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NFT: NY Knicks-Not on Durants list of initial teams to meet...

Keith : 6/25/2016 9:46 am
Kevin Durant’s representatives "are working to solidify invitations" with the Celtics, Warriors, Clippers, Heat, Spurs and Thunder, according to Adrian Wojnarowski of The Vertical.

According to the report, the meetings are expected to take place in New York, but teams are still awaiting on the specific location. Wojnarowski adds the Thunder are still the frontrunners for a one-plus-one-year deal to allow Durant to hit free agency for the big salary cap rise in 2017. Wojnarowski also said the Warriors "have Durant's attention." Lastly, the report adds Durant is expected to take a tour to the Far East on July 9 and should have a decision before then. OK, everybody got that?



So he's in NY, he's supposedly close with Rose and Melo and yet we aren't on his list of initial teams to meet. That's not a good sign.


Durant to meet with the Celtics, Warriors, Clippers, Heat, Spurs and Thunder - ( New Window )
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Rose  
DanMetroMan : 6/25/2016 2:31 pm : link
probably makes the Knicks the favorites for Noah. Whether that is a good thing or not is another question.
Unless you're willing to go long term for Horford  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/25/2016 2:32 pm : link
Noah is easily the best fit for defense.
RE: Unless you're willing to go long term for Horford  
DanMetroMan : 6/25/2016 2:34 pm : link
In comment 13009008 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Noah is easily the best fit for defense.


Sure if he's a short term/reasonable deal. Otherwise who really cares? If he wants say 4 years and he makes the Knicks better for 2, then what was accomplished? If he's a bandaid I'm in. if he's a major longer term (3+ year move) I hate it.
I know this is gonna be really hard to answer  
robbieballs2003 : 6/25/2016 2:35 pm : link
But as an estimate, if we go out and spend all of our money this year and sign Rose next year, what cap space are we looking at next year? Lets say we get Noah and Batum if possible this year.
RE: I know this is gonna be really hard to answer  
DanMetroMan : 6/25/2016 2:37 pm : link
In comment 13009011 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
But as an estimate, if we go out and spend all of our money this year and sign Rose next year, what cap space are we looking at next year? Lets say we get Noah and Batum if possible this year.


Assuming you are only resigning Rose because he was so good you neede to then the Knicks will not have money for Noah, Batum (max), Rose and Melo.
Depends on what Noah gets  
Big Rick in FL : 6/25/2016 2:38 pm : link
Probably somewhere around 15 million
Nevermind  
Big Rick in FL : 6/25/2016 2:41 pm : link
Doing the math wrong. It would be very very little. Depends on what Noah gets though.
It's one of my beefs with the Rose deal  
Sgrcts : 6/25/2016 2:42 pm : link
At best he plays well and you roll the dice to pay him 25 mil, while having traded two affordable assets to do so. We could have just waited to FA to sign him at that point, since we still have to replace the assets we traded. I have trouble seeing who we sign to replace Lopez that will be cheaper this year or next with the crazy cap increase. I feel like the Rose deal increases the chances of us going"all in" on mediocre or older players which will keep us exactly where we've been forever.
RE: It's one of my beefs with the Rose deal  
DanMetroMan : 6/25/2016 2:44 pm : link
In comment 13009020 Sgrcts said:
Quote:
At best he plays well and you roll the dice to pay him 25 mil, while having traded two affordable assets to do so. We could have just waited to FA to sign him at that point, since we still have to replace the assets we traded. I have trouble seeing who we sign to replace Lopez that will be cheaper this year or next with the crazy cap increase. I feel like the Rose deal increases the chances of us going"all in" on mediocre or older players which will keep us exactly where we've been forever.


