NFT: Knicks/Draft Day Talk 6/23

names in the 2nd that intrigue me:

Malcom Brogdon, Caris Levert, Isiah Whitehead, Ben Bentil.

so we can take a player we give up on after one season

I have no problems buying a pick, get a year of service and use that player as a trading chip.

In comment 13005610 Deej said:

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so we can take a player we give up on after one season

Come on man, it isn't quite fair to say that they "gave up" on Grant.

Would Knicks be able to sign d rose after using cap spacenext year or would he have a cap hold? Basically can Knicks sign 2 max guys next year and then go over cap to resign rose assuming he plays well and stays healthy?

the knicks should just never ever ever pick a player again because they might end up trading that player or "give up" on them.........We get it you didnt like the trade.

every player has a cap hold. So yes the knicks can go over the cap to sign rose, but his cap hold is going to be pretty huge, like 25-30 mill huge.

In comment 13005620 GMEN46 said:

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Would Knicks be able to sign d rose after using cap spacenext year or would he have a cap hold? Basically can Knicks sign 2 max guys next year and then go over cap to resign rose assuming he plays well and stays healthy?

There's always a cap hold for guys, even if you have their birds. So basically there's no way we could do 2 another two max players, Melo AND Rose, unless Rose took a pretty big paycut.

are offering 1.5 million around the league for a #2 though some "experts" think the going rate is now closer to 3.

draft with no picks. That said there will be guys we all talk about that will go undrafted and the knicks with a lot of roster spots could be in a good spot to have their pick of those guys.

"A playmaking two-guard would help; the Knicks are expected to aggressively pursue free agent Evan Turner to fill that role."
Link - ( New Window )

and Evan Turner may be the worst shooting backcourt of all time.

Need to get a couple of 2nd rounders and cheap undrafted guys to start filling out roster...

It will basically take up the rest of their cap space depending on what they do this year in free agency

gave a tepid "thumbs up/it's fine" to the Rose deal but Rose + Turner seems like a horrendous combo. Talk about giving defenders room to sag off of players. YUCK

to rose. We seem to need more of a 3 and D type guy which Turner is not. Maybe a Courtney Lee would make sense. To be honest id rather go with Gerald Henderson at probably half the cost of Turner. Henderson is similar in that he is kind of that do all player that does not excel at any one thing. Plus i believe he is a solid defender but i could be wrong.

Rose and Turner despise each other too.

In comment 13005619 Jon in NYC said:

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In comment 13005610 Deej said: Quote: so we can take a player we give up on after one season Come on man, it isn't quite fair to say that they "gave up" on Grant.

It's kind of fair. They took him in the first and a year later they're trading him for a one year rental at the same position who will play in a season where we have zero championship aspirations (barring Durant signing here).

Combo added in free agency is a good combo to add, then add some veteran depth with remaining money

Can't add another slasher, Melo can play off the ball but he is still going to have the ball in his hands a lot so the 2 guard can't be a guy who can't shoot...

I prefer Noah over Pau because of his toughness and defense he brings but either one I am OK with to a certain dollar amount

the two remaining starting spots. Do they spend big on big like Howard, Horford, whiteside, etc.. and then go bargain shopping for a Guard. Or do they maybe try to go a bit balanced and go after a Turner knowing that it will put them in the Gasol, noah, etc.. market. Since i dont really like turner at his supposed price point id rather go for the difference making big and figure out the SG with what money they have left.

this team needs a spot up shooter with range. And a corner 3 guy.

Crabbe and Gasol. Crabbe gives you the youth/upside this team needs and Gasol is still a very good player even if his D isnt what it used to be. Then just go out and find a defensive big to backup Gasol/KP. Defense only bigs can usually be found fairly cheap.

I think Phil goes bargain with Pau or noah

Then goes hard after a shooting guard, said this yesterday push for Derozan or Batum if no go after Fournier or crabbe

They drafted a pure pick and roll college PG, and had him play in a system he had no clue what to do in. And traded him in a year.

Why is BBI so quick to give up on young players, whether it's football or basketball. It defies logic how some posters love young talent until they're not an instant success.

should be the first guys they go after just based on age and upside. These guys are young and their best basketball should be ahead of them. That said i see no chance they get Derozan.

I wouldnt be shocked if Dwight gets less money then people think he will. He doesnt have the best reputation around the league, isnt getting younger, and their are other FA centers out there you could spend on. If the knicks got DH for a reasonable deal id be pretty happy. They seem so old but its crazy that Rose is 27 and Howard is only 30, i guess all their injuries make them seem older.

i think some of it was just the eye test for people. We loved shumpert way longer then we should have because he showed us a lot that rookie year. Grant was just not very good. Im not saying a guy has to be a star right out of the gate, or even average, but they shouldnt look like crap. Grant looked like crap. Couldnt shoot, couldnt finish around the rim, etc.. I think we all would have been thrilled if he became a league avg PG and the odds of him doing that just dont seem that good to me.

I would think about it but he is going to want minimum 25 a year in my opinion

Sources: Charlotte's offering No. 22 - if team will take contract of Spencer Hawes or Jeremy Lamb. Hornets need space to re-sign free agents

Sources: Several Western teams aggressive on Thad Young, whom Brooklyn's working to move to highest bidder. This gets Nets into first-round.

In comment 13005695 CromartiesKid21 said:

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Sources: Charlotte's offering No. 22 - if team will take contract of Spencer Hawes or Jeremy Lamb. Hornets need space to re-sign free agents

Fuck that, lamb makes 7 million a year for the next 2 years, and hawes makes 5

And traded melo to rebuild that is the type of trade with Charlotte that would make sense

neither player is making much (around 6-7 per) and both could actually help the knicks. Lamb isnt the shooter we need, but if he was the starting 2 i wouldnt hate it. Plus those contracts are going to be peanuts in a couple years. And hawes has a PO next year and with the way contracts are going to go it wouldnt shock me if he opted out.

Has lamb as a free agent this year and hawes has a player option for next year. I would think hawes would def opt out after this year with cap increase.

"all over that" is a stretch, but i think they should consider it. Lamb is still only 24 years old and had a PER around 16 last year in limited minutes. Again we really need a shooter for the 2 guard, but lamb could be a solid addtion, the length of his deal would give me the most pause.

In comment 13005686 Italianju said:

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i think some of it was just the eye test for people. We loved shumpert way longer then we should have because he showed us a lot that rookie year. Grant was just not very good. Im not saying a guy has to be a star right out of the gate, or even average, but they shouldnt look like crap. Grant looked like crap. Couldnt shoot, couldnt finish around the rim, etc.. I think we all would have been thrilled if he became a league avg PG and the odds of him doing that just dont seem that good to me.

He absolutely struggled, and college seniors at their advanced age can't afford to, but he wasn't put into a fair situation either. They expected him to figure out the triangle, which is tough for a guard used to playing with the ball in his hands, and then he got stuck with a sad ass coach who was only interested in trying to keep his job. Very little attempt to develop him. Playing under Hornacek, who has a track record of success with PGs, would've at least given us a chance to see what he is.

Lamb signed a 3 year 21 mill extension.

had value across the league, and we utilized it to upgrade the position. That isn't "giving up on him". That's like saying we gave up on Gallo to get Melo. C'mon folks.

rate on late firsts is extremely poor. I wouldn't risk dipping into our 2017 stash for one.

In comment 13005698 CromartiesKid21 said:

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Sources: Several Western teams aggressive on Thad Young, whom Brooklyn's working to move to highest bidder. This gets Nets into first-round.

i would be OK with that --- he should be a 6th man type on a good team

We'll end up spending more for a free agent without the pick.

Although at this point nothing less than a lottery pick excites the Sixers fanbase.

lamb to make the move. If you see him as a contributor to a good team then it makes some sense, but if your doing it just to get the pick its not worth it. To bad Hawes doesnt have a TO after next year instead of a PO, id feel better knowing he would 100% be gone after the season.

stuff I read on Twitter from the analysts and what I've seen on You Tube so obviously, I'm an expert on this draft. Haha



Tier 1:

SF DeAndre' Bembry of St. Joseph's


Tier 2:

PF/C Thon Maker of Australia
SG/SF Caris LeVert (if the foot problems check out) of Michigan
PG Gary Payton II of Oregon State

Tier 3:

PF Zhou Qi of China
PF Pascal Siakam of New Mexico State
PF Joel Bolomboy of Weber State
C Cheick Diallo of Kansas
SG Malcolm Brogdon of Virginia
PG/SG Pat McCaw of UNLV
PG/SG Isaiah Whitehead of Seton Hall

Is he going to come over this year or is he going to stay in Europe?

In comment 13005758 Jay on the Island said:

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Is he going to come over this year or is he going to stay in Europe?

Supposedly wants to come over. Rumor is the Knicks have offered 4 years 4.5.

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Instead, in a deal Forman called "a retool rather than a rebuild," the Bulls proactively tried to get some return for Rose, clearly the best player in the trade. Sources said other exploratory talks led to teams asking the Bulls to include a future first-round pick to take on Rose's contract, knowing he could walk in free agency next summer.

very little has changed at MSG.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13005760 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 13005758 Jay on the Island said: Quote: Is he going to come over this year or is he going to stay in Europe? Supposedly wants to come over. Rumor is the Knicks have offered 4 years 4.5.

Thanks Dan, any news on how he performed last year? Is he an option to steal some minutes at center?

In comment 13005758 Jay on the Island said:

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Is he going to come over this year or is he going to stay in Europe?

Knicks want to bring him over, but from what I last read about it the play himself isn't quite sure he wants to leave yet.

Quote:

The Post has learned the Knicks paid the Sixers $1.5 million for the 35th overall pick last year, which they used for center Willy Hernangomez, whom they plan to bring aboard for next season. Early second-rounders are the most economical in the draft because the minimum contract is $535,000.

This moron still doesn't know we also traded two future seconds to get Willy. He also doesn't know that in a year where most teams are significantly under the cap - second rounders may end up making more than first rounders.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13005772 Enzo said:

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Quote: The Post has learned the Knicks paid the Sixers $1.5 million for the 35th overall pick last year, which they used for center Willy Hernangomez, whom they plan to bring aboard for next season. Early second-rounders are the most economical in the draft because the minimum contract is $535,000. This moron still doesn't know we also traded two future seconds to get Willy. He also doesn't know that in a year where most teams are significantly under the cap - second rounders may end up making more than first rounders. Link - ( New Window )

From what I've read the going rate for a 2nd is now expected to be about 3 million.

In comment 13005765 Jay on the Island said:

Quote:

In comment 13005760 DanMetroMan said: Quote: In comment 13005758 Jay on the Island said: Quote: Is he going to come over this year or is he going to stay in Europe? Supposedly wants to come over. Rumor is the Knicks have offered 4 years 4.5. Thanks Dan, any news on how he performed last year? Is he an option to steal some minutes at center?

Played for a veteran high level team so he didn't play a "ton" but played pretty well. I think unless he's going to be playing a ton over there vs. not playing here he's better off coming to the NBA now. His brother has said he (meaning his brother) wants to play in the NBA right away so that could have an impact.

the max you can send out in a transaction per year. We are most likely operating with less than that if we did in fact send out cash in the O'Quinn sign-and-trade.

In comment 13005764 Enzo said:

Quote:

Quote: Instead, in a deal Forman called "a retool rather than a rebuild," the Bulls proactively tried to get some return for Rose, clearly the best player in the trade. Sources said other exploratory talks led to teams asking the Bulls to include a future first-round pick to take on Rose's contract, knowing he could walk in free agency next summer. very little has changed at MSG. Link - ( New Window )

This. Wait, except for the fact that the Knicks aren't trading future picks for risky long-term investments, which is what basically made a Knicks trade a "Knicks" trade.

So yes, very little has changed. Except for the main philosophy of the FO which has changed.

In comment 13005780 Enzo said:

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the max you can send out in a transaction per year. We are most likely operating with less than that if we did in fact send out cash in the O'Quinn sign-and-trade.

Wrong again. The Knicks use cash applicable to the following league year when making these deals. So cash used for KOQ has nothing to do with being able to acquire a draft pick this year.

In comment 13005789 Aspano! said:

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This. Wait, except for the fact that the Knicks aren't trading future picks for risky long-term investments, which is what basically made a Knicks trade a "Knicks" trade. So yes, very little has changed. Except for the main philosophy of the FO which has changed.

the "philosophy" of always overpaying is still going strong. And a trade doesn't have to involve giving up draft picks to make it a bad one. Steve Francis comes to mind. Or even the Z-Bo deal where they included Frye when Portland was desperate to dump his deal. Normal franchises expect something in return for taking high-priced damaged goods in a trade - the Knicks are always happy to trade assets in return. Nothing has changed.

In comment 13005789 Aspano! said:

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This. Wait, except for the fact that the Knicks aren't trading future picks for risky long-term investments, which is what basically made a Knicks trade a "Knicks" trade. So yes, very little has changed. Except for the main philosophy of the FO which has changed.

To be fair, they didn't have any picks to trade. Who can say if their philosophy has changed.

Take your repetitive "I had this trade comments" to the other thread. It's just getting old. Leave this thread to the draft and the Knicks. It's really sickening. I thought I was bad calling out Fat Ray but this is over the top!

not mentioning the 2 picks we included in the deal really comes off as embarrassingly ill-informed. How does a professional writer not mention it?

