Brought in Russell Okung, he told them he wanted to play left tackle, they told him no, then went to the Broncos for less money.
Now the have a chance to sign Monroe, and he's probably telling him the same thing.
They have a proto-type right tackle playing on the left (Flowers) and a shaky right tackle, so is there careful thought going on, in our front office ?
Brought in Russell Okung, he told them he wanted to play left tackle, they told him no, then went to the Broncos for less money.
Now the have a chance to sign Monroe, and he's probably telling him the same thing.
They have a proto-type right tackle playing on the left (Flowers) and a shaky right tackle, so is there careful thought going on, in our front office ?
I'm gonna go ahead and trust the Giants staff on what Flowers is capable of, over some cat named Manny that that watched a few drunken games from his couch.
Big blue shock, how old are you Sonny and how long have you
It's a free country, but that's our job (here at BBI) - to second-guess the heck out of everything the team does !
It's kind of like going to Vegas; sure you know, most likely you're going to lose your butt (cause they're smarter), but it makes it sweeter when you "skunk Da Man"
is the biggest OL improvement the Giants made this year. He apparently is ok with Flowers at LT, at least before the pads go on. I'll cut him some slack for now.
The dope thing aside, which could be a distraction no one needs, when do we let young players develop? Bobby Hart can play. He CAN play. The retarded development of young offensive linemen on this team must end with this new regime. You have to give players a chance to play. I will always believe the numerous Brandon Mosley types who failed could have had at least a few successes with a chance. Eugene Monroe is a stop gap expensive player. No future in him. Signing him screws up the future for young talent. Glad we passed.
I know he played through a lot of pain and an inexperienced pro. If Beatty hadn't hurt himself, we wouldn't be having this discussion, Flowers would have been on his way to becoming one of the best right tackles in the NFL.
As far as the Giants not wanting free agents "dictating" to them, Jerry's a Big Boy, I think he can take a shot to his ego, if it means getting a shot at player who can help the team make a playoff run.
Pipe down, learn to respectfully disagree and give your reasons for disagreement cogently.
Too many on this board bash posters just for the sake of bashing.....disagree and argue your point.....many don't have a clue....their answer is mainly name calling and generalizing....
As far as the Giants not wanting free agents "dictating" to them, Jerry's a Big Boy, I think he can take a shot to his ego, if it means getting a shot at player who can help the team make a playoff run.
It's not about ego. It's just a poor way to run a franchise. A guy with a significant injury history, who was just cut by his last team, shouldn't be awarded the starting LT spot in June. He needs to prove himself in camp and earn it. If Monroe is not willing to do that, that seems like a bad sign.
PFF also ranked Eli Manning as the 24th QB in the NFL. Behind Brian Hoyer, Alex Smith, Stafford, Osweiler, Tannehill, Jameis Winston, Bridgewater, Jay Cutler, Sam Bradford & Matt Ryan.
Yes Eli the QB who was 2nd in the NFL in TDs with only 14 INTs & 4508 yards. With an average at best OL, no run game, Undrafted rookie TE & a 25 year old WR who couldn't even get a contract for 1.5 million.
Sorry if I was too harsh. I understand your point and I too would love to see some action at the O-Line. I have to believe that it is about value and timing. I suspect by the end of the summer there will be some upgrades, even if only marginal and/or in terms of depth.
The key is, stay healthy. Nothing puts lipstick on the pig that is a mediocre offensive line like a good qb and good coaching.
Monroe & Okung aren't good enough to just get handed one of the toughest positions on an offense. Especially when it effects their top 10 picks progression.
If it was Joe Thomas or Tyron Smith & the Giants said no to them playing LT I'd say they are stupid. Not for Monroe or Okung.
BBI's come a long way, since the ball-bustin' "bad old days"
Reminds me of when I was "sub" teaching in high school Summer School. It was a math class. I noticed that the smartest kids in class were five boys in the back of the room (I was amazed how easy the subject matter came to them).
It was fine, they all finished their assignment way before the others. The problem was, they'd all jump out of their desks laughing and hitting each other in the crotch with closed fists ! I had to watch them like a hawk all Summer.
PFF also ranked Eli Manning as the 24th QB in the NFL. Behind Brian Hoyer, Alex Smith, Stafford, Osweiler, Tannehill, Jameis Winston, Bridgewater, Jay Cutler, Sam Bradford & Matt Ryan.
