NFT: Knicks/Draft Day Talk 6/23

In comment 13005995 kash94 said:

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I'm a bit confused how you arrived at the 26 million in space number? Knicks are currently at 56.2 million based on what I've read and the cap will be 97 so wouldn't the Knicks have 40.8 million not 26? Or I'm i missing something (those "ghost" holds or whatever?)?

I think it's 92 not 97. I think Galloway's QO and Hernanagomez might be counted for in that number.

In comment 13005996 giantsfan44ab said:

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I will concede that he had a very nice March and post ASB in general. Although it seems almost every play has a good post ASB now that I think about it. Seems like a part of the season where players in general care less. But Rose does put together a string of weeks where he looks like a top 10 or even top 5 PG. that's something to look forward to. If you check his splits on ESPN there is a drastic difference between games he has 1 day of rest vs 2 days of rest. Hopefully another season will allow him to acclimate more. That's the optimist viewpoint anyway.

People here are really leaving out how his vision affected him early in the year. He ditched the mask on december 10th...and his play got much better.

And, the dyfunctionality of the team made players unaware of their roles.

deal is as good or as bad as people are saying it is here. I'm not a fan of it but more-so because of the long-term implications (i.e. Rose will probably be gone after this year regardless of how he plays while Lopez and Grant were cost-controlled next few years), rather than this upcoming year.

Rose has obviously declined a lot but he's better than Calderon/Grant. I just hope that the Knicks don't max out on a center like Howard.... Then I won't really get the move.

Also this is definitely not the Bargs trade. The Bargs trade involved 3 picks including a first rounder + he had TWO years on his deal as opposed to Rose who is an expiring one. This will only be that level of awfulness if Grant turns into a reliable every-day starter and Lopez rises to an upper-echelon center.

Cap is supposed to be 94 million. I forget who, but one of the writers said they should have about 36 million in cap space as of right now.

think the Lamb deal makes a lot of sense if a player they like falls to 22. Lamb isn't a bad player himself. Not impossible he himself proves to be a solid starting 2. Kid was a lotto pick in 2012, just turned 24 in May. I feel like if he were a FA and the Knicks gave him 3 for 21 a lot of people on here would be touting it as a solid move, throw in the 22nd overall pick and I'm in.

In comment 13005995 kash94 said:

Quote:

I'm a bit confused how you arrived at the 26 million in space number? Knicks are currently at 56.2 million based on what I've read and the cap will be 97 so wouldn't the Knicks have 40.8 million not 26? Or I'm i missing something (those "ghost" holds or whatever?)?

Yeah, I was wrong. Thought I read that somewhere.

In comment 13005999 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 13005995 kash94 said: Quote: I'm a bit confused how you arrived at the 26 million in space number? Knicks are currently at 56.2 million based on what I've read and the cap will be 97 so wouldn't the Knicks have 40.8 million not 26? Or I'm i missing something (those "ghost" holds or whatever?)? I think it's 92 not 97. I think Galloway's QO and Hernanagomez might be counted for in that number.

Ah you're right thanks for that.

disappointed that they didn't try getting Taj Gibson in the deal. I know he's a PF but I think it could've worked out with him getting 20-25 minutes a night at center. I hate Noah to death but the dude is a winner and getting him on a 1 +1 deal would be solid. I'm not sure if he's willing to play with rose after rose reportedly stole his girl, but hopefully that's not true.

Mirotic, so they have to keep Gibson, for now.

about the actual draft or possible moves on this thread already. You have to wade through the bitching about the trade followed by the counter bitch to the bitching. Just kinda annoying to try to talk about the team when you have so many "same old knicks" "i hate this team" etc... comments. I get people have their opinions and want to vent but I almost feel like there should be two threads, one to bitch about the knicks and one to talk about them (and im only half kidding there).

Im with you Dan. If there is a player they like at 22 i would have no problem pulling the trigger on getting Lamb and the pick.

