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Not sure about NFT on this, but I wonder if the Giants

BlueLou : 6/25/2016 2:05 pm
have an acupuncturist on staff, and if they don't, why the F not? The immediate application of acupressure (or acupuncture, I imagine) to certain types of injuries is the best remedy there is to promote a rapid recovery in my experience.

I bet plenty of other folks who have practiced MA under teachers with high level proficiency in the Asian healing methods could attest the same, even if the broader medical community still has trouble accepting that or understanding why it works.

And apparently it has become, albeit slowly, more and more widespread in usage by top professional athletes. The link below reports that and in fact a quick Google search revealed a few other articles about this as well.

We talk about MacAdoo bringing in Aaron Wellman and that so far appears to be a good move. But why not an acupuncturist on staff? If anyone in the whole front office spent just a little time researching superior ways to treat both injuries (some anyway) and pain (where accupuncture is much more widely accepted as a valuable methodology) they would conclude that, at the very least, it sure as hell wouldn't hurt anyone's odds of getting back on the field healthy faster after a variety of injuries.

Monroe pushes medical marijuana as a safer and healthier alternative to the opioids NFL team doctors dispense liberally? How about championing accupuncture? To relieve pain at least, but it can do much more.
Why not accupuncture for the NFL? - ( New Window )
I'm not sure I understand  
leatherneck570 : 6/25/2016 4:04 pm : link
The need for one to be on the staff. They have a handful of orthopedic specialist and a physician. Everything else is done by specialist outside teh facility. Why would this be any different?
can you point me to the rigorous studies  
chris r : 6/25/2016 5:00 pm : link
demonstrating the efficacy of acupuncture?
RE: I'm not sure I understand  
BlueLou : 6/25/2016 8:23 pm : link
In comment 13009075 leatherneck570 said:
Quote:
The need for one to be on the staff. They have a handful of orthopedic specialist and a physician. Everything else is done by specialist outside teh facility. Why would this be any different?


For two reasons: the first being that the most effective use of accupuncture or acupressure is immediately after the injury. The efficacy is based on the ability of the treatment to prevent the normal swelling that occurs after a severe sprain to a joint. In my experience, the normal swelling occurs overnight, so you'd need the practitioner to be available on the sidelines of games and practices.

The second reason is that the main benefit of the treatment is to the team re the players' availability. In my case of a severely sprained ankle, I was able to continue my MA training the next day with about 90% of the use of the injured joint. My teacher told me the exact opposite of normal orthopedic advice, ie instead of immobilizing the ankle I was told to use it normally but only to alternate hot and cold compresses on it while I did rest it, to the limits of my tolerance.

I had had prior sprains, in fact to the same ankle. I was shocked it didn't swell up but a minute fraction of what it had the other times, and in fact I practiced normally on it the next day in all regards.

A few years later I reinjure the same ankle again at work, and with Kaiser medical through work had to go to an orthopedic specialist. I asked for accupuncture treatment and was denied it because the doctor flat out didn't believe my story, or that it was justified.

I should have kicked him in the nuts. Or simply stayed out of work for the two weeks I had to hobble around one legged on crutches...
RE: can you point me to the rigorous studies  
BlueLou : 6/25/2016 8:36 pm : link
In comment 13009089 chris r said:
Quote:
demonstrating the efficacy of acupuncture?


If I were consulting a team about injury treatment, I'd suggest that they can wait for major double blind studies to be conducted and approved by the AMA, and help fund those for a few million $$, or just hire an acupuncturist with solid credentials for a year at maybe $80k and see for themselves if it at all works. What's the value of 1 NFL player NOT MISSING one game during the year because of a sprained joint? What if it's 2-3 or more games not missed, and by 2-3 players?

What seems like the savvy course of action?

For all we know maybe some teams already employ one? If I were a GM running a club that had one and found the treatment effective, I sure as heck would not be conference calling every other team in the league about it to spread the good news. Would you?
They turned down my  
madgiantscow009 : 6/25/2016 11:01 pm : link
recommendation for a witch doctor.
It's pseudoscience. People can certainly claim its efficacy  
regulator : 6/26/2016 1:21 am : link
but there is no reason for the Giants, or any other organization, to adopt acupuncture as part of its official training regimen. None of the studies to date have indicated any sort of pain relief benefit greater than placebo.

