NFT: Knicks/Draft Day Talk 6/23

In comment 13006227 Enzo said:

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In comment 13006187 djm said: Quote: On please I have illustrated how the Knicks are better off today than they were before Phil got here and by a wide margin. You're being ridiculous. Pretty fucking bad? What did you expect after 2 years the show time lakers? The KP pick alone blows your statement to bits. of course we stumbled into the #4 pick last year by ACCIDENT when Phil's brilliant plan to contend with Calderon/Dalembert blew up in his face. Kudos to Phil for making what so far appears to be a tremendous pick, but let's not overlook that he's tried to contend for two straight seasons and both times he's failed. I could detail the various seemingly minor details he's botched or handled incorrectly on numerous trades and contracts, but it seems most folks here either don't care or are unaware of the little things that allow you to build a sustainable winner in a capped league. Maybe that's too much to expect? I mean, we had people vehemently defending the Bargs trade the day it went down. If you're setting the bar at "he's not as bad as Isiah" then Phil has been a huge success. Unfortunately, we're not competing against prior Knick idiot GMs.

We have a first round pick again next year. What don't you understand about trading a solid player in Lopez for a high risk player in Rose? He did the same thing with Chandler. That Dalembert/Calderon with Chandler wins a lot more games and we don't get KP.

Rose could continue to improve from his positive arc last year and put us maybe into the 2nd round of the playoffs. (Proving this core can win with a PG) Or he gets injured again and we get a high draft pick and another young talent to pair with KP, Melo and lots of cap space.

Rose provides us with higher win volatility which is actually good for us this year. Lopez was great when we were trying to have the highest floor because we had no draft picks. Above all, he does make us more attractive to free agents. There are tons of options for FA PGs next year and few this year, and there are plenty of C options this year. There is logic to this move. I said this yesterday, it could still prove to be a bad deal but there are two many unknown variables today for anyone to say it's stupid.

In comment 13006239 Italianju said:

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im not saying he doesnt i just didnt realize that was a knock on him. And again with AA (who im not sure has a low bball IQ either) he came on a great deal (we thought). I just think if your looking at paying a guy 20 mill a year for a few seasons then you dont want him to have a trait you hate unless he makes up for it in a lot of other places. Howard doesnt really make up for it like a Jordan or even Whiteside would.

Monroe's IQ isn't an issue I believe. The knock with him is that he's a tough player to build around in the modern NBA.

He's a terrific post player and pretty good rebounder, and solid passer but not a tremendous defender and has very little to no range if I recall correctly.

Having a laterally slow, non-shot blocking (career 0.6 BPG), no range big-man is not a good fit for the NBA today regardless of how good of a post player and passer he is.

In comment 13006249 Deej said:

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In comment 13006226 DanMetroMan said: Quote: thing to possibly track is because we have so many open roster spots it figures that some of the better undrafted players opt to play summer ball with the Knicks. And yet we didnt make room for Ndour. Agents had to have noticed that.

Gotta think fringe NBA prospects (aka undrafted) worry about available roster spots on a team/chance to show it vs. what happened with one guy who ended up in Europe.

Some of us nuts will be watching and looking through the scrap heaps. We all can disagree but we all love our Knicks and are passionate about it.

hopefully roster spots, star players, and being NY can maybe give us a leg up on some other teams.

Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account
‏@WojVerticalNBA
Brooklyn has traded forward Thad Young to the Indiana Pacers for the 20th pick and a future 2nd rounder, league sources tell @TheVertical.

everyones opinion on Bradley Beal for the Knicks?

And how it went down. Jeanie Buss killed Howard. I know none of that is suppose to impact Phil's decision making as Knicks president but you have to be kidding yourself if you don't think they haven't privately talked about Dwight.

In comment 13006263 DanMetroMan said:

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Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account ‏@WojVerticalNBA Brooklyn has traded forward Thad Young to the Indiana Pacers for the 20th pick and a future 2nd rounder, league sources tell @TheVertical.

Marks making moves.

RealGM ‏@RealGM 4m4 minutes ago
76ers Have Been Conducting 'Due Diligence' On Ricky Rubio:

In comment 13006264 Giantfootball025 said:

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everyones opinion on Bradley Beal for the Knicks?

Too risky given likely contract. And Wash will probably match.

In comment 13006263 DanMetroMan said:

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Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account ‏@WojVerticalNBA Brooklyn has traded forward Thad Young to the Indiana Pacers for the 20th pick and a future 2nd rounder, league sources tell @TheVertical.

they going to take the seton hall kid i guess. they should have gotten more given george hill fetched a 12.

