A free people reasserting its sovereignty from such a grossly authoritarian power structure, plus the pleasurable side benefit of enraging Marxists? It's like Christmas in June.
We can argue all day about how Europe will fare and what countries will win and what countries will lose as a result of Brexit but does this not benefit America ?
We have had to deal for decades with an undemocratic superstate which it seems to me has not benefited us trade wise. If the EU weakens or collapses as a result of Brexit won't it be easier to deal with the European states individually ? Yes, I understand the stock market will tank temporarily. The pound will tank and the dollar will soar for now. Probably oil will be down. But it should all be temporary.
As for the UK, my knowledge is limited, but from the times I've been over I'm surprised their membership has lasted this long. Its well known that the Brits don't consider themselves Europeans. In fact when I mistakenly referred to the UK as being part of Europe when I was over there for business it was obvious I insulted everyone in the room. I never made that mistake again. "Brussels" is spoken with contempt in every paper and TV show I saw.
while there's a lot of support for leaving in England.
I wonder why.
For a variety of reasons. Just because the Scots wanted to remain in the EU along with England, doesn't mean they would still prefer to be in the EU without England. England is their largest trading partner. And consider that the EU is now weakened and there is no telling what kind of domino effect may occur. Scotland should take a wait and see approach before they do anything rash.
Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to stay in the EU. Both are making noises now that they may exit the UK. Scotland with another independence referendum and NI joining Ireland with a vote as per the Good Friday Agreement.
I like Europe and I am very pro the free movement of goods and services. However I do not trust other countries to protect Britain's borders and I do not trust unelected lawmakers to make sound law.
It may take some years but I actually believe we will prosper outside of the EU.
An interesting thing to see will be this country's reaction. Will the special relationship hold and the US quickly agree a trade deal or will they inflict a punishment beating on the UK for going against their wishes. I hope we look long term and forge a closer trans-Atlantic alliance.
I like Europe and I am very pro the free movement of goods and services. However I do not trust other countries to protect Britain's borders and I do not trust unelected lawmakers to make sound law.
It may take some years but I actually believe we will prosper outside of the EU.
An interesting thing to see will be this country's reaction. Will the special relationship hold and the US quickly agree a trade deal or will they inflict a punishment beating on the UK for going against their wishes. I hope we look long term and forge a closer trans-Atlantic alliance.
There will be no UK and the US will be more focused on maintaining its trade relationship with the EU, a much larger and more lucrative market.
And this is not only a catastrophe econimically, it's also a major blow to the European post-world war order. A stable and unified Europe has always been beneficial to the US. The big winner of the Brexit and a potential collapse in Europe in the long run is: Vladimir Putin.
I'm a novice when it comes to this, but here's a question I care about: Will this make Europe more or less reliant on our defending them (militarily) in the long term?
There's going to be more departures from the EU. Already chatter about a handful of countries moving to leave. Greece is a strong candidate. Poland, Italy, Spain also.
RE: A blow to an unelected, stultifying superstars is always a good thing
A free people reasserting its sovereignty from such a grossly authoritarian power structure, plus the pleasurable side benefit of enraging Marxists? It's like Christmas in June.
So, why did the chief enabler of Brexit -- Prime Minister David Cameron -- just resign?
This will change hardly a thing. UK isn't disappearing from the face of the Earth and the Continent will be right were it was yesterday. 660 mill people remaining in the EU will still be buying products (mainly from China) and 65 mill Brits will still be buying and selling around the world.
There will need to be adjustments to trade agreements, but you'd have to be out of your mind to think the world ends because the Brits said FU to being forced to take orders from Brussels.
Hope my broker will wait a day and start buying after the markets craps the bed today...
The Euro is overpriced and the Brits never gave up the pound (as did the Scandinavians who never gave up their kroners). So what changes?
The big change will be the UK's border and immigration restrictions. I guess it is a good day to apply for a job with UK Customs and Immigration.
the UK would be smart to get out now. For those who think it's doom and gloom, countries like Norway aren't in the EU and trade with Europe and other countries. The EU is a big mess.
Who everyone was championing as some heroine, comes out as a huge loser in this both in current terms and in historical contexts. Her immigration stance is going to cause Germany huge problems in the short term and the EU boondoggle over economics and unchecked immigration pushed by Germany have helped precipitate its own demise.
A lot of European countries are going to swing back to the right over the coming years. Immigration, high taxes, stagnant economics and inequality is a toxic brew ripe for changes.
