I honestly have no idea which one "Wins", seems like everyone is leaning towards Cersei but I think Margaery is fully capable of out Cerseing Cersei. I really hope Tommen dies though. What an annoying character.
I hope the reveal most of us expect occurs tonight, ending the episode with a Bran vision is what I hope they do.
I love the Sansa-Jon trust issues because of that piece of junk Littlefinger. I want Baelish dead, but I know that he and Varys are 2 of the most likely people to be standing when this thing is all over.
Tommen killed himself and Cersei didn't even give a fuck.
RIP Margaery....
RE: I say this episode was better than episode 9 Â
For Ned to say that Jon Snow is his sisters baby and she was raped by an unknown person other than telling his wife that he had a baby with another woman and having Jon snow live his life as a bastard?
For Ned to say that Jon Snow is his sisters baby and she was raped by an unknown person other than telling his wife that he had a baby with another woman and having Jon snow live his life as a bastard?
Ned made a promise. Ned is an honorable man. Too honorable.
RE: Rhagar is Dany's dead before the show older brother Â
For Ned to say that Jon Snow is his sisters baby and she was raped by an unknown person other than telling his wife that he had a baby with another woman and having Jon snow live his life as a bastard?
Not to get too deep about imaginary people but Ned wood not allow his sister to be disgraced. Having a eastward son was a shame for honorable Ned. He sucked it up for his sister to protect Snow.
Still have Euron out there, with some rumored bad ass magic Â
Season 7 is the fight for kings landing and season 8 is the fight with the white walkers
I can't see Kings Landing dragging out over a whole season. Daenarys is going to crush Cersei and Kings Landing. 1000 ships, 3 dragons, Dorne, the Tyrells, and most likely an eventual alliance with Jon. Cersei doesn't stand a chance.
Has not read the books, and follows the show closely, this Tower of Joy scene has not been explained well. So, was she Murdered by this guy or was she bleeding from child birth? Was she kidnapped and raped or did she elope and have a relationship that Robert didn't know about? Was the whole thing a lie to make Robert not hate the Starks? Was it Roberts baby or were they in this little castle for a year while she was raped and carried the baby to term? I know to people who read the books these answers are obvious but to real non book readers they aren't.
To be born of an "eastward"' father (I'm assuming that means they were born In the east) then it would be to be brought up as a bastard and have the only mother figure in your life hate you?
Has not read the books, and follows the show closely, this Tower of Joy scene has not been explained well. So, was she Murdered by this guy or was she bleeding from child birth? Was she kidnapped and raped or did she elope and have a relationship that Robert didn't know about? Was the whole thing a lie to make Robert not hate the Starks? Was it Roberts baby or were they in this little castle for a year while she was raped and carried the baby to term? I know to people who read the books these answers are obvious but to real non book readers they aren't.
I THINK...that she was kidnapped, raped, impregnated by Rhaegar Tagareyan, and died in child birth.
Dani invading Winterfell
Euron laying in wait
Jaime vs Cersi
Sansa-Jon-Littlefinger trio fighting over the north
Arya now a sick assassin
The Hound doing whatever he does
Bran still north of the wall as the Three Eyed Raven
Brienne just rowing somewhere
Dani invading Winterfell
Euron laying in wait
Jaime vs Cersi
Sansa-Jon-Littlefinger trio fighting over the north
Arya now a sick assassin
The Hound doing whatever he does
Bran still north of the wall as the Three Eyed Raven
Brienne just rowing somewhere
Anything else?
Why would dani invade winterfel? You mean kings landing?
Dani invading Winterfell
Euron laying in wait
Jaime vs Cersi
Sansa-Jon-Littlefinger trio fighting over the north
Arya now a sick assassin
The Hound doing whatever he does
Bran still north of the wall as the Three Eyed Raven
Brienne just rowing somewhere
Anything else?
Why would dani invade winterfel? You mean kings landing?
Dani invading Winterfell
Euron laying in wait
Jaime vs Cersi
Sansa-Jon-Littlefinger trio fighting over the north
Arya now a sick assassin
The Hound doing whatever he does
Bran still north of the wall as the Three Eyed Raven
Brienne just rowing somewhere
Anything else?
Jorah is still wondering around somewhere looking for a cure...
To be born of an "eastward"' father (I'm assuming that means they were born In the east) then it would be to be brought up as a bastard and have the only mother figure in your life hate you?
Jon would of been killed off if, Robert would of known that he was Rhaegar's son. Jon would of had a legit claim to the throne, and Robert was not going to have that.
This is why Ned claimed Jon as his own. No one would question his word as the lord of Winterfell.
Has not read the books, and follows the show closely, this Tower of Joy scene has not been explained well. So, was she Murdered by this guy or was she bleeding from child birth? Was she kidnapped and raped or did she elope and have a relationship that Robert didn't know about? Was the whole thing a lie to make Robert not hate the Starks? Was it Roberts baby or were they in this little castle for a year while she was raped and carried the baby to term? I know to people who read the books these answers are obvious but to real non book readers they aren't.
I THINK...that she was kidnapped, raped, impregnated by Rhaegar Tagareyan, and died in child birth.
No. Watch this scene: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfnl9owFc84
Has not read the books, and follows the show closely, this Tower of Joy scene has not been explained well. So, was she Murdered by this guy or was she bleeding from child birth? Was she kidnapped and raped or did she elope and have a relationship that Robert didn't know about? Was the whole thing a lie to make Robert not hate the Starks? Was it Roberts baby or were they in this little castle for a year while she was raped and carried the baby to term? I know to people who read the books these answers are obvious but to real non book readers they aren't.
Bleeding from child birth.
She ran away with Rhaegar willingly. Rhaegar loved Lyanna but was married to Elia Martell.