Of course, players can pursue anything (legal) they believe may work, and often the psychological element is just as important as the physiology.
RE: It's pseudoscience. People can certainly claim its efficacy  
BlueLou : 6/26/2016 3:53 am : link
In comment 13009453 regulator said:
Quote:
but there is no reason for the Giants, or any other organization, to adopt acupuncture as part of its official training regimen. None of the studies to date have indicated any sort of pain relief benefit greater than placebo.

Of course, players can pursue anything (legal) they believe may work, and often the psychological element is just as important as the physiology.


Even if it's pseudoscience or simply a placebo effect (I gather you didn't read the link I provided, but that's not the point I am arguing now) there absolutely IS a reason too try it based on anecdotal evidence alone. Actually 2 reasons. 1) To see for themselves if it works re getting guys back on the field faster. 2) To see if it can lessen opiates usage.

As another anecdotal aside another of my teachers in the MA school I attended asked if I could take him to San Francisco University's (UC's medical college) library to check out some books on orthopedic medicine. He spent about an hour in the library looking through books, but in the end decided not to check any out. On the way back to the studio he said to me "western doctors don't know squat about joints."

Again I am not making a judgement here about science, and I am sure orthopedic medicine has made huge gains in the past 30 plus years since my experiences in MA, both in understanding and in surgical techniques as evidenced by the return of Adrian Peterson among others.

But what would be the harm, let alone the modest cost, in trying it?

It wouldn't replace normal orthopedic practices or any other medical treatment obviously. It would be a low cost adjunct to the training and physical therapy programs currently used.
As for real scientific evidence, the largest study to date that I  
BlueLou : 6/26/2016 4:27 am : link
found, with the enormous effort of a Google search and scanning the 3rd article down the list, popped up the following research conducted by the NIH covering 18,000 cases.

One of the biggest problems with accupuncture research is finding funding for it. The study link concerns chronic pain issues. The same issues for which Monroe is championing medical marijuana over opiates currently liberally dispensed. Pharmaceutical companies aren't funding this research, for obvious reasons. From 2012.

Another article that popped up referenced a current study at Rutgers University that indicates that accupuncture combined with mild electrical stimulation can legitimately alleviate "severe inflammation".

30+ years ago my teacher explained that acupressure and accupuncture work by stimulating and directing the body's own "electrical system." 30+ years ago he was confident that western medical science eventually "discover" this.
Accupuncture provides true pain relief in studies - ( New Window )
Yo bitches!  
BlueLou : 6/26/2016 1:32 pm : link
Crickets?

Really was difficult to type "scientific studies of accupuncture", eh?

Especially Radar...
Acupuncture  
FloridaGfan : 6/26/2016 2:05 pm : link
Did you see the program "Catching Odell" on NFL on June 6th where it showed Odell talking to his Mother while on an Acupuncture table getting needles put in all over his body? I don't know if it was to relieve pain or for preventive measures (if that is even feasible) but i don't think he is the only athlete to do this.
I am not a doctor nor a biological researcher but I always  
Jimmy Googs : 6/26/2016 2:06 pm : link
considered acupuncture to be an unproven medical procedure much like a placebo.

We don't seem to be a society where people leave "money on the table" to often BlueLou, so if there really was merit to it working then funding and/or the business case would have materialized by now.

But hell, when i hurt my back I feel better after a martini too...



Chiropractics  
XBRONX : 6/26/2016 2:10 pm : link
was thought to fake science by many. Acupuncture works.
RE: Acupuncture  
BlueLou : 6/26/2016 2:48 pm : link
In comment 13009832 FloridaGfan said:
Quote:
Did you see the program "Catching Odell" on NFL on June 6th where it showed Odell talking to his Mother while on an Acupuncture table getting needles put in all over his body? I don't know if it was to relieve pain or for preventive measures (if that is even feasible) but i don't think he is the only athlete to do this.


Didn't see it, had no idea OBJ was using it. Time for Cruz to be treated and Berhe as well. The reduction of inflammation was the part that shocked me in my treatment. I was stunned my sprained ankle didn't blow up the next day.

