for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

As far as the defense goes,

Doomster : 6/24/2016 9:47 am
the one element that drove me crazy last season, was YAC....we gave up so much yardage after the catch, that it makes no difference if you have a good pass rush, if this continues.

The back seven, all of them, were guilty of this.....

How many times did we see wr/rb's, catch 3rd down passes short of a first down, and turn it into one.....this defense lacked speed.....as well as brains, last season.....

The linebacker situation is a major question mark, along with the safety position.....

Collins led the teams in tackles, but it was the misses, that were more glaring.....we will have an unknown playing FS.....

Linebacker coverage was horrendous.....too many times we saw the linebackers and db's circle the wagons around the receiver, and yet the receiver would still escape...unless our tackling improves dramatically, unless we have more defensive speed, unless we have players who have some football smarts out there, the pass rush will only bring a slight improvement to this defense.....

As for the starters they have to remain healthy, because there are no adequate backups.....this could be the 2008 situation all over again.....that defense was on gas fumes by the end of the season.....

Once again, the offense will play a big part in how the defense performs.....with TC, this offense played conservative with the lead.....hopefully, Cruz and SS have impact seasons, and this offense goes for the jugular when it can, to make life a little easier for the defense...

If we avoid the injury bug, if we can find the solution to FS, if one of the new linebackers steps up, if the free agents all perform as expected, this defense will look nothing like last year......the talent level has increased dramatically......

"Losing is a disease".....when you play like the defense has for the last 3 seasons, is it any wonder that this defense folds in the 4th quarter? They have the players to get their mojo back....with a few breaks, the chant of "Defense! Defense!" might be back....
1st 3 games  
area junc : 6/24/2016 9:51 am : link
Not sure what the reason was, but if u go back to the 1st 3 games of last year the Giants D is just flying around smacking people. Check out the season opener vs. DAL. Despite being undermanned it was gang tackling and violent.

we lost steam, likely due to the massive injuries, but Spags had us humming early

looking for that same intensity with more talent on the field this year
Didnt Coughlin  
Carthonfan : 6/24/2016 9:54 am : link
play it too conservative against Dallas and then too aggressive against the Falcons? He was wrong in both directions and showed a lack of game awareness from someone with his vast experience.

I agree with your overall sentiment... play to your strengths and if your strength is passing the ball, keep passing. There is nothing wrong with trying to score 30 every week.
This defense appears to be TREMENDOUSLY approved.  
Randy in CT : 6/24/2016 9:55 am : link
Upfront, JPP is on FIRE with his comeback and was our best defender coming off no prep time and hand 30% healed.

Vernon will be a terror on the other side.

Hankins and Snacks aren't allowing anything up the middle and will put serious pressure up front.

We should get 3 very good LBs out of that line up they've put together. Much more talent than we've had in a while.

Collins struggled in coverage which was his MO. He was also our top tackler on defense. The coaches have been very impressed with Thompson in picking up the defense and being a leader. The injured guys we were depending on last year are now depth.

Lost Prince and substituted a playmaker in Jenkins. Plus DRC. Oh, and that first round pick Apple guy.

I expect big things.
I agree area junc,  
Doomster : 6/24/2016 9:59 am : link
they were running around like crazy and not making tackles......look at that final drive...three straight dump off passes for 53 yards, 40 0f those yards were after the catch....
Randy in ct.  
grizz299 : 6/24/2016 10:04 am : link
Get out of Conn. Sagacity not allowed there or here.

Great posts might get you in trouble.
This defense has talent where it should have talent  
BillT : 6/24/2016 10:17 am : link
On the DL and in the secondary. The DL has top talent. They compare favorably to any unit in the league. The secondary has talent and some depth at CB and a SS. The LB are good enough. Its a remarkable turnaround, talent wise, over the last few years and last year in particular. Are all the questions answered. No. Am I pretty excited anyway. Yes, as any Giants fan should be.
...  
ColHowPepper : 6/24/2016 10:48 am : link
agree with your assessment doomster

and with most of Randy's, but I depart company where he says we should get three very good LBs...I'm skeptical there, a lot of moving pieces, oft-injured pieces...and I hope Thompson can step in and play some
RE: ...  
Randy in CT : 6/24/2016 10:55 am : link
In comment 13007567 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
agree with your assessment doomster

and with most of Randy's, but I depart company where he says we should get three very good LBs...I'm skeptical there, a lot of moving pieces, oft-injured pieces...and I hope Thompson can step in and play some
I realize it is on paper but:

Keenan Robinson

Devon Kennard

Cassillas and Thomas, I group together hoping that the new mammoths upfront help keep the speedy, yet previously unproductive LBs clean.

Brinkley.

Sheppard.

Goodson.

Bars.
We have more than enough talent to field an above-average defense.  
Klaatu : 6/24/2016 11:37 am : link
We just have to keep the bulk of it on the field and off of IR.
DEFENSE still wins championships .....  
Manny in CA : 6/24/2016 12:12 pm : link
While it's true that football is a complimentary sport, defense is what puts Lombardis on the Trophy case. Look at the following comparison of the Denver Broncos vs. the New York Giants.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/teams/matchup/332-denver-broncos-vs-351-new-york-giants/

Digging a little deeper, even though the Giants ranked an very good 6th in turn-over ratio ...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/givetake

Their defense was always GASSED in the 4th quarter, because they were on the field too much (time of possession) ....