In comment 13005799 Aspano! said:

Quote:

In comment 13005780 Enzo said: Quote: the max you can send out in a transaction per year. We are most likely operating with less than that if we did in fact send out cash in the O'Quinn sign-and-trade. Wrong again. The Knicks use cash applicable to the following league year when making these deals. So cash used for KOQ has nothing to do with being able to acquire a draft pick this year.

the league year starts in July. If the trade is agreed upon and announced on draft night, it takes place in the prior league year. Sometimes trades aren't consummated until the new league year, but not always.

In comment 13005809 DanMetroMan said:

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not mentioning the 2 picks we included in the deal really comes off as embarrassingly ill-informed. How does a professional writer not mention it?

and he even brags about "learning" about how much cash went out in the deal.

In comment 13005704 Italianju said:

Quote:

neither player is making much (around 6-7 per) and both could actually help the knicks. Lamb isnt the shooter we need, but if he was the starting 2 i wouldnt hate it. Plus those contracts are going to be peanuts in a couple years. And hawes has a PO next year and with the way contracts are going to go it wouldnt shock me if he opted out.

I'd do either. Lamb in particular even though it complicates the purported cap room. Worst case scenario we attach a similar asset to get rid of him.

Boy, it really seems like picks in this draft are nearly worthless, huh? Attaching #22 to get rid of a not-bad Lamb contract (and he has upside). #12 for a year of George Hill.

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 36s37 seconds ago
Sources say Phoenix, in its failed trade pitch to convince Utah to surrender Gordon Hayward, tried to pair Eric Bledsoe with a lottery pick

In comment 13005821 Deej said:

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In comment 13005704 Italianju said: Quote: neither player is making much (around 6-7 per) and both could actually help the knicks. Lamb isnt the shooter we need, but if he was the starting 2 i wouldnt hate it. Plus those contracts are going to be peanuts in a couple years. And hawes has a PO next year and with the way contracts are going to go it wouldnt shock me if he opted out. I'd do either. Lamb in particular even though it complicates the purported cap room. Worst case scenario we attach a similar asset to get rid of him. Boy, it really seems like picks in this draft are nearly worthless, huh? Attaching #22 to get rid of a not-bad Lamb contract (and he has upside). #12 for a year of George Hill.

Same. At 22 I'd take someone like Valentine (I know you aren't a fan), Beasley or Richardson.

If they are interested in Turner for double that I'd take Lamb and #22 over Turner.

Lamb 15.9 PER, .107 WS/48 vs. Turner 13.6 PER, 0.85 WS/48 so if the Turner interest is real this option sound MUCH better

Still depressed over this awful Rose trade, and shocked at smart basketball fans thinking Rose has upside. This trade is Bargnani bad, on a certain level it feels way way way worse.

In comment 13005848 DanMetroMan said:

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If they are interested in Turner for double that I'd take Lamb and #22 over Turner. Lamb 15.9 PER, .107 WS/48 vs. Turner 13.6 PER, 0.85 WS/48 so if the Turner interest is real this option sound MUCH better

Id take that Lamb deal in a heartbeat. If he shows any potential as even a rotational deal his contract is fantastic. Even though they made a win now trade I don't think they should just start throwing money at 35 year old free agents

was as bad as the Bargnani trade. We won't know if we made out on the Rose trade until next offseason. There's still work to be done.

In comment 13005854 Sgrcts said:

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Still depressed over this awful Rose trade, and shocked at smart basketball fans thinking Rose has upside. This trade is Bargnani bad, on a certain level it feels way way way worse.

No it doesn't not even close

But it's also not some kind of savior move that's going to make the team some kind of destination. You're getting a PG that's played 39% of his games since 2012.

In comment 13005848 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

If they are interested in Turner for double that I'd take Lamb and #22 over Turner. Lamb 15.9 PER, .107 WS/48 vs. Turner 13.6 PER, 0.85 WS/48 so if the Turner interest is real this option sound MUCH better

100%

In comment 13005854 Sgrcts said:

Quote:

Still depressed over this awful Rose trade, and shocked at smart basketball fans thinking Rose has upside. This trade is Bargnani bad, on a certain level it feels way way way worse.

it shows a similar flawed approach to team building but it's not as bad as the Bargs trade.

No first round pick given up and knicks are not cap strapped, they can still keep adding pieces including a max...so it's not like they added rose and the team is done can't add anymore

In comment 13005827 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 36s37 seconds ago Sources say Phoenix, in its failed trade pitch to convince Utah to surrender Gordon Hayward, tried to pair Eric Bledsoe with a lottery pick

Bledsoe AND a lottery pick for a player who can opt out next offseason.

And no one expected that pick in the Bargnani deal to be a lottery pick. We also didn't give up another starter to make the deal happen. Especially not a starter who is better then the player we traded for. You also can easily make the case Bargs was a better NBA player at the time of the trade then Rose is now. Rose is awful.

In comment 13005893 Sgrcts said:

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You also can easily make the case Bargs was a better NBA player at the time of the trade then Rose is now. Rose is awful.

No you can't. Bargnani was, is and always will be atrocious. It made no sense at the time and still doesn't.

In comment 13005891 Deej said:

Quote:

In comment 13005827 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 36s37 seconds ago Sources say Phoenix, in its failed trade pitch to convince Utah to surrender Gordon Hayward, tried to pair Eric Bledsoe with a lottery pick Bledsoe AND a lottery pick for a player who can opt out next offseason.

To be fair they just got George Hill, don't know really how much of an improvement Bledsoe is. But I guess Hill would be the starting 2 guard after that trade.

In comment 13005872 nygiants16 said:

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No first round pick given up and knicks are not cap strapped, they can still keep adding pieces including a max...so it's not like they added rose and the team is done can't add anymore

it's still trading assets for damaged goods (that the other team is looking to rid themselves of). It's just different types of assets.

that we gave up more in the Rose trade than the Bargs trade. If a year of George Hill nets you the #12 pick this year than I think 3 years of Rolo on what will clearly be a below market deal could net you the #9 pick (Denver's 2016 #1). Is Grant worth more than Q and Novak and Camby circa the time of the Bargs trade? I think yes. Novak playe 500 minutes for the Raps and then they used a #2 to ditch him. Q and Camby were waived.

So then you have some #2s in there, and Calderon. I think Calderon has value in this market, even if people (even GMs) dont realize it at this point.

.

apparently thats a valued asset these days

In comment 13005917 jintz4life said:

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apparently thats a valued asset these days

if that's your view, then what does that say about the guy who drafted him? What does it say about nearly their entire 2015 offseason? Tons of cap space and a #19 pick and all they have to show for it is one year of broken down Derrick Rose coming up. That's awful.

Has accepted and committed to play in Rio according to woj

In comment 13005907 Deej said:

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I think Calderon has value in this market, even if people (even GMs) dont realize it at this point.

😂🔫😂🔫😂🔫😂🔫

In comment 13005929 nygiants16 said:

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Has accepted and committed to play in Rio according to woj

Pretty expected. It's something he has said he loves doing, playing on that team.

In comment 13005917 jintz4life said:

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apparently thats a valued asset these days

Who says his ceiling was a backup? That's absurd.

be for his career. Good read.

In comment 13005932 Canton said:

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In comment 13005907 Deej said: Quote: I think Calderon has value in this market, even if people (even GMs) dont realize it at this point. 😂🔫😂🔫😂🔫😂🔫

I know it sounds crazy. But he is a very good shooter. Floor spacer. On a shitty team you see his warts. On a team where he plays 15 minutes a night, it's a different story. good teams get use out of players like this.

What would people say if Richard Jefferson was playing a ball dominant role here? You cant win with an old make like that! Yet on Cleveland he's a valuable shot minute contributor.

Calderon has value because he's just $7 million for one year. Lets you preserve cap space for next summer, or avoid a terrible long term commitment.

who appeared in at least 60 games by ESPN RPM. Only Ty Lawson was worse. I think you guys are underestimating how bad Rose is.

In comment 13005944 Sgrcts said:

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who appeared in at least 60 games by ESPN RPM. Only Ty Lawson was worse. I think you guys are underestimating how bad Rose is.

His last 3 months of play when his eyesight cleared up suggest differently.

Were very solid!

in the Olympics. Puts the roster at this..

Melo
Lowry
Cousins
George
Durant
Butler
Green.

In comment 13005947 dep026 said:

Quote:

In comment 13005944 Sgrcts said: Quote: who appeared in at least 60 games by ESPN RPM. Only Ty Lawson was worse. I think you guys are underestimating how bad Rose is. His last 3 months of play when his eyesight cleared up suggest differently.

Really? His last 4 months by Offensive Rating/Defensive Rating:

102/112
103/113
98/113
87/120


SUPERSTAR!

Here's two other guys on the same team for reference:

Gasol:
109/102
114/105
97/103
112/104


Butler:
121/109
129/107
112/108
120/114

statistics again...

How many games did you see him play?

Unless you are a blithering idi- oh wait, I am talking to dep.

stat is really key. I mean those 3 games are going to dictate how he plays this year.

Again.... his Janurary, February, and March play was much much better than what he produced at the beginning of the year when he was wearing a mask and had blurry vision.

In comment 13005989 Sgrcts said:

Quote:

Unless you are a blithering idi- oh wait, I am talking to dep.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

Are you going to come out and say right now that rose was worse than Jose Calderon?

I'm a bit confused how you arrived at the 26 million in space number? Knicks are currently at 56.2 million based on what I've read and the cap will be 97 so wouldn't the Knicks have 40.8 million not 26? Or I'm i missing something (those
"ghost" holds or whatever?)?

I will concede that he had a very nice March and post ASB in general. Although it seems almost every play has a good post ASB now that I think about it. Seems like a part of the season where players in general care less.

But Rose does put together a string of weeks where he looks like a top 10 or even top 5 PG. that's something to look forward to. If you check his splits on ESPN there is a drastic difference between games he has 1 day of rest vs 2 days of rest. Hopefully another season will allow him to acclimate more. That's the optimist viewpoint anyway.

In comment 13005995 kash94 said:

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I'm a bit confused how you arrived at the 26 million in space number? Knicks are currently at 56.2 million based on what I've read and the cap will be 97 so wouldn't the Knicks have 40.8 million not 26? Or I'm i missing something (those "ghost" holds or whatever?)?

I think it's 92 not 97. I think Galloway's QO and Hernanagomez might be counted for in that number.

In comment 13005996 giantsfan44ab said:

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I will concede that he had a very nice March and post ASB in general. Although it seems almost every play has a good post ASB now that I think about it. Seems like a part of the season where players in general care less. But Rose does put together a string of weeks where he looks like a top 10 or even top 5 PG. that's something to look forward to. If you check his splits on ESPN there is a drastic difference between games he has 1 day of rest vs 2 days of rest. Hopefully another season will allow him to acclimate more. That's the optimist viewpoint anyway.

People here are really leaving out how his vision affected him early in the year. He ditched the mask on december 10th...and his play got much better.

And, the dyfunctionality of the team made players unaware of their roles.

deal is as good or as bad as people are saying it is here. I'm not a fan of it but more-so because of the long-term implications (i.e. Rose will probably be gone after this year regardless of how he plays while Lopez and Grant were cost-controlled next few years), rather than this upcoming year.

Rose has obviously declined a lot but he's better than Calderon/Grant. I just hope that the Knicks don't max out on a center like Howard.... Then I won't really get the move.

Also this is definitely not the Bargs trade. The Bargs trade involved 3 picks including a first rounder + he had TWO years on his deal as opposed to Rose who is an expiring one. This will only be that level of awfulness if Grant turns into a reliable every-day starter and Lopez rises to an upper-echelon center.

Cap is supposed to be 94 million. I forget who, but one of the writers said they should have about 36 million in cap space as of right now.

think the Lamb deal makes a lot of sense if a player they like falls to 22. Lamb isn't a bad player himself. Not impossible he himself proves to be a solid starting 2. Kid was a lotto pick in 2012, just turned 24 in May. I feel like if he were a FA and the Knicks gave him 3 for 21 a lot of people on here would be touting it as a solid move, throw in the 22nd overall pick and I'm in.

In comment 13005995 kash94 said:

Quote:

I'm a bit confused how you arrived at the 26 million in space number? Knicks are currently at 56.2 million based on what I've read and the cap will be 97 so wouldn't the Knicks have 40.8 million not 26? Or I'm i missing something (those "ghost" holds or whatever?)?

Yeah, I was wrong. Thought I read that somewhere.

In comment 13005999 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

In comment 13005995 kash94 said: Quote: I'm a bit confused how you arrived at the 26 million in space number? Knicks are currently at 56.2 million based on what I've read and the cap will be 97 so wouldn't the Knicks have 40.8 million not 26? Or I'm i missing something (those "ghost" holds or whatever?)? I think it's 92 not 97. I think Galloway's QO and Hernanagomez might be counted for in that number.

Ah you're right thanks for that.

disappointed that they didn't try getting Taj Gibson in the deal. I know he's a PF but I think it could've worked out with him getting 20-25 minutes a night at center. I hate Noah to death but the dude is a winner and getting him on a 1 +1 deal would be solid. I'm not sure if he's willing to play with rose after rose reportedly stole his girl, but hopefully that's not true.

Mirotic, so they have to keep Gibson, for now.

about the actual draft or possible moves on this thread already. You have to wade through the bitching about the trade followed by the counter bitch to the bitching. Just kinda annoying to try to talk about the team when you have so many "same old knicks" "i hate this team" etc... comments. I get people have their opinions and want to vent but I almost feel like there should be two threads, one to bitch about the knicks and one to talk about them (and im only half kidding there).

Im with you Dan. If there is a player they like at 22 i would have no problem pulling the trigger on getting Lamb and the pick.

