OBJ is eligible for an extension, right? I wonder if it makes sense to make him an offer as soon as the league year ends. It seems we should have the cap year.
I dread the thought of him becoming an unrestricted free agent. Don't want to spend $20MM/yr or more to sign him, nor do I want to lose him. I would much rather start paying him more in 2017.
Since I'm no cap expert I would be very interested in the take of those who track the cap and salaries more closely than I.
What if Hankins has a breakout year, due more to the talent to the left and right of him?
You basically have OBj for the next 4 years, with the option year, option....
While some see this excess cap and want to spend it on a RT, you have some guys who you have to sign for next season, and might need to roll over this cap next year....
Highly doubt they extend him after this season. The Giants will have all the leverage since they essentially control him for 3 more seasons beyond the 2016 season:
2017: final year of rookie deal
2018: 5th year team option (well below market value since he wasn't a top 10 pick)
2019: franchise tag, so still arguably below market value
Technically they could probably tag him again in 2020, but the cost would be prohibitive by then. The time to sign him to an extension is probably after the 2017 season.
Is that because the Giants restructured his contract? I would think with him retiring the team would not be liable for any money in the contract?
Yes, it's due to the restructuring and signing bonus. You don't get salary cap relief because those are dollar amounts already paid, they were just amortized at the time of the deal for cap purposes.
Dan - also keep in mind that Eli's final year is 2019, so they'll likely be replacing his large salary/cap space with Beckham's. If the sign Beckham to an extension after his 5 year player option (i.e after the 2018 season), they can structure it with a relatively low cap hit for the 2019 season (potentially his last with Eli) and then larger cap hits in the other years. So I don't envision cap space being a hindrance to a Beckham extension.
DLine - With two big deals already in place (Vernon/Snacks), I don't see the Giants retaining both JPP and Hankins. I think the front office's target cap allocation is 15-20% for the DLine (that's roughly what it was the Strahan/Tuck/Osi/Kiwi years) which would be $40-45M total. Vernon and Snacks are already on the books for ~$26M in 2017. Unless Hankins has a poor season, I see him getting at least $8M per and after a monster season I see JPP getting a big deal somewhere. :=)
Highly doubt they extend him after this season. The Giants will have all the leverage since they essentially control him for 3 more seasons beyond the 2016 season:
2017: final year of rookie deal
2018: 5th year team option (well below market value since he wasn't a top 10 pick)
2019: franchise tag, so still arguably below market value
Technically they could probably tag him again in 2020, but the cost would be prohibitive by then. The time to sign him to an extension is probably after the 2017 season.
I don't know what the FO is thinking, but i'd prefer to resign Beckham before the option year. The sooner you sign him the more reasonable his contract will be in the long run.
Trying to draw comparisons to another nyg player like him with similar immediate progression of excellence and how the Giants handled it financially... Next to impossible as really only LT busted out as the best ever early on and the financial dynamics of the league don't compare to now but I'd be curious on how they handled LT's first veteran contract and I guess shockey would come close as he was a pro bowl player first 3-4 years. Be curious to see when shockey and LT got paid that second deal. May not even be relevant...
Guys like LT, Shockey, Strahan, Bavaro never hit FA. Some had different career archs but the Giants rarely let their true, somewhat clean greats get even close to FA, if memory serves...
No FA but just occurred to me Bavaro held out so he must have been close to the end. Forget LT and Bavaro -- shockey would be the best template to compare when speculating on beckham's deal.
I don't know what the FO is thinking, but i'd prefer to resign Beckham before the option year. The sooner you sign him the more reasonable his contract will be in the long run.
Debatable. Philly didn't get much of a discount, if any, when they re-signed Ertz and Lane Johnson this season.
Great player, but played at a non-premium position and was often banged up (never played 16 games).
I'd look to Strahan and Eli as the best comps. Top 3 DE in the league in his prime (at least 1 holdout) and the franchise QB. IIRC, Eli came close to being tagged once.
But there's still several years to go before the Giants get to that point and anything can happen. The Giants should and probably would offer around the same contract that Brown, Jones, Hopkins, etc. are getting at that point.
There's no point in worrying about it now. We have no idea what position the Giants will be in with their personnel. Maybe Eli takes a pay cut at the tail end of his career? Maybe the Giants move on and have a cost controlled QB? Maybe injuries open up cash for the Giants?
Our we really worrying that players will play so well
But there's still several years to go before the Giants get to that point and anything can happen. The Giants should and probably would offer around the same contract that Brown, Jones, Hopkins, etc. are getting at that point.
There's no point in worrying about it now. We have no idea what position the Giants will be in with their personnel. Maybe Eli takes a pay cut at the tail end of his career? Maybe the Giants move on and have a cost controlled QB? Maybe injuries open up cash for the Giants?