Lyanna had Ned say the kid was his bastard so that Robert and the Lannisters didn't kill her kid like they did to Elia and Rhaegar's children.
It was not Robert's baby.
RE: RE: Rhagar is Dany's dead before the show older brother Â
Just Rhaegar's bastard and not Ned's. So he may or may not have a claim for the throne depending on who's point of view we're looking at.
One interesting thing to note about that was the North just tossing out Jon's bastard status and naming him King of the North. Perhaps the rest of Westeros does the same when finding out that Rhaegar was his father regardless of whether he actually married Lyanna before her death or not.
Next season should be good with the condensed storylines now.
I really didn't think Cersei was THAT evil. I mean I knew she was evil and I knew the rumors about the wildfire, but that was just epic. I agree with the poster who mentioned the music in this episode. The "Cersei theme" in this episode was excellent.
Jon fuckin Snow. Lady Mormont stole the scene again.
Littlefinger smirking at Sansa and Varys lurking behind Dany in the final scene. Those 2 play the game better than anyone else.
There were a couple of just ok episodes in this one, but the highs from this season were probably better than any other IMO. Just an great season from a great show. Can't wait to see how this thing ends.
I think if Varys had an ulterior motive, it would be the surprise Â
Rhaegar Was even mentioned in the show as being Dany's older brother. I could be wrong but I've watched the show twice. Without book readers this show would be unable to follow some of the details.
Rhaegar Was even mentioned in the show as being Dany's older brother. I could be wrong but I've watched the show twice. Without book readers this show would be unable to follow some of the details.
I just read this and posted mine without having read this. I agree. In fact, I don't even recall seeing him. I also didn't read the books so I guess to have thought he was the father of Jon, you must have read the books.
Tell the story of the tower to somebody in season 1 or 2? And its not hard to understand that Robert wanted all Targs dead, so Lyanna saying if robert finds him you know he'll kill him kind of connects it all. No need to read the books
Rhaegar Was even mentioned in the show as being Dany's older brother. I could be wrong but I've watched the show twice. Without book readers this show would be unable to follow some of the details.
Didn't she have a discussion with Sir Barrister Selmy about Rhaegar a couple of seasons back? Selmy told her about how noble her brother was.
But they could have probably done a better job for non-book readers. I think the Tyrion-Dany scene could have easily mentioned Rhaegar and Lyanna as an example of what happens when you choose love/lust over duty/responsibility. Would have fit in nicely after Dany cutting ties with Daario.
I didn't think Jon Snow would be named king of the North until we got closer to the final battle versus the white walkers. Dany mentioned marrying a King in Westeros I am wondering if she will eye Jon Snow until of course they find out that they are siblings.
Jay, assuming you mean Rhaegar being Jon's father Â
I didn't think Jon Snow would be named king of the North until we got closer to the final battle versus the white walkers. Dany mentioned marrying a King in Westeros I am wondering if she will eye Jon Snow until of course they find out that they are siblings.
Either way, the Targaryans are known for their inbreeding so any chance of marrying Jon snow doesn't seem to be hindered by the fact that they are indeed related.
But they could have probably done a better job for non-book readers. I think the Tyrion-Dany scene could have easily mentioned Rhaegar and Lyanna as an example of what happens when you choose love/lust over duty/responsibility. Would have fit in nicely after Dany cutting ties with Daario.
One problem I think. Neither Dany or Tyrion even know Jon Snow is Rhagaer's son.
I didn't think Jon Snow would be named king of the North until we got closer to the final battle versus the white walkers. Dany mentioned marrying a King in Westeros I am wondering if she will eye Jon Snow until of course they find out that they are siblings.
They are NOT siblings. She is his AUNT.
RE: RE: Rhaegar was mentioned a few times in the series Â
But they could have probably done a better job for non-book readers. I think the Tyrion-Dany scene could have easily mentioned Rhaegar and Lyanna as an example of what happens when you choose love/lust over duty/responsibility. Would have fit in nicely after Dany cutting ties with Daario.
One problem I think. Neither Dany or Tyrion even know Jon Snow is Rhagaer's son.
I still walked away from episode 9 feeling a wee bit happier than episode 10. Ramsey's death and Sansa's smirk really elevated the pleasure level that episode 10 was not able to match for me.
RE: RE: RE: Rhaegar was mentioned a few times in the series Â
But they could have probably done a better job for non-book readers. I think the Tyrion-Dany scene could have easily mentioned Rhaegar and Lyanna as an example of what happens when you choose love/lust over duty/responsibility. Would have fit in nicely after Dany cutting ties with Daario.
One problem I think. Neither Dany or Tyrion even know Jon Snow is Rhagaer's son.
That's where Bran comes in...
As far as I know, Bran is the only one who knows the identity of Jon's real dad. How do you see him transferring this knowledge?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Rhaegar was mentioned a few times in the series Â
But they could have probably done a better job for non-book readers. I think the Tyrion-Dany scene could have easily mentioned Rhaegar and Lyanna as an example of what happens when you choose love/lust over duty/responsibility. Would have fit in nicely after Dany cutting ties with Daario.
One problem I think. Neither Dany or Tyrion even know Jon Snow is Rhagaer's son.
That's where Bran comes in...
As far as I know, Bran is the only one who knows the identity of Jon's real dad. How do you see him transferring this knowledge?
I have no idea. Meera will also know. What is the point plot=wise of him learning this information if not to provide it to the people involved?
RE: Jay, assuming you mean Rhaegar being Jon's father Â
Mountains & Vale: ruled by an immature, possibly disturbed only child.
Westerlands: Tywin is out of grandchildren, and the only one of his kids who wants to lead is a woman, who just exploded the capital.
Riverlands: Tullys are dead or in prison. Frey was just murdered and his children seem feckless.