Yes Eli the QB who was 2nd in the NFL in TDs with only 14 INTs & 4508 yards. With an average at best OL, no run game, Undrafted rookie TE & a 25 year old WR who couldn't even get a contract for 1.5 million.
Flowers was a ROOKIE! Forced into action and played hurt. BFD. He needs to improve. If we gave Toomer, Armstead , Richburg, Strahan, Tiki, Webster, K. Phillips all just one shot before demoting them, none of them would have turned out the way they did.
A lot of people want Flowers to RT for 1 reason. He's a big SOB and can run block/mauler type.
Well, that's the NFL of yesteryear. The need for your RT to pass block very well is more and more important every year. I've read several Oline coaches and players say this. The RT role has changed somewhat over the last 10-15 years.
If Flowers develops well, he'll be the Giants LOT for the next decade. It's harder to find a good LOT than a ROT.
Beatty, if never injured, would have been the LOT in 2015 and Flowers would have started at ROT. However, the Giants Flowers for future LOT and Beatty would have been cut/traded/moved this year.
The only thing that does still puzzle me about the Giants thinking about the Oline is that they seem to seriously like Newhouse and think he's pretty good. Else, they would have used cash to grab a ROT at the start of the frenzied free agency period. Maybe have taken Schwartz's little brother.
A lot of people want Flowers to RT for 1 reason. He's a big SOB and can run block/mauler type.
Well, that's the NFL of yesteryear. The need for your RT to pass block very well is more and more important every year. I've read several Oline coaches and players say this. The RT role has changed somewhat over the last 10-15 years.
If Flowers develops well, he'll be the Giants LOT for the next decade. It's harder to find a good LOT than a ROT.
Beatty, if never injured, would have been the LOT in 2015 and Flowers would have started at ROT. However, the Giants Flowers for future LOT and Beatty would have been cut/traded/moved this year.
The only thing that does still puzzle me about the Giants thinking about the Oline is that they seem to seriously like Newhouse and think he's pretty good. Else, they would have used cash to grab a ROT at the start of the frenzied free agency period. Maybe have taken Schwartz's little brother.
Vax, given healthy normal play from Beatty in 2015, I think he'd have returned in 2016 and Flowers would have had 2 years at RT before switching to replace WB, and maybe Hart installed at RT his college position.
the Giants can't fix everything, in one season....
It's like being a triage doctor, making the decision of who gets operated on/who doesn't, with limited facilities....you fix what you think is most necessary, and try to get by with what you have.....
now some may say, hey, we have cap space left over.....do we? That space may be put there, if a player is needed in an emergency during the season...or maybe, they are saving some cap money to roll over for next season's Giant free agents.....money is not allocated just year to year, it has to be prioritized over several.....if it isn't, you run into cap problems, and don't have that little extra to resign your own players, which has happened in the last several seasons at TE and DT.......
like Newhouse (and J. Jerry) on the right. Yet they drafted/signed a few RBs this off-season as though that will cure the running game. I hope JR realizes that it doesn't matter what RB they bring in, the running game is not going to improve until the team finds a RG/RT that can run block.
They are trying to build depth and improve the talent on the team even if they sign Monroe dos that give him the starting job? They may like Newsome and Flowers but the best way to see how good or bad a player is will always be to provide him with true competition. Not sure what will happen it's been a money, position and player concerns why they have not yet signed anyone. We still have all camp and the preseason to see what we have and what we may or may not need.
Im with manny too who i agree is a great football poster on BBI. We have an Erik Williams-like RT. Never underestimate the politics of pro football
The politics as they seem to me, is the Giants dont like going 1st round for OL unless they have to and if the guy is a top ten pick he practically has to be an LT.
Unfortunate bc the OL would take a hige step up if we had Okung or Monroe at LT and Flowers at RT. Who cares where a guy was drafted its about making your team as good as it can be.
Pipe down, learn to respectfully disagree and give your reasons for disagreement cogently.
Too many on this board bash posters just for the sake of bashing.....disagree and argue your point.....many don't have a clue....their answer is mainly name calling and generalizing....
These guys keep saying that the Giants ...
