NFT: Knicks Talk 6/26 - Coaching Staff Shaping Up

may be out of your range.

I don't think it is likely he comes to NY. Probably less than a 5% chance. But if you are the GM, you can't think that way. You have to give yourself an opportunity to sign him by making the roster attractive.

Donnie Walsh put all his eggs in one basket and mortgaged the future to get Lebron. He never had a chance and killed the franchise.

Phil is doing it the smart way. He is making the roster more attractive but without mortgaging the future. It's like buying a lottery ticket. Your chances of winning are small but you do have a chance compared to the guy who did not buy a ticket. And you have not ruined your future by mortgaging the house like the guy who bought 10, 000 tickets.

Knicks have really no chance at KD train. I refuse to get sucked in to reports like I did with the Lebron sweepstakes. I was really let down when he picked the Heat I was sure he was coming to the Knicks.

In comment 13009806 Giantfootball025 said:

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Knicks have really no chance at KD train. I refuse to get sucked in to reports like I did with the Lebron sweepstakes. I was really let down when he picked the Heat I was sure he was coming to the Knicks.

We have to preface everything apparently with I don't think he is coming but there is a big difference between trying to sign Durante this year and Lebrun in 2010

Considering what ended up happening- if he really wanted to come to NYC he could have engineered a similar deal. KD to the Knicks doesn't really make them contenders and there's no room to bring a similar player along.

But due to the circumstances involving Lebrons move.

In comment 13009851 Sgrcts said:

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KD to the Knicks doesn't really make them contenders

Wat?

In comment 13009851 Sgrcts said:

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Considering what ended up happening- if he really wanted to come to NYC he could have engineered a similar deal. KD to the Knicks doesn't really make them contenders and there's no room to bring a similar player along.

Stop talking

that we wouldn't be contenders with KD is silly, so that's not worth addressing.

As for Noah vs Horford, I don't think anyone is disputing that Horford right now is better. But he's also far more expensive and should have more suitors.

Noah is a better fit for what the Knicks need right now relative to his price tag. The point is to allot your resources in a way to maximize your team, and the fact is I'd rather have Noah at 15M and a max wing player than vice versa. Especially since we have other serviceable guys at the 5.

In comment 13009865 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

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In comment 13009851 Sgrcts said: Quote: Considering what ended up happening- if he really wanted to come to NYC he could have engineered a similar deal. KD to the Knicks doesn't really make them contenders and there's no room to bring a similar player along. Stop talking

If you think adding KD to Rose/Melo/KP/OQuinn/Holliday puts them on the Warriors/Cavs/Spurs or Thunder with KD level you should watch some other teams besides the Knicks on occasion. No combo of three Knicks mentioned is as good as KD/Westbrook/Adams or Curry/Klay/Draymond or Blake/CP3/Jordan or Lebron/Kyrie/Love. Adding KD in doesn't change that equation, never mind the fact that no trio of Knicks is in the stratosphere of KD/Curry/Klay/Draymond or KD/Kawhi/Aldridge, again even if you include KD on the Knicks. Now include the fact that Knicks have no one else on the roster and all the other names teams besides the Clippers are incredibly deep, it's pretty safe to say adding KD to this team doesn't make them automatic contenders this year or anything close. No one even took the Thunder this season as contenders seriously.

not only would the Knicks be contenders with KD they might be one of the favorites. I think you're undervaluing just how good KP is going to be.

In comment 13009865 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

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In comment 13009851 Sgrcts said: Quote: Considering what ended up happening- if he really wanted to come to NYC he could have engineered a similar deal. KD to the Knicks doesn't really make them contenders and there's no room to bring a similar player along. Stop talking

The gift that keeps on giving 😂🔫

In comment 13009887 Giantfootball025 said:

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not only would the Knicks be contenders with KD they might be one of the favorites. I think you're undervaluing just how good KP is going to be.

Disagree- I LOVE KP. I loved it when the pick happened. I bought season tickets because of him. In fact most of my disappointment with the moves we've made is they aren't showing a commitment to building around him. I think KP can end up a top 5-10 player in the NBA.