Iron Islands: King was just murdered and there are two contenders for rule.
The Reach: Tyrells were just slaughtered. Olenna isnt spitting out more kids.
Dorne: Ruling family killed/murdered.
Stormlands: The Baratheons appear extinct. Robert, his purported children, his two brothers, his niece.
Nights Watch: Two straight LC's murdered. Currently without an elected LC.
We'll have to see if the show bothers developing the replacement nobility for the Reach and Stormlands. It very much did in the North (Boltons) and only a little bit did for the Riverlands (Freys). I suspect it wont.
Rhaegar Was even mentioned in the show as being Dany's older brother. I could be wrong but I've watched the show twice. Without book readers this show would be unable to follow some of the details.
I just read this and posted mine without having read this. I agree. In fact, I don't even recall seeing him. I also didn't read the books so I guess to have thought he was the father of Jon, you must have read the books.
I agree, following these threads here on BBI is making it a lot easier to follow. In the first TOJ scenes, young Ned Stark did fight with King's Guard at the tower.
and tells Jon Snow of his true lineage then I can see him stepping down as King of the North naming Sansa as the Queen. He would obviously stay by her side and lead the army against the white walkers.
RE: RE: Rhaegar was mentioned a few times in the series Â
But they could have probably done a better job for non-book readers. I think the Tyrion-Dany scene could have easily mentioned Rhaegar and Lyanna as an example of what happens when you choose love/lust over duty/responsibility. Would have fit in nicely after Dany cutting ties with Daario.
One problem I think. Neither Dany or Tyrion even know Jon Snow is Rhagaer's son.
That's not relevant. The point of the story would be that Rhaegar ranaway/kidnapped Lyanna for love/lust and it cost the Targaryen's their kingdom. If he was responsible and dutiful instead the Targaryen's would still be on the Iron Throne. The story would be told as an example as why Dany needs to put her duty above her love/lust for Daario. Jon Snow wouldnt' even be relevant to the conversation.
The idea would be to bring back up the Rhaegar/Lyanna relationship to the viewers, so they later tower of joy scene would have been clearer to non-book readers.
Any reason why Jon doesn't have silver hair? Is the Stark brown hair gene (they make Lyanna have really dark brown hair) the dominant one over the Targaryen silver? Considering all the Targaryen's we know about on the show are silver-haired, it's interesting how Jon has a jet black emo look.
Rhaegar Was even mentioned in the show as being Dany's older brother. I could be wrong but I've watched the show twice. Without book readers this show would be unable to follow some of the details.
I just read this and posted mine without having read this. I agree. In fact, I don't even recall seeing him. I also didn't read the books so I guess to have thought he was the father of Jon, you must have read the books.
I agree, following these threads here on BBI is making it a lot easier to follow. In the first TOJ scenes, young Ned Stark did fight with King's Guard at the tower.
Yes, and he knew his sister was up in that tower and that she screamed. I didn't associate her scream meaning child being born. I guess I should have. After all, Rhagar Must have had a pretty good reason to have his best guard protecting the tower instead of protecting him.
There is a spell on the wall which prevents the dead from passing correct? Is the spell broken once Bran crosses since he was touched by the Night King?
Dani invading Winterfell
Euron laying in wait
Jaime vs Cersi
Sansa-Jon-Littlefinger trio fighting over the north
Arya now a sick assassin
The Hound doing whatever he does
Bran still north of the wall as the Three Eyed Raven
Brienne just rowing somewhere
Anything else?
Jorah is still wondering around somewhere looking for a cure...
Army of the dead
Dorne & Olenna v Cersi.
Melissandre, the Brothers w/o Banners, and the fire god in Westeros now that the leaders of the followers of the 7 are kaput (and the whole religion is detested by Cersi).
Dani invading Winterfell
Euron laying in wait
Jaime vs Cersi
Sansa-Jon-Littlefinger trio fighting over the north
Arya now a sick assassin
The Hound doing whatever he does
Bran still north of the wall as the Three Eyed Raven
Brienne just rowing somewhere
Anything else?
Jorah is still wondering around somewhere looking for a cure...
Army of the dead
Dorne & Olenna v Cersi.
Melissandre, the Brothers w/o Banners, and the fire god in Westeros now that the leaders of the followers of the 7 are kaput (and the whole religion is detested by Cersi).
There is a spell on the wall which prevents the dead from passing correct? Is the spell broken once Bran crosses since he was touched by the Night King?
That is a pretty popular theory. Similar to how the protection of the cave was broken after Bran was touched.
Any reason why Jon doesn't have silver hair? Is the Stark brown hair gene (they make Lyanna have really dark brown hair) the dominant one over the Targaryen silver? Considering all the Targaryen's we know about on the show are silver-haired, it's interesting how Jon has a jet black emo look.
They preserved that look thru inbreeding. So maybe it is a weak gene.
Jamie will be pissed at Cersei, blaming her for their son, Tommen's death. So, how do you see this playing out?
Anyone else think ARYA will be the one to end Cersei's life, not Danny. I believe Arya has Cersei on her list of people to kill. After watching how she killed Frey, I'm thinking she is going down her list. And she has faces to use as disguises.
Rhaegar Was even mentioned in the show as being Dany's older brother. I could be wrong but I've watched the show twice. Without book readers this show would be unable to follow some of the details.
Barristan mentioned Rhaegar as being Dany's brother more than once, in more more than one season. You had the crypt scenes in season 5 between LF and Sansa explaining the situation between Rhaegar and Lyanna. And the scenes in season 1 explaining the situation between Lyanna and Robert. Could they have done better? Maybe I guess. But I think they did a pretty good job preparing you for this moment over the last 5 years to be honest.
