team today compared to where we were when he signed on, it's 180 degree turn. Knicks are on the right track, being run by a real grownup. As a season ticket holder, I'm thrilled with where we are headed.


knowing the game of basketball and operating in a front office capacity are two very different things. He is most certainly an amateur when it comes to the latter. He's been proving it on nearly trade/signing he's made.




You're gonna ride this wave of nonsense for as long as possible. Good for you.

I just can't see how anyone with even a casual understanding of the cap, CBA, and how quality NBA teams are built can think Phil has done a good job so far. Not buying a pick last night was just the latest example of his ineptness.
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