Final sentence 100% my concern. I despise this move if the idea is we can add Joakim Noah types and contend now that Rose is here.
I would rather  
Jon in NYC : 6/25/2016 2:53 pm : link
have Noah than Lopez for the next 3 years assuming the money is close to even.
RE: It's one of my beefs with the Rose deal  
Lopes1984 : 6/25/2016 3:12 pm : link
In comment 13009020 Sgrcts said:
Quote:
At best he plays well and you roll the dice to pay him 25 mil, while having traded two affordable assets to do so. We could have just waited to FA to sign him at that point, since we still have to replace the assets we traded. I have trouble seeing who we sign to replace Lopez that will be cheaper this year or next with the crazy cap increase. I feel like the Rose deal increases the chances of us going"all in" on mediocre or older players which will keep us exactly where we've been forever.


Whether it was now or next year, at some point Lopez had to go. The long term position for Porzingis is at center. I forget who said it (probably Zach Lowe or Bill Simmons because that's who I listened to most recently), but Kristaps Porzingis was dropped from the heavens into our laps to be a stretch 5. This allows them to have a guy that can stretch the floor on the offensive end and still have an elite, 7'3" rim protector on the other end. So yes we could use depth at center so that Porzingis doesn't have to play down there 30+ minutes a night right now, but it's also not necessary to spend big money on a guy long term to play the 5.

As for the last sentence, why would taking a gamble on a guy on an expiring contract increase the chances of them going all in on older guys? Everything Jackson has done since he has been here has been in an effort to clear out the long term deals and go through a patient process. Unloading Calderon and Lopez goes right along with that. No long term commitment to a guy that was blocking KP, and no need to stretch Calderon and have dead money for 3 years.
.  
DanMetroMan : 6/25/2016 3:18 pm : link
Phil Jackson will shoot for the stars (Kevin Durant) during free agency but ultimately the Knicks will focus on more realistic targets like Joakim Noah.

Finally, Jackson will turn his attention to building a supporting cast and one former Knick emerging as a viable option is Jamal Crawford, the NBA's only three-time Sixth Man of Year.

Crawford, 36, has strong support within the Knicks organization and that feeling appears to be mutual.

"I'm not talking about any one team but everyone knows how I feel about New York," Crawford told The News. "I really enjoyed my time there."

Crawford  
Jon in NYC : 6/25/2016 3:22 pm : link
makes a lot of sense as a backup PG. He's someone who can start in a pinch and should come pretty cheap.

A Noah, Crawford, Courtney Lee offseason would be a solid haul. Keep flexibility in 2017 and be competitive this year.
Crawford is a SG  
Sgrcts : 6/25/2016 3:27 pm : link
And a 3/4 year signing for Noah at 17-20 mil is disastrous.
RE: I guess I just don't see how we know our perception has changed  
Mason : 6/25/2016 4:13 pm : link
In comment 13009001 Sgrcts said:
Quote:
By and large, most good NBA writers graded this deal poorly for the Knicks. Have we seen any big NBA players comment on the Rose deal that I've missed? Knicks fans seem to love it, but I have trouble seeing how it changes our perceptions really. Winning is the only thing that does that.


To be honest I don't see that many Knicks fans loving the trade. I would even say it is a very vocal minority praising the trade. Sport talk hosts who hated the idea a week ago are now saying oh yeah it will work out and how Phil has done a great job.

I take all of it with a grain of salt. Because just last year many of those same people dismissing Grant were calling him a draft steal for Phil last year at this time. Many of those called trading Chandler and Felton two years ago and getting Larkin and 2nd round pick to get another 'draft steal' Early. Now all those guys are gone or just considered afterthoughts in less than two years.
RE: Crawford is a SG  
Jon in NYC : 6/25/2016 5:06 pm : link
In comment 13009058 Sgrcts said:
Quote:
And a 3/4 year signing for Noah at 17-20 mil is disastrous.


Crawford is a quintessential combo guard off the bench. He can back up the 1 or 2 pretty well. Wouldn't want him starting at the 2 though.

