NFT: NY Knicks-Not on Durants list of initial teams to meet...

the more I want Whiteside. He's still a very young player(in terms of experience), he's a defensive minded player who rebounds and doesn't require the ball in the paint. He will clean up on Rose's drives to the hoop. Plus, the Knicks need only 1 big to play in the post when they get into their set and Lopez usually took that position away from KP, but Whiteside isn't that guy. He can play on the backside and just clean up on the glass.

He's going to get the max, but I think he's worth it. He averaged 14 and 12 and 4 blocks per game. I think he's a perfect big next to KP and with a slasher like Rose.

We have a tendancy to overeact to these reports when many times they are misinformation or do not accurately paint the whole picture.

What we do know:

Its been confirmed he is working out with Melo right now and that they are very very close.It also sounds like hes doing all his interviewing out of New York. I have seen multiple reports he wanted the Knicks to improve their backcourt to consider them. With that said, I would be amazed if we dont get a legit in depth meeting and strong consideration.

He just saw Lebron leave Miami and bring a championship to a city he loves. If he thinks he can win one here (Melo,KP,Rose and Durant if healthy is a 4 some up there with any in the NBA) we have a shot at this.

Obviously adding him to SA or GS (or staying in OKC) would make those teams pretty unstoppable too but one can not discount NY as a very favorable situation at this point as well.

It could come down to what the additional peices will be around the big 4. Some of the biggest weakness would be a defensive stopper at the 5 (Noah but will he sign for less to fit both?) and getting a guy that can play some legit SG minutes (preferably a strong defender)

position due to the roster, playing in the East and finally having competent leadership in the front office, but.......I'm not sure people on the outside feel the same way. Draft night we heard many people laugh at the notion that the Knicks can offer anything that would entice Durant. The Knicks are a 30 win team to these guys. Yes they added Rose, but is that enough to change the perception?

I thought the Knicks would get a meeting based solely on his relationship with Melo. I guess time will tell.

I'm under no illusions about signing Durant, but we know that Phil operates in secret much of the time.

In comment 13008687 Keith said:

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the more I want Whiteside. He's still a very young player(in terms of experience), he's a defensive minded player who rebounds and doesn't require the ball in the paint. He will clean up on Rose's drives to the hoop. Plus, the Knicks need only 1 big to play in the post when they get into their set and Lopez usually took that position away from KP, but Whiteside isn't that guy. He can play on the backside and just clean up on the glass. He's going to get the max, but I think he's worth it. He averaged 14 and 12 and 4 blocks per game. I think he's a perfect big next to KP and with a slasher like Rose.

He's a gamble but I agree I think he is worth taking a chance on if they lose out on KD which is very likely. Whiteside is young and could still get better. He would solidify the center position for years and allow Porzingis to remain at PF.

It's the "Knicks Way" to get bashed in the media and I fully understand why. Phil gets bashed, but it's proven to be all BS. None of these writers are clued into what he is thinking or doing. Over time, they will back off.

In the past, these guys would get bashed by the writers and then the writers were proven to be correct because everyone has been incompetent. It's different now.

And are very short term judgemental.

Rose granted has dealt with a few injuries but second half of last season he was 'serious ballin' and still only 80% by his own admission.

Guys in the league who have played against him still think extremely highly of his game. Believe it or not, Derrick if healthy could be the best player on the team next year.

Rose is a ball dominant PG who slashes and creates space for guys that can shoot. Bigs that crash the boards will clean up with Rose slashing so much. KP who has already proven to be a beast at crashing and following up on misses paired with Whiteside who is long and similarly explosive would be fantastic. Whiteside and KP would provide a ton of length in the paint, but with KP's range and hopefully improved ability to play with his back to the basket, I think it would fit like a glove.

A starting 4 that consists of Rose, Melo, KD & KP is very good though. The Knicks have all their picks from this point forward & a ton of cap space next year. You also have to sell KP's progression. He was a guy who wasn't supposed to make an impact for 3 years. Yet came in & played well on the offensive & defensive end. He should only get better with experience & added strength.

Also if he comes to NY & wins he's a God here. An even bigger basketball legend. I don't know how much that matters to him. To me personally that's a challenge I'd want to take on. Him winning 1 here is equivalent to winning 3 with GS, Miami, OKC.

Believe it or not, Derrick if healthy could be the best player on the team next year.

He's a former MVP that has carried his team to a ton of regular season success on his back. He's got the most talent on the team, that's for sure.

Hes a very special player, but he doesn't really fit. There is only 1 bball and he and Melo would play very similar roles.

Whiteside makes a ton sense. I still think that number 2 position will be crucial. You definitely need a defensive presence in the back court but having another guy that can hit the three ball would be great. I am so sick of having a back court of guys that cannot defend. It puts too much stress on your front court. Having Whiteside and Porzingis would give us great rim protection and help defense and Melo is no slouch himself but it always comes down to guard play in today's NBA.

Is a dream scenario that isn't going to happen.

The Knicks need to get good solid all around players & hope KP takes that next step.

IF they were to sign a center(specifically Whiteside), I'd hope their next goal is a wing defender. Doesn't need to be a superstar, but a wing defender that can hit an open 3. Is prime Bruce Bowen available?

New Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek said he's talked to Carmelo Anthony about "running the court a little bit more" next season to get opportunities in transition. "He does it at times," Hornacek said Thursday. The coach added that he's seen instances where Anthony "would've gotten a 3-point shot off but (he was) so far back in the trail position that (he wasn't) ready when the kick-out came. He knows that if he can get the ball up the court a little bit quicker, we can push the ball up to him, attack a little bit quicker. So I think he knows that's part of that. Other than that, the guy's a great player. So we want him to continue what he's been doing." Hornacek also said Anthony wanted to strengthen his legs this offseason, after his first full season following knee surgery.

In comment 13008717 Keith said:

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Believe it or not, Derrick if healthy could be the best player on the team next year. He's a former MVP that has carried his team to a ton of regular season success on his back. He's got the most talent on the team, that's for sure.

Lol I just dont think alot of folks have wrapped their head around that yet! 27 years old , middle of his prime and flashed big time in the second half last year his old dominant self.

Even if we dont get Durant, a fully healthy trio of Rose,KP and Melo with some smart Phil spending to round out the roster should be quite formidible next year with finally hopefully a legit coach in Hornacek.

I saw him on Lip Sync Battle and the big guy can still move. Lol.

so people view Rose as a broken down has been. That's not necessarily reality though. He's battled injuries, but he's still young and immensely talented. He's going to be healthy next year, bank on it. He's motivated by money(most people are) and he's in a contract year.

In comment 13008721 Keith said:

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Hes a very special player, but he doesn't really fit. There is only 1 bball and he and Melo would play very similar roles.

Dont Klay and Curry play somewhat similiar roles? The right offensive system is the key here. It can be done quite successfully.

The knicks but he is doing meetings in new york, he is close to Melo and rose, the knicks will get a meeting

And trust me I don't believe for a second he would come to the Knicks. So he's taking all of these meetings in NYC and yet he's not meeting with the Knicks? I can't think of one player douchy enough to crap on the Knicks like that let alone Durant who seems like decent guy.

Who can drive.

He handles the rock. They both have similar strengths(shooting ability, quick release, always open), but def not similar roles. Not to mention, they are the only 2 guys that need the ball in their hands. The other guys are role players that get touches off of that.

With the Knicks, Rose is going to handle the ball and he's going to get his. He's going to create space for Melo off of that.

In comment 13008742 Keith said:

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He handles the rock. They both have similar strengths(shooting ability, quick release, always open), but def not similar roles. Not to mention, they are the only 2 guys that need the ball in their hands. The other guys are role players that get touches off of that. With the Knicks, Rose is going to handle the ball and he's going to get his. He's going to create space for Melo off of that.