In comment 13006008 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

think the Lamb deal makes a lot of sense if a player they like falls to 22. Lamb isn't a bad player himself. Not impossible he himself proves to be a solid starting 2. Kid was a lotto pick in 2012, just turned 24 in May. I feel like if he were a FA and the Knicks gave him 3 for 21 a lot of people on here would be touting it as a solid move, throw in the 22nd overall pick and I'm in.

I have a hard time understanding why Lamb doesn't get more playing time. He puts together 10-15 point games when he gets legit minutes. Good enough that they extended him for 3 years like a month or so into the season. And then they go out and trade for Lee and he barely sees the court after. I have hard time seeing him being any worse than Afflalo

he has some great upside and could seem like a piece you build around with Butler. Although if you are going full rebuild then he is also an asset that could return some useful pieces.

In comment 13006030 Italianju said:

Quote:

he has some great upside and could seem like a piece you build around with Butler. Although if you are going full rebuild then he is also an asset that could return some useful pieces.

Don't think they're going full rebuild after acquiring Lopez who has 3 years left on his deal.

In comment 13006030 Italianju said:

Quote:

he has some great upside and could seem like a piece you build around with Butler. Although if you are going full rebuild then he is also an asset that could return some useful pieces.

Well they have 3 guys at PF now. Gibson, Mirotic, and Portis. They really like Portis. I think one of them has to go. Mirotic has more value than Gibson, right now.

In comment 13006008 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

think the Lamb deal makes a lot of sense if a player they like falls to 22. Lamb isn't a bad player himself. Not impossible he himself proves to be a solid starting 2. Kid was a lotto pick in 2012, just turned 24 in May. I feel like if he were a FA and the Knicks gave him 3 for 21 a lot of people on here would be touting it as a solid move, throw in the 22nd overall pick and I'm in.

I think depending on how you feel about Lamb, the pick is just icing. IMO he'd get that deal or better in this market. I mean, AA and Williams are expecting that deal.

As for 22, it's becoming apparent that the league thinks this draft is putrid for depth. So I cant weigh in that much. But if we get that pick I'd take a developmental player. An athlete who just needs to add something to be a valuable rotation player. A 3 and D guy without the 3 yet. A running 4/5 who needs to get stronger. Something like that. Or Valentine as a flyer, but I think he'll go higher.

Nice thing about the modern NBA is that there are more opportunities for tweeners/positionless players. These guys can be had later on.

says PHI is ramping up its efforts to get the 3rd pick. Wonder which player BOS is looking at or if its a 3 way deal. 3 way makes more sense as BOS seems like it wants a more established player then say Okafor or Noel. I guess PHI thinks they can send one of the bigs for the 3rd pick to help balance the roster a bit. That said i dont think the 3rd pick in this draft is great return for say Noel or Okafor. If it is just the 3rd pick i guess.

Lamb? I'm a UConn fan and I definitely expected more. But hey, still young.

What would go the other way in a trade? If it's a future first, that's not good, IMO.

think "as is" Lamb would represent a decent enough addition and he has some attributes that could be appealing. Good length, not a bad shooter.

For context last 2 seasons .112 WS/48, 15.5 PER

Afflalo .052 WS/48, 10.8 PER

Galloway .063 WS/48, 11.9 PER

Turner .070 WS/48, 13.2 PER

Crabbe .094 WS/48 11.2 PER

Batum .101 WS/48, 14.4 PER


I fully realize that you have to take the fact he played a lot less minutes than Batum into account BUT I think it's worth the gamble if someone you like is there at 22

In comment 13006051 Italianju said:

Quote:

says PHI is ramping up its efforts to get the 3rd pick. Wonder which player BOS is looking at or if its a 3 way deal. 3 way makes more sense as BOS seems like it wants a more established player then say Okafor or Noel. I guess PHI thinks they can send one of the bigs for the 3rd pick to help balance the roster a bit. That said i dont think the 3rd pick in this draft is great return for say Noel or Okafor. If it is just the 3rd pick i guess.

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
Numerous rivals describe Philly as the most active team in circulation ... with a trade involving Nerlens Noel looking more and more likely

In comment 13006041 Deej said:

Quote:

In comment 13006008 DanMetroMan said: Quote: think the Lamb deal makes a lot of sense if a player they like falls to 22. Lamb isn't a bad player himself. Not impossible he himself proves to be a solid starting 2. Kid was a lotto pick in 2012, just turned 24 in May. I feel like if he were a FA and the Knicks gave him 3 for 21 a lot of people on here would be touting it as a solid move, throw in the 22nd overall pick and I'm in. I think depending on how you feel about Lamb, the pick is just icing. IMO he'd get that deal or better in this market. I mean, AA and Williams are expecting that deal. As for 22, it's becoming apparent that the league thinks this draft is putrid for depth. So I cant weigh in that much. But if we get that pick I'd take a developmental player. An athlete who just needs to add something to be a valuable rotation player. A 3 and D guy without the 3 yet. A running 4/5 who needs to get stronger. Something like that. Or Valentine as a flyer, but I think he'll go higher. Nice thing about the modern NBA is that there are more opportunities for tweeners/positionless players. These guys can be had later on.

Let's pretend DX is the "bible"... I'd take Lamb and one of these guys

"17.
MEM
(42-40) Malachi Richardson
SG/SF (Syracuse - Freshman)
20.4 years old | 6'6" | 200 lbs Malachi Richardson 2016 NBA Draft Scouting Video - Strengths
Watch Video
2015-16 NCAA (37 GP)
13.4 PPG 4.3 RPG 2.1 APG 14.0 PER
18.
DET
(44-38) Juan Hernangomez
SF/PF (Estudiantes - International)
20.7 years old | 6'9" | 220 lbs Juan Hernangomez 2015-16 NBA Draft Scouting Video: Strengths
Watch Video
2015-16 ACB (34 GP)
9.7 PPG 5.7 RPG 0.6 APG 16.8 PER
19.
DEN
from POR
(44-38) Wade Baldwin
PG (Vanderbilt - Sophomore)
20.2 years old | 6'4" | 202 lbs Wade Baldwin 2016 NBA Draft Scouting Video - Strengths
Watch Video
2015-16 NCAA (33 GP)
14.1 PPG 4.0 RPG 5.2 APG 20.9 PER
20.
IND
(45-37) Henry Ellenson
PF (Marquette - Freshman)
19.4 years old | 7'0" | 242 lbs Henry Ellenson 2016 NBA Draft Scouting Video - Strengths
Watch Video
2015-16 NCAA (33 GP)
17.0 PPG 9.9 RPG 1.8 APG 21.3 PER
21.
ATL
(48-34) Dejounte Murray
PG/SG (Washington - Freshman)
19.7 years old | 6'5" | 170 lbs Dejounte Murray 2016 NBA Draft Scouting Video - Strengths
Watch Video
2015-16 NCAA (34 GP)
16.1 PPG 6.0 RPG 4.5 APG 17.1 PER
22.
CHA
(48-34) Taurean Prince
SF (Baylor - Senior)
21.8 years old | 6'8" | 220 lbs Taurean Prince 2016 NBA Draft Scouting Video - Strengths
Watch Video
2015-16 NCAA (33 GP)
16.0 PPG 6.0 RPG 2.3 APG 21.1 PER
23.
BOS
(48-34) Furkan Korkmaz
SG (Anadolu Efes - International)
18.9 years old | 6'7" | 185 lbs Furkan Korkmaz 2016 NBA Draft Scouting Video - Strengths
Watch Video
2015-16 Euroleague, Turkish (56 GP)
4.3 PPG 1.2 RPG 0.6 APG 11.8 PER
24.
PHI
from MIA
(48-34) Cheick Diallo
PF/C (Kansas - Freshman)
19.7 years old | 6'9" | 219 lbs Cheick Diallo 2016 NBA Draft Scouting Video - Strengths
Watch Video
2015-16 NCAA (27 GP)
3.0 PPG 2.5 RPG 0.0 APG 21.1 PER

rumor is the Bulls love Baldwin at 14.

In comment 13005990 dep026 said:

Quote:

stat is really key. I mean those 3 games are going to dictate how he plays this year. Again.... his Janurary, February, and March play was much much better than what he produced at the beginning of the year when he was wearing a mask and had blurry vision.

Sure just ignore the other 3 months where he was horrible, the same time span you claim he was much much better. Much much better at what?

review of his season. Played well early, got extended, started to struggle and fell out of the rotation. He suffered a shoulder injury which might explain the falloff.

I read somewhere that Lamb says he needs to work on his nutrition and conditioning. Which suggests to me he struggled with his legs, which can effect long range shooting.
Link - ( New Window )

Knicks will sit down with Durant July 1st, remember he was the one who said Durant had no interest

but you get to add a 24 year old lamb and the 22nd pick. That is more youth on the roster to go with KP. The book isnt shut on lamb yet i dont think. Id love to see what he could do with 30 minutes. I get why he didnt play early on with OKC, but it is a bit worrisome that he couldnt carve out more minutes on the Hornets.

In comment 13006074 dep026 said:

Quote:

rumor is the Bulls love Baldwin at 14.

Bulls seem to draft pretty well

that kinda answered my why didnt he get more minutes question, ha.

In comment 13006078 Deej said:

Quote:

review of his season. Played well early, got extended, started to struggle and fell out of the rotation. He suffered a shoulder injury which might explain the falloff. I read somewhere that Lamb says he needs to work on his nutrition and conditioning. Which suggests to me he struggled with his legs, which can effect long range shooting. Link - ( New Window )

Even after reading that 100% on board. Think of the other realistic options. Turner at 4 years 13-18 per? Crabbe (similarly unproven and needs to be a big offer to pull him away). Lamb + 22 sounds good to me

Him and rose are friends and his interests has peaked

I said, If the Knicks gave Lamb 3 years 21 I suspect most Knicks fans would be talking about his youth, the fact he went lottery, how he had a solid overall season, how tis was an upside move... + a 22nd pick, 100% makes sense to me.

In comment 13006075 Sgrcts said:

Quote:

In comment 13005990 dep026 said: Quote: stat is really key. I mean those 3 games are going to dictate how he plays this year. Again.... his Janurary, February, and March play was much much better than what he produced at the beginning of the year when he was wearing a mask and had blurry vision. Sure just ignore the other 3 months where he was horrible, the same time span you claim he was much much better. Much much better at what?

lol, I already explained a reason why he played better at the turn of 2016 you dumb fuck.

November - he shot 35%
December - he shot 41%
January - he shot 47%
February - he shot 44%
March - he shot 46%

That blurred vision thing.... you know, dumbass, it does affect how one plays. He was forced to wear the mask (not as well as bane obviously), and his play was affected by it.

But before you go clamoring months from now that I said Rose can be MVP again.... I am not. He can still be a very very productive player in this league, and he started to show it at the start of 2016. Watch a game here and there. It helps.

Seem to be getting hyped to go mid lottery. Really like Murray's game, if he could shoot I have no question he'd go #3. Obviously lack of shooting ability scares off NBA executives nowadays for justified reasons.

I've gotten a little worried about Richardson the more I watch/read about him. He has a very, very low floor and I'm not sure he has the ceiling due to his athletic limitations. It would be insane if Beasley fell that far. His floor and ceiling appear to be higher than Richardson's.

In comment 13006085 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Even after reading that 100% on board. Think of the other realistic options. Turner at 4 years 13-18 per? Crabbe (similarly unproven and needs to be a big offer to pull him away). Lamb + 22 sounds good to me

agree

(And I know KD likes KP), can convince him to come all of you haters will change their tune! Just now getting a sit down, with a plan, and can get his friend next year should be enough to like the deal. Prior to the deal, (per Hahn not me) we had no shot!

looks like a potential STEAL at 20.

In comment 13006087 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

Him and rose are friends and his interests has peaked

Can we please get off the durant bandwagon? I'll concede to stop with the Rose hating if we can get off talking about rainbows and unicorns. Durant is not coming here.

Won't have to agonize over this for months.

Brother?

In comment 13006098 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

looks like a potential STEAL at 20.

If he turned out to be Kevin love on offense I still don't think it would make up for his atrocious defensive abilities.

in the 18-24 range has-

Ellenson, Beasley, Valentine, Murray, Hernangomez, Zizic, Jackson. I'd be happy with any of them with Lamb (don't know mch about Zizic) but

"Ante's 25.7 PER in the Adriatic League is the second highest in league history since 2001 for a player under the age of 21. He is leading the league in rebounding, and scoring over 20 points per-40 minutes on tremendous efficiency (68% true shooting percentage). While the Adriatic League is not considered the strongest competition in Europe, it has produced over 50 NBA draft picks throughout the years, so it is obviously a league the NBA takes seriously. "

how many teams Durant is going to meet with. OKC obviously. GSW? SA? LAL?

like McCaw as a sleeper. Intriguing.

In comment 13006103 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

Brother?

I would avoid a defensively challenged 3/4, just because of Melo. Not a great roster fit. Unless you think he's special.

In comment 13006103 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

Brother?

Too easy. It is just too easy.

In comment 13006106 Italianju said:

Quote:

how many teams Durant is going to meet with. OKC obviously. GSW? SA? LAL?

So far just on twitter I've heard LAC, LAL, GSW, and I guess the Knicks? I'm sure it will be more.

Even if Durant stays in OKC on a 1+1 deal it'll be helpful for him to meet with these teams and learn more about them in case he does decide to leave next year. Gives him some more time to do some due diligence on each team.

?

In comment 13006115 aimrocky said:

Quote:

?

No more barnes, iggy, bogut, and probably barbosa.