Beer Man : 6:52 am : link : reply
like Newhouse (and J. Jerry) on the right. Yet they drafted/signed a few RBs this off-season as though that will cure the running game.
I find it hard to believe, that Bobby Rainey was signed to solve the running game.....as for Perkins, Williams has not shown he can be a starting rb.....Jennings is getting older......Vereen is not really a running back...he is like a surprise for when the defense thinks it's a pass.....Darkwa gets dinged too often.....it was no surprise the Giants drafted a rb, because they NEEDED one......what was surprising was that Perkins was still on the board.....
Unless you are a Jim Brown/Earl Campbell/Bo Jackson type runner, you are only as good as your line.....will the line be better? This line has played together for almost a full season....and unless someone falls into their lap, that is what they are going with....as previously mentioned, you can't fix everything in one off season.....
A lot of people want Flowers to RT for 1 reason. He's a big SOB and can run block/mauler type.
Well, that's the NFL of yesteryear. The need for your RT to pass block very well is more and more important every year. I've read several Oline coaches and players say this. The RT role has changed somewhat over the last 10-15 years.
The only thing that does still puzzle me about the Giants thinking about the Oline is that they seem to seriously like Newhouse and think he's pretty good. Else, they would have used cash to grab a ROT at the start of the frenzied free agency period. Maybe have taken Schwartz's little brother.
I think RT is becoming a position that the Giants don't want to spend a lot of money on. Like you said, it is becoming a pass blocking position but it is also a position where you can help a pass blocker out with a TE or RB. So spending 1 million on Newhouse instead of 10 million on Mitchell Schwartz is an effective allocation of resources.
In other words, it is not that they wouldn't prefer to have Schwartz, it's just that the money can be spent more productively elsewhere.
Brought in Russell Okung, he told them he wanted to play left tackle, they told him no, then went to the Broncos for less money.
Now the have a chance to sign Monroe, and he's probably telling him the same thing.
They have a proto-type right tackle playing on the left (Flowers) and a shaky right tackle, so is there careful thought going on, in our front office ?
Nobody has questioned Reese as much as I but they view him as the LT. Monroe is never healthy and not going to ever get on bit better. Flowers not progressing may happen bit signing an old off injured player like Monroe is somehow sound thinking? Yeah. Brilliant
These guys keep saying that the Giants ...
Beer Man : 6:52 am : link : reply
like Newhouse (and J. Jerry) on the right. Yet they drafted/signed a few RBs this off-season as though that will cure the running game.
I find it hard to believe, that Bobby Rainey was signed to solve the running game.....as for Perkins, Williams has not shown he can be a starting rb.....Jennings is getting older......Vereen is not really a running back...he is like a surprise for when the defense thinks it's a pass.....Darkwa gets dinged too often.....it was no surprise the Giants drafted a rb, because they NEEDED one......what was surprising was that Perkins was still on the board.....
Unless you are a Jim Brown/Earl Campbell/Bo Jackson type runner, you are only as good as your line.....will the line be better? This line has played together for almost a full season....and unless someone falls into their lap, that is what they are going with....as previously mentioned, you can't fix everything in one off season.....
True, you can't fix everything in an off-season. But when your franchise QB is on the wrong side of thirty, the one area you don't put-off fixing is the OL. A good O-line and good running game are a QBs best friend.
Brought in Russell Okung, he told them he wanted to play left tackle, they told him no, then went to the Broncos for less money.
Now the have a chance to sign Monroe, and he's probably telling him the same thing.
They have a proto-type right tackle playing on the left (Flowers) and a shaky right tackle, so is there careful thought going on, in our front office ?
Brought in Russell Okung, he told them he wanted to play left tackle, they told him no, then went to the Broncos for less money.
Now the have a chance to sign Monroe, and he's probably telling him the same thing.
They have a proto-type right tackle playing on the left (Flowers) and a shaky right tackle, so is there careful thought going on, in our front office ?
I'm gonna go ahead and trust the Giants staff on what Flowers is capable of, over some cat named Manny that that watched a few drunken games from his couch.
Manny, as I understand from another here who knows him personally, has been watching football since before you were born I bet.
I often don't agree with Manny's viewpoints or opinions, but calling him "some drunken guy on a couch" is way outta line, junior.