PG main role is to create the best play within the offensive system. Proper spacing and movement with guys who play outside can usually work. Its when you have too many guys with post up games when it becomes a problem. Melo,KD and Kristaps all have strong outside and pretty good mid range games. In the right system with proper spacing amd motion that trio would be deadly.

Or a passer when motion gets one of the other better shooters a wide open look.

They could only dream about last year, sure Melo will still isola and post up but the shots he will get off of Rose's dribble drive are going to be like Olympic Melo

If rose is healthy it is actually a really good fit

First off, great players will figure out ways to be great. All those guys would manage to fit, I'm just saying it's not the greatest fit in terms of style and abilities. Both Melo and KD would have to swallow their pride a ton to make it work.

Regarding Rose...I agree that he's a great fit. He slashes and breaks down the defense all game. If he has a lane, he will take it to the rim and KP will be there to clean up. If the defense collapses, Melo will get the ball with a ton of space.

In comment 13008749 nygiants16 said:

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They could only dream about last year, sure Melo will still isola and post up but the shots he will get off of Rose's dribble drive are going to be like Olympic Melo If rose is healthy it is actually a really good fit

Yeah Olympic Melo might be a good comp. What are your thoughts on ball sharing if KD were to also come?

My guess is more liberal rotations and Melo playing closer to 30 minutes rather than 40. Also better spacing and Rose mainly driving or passing, and shooting more judiciously when wide open.

In on the top FAs?

which will open up a ton of easy looks for those that run with Rose. In our half court, we are going to post up KP a lot, IMO. I'm really hoping this is where he makes his progress the most. I hope he's been working on his back to the basket game because last year he looked like......well, a rookie. He very clearly has ability there, but needs to get stronger and needs to learn how to be more aggressive. Having a PG that gets him the ball in good spots will certainly help because this is where we lacked the most last year, IMO.

Rose will be slashing plenty and then kicking it out to KP or Melo or whoever is at SG.

In comment 13008772 robbieballs2003 said:

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In on the top FAs?

Organizational stability, the best coach in the game and tons of success.

You get to play with a legendary coach and legendary player. 15 plus years of success and a system that works. Not to mention the pressure isn't as much there as it would be elsewhere because of the talent distribution

But I really hope that one day the Knicks get it right to shut up all these media cunts that love to bash them

In comment 13008779 Tuckrule said:

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You get to play with a legendary coach and legendary player. 15 plus years of success and a system that works. Not to mention the pressure isn't as much there as it would be elsewhere because of the talent distribution

I am talking about financially. I get if that players take discounts to go there but it continually happens. At some point they cannot be in on these top guys.

Melo and Rose stay healthy and Phil uses our cap wisely, next years team should be anywhere from a hard fought first round exit to a team that can legitimately battle to come out of the East.

Marshall Plumlee has agreed to a guaranteed deal with the Knicks.

The undrafted senior out of Duke is the younger brother of Mason and Miles. He averaged 8.3 points, 8.6 boards and 1.6 blocks during his senior season, but it's hard to imagine him making an immediate impact if he makes the final roster in New York.

In comment 13008790 robbieballs2003 said:

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In comment 13008779 Tuckrule said: Quote: You get to play with a legendary coach and legendary player. 15 plus years of success and a system that works. Not to mention the pressure isn't as much there as it would be elsewhere because of the talent distribution I am talking about financially. I get if that players take discounts to go there but it continually happens. At some point they cannot be in on these top guys.

well, ginobili, Parker, and Duncan have all been on very team friendly contracts. Ginobili just opted out, so he'll probably be back on an even more team friendly deal to finish his career. As the old heads retire they'll continue to have cap space considering how the cap is escalating.

talent around their superstars is because their superstars weren't solely motivated by making every possible penny that they could.

Or more realistically, come here at all? The Knicks situation is infinitely worse then any of the ones you names him taking meetings for. No shot KD ties his legacy to Rose and Melos knees and a 21 year old big man.

He should probably tie his legacy to Dwayne Wades young knees and Chris Bosh's incredible health.

In comment 13008799 Sgrcts said:

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Or more realistically, come here at all? The Knicks situation is infinitely worse then any of the ones you names him taking meetings for. No shot KD ties his legacy to Rose and Melos knees and a 21 year old big man.

Because hope.

Looks bad if he goes & joins the unanimous MVP, Draymond & Klay. The same thing if he goes to the Spurs to join the best PF ever, Kawhi, Aldridge, Parker & Ginobli.

Just look at LeBron getting killed while in Miami. Then joining a losing franchise & being a hero.

Basically the same thing with Durant. If he joins GS or SA he couldn't do it himself. If he joins the Knicks & wins a title he is a legend.

In comment 13008802 Keith said:

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He should probably tie his legacy to Dwayne Wades young knees and Chris Bosh's incredible health.

Or at least a franchise which has shown the ability to be well run year after year. Wades knees are bad but he's shown himself to still be a productive player. Let me know when Rose does that. Bosh, if he can't play anymore, won't be on their cap next year. And Miami and Riley have proven time and again they are a FA destination, which the Knicks have never proven and the jury is still out on Phil for sure. So yea, not really comparable.

In comment 13008742 Keith said:

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He handles the rock. They both have similar strengths(shooting ability, quick release, always open), but def not similar roles. Not to mention, they are the only 2 guys that need the ball in their hands. The other guys are role players that get touches off of that. With the Knicks, Rose is going to handle the ball and he's going to get his. He's going to create space for Melo off of that.

That's not how GS plays at all. They have 3 primary ball handlers - Curry, Klay and Green. Since Kerr has come on, Curry plays significantly more off the ball.

They play a much more system-based approach and at speed. Klay has a bit less playmaking responsibility, but for the most part, everyone on the squad is cutting and making passes. There's no singular player whose primary responsibility is distribution.

In comment 13008807 Big Rick in FL said:

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Looks bad if he goes & joins the unanimous MVP, Draymond & Klay. The same thing if he goes to the Spurs to join the best PF ever, Kawhi, Aldridge, Parker & Ginobli. Just look at LeBron getting killed while in Miami. Then joining a losing franchise & being a hero. Basically the same thing with Durant. If he joins GS or SA he couldn't do it himself. If he joins the Knicks & wins a title he is a legend.

Lebron was still one of the 2-3 most popular athletes in the world in Miami. In 15 years when KD is retired no one will discuss what his FA decisions were but they will discuss how many rings he has.

Nobody was going to look back on LeBron's career 10 years from now and think he isn't a top 5 all time player because needed a team around him to win a championship. This legacy talk is purely for sports talk show purposes.


When he retires, it'll be with at least 3 championships to his name. Nobody's going to itemize them.

In comment 13008809 Sgrcts said:

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In comment 13008802 Keith said: Quote: He should probably tie his legacy to Dwayne Wades young knees and Chris Bosh's incredible health. Or at least a franchise which has shown the ability to be well run year after year. Wades knees are bad but he's shown himself to still be a productive player. Let me know when Rose does that. Bosh, if he can't play anymore, won't be on their cap next year. And Miami and Riley have proven time and again they are a FA destination, which the Knicks have never proven and the jury is still out on Phil for sure. So yea, not really comparable.

So Melo just isn't factored in at all? He's fairly productive. The Heat can lose Bosh and then spend wisely, but the Knicks can't spend their $40M?

Cmon. I understand the negativity, but just be fair.

I'm not even entertaining the thought of landing Durant. Why not shift the attention to Whiteside? People are complaining about losing Lopez's defense, Whiteside throws his own block party night in and night out. A 4/5 of KP and Whiteside is a nightmare for teams that like to finish at the rim.