In comment 13006115 aimrocky said:

Quote:

?

So GS is at 74.2 million so with the cap at 94 million, they have 19.8 in space.

I believe Durant will cost 27-28 million in first year of max right? Since he's in the 7-9 year range (30 percent of 94 million).

So basically they'd need to:
1- Let go of Barnes
2- Let go of Ezeli
3- Let go of Livingston
4- Trade away one more large contract on their books (Iggy, Bogut, etc?)

Just guessing but that's what I think

In comment 13006117 kash94 said:

Quote:

In comment 13006115 aimrocky said: Quote: ? So GS is at 74.2 million so with the cap at 94 million, they have 19.8 in space. I believe Durant will cost 27-28 million in first year of max right? Since he's in the 7-9 year range (30 percent of 94 million). So basically they'd need to: 1- Let go of Barnes 2- Let go of Ezeli 3- Let go of Livingston 4- Trade away one more large contract on their books (Iggy, Bogut, etc?) Just guessing but that's what I think

Oh and not resign any of their other FA's like Barbosa, Speights, Varejao more than likely...

I see a lot of people saying team building 101 or whatever ---people forget that Phil has yet to give up any long term chips other than Grant since he's come aboard and Grant was brought in for Hardaway who we all felt had little to no value. Every deal he has made has fortified the future or present WITHOUT forfeiting any long term assets. We haven't given up any future firsts.

In other words, and try to keep up as I know it's hard to remain positive with every fan writer and blogger bashing this team day n and day out, from a "team building 101" standpoint or asset management POV the Knicks are much much bettet today than they were this time 2 years ago and this time last year. Why?

--KP
--more draft picks available after this current draft than we had years prior
--cap room--and please...save me this latest horse crap mantra that cap space is meaningless. It's only meaningless if you HAVE cap room. If you don't, you're completely fucked.


Try and remain calm. Just because the record hasn't turned upside down and gone from bad to good doesn't mean the team isn't improving. Much like the NY Giants, the records can be misleading. The Giants had a better record in 2013 than they did in 2015 but the 15 team was and is poised to improve dramatically. Same applies to the Knicks. They are on the right track. They still need to get a little lucky and they need to develop from within, but success is attainable.

Lopez was brought in as FA. His value was somewhat of the house money variety since we didn't have to rob peter to pay paul when he was signed last year.

That's not to say you want to just give away assets but like I said, from an asset mgmt standpoint, the Knicks are gaining ground with every passing year. They are at the point now where they won't have to deal from weakness anymore. Even the deal for Rose, it was the Bulls who had to deal from weakness more than the Knicks because they wanted to get rid of the guy.

Ill keep saying it like I have been saying the same shit about the Giants. Despite the horrors of the last few years they are on the right track. They aren't there yet, but many of the toughest hurdles have been cleared.

Knicks didnt trade away valuable long term assets based on what we gave up to acquire those assets last year? Why is that a relevant fact? If the Warriors traded Draymond tomorrow for garbage, would you say "well, he was just a 2nd rounder, so not much was lost"?

Fact is, in June 2016, Knicks had two long term valuable assets in Lopez and Grant. They cashed them in for 1 year of Rose. It was a win-now move for a team that isnt close to winning now.

is Phil Jackson knows talent. Contrary to myth, the guy didn't just stumble into close to a dozen championships. He got there by knowing what the fuck he was coaching and dealing with.

It's not at all crazy to suggest that Phil deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to player evaluation. When has this guy ever fucked up with a player eval that we know of? Isn't it fair to assume Phil has a good grasp on Grant's future after seeing him play in the NBA for a year?

Phil hasn't made one single bad move here. The chandler deal was meh and maybe we could have gotten more but Chandler was nearly done then and he's even closer to done now AND the trade led to signing Lopez--and that was a good move.

Maybe Phil knows what he's doing? God forbid.

And Sabonis. Everyone else I like is injured or probably going top 10.

In comment 13005789 Aspano! said:

Quote:

In comment 13005764 Enzo said: Quote: Quote: Instead, in a deal Forman called "a retool rather than a rebuild," the Bulls proactively tried to get some return for Rose, clearly the best player in the trade. Sources said other exploratory talks led to teams asking the Bulls to include a future first-round pick to take on Rose's contract, knowing he could walk in free agency next summer. very little has changed at MSG. Link - ( New Window ) This. Wait, except for the fact that the Knicks aren't trading future picks for risky long-term investments, which is what basically made a Knicks trade a "Knicks" trade. So yes, very little has changed. Except for the main philosophy of the FO which has changed.

And no mention that the Knicks gave up Calderon who is hot garbage making a lot of money and Lopez who also makes a lot of money. LEt's leave that part out. We also got a 2nd rounder. Again, leave out all the facts to support sky is falling agenda.

I've been a Phil defender since he got here. Nobody gives him the benefit of the doubt more than me.

But this simply isn't true.


In comment 13006130 djm said:

Quote:

Phil hasn't made one single bad move here.

On what planet is Grant a long term valuable asset? Just like Lamb is right now?

say we used most of our money on a big like Horford or whiteside and we were stuck on that second tier of SG's. I think we would all easily be talking ourselves into Lamb for 7 mill. We would love his age/upside. Again we really need a top 3pt shooter at the 2, but we might not be able to get that. Lamb can be your do everything kind of 2 guard, you know like turner but for half the price.

PG (for three years) or D league player and I had to pick, I'm picking the D League.

Jim Rome and he didnt seem to trash the trade. Thought Rose showed flashes last year. Basically questioned the fit with Melo. And although he said that Rose will obviously never be MVP rose again he could still be a very good PG for NY. Also said he thought KP could win an mvp some day.

In comment 13006137 djm said:

Quote:

And no mention that the Knicks gave up Calderon who is hot garbage making a lot of money and Lopez who also makes a lot of money. LEt's leave that part out. We also got a 2nd rounder. Again, leave out all the facts to support sky is falling agenda.

Calderon I understand. Your argument on Lopez makes no sense -- his contract was cheap for the expected production. It had positive value. We could have traded it for a #1, I believe a late lottery pick. You're fishing for justifications. Unless you believe this was really a bad contract for bad contract deal.

In comment 13006126 Deej said:

Quote:

Knicks didnt trade away valuable long term assets based on what we gave up to acquire those assets last year? Why is that a relevant fact? If the Warriors traded Draymond tomorrow for garbage, would you say "well, he was just a 2nd rounder, so not much was lost"? Fact is, in June 2016, Knicks had two long term valuable assets in Lopez and Grant. They cashed them in for 1 year of Rose. It was a win-now move for a team that isnt close to winning now.

Lopez isn't fucking Draymond Green. He's an ok player on an ok deal. He had OK value. We also dumped Calderon which people conveniently ignore. And we got the 2nd rounder AND we did in fact get an upgrade at PG in Rose.

Look, I said it 10 times by now I cautiously hoped Lopez would have more value but honestly, would the Knicks be THAT much better off if they traded Lopez for lets say the 20th pick instead of Rose? Would they even be able to deal Lopez for that much? Don't you think Phil offered Lopez around the league?

I don't love the deal but some of you are nuts with the over the top hate of this deal. At its very worst, it's harmless. At its best it's fine.

And you can check my posts all season long I always thoughtr Lopez was overrated by fans. He's an OK player who will never play better than he did last season.

And can we let this off-season shake out first before we panic about losing Lopez?

better find out

Keeps falling, that might be fun.

he was a former LOTTERY pick. And he was a throw in.

You guys forget or ignore what happens to a player's so called value once they play poorly in the NBA for even one season.

Shane Larkin...that's it. Why was he a throw in? Because everyone knew he wasn't much of a talent. He was a 2 yr vet? A former lottery pick and he missed a lot of time so many could say the jury wasn't out yet. But it was.

Grant simply didn't have the value you all think he had. He was a throw in.

In comment 13006138 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

I've been a Phil defender since he got here. Nobody gives him the benefit of the doubt more than me. But this simply isn't true. In comment 13006130 djm said: Quote: Phil hasn't made one single bad move here.

Fisher and MAYBE Chandler and I think this is a stretch. He hasn't made one bad move that hurts the long term value of the roster. And that's a fact. This trade doesn't touch the long term one bit unless you think we just dumped A future starting PG in Grant. Maybe we did, odds are we didn't.

Whatever, it's done. The Knicks won't suck for the next 5 years because of this deal contrary to what some of u may believe. As long as we agree that this deal in no way shape of form even sniffs McDyeye or Ewing for Rice we can move on. It might be a somewhat annoying deal if Rose sucks and Grant develops but it won't crush the franchise at all.

Grant also is old. Will be 24 when the season starts (only 4 years younger than Rose). Yes I know Rose has had injuries.

and got Grant last year, but for whatever reason he was far from the player he had been at ND, and I think he was drafted as a senior.

In comment 13006148 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 13006126 Deej said: Quote: Knicks didnt trade away valuable long term assets based on what we gave up to acquire those assets last year? Why is that a relevant fact? If the Warriors traded Draymond tomorrow for garbage, would you say "well, he was just a 2nd rounder, so not much was lost"? Fact is, in June 2016, Knicks had two long term valuable assets in Lopez and Grant. They cashed them in for 1 year of Rose. It was a win-now move for a team that isnt close to winning now. Lopez isn't fucking Draymond Green. He's an ok player on an ok deal. He had OK value. We also dumped Calderon which people conveniently ignore. And we got the 2nd rounder AND we did in fact get an upgrade at PG in Rose. Look, I said it 10 times by now I cautiously hoped Lopez would have more value but honestly, would the Knicks be THAT much better off if they traded Lopez for lets say the 20th pick instead of Rose? Would they even be able to deal Lopez for that much? Don't you think Phil offered Lopez around the league? I don't love the deal but some of you are nuts with the over the top hate of this deal. At its very worst, it's harmless. At its best it's fine. And you can check my posts all season long I always thoughtr Lopez was overrated by fans. He's an OK player who will never play better than he did last season. And can we let this off-season shake out first before we panic about losing Lopez?

My point wasnt Lopez = Green. It is that it is asinine to gauge a player's value based on what you gave up to acquire him 1 year ago. That's irrelevant history.

As for Lopez, as I've said, I think he's more valuable than George Hill who brought back the #12 pick. Good contract for the right term.

Dont know how you can say it is a harmless deal. Worst case scenario Rose is a bust (and in any event is probably gone after the season), we end up paying almost double to replace Lopez with a marginally better D12, and we dont have the cheap services of Grant who I expect to be a starting PG (prob league average at best) or at least a usable bench guard. Teams need that stuff.

In comment 13006130 djm said:

Quote:

is Phil Jackson knows talent. Contrary to myth, the guy didn't just stumble into close to a dozen championships. He got there by knowing what the fuck he was coaching and dealing with. It's not at all crazy to suggest that Phil deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to player evaluation. When has this guy ever fucked up with a player eval that we know of? Isn't it fair to assume Phil has a good grasp on Grant's future after seeing him play in the NBA for a year? Phil hasn't made one single bad move here. The chandler deal was meh and maybe we could have gotten more but Chandler was nearly done then and he's even closer to done now AND the trade led to signing Lopez--and that was a good move. Maybe Phil knows what he's doing? God forbid.

in terms of the game of basketball, Phil knows more than all of us combined, even including dep! None of us can question that.

But it is fair to question whether or not he knows how to to operate and maneuver within the complicated NBA CBA and salary cap, in addition to his ability to negotiate. Because the evidence so far suggests he's pretty fucking bad at all of that.

In comment 13006133 Phil in LA said:

Quote:

And Sabonis. Everyone else I like is injured or probably going top 10.

Sabonis is projected to go lottery

In comment 13006171 Enzo said:

Quote:

In comment 13006130 djm said: Quote: is Phil Jackson knows talent. Contrary to myth, the guy didn't just stumble into close to a dozen championships. He got there by knowing what the fuck he was coaching and dealing with. It's not at all crazy to suggest that Phil deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to player evaluation. When has this guy ever fucked up with a player eval that we know of? Isn't it fair to assume Phil has a good grasp on Grant's future after seeing him play in the NBA for a year? Phil hasn't made one single bad move here. The chandler deal was meh and maybe we could have gotten more but Chandler was nearly done then and he's even closer to done now AND the trade led to signing Lopez--and that was a good move. Maybe Phil knows what he's doing? God forbid. in terms of the game of basketball, Phil knows more than all of us combined, even including dep! None of us can question that. But it is fair to question whether or not he knows how to to operate and maneuver within the complicated NBA CBA and salary cap, in addition to his ability to negotiate. Because the evidence so far suggests he's pretty fucking bad at all of that.

Right. Coaching =/= talent evaluation =/= roster building acumen. Those are 3 different things.

Highest I've seen him is the end of the lottery, and I've seen him later in mocks as well.

highly critical of the Knicks but I have given this deal a tepid thumbs up but if we give Howard max money I'm out.

In comment 13006182 Phil in LA said:

Quote:

Highest I've seen him is the end of the lottery, and I've seen him later in mocks as well.

Phil,
They are all simply mocks. I just meant I can't see any realistic way the Knicks are picking high enough to draft him. Teams no longer "sell" picks and we don't have anything to trade.