In comment 13006008 DanMetroMan said:

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think the Lamb deal makes a lot of sense if a player they like falls to 22. Lamb isn't a bad player himself. Not impossible he himself proves to be a solid starting 2. Kid was a lotto pick in 2012, just turned 24 in May. I feel like if he were a FA and the Knicks gave him 3 for 21 a lot of people on here would be touting it as a solid move, throw in the 22nd overall pick and I'm in.

I have a hard time understanding why Lamb doesn't get more playing time. He puts together 10-15 point games when he gets legit minutes. Good enough that they extended him for 3 years like a month or so into the season. And then they go out and trade for Lee and he barely sees the court after. I have hard time seeing him being any worse than Afflalo

he has some great upside and could seem like a piece you build around with Butler. Although if you are going full rebuild then he is also an asset that could return some useful pieces.

In comment 13006030 Italianju said:

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he has some great upside and could seem like a piece you build around with Butler. Although if you are going full rebuild then he is also an asset that could return some useful pieces.

Don't think they're going full rebuild after acquiring Lopez who has 3 years left on his deal.

In comment 13006030 Italianju said:

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he has some great upside and could seem like a piece you build around with Butler. Although if you are going full rebuild then he is also an asset that could return some useful pieces.

Well they have 3 guys at PF now. Gibson, Mirotic, and Portis. They really like Portis. I think one of them has to go. Mirotic has more value than Gibson, right now.

In comment 13006008 DanMetroMan said:

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think the Lamb deal makes a lot of sense if a player they like falls to 22. Lamb isn't a bad player himself. Not impossible he himself proves to be a solid starting 2. Kid was a lotto pick in 2012, just turned 24 in May. I feel like if he were a FA and the Knicks gave him 3 for 21 a lot of people on here would be touting it as a solid move, throw in the 22nd overall pick and I'm in.

I think depending on how you feel about Lamb, the pick is just icing. IMO he'd get that deal or better in this market. I mean, AA and Williams are expecting that deal.

As for 22, it's becoming apparent that the league thinks this draft is putrid for depth. So I cant weigh in that much. But if we get that pick I'd take a developmental player. An athlete who just needs to add something to be a valuable rotation player. A 3 and D guy without the 3 yet. A running 4/5 who needs to get stronger. Something like that. Or Valentine as a flyer, but I think he'll go higher.

Nice thing about the modern NBA is that there are more opportunities for tweeners/positionless players. These guys can be had later on.

says PHI is ramping up its efforts to get the 3rd pick. Wonder which player BOS is looking at or if its a 3 way deal. 3 way makes more sense as BOS seems like it wants a more established player then say Okafor or Noel. I guess PHI thinks they can send one of the bigs for the 3rd pick to help balance the roster a bit. That said i dont think the 3rd pick in this draft is great return for say Noel or Okafor. If it is just the 3rd pick i guess.

Lamb? I'm a UConn fan and I definitely expected more. But hey, still young.

What would go the other way in a trade? If it's a future first, that's not good, IMO.

think "as is" Lamb would represent a decent enough addition and he has some attributes that could be appealing. Good length, not a bad shooter.

For context last 2 seasons .112 WS/48, 15.5 PER

Afflalo .052 WS/48, 10.8 PER

Galloway .063 WS/48, 11.9 PER

Turner .070 WS/48, 13.2 PER

Crabbe .094 WS/48 11.2 PER

Batum .101 WS/48, 14.4 PER


I fully realize that you have to take the fact he played a lot less minutes than Batum into account BUT I think it's worth the gamble if someone you like is there at 22

In comment 13006051 Italianju said:

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says PHI is ramping up its efforts to get the 3rd pick. Wonder which player BOS is looking at or if its a 3 way deal. 3 way makes more sense as BOS seems like it wants a more established player then say Okafor or Noel. I guess PHI thinks they can send one of the bigs for the 3rd pick to help balance the roster a bit. That said i dont think the 3rd pick in this draft is great return for say Noel or Okafor. If it is just the 3rd pick i guess.