And I would sign up for Noah at 3-40 right now. Even 3-45.
Obviously you go hard for durant  
GMEN46 : 6/25/2016 5:22 pm : link
And I would even be ok with whiteside, but assuming we have no chance. I think the following would be great way to fill out the roster with Thomas and Galloway. Noah or Gasol down low, Crawford or barbosa off bench and a guy like Courtney Lee to play SG. Maybe dj august in or chalmers as back up pg. assuming everyone stays healthy could be top 4 team in the east with full cap flexibility in 2017. All of these guys can prob be had on one year deals besides Noah unless Noah wants to sign one year deal to play well and get big contract next year.
RE: It's one of my beefs with the Rose deal  
Vanzetti : 6/25/2016 5:35 pm : link
In comment 13009020 Sgrcts said:
Quote:
At best he plays well and you roll the dice to pay him 25 mil, while having traded two affordable assets to do so. We could have just waited to FA to sign him at that point, since we still have to replace the assets we traded. I have trouble seeing who we sign to replace Lopez that will be cheaper this year or next with the crazy cap increase. I feel like the Rose deal increases the chances of us going"all in" on mediocre or older players which will keep us exactly where we've been forever.


I don't think Phil has any intention of signing him longterm for exactly the reason you mention. Rose would have to be the old Derrick Rose for that to happen.

...  
Jon in NYC : 6/25/2016 5:49 pm : link
Noah, 3-45. Lee 1-10, Crawford 1-10, Galloway - 3-9, Thomas - 3-9, Willy - 4-4

Noah/Willy
KP/KOQ
Melo/Thomas
Lee/Galloway
Rose/Crawford

That's probably a top 4 seed in the east with a ton of cap flexibility in 2017.
Who did Kevin Durant say his favorite player and person  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 6/25/2016 5:57 pm : link
in the league is? That's right.

LANCE THOMAS

CHAMPIONSHIP
Kevin Durant wants to play with LT - ( New Window )
RE: ...  
Mason : 6/25/2016 6:07 pm : link
In comment 13009120 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
Noah, 3-45. Lee 1-10, Crawford 1-10, Galloway - 3-9, Thomas - 3-9, Willy - 4-4

Noah/Willy
KP/KOQ
Melo/Thomas
Lee/Galloway
Rose/Crawford

That's probably a top 4 seed in the east with a ton of cap flexibility in 2017.


Listening to Hahn it sounds like the Knicks aren't interested in bringing back Galloaway at all. It wasn't just Grant that disappointed Phil last season.
I really  
Jon in NYC : 6/25/2016 6:12 pm : link
hope that isn't true. I like Galloway's game a lot.
RE: Who did Kevin Durant say his favorite player and person  
Mason : 6/25/2016 6:14 pm : link
In comment 13009127 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
in the league is? That's right.

LANCE THOMAS

CHAMPIONSHIP Kevin Durant wants to play with LT - ( New Window )


I remember him talking up Thomas. When Fisher was the HC, Durant seem to have been a big time fan of the Knicks. OKC was said to be worried that the Knicks were a serious threat to land him when Fisher was HC.
I'm curious about Early  
Mason : 6/25/2016 6:21 pm : link
What is his status with the team? Do they still see him with potential? I think he could play in the league but he has had a lot of setbacks. I'm not sure why Rambis doesn't seem to like him. He's a young player so he makes mistakes and couldn't grasp the triangle system. Most young players would fall into that category.
Apparently kd was with Melo again today  
nygiants16 : 6/25/2016 6:45 pm : link
This time at terminal 23...

Sam Amick said Lakers and wizards will not get a meeting..

He also said with rose trade the knicks have jumped on Durant radar but no meeting scheduled yet
Isola and other reported that Phil said  
Deej : 6/25/2016 6:52 pm : link
he wanted Gallo back, on June 23 (per Twitter). Phil appears to have singled out Lance and Gallo, so it's not like he said everyone.