Jamie will be pissed at Cersei, blaming her for their son, Tommen's death. So, how do you see this playing out?
Anyone else think ARYA will be the one to end Cersei's life, not Danny. I believe Arya has Cersei on her list of people to kill. After watching how she killed Frey, I'm thinking she is going down her list. And she has faces to use as disguises.
This was my thought last night when she killed Frey. I would be surprised if she isn't the one who kills Cersei.
is the speed of travel by some of these characters. Arya made it all the way back to kill Frey, Theon and his sister made it to Mereen in no time yet Brienne still hasn't returned from her meeting with the blackfish.
is the speed of travel by some of these characters. Arya made it all the way back to kill Frey, Theon and his sister made it to Mereen in no time yet Brienne still hasn't returned from her meeting with the blackfish.
The Braavos timeline was not tied to any rest of plot events after Tyrell and Trant went to the Iron Bank. We shouldnt assume we're seeing scenes in chronological order. Also, Braavos is fairly close to the Twins (Frey castle), especially if the ship skips the Vale and goes north of it. If that's the case it could be as little as a day or two once on horse.
is the speed of travel by some of these characters. Arya made it all the way back to kill Frey, Theon and his sister made it to Mereen in no time yet Brienne still hasn't returned from her meeting with the blackfish.
Just because it happens fast on tv doesn't mean it actually happens fast, they're just not showing us the entire trip like they did when Tyrion went to Mereen.
I don't have an issue with it. Eventually they have to progress things.
RE: RE: I think a bastard can still have some claim Â
Rhaegar Was even mentioned in the show as being Dany's older brother. I could be wrong but I've watched the show twice. Without book readers this show would be unable to follow some of the details.
You didn't watch it very well then. Rhaegar was mentioned quite a few times. He was referred to being thought to be the last dragon which of course Dani says he was not the last. Robert started the rebellion and wanted Dani killed as being family of Rhaegar who kidnapped and raped Ned's sister. Remember Ned being pissed because Robert wanted to kill Dani because she was a Targaryn. Littlefinger wasn't so sure about the kidnapping/rape part and that part is still in speculation. Rhaegar was also shown in the house of the undying or whatever when Dani sees a vision of her brother talking about the prince that was promised. Selmy and Dani talk about the mad kind and Rhaegar. It has been mentioned, but throughout 6 seasons over 6 years people probably forgot.
RE: RE: The only thing that bothers me about this season Â
is the speed of travel by some of these characters. Arya made it all the way back to kill Frey, Theon and his sister made it to Mereen in no time yet Brienne still hasn't returned from her meeting with the blackfish.
Just because it happens fast on tv doesn't mean it actually happens fast, they're just not showing us the entire trip like they did when Tyrion went to Mereen.
I don't have an issue with it. Eventually they have to progress things.
The only issue I had was that Varys was back in Mereen to ride back on the boat? I get that see travel is quicker, but he was in Dorn so why travel across the sea and then just travel right back across.
RE: RE: RE: The only thing that bothers me about this season Â
is the speed of travel by some of these characters. Arya made it all the way back to kill Frey, Theon and his sister made it to Mereen in no time yet Brienne still hasn't returned from her meeting with the blackfish.
Just because it happens fast on tv doesn't mean it actually happens fast, they're just not showing us the entire trip like they did when Tyrion went to Mereen.
I don't have an issue with it. Eventually they have to progress things.
The only issue I had was that Varys was back in Mereen to ride back on the boat? I get that see travel is quicker, but he was in Dorn so why travel across the sea and then just travel right back across.
Isn't Dorne on the same side as Mereen?
RE: RE: RE: RE: The only thing that bothers me about this season Â
is the speed of travel by some of these characters. Arya made it all the way back to kill Frey, Theon and his sister made it to Mereen in no time yet Brienne still hasn't returned from her meeting with the blackfish.
Just because it happens fast on tv doesn't mean it actually happens fast, they're just not showing us the entire trip like they did when Tyrion went to Mereen.
I don't have an issue with it. Eventually they have to progress things.
The only issue I had was that Varys was back in Mereen to ride back on the boat? I get that see travel is quicker, but he was in Dorn so why travel across the sea and then just travel right back across.
Isn't Dorne on the same side as Mereen?
nevermind
RE: RE: RE: RE: The only thing that bothers me about this season Â
is the speed of travel by some of these characters. Arya made it all the way back to kill Frey, Theon and his sister made it to Mereen in no time yet Brienne still hasn't returned from her meeting with the blackfish.
Just because it happens fast on tv doesn't mean it actually happens fast, they're just not showing us the entire trip like they did when Tyrion went to Mereen.
I don't have an issue with it. Eventually they have to progress things.
The only issue I had was that Varys was back in Mereen to ride back on the boat? I get that see travel is quicker, but he was in Dorn so why travel across the sea and then just travel right back across.
Isn't Dorne on the same side as Mereen?
Nah it's in Westeros. It's the furthest south of any of the 7 kingdoms. To be fair it's fair but not THAT far from Mareen by boat
up the narrow see to KL. How they would have known to scoop him up, I have no idea but Varys has always been able to communicate all over the kingdoms just like Littlefinger so him getting word to tyrion isn't totally unrealistic?
RE: RE: RE: The only thing that bothers me about this season Â
is the speed of travel by some of these characters. Arya made it all the way back to kill Frey, Theon and his sister made it to Mereen in no time yet Brienne still hasn't returned from her meeting with the blackfish.
Just because it happens fast on tv doesn't mean it actually happens fast, they're just not showing us the entire trip like they did when Tyrion went to Mereen.
I don't have an issue with it. Eventually they have to progress things.
The only issue I had was that Varys was back in Mereen to ride back on the boat? I get that see travel is quicker, but he was in Dorn so why travel across the sea and then just travel right back across.