Better than Hill. Less than 5 hrs. Stuff should be heating up.

In comment 13006263 DanMetroMan said:

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Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account ‏@WojVerticalNBA Brooklyn has traded forward Thad Young to the Indiana Pacers for the 20th pick and a future 2nd rounder, league sources tell @TheVertical.

I would have figured Young could have gotten them more than that. Not a lot more, but something better than #20.

a potential cancer in Howard. There's a natural fit and he's a positive influence.

by the stink of abject losing. Minny, Bk, Philly. Losers.

Also, cant compare him to Hill. Thad has a long term contract for real $$

In comment 13006264 Giantfootball025 said:

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everyones opinion on Bradley Beal for the Knicks?

I go to school in DC so have been following the story with him last few years. Basically team/fan has a love-hate relationship. Super talented but crazy amount of injuries (and very debilitating ones).

I think it's too risky especially with Rose and Melo already on the roster with concerns of their own.

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It is unclear at this point if the Knicks will get a meeting with Durant and Rich Kleiman, his Roc Nation Sports agent. But acquiring the 27-year-old Rose in a trade may have helped their cause. People familiar with Durant's thinking told ESPN.com last month that the Knicks would need to upgrade their backcourt to be considered in free agency. They accomplished that on Wednesday in trading for Rose.

Link - ( New Window )

spoke to someone

-TONS of NBA chatter right now. Expect many, many trades

-Philly very active, talking to "everyone"

-Rockets trying to package their "extras" for players who stock is perceived to be down. Offered Ariza and Beverly for Noel.

and apparently i have said that before since as soon as i started to type in "major" chrome filled in the rest for me. I live in DC and Beal is just way too much of a risk based on what he is going to get paid.

on Beal. Will need a megadeal to steal him and chronic leg issue.

I'd take him top 5, but this a flat draft with the perception of that level as below red chip. My guess is that teams will reach for AA big time and the know how to plays could be pushed back where we might have a shot.

In comment 13006271 DanMetroMan said:

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RealGM ‏@RealGM 4m4 minutes ago 76ers Have Been Conducting 'Due Diligence' On Ricky Rubio:

Rubio, Simmons, Noel.... now theres a 3 point contest to watch!

for a mill

In comment 13006310 Phil in LA said:

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I'd take him top 5, but this a flat draft with the perception of that level as below red chip. My guess is that teams will reach for AA big time and the know how to plays could be pushed back where we might have a shot.

Too lazy to recheck the quote but Frascilla said something like pick 15-40 has similar caliber prospects. Outside of the top 3-4 guys you have a TON of similar talents.

when Durant signs here?

at #3. The real player of value there seems to be Dunn who happens to play a position which the Celtics have in bundles. If Ainge thinks that the Sixers are dealing from a position of weakness with their logjam of centers then what will his leverage be with their logjam of guards? If Ainge passes on Dunn then the negotiation may be easier with Phoenix or otherwise.

I'd love to land KD but a Melo/KD/Porzi frontcourt would get annihilated defensively. Seems like an awkward fit.

I actually think Dwight would slot in there better "fit" wise in all seriousness but I doubt it's worth the headache.

a Noel/Rubio swap makes too much sense for both teams?

Melo is not a bad defender, just intentionally inconsistent. That team should cruise to the playoffs, and in the playoffs I'd expect Melo to dial in.

In any event you just need a few good defensive anchors. Curry isnt a good defender. Thompson developed into a strong one (likely overrated at this point -- he's very effective but some of that IMO is just good team D and commitment all around; not a knock on him).

Kawhai out for the Olympics.

Team has a lot of 3's. My guess will be..

Lowry/Irving
Thompson/Derozan
Durant/Butler
Green/Melo
Cousins

Derozan and 1 more. Kyrie and Klay havent confimed yet.

In comment 13006347 Jon in NYC said:

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when Durant signs here?

Hmmm:

Rose
X
Durant
Melo
Porzingis

In comment 13006376 Anakim said:

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In comment 13006347 Jon in NYC said: Quote: when Durant signs here? Hmmm: Rose X Durant Melo Porzingis

X= Sasha Vujacic

LegionNBA ‏@MySportsLegion
The Celtics and Bucks are discussing a trade that would involve Khris Middleton and Greg Monroe heading to Boston. (via @GeryWoelfel)

In comment 13006362 Deej said:

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Melo is not a bad defender, just intentionally inconsistent. That team should cruise to the playoffs, and in the playoffs I'd expect Melo to dial in. In any event you just need a few good defensive anchors. Curry isnt a good defender. Thompson developed into a strong one (likely overrated at this point -- he's very effective but some of that IMO is just good team D and commitment all around; not a knock on him).