Assuming he isnt offer sheeted, you 100% bring back Gallo. Is he, at this point, a potent 6th man? No. He's at least a 4th guard in a rotation, and with Rose's injury history, we really need 5 guards who can play. He's a plus defender who can shoot the 3. And he has room to improve. I wouldnt pay him 8 million a year, but my gut tells me no one is going after him.
Melo's doing God's work.  
bceagle05 : 6/25/2016 7:48 pm : link
.
Hopefully they can get Joakim & Crawford  
Big Rick in FL : 6/25/2016 7:50 pm : link
Locked up before meeting with KD. KP, Melo, Rose, Noah, Lance Thomas & Hernangomez isn't great. It's much better then what we had last season IMO. Add KD into that & we probably 3peat lol a man can dream!
RE: Hopefully they can get Joakim & Crawford  
Sgrcts : 6/25/2016 7:50 pm : link
In comment 13009178 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Locked up before meeting with KD. KP, Melo, Rose, Noah, Lance Thomas & Hernangomez isn't great. It's much better then what we had last season IMO. Add KD into that & we probably 3peat lol a man can dream!


That team is still not better then the Thunder.
RE: RE: Hopefully they can get Joakim & Crawford  
robbieballs2003 : 6/25/2016 7:53 pm : link
In comment 13009179 Sgrcts said:
Quote:
In comment 13009178 Big Rick in FL said:


Quote:


Locked up before meeting with KD. KP, Melo, Rose, Noah, Lance Thomas & Hernangomez isn't great. It's much better then what we had last season IMO. Add KD into that & we probably 3peat lol a man can dream!



That team is still not better then the Thunder.


Assuming Westbrook stays next offseason. If Westbrook leaves that would suck for KD. Lol. I am not comparing the Knicks roster to the Thunder's. Obviously as of today the Thunder's roster is better.
Both Westbrook  
Jon in NYC : 6/25/2016 7:55 pm : link
and Oladipo are UFAs next year. That's an awfully risky situation to commit to long term.
Kd talks a lot about wanting to be happy on the court  
nygiants16 : 6/25/2016 8:05 pm : link
And playing with friends, is turning down 2 of his closer friends in the nba going to be easy?

He works out with rose when he is in LA and works out with Melo in new york...

As for Noah I have a feeling he agrees on the first day of free agency, maybe a couple hours after midnight...
Is the first day of FA  
Jon in NYC : 6/25/2016 8:10 pm : link
Friday?
RE: Both Westbrook  
giantsfan44ab : 6/25/2016 8:11 pm : link
In comment 13009182 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
and Oladipo are UFAs next year. That's an awfully risky situation to commit to long term.


Oladipo is restricted, I'm almost certain
RE: Is the first day of FA  
nygiants16 : 6/25/2016 8:12 pm : link
In comment 13009191 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
Friday?


Yes starts midnight of Thursday night
Oladipo is a RFA  
Deej : 6/25/2016 8:27 pm : link
and in any event, almost everyone takes the first extension. Monroe didnt, but basically everyone else has. It's the 2nd extension where people test free agency.
sorry  
Deej : 6/25/2016 8:28 pm : link
meant VO is a RFA next offseason. He has 3 years experience now. You hit UFA after your 5th season.
Still,  
Jon in NYC : 6/25/2016 8:36 pm : link
Oladipo and KP are probably close to a wash in terms of value.

Then you have Westbrook and Adams vs Melo and Rose in terms of other players of value.

Then factor in coaching staff, GM, and ability to attract future free agents?

I may be biased, but I think the Knicks have the edge there.
KPand VO arent remotely a wash  
Deej : 6/25/2016 8:55 pm : link
KP was better as a physically undeveloped rookie than VO has been in any season of his career. Judging by eyetest, PER, WS48.

Durant recognized that KP is a unicorn. In terms of value, the Thunder would get laughed at if they tried to trade VO for KP. I honestly dont think you'd trade KP for Westbrook because of cost control and age (Westbrook is obviously better). KP is a guy people are going to affirmatively want to play with. Oladipo is a "and we also have Oladipo" guy. Outstanding defender. Couldnt play with a PG in Elf, and it's not at all clear whether he's a guy who has to dominate the ball to be all that he can be (which is a problem because he isnt in the class of great on-ball guards). He's a Robin who is uncomfortable in that role. He's also wildly inconsistent.