However to expect him to turn into a top 25 player in the next year is asking a lot. Doesn't happen too often for young players to take that leap that quickly.

In comment 13009889 Canton said:

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The gift that keeps on giving 😂🔫

Like your herpes?

i read he wont take meetings with anyone but the raptors

Max derozan and try and get noah in here

starting 5 of

Rose
Derozan
Melo
Porzingis
Noah

2nd best team in east

How does it register that you've yet to make an actual post about basketball on this thread, only to point out that you think I'm a narcissist? I guess if you can't attack the opinion......

think Batum is a better fit then DeRozan.

I would prefer derozan over batum any day but ideally if we cant snag Durant

I would prefer getting a combo of Whiteside or Horford/Courtney Lee

Rose
Lee
Melo
Porzingis
Whiteside/Horford

not have less interest in Derozan. We need more shooters, not less.

.

In comment 13009905 Anakim said:

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.

He's a dumbass. Should have gone to Wisco. he would have actually won something.

a big who plays great defense, takes pressure off of KP on the defensive end and can also pass the ball. We don't need horford who will cost a lot more. derozan would be a nice player but not at the salary he will get. I would love love love noah and batum. Those additions plus rose melo and Kp and you are potentially looking at the 2 seed in the east and that isn't a stretch at all.

as the backup center all of the sudden the roster isn't that hard to fill out

has been right on the money on this thread.

all seem to say he wants to stay in Toronto. Aside from Durant, he's the most attractive player this year. Young, on the upswing but already proven. He also plays a position of need. Crabbe, Lee, and Turner are all underwhelming to say the least.

Of course, if KD doesn't laugh when you whip out a contract, you sign him first. But that's a pipe dream, probably Derozan as well.

I really don't want to max out Batum. Nice player, but not a top 3 player on a championship team.

In comment 13009930 Ash_3 said:

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has been right on the money on this thread.

So you agree that the Knicks with Durant are not a contender?

In comment 13009936 Jon in NYC said:

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In comment 13009930 Ash_3 said: Quote: has been right on the money on this thread. So you agree that the Knicks with Durant are not a contender?

I think the Knicks with Durant have an outside shot at making the finals. I think Rose is going to break down and is a PG whose primary value is scoring and less so creating for others and there wouldn't be enough of the basketball to go around with a Rose/Melo/Durant/KP lineup. I also think that team would get shredded defensively.

If by some miracle they got past the Cavs, they'd promptly get smashed by whoever came out of the West.

In comment 13009950 Ash_3 said:

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In comment 13009936 Jon in NYC said: Quote: In comment 13009930 Ash_3 said: Quote: has been right on the money on this thread. So you agree that the Knicks with Durant are not a contender? I think the Knicks with Durant have an outside shot at making the finals. I think Rose is going to break down and is a PG whose primary value is scoring and less so creating for others and there wouldn't be enough of the basketball to go around with a Rose/Melo/Durant/KP lineup. I also think that team would get shredded defensively. If by some miracle they got past the Cavs, they'd promptly get smashed by whoever came out of the West.

So you have them penciled into the ECF with a shot of beating the reigning champs.


hmmm, sounds like a contender to me?

In comment 13009950 Ash_3 said:

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In comment 13009936 Jon in NYC said: Quote: In comment 13009930 Ash_3 said: Quote: has been right on the money on this thread. So you agree that the Knicks with Durant are not a contender? I think the Knicks with Durant have an outside shot at making the finals. I think Rose is going to break down and is a PG whose primary value is scoring and less so creating for others and there wouldn't be enough of the basketball to go around with a Rose/Melo/Durant/KP lineup. I also think that team would get shredded defensively. If by some miracle they got past the Cavs, they'd promptly get smashed by whoever came out of the West.

So if they were to beat the Cavs, they would get smashed by a team from a conference they just beat? If they get KD, OKC would be out. SA is a huge question mark with age questions. GS would obviously be very good.

Here's the thing with the NBA, there are only a few elite teams anymore. Cleveland, GS, and maybe SA would be the only elite ones if KD left OKC.

He has always been the main option, right now he is the second option and if Durant came here he would be the 3rd option..