At SG find a good value 3 and D player. The bottom line is that Rose/Melo will do plenty of scoring and KP is a great 3rd option. Find guys that do the intangibles and can knockdown open shots.

KD to the Celts makes the most sense; Cs a good team to begin with & it's the weaker of the two conferences.

KD signing with SA or GS would suck from a competitive standpoint.

other than when the big 3 conspired to play together with Wade?

My only point is that if you are going to knock the knicks as an option and laugh at the thought that Durant would entertain it, but then suggest Miami is a great options...something is wrong.

In comment 13008822 Reeses Pieces said:

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I'm not even entertaining the thought of landing Durant. Why not shift the attention to Whiteside? People are complaining about losing Lopez's defense, Whiteside throws his own block party night in and night out. A 4/5 of KP and Whiteside is a nightmare for teams that like to finish at the rim. At SG find a good value 3 and D player. The bottom line is that Rose/Melo will do plenty of scoring and KP is a great 3rd option. Find guys that do the intangibles and can knockdown open shots.

Whiteside is a stat stuffer. He's known to ignore his defensive responsibilities to go all in on blocks. That was the good part about RoLo - he did all the necessary shit that didn't get any of the acclaim.

The way the Knicks are built, as far as their key players, spending a max on Whiteside or any other center is a waste of money. RoLo was the perfect fit for the team at a great price. I think Noah would be a very good fit, although I'm partial to Pau if only because he adds a bit more offensively, and he would be a huge help in developing Hernangomez, if only from a translating and cultural assimilation perspective. And I think Phil and the FO believe that Willy can grow into a decent rotational piece.

In comment 13008834 Aspano! said:

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In comment 13008822 Reeses Pieces said: Quote: I'm not even entertaining the thought of landing Durant. Why not shift the attention to Whiteside? People are complaining about losing Lopez's defense, Whiteside throws his own block party night in and night out. A 4/5 of KP and Whiteside is a nightmare for teams that like to finish at the rim. At SG find a good value 3 and D player. The bottom line is that Rose/Melo will do plenty of scoring and KP is a great 3rd option. Find guys that do the intangibles and can knockdown open shots. Whiteside is a stat stuffer. He's known to ignore his defensive responsibilities to go all in on blocks. That was the good part about RoLo - he did all the necessary shit that didn't get any of the acclaim. The way the Knicks are built, as far as their key players, spending a max on Whiteside or any other center is a waste of money. RoLo was the perfect fit for the team at a great price. I think Noah would be a very good fit, although I'm partial to Pau if only because he adds a bit more offensively, and he would be a huge help in developing Hernangomez, if only from a translating and cultural assimilation perspective. And I think Phil and the FO believe that Willy can grow into a decent rotational piece.

Man, I find myself disagreeing with almost everything you say(or see), haha. First off, regarding GS. Now regarding Whiteside. I believe the opposite to be true on both, but we can just agree to disagree.

At least you're not a douche about disagreeing (and I hope I'm not either!), which helps in having a good discussion.

My thinking is that KP at this point is more suited for the 4, but if the team wants to go "small," then KP can slide in at the 5. For that reason, I think they need a big-bodied 5 who can do the little things and is ok playing 20 - 25 minutes a night.

I agree with that assessment. I think KP is best suited as a 4 who will play center plenty in smaller lineups. The perfect 5 will play 25-30 mins a night and should be a defensive/rebounding specialist who cleans up in the paint. To me, that's Whiteside. He will get overpaid considering his skill set and he might be a risk to play late in games, but he just fits, IMO.

In comment 13008854 Keith said:

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I agree with that assessment. I think KP is best suited as a 4 who will play center plenty in smaller lineups. The perfect 5 will play 25-30 mins a night and should be a defensive/rebounding specialist who cleans up in the paint. To me, that's Whiteside. He will get overpaid considering his skill set and he might be a risk to play late in games, but he just fits, IMO.

Whiteside wouldn't be a bad option, sure, but do you really want to max a guy who's gonna play 25 minutes a night, and who you need to take out in the end of games due to his crappy free throw shooting?

To me, Whiteside makes much more sense for a team that has a rotational/role player type piece at the 4.

would be a terrible call. He's whiny and petulant, and beyond that, was benched for major stretched by the Heat. There's even talk if the team is better without him. That's not someone I give a max contract to.

I have to admit, I'm awfully disappointed to not get a meeting while the Clippers without cap space, Heat, and Cs are.

Durant is going to LA because it is home to him since he lived there and "went to college out there".

He actually grew up in the DC area and went to college at Texas.

Just like the proposed Noah deal out there yesterday. Don't believe everything you read.

Knicks are getting a meeting.

In comment 13008871 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

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Just like the proposed Noah deal out there yesterday. Don't believe everything you read. Knicks are getting a meeting.

I have no doubt that NY will get a KD meeting. However, i'm being nice when saying NY is a longshot to sign him. Other teams are constructed better and have proven they can win.

In comment 13008871 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

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Just like the proposed Noah deal out there yesterday. Don't believe everything you read. Knicks are getting a meeting.

Thanks for the insider info! Knicks 2016 championship!

BTW, these types of statements and blind hope are why our fans are the laughingstock of many NBA circles.

In comment 13008828 Keith said:

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other than when the big 3 conspired to play together with Wade?

Heat have signed a lot of big time FA's over the years, from Brian Grant to Lamar Odom to Eddie Jones, and they signed the biggest FA in NBA history.

They have amazing weather in the winter, a proven winner as GM, a consistent organization and no income tax.

As far as Melo goes, sure he makes a difference, but no one of importance has ever signed with a Melo team. The Knicks have been a bad team and havent made the playoffs in 3 years. Derrick Rose has played 166 games since 2011. KP is 21.

Why would KD come here again?

and perception, but the chances that he comes here are so slim. I hope that when everyone else is trying to woo Durant, we are focused on getting Whiteside who is a great fit. The kid(and he's most certainly a kid in terms of experience and minutes) is continually progressing and got better as the season went on. He wasn't always great early on, but he was later in the season. His FT shooting improved to 65% as well, so it's not that bad where we can't play him late in games should we need to.

In comment 13008896 Sgrcts said:

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In comment 13008828 Keith said: Quote: other than when the big 3 conspired to play together with Wade? Heat have signed a lot of big time FA's over the years, from Brian Grant to Lamar Odom to Eddie Jones, and they signed the biggest FA in NBA history. They have amazing weather in the winter, a proven winner as GM, a consistent organization and no income tax. As far as Melo goes, sure he makes a difference, but no one of importance has ever signed with a Melo team. The Knicks have been a bad team and havent made the playoffs in 3 years. Derrick Rose has played 166 games since 2011. KP is 21. Why would KD come here again?

Wow, they sure have proven to be a great FA destination of late. Some solid examples. Other than when the big 3 conspired, you got nothing.

Again, I never said KD was coming here. Just taking issue with your statement that was just wrong. You said all of the other teams offer more and would be beneficial to his legacy. You went on to say that he wouldn't tie his legacy to Rose and Melo due to injuries but he would with Miami. It made no sense. I don't think KD is coming here and I'm not too worried about it either. We are finally in a great position where we have game changing players and tons of cap space. The knicks will be a fun place to play moving forward.

is unlike say the Lakers or the Heat, no big time FA's ever have picked the Knicks. Amare was one, but we were the only team willing to give him a max deal since he was uninsurable. Tyson is the only other one in the last 20 years, but we bumbled that anyway. At least with Tyson though the Knicks theoretically looked like an ascending team. Before those guys- Allan Houston? I mean, our history with FA signings is pretty bad, yet year after year Knicks fans pretend as if we have some appeal to them.