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
Numerous rivals describe Philly as the most active team in circulation ... with a trade involving Nerlens Noel looking more and more likely

In comment 13006041 Deej said:

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In comment 13006008 DanMetroMan said: Quote: think the Lamb deal makes a lot of sense if a player they like falls to 22. Lamb isn't a bad player himself. Not impossible he himself proves to be a solid starting 2. Kid was a lotto pick in 2012, just turned 24 in May. I feel like if he were a FA and the Knicks gave him 3 for 21 a lot of people on here would be touting it as a solid move, throw in the 22nd overall pick and I'm in. I think depending on how you feel about Lamb, the pick is just icing. IMO he'd get that deal or better in this market. I mean, AA and Williams are expecting that deal. As for 22, it's becoming apparent that the league thinks this draft is putrid for depth. So I cant weigh in that much. But if we get that pick I'd take a developmental player. An athlete who just needs to add something to be a valuable rotation player. A 3 and D guy without the 3 yet. A running 4/5 who needs to get stronger. Something like that. Or Valentine as a flyer, but I think he'll go higher. Nice thing about the modern NBA is that there are more opportunities for tweeners/positionless players. These guys can be had later on.

Let's pretend DX is the "bible"... I'd take Lamb and one of these guys

"17.
MEM
(42-40) Malachi Richardson
SG/SF (Syracuse - Freshman)
20.4 years old | 6'6" | 200 lbs Malachi Richardson 2016 NBA Draft Scouting Video - Strengths
Watch Video
2015-16 NCAA (37 GP)
13.4 PPG 4.3 RPG 2.1 APG 14.0 PER
18.
DET
(44-38) Juan Hernangomez
SF/PF (Estudiantes - International)
20.7 years old | 6'9" | 220 lbs Juan Hernangomez 2015-16 NBA Draft Scouting Video: Strengths
Watch Video
2015-16 ACB (34 GP)
9.7 PPG 5.7 RPG 0.6 APG 16.8 PER
19.
DEN
from POR
(44-38) Wade Baldwin
PG (Vanderbilt - Sophomore)
20.2 years old | 6'4" | 202 lbs Wade Baldwin 2016 NBA Draft Scouting Video - Strengths
Watch Video
2015-16 NCAA (33 GP)
14.1 PPG 4.0 RPG 5.2 APG 20.9 PER
20.
IND
(45-37) Henry Ellenson
PF (Marquette - Freshman)
19.4 years old | 7'0" | 242 lbs Henry Ellenson 2016 NBA Draft Scouting Video - Strengths
Watch Video
2015-16 NCAA (33 GP)
17.0 PPG 9.9 RPG 1.8 APG 21.3 PER
21.
ATL
(48-34) Dejounte Murray
PG/SG (Washington - Freshman)
19.7 years old | 6'5" | 170 lbs Dejounte Murray 2016 NBA Draft Scouting Video - Strengths
Watch Video
2015-16 NCAA (34 GP)
16.1 PPG 6.0 RPG 4.5 APG 17.1 PER
22.
CHA
(48-34) Taurean Prince
SF (Baylor - Senior)
21.8 years old | 6'8" | 220 lbs Taurean Prince 2016 NBA Draft Scouting Video - Strengths
Watch Video
2015-16 NCAA (33 GP)
16.0 PPG 6.0 RPG 2.3 APG 21.1 PER
23.
BOS
(48-34) Furkan Korkmaz
SG (Anadolu Efes - International)
18.9 years old | 6'7" | 185 lbs Furkan Korkmaz 2016 NBA Draft Scouting Video - Strengths
Watch Video
2015-16 Euroleague, Turkish (56 GP)
4.3 PPG 1.2 RPG 0.6 APG 11.8 PER
24.
PHI
from MIA
(48-34) Cheick Diallo
PF/C (Kansas - Freshman)
19.7 years old | 6'9" | 219 lbs Cheick Diallo 2016 NBA Draft Scouting Video - Strengths
Watch Video
2015-16 NCAA (27 GP)
3.0 PPG 2.5 RPG 0.0 APG 21.1 PER

rumor is the Bulls love Baldwin at 14.