He's always had to be the scorer in new York he can look for others...

Also whiteside says he is making his decision July 1st

In comment 13009963 dep026 said:

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In comment 13009950 Ash_3 said: Quote: In comment 13009936 Jon in NYC said: Quote: In comment 13009930 Ash_3 said: Quote: has been right on the money on this thread. So you agree that the Knicks with Durant are not a contender? I think the Knicks with Durant have an outside shot at making the finals. I think Rose is going to break down and is a PG whose primary value is scoring and less so creating for others and there wouldn't be enough of the basketball to go around with a Rose/Melo/Durant/KP lineup. I also think that team would get shredded defensively. If by some miracle they got past the Cavs, they'd promptly get smashed by whoever came out of the West. So if they were to beat the Cavs, they would get smashed by a team from a conference they just beat? If they get KD, OKC would be out. SA is a huge question mark with age questions. GS would obviously be very good. Here's the thing with the NBA, there are only a few elite teams anymore. Cleveland, GS, and maybe SA would be the only elite ones if KD left OKC.

I had hoped "by some miracle" conveyed how unlikely I think that Knicks squad's victory was.

Knicks might lose in the conference finals if we sign Durant, so let's just forget the whole thing.

In comment 13009965 Ash_3 said:

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In comment 13009963 dep026 said: Quote: In comment 13009950 Ash_3 said: Quote: In comment 13009936 Jon in NYC said: Quote: In comment 13009930 Ash_3 said: Quote: has been right on the money on this thread. So you agree that the Knicks with Durant are not a contender? I think the Knicks with Durant have an outside shot at making the finals. I think Rose is going to break down and is a PG whose primary value is scoring and less so creating for others and there wouldn't be enough of the basketball to go around with a Rose/Melo/Durant/KP lineup. I also think that team would get shredded defensively. If by some miracle they got past the Cavs, they'd promptly get smashed by whoever came out of the West. So if they were to beat the Cavs, they would get smashed by a team from a conference they just beat? If they get KD, OKC would be out. SA is a huge question mark with age questions. GS would obviously be very good. Here's the thing with the NBA, there are only a few elite teams anymore. Cleveland, GS, and maybe SA would be the only elite ones if KD left OKC. I had hoped "by some miracle" conveyed how unlikely I think that Knicks squad's victory was.

That's fine. Too many variables in play for me to judge whether or not they could face the Cavs in a competitive series. But they damn sure are contenders.

I think if the Knicks somehow landed KD and Noah, they would be better than the Cavs. Obviously, it would depend on Rose/Noah staying healthy. Noah, if healthy, is when Tristan Thompson strives to be. Obviously that guy named Lebron would be a monster to deal with..... but Lebron would be the only one who could defend KD which may affect him on the offensive end.

short-term "show me" contract. I would like to know exactly how far Thibs ran him into the ground before I extend a lucrative, long-term contract.


I read a fantasy basketball article from a few weeks ago on Rotoworld. It ranked all of the rookies since 2006 (who played 20+ minutes a night and 40+ games) based on what percentile they finished in the league overall in fantasy their respective rookie seasons.

The top 5 rookies in 9 category (FG%, FT%, Pts, 3pt FGs made, Rebs, Asts, Stls, Blks, & Turnovers) fantasy since 2006 were:

1 - Karl-Anthony Towns
2 - Stephen Curry
3 - Anthony Davis
4 - Kristaps Porzingis
5 - Kyrie Irving

That's how crazy KP's rookie season was. Among the other rookies in the top 25 were Durant, Lillard, Marc Gasol, Khawi Leonard, Horford, John Wall, and Derrick Rose. To be fair, there are players who put up terrible fantasy numbers as rookies who went on to be good players and vice-versa (Landry Fields).

In comment 13009969 bceagle05 said:

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Knicks might lose in the conference finals if we sign Durant, so let's just forget the whole thing.

Bc, that doesn't follow. If you can sign Durant, you sign Durant. That's obvious and worry about adjustments later.

I just am noting that a) the fit with Durant on *this* roster is really awkward and b) that it's extremely unlikely he signs here unless he sees Rose through MVP-tinted glasses.