In comment 13008901 Keith said:

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In comment 13008896 Sgrcts said: Quote: In comment 13008828 Keith said: Quote: other than when the big 3 conspired to play together with Wade? Heat have signed a lot of big time FA's over the years, from Brian Grant to Lamar Odom to Eddie Jones, and they signed the biggest FA in NBA history. They have amazing weather in the winter, a proven winner as GM, a consistent organization and no income tax. As far as Melo goes, sure he makes a difference, but no one of importance has ever signed with a Melo team. The Knicks have been a bad team and havent made the playoffs in 3 years. Derrick Rose has played 166 games since 2011. KP is 21. Why would KD come here again? Wow, they sure have proven to be a great FA destination of late. Some solid examples. Other than when the big 3 conspired, you got nothing. Again, I never said KD was coming here. Just taking issue with your statement that was just wrong. You said all of the other teams offer more and would be beneficial to his legacy. You went on to say that he wouldn't tie his legacy to Rose and Melo due to injuries but he would with Miami. It made no sense. I don't think KD is coming here and I'm not too worried about it either. We are finally in a great position where we have game changing players and tons of cap space. The knicks will be a fun place to play moving forward.

Eddie Jones and Lamar Odom are nothing? Do you watch basketball?

Tossing away the fact that Lebron James went there as if its irrelevant is pretty amusing.

but we've been a joke. Not so much moving forward. That being said, stop trying to make this about me saying Durant will come to the knicks. I was calling out your ridiculous statement that made no sense. That's all.

RE Whiteside:

Pat Riley said that Hassan Whiteside hasn't reached his ceiling yet.

"He’s 26 years old, he’s a game changer. I don’t think he’s even reached his real ceiling in a couple of areas of the game," Riley said. "And I think that now he’ll be more comfortable once his situation ends." Riley has said that Whiteside will be the Heat's No. 1 priority this offseason, but the big man will likely be a first-round pick in fantasy next season regardless of where he lands in free agency. May 22 - 10:01 AM

basketball a lot. It would be nice if the knicks can put a watchable product on the court.

is my ridiculous statement, and where has the appeal of NY been proven? The Knicks haven't won a championship in over 30 years. They've by and large been a laughingstock for all of the 21st century. Show me the appeal.

Was he not released by the Grizzlies and then signed a league min contract with Miami? Is that really some big FA haul?

Unless a NY team is throwing the most money at a player, in all 3 sports I follow NYC has yet to really be shown as some sort of huge draw for free agents. Players follow money and winning, they don't care about NYC. Its been proven year after year.

In comment 13008907 Sgrcts said:

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Tossing away the fact that Lebron James went there as if its irrelevant is pretty amusing.

He never "tossed away" that LJ played here. You're reading comprehension is "almost" as worse as your basketball acumen.

From Keith

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Wow, they sure have proven to be a great FA destination of late. Some solid examples. Other than when the big 3 conspired, you got nothing.

In comment 13008914 Keith said:

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Was he not released by the Grizzlies and then signed a league min contract with Miami? Is that really some big FA haul?

He was- but that was the second time he signed with Miami. First time he was coming off an all star season with the Hornets. He put up 20, 4.8, 4.2 and led the league in steals to boot.

Why would KD take a meeting with the Knicks?
Sgrcts : 11:17 am : link : reply

Or more realistically, come here at all? The Knicks situation is infinitely worse then any of the ones you names him taking meetings for. No shot KD ties his legacy to Rose and Melos knees and a 21 year old big man.


I don't see how the Knicks situation is infinitely worse than Miami. Because Eddie Jones signed a league min deal in 2007?

.

the first time. They didn't sign him.

In comment 13008918 Canton said:

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In comment 13008907 Sgrcts said: Quote: Tossing away the fact that Lebron James went there as if its irrelevant is pretty amusing. He never "tossed away" that LJ played here. You're reading comprehension is "almost" as worse as your basketball acumen. From Keith Quote: Wow, they sure have proven to be a great FA destination of late. Some solid examples. Other than when the big 3 conspired, you got nothing.

Sure- and the Knicks are a big time free agent destination, we're just waiting for that one franchise guy to sign with us!

.

you are arguing something I never said. I am arguing something that you just said. I am not suggesting that the Knicks are a great destination(I do think that next year will be different). I do however think there is an appeal to playing in the Garden, but unfortunately in the past, we have been so poorly run that the team and decisions made that a moot point.

In comment 13008923 Keith said:

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the first time. They didn't sign him.

Ah your right, my memory failed me on that one. Regardless, Miami is a proven FA destination, and even if you don't understand why, the fact KD gave them a meeting and hasn't yet with the Knicks proves that FA's take the Heat far more seriously.

In comment 13008931 Keith said:

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you are arguing something I never said. I am arguing something that you just said. I am not suggesting that the Knicks are a great destination(I do think that next year will be different). I do however think there is an appeal to playing in the Garden, but unfortunately in the past, we have been so poorly run that the team and decisions made that a moot point.

What will make next year different?

1. So you tried to prove that Miami is a great FA destination by mentioning a guy that wasn't a FA, yet you are still going to parrot the statement? My point is that the big 3 was an aberration. They conspired to play together and that was the only place it could happen. Other than that, they certainly have not proven to be a great destination for FA's.

2. Why not wait to see how this unfolds. What happens when the Knicks DO get a meeting?

because I see them as a playoff team this year. I see KP progressing more and they have a TON of cap space next year. I think perception is reality and when FA's see the knicks in the playoffs and moving in the right direction, players will view NY as a quality destination.

In comment 13008936 Keith said:

Quote:

1. So you tried to prove that Miami is a great FA destination by mentioning a guy that wasn't a FA, yet you are still going to parrot the statement? My point is that the big 3 was an aberration. They conspired to play together and that was the only place it could happen. Other than that, they certainly have not proven to be a great destination for FA's. 2. Why not wait to see how this unfolds. What happens when the Knicks DO get a meeting?

Again they definitely have though. I named other players, but even besides them, the very fact that Lebron decided thats where he wanted to play proves that Miami is a better destination. If the Knicks signed Lebron, Knicks fans would say "look this proves the Garden IS the Mecca of basketball!". Ignoring the fact that Lebron and Bosh signed there just to prove your point does no such thing.

Even if the Knicks get a meeting it means nothing, because they have no shot at signing KD. Why will our cap space be so much more appealing next year? Our best hope was a KP explosion, but we just decided to make him our 3rd option by trading for a ball dominant point guard. Lets say we sign Whiteside and then resign Rose next year- all of a sudden that cap space is gone. Thats a competing team?

Curry definitely plays off the ball a ton, as evidenced by the fact he didn't even lead his team in assists.

Don't recall ever thinking that.

i think is bs

whether Durant considers us a legitimate option or not, I still believe he will take an meeting to see what phil and hornacek envision with KD MELO Rose KP


however I don't think he will sign with us, I believe he ultimately re-signs with OKC

in the event of him re-signing with okc or another team what would be the best tandem to try and bring in as far as sg/c and who is realistic

what pairing would you guys take as far as listed centers and sgs

C- Horford Dwight Noah Whiteside
Sg-Batum Bazemore Eric Gordon, Lee

personally I would hope we can land a combo of
Whiteside/Bazemore

without the crazy and without the durability.

J. Michael ✔ @JMichaelCSN
The Wizards are NOT going to offer, nor have plans to, Joakim Noah a max deal, I can confirm. #WizardsTalk @CSNWizards

In comment 13008891 Sgrcts said:

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In comment 13008871 LawrenceTaylor56 said: Quote: Just like the proposed Noah deal out there yesterday. Don't believe everything you read. Knicks are getting a meeting. Thanks for the insider info! Knicks 2016 championship! BTW, these types of statements and blind hope are why our fans are the laughingstock of many NBA circles.