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-time-of-possession-statistics/2015/

Caused by their mediocre run game ...

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/run-efficiency-ratio/2015/







Manny  
Klaatu : 6/24/2016 12:15 pm : link
Your last two points kind of support the old adage that "The Best Defense is a Good Offense."
As far as the LB crew goes, the biggest difference maker  
BlueLou : 6/24/2016 12:32 pm : link
Is a guy we already have. If he can just stay healthy, Devon Kennard can be a pro bowl player. You talk about the first 3 games last year and guys running around and playing smashmouth ball, Kennard was at the forefront.

I pray Wellman lives up to his name and Kennard stays healthy, because potentially he is a difference maker.
RE: I agree area junc,  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 6/24/2016 12:54 pm : link
In comment 13007471 Doomster said:
Quote:
they were running around like crazy and not making tackles......look at that final drive...three straight dump off passes for 53 yards, 40 0f those yards were after the catch....


What you forget is that the offense was terrible that game and we were up mostly because big defensive plays that either setup easy points or where the defense scored. The defense was pretty gases at the end and Unga was so inexperienced they just picked him apart that drive.

If the O had played a little better it would have helped out allot.
You are missing my point....  
Doomster : 6/24/2016 1:20 pm : link
It wasn't just the Dallas game....
If we  
GiantsRage2007 : 6/24/2016 1:27 pm : link
Can rush the passer and cover the middle of the field we will be wayyyyyy better.

Hopefully we addressed the pass rush, with Vernon and a better JPP and maybe a healthy Odi.

Middle of the field? Not sure our Safety question marks and LB corps have that covered yet. But like we've all said - it literally can't get worse.
RE: You are missing my point....  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 6/24/2016 1:37 pm : link
In comment 13007829 Doomster said:
Quote:
It wasn't just the Dallas game....


I agree it was all season, but to hang it all on the D is not really fair at all. There were plenty instances were if the offense could just string together a drive, not even get points, just eat some clock and we would have won the game. We didn't have the horses on defense to be able count on the defense at the end of the day.
Collins was a rookie  
djstat : 6/24/2016 1:39 pm : link
Misses are expected. Let's see what he does this year. he is a leader and a good player
I'm optimistic about this defense not being ranked dead last  
giantgiantfan : 6/24/2016 2:32 pm : link
and the optimism ends there. Am I excited for the season? Of course, very much excited for week 1 in Dallas so I can find out what we have. Our d-line will be tested against a good Dallas o-line. Our secondary will be tested against Romo/Dez and whats left of Witten. Our run defense will be tested against McFadden and Elliot.

On the YAC I just don't remember, last season was kind of a blur for me on the defense. It was staring at the sun, I didn't look for long periods of time. My bold prediction, this defense ranks no worse than 20.
2008?  
Glover : 6/24/2016 5:46 pm : link
You mean the only time I ever wanted to hang KG, after he called Jacobs off tackle on 3rd and short, and then the same play on 4th and short? I get it. He had confidence in his line and if they couldnt get a yard, the Giants didnt deserve the win, but when everyone and their mom knew it was coming, the Eagles shut that shit down in the backfield. THAT is why the Giants lost in 2008.

As far as the defense. I never got frustrated last season because I expected them to suck, really bad, all season. The fact that they lost games on the final drive was impressive to me, instead of just getting blown out from whistle to gun.

The LBs will suck again this season. Hopefully the pass rush will be existent and average, so as to give them and the secondary a chance to make some plays. Don't count on LBs to improve. They won't. The D Line and the secondary hopefully can bolster them up.
Excellent point, Klaatu ...  
Manny in CA : 6/24/2016 5:53 pm : link

That is why I prefaced my post with football is a complimentary sport, the key on offense is an excellent run game - that keeps the opponent's offense off the field. As the game wears on this effect is magnified.

The "firepower" passing game is a wonderful thing to have when you fall behind in the 2nd half. There isn't any one thing that is more discouraging to a team than to play a good first half and see the opposition score "at will" in the 2nd half.

Other than the games that were lost due to the thick and impenetrable "Fog of War" that engulfed the sideline, four landmark losses stand out ......

The two shoot-out losses (to New Orleans and Carolina), the blow-out loss to the Vikings and the last game loss to the Eagles.

In those four losses, the team played it's heart out, but the defense was not only out-manned but physically spent.

Bottom-line, give me a decent offense to "keep the Barbarians from climbing the wall", but an outstanding defense to win games.


RE: Didnt Coughlin  
RetroJint : 6/24/2016 5:59 pm : link
In comment 13007454 Carthonfan said:
Quote:
play it too conservative against Dallas and then too aggressive against the Falcons? He was wrong in both directions and showed a lack of game awareness from someone with his vast experience.
Buddy look: see if you can follow this. Spagnuolo put the game plans in. He made all of the defense's calls. This has been going on for at least 25 years. The coordinator of the unit that is not the HC's forte becomes the de facto second HC. He also has the most say in personnel. Not complete autonomy but nearly so. That's why Craig Dahl was a Giant in 15.