A lot of European countries are going to swing back to the right over the coming years. Immigration, high taxes, stagnant economics and inequality is a toxic brew ripe for changes.
We've seen that movie before and it didn't turn out so well then either.
Who everyone was championing as some heroine, comes out as a huge loser in this both in current terms and in historical contexts. Her immigration stance is going to cause Germany huge problems in the short term and the EU boondoggle over economics and unchecked immigration pushed by Germany have helped precipitate its own demise.
A lot of European countries are going to swing back to the right over the coming years. Immigration, high taxes, stagnant economics and inequality is a toxic brew ripe for changes.
Who everyone was championing as some heroine, comes out as a huge loser in this both in current terms and in historical contexts. Her immigration stance is going to cause Germany huge problems in the short term and the EU boondoggle over economics and unchecked immigration pushed by Germany have helped precipitate its own demise.
A lot of European countries are going to swing back to the right over the coming years. Immigration, high taxes, stagnant economics and inequality is a toxic brew ripe for changes.
What started as an economic union quickly turned into a political machine. With France and Spain very unlikely to support a union dominated by Germany, it looks like their departures are inevitable.
and it seemed that working class folks drove the Leave votes, and immigration was the major issue. But I don't think it's a far reach to connect the dots between a squeezed working class, stagnant wages and immigration as the scapegoat.
and it seemed that working class folks drove the Leave votes, and immigration was the major issue. But I don't think it's a far reach to connect the dots between a squeezed working class, stagnant wages and immigration as the scapegoat.
Why is immigration a scapegoat? It is not an imagined problem. It is the problem. The free borders and work rules overloaded a nation. As jobs appear, the EU people are free to move (like moving from NY to AZ). I don't think the actual European people moving freely was a problem, but it was the North African and Middle Easterners and the freeloaders as a result that drove the issue.
Complicated issue.
The demographics are interesting. the 18-34 y/o group basically knew nothing else and probably liked being able to move freely about the Continental job market. The older crowd preferring the way it was and staying home.
and it seemed that working class folks drove the Leave votes, and immigration was the major issue. But I don't think it's a far reach to connect the dots between a squeezed working class, stagnant wages and immigration as the scapegoat.
Why is immigration a scapegoat? It is not an imagined problem. It is the problem. The free borders and work rules overloaded a nation. As jobs appear, the EU people are free to move (like moving from NY to AZ). I don't think the actual European people moving freely was a problem, but it was the North African and Middle Easterners and the freeloaders as a result that drove the issue.
Complicated issue.
The demographics are interesting. the 18-34 y/o group basically knew nothing else and probably liked being able to move freely about the Continental job market. The older crowd preferring the way it was and staying home.
Scapegoat was the wrong term, but making immigration (and xenophobia) the main issue covers for a lot of other reasons, including failings in economic policy, as it has for the last 200 years.
The EU overstepped it's governance...
BamaBlue : 7:44 am : link : reply
What started as an economic union quickly turned into a political machine. With France and Spain very unlikely to support a union dominated by Germany, it looks like their departures are inevitable.
As the EU progressed, there simply aren't many great reasons for the top heavy countries to stay in it. The UK and Germany become almost like welfare subsidizers for the rest of the group. From an economic standpoint, if the UK was ever truly in, they'd have converted to the Euro. They have always had reservations about the EU, and finally enough was enough. The perfect storm of Brussels control, an undue % of economic burden put on them, the constant worry about the weaker nations casing ripples and the immigration situation made now the right time for them to leave.
This isn't a Doomsday thing. The UK will still have trading partners and the EU will continue on for now, and if it does break up - I'm not sure even that is the horrific thing people think it is.
Quote:
Scapegoat was the wrong term, but making immigration (and xenophobia) the main issue covers for a lot of other reasons, including failings in economic policy, as it has for the last 200 years.
Since 60s and 70s disastrous era, the UK has been doing ok, holding their own. The oil and gas industries have been solid.
Nothing wrong with "xenophobia." I wouldn't want the cretins and freeloaders that invaded the UK, either. I think the French are far more xenophobic than the Brits. Their intolerance and isolation of the North Africans from their former colonies is startling. The Brits were far more welcoming or tolerant might be a better term.
I think if France or Germany vote to leave the EU, Xenophobia would be a primary or close to primary reason. Moreso in France because Germany also has the same issue as UK where they shoulder a financial burden for the lesser countries. In the UK, immigration issues factored in, but was down the list on reasons for voting to leave.
