(Let's try this again. No hard feelings, Shadow. The consensus just seemed to be that those Reddit spoilers crossed the line.)
This is the weekly free-for-all thread. As usual, the main constraint is not to post information from advance viewing of the actual episode. So, if you received a DVD from your cousin at HBO that shows Cersei Lannister napalming the Great Sept of Baelor, please keep it to yourself. Anything else is fair game,
BUT...
IF YOU HAVE GOOD REASON TO THINK A SPOILER CAME FROM SOMEBODY WHO HAS ALREADY SEEN THE EPISODE, PLEASE BE COURTEOUS ABOUT POSTING
Official HBO synopsis:
Link to official photos is below, courtesy of Watchers on the Wall.
Predictions:
1. Loras swears off the big D.
2. So does Daenerys (for now).
3. Frey pies! Frey smoothies! Freyburgers! Frey Fries!
4. Monkfries: Cersei chooses more violence... much more... maybe more than she intended.
5. T.o.J.: R + L = J + x. Solve for x.
Week 9 Death Pool Winners: Ramsay Bolton, Rickon Stark, Smalljon Umber, Wun Weg Wun Dar Dun, Free Folk, Northmen, Yunkish and Astapori slavers (and their crewmen, most of whom were likely slaves - oops), Sons of the Harpy. Status of Harald Karstark and the Harpy herself still TBD.
Death Pool Opening Favorites for Week 10 - bloodbath expected:
Lyanna Stark (vision) 1-10
High Sparrow 1-2
Septa Unella 1-2
Lancel Lannister and anonymous FM devotees 1-2
Walder Frey, his heirs and successors 1-2
Loras Tyrell 1-1
Grand Maester Pycelle 1-1
Kevan Lannister 3-2
Tommen Baratheon 2-1
Melisandre of Assha'i 2-1
Margaery Tyrell 4-1
Euron Greyjoy 8-1
Davos Seaworth 10-1
Jon might also need to behead Harald Karstark, if the little weasel is still alive. Or maybe Jon and Sansa start rebuilding the Northern Alliance by pardoning Karstark. Somebody has to defend Karhold in the War to Come.
(I'll repost the rest of the prior thread below.)
Episode 10 Photos at Watchersonthewall.com - (
New Window )
I re-watched the scene after cranking the volume to 100. What I got was:
There are a few variations on Watchers on the Wall and elsewhere, but they all have basically the same stuff.
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Or love?
If it were rape, Ned would hate Rhaegar more than Robert does. Yet in the books, Ned visited a brothel to do some detective work, he thought Rhaegar would not likely be the type of guy who would visit brothels. Ned thinking the alleged rapist of his sister to have honor? No. Jon is a child of love.
He was looking for a true heir to Robert as he knew none of Cerci's offspring were his. It had nothing to do with Rhaegar
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I thought I heard "his name is" and, of course, "promise me Ned" but there was more said. Was anyone able to grasp it?
I re-watched the scene after cranking the volume to 100. What I got was:
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His name is (inaudible) Targaryen. Robert will kill him if he finds out. You know he will. You have to protect him. Promise me...
There are a few variations on Watchers on the Wall and elsewhere, but they all have basically the same stuff.
There is likely much more to the Rhaegar/Lyanna union than obsession, love or rape. Baelish only scratched the surface of that back-story when he told Sansa about the Tourney at Harrenhal. We might have to wait for either a prequel movie or the seventh book to get the details. The TV show doesn't need that stuff, not that the showrunners have established R+L=J.
BTW, I'm not sure legitimacy really counts for much at this point. By what order of succession is Cersei's claim to the throne legitimate? She was queen mother, but the royal line is Baratheon, not Lannister.
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In comment 13010618 ron mexico said:
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Or love?
If it were rape, Ned would hate Rhaegar more than Robert does. Yet in the books, Ned visited a brothel to do some detective work, he thought Rhaegar would not likely be the type of guy who would visit brothels. Ned thinking the alleged rapist of his sister to have honor? No. Jon is a child of love.
He was looking for a true heir to Robert as he knew none of Cerci's offspring were his. It had nothing to do with Rhaegar
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Andy in Halifax said:
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I thought I heard "his name is" and, of course, "promise me Ned" but there was more said. Was anyone able to grasp it?
I re-watched the scene after cranking the volume to 100. What I got was:
Quote:
His name is (inaudible) Targaryen. Robert will kill him if he finds out. You know he will. You have to protect him. Promise me...
There are a few variations on Watchers on the Wall and elsewhere, but they all have basically the same stuff.
Hopefully it's not "Jon Targaryon". That would seem out of place.
Rhaegar wouldn't have named his kid Jon either. More likely Jon is the name Ned gave him. Makes the cover story more plausible. Ned's closest friend and ally was Jon Arryn of the Vale.
It all makes now if you think about it. Sam becomes Jon's best friend, Sam is made a character or likes to read and investigate, Sam winds up at the biggest library with all this historical evidence at his fingertips. I mean, is it really all a coincidence?