Jones (signed through 2020) and Brown (will be ~30 when his contract expires after 2017) probably aren't very relevant, but that's a good point about Hopkins. Texans just picked up his option for 2017, so assuming the Giants pick up Beckhams for 2018, Hopkins will be a FA (or extended) one year before before Beckham. I'd expect Hopkins eventual extension to exceed the deals we just saw for Green, Dez, Julio by a couple $$ (comparable player, increasing cap). The Hopkins deal will then be the starting point for Beckham's eventual deal.
I'm guessing Beckham's 2018 option (to be picked up next offseason) will be in the $8-9M range. Even the higher end of that range is ~40% below market value!
But I was looking more for the guy that busted out early and whether the Giants signed that guy 2 years prior to FA. I believe Shockey never got close to FA.
I found it...from Oct 2005:
Quote:
Tight end Jeremy Shockey, a key component in a New York Giants offense that has emerged as one of the NFL's most explosive units, on Wednesday signed a five-year contract extension that carries him through the 2011 season.
The deal, negotiated by agent Drew Rosenhaus, makes Shockey the highest paid tight end in the league in terms of the average in "new money" for the extension. The total "new money" is $26.38 million and the various bonuses total $13.9 million.
Shockey, 25, had this season and the 2006 campaign remaining on his original contract, at base salaries of $1.723 million for this year and $2.07 million for next season. As part of the new deal, those base salaries were altered.
The initial signing bonus for the extension is $3 million and there is an option bonus of $7.5 million due in March of 2006 that is guaranteed for injury. That is a key, since some new deals, like the one signed last year by Baltimore tight end Todd Heap, does not have a guaranteed option. There is also a $1 million roster bonus to be paid in the spring of '07 and a total of $2.4 million in reporting bonuses. The breakdown on the reporting bonuses: $250,000 for 2006, $150,000 for 2007 and then $500,000 each for 2008-2011.
so the last time the Giants had a guy even close to Beckham
or a guy that busted out as a rookie and maintained a great level of play throughout, they signed that guy to a long term deal when he had 1.5 years left on his rookie deal.
So expect the Giants do sign Beckham midway through next season I believe?
Sure he wasn't (arguably) a top 5 player at his position, but it was obvious he was going to get franchise QB money with his extension(s).
Might also depend on what Beckham is looking for. Is he "content" to sign an extension that makes him the highest paid WR ever (Megatron's deal was 7 yrs/$113M or ~$16.2M per season)? Or does he want to blow open the WR market like Megatron initially did (now several WRs make in the $14-15M range) and like Suh did with DL? If Beckham keeps improving, he'll be clearly the top WR in the NFL just as Megatron was at the time.
Basically, if Beckham is ok with $16-17M per I can see it getting done sooner than later, but if he wants $20M+, it's going to look like these Von Miller negotations.
If you are asking what could we realistically get - I don't know the answer.
I think we'd need a superstar package - 2 1's to get started, maybe throw in a 3rd.
I'm with you though - no trading OBJ - don't want to go up against him.
Well if Eli was at the end of his career and there was a top QB coming out in the next draft then I could see making the deal to get the next franchise QB.
I like it...more like "love it", when the Giants aren't up against the wall with little cap space to work with. They don't need to have the most cap space, just plenty of space to work with and plug obvious holes while keeping their meat and potatoes guys
Probably close to what the Eagles just gave up for their potential QB. You're talking about 2 dirt cheap years + a 3rd cost controlled year of arguably the top player at a premium position. WRs are what, the 3rd highest paid positions (behind QBs and pass rushers)? Beckham makes about 1/10 of the other top WRs which basically means you have an elite WR and an "extra" $13-14M to spend elsewhere.
I dread the thought of him becoming an unrestricted free agent. Don't want to spend $20MM/yr or more to sign him, nor do I want to lose him. I would much rather start paying him more in 2017.
Since I'm no cap expert I would be very interested in the take of those who track the cap and salaries more closely than I.
What if Hankins has a breakout year, due more to the talent to the left and right of him?
You basically have OBj for the next 4 years, with the option year, option....
While some see this excess cap and want to spend it on a RT, you have some guys who you have to sign for next season, and might need to roll over this cap next year....
2017: final year of rookie deal
2018: 5th year team option (well below market value since he wasn't a top 10 pick)
2019: franchise tag, so still arguably below market value
Technically they could probably tag him again in 2020, but the cost would be prohibitive by then. The time to sign him to an extension is probably after the 2017 season.
Yes, it's due to the restructuring and signing bonus. You don't get salary cap relief because those are dollar amounts already paid, they were just amortized at the time of the deal for cap purposes.