Blind hope? By saying he will give the Knicks a meeting? It's not really blind hope. Just kind of realistic. Do you even follow the NBA?

Tyson Chandler wasn't a superstar, but he signed to play with Melo and Amare.

Last offseason, coming off a 17 win season, Knicks got meetings with Monroe, Jordan, and had one with Aldridge (before both sides agreed to cancel it because the Knicks wanted him to play the 5, which he didn't want to do).

Sure, the Knicks have been a laughing stock for 16 years, but they haven't really had any great pieces either. They signed Amare, and then acquired Melo via trade. STAT then proceeded to break down.

They still have Melo, who is well-regarded around the league, considering just last year Dudley called him "overrated." Players also have a different perception of players than fans - Crawford also made some comments right after the Rose trade.

Is Durant to the Knicks likely? Definitely not. But their perception around the league has definitely changed, with Melo, KP and now Rose.

Mannix says Durant was briefed on the Ibaka deal and was said to be excited about Oladipo so those thinking it means he's a goner based on the deal seem incorrect

I don't even follow him on Twitter and yet I still get that information. Fuck.

and Mavs expected to offer Whiteside max as soon as FA opens

In comment 13008993 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

and Mavs expected to offer Whiteside max as soon as FA opens

It's your fault! You quoted Tommy Dee in your tweet so I had to see what he said! #Bastid.

claims we want to meet with Parsons, he of the oft injured, not that great, bad defender, looking for max money.

And it wouldn't be credible.

In comment 13008968 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

J. Michael ✔ @JMichaelCSN The Wizards are NOT going to offer, nor have plans to, Joakim Noah a max deal, I can confirm. #WizardsTalk @CSNWizards

I swear how do these rumors just start to get rolling. Twitter has been mostly bad for sports writers IMO. Many of them no longer even try to verify with reliable sources.

By and large, most good NBA writers graded this deal poorly for the Knicks. Have we seen any big NBA players comment on the Rose deal that I've missed? Knicks fans seem to love it, but I have trouble seeing how it changes our perceptions really. Winning is the only thing that does that.

probably makes the Knicks the favorites for Noah. Whether that is a good thing or not is another question.

Noah is easily the best fit for defense.

In comment 13009008 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

Noah is easily the best fit for defense.

Sure if he's a short term/reasonable deal. Otherwise who really cares? If he wants say 4 years and he makes the Knicks better for 2, then what was accomplished? If he's a bandaid I'm in. if he's a major longer term (3+ year move) I hate it.

But as an estimate, if we go out and spend all of our money this year and sign Rose next year, what cap space are we looking at next year? Lets say we get Noah and Batum if possible this year.

In comment 13009011 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

But as an estimate, if we go out and spend all of our money this year and sign Rose next year, what cap space are we looking at next year? Lets say we get Noah and Batum if possible this year.

Assuming you are only resigning Rose because he was so good you neede to then the Knicks will not have money for Noah, Batum (max), Rose and Melo.

Probably somewhere around 15 million

Doing the math wrong. It would be very very little. Depends on what Noah gets though.

At best he plays well and you roll the dice to pay him 25 mil, while having traded two affordable assets to do so. We could have just waited to FA to sign him at that point, since we still have to replace the assets we traded. I have trouble seeing who we sign to replace Lopez that will be cheaper this year or next with the crazy cap increase. I feel like the Rose deal increases the chances of us going"all in" on mediocre or older players which will keep us exactly where we've been forever.

In comment 13009020 Sgrcts said:

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At best he plays well and you roll the dice to pay him 25 mil, while having traded two affordable assets to do so. We could have just waited to FA to sign him at that point, since we still have to replace the assets we traded. I have trouble seeing who we sign to replace Lopez that will be cheaper this year or next with the crazy cap increase. I feel like the Rose deal increases the chances of us going"all in" on mediocre or older players which will keep us exactly where we've been forever.

Final sentence 100% my concern. I despise this move if the idea is we can add Joakim Noah types and contend now that Rose is here.

have Noah than Lopez for the next 3 years assuming the money is close to even.

In comment 13009020 Sgrcts said:

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At best he plays well and you roll the dice to pay him 25 mil, while having traded two affordable assets to do so. We could have just waited to FA to sign him at that point, since we still have to replace the assets we traded. I have trouble seeing who we sign to replace Lopez that will be cheaper this year or next with the crazy cap increase. I feel like the Rose deal increases the chances of us going"all in" on mediocre or older players which will keep us exactly where we've been forever.

Whether it was now or next year, at some point Lopez had to go. The long term position for Porzingis is at center. I forget who said it (probably Zach Lowe or Bill Simmons because that's who I listened to most recently), but Kristaps Porzingis was dropped from the heavens into our laps to be a stretch 5. This allows them to have a guy that can stretch the floor on the offensive end and still have an elite, 7'3" rim protector on the other end. So yes we could use depth at center so that Porzingis doesn't have to play down there 30+ minutes a night right now, but it's also not necessary to spend big money on a guy long term to play the 5.

As for the last sentence, why would taking a gamble on a guy on an expiring contract increase the chances of them going all in on older guys? Everything Jackson has done since he has been here has been in an effort to clear out the long term deals and go through a patient process. Unloading Calderon and Lopez goes right along with that. No long term commitment to a guy that was blocking KP, and no need to stretch Calderon and have dead money for 3 years.

Phil Jackson will shoot for the stars (Kevin Durant) during free agency but ultimately the Knicks will focus on more realistic targets like Joakim Noah.

Finally, Jackson will turn his attention to building a supporting cast and one former Knick emerging as a viable option is Jamal Crawford, the NBA's only three-time Sixth Man of Year.

Crawford, 36, has strong support within the Knicks organization and that feeling appears to be mutual.

"I'm not talking about any one team but everyone knows how I feel about New York," Crawford told The News. "I really enjoyed my time there."

makes a lot of sense as a backup PG. He's someone who can start in a pinch and should come pretty cheap.

A Noah, Crawford, Courtney Lee offseason would be a solid haul. Keep flexibility in 2017 and be competitive this year.

And a 3/4 year signing for Noah at 17-20 mil is disastrous.

In comment 13009001 Sgrcts said:

Quote:

By and large, most good NBA writers graded this deal poorly for the Knicks. Have we seen any big NBA players comment on the Rose deal that I've missed? Knicks fans seem to love it, but I have trouble seeing how it changes our perceptions really. Winning is the only thing that does that.

To be honest I don't see that many Knicks fans loving the trade. I would even say it is a very vocal minority praising the trade. Sport talk hosts who hated the idea a week ago are now saying oh yeah it will work out and how Phil has done a great job.

I take all of it with a grain of salt. Because just last year many of those same people dismissing Grant were calling him a draft steal for Phil last year at this time. Many of those called trading Chandler and Felton two years ago and getting Larkin and 2nd round pick to get another 'draft steal' Early. Now all those guys are gone or just considered afterthoughts in less than two years.

In comment 13009058 Sgrcts said:

Quote:

And a 3/4 year signing for Noah at 17-20 mil is disastrous.

Crawford is a quintessential combo guard off the bench. He can back up the 1 or 2 pretty well. Wouldn't want him starting at the 2 though.

And I would sign up for Noah at 3-40 right now. Even 3-45.

And I would even be ok with whiteside, but assuming we have no chance. I think the following would be great way to fill out the roster with Thomas and Galloway. Noah or Gasol down low, Crawford or barbosa off bench and a guy like Courtney Lee to play SG. Maybe dj august in or chalmers as back up pg. assuming everyone stays healthy could be top 4 team in the east with full cap flexibility in 2017. All of these guys can prob be had on one year deals besides Noah unless Noah wants to sign one year deal to play well and get big contract next year.