In comment 13006171 Enzo said:

Quote:

In comment 13006130 djm said: Quote: is Phil Jackson knows talent. Contrary to myth, the guy didn't just stumble into close to a dozen championships. He got there by knowing what the fuck he was coaching and dealing with. It's not at all crazy to suggest that Phil deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to player evaluation. When has this guy ever fucked up with a player eval that we know of? Isn't it fair to assume Phil has a good grasp on Grant's future after seeing him play in the NBA for a year? Phil hasn't made one single bad move here. The chandler deal was meh and maybe we could have gotten more but Chandler was nearly done then and he's even closer to done now AND the trade led to signing Lopez--and that was a good move. Maybe Phil knows what he's doing? God forbid. in terms of the game of basketball, Phil knows more than all of us combined, even including dep! None of us can question that. But it is fair to question whether or not he knows how to to operate and maneuver within the complicated NBA CBA and salary cap, in addition to his ability to negotiate. Because the evidence so far suggests he's pretty fucking bad at all of that.

On please I have illustrated how the Knicks are better off today than they were before Phil got here and by a wide margin. You're being ridiculous. Pretty fucking bad? What did you expect after 2 years the show time lakers?

The KP pick alone blows your statement to bits.

I am guilty of millering this thread --it's done.

Let's see the finished product. I don't think it's a stretch to believe that the Knicks will replace Lopez rather easily and if they do, the deal for Rose won't seem to painful. Essentially it would be Grant and Calderon for Rose and the 2nd.

who pointed out all the positives so far this offseason:

We have a PG (if only for year)
We have Melo and KP
We have all of our first round picks going forward
We still have the same cap space for this summer
We have more cap space next summer (as of this moment)
We no longer have Rambis and a full-time triangle offense

I think it's ok for people to feel somewhat optimistic about improving this team.

not obsessed with Lopez but I think it's a major overstatement to suggest he will "easily" be replaced.

if we replace Lopez by giving Dwight 100/4, blech.

don't even especially want Noah but he probably represents the best chance of replacing Lopez at a "good" price.

made it sound like Phil is not interested in Howard. One article was the post, not sure the other one i read. They mentioned him not fitting the cerebral type player phil likes (although this would probably cross Whiteside off as well).

limits the loss of production, and gives Willy time to grow if they believe he can be a rotational piece. In fact, Willy would probably benefit from having both KP and Gasol on the team as he becomes better at speaking English and learning about the NBA

In comment 13006210 Italianju said:

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made it sound like Phil is not interested in Howard. One article was the post, not sure the other one i read. They mentioned him not fitting the cerebral type player phil likes (although this would probably cross Whiteside off as well).

Meh. Beggars can't be choosers. Is Rose really known to be such a high IQ player? Was Seraphin? O'Quinn? Hahn insists Phil likes Whiteside.

I was ready to take them before the Rose trade. I really think House could be a starter in the NBA. Felder may never be a starter in the league but he could be a six man of the year candidate. I like their upside more than Whitehead.

I'm not confident leaving Galloaway as Rose backup. I still don't think he is real NBA talent. When the Knicks were still in contention for a playoff spot, he was awful.

wanted to come for what they paid KOQ and Seraphin im sure we would take him. Maybe the cost combined with not loving the player makes him not interested. Basically the same reasons we dont love Howard.

As for Whiteside perhaps the upside would outweigh any IQ issues.

thing to possibly track is because we have so many open roster spots it figures that some of the better undrafted players opt to play summer ball with the Knicks.

In comment 13006187 djm said:

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On please I have illustrated how the Knicks are better off today than they were before Phil got here and by a wide margin. You're being ridiculous. Pretty fucking bad? What did you expect after 2 years the show time lakers? The KP pick alone blows your statement to bits.

of course we stumbled into the #4 pick last year by ACCIDENT when Phil's brilliant plan to contend with Calderon/Dalembert blew up in his face. Kudos to Phil for making what so far appears to be a tremendous pick, but let's not overlook that he's tried to contend for two straight seasons and both times he's failed.

I could detail the various seemingly minor details he's botched or handled incorrectly on numerous trades and contracts, but it seems most folks here either don't care or are unaware of the little things that allow you to build a sustainable winner in a capped league. Maybe that's too much to expect? I mean, we had people vehemently defending the Bargs trade the day it went down. If you're setting the bar at "he's not as bad as Isiah" then Phil has been a huge success. Unfortunately, we're not competing against prior Knick idiot GMs.

In comment 13006223 Italianju said:

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wanted to come for what they paid KOQ and Seraphin im sure we would take him. Maybe the cost combined with not loving the player makes him not interested. Basically the same reasons we dont love Howard. As for Whiteside perhaps the upside would outweigh any IQ issues.

How about our pursuit of DeAndre Jordan last year?

We saw over those great stretches the last two years. But let's not get caught up in it. He's clearly one of the lowest Bball IQ PGs in the league period. Check TOs and FG%. This dude skates off his athleticism more than anyone else in the league and that's why he hasn't been able to make the full adjustment since his injuries. He takes long range runners in the lane. I saw a stat that said he will be the highest usage Melo has played with since AI. And he averages 4.7 assists per game at that. He's also one of the most averse PGs when it comes involving big men. I'm not buying that Phil wants to build a Spurs like culture here.

In comment 13006228 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 13006223 Italianju said: Quote: wanted to come for what they paid KOQ and Seraphin im sure we would take him. Maybe the cost combined with not loving the player makes him not interested. Basically the same reasons we dont love Howard. As for Whiteside perhaps the upside would outweigh any IQ issues. How about our pursuit of DeAndre Jordan last year?

Greg Monroe and Afflalo as well

is much question that a guy like Jordan is worth the max or at least near it. But if there is a guy that you arent sure is worth the max due to age, decline, injuries, etc.. then when you add something that you dont like like crap IQ then it tilts the scales to "not interested". Of course im just guessing here.

But NBA teams reach for AA over can play every year.

The Rockets are gauging trade interest on Trevor Ariza, Patrick Beverley, and K.J. McDaniels, according to Jake Fischer of Sports Illustrated.
The Rockets will likely play a big part of the NBA Draft trade landscape and it looks like they'll try to involve Ariza, Beverley, and/or McDaniels in potential deals. While Ariza delivered top-40 value in nine-category fantasy leagues, his value could take a hit if his role is diminished on a new team.
Source: Jake Fischer on Twitter Jun 23 - 1:42 PM

im not saying he doesnt i just didnt realize that was a knock on him. And again with AA (who im not sure has a low bball IQ either) he came on a great deal (we thought). I just think if your looking at paying a guy 20 mill a year for a few seasons then you dont want him to have a trait you hate unless he makes up for it in a lot of other places. Howard doesnt really make up for it like a Jordan or even Whiteside would.

In comment 13006226 DanMetroMan said:

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thing to possibly track is because we have so many open roster spots it figures that some of the better undrafted players opt to play summer ball with the Knicks.

good point.

In comment 13006226 DanMetroMan said:

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thing to possibly track is because we have so many open roster spots it figures that some of the better undrafted players opt to play summer ball with the Knicks.

Geez Dan i said that at like 8 this morning....Get with it....lol

In comment 13006234 Phil in LA said:

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But NBA teams reach for AA over can play every year.

Sabonis has NBA skills I'd surely take him.

In comment 13006226 DanMetroMan said:

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thing to possibly track is because we have so many open roster spots it figures that some of the better undrafted players opt to play summer ball with the Knicks.

And yet we didnt make room for Ndour. Agents had to have noticed that.

In comment 13006246 Italianju said:

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In comment 13006226 DanMetroMan said: Quote: thing to possibly track is because we have so many open roster spots it figures that some of the better undrafted players opt to play summer ball with the Knicks. Geez Dan i said that at like 8 this morning....Get with it....lol

Sorry! lol But it's true. Maybe even frenchie has a shot at making the team.

In comment 13006227 Enzo said:

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In comment 13006187 djm said: Quote: On please I have illustrated how the Knicks are better off today than they were before Phil got here and by a wide margin. You're being ridiculous. Pretty fucking bad? What did you expect after 2 years the show time lakers? The KP pick alone blows your statement to bits. of course we stumbled into the #4 pick last year by ACCIDENT when Phil's brilliant plan to contend with Calderon/Dalembert blew up in his face. Kudos to Phil for making what so far appears to be a tremendous pick, but let's not overlook that he's tried to contend for two straight seasons and both times he's failed. I could detail the various seemingly minor details he's botched or handled incorrectly on numerous trades and contracts, but it seems most folks here either don't care or are unaware of the little things that allow you to build a sustainable winner in a capped league. Maybe that's too much to expect? I mean, we had people vehemently defending the Bargs trade the day it went down. If you're setting the bar at "he's not as bad as Isiah" then Phil has been a huge success. Unfortunately, we're not competing against prior Knick idiot GMs.

We have a first round pick again next year. What don't you understand about trading a solid player in Lopez for a high risk player in Rose? He did the same thing with Chandler. That Dalembert/Calderon with Chandler wins a lot more games and we don't get KP.

Rose could continue to improve from his positive arc last year and put us maybe into the 2nd round of the playoffs. (Proving this core can win with a PG) Or he gets injured again and we get a high draft pick and another young talent to pair with KP, Melo and lots of cap space.

Rose provides us with higher win volatility which is actually good for us this year. Lopez was great when we were trying to have the highest floor because we had no draft picks. Above all, he does make us more attractive to free agents. There are tons of options for FA PGs next year and few this year, and there are plenty of C options this year. There is logic to this move. I said this yesterday, it could still prove to be a bad deal but there are two many unknown variables today for anyone to say it's stupid.

In comment 13006239 Italianju said:

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im not saying he doesnt i just didnt realize that was a knock on him. And again with AA (who im not sure has a low bball IQ either) he came on a great deal (we thought). I just think if your looking at paying a guy 20 mill a year for a few seasons then you dont want him to have a trait you hate unless he makes up for it in a lot of other places. Howard doesnt really make up for it like a Jordan or even Whiteside would.

Monroe's IQ isn't an issue I believe. The knock with him is that he's a tough player to build around in the modern NBA.

He's a terrific post player and pretty good rebounder, and solid passer but not a tremendous defender and has very little to no range if I recall correctly.

Having a laterally slow, non-shot blocking (career 0.6 BPG), no range big-man is not a good fit for the NBA today regardless of how good of a post player and passer he is.

In comment 13006249 Deej said:

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In comment 13006226 DanMetroMan said: Quote: thing to possibly track is because we have so many open roster spots it figures that some of the better undrafted players opt to play summer ball with the Knicks. And yet we didnt make room for Ndour. Agents had to have noticed that.

Gotta think fringe NBA prospects (aka undrafted) worry about available roster spots on a team/chance to show it vs. what happened with one guy who ended up in Europe.

Some of us nuts will be watching and looking through the scrap heaps. We all can disagree but we all love our Knicks and are passionate about it.

hopefully roster spots, star players, and being NY can maybe give us a leg up on some other teams.

Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account
‏@WojVerticalNBA
Brooklyn has traded forward Thad Young to the Indiana Pacers for the 20th pick and a future 2nd rounder, league sources tell @TheVertical.

everyones opinion on Bradley Beal for the Knicks?

And how it went down. Jeanie Buss killed Howard. I know none of that is suppose to impact Phil's decision making as Knicks president but you have to be kidding yourself if you don't think they haven't privately talked about Dwight.

In comment 13006263 DanMetroMan said:

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Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account ‏@WojVerticalNBA Brooklyn has traded forward Thad Young to the Indiana Pacers for the 20th pick and a future 2nd rounder, league sources tell @TheVertical.

Marks making moves.

RealGM ‏@RealGM 4m4 minutes ago
76ers Have Been Conducting 'Due Diligence' On Ricky Rubio:

In comment 13006264 Giantfootball025 said:

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everyones opinion on Bradley Beal for the Knicks?

Too risky given likely contract. And Wash will probably match.

In comment 13006263 DanMetroMan said:

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Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account ‏@WojVerticalNBA Brooklyn has traded forward Thad Young to the Indiana Pacers for the 20th pick and a future 2nd rounder, league sources tell @TheVertical.

they going to take the seton hall kid i guess. they should have gotten more given george hill fetched a 12.

Better than Hill. Less than 5 hrs. Stuff should be heating up.

In comment 13006263 DanMetroMan said:

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Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account ‏@WojVerticalNBA Brooklyn has traded forward Thad Young to the Indiana Pacers for the 20th pick and a future 2nd rounder, league sources tell @TheVertical.

I would have figured Young could have gotten them more than that. Not a lot more, but something better than #20.

a potential cancer in Howard. There's a natural fit and he's a positive influence.

by the stink of abject losing. Minny, Bk, Philly. Losers.

Also, cant compare him to Hill. Thad has a long term contract for real $$

In comment 13006264 Giantfootball025 said:

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everyones opinion on Bradley Beal for the Knicks?

I go to school in DC so have been following the story with him last few years. Basically team/fan has a love-hate relationship. Super talented but crazy amount of injuries (and very debilitating ones).

I think it's too risky especially with Rose and Melo already on the roster with concerns of their own.

Quote:

It is unclear at this point if the Knicks will get a meeting with Durant and Rich Kleiman, his Roc Nation Sports agent. But acquiring the 27-year-old Rose in a trade may have helped their cause. People familiar with Durant's thinking told ESPN.com last month that the Knicks would need to upgrade their backcourt to be considered in free agency. They accomplished that on Wednesday in trading for Rose.

Link - ( New Window )

spoke to someone

-TONS of NBA chatter right now. Expect many, many trades

-Philly very active, talking to "everyone"

-Rockets trying to package their "extras" for players who stock is perceived to be down. Offered Ariza and Beverly for Noel.

and apparently i have said that before since as soon as i started to type in "major" chrome filled in the rest for me. I live in DC and Beal is just way too much of a risk based on what he is going to get paid.

on Beal. Will need a megadeal to steal him and chronic leg issue.