Pipe down, learn to respectfully disagree and give your reasons for disagreement cogently.
It's perfectly valid to argue that the Giants might not be making the smartest move by sticking with Flowers at LT come hell or high water.
It's a free country, but that's our job (here at BBI) - to second-guess the heck out of everything the team does !
It's kind of like going to Vegas; sure you know, most likely you're going to lose your butt (cause they're smarter), but it makes it sweeter when you "skunk Da Man"
Brought in Russell Okung, he told them he wanted to play left tackle, they told him no, then went to the Broncos for less money.
Now the have a chance to sign Monroe, and he's probably telling him the same thing.
All I'm saying is that Flowers (as good as we all know he is), received the lowest PFF score for rookies.
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2015/12/giants_tackle_ereck_flowers_has_lowest_pro_footbal.html
I know he played through a lot of pain and an inexperienced pro. If Beatty hadn't hurt himself, we wouldn't be having this discussion, Flowers would have been on his way to becoming one of the best right tackles in the NFL.
As far as the Giants not wanting free agents "dictating" to them, Jerry's a Big Boy, I think he can take a shot to his ego, if it means getting a shot at player who can help the team make a playoff run.
Too many on this board bash posters just for the sake of bashing.....disagree and argue your point.....many don't have a clue....their answer is mainly name calling and generalizing....
Yes Eli the QB who was 2nd in the NFL in TDs with only 14 INTs & 4508 yards. With an average at best OL, no run game, Undrafted rookie TE & a 25 year old WR who couldn't even get a contract for 1.5 million.
The key is, stay healthy. Nothing puts lipstick on the pig that is a mediocre offensive line like a good qb and good coaching.
Fingers crossed.
If it was Joe Thomas or Tyron Smith & the Giants said no to them playing LT I'd say they are stupid. Not for Monroe or Okung.
BBI's come a long way, since the ball-bustin' "bad old days"
Reminds me of when I was "sub" teaching in high school Summer School. It was a math class. I noticed that the smartest kids in class were five boys in the back of the room (I was amazed how easy the subject matter came to them).
It was fine, they all finished their assignment way before the others. The problem was, they'd all jump out of their desks laughing and hitting each other in the crotch with closed fists ! I had to watch them like a hawk all Summer.
Yes Eli the QB who was 2nd in the NFL in TDs with only 14 INTs & 4508 yards. With an average at best OL, no run game, Undrafted rookie TE & a 25 year old WR who couldn't even get a contract for 1.5 million.
well said sir.
It's a cover up, like that Making a Murderer story. You sheeple will believe anything.
Ugh.
Well, that's the NFL of yesteryear. The need for your RT to pass block very well is more and more important every year. I've read several Oline coaches and players say this. The RT role has changed somewhat over the last 10-15 years.
If Flowers develops well, he'll be the Giants LOT for the next decade. It's harder to find a good LOT than a ROT.
Beatty, if never injured, would have been the LOT in 2015 and Flowers would have started at ROT. However, the Giants Flowers for future LOT and Beatty would have been cut/traded/moved this year.
The only thing that does still puzzle me about the Giants thinking about the Oline is that they seem to seriously like Newhouse and think he's pretty good. Else, they would have used cash to grab a ROT at the start of the frenzied free agency period. Maybe have taken Schwartz's little brother.
Well, that's the NFL of yesteryear. The need for your RT to pass block very well is more and more important every year. I've read several Oline coaches and players say this. The RT role has changed somewhat over the last 10-15 years.
If Flowers develops well, he'll be the Giants LOT for the next decade. It's harder to find a good LOT than a ROT.
Beatty, if never injured, would have been the LOT in 2015 and Flowers would have started at ROT. However, the Giants Flowers for future LOT and Beatty would have been cut/traded/moved this year.
The only thing that does still puzzle me about the Giants thinking about the Oline is that they seem to seriously like Newhouse and think he's pretty good. Else, they would have used cash to grab a ROT at the start of the frenzied free agency period. Maybe have taken Schwartz's little brother.
Vax, given healthy normal play from Beatty in 2015, I think he'd have returned in 2016 and Flowers would have had 2 years at RT before switching to replace WB, and maybe Hart installed at RT his college position.
If wishes were fishes...