KP's path to stardom is clear. Whereas I wouldnt bet on Oladipo ever being the #2 man on a finals team. More likely the #4 man.
This is the point I see no one making... The Knicks Big 3 of  
Four Aces : 6/25/2016 9:07 pm : link
Melo, Rose and KP is better than the Westbrook, Adams and Kanter/Oladipo.

If Durant is making a decision based ON THE MAIN PIECES on OKC and NY that's what he's evaluating (not the complete supporting cast) which is near completion for NY.

So the Knicks ability to sign FAs with the available cap is a big plus. Noah being reportedly interested in coming to NY is a plus. Crawford being reportedly interested is another big plus. PLAYING AGAINST TEAMS IN THE EAST is the another big plus.

To me, we've become an attractive destination for KD.
Deej  
Big Rick in FL : 6/25/2016 9:09 pm : link
I agree. I've seen a lot of people say KP has potential to be a top 3-5 player in the league. Idk if Oladipo is ever going to be top 10 at his position. He's in his 3rd year & got benched last year. He couldn't deal with Payton. How's he going to work with a ball dominant PG like Westbrook?
RE: This is the point I see no one making... The Knicks Big 3 of  
Sgrcts : 6/25/2016 9:12 pm : link
In comment 13009252 Four Aces said:
Quote:
Melo, Rose and KP is better than the Westbrook, Adams and Kanter/Oladipo.

If Durant is making a decision based ON THE MAIN PIECES on OKC and NY that's what he's evaluating (not the complete supporting cast) which is near completion for NY.

So the Knicks ability to sign FAs with the available cap is a big plus. Noah being reportedly interested in coming to NY is a plus. Crawford being reportedly interested is another big plus. PLAYING AGAINST TEAMS IN THE EAST is the another big plus.

To me, we've become an attractive destination for KD.


It isn't better, either in fit or in production. KP might end up being great, but he's still a young player more promise then production. Westbrook is far and away the best player of any you named. Adams is a stud defensive C who just erupted in the playoffs. It's hard to make a case that Rose is a better player then Olapido at this stage in his career, almost impossible really. Then you take into account that there still is Kanter, Payne, Robertson- the Thunder are infinitely deeper. As far as Crawford- he's still a serviceable player but on no planet is KD gonna pick a team where Jamal Crawford is playing.
I'm still not getting my KD hopes up  
Reeses Pieces : 6/25/2016 9:13 pm : link
However, after reading through a lot of Internet activity today, it sounds as if NY has Noah at value of KD signs. Knicks are going to try to sell this "Fab Five" to KD during their meeting.
It appears that people are speaking  
hitdog42 : 6/25/2016 9:13 pm : link
As if this melo is 2010 melo.... And this rose is MVP rose- neither of these guys play 82 games anymore- and neither is the player they were- Westbrook is better then melo and rose combined - and it's not even close
RE: KPand VO arent remotely a wash  
Jon in NYC : 6/25/2016 9:19 pm : link
In comment 13009239 Deej said:
Quote:
KP was better as a physically undeveloped rookie than VO has been in any season of his career. Judging by eyetest, PER, WS48.

Durant recognized that KP is a unicorn. In terms of value, the Thunder would get laughed at if they tried to trade VO for KP. I honestly dont think you'd trade KP for Westbrook because of cost control and age (Westbrook is obviously better). KP is a guy people are going to affirmatively want to play with. Oladipo is a "and we also have Oladipo" guy. Outstanding defender. Couldnt play with a PG in Elf, and it's not at all clear whether he's a guy who has to dominate the ball to be all that he can be (which is a problem because he isnt in the class of great on-ball guards). He's a Robin who is uncomfortable in that role. He's also wildly inconsistent.