I'd take him top 5, but this a flat draft with the perception of that level as below red chip. My guess is that teams will reach for AA big time and the know how to plays could be pushed back where we might have a shot.

In comment 13006271 DanMetroMan said:

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RealGM ‏@RealGM 4m4 minutes ago 76ers Have Been Conducting 'Due Diligence' On Ricky Rubio:

Rubio, Simmons, Noel.... now theres a 3 point contest to watch!

for a mill

In comment 13006310 Phil in LA said:

Quote:

I'd take him top 5, but this a flat draft with the perception of that level as below red chip. My guess is that teams will reach for AA big time and the know how to plays could be pushed back where we might have a shot.

Too lazy to recheck the quote but Frascilla said something like pick 15-40 has similar caliber prospects. Outside of the top 3-4 guys you have a TON of similar talents.

when Durant signs here?

at #3. The real player of value there seems to be Dunn who happens to play a position which the Celtics have in bundles. If Ainge thinks that the Sixers are dealing from a position of weakness with their logjam of centers then what will his leverage be with their logjam of guards? If Ainge passes on Dunn then the negotiation may be easier with Phoenix or otherwise.

I'd love to land KD but a Melo/KD/Porzi frontcourt would get annihilated defensively. Seems like an awkward fit.

I actually think Dwight would slot in there better "fit" wise in all seriousness but I doubt it's worth the headache.

a Noel/Rubio swap makes too much sense for both teams?

Melo is not a bad defender, just intentionally inconsistent. That team should cruise to the playoffs, and in the playoffs I'd expect Melo to dial in.

In any event you just need a few good defensive anchors. Curry isnt a good defender. Thompson developed into a strong one (likely overrated at this point -- he's very effective but some of that IMO is just good team D and commitment all around; not a knock on him).

Kawhai out for the Olympics.

Team has a lot of 3's. My guess will be..

Lowry/Irving
Thompson/Derozan
Durant/Butler
Green/Melo
Cousins

Derozan and 1 more. Kyrie and Klay havent confimed yet.

In comment 13006347 Jon in NYC said:

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when Durant signs here?

Hmmm:

Rose
X
Durant
Melo
Porzingis

In comment 13006376 Anakim said:

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In comment 13006347 Jon in NYC said: Quote: when Durant signs here? Hmmm: Rose X Durant Melo Porzingis

X= Sasha Vujacic

LegionNBA ‏@MySportsLegion
The Celtics and Bucks are discussing a trade that would involve Khris Middleton and Greg Monroe heading to Boston. (via @GeryWoelfel)

In comment 13006362 Deej said:

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Melo is not a bad defender, just intentionally inconsistent. That team should cruise to the playoffs, and in the playoffs I'd expect Melo to dial in. In any event you just need a few good defensive anchors. Curry isnt a good defender. Thompson developed into a strong one (likely overrated at this point -- he's very effective but some of that IMO is just good team D and commitment all around; not a knock on him).

I'm a tough critic of Melo but if you notice in big spots/big matchups he does tend to play significantly better defense (note his games vs. Kobe). So I agree, in a big playoff series I suspect his defense would be solid.

In comment 13006393 Anakim said:

Quote:

LegionNBA ‏@MySportsLegion The Celtics and Bucks are discussing a trade that would involve Khris Middleton and Greg Monroe heading to Boston. (via @GeryWoelfel)

Wonder what would be going back. No 3?

In comment 13006397 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

In comment 13006393 Anakim said: Quote: LegionNBA ‏@MySportsLegion The Celtics and Bucks are discussing a trade that would involve Khris Middleton and Greg Monroe heading to Boston. (via @GeryWoelfel) Wonder what would be going back. No 3?

plus-plus I think

NBA Central ‏@TheNBACentral
The Rockets offered a package deal involving Trevor Ariza and Patrick Beverly to the 76ers for Nerlens Noel. (via @JakeLFischer)

Im not defending Melo there. He takes too easy on D too many nights. More than is necessary to "save energy". But the key is it's intentional I think. So he can dial in as needed. Also, Melo as a 2nd or 3rd option I think needs a lot less energy on the offensive end, so he can commit more on D. And play fewer minutes generally.

Maybe it's all just wishful thinking tho

Middleton/Monroe story link.

Does this seem legit to you? A "Racine Journal Times Columnist + WSSP 1250 Basketball Insider" is scooping everyone else?

Look, as a Celtics fan, if we're trading 16, 23 and a player for that, I'm all for it. But there's no way it's legit.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13006408 Pego61 said:

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Middleton/Monroe story link. Does this seem legit to you? A "Racine Journal Times Columnist + WSSP 1250 Basketball Insider" is scooping everyone else? Look, as a Celtics fan, if we're trading 16, 23 and a player for that, I'm all for it. But there's no way it's legit. Link - ( New Window )

Unless the Celts are trading for Boogie and then Boogie is the player foinf with 16 and 23, that's nonsense. Mid-late #1s this year appear to have little value in trades.

In comment 13006397 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

In comment 13006393 Anakim said: Quote: LegionNBA ‏@MySportsLegion The Celtics and Bucks are discussing a trade that would involve Khris Middleton and Greg Monroe heading to Boston. (via @GeryWoelfel) Wonder what would be going back. No 3?

Bradley or Smart and number 3.

Knicks going after Durant with Jackson apparently informing Rose we will make a strong push for him.

Acquiring the 27-year-old Rose in a trade may have helped their cause. People familiar with Durant's thinking told ESPN.com last month that the Knicks would need to upgrade their back-court to be considered in free agency. They accomplished that on Wednesday in trading for Rose.

Jamal CrawfordVerified account ‏@JCrossover 20h20 hours ago
Drose to NY?! Hmmm. Gonna be an interesting summer!

Alan Hahn on his show this afternoon.
First words out of his mouth.
Said he spoke to people who said Durant is intrigued and wants to meet with Knicks.
Said other FA around the league are intrigued as well, mentioned he was texting back and forth a FA with multiple awards (pretty sure it was Crawford) who was now intrigued by the Knicks situation

Woelful is actually pretty good.

if Rose leads to Durant signing here, I'll admit my error and that I'm being a big baby about the trade.

because 36 year old Jamal Crawford wants to be here. Guys in his state of being should be looking for work in a place where they can win their ring and retire.

In comment 13006434 Coach Mason said:

Quote:

Alan Hahn on his show this afternoon. First words out of his mouth. Said he spoke to people who said Durant is intrigued and wants to meet with Knicks. Said other FA around the league are intrigued as well, mentioned he was texting back and forth a FA with multiple awards (pretty sure it was Crawford) who was now intrigued by the Knicks situation

Thing about NBA players is that they're generally terrible at acknowledging the decline of star players. Hence people thinking Kobe was a top player to the end. That cognitive dissonance should help with Melo and Rose -- two superstars!

In comment 13006437 Deej said:

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if Rose leads to Durant signing here, I'll admit my error and that I'm being a big baby about the trade.

I anyone is worried about what Deej from BBI said about a Rose deal on the heels of Kevin Durant signing with the Knicks then they don't have their priorities straight lol

Melo can be a passable defender when he needs to be, I just would worry about those 3 down low.

The way the NBA is evolving though couldn't we realistically play Durant as kind of a swing 2 and put a big on the court to play the 5 with KP at the 4 and Melo the 3?

gets us durant its like the greatest trade ever. I mean its nice that we are in the conversation, but id still be beyond shocked if we got him.

In comment 13006448 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

Melo can be a passable defender when he needs to be, I just would worry about those 3 down low. The way the NBA is evolving though couldn't we realistically play Durant as kind of a swing 2 and put a big on the court to play the 5 with KP at the 4 and Melo the 3?

All kidding aside I think they would make it work. I mean say we played the Warriors, those games would be shoot outs any way you slice it. The Cavs are NBA champions but it's not as if they have 3 great offensive players that would be able to exploit the Knicks "bad" defensive trio.

it would depend who you are playing. If you are playing with a team that has anything resembling a slashing 2 guard you couldnt put durant on him. That said the SG position in the nba isnt amazing right now so there could be times you could maybe get away with it for short spurts. I think it would def be an issue, but i also think that KP will be a bit of an eraser on D. His shot blocking ability/timing for a rookie was very impressive.

unless you have two elite wing defenders you are going to be in trouble when we have melo/durant. Not to mention your big getting pulled out of the paint to guard KP at the 3 pt line (not that i want KP living out there, but at times sure).

Load, and drive the UHall all the way to OKC for KD.

an elite defender to play the 2 who cant do anything else. That kind of guy never gets paid and with Rose, Melo, Durant, and KP you dont need more offense. Sure a 3 and D guy would be nice, but if all we could afford would be the D then so be it.

The Oklahoma City Thunder are shopping Serge Ibaka in trade scenarios on draft day.

Ibaka will be an unrestricted free agent in 2017.

MARC J. SPEARS/THE UNDEFEATED

TAGS: SERGE IBAKA, OKLAHOMA CITY THUNDER, NBA, NBA TRADE RUMOR, NBA MISC RUMOR

for the pic from Melo with him and Rose sitting at a bar with an empty sit between them?????

would make a KD departure more likely (or signal KD has already said he's maybe/probably leaving).

That's true. I'm absolutely all for Durant (though I'm sure this is just wishful thinking in the end), I would never worry about fit so much that I'd pass on adding an elite player. Just kind of piecing it together and how it would work in my head.

Ibaka's play has declined the past 2 years. Only 26 but notable. Knicks don't have any chips to land him though #Knicks

and what kind of relationship he has with Durant. You gotta think that OKC wouldnt do anything that would lower there chances of keeping Durant though.

In comment 13006443 Deej said:

Quote:

In comment 13006434 Coach Mason said: Quote: Alan Hahn on his show this afternoon. First words out of his mouth. Said he spoke to people who said Durant is intrigued and wants to meet with Knicks. Said other FA around the league are intrigued as well, mentioned he was texting back and forth a FA with multiple awards (pretty sure it was Crawford) who was now intrigued by the Knicks situation Thing about NBA players is that they're generally terrible at acknowledging the decline of star players. Hence people thinking Kobe was a top player to the end. That cognitive dissonance should help with Melo and Rose -- two superstars!

If you somehow land Durant, You have two 'more healthy'stars in Durant and KP and two that have battled some issues in Rose and Melo. But even Rose and Melo are not too old age -wise and minutes can be monitored a bit with a good rotation of star players around them.

But I simply don't see how Durant and Melo coexist. I would rather play the year out with Rose, let him earn a contract, and then make the big push for Russell Westbrook.

don't see any possible way the Knicks could land Ibaka. We have absolutely nothing to trade. Hernangomez isn't landing you Serge Ibaka.

Durant no matter what cost, but what does that leave is just vet mins for the rest of the roster, do we get mid level and mini mid level of we are at the full cap?

#Knicks

.

In comment 13006512 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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.

Not without tearing an ACL

1997 the Bulls were going to trade Pippen for McGrady but Jordan "vetoed" it. GM Jordan was wack son.

In comment 13006513 Deej said:

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In comment 13006512 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: . Not without tearing an ACL

Bastard 😂

In comment 13006415 dep026 said:

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In comment 13006397 Jon in NYC said: Quote: In comment 13006393 Anakim said: Quote: LegionNBA ‏@MySportsLegion The Celtics and Bucks are discussing a trade that would involve Khris Middleton and Greg Monroe heading to Boston. (via @GeryWoelfel) Wonder what would be going back. No 3? Bradley or Smart and number 3.

Gross.Danny should be fired if he did that.

In comment 13006514 DanMetroMan said:

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1997 the Bulls were going to trade Pippen for McGrady but Jordan "vetoed" it. GM Jordan was wack son.

And they probably have only 5 rings instead of 6. Nothing wrong vetoing that trade.

for the #2 pick being discussed.

In comment 13006521 dep026 said:

Quote:

In comment 13006514 DanMetroMan said: Quote: 1997 the Bulls were going to trade Pippen for McGrady but Jordan "vetoed" it. GM Jordan was wack son. And they probably have only 5 rings instead of 6. Nothing wrong vetoing that trade.

Pippen left the Bulls after the season. That move set the Bulls back. Jordan and Tmac could have been nasty for years to come.

In comment 13006476 Italianju said:

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for the pic from Melo with him and Rose sitting at a bar with an empty sit between them?????

Oh how sweet that would be...until Evan Turner winds up filling it.

believe Butler is available. "Multiple" offers on the table. Orlando thinks they are in the drivers seat. I wonder what they are offering?

I can't take the curse of that number anymore. This is a good sign.

In comment 13006496 chopperhatch said:

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But I simply don't see how Durant and Melo coexist. I would rather play the year out with Rose, let him earn a contract, and then make the big push for Russell Westbrook.

But two ball dominant combo guards can co-exist? You're a special kind of stupid.

to Minnesota being discussed. OKC would receive #5

filling out their roster with ring chasers if they signed Durant. You people that are complaining about fit are insane. Signing Durant gives us a better shot at the title than all the other plans anyone can think of. Just stop with the nit picking

In comment 13006532 DanMetroMan said:

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believe Butler is available. "Multiple" offers on the table. Orlando thinks they are in the drivers seat. I wonder what they are offering?

Oladipo and something right?

For Butler and chi first (#15?)

In comment 13006526 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13006521 dep026 said: Quote: In comment 13006514 DanMetroMan said: Quote: 1997 the Bulls were going to trade Pippen for McGrady but Jordan "vetoed" it. GM Jordan was wack son. And they probably have only 5 rings instead of 6. Nothing wrong vetoing that trade. Pippen left the Bulls after the season. That move set the Bulls back. Jordan and Tmac could have been nasty for years to come.