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In comment 13010759 Big Blue Blogger said:
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Andy in Halifax said:
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I thought I heard "his name is" and, of course, "promise me Ned" but there was more said. Was anyone able to grasp it?
I re-watched the scene after cranking the volume to 100. What I got was:
Quote:
His name is (inaudible) Targaryen. Robert will kill him if he finds out. You know he will. You have to protect him. Promise me...
There are a few variations on Watchers on the Wall and elsewhere, but they all have basically the same stuff.
Hopefully it's not "Jon Targaryon". That would seem out of place.
Rhaegar wouldn't have named his kid Jon either. More likely Jon is the name Ned gave him. Makes the cover story more plausible. Ned's closest friend and ally was Jon Arryn of the Vale.
I agree in theory, but Rhaegar wasn't at the TOJ when Jon was born, so it's very possible/likely Lyanna named him, not Rhaegar.
Since Rhaegar not being there for the birth had no idea it was a son not a daughter. of course it's possible the two had spoken and had names picked out, but I don't think you can reach that conclusion.
Look at Daenarys' rise to power. The Dothraki would never follow a woman to war or anything, until Dany proved she is something beyond mortal. Then she rode a dragon, showing more power than anyone alive has seen. They don't give a fuck that she's Valyrian, or Targaryen, or a 5ft tall woman who can't make facial expressions. She can't be burnt, she rides a dragon, she owns two more dragons, she defeated the Slavers. That's all the people needed to declare for her.
I think the Iron Throne is largely irrelevant in the end game. Its about the final war, and Jon/Dany/Tyrion likely won't all survive it...
I think as long as Jon pledges fealty, she'd be okay with it. She just granted the Iron Islands their independence and told Tyrion that others are welcome to ask her, first.
Dragons would make short work of the white walkers, no?
Even if the Walkers are vanquished, the world still requires balance. It's not a coincidence that Dany's primary weapon is Fire, and Jon's is Ice.
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I don't anticipate she will be okay with the North being it's own kingdom and I don't anticipate he will kneel to her.
I think as long as Jon pledges fealty, she'd be okay with it. She just granted the Iron Islands their independence and told Tyrion that others are welcome to ask her, first.
It will end up being a representative democracy. Book it
Not necessarily. So far, I don't think fire has been very effective against the White Walkers themselves. The options there seem to be Valyrian Steel and Dragonglass. The dragons' main value might be leveling the playing field by torching the endless waves of wights, who comprise the bulk of the Others' forces. They also provide air cover, which is sort of a game-changer in medieval warfare (where nobody had it).
Your "predictions" were show spoilers copies from Reddit. Go away, troll...
You're a stain
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Dragons would make short work of the white walkers, no?
Not necessarily. So far, I don't think fire has been very effective against the White Walkers themselves. The options there seem to be Valyrian Steel and Dragonglass. The dragons' main value might be leveling the playing field by torching the endless waves of wights, who comprise the bulk of the Others' forces. They also provide air cover, which is sort of a game-changer in medieval warfare (where nobody had it).
There are ice dragons too in the GRRM universe. Not sure how or if they will come into play here though.
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Dragons would make short work of the white walkers, no?
Not necessarily. So far, I don't think fire has been very effective against the White Walkers themselves. The options there seem to be Valyrian Steel and Dragonglass. The dragons' main value might be leveling the playing field by torching the endless waves of wights, who comprise the bulk of the Others' forces. They also provide air cover, which is sort of a game-changer in medieval warfare (where nobody had it).
Plus, I assume dragons can be killed too. Haven't seen anything kill them yet, but there are only three left (for now) and I haven't heard what happened to all the others but before Daenerys three were hatched they were thought to be extinct.
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ron mexico said:
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Dragons would make short work of the white walkers, no?
Not necessarily. So far, I don't think fire has been very effective against the White Walkers themselves. The options there seem to be Valyrian Steel and Dragonglass. The dragons' main value might be leveling the playing field by torching the endless waves of wights, who comprise the bulk of the Others' forces. They also provide air cover, which is sort of a game-changer in medieval warfare (where nobody had it).
There are ice dragons too in the GRRM universe. Not sure how or if they will come into play here though.
I can't see them bringing in ice dragons at this point. I do wonder how Dany's Dragons will fair in the cold, however.
Ah don't worry, nobody actually believes those were your predictions.
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In comment 13010968 Big Blue Blogger said:
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ron mexico said:
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Dragons would make short work of the white walkers, no?
Not necessarily. So far, I don't think fire has been very effective against the White Walkers themselves. The options there seem to be Valyrian Steel and Dragonglass. The dragons' main value might be leveling the playing field by torching the endless waves of wights, who comprise the bulk of the Others' forces. They also provide air cover, which is sort of a game-changer in medieval warfare (where nobody had it).
There are ice dragons too in the GRRM universe. Not sure how or if they will come into play here though.
I can't see them bringing in ice dragons at this point. I do wonder how Dany's Dragons will fair in the cold, however.