In comment 13009972 dep026 said:

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I think if the Knicks somehow landed KD and Noah, they would be better than the Cavs. Obviously, it would depend on Rose/Noah staying healthy. Noah, if healthy, is when Tristan Thompson strives to be. Obviously that guy named Lebron would be a monster to deal with..... but Lebron would be the only one who could defend KD which may affect him on the offensive end.

Sure and having an excellent passing big like Noah would mitigate some of the issues that come with a score-first PG like Rose. I just think it's unlikely that either of them show much durability going forward, especially Rose.

Chicago is a well run franchise. They traded Rose for a good big on a great contract and a guy who just had an uninspired rookie year. Perhaps they think they can get Conley, but they wouldn't have traded Rose if they thought he could return to form. Chicago's been a good organization for years and I trust their judgment much more than I do the Knicks FO.

most Bulls fans would say that their organization is actually one of the worst run ones in sports.

put up 17/5/3 on .470/370 last year after he got his mask off. That's pretty damn good for a player one year removed from an ACL. He only figures to get stronger too. He's 27 years old.

I'm a Knick optimist, but I'm bullish on Rose returning to form. Noah I'm less sure of, but I'm willing to bring him on board and take that risk.

It's kind of hopeless to try to sway the dreamers in here. We might as well just step back and let their hopes be destroyed and come back when the dust settles.

In comment 13009982 dep026 said:

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most Bulls fans would say that their organization is actually one of the worst run ones in sports.

Those same bulls fans wouldn't last one day in the hell hole that is being a Knicks fan then lol.

In comment 13009985 Sgrcts said:

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It's kind of hopeless to try to sway the dreamers in here. We might as well just step back and let their hopes be destroyed and come back when the dust settles.

Who gets joy in shitting on hopes and dreams?

In comment 13009982 dep026 said:

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most Bulls fans would say that their organization is actually one of the worst run ones in sports.

You guys bitch and moan incessantly, but that's not an index for whether it's well run or not.

Weird how the roster as of today + KD is being compared to the Warriors/Cavs as of today.

Also, I guess the definition of "contender" has shifted to "guaranteed to win the championship."

In comment 13009985 Sgrcts said:

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It's kind of hopeless to try to sway the dreamers in here. We might as well just step back and let their hopes be destroyed and come back when the dust settles.

I agree. I'm planning on stepping back and just trying to enjoy KP's excellence. Also glad that Rose is an expiring, since if he sucks or breaks down (as I expect him to), we're not on the hook even if the trade was bad asset management.

In comment 13009991 widmerseyebrow said:

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Weird how the roster as of today + KD is being compared to the Warriors/Cavs as of today. Also, I guess the definition of "contender" has shifted to "guaranteed to win the championship."

There's a lot of strawman construction here and it's irritating. Both you and I understand that a contender is a team with a non-trivial shot at winning the title. Now we might disagree about whether such and such a team is a contender by that definition, but it does not mean we're using different definitions.

In comment 13009985 Sgrcts said:

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It's kind of hopeless to try to sway the dreamers in here. We might as well just step back and let their hopes be destroyed and come back when the dust settles.

The fact that you refer to them as dreamers shows that you realize that they know the chance of Durant coming is slim to none. Yet you continue to comment on it? For what? Who cares?

In comment 13009985 Sgrcts said:

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It's kind of hopeless to try to sway the dreamers in here. We might as well just step back and let their hopes be destroyed and come back when the dust settles.

What's to sway? Everyone pretty much agrees Durant to NY is slim to none. It's just that the rest of us can enjoy a hypothetical discussion without being thrown into a fit of anger.

In comment 13009986 Sgrcts said:

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In comment 13009982 dep026 said: Quote: most Bulls fans would say that their organization is actually one of the worst run ones in sports. Those same bulls fans wouldn't last one day in the hell hole that is being a Knicks fan then lol.

Not disagreeing with that one bit. But Foreman and Paxson are not hitting the right buttons anymore.

that we're on the meeting list and the Lakers are not. That alone is a step in the right direction.