Question for guys who think they know football!

can you use them effectively to blitz.

If you are a rookie on the field the Ball will find you.
Ask Collins last year. As a coach you chance the inexperience with the ability to learn on the fly and natural ability.

between rookie S and CB, you need to watch as much film on the 2 that you can prior to the game.

Then, based on your offensive play call & defensive alignment, the QB should have an idea where the most likely place for success will be.

Or, you can just take your chances and just randomly pick on the 2 during the game and see which rookie is more vulnerable.

BTW: I don't much football outside what I've learned over the years here.

I don't know much football

If they feel they havs an advantage. Look at Samuel when he was with the Eagles. Eli would pick on him. He wasn't a rookie. Also, teams do not just pick on one player all the time. They take their shots. If the Giants did have 2 rookies starting in the defensive backfield teams will test them but it doesn't mean they will be picked on. That second part happens if they cannot get the job done.

I know there are s lot of snaps for an offense in a game.

and you attack weaknesses.

Test them: Where do they line up? How do they handle combination routes? The double move? How do they react to speed? Can the QB bait them? Do they handle blockers effectively?

Once you know their tendencies, you try to exploit weaknesses, as with any player. It's just with rookies you expect there to be more and easier ways to take advantage.

How are you helping the players out? Do they even need help? Who are they lining up against? Are we going to play man or zone? If we play man then what kind of man coverage are we playing? If we play zone then what kind of zone are we playing? How is the offense going to try to attack this player? What type of offense does the opponent run? Are they a quick game offense? Are they a down field passing team? Do they have a solid running game? Do we need our secondary to help support the run? As you can see, there are so many variables that go into this.

If a corner needs help then you defense suffers a lot because you need another player to help out and it will probably limit your coverages. If that is the case then it probably limits your blitz packages too unless you have an aggressive coordinator that has the mentality that he wants the ball out of the QBs hands early, trusts the rush will get home, meaning the corner will have to cover for less time also meaning less of a chance of double moves by the receiver. The downside of that is if the blitz doesn't get home then that corner not only has to cover longer but really has to cover the whole field which is a difficult thing to do. If you want to protect your corners the main coverage played is a cover 2 where he has safety help over the top. However, players usually have a better style that they play coming out of college. If this is a man to man guy then he may really struggle in a cover 2 know when to pass a receiver off to the safety, when to stay with his man, when to break off to help out in the run game because cover 2 corners have to be able to do that, etc. If the player is really good at man then mentally the game becomes very easy but they need to be able to match up physically with NFL receivers. Once again, many variables are in play here. It is really hard to speak in generalities here.

snaps together in the secondary and I kind of hope they are good enough to make that happen.

They see on film. Being a rookie doesn't mean you're automatically a weakness

In comment 13008623 wgenesis123 said:

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snaps together in the secondary and I kind of hope they are good enough to make that happen.

Who will be the rookies playing a lot? Thompson and Apple? Honestly, the only way Apple sees a lot of time is if someone gets injured or one of Jenkins, DRC, or Apple is able to play the slot. The slot CB position is very very difficult therefore I do not see Apple playing there. That leaves DRC and Jenkins who are very capable but they have never really played there before and we all know that teaching an old dog new tricks is not always the easiest thing. So, imo, it is a longshot that Apple will get a lot of time this year.

I get the feeling the coaches are looking at ways to get Apple more snaps by rotating the corners a bit. If they do sign a good slot CB and that could be a big if, Apple's snaps will suffer I think.

Watching these players develope though promises to get interesting as the season progresses.

But that doesn't mean they will force him on the field. They will put the player that give them the best chance of winning on the field. You cannot think of the slot corner position as the same as an outside corner position. I do not think anybody does. However, tbey shouldn't both be considered corner positions. They are drastically different. It is like starting a G at T. Some Gs can play T but it isn't always ideal. We say OL but we very clearly have 3 different groups of players. Jenkins, DRC, and Apple are very clearly outside guys. That doesn't mean any of them will be best suited inside. Our best inside guy could be a safety like Jackson or Mykkele Thompson.

Daeyton has gotten a lot of positive writeups but the guy is like 170. If he is our slot guy then teams like Philly will force us into a nickel defense and have Jordan Matthews in the slot. That would be a clear advantage for them and I am not even talking about the passing game. They would havd a clear advantage in the running game. That slot corner is asked to not only cover guys like Matthews but also guys like Edelman. He is expaected to be able to blitz from that spot and he is a key component of the run game.

He is a realistic slot guy. He can play there to matchup with receivers and have them one on one but not as an every down slot guy. Jenkins could but if DRC gets hurt then your outside guys would be Jenkins and Apple. So, they really need that 4th guy to be able to lock up that spot just in case because there will be a lot of musical chairs if one of these 3 corners gets hurt and coaches hate that.

because he is a number ten pick. I would love him to play from day one, but not if its going to hurt the team and the player.

but the '81 49ers started 3 rookie DBs (OK, one was Ronnie Lott). That team went 13-3 and won the super bowl.

In comment 13008623 wgenesis123 said:

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snaps together in the secondary and I kind of hope they are good enough to make that happen.

In 1981 Bill Walsh and the 9ers drafted Ronnie Lott, Eric Wright, and Carlton Williamson together making 3/4 rookies in their secondary and they were great together. Of course they also added Fred Dean to their pass rush and already had a fine pass coverage LB on the squad named Keena Turner.

One hopes Darian Thompson's smarts allow him to play more like a vet than a rookie. And if Deayon sees the field with Thompson (as a 3rd or 4th CB), you hope their experience together in college is a + factor.