In comment 13005990 dep026 said:

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stat is really key. I mean those 3 games are going to dictate how he plays this year. Again.... his Janurary, February, and March play was much much better than what he produced at the beginning of the year when he was wearing a mask and had blurry vision.

Sure just ignore the other 3 months where he was horrible, the same time span you claim he was much much better. Much much better at what?

review of his season. Played well early, got extended, started to struggle and fell out of the rotation. He suffered a shoulder injury which might explain the falloff.

I read somewhere that Lamb says he needs to work on his nutrition and conditioning. Which suggests to me he struggled with his legs, which can effect long range shooting.
Link - ( New Window )

Knicks will sit down with Durant July 1st, remember he was the one who said Durant had no interest

but you get to add a 24 year old lamb and the 22nd pick. That is more youth on the roster to go with KP. The book isnt shut on lamb yet i dont think. Id love to see what he could do with 30 minutes. I get why he didnt play early on with OKC, but it is a bit worrisome that he couldnt carve out more minutes on the Hornets.

In comment 13006074 dep026 said:

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rumor is the Bulls love Baldwin at 14.

Bulls seem to draft pretty well

that kinda answered my why didnt he get more minutes question, ha.

In comment 13006078 Deej said:

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review of his season. Played well early, got extended, started to struggle and fell out of the rotation. He suffered a shoulder injury which might explain the falloff. I read somewhere that Lamb says he needs to work on his nutrition and conditioning. Which suggests to me he struggled with his legs, which can effect long range shooting. Link - ( New Window )

Even after reading that 100% on board. Think of the other realistic options. Turner at 4 years 13-18 per? Crabbe (similarly unproven and needs to be a big offer to pull him away). Lamb + 22 sounds good to me

Him and rose are friends and his interests has peaked

I said, If the Knicks gave Lamb 3 years 21 I suspect most Knicks fans would be talking about his youth, the fact he went lottery, how he had a solid overall season, how tis was an upside move... + a 22nd pick, 100% makes sense to me.

In comment 13006075 Sgrcts said:

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In comment 13005990 dep026 said: Quote: stat is really key. I mean those 3 games are going to dictate how he plays this year. Again.... his Janurary, February, and March play was much much better than what he produced at the beginning of the year when he was wearing a mask and had blurry vision. Sure just ignore the other 3 months where he was horrible, the same time span you claim he was much much better. Much much better at what?

lol, I already explained a reason why he played better at the turn of 2016 you dumb fuck.

November - he shot 35%
December - he shot 41%
January - he shot 47%
February - he shot 44%
March - he shot 46%

That blurred vision thing.... you know, dumbass, it does affect how one plays. He was forced to wear the mask (not as well as bane obviously), and his play was affected by it.

But before you go clamoring months from now that I said Rose can be MVP again.... I am not. He can still be a very very productive player in this league, and he started to show it at the start of 2016. Watch a game here and there. It helps.

Seem to be getting hyped to go mid lottery. Really like Murray's game, if he could shoot I have no question he'd go #3. Obviously lack of shooting ability scares off NBA executives nowadays for justified reasons.

I've gotten a little worried about Richardson the more I watch/read about him. He has a very, very low floor and I'm not sure he has the ceiling due to his athletic limitations. It would be insane if Beasley fell that far. His floor and ceiling appear to be higher than Richardson's.

In comment 13006085 DanMetroMan said:

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Even after reading that 100% on board. Think of the other realistic options. Turner at 4 years 13-18 per? Crabbe (similarly unproven and needs to be a big offer to pull him away). Lamb + 22 sounds good to me

agree

(And I know KD likes KP), can convince him to come all of you haters will change their tune! Just now getting a sit down, with a plan, and can get his friend next year should be enough to like the deal. Prior to the deal, (per Hahn not me) we had no shot!

looks like a potential STEAL at 20.

In comment 13006087 nygiants16 said:

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Him and rose are friends and his interests has peaked

Can we please get off the durant bandwagon? I'll concede to stop with the Rose hating if we can get off talking about rainbows and unicorns. Durant is not coming here.