KP's path to stardom is clear. Whereas I wouldnt bet on Oladipo ever being the #2 man on a finals team. More likely the #4 man.


Whatever. I was trying to be pessimistic. That even makes my point further. Returning to OKC just does not make sense from a bball perspective when looking at all options.
RE: RE: This is the point I see no one making... The Knicks Big 3 of  
Four Aces : 6/25/2016 9:19 pm : link
In comment 13009256 Sgrcts said:
Quote:
In comment 13009252 Four Aces said:


Quote:


Melo, Rose and KP is better than the Westbrook, Adams and Kanter/Oladipo.

If Durant is making a decision based ON THE MAIN PIECES on OKC and NY that's what he's evaluating (not the complete supporting cast) which is near completion for NY.

So the Knicks ability to sign FAs with the available cap is a big plus. Noah being reportedly interested in coming to NY is a plus. Crawford being reportedly interested is another big plus. PLAYING AGAINST TEAMS IN THE EAST is the another big plus.

To me, we've become an attractive destination for KD.



It isn't better, either in fit or in production. KP might end up being great, but he's still a young player more promise then production. Westbrook is far and away the best player of any you named. Adams is a stud defensive C who just erupted in the playoffs. It's hard to make a case that Rose is a better player then Olapido at this stage in his career, almost impossible really. Then you take into account that there still is Kanter, Payne, Robertson- the Thunder are infinitely deeper. As far as Crawford- he's still a serviceable player but on no planet is KD gonna pick a team where Jamal Crawford is playing.


Roberson, Waiters, Payne (who barely played and was more a cheerleader), etc doesn't make them indinitely deeper. The Knicks are waiting for other pieces to fall. But Galloway, Thomas and others will be brought back.

Westbrook is the only clearly better player. Melo and KP are much, much better than Kanter/Oladipo and Adams. It's not even close.

The problem you're basing it on your own bias.
Melo came off a knee surgery... he's far from done at 32 years old  
Four Aces : 6/25/2016 9:21 pm : link
Bron is 32 years old. Is he done?!
Westbrook  
Reeses Pieces : 6/25/2016 9:21 pm : link
Is better. What are his plans after this season? Is KD looking for a 1/1 deal or something long term. That can definitely effect his decision. NY is in good shape moving forward, as far as draft picks and salary cap go. No one is saying that Melo isn't 30 plus and Rose has two healthy knees. They are still good ball players. KD would be the vocal point of the Knicks if he chooses. He also has a lot of respect for the young unicorn wearing #6.
Rose is 27 years old and dealt with an fractured orbital that  
Four Aces : 6/25/2016 9:24 pm : link
for half the year. He'll be better and Melo will be better a year removed from his knee surgery. I'm not painting rosy pictures. But all this talk of players at 27 and 32 years old all of a sudden losing their abilities to play ball is absurd. Sometimes it takes a couple of years to get back to form. This is more directed to Melo. We see this in football all the time. All athletes go thru this.
RE: Still,  
Aspano! : 6/25/2016 9:25 pm : link
In comment 13009222 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
Oladipo and KP are probably close to a wash in terms of value.

Then you have Westbrook and Adams vs Melo and Rose in terms of other players of value.

Then factor in coaching staff, GM, and ability to attract future free agents?

I may be biased, but I think the Knicks have the edge there.


KP gets the edge over Oladipo.

Westbrook vs Melo isn't very close. Rose is better than Adams by a decent amount, but the question is if he can return to past form. Or stay on the court. Because if not, then that's much closer, if not a win for OKC.

Coaching staff is an unknown, but I would tilt it towards OKC given Donovan's first year. GM has to go to OKC - Presti is a fucking magician.

Ability to attract free agents seems to be more of a function of the roster for top players. They're getting the max anyway, and the market has less effect for them.

OKC can offer more money.

Saying the Knicks' situation is better than OKC's is extremely biased. Probably the biggest advantage the Knicks have is being in the East.
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