In comment 13008698 aquidneck said:

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but the '81 49ers started 3 rookie DBs (OK, one was Ronnie Lott). That team went 13-3 and won the super bowl.

Dammit stole my thunder by seconds. Wright IIRC was a 3rd round pick and a great man cover guy. Williamson was a pleasant surprise in the 6th round at SS. What position did Lott play? Wasn't Dwight Hicks their FS that year? Was Lott at CB to start?

Lott played the game. Could never find fault with the Giants for not picking him though, the guy they picked was pretty good too.

is the constant highlights of him picking off passes. He ran a few back for TD's too if I remember correctly.

In comment 13008720 wgenesis123 said:

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is the constant highlights of him picking off passes. He ran a few back for TD's too if I remember correctly.

My memory sucks, but that was a silly good draft class. The 9ers drafted Lott, Wright and Williamson 1, 2, 3. The Giants got LT obviously, then a few whiffs, but Bill Neil in the 5th, Billy And in the 8th and Byron Hunt in the 9th...

Washington drafted Mark May in the 1st, Russ Grimm in the 2nd or 3rd, Dexter Manly in the 5th...

The LB class was SICK! Besides LT, the LBs Singletary, Hugh Green, Ricky Jackson, EJ Junior...

Howie Long, Kenny Easly...

Lot of All Pros and HOF players.

Well Thank you guys, I have to go to a barbecue, got a nude water volley ball tournament to play in. Sun is shining, should be a good day.

In comment 13008774 wgenesis123 said:

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Well Thank you guys, I have to go to a barbecue, got a nude water volley ball tournament to play in. Sun is shining, should be a good day.

Callie Bundy at that volleyball tournament by any chance?

Then what the 49ers did to then rookie safety Steve Atwater in the 89 super bowl ,attack with play action and boy did they have the personnel to do it with and That worries me about putting in this rookie Darien Thompson

The good thing is he has a knack for the ball which may help his recovery if he bites on the play fake !

they started Ronnie Lott and Eric Wright, two rookies, at corner and went to the Super Bowl, mostly because of the improved play of the defense with both these guys major contributors.

In 1989, we started Myron Guyton and Greg Jackson at safety. Guyton was a rookie and Jackson a second year player but first year starter. The year before, we started Jumbo at LT and Eric Moore at RG, both rookies. We went 10-6 in 1988 and 12-4 in 1989.

If you are good and are coached properly, rookies can start and be successful. I have no problem with rookies starting...Diehl was a fifth round pick and started from day one. Snee was a 2nd rounder and started from day one. If you are a player, there is no issue.

In comment 13008878 NikkiMac said:

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Then what the 49ers did to then rookie safety Steve Atwater in the 89 super bowl ,attack with play action and boy did they have the personnel to do it with and That worries me about putting in this rookie Darien Thompson The good thing is he has a knack for the ball which may help his recovery if he bites on the play fake !

Nobody here is gonna complain






If our rookie FS Darian Thompson bites on a play fake in this year's Super bowl.







Nevermind, it's BBI and on a game thread plenty of idiots will rip Thompson a new orifice for such a mistake..

You have to read your keys. If you read your keys correctly a player will not bite on playaction. Thompson seems to have that in spades with his head in the game and doing the right thing. However, there is one thing that can fuck with that and that is not being able to trust the front 7 to stop the run. If your front 7 guys do a bad job at stopping the run, particularly up the gut, then you start putting more of an emphasis on helping out in the run game and less on the pass game. If you are unsure of what your keys tell you then either that step forward or hesitation will be the difference between making a play and giving up a play or discouraging a pass attempt and having a QB take a shot in your direction. I feel with our DL we shouldn't see too many runs up the gut meaning Thompson should be able to play pass almost 100% of the time. That means if he is unsure of his keys then he just maintains his backpedal and should not bite on playaction. One negative of Thompson was he wasn't a great open field tackler. I watched some clips of him. He looks like an aggressive tackler. He can tackle. But having missed guys in the open field tells me he likes to stay deep first which is a good thing in terms of what we are talking about now with biting on playaction.

I just hope Thompson breaks the Giants' recent third round jinx. Jury still out on Bromley and double O, but what a sucks run from Mario Manningham until now if Bromley and OO aren't the real deal.

Going back to 2005 when we landed Tuck in the 3rd..

2005 Tuck +++ key member 2 SB champs
2006 Wilkinson 0 due to injuries...
2007 Alford + but injury nailed his career shut
2008 Manningham ++ key player on 2011 champions, heckuva #3 WR, could be a #2 on many clubs.
2009 Two total whiffs Barden and Beckum
2010 Chad Jones 0 injury b4 starting, thought that was a great 1,2,3 with JPP and Joseph..
2011 Jernigan, just writing his name turns my stomach
2012 Hosley ditto
2013 DaMontre Moore talented shit for brains
2014 Bromley ?
2015 Owa ?
2016 Thompson so far so good...

Since Mario, 6 picks in 5 years through 2013 just awful.

regarding rookies playing CB and safety, the best thing to do is have a dominant front. If you can stop the run and get to the QB quickly, it will significantly reduce the chances (and opportunities) that your rookie CB and safety will be picked on. Plus, you will be able to keep another guy or two back to help them if your guys up front are getting the job done with no extra help.

teams attacked all the time our defense sucked. So no worries we will be much improved this season.

and get good answers. I see another thread where someone overseas is asking about Shepard and getting lots of positive answers. I don't know why we don't do this more, we all have a similiar passion for the Giants. I guess BBI is a little like brothers. There will always be days you beat on each other.