It's like being a triage doctor, making the decision of who gets operated on/who doesn't, with limited facilities....you fix what you think is most necessary, and try to get by with what you have.....
now some may say, hey, we have cap space left over.....do we? That space may be put there, if a player is needed in an emergency during the season...or maybe, they are saving some cap money to roll over for next season's Giant free agents.....money is not allocated just year to year, it has to be prioritized over several.....if it isn't, you run into cap problems, and don't have that little extra to resign your own players, which has happened in the last several seasons at TE and DT.......
Im with manny too who i agree is a great football poster on BBI. We have an Erik Williams-like RT. Never underestimate the politics of pro football
Im with manny too who i agree is a great football poster on BBI. We have an Erik Williams-like RT. Never underestimate the politics of pro football
The politics as they seem to me, is the Giants dont like going 1st round for OL unless they have to and if the guy is a top ten pick he practically has to be an LT.
Unfortunate bc the OL would take a hige step up if we had Okung or Monroe at LT and Flowers at RT. Who cares where a guy was drafted its about making your team as good as it can be.
Too many on this board bash posters just for the sake of bashing.....disagree and argue your point.....many don't have a clue....their answer is mainly name calling and generalizing....
^^^^ THIS ... big time
Beer Man : 6:52 am : link : reply
like Newhouse (and J. Jerry) on the right. Yet they drafted/signed a few RBs this off-season as though that will cure the running game.
I find it hard to believe, that Bobby Rainey was signed to solve the running game.....as for Perkins, Williams has not shown he can be a starting rb.....Jennings is getting older......Vereen is not really a running back...he is like a surprise for when the defense thinks it's a pass.....Darkwa gets dinged too often.....it was no surprise the Giants drafted a rb, because they NEEDED one......what was surprising was that Perkins was still on the board.....
Unless you are a Jim Brown/Earl Campbell/Bo Jackson type runner, you are only as good as your line.....will the line be better? This line has played together for almost a full season....and unless someone falls into their lap, that is what they are going with....as previously mentioned, you can't fix everything in one off season.....
Well, that's the NFL of yesteryear. The need for your RT to pass block very well is more and more important every year. I've read several Oline coaches and players say this. The RT role has changed somewhat over the last 10-15 years.
The only thing that does still puzzle me about the Giants thinking about the Oline is that they seem to seriously like Newhouse and think he's pretty good. Else, they would have used cash to grab a ROT at the start of the frenzied free agency period. Maybe have taken Schwartz's little brother.
I think RT is becoming a position that the Giants don't want to spend a lot of money on. Like you said, it is becoming a pass blocking position but it is also a position where you can help a pass blocker out with a TE or RB. So spending 1 million on Newhouse instead of 10 million on Mitchell Schwartz is an effective allocation of resources.
In other words, it is not that they wouldn't prefer to have Schwartz, it's just that the money can be spent more productively elsewhere.
Brought in Russell Okung, he told them he wanted to play left tackle, they told him no, then went to the Broncos for less money.
Now the have a chance to sign Monroe, and he's probably telling him the same thing.
They have a proto-type right tackle playing on the left (Flowers) and a shaky right tackle, so is there careful thought going on, in our front office ?
Nobody has questioned Reese as much as I but they view him as the LT. Monroe is never healthy and not going to ever get on bit better. Flowers not progressing may happen bit signing an old off injured player like Monroe is somehow sound thinking? Yeah. Brilliant
Beer Man : 6:52 am : link : reply
like Newhouse (and J. Jerry) on the right. Yet they drafted/signed a few RBs this off-season as though that will cure the running game.
I find it hard to believe, that Bobby Rainey was signed to solve the running game.....as for Perkins, Williams has not shown he can be a starting rb.....Jennings is getting older......Vereen is not really a running back...he is like a surprise for when the defense thinks it's a pass.....Darkwa gets dinged too often.....it was no surprise the Giants drafted a rb, because they NEEDED one......what was surprising was that Perkins was still on the board.....
Unless you are a Jim Brown/Earl Campbell/Bo Jackson type runner, you are only as good as your line.....will the line be better? This line has played together for almost a full season....and unless someone falls into their lap, that is what they are going with....as previously mentioned, you can't fix everything in one off season.....
People live and die on PFF as being 100% facts..smart ones dont