In comment 13009020 Sgrcts said:

Quote:

At best he plays well and you roll the dice to pay him 25 mil, while having traded two affordable assets to do so. We could have just waited to FA to sign him at that point, since we still have to replace the assets we traded. I have trouble seeing who we sign to replace Lopez that will be cheaper this year or next with the crazy cap increase. I feel like the Rose deal increases the chances of us going"all in" on mediocre or older players which will keep us exactly where we've been forever.

I don't think Phil has any intention of signing him longterm for exactly the reason you mention. Rose would have to be the old Derrick Rose for that to happen.

Noah, 3-45. Lee 1-10, Crawford 1-10, Galloway - 3-9, Thomas - 3-9, Willy - 4-4

Noah/Willy
KP/KOQ
Melo/Thomas
Lee/Galloway
Rose/Crawford

That's probably a top 4 seed in the east with a ton of cap flexibility in 2017.

in the league is? That's right.

LANCE THOMAS

CHAMPIONSHIP
Kevin Durant wants to play with LT - ( New Window )

In comment 13009120 Jon in NYC said:

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Noah, 3-45. Lee 1-10, Crawford 1-10, Galloway - 3-9, Thomas - 3-9, Willy - 4-4 Noah/Willy KP/KOQ Melo/Thomas Lee/Galloway Rose/Crawford That's probably a top 4 seed in the east with a ton of cap flexibility in 2017.

Listening to Hahn it sounds like the Knicks aren't interested in bringing back Galloaway at all. It wasn't just Grant that disappointed Phil last season.

hope that isn't true. I like Galloway's game a lot.

In comment 13009127 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

Quote:

in the league is? That's right. LANCE THOMAS CHAMPIONSHIP Kevin Durant wants to play with LT - ( New Window )

I remember him talking up Thomas. When Fisher was the HC, Durant seem to have been a big time fan of the Knicks. OKC was said to be worried that the Knicks were a serious threat to land him when Fisher was HC.

What is his status with the team? Do they still see him with potential? I think he could play in the league but he has had a lot of setbacks. I'm not sure why Rambis doesn't seem to like him. He's a young player so he makes mistakes and couldn't grasp the triangle system. Most young players would fall into that category.

This time at terminal 23...

Sam Amick said Lakers and wizards will not get a meeting..

He also said with rose trade the knicks have jumped on Durant radar but no meeting scheduled yet

he wanted Gallo back, on June 23 (per Twitter). Phil appears to have singled out Lance and Gallo, so it's not like he said everyone.

Assuming he isnt offer sheeted, you 100% bring back Gallo. Is he, at this point, a potent 6th man? No. He's at least a 4th guard in a rotation, and with Rose's injury history, we really need 5 guards who can play. He's a plus defender who can shoot the 3. And he has room to improve. I wouldnt pay him 8 million a year, but my gut tells me no one is going after him.

.

Locked up before meeting with KD. KP, Melo, Rose, Noah, Lance Thomas & Hernangomez isn't great. It's much better then what we had last season IMO. Add KD into that & we probably 3peat lol a man can dream!

In comment 13009178 Big Rick in FL said:

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Locked up before meeting with KD. KP, Melo, Rose, Noah, Lance Thomas & Hernangomez isn't great. It's much better then what we had last season IMO. Add KD into that & we probably 3peat lol a man can dream!

That team is still not better then the Thunder.

In comment 13009179 Sgrcts said:

Quote:

In comment 13009178 Big Rick in FL said: Quote: Locked up before meeting with KD. KP, Melo, Rose, Noah, Lance Thomas & Hernangomez isn't great. It's much better then what we had last season IMO. Add KD into that & we probably 3peat lol a man can dream! That team is still not better then the Thunder.

Assuming Westbrook stays next offseason. If Westbrook leaves that would suck for KD. Lol. I am not comparing the Knicks roster to the Thunder's. Obviously as of today the Thunder's roster is better.

and Oladipo are UFAs next year. That's an awfully risky situation to commit to long term.

And playing with friends, is turning down 2 of his closer friends in the nba going to be easy?

He works out with rose when he is in LA and works out with Melo in new york...

As for Noah I have a feeling he agrees on the first day of free agency, maybe a couple hours after midnight...

Friday?

In comment 13009182 Jon in NYC said:

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and Oladipo are UFAs next year. That's an awfully risky situation to commit to long term.

Oladipo is restricted, I'm almost certain

In comment 13009191 Jon in NYC said:

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Friday?

Yes starts midnight of Thursday night

and in any event, almost everyone takes the first extension. Monroe didnt, but basically everyone else has. It's the 2nd extension where people test free agency.

meant VO is a RFA next offseason. He has 3 years experience now. You hit UFA after your 5th season.

Oladipo and KP are probably close to a wash in terms of value.

Then you have Westbrook and Adams vs Melo and Rose in terms of other players of value.

Then factor in coaching staff, GM, and ability to attract future free agents?

I may be biased, but I think the Knicks have the edge there.

KP was better as a physically undeveloped rookie than VO has been in any season of his career. Judging by eyetest, PER, WS48.

Durant recognized that KP is a unicorn. In terms of value, the Thunder would get laughed at if they tried to trade VO for KP. I honestly dont think you'd trade KP for Westbrook because of cost control and age (Westbrook is obviously better). KP is a guy people are going to affirmatively want to play with. Oladipo is a "and we also have Oladipo" guy. Outstanding defender. Couldnt play with a PG in Elf, and it's not at all clear whether he's a guy who has to dominate the ball to be all that he can be (which is a problem because he isnt in the class of great on-ball guards). He's a Robin who is uncomfortable in that role. He's also wildly inconsistent.

KP's path to stardom is clear. Whereas I wouldnt bet on Oladipo ever being the #2 man on a finals team. More likely the #4 man.

Melo, Rose and KP is better than the Westbrook, Adams and Kanter/Oladipo.

If Durant is making a decision based ON THE MAIN PIECES on OKC and NY that's what he's evaluating (not the complete supporting cast) which is near completion for NY.

So the Knicks ability to sign FAs with the available cap is a big plus. Noah being reportedly interested in coming to NY is a plus. Crawford being reportedly interested is another big plus. PLAYING AGAINST TEAMS IN THE EAST is the another big plus.

To me, we've become an attractive destination for KD.

I agree. I've seen a lot of people say KP has potential to be a top 3-5 player in the league. Idk if Oladipo is ever going to be top 10 at his position. He's in his 3rd year & got benched last year. He couldn't deal with Payton. How's he going to work with a ball dominant PG like Westbrook?

In comment 13009252 Four Aces said:

Quote:

Melo, Rose and KP is better than the Westbrook, Adams and Kanter/Oladipo. If Durant is making a decision based ON THE MAIN PIECES on OKC and NY that's what he's evaluating (not the complete supporting cast) which is near completion for NY. So the Knicks ability to sign FAs with the available cap is a big plus. Noah being reportedly interested in coming to NY is a plus. Crawford being reportedly interested is another big plus. PLAYING AGAINST TEAMS IN THE EAST is the another big plus. To me, we've become an attractive destination for KD.

It isn't better, either in fit or in production. KP might end up being great, but he's still a young player more promise then production. Westbrook is far and away the best player of any you named. Adams is a stud defensive C who just erupted in the playoffs. It's hard to make a case that Rose is a better player then Olapido at this stage in his career, almost impossible really. Then you take into account that there still is Kanter, Payne, Robertson- the Thunder are infinitely deeper. As far as Crawford- he's still a serviceable player but on no planet is KD gonna pick a team where Jamal Crawford is playing.

However, after reading through a lot of Internet activity today, it sounds as if NY has Noah at value of KD signs. Knicks are going to try to sell this "Fab Five" to KD during their meeting.