I think if France or Germany vote to leave the EU, Xenophobia would be a primary or close to primary reason. Moreso in France because Germany also has the same issue as UK where they shoulder a financial burden for the lesser countries. In the UK, immigration issues factored in, but was down the list on reasons for voting to leave.
I don't see the Germans being xenophobic, France yes. The Germans have embraced immigration as the immigrants fill jobs left open by a declining working age population (this explained to me by a German Immigration officer to my bewilderment). The French want to protect French culture at all costs. Two different animals.
At what point Germany says they aren't shouldering the Med EU nations, I haven't a clue.
The EU overstepped it's governance...
BamaBlue : 7:44 am : link : reply
What started as an economic union quickly turned into a political machine. With France and Spain very unlikely to support a union dominated by Germany, it looks like their departures are inevitable.
As the EU progressed, there simply aren't many great reasons for the top heavy countries to stay in it. The UK and Germany become almost like welfare subsidizers for the rest of the group. From an economic standpoint, if the UK was ever truly in, they'd have converted to the Euro. They have always had reservations about the EU, and finally enough was enough. The perfect storm of Brussels control, an undue % of economic burden put on them, the constant worry about the weaker nations casing ripples and the immigration situation made now the right time for them to leave.
This isn't a Doomsday thing. The UK will still have trading partners and the EU will continue on for now, and if it does break up - I'm not sure even that is the horrific thing people think it is.
^This. Everyone will survive. But I do think the Scots and the Irish may leave England.
I wonder why.
We have had to deal for decades with an undemocratic superstate which it seems to me has not benefited us trade wise. If the EU weakens or collapses as a result of Brexit won't it be easier to deal with the European states individually ? Yes, I understand the stock market will tank temporarily. The pound will tank and the dollar will soar for now. Probably oil will be down. But it should all be temporary.
As for the UK, my knowledge is limited, but from the times I've been over I'm surprised their membership has lasted this long. Its well known that the Brits don't consider themselves Europeans. In fact when I mistakenly referred to the UK as being part of Europe when I was over there for business it was obvious I insulted everyone in the room. I never made that mistake again. "Brussels" is spoken with contempt in every paper and TV show I saw.
I wonder why.
It may take some years but I actually believe we will prosper outside of the EU.
An interesting thing to see will be this country's reaction. Will the special relationship hold and the US quickly agree a trade deal or will they inflict a punishment beating on the UK for going against their wishes. I hope we look long term and forge a closer trans-Atlantic alliance.
Link - ( New Window )
It may take some years but I actually believe we will prosper outside of the EU.
An interesting thing to see will be this country's reaction. Will the special relationship hold and the US quickly agree a trade deal or will they inflict a punishment beating on the UK for going against their wishes. I hope we look long term and forge a closer trans-Atlantic alliance.
There will be no UK and the US will be more focused on maintaining its trade relationship with the EU, a much larger and more lucrative market.
So, why did the chief enabler of Brexit -- Prime Minister David Cameron -- just resign?
There will need to be adjustments to trade agreements, but you'd have to be out of your mind to think the world ends because the Brits said FU to being forced to take orders from Brussels.
Hope my broker will wait a day and start buying after the markets craps the bed today...
The Euro is overpriced and the Brits never gave up the pound (as did the Scandinavians who never gave up their kroners). So what changes?
The big change will be the UK's border and immigration restrictions. I guess it is a good day to apply for a job with UK Customs and Immigration.
I don't blame them at all.
The EU is losing a huge economic power. It's going to be harder for Great Britian companies to build out side of Britian.
The breakdown by age is pretty striking: 18-34 year olds voted heavily to remain, while the older generations broke decisively to leave.
Help the US and Russia......as EU becomes much less attractive
A lot of European countries are going to swing back to the right over the coming years. Immigration, high taxes, stagnant economics and inequality is a toxic brew ripe for changes.
We've seen that movie before and it didn't turn out so well then either.
FYI DOW futures -377
SP Futures -80
So yea gonna be a blood bath. but this is SHORT TERM IMO
A lot of European countries are going to swing back to the right over the coming years. Immigration, high taxes, stagnant economics and inequality is a toxic brew ripe for changes.
Agreed.
Quote:
Who everyone was championing as some heroine, comes out as a huge loser in this both in current terms and in historical contexts. Her immigration stance is going to cause Germany huge problems in the short term and the EU boondoggle over economics and unchecked immigration pushed by Germany have helped precipitate its own demise.