DLine - With two big deals already in place (Vernon/Snacks), I don't see the Giants retaining both JPP and Hankins. I think the front office's target cap allocation is 15-20% for the DLine (that's roughly what it was the Strahan/Tuck/Osi/Kiwi years) which would be $40-45M total. Vernon and Snacks are already on the books for ~$26M in 2017. Unless Hankins has a poor season, I see him getting at least $8M per and after a monster season I see JPP getting a big deal somewhere. :=)
2017: final year of rookie deal
2018: 5th year team option (well below market value since he wasn't a top 10 pick)
2019: franchise tag, so still arguably below market value
Technically they could probably tag him again in 2020, but the cost would be prohibitive by then. The time to sign him to an extension is probably after the 2017 season.
I don't know what the FO is thinking, but i'd prefer to resign Beckham before the option year. The sooner you sign him the more reasonable his contract will be in the long run.
Nope, it's the same as him being cut.
I don't know what the FO is thinking, but i'd prefer to resign Beckham before the option year. The sooner you sign him the more reasonable his contract will be in the long run.
Debatable. Philly didn't get much of a discount, if any, when they re-signed Ertz and Lane Johnson this season.
I'd look to Strahan and Eli as the best comps. Top 3 DE in the league in his prime (at least 1 holdout) and the franchise QB. IIRC, Eli came close to being tagged once.
It's NOT about being douches, it's about what OBJ would want and where we MIGHT draw the line..
There's no point in worrying about it now. We have no idea what position the Giants will be in with their personnel. Maybe Eli takes a pay cut at the tail end of his career? Maybe the Giants move on and have a cost controlled QB? Maybe injuries open up cash for the Giants?
The only players to dominate for NYG out of the gates, or at least play at a pro bowl level are LT, Shockey and Beckham.
There's no point in worrying about it now. We have no idea what position the Giants will be in with their personnel. Maybe Eli takes a pay cut at the tail end of his career? Maybe the Giants move on and have a cost controlled QB? Maybe injuries open up cash for the Giants?
Jones (signed through 2020) and Brown (will be ~30 when his contract expires after 2017) probably aren't very relevant, but that's a good point about Hopkins. Texans just picked up his option for 2017, so assuming the Giants pick up Beckhams for 2018, Hopkins will be a FA (or extended) one year before before Beckham. I'd expect Hopkins eventual extension to exceed the deals we just saw for Green, Dez, Julio by a couple $$ (comparable player, increasing cap). The Hopkins deal will then be the starting point for Beckham's eventual deal.
The only players to dominate for NYG out of the gates, or at least play at a pro bowl level are LT, Shockey and Beckham.
But he was dominating by the time his contract negotiations came around...
I found it...from Oct 2005:
The deal, negotiated by agent Drew Rosenhaus, makes Shockey the highest paid tight end in the league in terms of the average in "new money" for the extension. The total "new money" is $26.38 million and the various bonuses total $13.9 million.
Shockey, 25, had this season and the 2006 campaign remaining on his original contract, at base salaries of $1.723 million for this year and $2.07 million for next season. As part of the new deal, those base salaries were altered.
The initial signing bonus for the extension is $3 million and there is an option bonus of $7.5 million due in March of 2006 that is guaranteed for injury. That is a key, since some new deals, like the one signed last year by Baltimore tight end Todd Heap, does not have a guaranteed option. There is also a $1 million roster bonus to be paid in the spring of '07 and a total of $2.4 million in reporting bonuses. The breakdown on the reporting bonuses: $250,000 for 2006, $150,000 for 2007 and then $500,000 each for 2008-2011.
So expect the Giants do sign Beckham midway through next season I believe?
Might also depend on what Beckham is looking for. Is he "content" to sign an extension that makes him the highest paid WR ever (Megatron's deal was 7 yrs/$113M or ~$16.2M per season)? Or does he want to blow open the WR market like Megatron initially did (now several WRs make in the $14-15M range) and like Suh did with DL? If Beckham keeps improving, he'll be clearly the top WR in the NFL just as Megatron was at the time.
Basically, if Beckham is ok with $16-17M per I can see it getting done sooner than later, but if he wants $20M+, it's going to look like these Von Miller negotations.
If you are asking what could we realistically get - I don't know the answer.
I think we'd need a superstar package - 2 1's to get started, maybe throw in a 3rd.
I'm with you though - no trading OBJ - don't want to go up against him.
If you are asking what could we realistically get - I don't know the answer.
I think we'd need a superstar package - 2 1's to get started, maybe throw in a 3rd.
I'm with you though - no trading OBJ - don't want to go up against him.
Well if Eli was at the end of his career and there was a top QB coming out in the next draft then I could see making the deal to get the next franchise QB.