As if this melo is 2010 melo.... And this rose is MVP rose- neither of these guys play 82 games anymore- and neither is the player they were- Westbrook is better then melo and rose combined - and it's not even close

In comment 13009239 Deej said:

Quote:

KP was better as a physically undeveloped rookie than VO has been in any season of his career. Judging by eyetest, PER, WS48. Durant recognized that KP is a unicorn. In terms of value, the Thunder would get laughed at if they tried to trade VO for KP. I honestly dont think you'd trade KP for Westbrook because of cost control and age (Westbrook is obviously better). KP is a guy people are going to affirmatively want to play with. Oladipo is a "and we also have Oladipo" guy. Outstanding defender. Couldnt play with a PG in Elf, and it's not at all clear whether he's a guy who has to dominate the ball to be all that he can be (which is a problem because he isnt in the class of great on-ball guards). He's a Robin who is uncomfortable in that role. He's also wildly inconsistent. KP's path to stardom is clear. Whereas I wouldnt bet on Oladipo ever being the #2 man on a finals team. More likely the #4 man.

Whatever. I was trying to be pessimistic. That even makes my point further. Returning to OKC just does not make sense from a bball perspective when looking at all options.

In comment 13009256 Sgrcts said:

Quote:

In comment 13009252 Four Aces said: Quote: Melo, Rose and KP is better than the Westbrook, Adams and Kanter/Oladipo. If Durant is making a decision based ON THE MAIN PIECES on OKC and NY that's what he's evaluating (not the complete supporting cast) which is near completion for NY. So the Knicks ability to sign FAs with the available cap is a big plus. Noah being reportedly interested in coming to NY is a plus. Crawford being reportedly interested is another big plus. PLAYING AGAINST TEAMS IN THE EAST is the another big plus. To me, we've become an attractive destination for KD. It isn't better, either in fit or in production. KP might end up being great, but he's still a young player more promise then production. Westbrook is far and away the best player of any you named. Adams is a stud defensive C who just erupted in the playoffs. It's hard to make a case that Rose is a better player then Olapido at this stage in his career, almost impossible really. Then you take into account that there still is Kanter, Payne, Robertson- the Thunder are infinitely deeper. As far as Crawford- he's still a serviceable player but on no planet is KD gonna pick a team where Jamal Crawford is playing.

Roberson, Waiters, Payne (who barely played and was more a cheerleader), etc doesn't make them indinitely deeper. The Knicks are waiting for other pieces to fall. But Galloway, Thomas and others will be brought back.

Westbrook is the only clearly better player. Melo and KP are much, much better than Kanter/Oladipo and Adams. It's not even close.

The problem you're basing it on your own bias.

Bron is 32 years old. Is he done?!

Is better. What are his plans after this season? Is KD looking for a 1/1 deal or something long term. That can definitely effect his decision. NY is in good shape moving forward, as far as draft picks and salary cap go. No one is saying that Melo isn't 30 plus and Rose has two healthy knees. They are still good ball players. KD would be the vocal point of the Knicks if he chooses. He also has a lot of respect for the young unicorn wearing #6.

for half the year. He'll be better and Melo will be better a year removed from his knee surgery. I'm not painting rosy pictures. But all this talk of players at 27 and 32 years old all of a sudden losing their abilities to play ball is absurd. Sometimes it takes a couple of years to get back to form. This is more directed to Melo. We see this in football all the time. All athletes go thru this.

In comment 13009222 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

Oladipo and KP are probably close to a wash in terms of value. Then you have Westbrook and Adams vs Melo and Rose in terms of other players of value. Then factor in coaching staff, GM, and ability to attract future free agents? I may be biased, but I think the Knicks have the edge there.

KP gets the edge over Oladipo.

Westbrook vs Melo isn't very close. Rose is better than Adams by a decent amount, but the question is if he can return to past form. Or stay on the court. Because if not, then that's much closer, if not a win for OKC.

Coaching staff is an unknown, but I would tilt it towards OKC given Donovan's first year. GM has to go to OKC - Presti is a fucking magician.

Ability to attract free agents seems to be more of a function of the roster for top players. They're getting the max anyway, and the market has less effect for them.

OKC can offer more money.

Saying the Knicks' situation is better than OKC's is extremely biased. Probably the biggest advantage the Knicks have is being in the East.

But this last year was one of his best in quite awhile. A few years ago, he sat out 20 or games and looked done and is much older than either Melo and Rose.

In comment 13009282 Aspano! said:

Quote:

In comment 13009222 Jon in NYC said: Quote: Oladipo and KP are probably close to a wash in terms of value. Then you have Westbrook and Adams vs Melo and Rose in terms of other players of value. Then factor in coaching staff, GM, and ability to attract future free agents? I may be biased, but I think the Knicks have the edge there. KP gets the edge over Oladipo. Westbrook vs Melo isn't very close. Rose is better than Adams by a decent amount, but the question is if he can return to past form. Or stay on the court. Because if not, then that's much closer, if not a win for OKC. Coaching staff is an unknown, but I would tilt it towards OKC given Donovan's first year. GM has to go to OKC - Presti is a fucking magician. Ability to attract free agents seems to be more of a function of the roster for top players. They're getting the max anyway, and the market has less effect for them. OKC can offer more money. Saying the Knicks' situation is better than OKC's is extremely biased. Probably the biggest advantage the Knicks have is being in the East.

Rose played 66 games last year despite entering the year coming off two major injuries. For comparison's sake, KP played 72 games last year, and no one even thinks of him being injured at all last year. The further away he gets the stronger he'll be. That's the optimistic take at least.

I think giving Donovan the coaching nod is generous. Thunder fans weren't particularly thrilled with him early in the year. I'm also admittedly very bullish on Horny.

The other factor which you didn't address, is that in 2017, even with Durant, we'll have room for another Max. So will the thunder of course, but OKC has had trouble attracting people there in the past. That's unlikely to change.

Don't forget, we're only 3 years away from Presti trading Harden for cents on the dollar because they didn't want to pay him.

In comment 13009294 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

In comment 13009282 Aspano! said: Quote: In comment 13009222 Jon in NYC said: Quote: Oladipo and KP are probably close to a wash in terms of value. Then you have Westbrook and Adams vs Melo and Rose in terms of other players of value. Then factor in coaching staff, GM, and ability to attract future free agents? I may be biased, but I think the Knicks have the edge there. KP gets the edge over Oladipo. Westbrook vs Melo isn't very close. Rose is better than Adams by a decent amount, but the question is if he can return to past form. Or stay on the court. Because if not, then that's much closer, if not a win for OKC. Coaching staff is an unknown, but I would tilt it towards OKC given Donovan's first year. GM has to go to OKC - Presti is a fucking magician. Ability to attract free agents seems to be more of a function of the roster for top players. They're getting the max anyway, and the market has less effect for them. OKC can offer more money. Saying the Knicks' situation is better than OKC's is extremely biased. Probably the biggest advantage the Knicks have is being in the East. Rose played 66 games last year despite entering the year coming off two major injuries. For comparison's sake, KP played 72 games last year, and no one even thinks of him being injured at all last year. The further away he gets the stronger he'll be. That's the optimistic take at least. I think giving Donovan the coaching nod is generous. Thunder fans weren't particularly thrilled with him early in the year. I'm also admittedly very bullish on Horny. The other factor which you didn't address, is that in 2017, even with Durant, we'll have room for another Max. So will the thunder of course, but OKC has had trouble attracting people there in the past. That's unlikely to change. Don't forget, we're only 3 years away from Presti trading Harden for cents on the dollar because they didn't want to pay him.

Not sure how true that is, or how secure. What if Rose is falling apart? Then the max comes out of not renewing him.

And even if he does stay healthy, what's his cap hold next year? I'm not well-versed enough on the cap to know what effect that has.