If you watch the boat scene, there were boats from Dorne as well as Highgarden in that armada. So he probably was on the Dorne/Highgarden boats that went to Mereen to show thier support for Dany. There was definitely some time that took place been Varys in Dorne and the final armada scene.
of Dorne and Highgarden prior to Dany heading to Westeros. He had to go back to let her know he was successful.
Below is an interactive map of the 7 kingdoms to give you an idea how far Meereen is from Dorne. It's south of the Dothraki sea, just south of womb of the world. link - ( New Window )
RE: It could make sense for Dany's fleet to scoop up Varys on the way Â
up the narrow see to KL. How they would have known to scoop him up, I have no idea but Varys has always been able to communicate all over the kingdoms just like Littlefinger so him getting word to tyrion isn't totally unrealistic?
I took that as the fleet had already been to Dorne as well...
Euron will go offer his services to yet another husband-less queen, Cersei, since his nephew/nieces are with her enemy, Daenerys
Maybe. Frankly, the size of Dany's army plus the dragons, when factoring just how leaderless and adrift the Westerosi houses are, this coming invasion should be a blood bath.
So something like Euron attacking them at sea, Dany blowing up all of KL (very unlikely) or something else needs to happen, or else this gets boring in a hurry. There isnt the leadership in Westeros to repell a dragon/dothraki/unsullied invasion, let alone one supported by Dorne and the Reach.
of Dorne and Highgarden prior to Dany heading to Westeros. He had to go back to let her know he was successful.
Below is an interactive map of the 7 kingdoms to give you an idea how far Meereen is from Dorne. It's south of the Dothraki sea, just south of womb of the world. link - ( New Window )
Which is why the much more plausible explanation is that varys sent word to mereen or the fleet somehow, and the fleet caught up with him in Dorne on the way up the narrow sea to KL.
Euron catching up with the fleet at sea sounds like a possible twist but even then, I can't see how his just constructed fleet can even compare with dany/dorne/tyrell + dragons
did you guys miss the scene where Varys was saying Â
goodbye to Tyrion and said he'd know if his mission didn't work if he doesn't return?
I remember it clearly. I also remember Littlefinger and Varys being 8 moves ahead of everyone else in the 7 kingdoms because they have extensive informant operations.
is the speed of travel by some of these characters. Arya made it all the way back to kill Frey, Theon and his sister made it to Mereen in no time yet Brienne still hasn't returned from her meeting with the blackfish.
Just because it happens fast on tv doesn't mean it actually happens fast, they're just not showing us the entire trip like they did when Tyrion went to Mereen.
I don't have an issue with it. Eventually they have to progress things.
The only issue I had was that Varys was back in Mereen to ride back on the boat? I get that see travel is quicker, but he was in Dorn so why travel across the sea and then just travel right back across.
If you watch the boat scene, there were boats from Dorne as well as Highgarden in that armada. So he probably was on the Dorne/Highgarden boats that went to Mereen to show thier support for Dany. There was definitely some time that took place been Varys in Dorne and the final armada scene.
Oh didn't see the boats from Dorne or Highgarden... Interesting.
About Varys being on that boat at the end was the fact that they robbed us of a potentially great introduction scene where Danaerys is finally face to face with the spider
Rhagar I thought they were referencing the Mad King. Do they specifically describe Rhagar as Dany's brother? Why would Rhagar be the last dragon when Dany had another brother as well?
Is Meera's father still alive? He hasn't really been adressed much besides the first TOJ flashback where he saves Ned. He would absolutely know the secret about Jon.
If he is alive, he may he the one to confirm it instead of Bran.
Rhagar I thought they were referencing the Mad King. Do they specifically describe Rhagar as Dany's brother? Why would Rhagar be the last dragon when Dany had another brother as well?
It's funny you should say this. I was talking with my neighbor this morning and even he believed Rheagar was the Mad King. I confronted him and then he pulled out his cell phone to confirm what I said. So, you are not alone not knowing Rheagar was Daeny's brother.m
Do the Lannisters really have a chance against this conglomerate fleet crossing the sea?
If no, then where will the drama come from?
On appearances, the Lannisters should get absolutely steamrolled. They have no defense against what appears to be coming and no allies. Getting Dorne and the Tyrells on their side was underplayed but very, very important.
However, two things to remember; Cersei is officially murderously insane, and she may have more wildfire stored around the city.
Perhaps facing destruction, she would do what the Mad King wanted to as well and scorch the earth even while facing an obvious defeat.
Do the Lannisters really have a chance against this conglomerate fleet crossing the sea?
If no, then where will the drama come from?
On appearances, the Lannisters should get absolutely steamrolled. They have no defense against what appears to be coming and no allies. Getting Dorne and the Tyrells on their side was underplayed but very, very important.
However, two things to remember; Cersei is officially murderously insane, and she may have more wildfire stored around the city.
Perhaps facing destruction, she would do what the Mad King wanted to as well and scorch the earth even while facing an obvious defeat.
I think her destroying King's Landing while committing suicide is totally possible; would jibe with Dany's visions of a destroyed throne room in the House of the Undying way back when.
After she killed the Frey's, who else is left alive from her list?
Cersie, The Mountain, Illian Pain?? (Is he still around?), The Red Priestess. I think that's it, although her list was much smaller when she recited it this season.
Before Cersi and Jamie convinced the Tyrell's to bring their army to Kings Landing, Tommen whispered a secrecy that the High Sparrow had told him.
Since that point, more then usual, Cersi has been on this highly destructive path. What did Tommen tell her? Will we ever find out?
No one knows, but IMO the best guess is that Olenna had Joffrey killed. I guess if she meets Tyrion it could come up. Or in another overwrought chat with the Kingslayer.