A lot of European countries are going to swing back to the right over the coming years. Immigration, high taxes, stagnant economics and inequality is a toxic brew ripe for changes.
Agreed.
CANT AGREE MORE. PERFECTLY written
FYI DOW futures -377
SP Futures -80
So yea gonna be a blood bath. but this is SHORT TERM IMO
Of course it is temporary. It may drop 400 today and Monday go up 250 and then regain it all by next Friday.
The breakdown by age is pretty striking: 18-34 year olds voted heavily to remain, while the older generations broke decisively to leave.
Reminds me of this:
Twitter - ( New Window )
Why is immigration a scapegoat? It is not an imagined problem. It is the problem. The free borders and work rules overloaded a nation. As jobs appear, the EU people are free to move (like moving from NY to AZ). I don't think the actual European people moving freely was a problem, but it was the North African and Middle Easterners and the freeloaders as a result that drove the issue.
Complicated issue.
The demographics are interesting. the 18-34 y/o group basically knew nothing else and probably liked being able to move freely about the Continental job market. The older crowd preferring the way it was and staying home.
Quote:
and it seemed that working class folks drove the Leave votes, and immigration was the major issue. But I don't think it's a far reach to connect the dots between a squeezed working class, stagnant wages and immigration as the scapegoat.
Why is immigration a scapegoat? It is not an imagined problem. It is the problem. The free borders and work rules overloaded a nation. As jobs appear, the EU people are free to move (like moving from NY to AZ). I don't think the actual European people moving freely was a problem, but it was the North African and Middle Easterners and the freeloaders as a result that drove the issue.
Complicated issue.
The demographics are interesting. the 18-34 y/o group basically knew nothing else and probably liked being able to move freely about the Continental job market. The older crowd preferring the way it was and staying home.
Scapegoat was the wrong term, but making immigration (and xenophobia) the main issue covers for a lot of other reasons, including failings in economic policy, as it has for the last 200 years.
BamaBlue : 7:44 am : link : reply
What started as an economic union quickly turned into a political machine. With France and Spain very unlikely to support a union dominated by Germany, it looks like their departures are inevitable.
As the EU progressed, there simply aren't many great reasons for the top heavy countries to stay in it. The UK and Germany become almost like welfare subsidizers for the rest of the group. From an economic standpoint, if the UK was ever truly in, they'd have converted to the Euro. They have always had reservations about the EU, and finally enough was enough. The perfect storm of Brussels control, an undue % of economic burden put on them, the constant worry about the weaker nations casing ripples and the immigration situation made now the right time for them to leave.
This isn't a Doomsday thing. The UK will still have trading partners and the EU will continue on for now, and if it does break up - I'm not sure even that is the horrific thing people think it is.
Quote:
Scapegoat was the wrong term, but making immigration (and xenophobia) the main issue covers for a lot of other reasons, including failings in economic policy, as it has for the last 200 years.
Since 60s and 70s disastrous era, the UK has been doing ok, holding their own. The oil and gas industries have been solid.
Nothing wrong with "xenophobia." I wouldn't want the cretins and freeloaders that invaded the UK, either. I think the French are far more xenophobic than the Brits. Their intolerance and isolation of the North Africans from their former colonies is startling. The Brits were far more welcoming or tolerant might be a better term.
I don't see the Germans being xenophobic, France yes. The Germans have embraced immigration as the immigrants fill jobs left open by a declining working age population (this explained to me by a German Immigration officer to my bewilderment). The French want to protect French culture at all costs. Two different animals.
At what point Germany says they aren't shouldering the Med EU nations, I haven't a clue.
Quote:
The EU overstepped it's governance...
BamaBlue : 7:44 am : link : reply
What started as an economic union quickly turned into a political machine. With France and Spain very unlikely to support a union dominated by Germany, it looks like their departures are inevitable.
As the EU progressed, there simply aren't many great reasons for the top heavy countries to stay in it. The UK and Germany become almost like welfare subsidizers for the rest of the group. From an economic standpoint, if the UK was ever truly in, they'd have converted to the Euro. They have always had reservations about the EU, and finally enough was enough. The perfect storm of Brussels control, an undue % of economic burden put on them, the constant worry about the weaker nations casing ripples and the immigration situation made now the right time for them to leave.
This isn't a Doomsday thing. The UK will still have trading partners and the EU will continue on for now, and if it does break up - I'm not sure even that is the horrific thing people think it is.
^This. Everyone will survive. But I do think the Scots and the Irish may leave England.