In comment 13009298 Aspano! said:

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In comment 13009294 Jon in NYC said: Quote: In comment 13009282 Aspano! said: Quote: In comment 13009222 Jon in NYC said: Quote: Oladipo and KP are probably close to a wash in terms of value. Then you have Westbrook and Adams vs Melo and Rose in terms of other players of value. Then factor in coaching staff, GM, and ability to attract future free agents? I may be biased, but I think the Knicks have the edge there. KP gets the edge over Oladipo. Westbrook vs Melo isn't very close. Rose is better than Adams by a decent amount, but the question is if he can return to past form. Or stay on the court. Because if not, then that's much closer, if not a win for OKC. Coaching staff is an unknown, but I would tilt it towards OKC given Donovan's first year. GM has to go to OKC - Presti is a fucking magician. Ability to attract free agents seems to be more of a function of the roster for top players. They're getting the max anyway, and the market has less effect for them. OKC can offer more money. Saying the Knicks' situation is better than OKC's is extremely biased. Probably the biggest advantage the Knicks have is being in the East. Rose played 66 games last year despite entering the year coming off two major injuries. For comparison's sake, KP played 72 games last year, and no one even thinks of him being injured at all last year. The further away he gets the stronger he'll be. That's the optimistic take at least. I think giving Donovan the coaching nod is generous. Thunder fans weren't particularly thrilled with him early in the year. I'm also admittedly very bullish on Horny. The other factor which you didn't address, is that in 2017, even with Durant, we'll have room for another Max. So will the thunder of course, but OKC has had trouble attracting people there in the past. That's unlikely to change. Don't forget, we're only 3 years away from Presti trading Harden for cents on the dollar because they didn't want to pay him. Not sure how true that is, or how secure. What if Rose is falling apart? Then the max comes out of not renewing him. And even if he does stay healthy, what's his cap hold next year? I'm not well-versed enough on the cap to know what effect that has.

It will be close. The cap is jumping another 13M after this season, so if they just add Durant this year, they would have enough. If they added Noah and Durant, they would probably have to get a little creative with Rose's deal if they chose to re-sign him.

But Harden REALLY broke out when he joined the Rockets. He wasn't nearly as dynamic on OKC because of both Durant and Westbrook. He wasn't even starting at the 2 - Thabo Sefolosha was.

have room for another max next year if they sign Durant. Durant's max I believe is around 28M, Rose's cap hold is 21.3M, plus 30.3 from other salaries, plus 4.5M for KP's team option. That's 84.1M. That doesn't include salaries for Galloway or Thomas if they come back (assume 3M each, which would add another 6M). Another max doesn't fit.

by myself, but James Harden was an addition by subtraction. His role in OKC would be 3rd option and he wouldnt even be on the floor at the end of games for how pathetic he is defensively.

In comment 13009328 Aspano! said:

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have room for another max next year if they sign Durant. Durant's max I believe is around 28M, Rose's cap hold is 21.3M, plus 30.3 from other salaries, plus 4.5M for KP's team option. That's 84.1M. That doesn't include salaries for Galloway or Thomas if they come back (assume 3M each, which would add another 6M). Another max doesn't fit.

Well they certainly could get close if they worked at it.

Either way, a Rose-Durant-Melo-KP-Noah

roster probably doesn't need a ton of work. Assuming health is good, that's a monster team.

In comment 13009343 Jon in NYC said:

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In comment 13009328 Aspano! said: Quote: have room for another max next year if they sign Durant. Durant's max I believe is around 28M, Rose's cap hold is 21.3M, plus 30.3 from other salaries, plus 4.5M for KP's team option. That's 84.1M. That doesn't include salaries for Galloway or Thomas if they come back (assume 3M each, which would add another 6M). Another max doesn't fit. Well they certainly could get close if they worked at it. Either way, a Rose-Durant-Melo-KP-Noah roster probably doesn't need a ton of work. Assuming health is good, that's a monster team.

Not really. The only option would be to stretch KOQ or trade him, and even then it's only 4M.

In comment 13009349 Aspano! said:

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In comment 13009343 Jon in NYC said: Quote: In comment 13009328 Aspano! said: Quote: have room for another max next year if they sign Durant. Durant's max I believe is around 28M, Rose's cap hold is 21.3M, plus 30.3 from other salaries, plus 4.5M for KP's team option. That's 84.1M. That doesn't include salaries for Galloway or Thomas if they come back (assume 3M each, which would add another 6M). Another max doesn't fit. Well they certainly could get close if they worked at it. Either way, a Rose-Durant-Melo-KP-Noah roster probably doesn't need a ton of work. Assuming health is good, that's a monster team. Not really. The only option would be to stretch KOQ or trade him, and even then it's only 4M.

Plus the 13 they would come in with. 17M. Then if you re-sign Rose to a deal with escalators that's another way to clear up space.

to stay with the Knicks, versus another team who, after a good year, would just sign him for guaranteed money? What allegiance does he have after one year with the Knicks to do such a thing?

And that's not even mentioning that escalators don't really exist in the NBA.

In comment 13009328 Aspano! said:

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have room for another max next year if they sign Durant. Durant's max I believe is around 28M, Rose's cap hold is 21.3M, plus 30.3 from other salaries, plus 4.5M for KP's team option. That's 84.1M. That doesn't include salaries for Galloway or Thomas if they come back (assume 3M each, which would add another 6M). Another max doesn't fit.

Right now the only contracts the Knicks have on the books for next year are Carmelo, Porzingis, and O'Quinn. Those 3 total up to $34.8 million. The cap hold for Rose is $22.4 million. Add all of that with ~$28 mil for Durant and they are at $85.2 million in committed salaries towards an estimated cap of $107m.

If they can move O'Quinn, which you wouldn't think should be too hard, and they would have about $26m to work with. This is all going by data on sportrac, so assuming that is correct.

and max contracts go by 25%, 30% and 35% depending on years of service. And generally speaking, 25% max contract guys are usually RFAs, which is the case for next year (Oladipo being one of them).

And again, that's assuming Galloway and Thomas are both off the roster. It's not gonna work.

In comment 13009255 Big Rick in FL said:

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I agree. I've seen a lot of people say KP has potential to be a top 3-5 player in the league. Idk if Oladipo is ever going to be top 10 at his position. He's in his 3rd year & got benched last year. He couldn't deal with Payton. How's he going to work with a ball dominant PG like Westbrook?

He's probably already a top 10 SG. He didn't get any spacing in Orlando. Just watch, he will become an above average 3 point shooter, elite defender, and playmaker.

In comment 13009373 Aspano! said:

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to stay with the Knicks, versus another team who, after a good year, would just sign him for guaranteed money? What allegiance does he have after one year with the Knicks to do such a thing? And that's not even mentioning that escalators don't really exist in the NBA.

Escalators 100% do exist in the NBA. In fact, every single player on the Knicks has one.
Link - ( New Window )

Basically every contract in the NBA increases per year. However there are limits to how much you can give a player in a raise each season- 4.5%, and that raise is always based off the first seasons salary(i.e. It's a 450 raise each season).

If it doesn't work, then you let Rose go, trade Melo and tank for another two years.

In the meantime, Knick fans at least get to enjoy a competitive season with Rose, Melo, KP, and whatever big man Phil signs. Hopefully Gasol not the incredibly overrated Noah.

Said Melo had dinner with kd last night, maybe kd is just taking a bunch if little meetings with the knicks in the former of melo...

In comment 13009456 nygiants16 said:

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Said Melo had dinner with kd last night, maybe kd is just taking a bunch if little meetings with the knicks in the former of melo...

Or maybe he's just being nice to Melo so it doesn't seem he doesn't want to sniff his friend's team.