Why were the game plans so conservative, especially in the fourth quarter? Because of Spagnuolo. He made the calls. Here is the thing you're missing entirely about him. He was conservative in his gameplans in 07 and 08 as well. He simply had a brief window when the Giants had the greatest d-line in team history, coupled with fact that the teams in his division and others like the Pats had below-average o-lines. Hence the impression that he was a super-aggressive DC. When you are getting your sacks handed to you in too many individual match-ups, your overall work product looks passive. Then the Nimrods bring out "Read N React," which remains their sole cognitive retention over the last 25 years.

16 is a referendum on Spagnuolo. McAddo will be around in 17; Spagnuolo might not. I'd say probably not. He is effecting a breezy, confident manner because he knows where he is in his career. This is it.

Joe Amalfatano was coaching the Cubs one year. Bobby Bonds was with them in the spring in Arizona, trying to hang on. Joe told him,"Bobby, we both know where you are. If you have any bullets left in your gun, you better fire them now." Spagnuolo 16--Last call for a one-trick pony.

I agree with your overall sentiment... play to your strengths and if your strength is passing the ball, keep passing. There is nothing wrong with trying to score 30 every week.
It just wasn't in the cards, Retro ...  
Manny in CA : 6/24/2016 6:31 pm : link

Talk about being "caught between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea"; If you try to score 30+, and you do/don't doesn't matter, if your defense can't hold the fort, because they're under-manned, exhausted (or just plain suck).

Reminds me of when our kids were little, player soccer. I knew nothing (and continue to know nothing) about that sport. All we did as parents was to stand on the sideline screaming our lungs out (as the kids bunched up together) - "kick it harder, just kick it harder " !
The front office  
George : 6/26/2016 7:57 am : link
has done a lousy job with our linebacking crew. They've addressed every other position on the team pretty well, and save for a bona fide RT, this is an improved team from last season. But our LBs have a lot to prove: if they can't cover the middle of the field, chase down RBs, and harass TEs off the line, we are going to be sunk again in 2016.

I wish we'd just do the unthinkable and go LB in Round One next year.

And yes, I know the Giants don't value LBs very much. And no, I don't think they're right to do so.
If people stay healthy  
UberAlias : 6/26/2016 9:16 am : link
This defense shouldn't resemble the one from a year ago very much. Changes to personnel on all levels. Last year was bad, we all know. That's why they spent hundreds of millions in FA and three of the first four picks in the draft in effort to upgrade it.

I'd give Collins a bit of a break though, by the way. He was only in the top 20 in the NFL in tackles -4th among safeties- with 9 passes defensed starting all 16 games as a rookie safety for the first time in team history, while playing out of position and some poor personnel around him. I'm not saying it was perfect, but I would hardly single him out as part of the problem. This kid is going to be a beast, IMO.
Setting aside questions of health, which are always a wildcard,  
UberAlias : 6/26/2016 9:28 am : link
I want to see just how big an impact player Vernon turns out to be. They certainly thought enough of him to pay him like a game changer. JPP was fairly disruptive a year ago and arguably opened some things up for Ayers on the other side. He's only going to improve, they question is, how much so. I would say the answers to these questions will go a long way in shaping this defense. Strong answers here and that alone makes this defense a different animal. Time will tell.
D-D-D-D-e-e-e-f-f-f-e-e-e-n-n-n-s-s-s-e-e-e!!!  
ROBUSTELLI81 : 6/26/2016 9:46 am : link
Dissect 2015? Why? Take a knee, thank the Football Gods that there is next year and move on. The horror is done, let's bury it.

The 2016 Spagnulators have the talent to equal Sman's Super Bowl winners. The D line JPP, "Snacks", "Hanks", OV Ranks with the best in the league. The LB Corps maybe not quite that highly rated but a talented starting threesome of a healthy & hungry "K-Bomb" Kennard, "Joltin' Jasper" Brinkley & man- on- a-mission "Robocop" Robinson, with quality backups when - not if - injuries strike. Casillas, Sheppard, Goodson, maybe Thomas, not much drop off unlike last year's zoo. The secondary with two quality CBs in DRC & "Januraptor" Jenkins, Eli2 in the wings if needed, "Two-Way" Jackson in the slot or #3 safety. Darian "Pick Off" Thompson solves the free safety problem, "Alabaminator" Collins knocking them down at strong safety, again quality backups in Berhe & Thompson. Hell even the Practise Squad could have more talent than some of last year's starters.

So let's chant the ancient Giant's chant for the 2016 "Breserkers" mojo:

"Robustelli! Katcavage! Modzelewski! Grier!"
"smack 'em in the nose! Kick 'em in the rear!"
"Huff! VanPelt! Carson! Taylor!
"Knock 'em down! Never waver!"
"Tunnell! Lockhart! Sehorn! Rolle!"
"Pick 'em off! No more goals!
"Deeeeefffffeeeennnssseee!!!
Back to the Corner