Won't have to agonize over this for months.

Brother?

In comment 13006098 DanMetroMan said:

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looks like a potential STEAL at 20.

If he turned out to be Kevin love on offense I still don't think it would make up for his atrocious defensive abilities.

in the 18-24 range has-

Ellenson, Beasley, Valentine, Murray, Hernangomez, Zizic, Jackson. I'd be happy with any of them with Lamb (don't know mch about Zizic) but

"Ante's 25.7 PER in the Adriatic League is the second highest in league history since 2001 for a player under the age of 21. He is leading the league in rebounding, and scoring over 20 points per-40 minutes on tremendous efficiency (68% true shooting percentage). While the Adriatic League is not considered the strongest competition in Europe, it has produced over 50 NBA draft picks throughout the years, so it is obviously a league the NBA takes seriously. "

how many teams Durant is going to meet with. OKC obviously. GSW? SA? LAL?

like McCaw as a sleeper. Intriguing.

In comment 13006103 Carl in CT said:

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Brother?

I would avoid a defensively challenged 3/4, just because of Melo. Not a great roster fit. Unless you think he's special.

In comment 13006103 Carl in CT said:

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Brother?

Too easy. It is just too easy.

In comment 13006106 Italianju said:

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how many teams Durant is going to meet with. OKC obviously. GSW? SA? LAL?

So far just on twitter I've heard LAC, LAL, GSW, and I guess the Knicks? I'm sure it will be more.

Even if Durant stays in OKC on a 1+1 deal it'll be helpful for him to meet with these teams and learn more about them in case he does decide to leave next year. Gives him some more time to do some due diligence on each team.

?

In comment 13006115 aimrocky said:

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?

No more barnes, iggy, bogut, and probably barbosa.

In comment 13006115 aimrocky said:

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?

So GS is at 74.2 million so with the cap at 94 million, they have 19.8 in space.

I believe Durant will cost 27-28 million in first year of max right? Since he's in the 7-9 year range (30 percent of 94 million).

So basically they'd need to:
1- Let go of Barnes
2- Let go of Ezeli
3- Let go of Livingston
4- Trade away one more large contract on their books (Iggy, Bogut, etc?)

Just guessing but that's what I think

In comment 13006117 kash94 said:

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In comment 13006115 aimrocky said: Quote: ? So GS is at 74.2 million so with the cap at 94 million, they have 19.8 in space. I believe Durant will cost 27-28 million in first year of max right? Since he's in the 7-9 year range (30 percent of 94 million). So basically they'd need to: 1- Let go of Barnes 2- Let go of Ezeli 3- Let go of Livingston 4- Trade away one more large contract on their books (Iggy, Bogut, etc?) Just guessing but that's what I think

Oh and not resign any of their other FA's like Barbosa, Speights, Varejao more than likely...

I see a lot of people saying team building 101 or whatever ---people forget that Phil has yet to give up any long term chips other than Grant since he's come aboard and Grant was brought in for Hardaway who we all felt had little to no value. Every deal he has made has fortified the future or present WITHOUT forfeiting any long term assets. We haven't given up any future firsts.

In other words, and try to keep up as I know it's hard to remain positive with every fan writer and blogger bashing this team day n and day out, from a "team building 101" standpoint or asset management POV the Knicks are much much bettet today than they were this time 2 years ago and this time last year. Why?

--KP
--more draft picks available after this current draft than we had years prior
--cap room--and please...save me this latest horse crap mantra that cap space is meaningless. It's only meaningless if you HAVE cap room. If you don't, you're completely fucked.


Try and remain calm. Just because the record hasn't turned upside down and gone from bad to good doesn't mean the team isn't improving. Much like the NY Giants, the records can be misleading. The Giants had a better record in 2013 than they did in 2015 but the 15 team was and is poised to improve dramatically. Same applies to the Knicks. They are on the right track. They still need to get a little lucky and they need to develop from within, but success is attainable.