Well, there's a lot left to see north of the wall. I would say there's some room for it. You don't have to introduce them much more than showing the ice king doing some crazy ice king stuff. Then you can have combat in the air and on the ground.
That joke is older than the Wall.
How about this Sansa will betray Jon with in next season and becomes a pawn. in the game. Little finger is not done was her. It will come down to Jon's reveal as a Targ.
Wishing death apron someone
Even in jest..
Is very bad karma for oneself. Not to mention sad.
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you should actually kill yourself
Wishing death apron someone
Even in jest..
Is very bad karma for oneself. Not to mention sad.
Really can you stop? It's been a good thread so far and it seems mean spirited and childish to try and ruin things for the rest of us.
I wonder how Bran could prove Jon's lineage, since he'd likely be seen as a deranged cripple by most nobles. One plausible scenario would involve Meera's father.
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In comment 13011121 GMenLTS said:
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you should actually kill yourself
Wishing death apron someone
Even in jest..
Is very bad karma for oneself. Not to mention sad.
Really can you stop? It's been a good thread so far and it seems mean spirited and childish to try and ruin things for the rest of us.
I wonder how Bran could prove Jon's lineage, since he'd likely be seen as a deranged cripple by most nobles. One plausible scenario would involve Meera's father.
Howland Reed's appearance would be key there, right.
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In comment 13011133 Shadow said:
Quote:
In comment 13011121 GMenLTS said:
Quote:
you should actually kill yourself
Wishing death apron someone
Even in jest..
Is very bad karma for oneself. Not to mention sad.
Really can you stop? It's been a good thread so far and it seems mean spirited and childish to try and ruin things for the rest of us.
I wonder how Bran could prove Jon's lineage, since he'd likely be seen as a deranged cripple by most nobles. One plausible scenario would involve Meera's father.
Howland Reed's appearance would be key there, right.
Or Sam with all those books and scrolls. He may find writings from or about Rhaegar, marriage certificate, or something. Seems he is there to find out some kind of lost information.
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In comment 13011145 Ash_3 said:
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In comment 13011133 Shadow said:
Quote:
In comment 13011121 GMenLTS said:
Quote:
you should actually kill yourself
Wishing death apron someone
Even in jest..
Is very bad karma for oneself. Not to mention sad.
Really can you stop? It's been a good thread so far and it seems mean spirited and childish to try and ruin things for the rest of us.
I wonder how Bran could prove Jon's lineage, since he'd likely be seen as a deranged cripple by most nobles. One plausible scenario would involve Meera's father.
Howland Reed's appearance would be key there, right.
Or Sam with all those books and scrolls. He may find writings from or about Rhaegar, marriage certificate, or something. Seems he is there to find out some kind of lost information.
Didn't sound like the citadel was the most current or accurate with their records. Just from that one brief interaction sam had with the receptionist or whatever he was. though i did think about this too, but it was more like Sam would come up with a way to defeat the white walkers and their wights that's more scalable than the 5 valyrian steel swords in the seven kingdoms.
maybe a way to quickly create obsidian/dragon glass or just a simple way to defeat them based on historical records.
How will Jon feel knowing the Mad King was his Grandfather and what he did to the Starks who raised him? How will Sansa react to it?
Their is no way the King of the North is a Targ? You think Baelish won't use that?
The White Wolf is really a Dragon. Jon did a lot of moping around this season imagine next season when he finds out who he really is
Is he the prince that was promised ?
How will Jon feel knowing the Mad King was his Grandfather and what he did to the Starks who raised him? How will Sansa react to it?
Their is no way the King of the North is a Targ? You think Baelish won't use that?
The White Wolf is really a Dragon. Jon did a lot of moping around this season imagine next season when he finds out who he really is
Is he the prince that was promised ?
You're a fucking weirdo...
How will Jon feel knowing the Mad King was his Grandfather and what he did to the Starks who raised him? How will Sansa react to it?
Their is no way the King of the North is a Targ? You think Baelish won't use that?
The White Wolf is really a Dragon. Jon did a lot of moping around this season imagine next season when he finds out who he really is
Is he the prince that was promised ?
This is not how you win your father's approval.
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Get it on with her Nephew Jon? Targs keep it in the family.
How will Jon feel knowing the Mad King was his Grandfather and what he did to the Starks who raised him? How will Sansa react to it?
Their is no way the King of the North is a Targ? You think Baelish won't use that?
The White Wolf is really a Dragon. Jon did a lot of moping around this season imagine next season when he finds out who he really is
Is he the prince that was promised ?
You're a fucking weirdo...
Too much psychological tempering by the Man when shadow was in the secret world of spies.
How will Jon feel knowing the Mad King was his Grandfather and what he did to the Starks who raised him? How will Sansa react to it?
Their is no way the King of the North is a Targ? You think Baelish won't use that?
The White Wolf is really a Dragon. Jon did a lot of moping around this season imagine next season when he finds out who he really is
Is he the prince that was promised ?
Jon is a Targaryen and Stark.