Maybe there will be a Return of the King-like 10 endings, and we'll see Arya retired to some island somewhere, laughing with Gendry in slow mo.
Between Gendry and Brienne/Pod it clear that no one should ever row a boat in Westeros, or they will never be seen again.
I actually hope that the very last scene of the series is him rowing up to shore in King's Landing sporting giant Popeye-esque guns from years of rowing and wondering what he missed.
After she killed the Frey's, who else is left alive from her list?
Cersie, The Mountain, Illian Pain?? (Is he still around?), The Red Priestess. I think that's it, although her list was much smaller when she recited it this season.
Arya got him in the brothel. Poked his eyes out and cut his throat.
After she killed the Frey's, who else is left alive from her list?
Cersie, The Mountain, Illian Pain?? (Is he still around?), The Red Priestess. I think that's it, although her list was much smaller when she recited it this season.
Arya got him in the brothel. Poked his eyes out and cut his throat.
After she killed the Frey's, who else is left alive from her list?
Cersie, The Mountain, Illian Pain?? (Is he still around?), The Red Priestess. I think that's it, although her list was much smaller when she recited it this season.
Arya got him in the brothel. Poked his eyes out and cut his throat.
Illian Pain, that is.
Woops. That was Ser Meryn Trant. Pain is still around i think.
After she killed the Frey's, who else is left alive from her list?
Cersie, The Mountain, Illian Pain?? (Is he still around?), The Red Priestess. I think that's it, although her list was much smaller when she recited it this season.
Arya got him in the brothel. Poked his eyes out and cut his throat.
Illian Pain, that is.
Woops. That was Ser Meryn Trant. Pain is still around i think.
I believe the actor that played Ilyn Payne sadly got cancer. Payne's character was suppose to have more rolls which they moved to other characters since he was battling cancer. The good news is he has beaten cancer after almost dying. Whether we ever see him on GoT though is not known.
After she killed the Frey's, who else is left alive from her list?
Cersie, The Mountain, Illian Pain?? (Is he still around?), The Red Priestess. I think that's it, although her list was much smaller when she recited it this season.
Arya got him in the brothel. Poked his eyes out and cut his throat.
Illian Pain, that is.
Woops. That was Ser Meryn Trant. Pain is still around i think.
I believe the actor that played Ilyn Payne sadly got cancer. Payne's character was suppose to have more rolls which they moved to other characters since he was battling cancer. The good news is he has beaten cancer after almost dying. Whether we ever see him on GoT though is not known.
I hope that is not considered a spoiler at all. It isn't about the show, but sadly the actor himself. I guess I did mention that he had other minor roles that were moved to other characters so I hope that doesn't cause any grief.
Up until this morning I thought Rhaegar was the Mad King.
Last week, it took me a half hour to convince two fairly devoted fans of the show that Rhaegar was the Mad King's son. When I mentioned Aerys, they just stared blankly.
Admittedly, we book readers take a lot for granted. The back-story re. Robert's Rebellion and the Tourney at Harrenhal is ridiculously complicated. To get it at all, non-readers needed to pay very close attention to a few key scenes: two conversations between Baelish and Sansa; one between Jaime and Brienne; one where Jorah and Barristan shared their memories of Rhaegar with Daenerys; and several where Tywin, Tyrion and others tossed out critical information in what might have seemed like throw-away lines.
As we've seen, the rules of ascension can go out the window. Robert took the throne by force. Cersei just took the throne by force. Jon just became King in the North as a bastard. Hell, in Dorne, Ellaria Sand appears be ruling and she has no bloodline to that seat, nor do I believe was she married to Oberyn.
Jon's bastard status as a Targ shouldn't be an issue as long as he has the right backing. However, it's possible Jon may not be a Targ bastard anyway. Historically Targs, in addition to being incestuous were also polygamous. See Aegon the conqueror as an example. He was married to his two sisters. Targs obeyed the rules of the Seven faith in recent generations, but people tend observe the rules that suit them at the time in this world. So it's possible if Rhaegar didn't take Lyanna by force, that he took her as a second wife making Jon legit, giving him the best legal claim to the throne. Probably a bit of a stretch but you never know.
Ultimately, I doubt the legal claim will matter. I doubt Dany would show up in Westeros and give up her lifelong quest because she found out she had a nephew with a better claim. I suspect Jon's Targ blood will be mainly relevant to the war of the Living vs. the Dead but who knows.
For those nerdy enough and with the free time, search online for videos produced by HBO to supplement the DVD sets. They offer a detailed history of the world relevant by season. Information that gets a few lines on the show is expanded upon in the supplemental material making things quite a bit easier to follow.
Up until this morning I thought Rhaegar was the Mad King.
Last week, it took me a half hour to convince two fairly devoted fans of the show that Rhaegar was the Mad King's son. When I mentioned Aerys, they just stared blankly.
Admittedly, we book readers take a lot for granted. The back-story re. Robert's Rebellion and the Tourney at Harrenhal is ridiculously complicated. To get it at all, non-readers needed to pay very close attention to a few key scenes: two conversations between Baelish and Sansa; one between Jaime and Brienne; one where Jorah and Barristan shared their memories of Rhaegar with Daenerys; and several where Tywin, Tyrion and others tossed out critical information in what might have seemed like throw-away lines.
You are correct. Some of those conversations can be hard for a non book reader to process with no background and with GOT having one million characters to try to sort out with weird names. It wasn't until I visited Wikia that I began to process and sort out most of the characters (not all).
Any reason why Jon doesn't have silver hair? Is the Stark brown hair gene (they make Lyanna have really dark brown hair) the dominant one over the Targaryen silver? Considering all the Targaryen's we know about on the show are silver-haired, it's interesting how Jon has a jet black emo look.