Good I don't get it either, NFL owners and managers "leaving money on the table."
Much of  
XBRONX : 6/26/2016 2:51 pm : link
"traditional" medicine is a pseudoscience.
I have done some work  
grizz299 : 6/26/2016 7:46 pm : link

for companies that are hired to do some of the research on drugs before the are introduced to the market. Millions have to spent in blind studies proving (or attmepting to prove) that the drug has no severe side effects.
I am for the companies. They have improved the quality of life for most of us. They might made killings but they also take risks and put up capital and spend on R & D on work that wouldn't happen without the ugly profit motive to push them.
There's always conspiracy theories, the one from my use said the man who invented a better carburator that produced better milage was killed.
The union worker who tells his boss (this in a free market where monopolies are forbidden) "you buy from me or you don't buy from anyone and are out of business"...is usually the worst. Gov regulation and competition and when they make it and save our little lives we're annoyed.
Thank god for Western medicine and the drug companies.
RE: Chiropractics  
Patrick77 : 6/26/2016 8:36 pm : link
In comment 13009835 XBRONX said:
Quote:
was thought to fake science by many. Acupuncture works.


I think you confused the word "was" above with the word "is".

I have had both, my insurance from work covers them and Physio, massages etc.... Whether it is the placebo effect or real relief I really don't care.
How do you know that they don't have one?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/27/2016 1:29 am : link
Accupuncture isn't a radical new thing. It's been around forever. It's just more "en vogue" now than it used to be when it was looked at like some chinese oddity.

The Giants have made yoga classes available for players since way back in 2007. Chances are they probably do offer access to accupuncture therapy.
RE: How do you know that they don't have one?  
BlueLou : 6/27/2016 3:16 am : link
In comment 13010406 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Accupuncture isn't a radical new thing. It's been around forever. It's just more "en vogue" now than it used to be when it was looked at like some chinese oddity.

The Giants have made yoga classes available for players since way back in 2007. Chances are they probably do offer access to accupuncture therapy.


Look back at the OP TTH, it is worded as a question. But they damn well might, I don't know.

But beyond "access to" why not have one at the facility and on the sideline, 24/7, to deal with (some) injuries immediately? That's the most beneficial use of the technique in my experience.
"bleeding"  
grizz299 : 6/27/2016 8:05 am : link
Was another ancient "cure all", that lasted for centuries. We know that the Neanderthal ground holes in the skulls of people sufferng from headaches.

Western medicine has a lot to learn from these ancient cultures and with an arrogance born from testing and the empirical method their reluctance to go with the tried and true speaks to a hubris that's harmful.
Things used to be so much better before they cleaned the scalpels and when a good shot of bourbon instead of modern anathesia dulled the pain.
That's even true with cars. I hate this paint that doesn't need weekly waxing, the bumpers that don't rust, the 1000, ooo btween tuneups, disc breaks and radial tires, stereo and air conditioning, air bags and seatbelts and these new six speed trannys'.
They don't build them like they used to, for that's for sure.
RE:  
BlueLou : 6/27/2016 10:15 am : link
In comment 13010466 grizz299 said:
Quote:
Was another ancient "cure all", that lasted for centuries. We know that the Neanderthal ground holes in the skulls of people sufferng from headaches.

Western medicine has a lot to learn from these ancient cultures and with an arrogance born from testing and the empirical method their reluctance to go with the tried and true speaks to a hubris that's harmful.
Things used to be so much better before they cleaned the scalpels and when a good shot of bourbon instead of modern anathesia dulled the pain.
That's even true with cars. I hate this paint that doesn't need weekly waxing, the bumpers that don't rust, the 1000, ooo btween tuneups, disc breaks and radial tires, stereo and air conditioning, air bags and seatbelts and these new six speed trannys'.
They don't build them like they used to, for that's for sure.


Dude. You need to find religion or something...















I think it's in the bottom of that frying basket.
or you  
grizz299 : 6/27/2016 10:45 am : link
need a sprinkling of wit and intellect. And note, I didn't personalize.

"Ahhh, he didn't get it", and everyone feigns surprise.
RE: or you  
BlueLou : 6/28/2016 9:38 pm : link
In comment 13010702 grizz299 said:
Quote:
need a sprinkling of wit and intellect. And note, I didn't personalize.

"Ahhh, he didn't get it", and everyone feigns surprise.


You didn't personalize? So that makes your crass, peurile, almost utterly nonsensical post that insults not merely a nation or a culture but an entire continent of people and their methods and beliefs developed over thousands of years an intellectual joke I didn't get?

Delusional is not in the least amusing. Try to take notice of how folks are reacting to many of your posts...

Seriously - BBI loves to pile on a good jocular insult, but you are hanging by a thread. What part of Fuck Off didn't you understand from (was it pjacs?) the last person whose post you attacked.

Your posts aren't intelligible enough generally to qualify for idiotic post of the year... yet.

But don't let that stop you!
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