I'm a tough critic of Melo but if you notice in big spots/big matchups he does tend to play significantly better defense (note his games vs. Kobe). So I agree, in a big playoff series I suspect his defense would be solid.

In comment 13006393 Anakim said:

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LegionNBA ‏@MySportsLegion The Celtics and Bucks are discussing a trade that would involve Khris Middleton and Greg Monroe heading to Boston. (via @GeryWoelfel)

Wonder what would be going back. No 3?

In comment 13006397 Jon in NYC said:

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In comment 13006393 Anakim said: Quote: LegionNBA ‏@MySportsLegion The Celtics and Bucks are discussing a trade that would involve Khris Middleton and Greg Monroe heading to Boston. (via @GeryWoelfel) Wonder what would be going back. No 3?

plus-plus I think

NBA Central ‏@TheNBACentral
The Rockets offered a package deal involving Trevor Ariza and Patrick Beverly to the 76ers for Nerlens Noel. (via @JakeLFischer)

Im not defending Melo there. He takes too easy on D too many nights. More than is necessary to "save energy". But the key is it's intentional I think. So he can dial in as needed. Also, Melo as a 2nd or 3rd option I think needs a lot less energy on the offensive end, so he can commit more on D. And play fewer minutes generally.

Maybe it's all just wishful thinking tho

Middleton/Monroe story link.

Does this seem legit to you? A "Racine Journal Times Columnist + WSSP 1250 Basketball Insider" is scooping everyone else?

Look, as a Celtics fan, if we're trading 16, 23 and a player for that, I'm all for it. But there's no way it's legit.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13006408 Pego61 said:

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Middleton/Monroe story link. Does this seem legit to you? A "Racine Journal Times Columnist + WSSP 1250 Basketball Insider" is scooping everyone else? Look, as a Celtics fan, if we're trading 16, 23 and a player for that, I'm all for it. But there's no way it's legit. Link - ( New Window )

Unless the Celts are trading for Boogie and then Boogie is the player foinf with 16 and 23, that's nonsense. Mid-late #1s this year appear to have little value in trades.

In comment 13006397 Jon in NYC said:

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In comment 13006393 Anakim said: Quote: LegionNBA ‏@MySportsLegion The Celtics and Bucks are discussing a trade that would involve Khris Middleton and Greg Monroe heading to Boston. (via @GeryWoelfel) Wonder what would be going back. No 3?

Bradley or Smart and number 3.

Knicks going after Durant with Jackson apparently informing Rose we will make a strong push for him.

Acquiring the 27-year-old Rose in a trade may have helped their cause. People familiar with Durant's thinking told ESPN.com last month that the Knicks would need to upgrade their back-court to be considered in free agency. They accomplished that on Wednesday in trading for Rose.

Jamal CrawfordVerified account ‏@JCrossover 20h20 hours ago
Drose to NY?! Hmmm. Gonna be an interesting summer!

Alan Hahn on his show this afternoon.
First words out of his mouth.
Said he spoke to people who said Durant is intrigued and wants to meet with Knicks.
Said other FA around the league are intrigued as well, mentioned he was texting back and forth a FA with multiple awards (pretty sure it was Crawford) who was now intrigued by the Knicks situation

Woelful is actually pretty good.

if Rose leads to Durant signing here, I'll admit my error and that I'm being a big baby about the trade.

because 36 year old Jamal Crawford wants to be here. Guys in his state of being should be looking for work in a place where they can win their ring and retire.

In comment 13006434 Coach Mason said:

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Alan Hahn on his show this afternoon. First words out of his mouth. Said he spoke to people who said Durant is intrigued and wants to meet with Knicks. Said other FA around the league are intrigued as well, mentioned he was texting back and forth a FA with multiple awards (pretty sure it was Crawford) who was now intrigued by the Knicks situation

Thing about NBA players is that they're generally terrible at acknowledging the decline of star players. Hence people thinking Kobe was a top player to the end. That cognitive dissonance should help with Melo and Rose -- two superstars!

In comment 13006437 Deej said:

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if Rose leads to Durant signing here, I'll admit my error and that I'm being a big baby about the trade.

I anyone is worried about what Deej from BBI said about a Rose deal on the heels of Kevin Durant signing with the Knicks then they don't have their priorities straight lol