They preserved that look thru inbreeding. So maybe it is a weak gene.
I remember in season one that Ned noticed how all of the Baratheons had black hair and I always wondered if Jon wasn't Robert's son by Lianna. Wouldn't it be possible that she was carrying Robert's baby when she was raped? Just a thought.
Power being consolidated, alliances lining up... Â
The squeeze will be on the Lannisters, from north and south.
Too bad Cersei used up all that green stuff. They're gonna need it.
There is more Wildfire the green stuff all over kings landing as Aerys the mad king wanted to burn them all.
But Tyrion knows it and will tell Dani the Unburnt about it.
Bran and Howland Reed. Howland hasn't shown up yet... Something tells me he will next season. With Dany now willing to marry to help her secure the thrown, not crazy to see her and Jon joining together. Aunt and nephew doesn't matter to Targ's. In the books, Dany thought she would mary Varserees before he had her married off to the Dorthraki
Finds out Jon Snow is King of the North? I bet she laughs again. She won't head North but South to Kings Landing.
Cersi Lanister, Ilen Paine The Mountain.
Bran and Howland Reed. Howland hasn't shown up yet... Something tells me he will next season. With Dany now willing to marry to help her secure the thrown, not crazy to see her and Jon joining together. Aunt and nephew doesn't matter to Targ's. In the books, Dany thought she would mary Varserees before he had her married off to the Dorthraki
Finds out Jon Snow is King of the North? I bet she laughs again. She won't head North but South to Kings Landing.
Cersi Lanister, Ilen Paine The Mountain.
Arya's slicing of Frey last night was my favorite moment. I'm looking forward to more favorite moments, courtesy of Arya Stark.
It's unknown what it means for the show, but clearly there's something very significant about the Citadel library. Sam (and Gilly) may be playing an important role as things progress. How did everyone miss this? - ( New Window )
It's unknown what it means for the show, but clearly there's something very significant about the Citadel library. Sam (and Gilly) may be playing an important role as things progress. How did everyone miss this?
I wouldn't say everyone missed it. I think all the fan sites noted the connection to the opening credits. Whether it's significant, or just a cute little Easter Egg, is anyone's guess at this point.
"Your brother (the skinny guy from the show) used to like to sing on the streets"......then a couple of sentences later "Rheagar (the mad King) would pick a place and he (the skiing guy) would sing." Obviously that wasn't correct but as a non book reader it can be very confusing.
The biggest villain in this show up until this point. Her incest is what's led to this, Kingslayers bitch ass obviously playing a role. I really thought Margaery had a chance, I guess having Olennas awesome character be safe should've been a clue.
Cersei is the Mad Queen. Jon Snow is the undead White Wolf. Dany is the etc. Varys and Littlefinger are playing the game at another level. Sansa is a certified. Arya is the killer. Winter is here and the Night King is coming.The episodes post-Hodor were meh, otherwise this was the best TV I've seen.
RE: Question
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/27/2016 1:56 pm : link : reply
On appearances, the Lannisters should get absolutely steamrolled. They have no defense against what appears to be coming and no allies. Getting Dorne and the Tyrells on their side was underplayed but very, very important.
However, two things to remember; Cersei is officially murderously insane, and she may have more wildfire stored around the city.
Perhaps facing destruction, she would do what the Mad King wanted to as well and scorch the earth even while facing an obvious defeat.
This was the reason, Jamie, became the Kingslayer.....will it make him also the Queenslayer?
it has to be Arya or Jaime. I'd lean towards Jaime, it would be better for the story. A murder-suicide sounds like the way, "We came in together, we go out together" type of BS.
will be pretty straight forward form here on out, so that prediction makes sense. But what if the prophecy is wrong? Do the show runners have the balls to do it or would that waste time trying to explain or debunk? I'm wondering if Martin ends up going that route as well.
RE: Seems pretty clear that the prophesy we saw S5E1 will come true Â
It’s two more seasons we’re talking about. From pretty close to the beginning, we talked about doing this in 70-75 hours, and that’s what we’ll end up with. Call it 73 for now.
I'm not convinced Jaime won't support Cersei... reluctantly. Â
SOMEONE has to support her for her to be anything more than a speedbump on Daenerys' jaunt through Westeros. The only people that make any sense would be Jaime and/or Littlefinger. Even Littlefinger supporting her is a maaaaassive stretch.
I don't know, maybe I'm making more of it than I should, but it sure does look like Cersei is megafucked at the moment.
They really boxed in Cersi and left her no other choice. Her first option was to use the Mountain as her champion in a trial by combat and they took that away from her. They sent away Jamie, who was her one voice of reason. They cut off Tommen from speaking to his mother anymore. She really had no choice but to use the wildfire, which was her only trump card left. One thing I have to give that episode (which is by far by favorite of the entire series), the music through out the entire episode was amazing and really set the tone perfectly.
Going back to Cersi, never thought she'd take the thrown, never even thought of that. I just thought she was going mad and in survival mode. She got revenge against all her foes and is making the Shame Nun tortured by the Mountain for everything she did to Cersi while help captive. I also like that Cersi forced herself in power and now with Ramsey dead, I like that she's the primary villain in the series that everyone will love to hate. Also now that Cersi is queen, that should open up a political marriage for her to take on a husband that can strengthen her position. Euron Greyjoy is building a 1000 ship fleet and originally wanted Dany's hand in marriage but since his nephew and niece Theon and Yara, got to Dany first. Then this would leave a perfect opening to offer his 1000 ship fleet to Cersi in her hand in marriage. That should make for an amazing sea battle next season with Euron's ship's vs Dany's ships. I'm also interested to see Jamie's reaction to all this after seeing the city burning and hearing his son died. Jamie always loved Cersi more then she did for him, so hopefully this will be a wake up call for Jamie as I really do want to root for him. Will Jamie be forced once again to do what is right by the realm and be a Queenslayer, although I think that right to kill Cersi is reserved for Arya.