They would not have won in that final series and Jordan wasnt coming back, even with a high schooler who flashed potential.

Curse? Who wore #1 for the Knicks?

Fragile ass amare

In comment 13006541 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

to Minnesota being discussed. OKC would receive #5

That trade makes a lot of sense for Minnesota if they can resign

they have more assets than they can use. They need to spend 5 quarters to get a dollar player.

Turning into Danny Ainge.

In comment 13006558 melojeteli4 said:

Quote:

Curse? Who wore #1 for the Knicks?

Penny. Steve Francis. Amare.

apparently think Gasol will choose between the Spurs and Knicks.

Butler to the Lakers for Ingram seems to be picking up steam. Chicago completely blowing it up?

In comment 13006448 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

Melo can be a passable defender when he needs to be, I just would worry about those 3 down low. The way the NBA is evolving though couldn't we realistically play Durant as kind of a swing 2 and put a big on the court to play the 5 with KP at the 4 and Melo the 3?

I think that would work. Plus, it would allow the Knicks to always have either Melo or Durant on the floor.

Also, if you can sign Durant, you do it and worry about how it all fits together later.

apparently the math works out to a 14 million dollar contract from last year being worth about 10 under the new cap.

For all those clamoring about Rose and how that trade doesn't help us in the long term. Gasol just adds fuel to that fire.

Unless Jackson is looking to build to win now, it doesn't make sense.

In comment 13006585 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

apparently think Gasol will choose between the Spurs and Knicks.

That's good if true. Because Spurs definitely won't overpay. That's my big worry with Gasol that some team offers some ridiculous contract that it would be foolish for the Knicks to match.

In comment 13006496 chopperhatch said:

Quote:

But I simply don't see how Durant and Melo coexist. I would rather play the year out with Rose, let him earn a contract, and then make the big push for Russell Westbrook.

You are seriously arguing that you would not sign Durant if he wanted to come here because it is better to wait for Westbrook?

obviously the wheels can fall off, but his game appears to be aging well.

In comment 13006564 Deej said:

Quote:

they have more assets than they can use. They need to spend 5 quarters to get a dollar player.

You think if Butler is a real option for them, they could potentially do a deal of both Oladipo and Fournier S&T? The numbers would work out I think.

In comment 13006613 Deej said:

Quote:

obviously the wheels can fall off, but his game appears to be aging well.

Gasol on a two-year deal is an utter no brainer. The problem is if he wants a longer deal.

i would be very surprised if linsanity did not end up a net.

In comment 13006614 Aspano! said:

Quote:

In comment 13006564 Deej said: Quote: they have more assets than they can use. They need to spend 5 quarters to get a dollar player. You think if Butler is a real option for them, they could potentially do a deal of both Oladipo and Fournier S&T? The numbers would work out I think.

I think Chicago would want Hez over Fournier. cost control. Also, easier to Google Hez.

In comment 13006479 Deej said:

Quote:

would make a KD departure more likely (or signal KD has already said he's maybe/probably leaving).

I don't see why it would make a KD departure more likely. He has regressed and they would open up his money to do something else.

In comment 13006610 Vanzetti said:

Quote:

In comment 13006496 chopperhatch said: Quote: But I simply don't see how Durant and Melo coexist. I would rather play the year out with Rose, let him earn a contract, and then make the big push for Russell Westbrook. You are seriously arguing that you would not sign Durant if he wanted to come here because it is better to wait for Westbrook?

He's one of the dumbest pieces of shit on this entire board. That's why.

In comment 13006634 JoeMoney19 said:

Quote:

In comment 13006479 Deej said: Quote: would make a KD departure more likely (or signal KD has already said he's maybe/probably leaving). I don't see why it would make a KD departure more likely. He has regressed and they would open up his money to do something else.

You dont want money this offseason. You want guys on old deals. Ibaka makes 12. Afflalo might get 12 in this market. More likely is that they get a pick and give Ibaka's money to Adams.

In comment 13006635 David in LA said:

Quote:

In comment 13006610 Vanzetti said: Quote: In comment 13006496 chopperhatch said: Quote: But I simply don't see how Durant and Melo coexist. I would rather play the year out with Rose, let him earn a contract, and then make the big push for Russell Westbrook. You are seriously arguing that you would not sign Durant if he wanted to come here because it is better to wait for Westbrook? He's one of the dumbest pieces of shit on this entire board. That's why.

Lmao. Tell us how you really feel.

Would love if the Knicks went ahead and signed him. Get him and Pau and I'm done with the offseason.

in the thread. Good to have some clarification:

Quote:

Tommy Beer ‏@TommyBeer 28m28 minutes ago Knicks sent $100k to Orlando last July in O'Quinn deal, which means NY has $3.3 million to pay for a draft pick tonight

Couldn't they just wait until July one to make the deal official.

The Dallas Mavericks expect to be granted a meeting in the opening hours of free agency with Miami Heat center Hassan Whiteside, one of their two primary targets this summer, sources told ESPN.com.

Memphis Grizzlies point guard Mike Conley is the other top target for the Mavs, according to sources, as Dallas attempts to construct a core that will allow the franchise to be competitive during Dirk Nowitzki's twilight and beyond.

or not??

Woj just said Hernangomez plans to join the Knicks this season.

In comment 13006671 Italianju said:

Quote:

Couldn't they just wait until July one to make the deal official.

good question. Could be that if you wait until the new league year there are cap implications, i.e. you're acquiring a player and not a pick. Although that won't be an issue for most teams this summer.

In comment 13006693 blueblood said:

Quote:

or not??

Sounds likely but they cant negotiate until 7/7 or 7/9. Any earlier statement would indicate tampering.

In comment 13006693 blueblood said:

Quote:

or not??

Nothing can be done officially until July 1, but it seems certain he's on his way. Mills indicated as much on the recent MSG show introducing Hornacek, and reports surfaced a few weeks ago that a four-year deal was on the table. Sucks that he might not make it in time for Summer League, but we'll see.

Then there's no chance at Summer League. My mistake.

In comment 13006736 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

Quote:

Quote: @IanBegley Phil Jackson says he anticipates re-signing free agents Lance Thomas and Langston Galloway.

Good. Both are cheap, young and good.

I present, Gilbert Arenas.
Link - ( New Window )

of Porz playing the 5.

Hornacek on needs for FA: "The 2 guard, with Arron opting out. And obviously without Robin, we need a center."

In comment 13006740 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

In comment 13006736 LawrenceTaylor56 said: Quote: Quote: @IanBegley Phil Jackson says he anticipates re-signing free agents Lance Thomas and Langston Galloway. Good. Both are cheap, young and good.

hopefully cheap. Worried about Lance.

Off Durant? Anyone know if they are close?

In comment 13006915 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

Off Durant? Anyone know if they are close?

They just got Victor Oladipo for nothing. He can't be that pissed.

In comment 13006915 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

Off Durant? Anyone know if they are close?

Supposedly it ibaka was Durant mom favorite player but who knows lol..

People are also saying rose and Durant are close, really I don't think anyone knows...

I am surprised they traded ibaka though

Murray, Davis and Skal are guys id certainly take

worthless at Kentucky last year, that it's hard for me to get excited about trying to get him. I know it's about his upside, but it's still a tough pill to swallow.

In comment 13006635 David in LA said:

Quote:

In comment 13006610 Vanzetti said: Quote: In comment 13006496 chopperhatch said: Quote: But I simply don't see how Durant and Melo coexist. I would rather play the year out with Rose, let him earn a contract, and then make the big push for Russell Westbrook. You are seriously arguing that you would not sign Durant if he wanted to come here because it is better to wait for Westbrook? He's one of the dumbest pieces of shit on this entire board. That's why.

Yea I'm dumb. Go fleece some old woman out of her joolz you fucking coward. Lol.

Yes me wanting Westbrook more than Durant because having Durant and Melo on the floor at the same time makes me fucking dumb. How did that work out with Amaro and Melo, huh ding dong?

In comment 13007107 chopperhatch said:

Quote:

In comment 13006635 David in LA said: Quote: In comment 13006610 Vanzetti said: Quote: In comment 13006496 chopperhatch said: Quote: But I simply don't see how Durant and Melo coexist. I would rather play the year out with Rose, let him earn a contract, and then make the big push for Russell Westbrook. You are seriously arguing that you would not sign Durant if he wanted to come here because it is better to wait for Westbrook? He's one of the dumbest pieces of shit on this entire board. That's why. Yea I'm dumb. Go fleece some old woman out of her joolz you fucking coward. Lol. Yes me wanting Westbrook more than Durant because having Durant and Melo on the floor at the same time makes me fucking dumb. How did that work out with Amaro and Melo, huh ding dong?

Obviously Amare

Google keyboard's auto correct is nuts.

Seriously David, nobody likes you.

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojVerticalNBA
Sources: Wichita State's Ron Baker has agreed to a partially guaranteed 1-year deal with the New York Knicks. Baker was undrafted tonight.

We got zero. What are the Celtics going to do with 8 picks? Europe isn't big enough to stash the surplus.

Maybe we buy a drafted player after the draft is over.

In comment 13007115 Anakim said:

Quote:

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojVerticalNBA Sources: Wichita State's Ron Baker has agreed to a partially guaranteed 1-year deal with the New York Knicks. Baker was undrafted tonight.

from the Wichita paper on Baker, who is 6'4" and 220:

Baker knows he is a possible second-round pick. That�s a wide range and Thursday could end with him drafted or not, and it might not matter much to his NBA future. Regardless of how he gets there, his summer will almost certainly include a trip to one or more of the NBA�s summer leagues and, perhaps, an invitation to an NBA training camp. By the early fall, his future in the NBA, overseas or in the NBA Development League should become clear.

There are scenarios in which he is better off drafted � proof a team sees a fit for his talents � and scenarios where he is better off overlooked on Thursday, allowing him to choose his team. A team could draft him in the second round and ask him to play a year overseas. Baker will watch Thursday�s draft in Kansas City with his family.

�You want to make sure you put yourself in the best fit for you,� Baker said. �Everybody�s got their own route as far as making it to the NBA. Sometimes, unfortunately, it�s not going straight from college to the NBA.�

Baker said he feels good about his workouts, particularly in Dallas (pick No. 46) and Detroit (No. 49) and two with Milwaukee (the Bucks own picks No. 36 and No. 38). The hectic pace of travel and workouts allowed him to showcase his fitness level. He said he believes he showcased his defensive abilities and smarts in the workouts and the NBA Combine in Chicago in May.

�I definitely felt like I was in better shape than most kids,� he said. �Most of these workouts are in 3-on-3 settings, so being a vocal defensive player and knowing positioning on the court is very important.�

Neither NBADraft.net nor DraftExpress lists Baker in their mock drafts. Gary Parrish of CBSSports.com slots him No. 56 to Denver. Sam Vecenie of CBSSports.com compares him to former Kansas star Kirk Hinrich, who finished his 13th NBA season with Atlanta.

�When you think of Ron in college, you think of him a lot as a (shooting guard), next to Fred VanVleet,� Vecenie said. �In the NBA, I kind of see him a little bit more as a defensive-minded (point guard) who can really shoot the ball, who can move the ball well and maybe play next to a more dominant, ball-handling (shooting guard). He�s a great, long, rangy defender.�

Rationally. There are a lot of UDFA's who are likely as good or bad as 45 of the ones who were just drafted.

In comment 13007125 Phil in LA said:

Quote:

Rationally. There are a lot of UDFA's who are likely as good or bad as 45 of the ones who were just drafted.

yeah - per Begley @ ESPN:

"The Knicks elected not to buy a second-round pick. It seems like there are plenty of talented players that went undrafted -- including Gary Payton II, Dorian Finney-Smith, Yogi Ferrell and Troy Williams -- so the Knicks can sign these players as undrafted free agents without having to spend more than $2 million on the pick. Still, the Knicks have only five players under contract, so they'll have plenty of rosters spots to fill in the coming weeks."

but the only recent time that it worked out that way for the Knicks was Galloway. And the scouting reports I have seen on a large number of the players who went in the first half of the second round were pretty intriguing.

Btw, I wonder if they re-sign Early. They certainly have room.

In comment 13007127 Del Shofner said:

Quote:

In comment 13007125 Phil in LA said: Quote: Rationally. There are a lot of UDFA's who are likely as good or bad as 45 of the ones who were just drafted. yeah - per Begley @ ESPN: "The Knicks elected not to buy a second-round pick. It seems like there are plenty of talented players that went undrafted -- including Gary Payton II, Dorian Finney-Smith, Yogi Ferrell and Troy Williams -- so the Knicks can sign these players as undrafted free agents without having to spend more than $2 million on the pick. Still, the Knicks have only five players under contract, so they'll have plenty of rosters spots to fill in the coming weeks."

Payton signed a three year deal with the Rockets

we have Melo, KP, Rose, Holiday and O'Quinn under contract, and you can probably throw in Hernangomez. Phil said tonight that he expects to be able to re-sign Lance and Langston. Should be some spots available for Ron Baker and some other Summer Leaguers. We have a LONG way to go.

Can shoot.
Lonk - ( New Window )

In comment 13007135 colin said:

Quote:

Can shoot. Lonk - ( New Window )

reading up on Baker, he seems to be somewhat in the mold that Hornacek was as a player - relatively tall combo guard who can shoot and defend.

He shoots them from way down town. Looks like he prepared himself for the NBA, from where he was launching them.

In comment 13007137 Del Shofner said:

Quote:

In comment 13007135 colin said: Quote: Can shoot. Lonk - ( New Window ) reading up on Baker, he seems to be somewhat in the mold that Hornacek was as a player - relatively tall combo guard who can shoot and defend.

But isnt very good at either. Also there are some reasons to believe he'll struggle defensively against NBA athletes -- he's got a lateral quickness knock.

Im glad to sign guys, and would sign more. But there is a reason he was undrafted in a draft where it seems now one wanted any of the players taken after the lottery.

underwhelming night.

Baker looks interesting and has some range to his game. But, whatever.

Put him in the mix for Safety for the Giants.

do like Gary Payton II. He is athletic and can defend. He actually reminds me a bit of Fisher.

I think it's a lock he signs with new york...hopefully signs for enough to make him happy but less enough so knicks still have the max

In comment 13007340 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

I think it's a lock he signs with new york...hopefully signs for enough to make him happy but less enough so knicks still have the max

I want Noah before Pau, but Noah might want quite a bit of cash. I just feel like Pau is very, very close to finished.

Could we feasibly land Noah and still have room for KD? I don't even bother trying to get knee deep in the NBA cap stuff, it makes my fucking head spin.

In comment 13007362 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

Could we feasibly land Noah and still have room for KD? I don't even bother trying to get knee deep in the NBA cap stuff, it makes my fucking head spin.

Assuming Noah is in the 8-12M range, yes.

Thanks, Bosh.

In comment 13007134 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

we have Melo, KP, Rose, Holiday and O'Quinn under contract, and you can probably throw in Hernangomez. Phil said tonight that he expects to be able to re-sign Lance and Langston. Should be some spots available for Ron Baker and some other Summer Leaguers. We have a LONG way to go.

the back end of this roster is going to be a tire fire.

In comment 13007373 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

In comment 13007362 arcarsenal said: Quote: Could we feasibly land Noah and still have room for KD? I don't even bother trying to get knee deep in the NBA cap stuff, it makes my fucking head spin. Assuming Noah is in the 8-12M range, yes.

Noah's gonna take less than RoLo?

In comment 13007381 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

Thanks, Bosh.

In comment 13007391 Heisenberg said:

Quote:

In comment 13007373 Jon in NYC said: Quote: In comment 13007362 arcarsenal said: Quote: Could we feasibly land Noah and still have room for KD? I don't even bother trying to get knee deep in the NBA cap stuff, it makes my fucking head spin. Assuming Noah is in the 8-12M range, yes. Noah's gonna take less than RoLo?

Older, more injury prone, hometown discount.

In comment 13007342 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

In comment 13007340 nygiants16 said: Quote: I think it's a lock he signs with new york...hopefully signs for enough to make him happy but less enough so knicks still have the max I want Noah before Pau, but Noah might want quite a bit of cash. I just feel like Pau is very, very close to finished.

Same here, would rather keep the defense strong.

In comment 13007399 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

In comment 13007391 Heisenberg said: Quote: In comment 13007373 Jon in NYC said: Quote: In comment 13007362 arcarsenal said: Quote: Could we feasibly land Noah and still have room for KD? I don't even bother trying to get knee deep in the NBA cap stuff, it makes my fucking head spin. Assuming Noah is in the 8-12M range, yes. Noah's gonna take less than RoLo? Older, more injury prone, hometown discount.

First two, yes. The last? maybe not - hometown discounts aren't super common. Given KP, Rose and Melo, Noah is the perfect type of player for Center.

is that he's never really cashed in on a big nba contract, whereas Gasol was maxed two times.

In comment 13007396 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

In comment 13007381 arcarsenal said: Quote: Thanks, Bosh.

That gif cracks me up. Not so much for Bosh,but it reminded me thatLeBron used to wear that headband ALL the time. And denied he had plugs. Suddenly. Hairlines back, but the headband isn't.

the hometown discount is a stretch. But Noah is on the back 9 of his career, and the injuries are a very real issue.

In comment 13007125 Phil in LA said:

Quote:

Rationally. There are a lot of UDFA's who are likely as good or bad as 45 of the ones who were just drafted.

WTF? You get a certain amount of cash to include each year in trades. After the league year is up, that money is gone and you start over the next "year" - which is next week. Not buying a pick last night doesn't make any sense.

In comment 13007410 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

Noah is on the back 9 of his career, and the injuries are a very real issue.

those are reasons for him to look to get paid as much as possible.

In comment 13007415 Enzo said:

Quote:

In comment 13007125 Phil in LA said: Quote: Rationally. There are a lot of UDFA's who are likely as good or bad as 45 of the ones who were just drafted. WTF? You get a certain amount of cash to include each year in trades. After the league year is up, that money is gone and you start over the next "year" - which is next week. Not buying a pick last night doesn't make any sense.

Only if it's not YOUR 3 million dollars.

Of 10 mill. He is just too injury prone to give a big deal to. I think the Knicks can get in the ball park of what others are offering and then hopefully with rose, Melo, and it being his hometown it's enough. A healthy Noah and KP is a very strong defensive front court.

In comment 13007408 Shecky said:

Quote:

In comment 13007396 Jon in NYC said: Quote: In comment 13007381 arcarsenal said: Quote: Thanks, Bosh. That gif cracks me up. Not so much for Bosh,but it reminded me thatLeBron used to wear that headband ALL the time. And denied he had plugs. Suddenly. Hairlines back, but the headband isn't.

Haha, well he did wear the headband from when he first came into the league and still had his OG hair. Then it started creeping up as his hair line started running away from his forehead and it got silly.

Friends with Melo, always wanted to play for knicks, have to hop he takes a deal in the 8-12 range if not, not worth it in my opinion

In comment 13007420 Enzo said:

Quote:

In comment 13007410 Jon in NYC said: Quote: Noah is on the back 9 of his career, and the injuries are a very real issue. those are reasons for him to look to get paid as much as possible.

*breaking* NBA player wants to make as much money as possible. Alert the presses!

The reasons listed are reasons why teams wont offer him as much.

P.S. I really admire the commitment you've made to the heel turn on BBI Knick threads. You're like our NWO Hulk Hogan.

The Minnesota Timberwolves tried to trade Kris Dunn after selecting him with the fifth pick of Thursday�s NBA draft, but their trade offer for Jimmy Butler was rejected by the Bulls, ESPN�s Marc Stein reports.

The Bulls, who picked 14th in the draft order, were reportedly very interested in Dunn, but their interest was not enough to entice them to part with their two-time All-Star guard after just trading former MVP Derrick Rose to the Knicks on Wednesday.

Stein reports the deal failed after original optimism it would be completed, but Bulls general manager Gar Forman denied the reports entirely.

Is there a BBI consensus on what the best targets are? I would think Oladipo to OKC means Fournier will be difficult to pry loose from ORL.

In comment 13007429 Italianju said:

Quote:

Of 10 mill. He is just too injury prone to give a big deal to. I think the Knicks can get in the ball park of what others are offering and then hopefully with rose, Melo, and it being his hometown it's enough. A healthy Noah and KP is a very strong defensive front court.

that all makes sense - unless you have a team that just created a big hole at center, is desperate to contend, and has two amateurs running the front office. Then maybe he might get a really big offer - or at least more than what we all think would be a fair deal. Just a hunch! Hope I'm wrong....

I'd want to add the best defensive 2 we could reasonably get a hold of. I wouldn't be worried so much about scoring from that spot with the way the team is coming together.

In comment 13007441 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

In comment 13007420 Enzo said: Quote: In comment 13007410 Jon in NYC said: Quote: Noah is on the back 9 of his career, and the injuries are a very real issue. those are reasons for him to look to get paid as much as possible. *breaking* NBA player wants to make as much money as possible. Alert the presses!

But there ARE times when players don't though. Noah doesn't fit that profile.

Quote:

The reasons listed are reasons why teams wont offer him as much.

teams that traditionally don't overpay in contracts or trades might not offer him as much. What kind of team are the Knicks?

Quote:

P.S. I really admire the commitment you've made to the heel turn on BBI Knick threads. You're like our NWO Hulk Hogan.

this is nowhere close to a full heel turn. I'm just teasing it at this point. Wait until we sign Howard or some other bum for big money...

In comment 13007446 Heisenberg said:

Quote:

Is there a BBI consensus on what the best targets are? I would think Oladipo to OKC means Fournier will be difficult to pry loose from ORL.

Great question, and unfortunately one without an obvious answer.

I fear that Phil is going to go after Evan Turner, which would be a terrible move.

I would honestly okay adding someone very cheap like Brandon Rush and rolling with a Galloway/Holiday/Rush trio for this season so we maintain flexibility moving forward.

is so stupid it's hilarious. How many rings does one have to win to gain some credibility. He knows more about the game than anyone on this board, and still takes so much shit. Just look at the state of the team today compared to where we were when he signed on, it's 180 degree turn. Knicks are on the right track, being run by a real grownup. As a season ticket holder, I'm thrilled with where we are headed.

like the Ron Barker add. He can shoot, defend, doesn't turn the ball over, handle it a little bit. If his skills translate to the NBA, he can be useful.

I could see Noah taking the remainder here on a 1+1 deal. Recover value and hit the big market again as a UFA in a $110 million cap season, with some downside protection with the option in case of injury. It all depends on whether someone else is willing to throw more than 3 years at him, but I kind of doubt that.

I think Noah is a good bet. I'd love to see him sign here.

In comment 13007480 Shirk130 said:

Quote:

is so stupid it's hilarious. How many rings does one have to win to gain some credibility. He knows more about the game than anyone on this board, and still takes so much shit. Just look at the state of the team today compared to where we were when he signed on, it's 180 degree turn. Knicks are on the right track, being run by a real grownup. As a season ticket holder, I'm thrilled with where we are headed.

knowing the game of basketball and operating in a front office capacity are two very different things. He is most certainly an amateur when it comes to the latter. He's been proving it on nearly trade/signing he's made.

For all we know Batum is going to be signed or Derozan which I doubt...

I think the best for at SG if you can't get either of those guys is a 3 and d guy, the shooting guard on this team needs to knock down shots because the pick and roll is going to be deadly you need a floor spacer to keep the paint open

He might be a nice stopgap at SG.

In comment 13007509 yatqb said:

Quote:

He might be a nice stopgap at SG.

He really isn't a starter. He and Galloway are very, very similar in shooting percentage wise, based off last season.

Derozan has some unknown love of NYC I can't envision/cultivate a scenario in which he ends up a Knick.

Would love Crawford back but he'd come off the bench. Dude is up there in age now.

In comment 13007480 Shirk130 said:

Quote:

is so stupid it's hilarious. How many rings does one have to win to gain some credibility. He knows more about the game than anyone on this board, and still takes so much shit. Just look at the state of the team today compared to where we were when he signed on, it's 180 degree turn. Knicks are on the right track, being run by a real grownup. As a season ticket holder, I'm thrilled with where we are headed.

How is it a 180 turn? Besides Porzingis, he just did what every other Knicks GM has done in some form for a while- 1) trade assets for an overpaid injured former star who can't play that well anymore and 2) hope and pray that some FA will want to come to the Knicks despite them being a horrible team.

I say this as a guy who supported Phil riiiiiight up until this trade. Same old Knicks.

who is capable of playing starter minutes should the petals come off the Rose! DJ Augustin would be a nice pick-up!

On Crawford. Pass unless he's a backup.

In comment 13007502 Enzo said:

Quote:

In comment 13007480 Shirk130 said: Quote: is so stupid it's hilarious. How many rings does one have to win to gain some credibility. He knows more about the game than anyone on this board, and still takes so much shit. Just look at the state of the team today compared to where we were when he signed on, it's 180 degree turn. Knicks are on the right track, being run by a real grownup. As a season ticket holder, I'm thrilled with where we are headed. knowing the game of basketball and operating in a front office capacity are two very different things. He is most certainly an amateur when it comes to the latter. He's been proving it on nearly trade/signing he's made.

You're gonna ride this wave of nonsense for as long as possible. Good for you.

Dallas Mavs news ‏@dmn_mavericks
Report: Mavericks expected to show interest in Knicks free agent Lance Thomas

In comment 13007429 Italianju said:

Quote:

Of 10 mill. He is just too injury prone to give a big deal to. I think the Knicks can get in the ball park of what others are offering and then hopefully with rose, Melo, and it being his hometown it's enough. A healthy Noah and KP is a very strong defensive front court.

Don't have any reports but on a podcast I listened to mid season (Lowe maybe?) it sounded like he's not gonna have a shortage of suitors and I think $10-12M a year is optimistically low. Thibs I hear is being attributed to going after him. I mean they really have no other targets and he's the type of vet they could use.

In comment 13007601 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 13007502 Enzo said: Quote: In comment 13007480 Shirk130 said: Quote: is so stupid it's hilarious. How many rings does one have to win to gain some credibility. He knows more about the game than anyone on this board, and still takes so much shit. Just look at the state of the team today compared to where we were when he signed on, it's 180 degree turn. Knicks are on the right track, being run by a real grownup. As a season ticket holder, I'm thrilled with where we are headed. knowing the game of basketball and operating in a front office capacity are two very different things. He is most certainly an amateur when it comes to the latter. He's been proving it on nearly trade/signing he's made. You're gonna ride this wave of nonsense for as long as possible. Good for you.

I just can't see how anyone with even a casual understanding of the cap, CBA, and how quality NBA teams are built can think Phil has done a good job so far. Not buying a pick last night was just the latest example of his ineptness.