Speaking of Arya, great to see her back in Westeros and crossing off the names on her list. She now has the skills to be an elite assassin and will be interested to see what she'll be up too. She still has 3 names on her list with with Cersi, Mountain and Ilyn Payne (the guy who chopped off Ned's head). Also the Hound but since she left him for dead once, not sure if she'll take a second stab at him.
Interesting to see Sam finally reach the Citadel. It's massive library of knowledge that has text dating back 8000 years. I think Sam will play a big role in the final two seasons, as there has to be something written about how to deal with the white walkers. I also think Jorah Mormont is heading to the Citadel, since Dany gave him the order to find a cure and if there is knowledge of a cure for greyscale, it is sure to be at the library. Plus Sam's father, who Sam stole the Valerian steel sword from, knows he's at the Citadel and I feel will head there to kill Sam and take back his sword. Maybe Jorah will rescue Sam from his father and in return Sam will help Jorah find a cure for greyscale from the texts in the Citadel's library.
Tyrion for most of his life, I feel, always wanted to be accepted. Either from his family or anyone in his company that he paid for or bought off to be his friend. Then when he became Hand of the King, he saved Kings Landing on more then one occasion but never got the due credit for any of this actions. So that scene with Dany, was really great to see, as he's finally gotten the acceptance and credit he always wanted when Dany made him the Hand of the Queen. Very nice scene also when Varys secured Dany's Westeros support from both Dorne and Highgarden.
Finally, what a great scene to wrap up the Jon Snow arch for this season when he was declared the King of the North. The young actress who played Lyanna Mormont has really done an great job. She's stolen almost every scene she's been in and gave an amazing speech that shamed the other Northern Lords for their actions and to finally declare Jon the King of the North. That one move also under cut Littlefinger's plans to marry Sansa and unite the North in his quest to take the Iron Throne. I'm glad Sansa isn't falling for any of his lies anymore and will be interesting to see what Littlefinger's next strategy and plans will be.
Really looking forward to next season!
RE: Just officially announced there are 13-15 episodes left Â
It’s two more seasons we’re talking about. From pretty close to the beginning, we talked about doing this in 70-75 hours, and that’s what we’ll end up with. Call it 73 for now.
Best news so far. The rumors of 7 or 8 final episodes just didn't give me any confidence at all in doing a proper send off. Too much left to do.
RE: I'm not convinced Jaime won't support Cersei... reluctantly. Â
SOMEONE has to support her for her to be anything more than a speedbump on Daenerys' jaunt through Westeros. The only people that make any sense would be Jaime and/or Littlefinger. Even Littlefinger supporting her is a maaaaassive stretch.
I don't know, maybe I'm making more of it than I should, but it sure does look like Cersei is megafucked at the moment.
Tywin did say she's not as smart as she thinks she is. I would be surprised if the people of King's Landing aren't against her too after she killed a bunch of innocent people. I think Euron joining/marrying her is almost a given.
I think Littlefinger's plan is to continue to concern-troll Sansa, get Jon out of the picture,let Dany et al and Cersei destroy each other, then swoop in late. I think the Sansa-Jon tension was one of the best storylines to come out of the finale.
Sansa takes the North away from Jon with help of Baelish proving Jon is Targ. Howland Reed resurfaces. Jon leaves Sansa on his own.heads South with his small army of Wildings.
Cersi and Euron unit Againist mother of dragons. Including the hell horn which controls dragons.
Sam learns how to defeat the White Walkers Army.
Wall falls after Bran goes though it removing the magic spells.
Arya continues her list even seeing Jon at one point while wearing another's face.
Dani defeats Cersi with Jons help Jon kills Jamie,and Tyrion kills Cersi.
in order to kill time till next season? I love the show, but I think reading the books would kind of be useless at this point....thoughts?
I think it's a completely different experience, so no, it's not too late by any means. You might love the books or hate them. Enjoying the show might not be a good predictor. The books feature a lot of sour beer, hard cheese, bloody flux and aimless wandering. Not to mention a ton of history and folklore that you may not care about.
to provide exposition for why magical things are happening. E.g. like the uncle just explained wall magic. Sam will likely serve in that role during a big battle or three.
in order to kill time till next season? I love the show, but I think reading the books would kind of be useless at this point....thoughts?
I think the books offer a completely different experience. The show does as good a job as you can possibly do, but it still doesn't compare, IMO. Not to mention both the showrunners and Martin confirming the story's ending and how they get there will be different, it makes it a must read for me.
I have an interesting theory / suspicion that I thought I'd let the people weigh in on - Brexit style.
I think Varys was in on the Sept of Baelor bombing in that he either knew it was coming or even possibly helped move it along stealthily.
The timing of his departure for Dorne to meet with Elaria - and Olenna - is highly suspect. He leaves Meereen to build a Westerosi coalition to support Daenerys and just happens to arrive in Dorne when Olenna is vulnerable and desperate for revenge against the Lannisters.
The bombing was done with help from Qyburn's little birds. I believe they're actually still Varys's little birds. I believe they tipped Varys off regarding Qyburn and Cersei's plans and decided to use it to his advantage. So he sat on the info, allowed it to happen and made sure he was in Dorne at the same time as a distraught and vengeful Olenna to recruit her to his cause. This is totally a Varys move.
Further, I think Tyrion may figure this out and kill Varys.
is the ultimate wildcard. It used to be him and Littlefinger but the showrunners neutered Littlefinger. I can see that theory being accurate, something is up Varys' sleeve and someone will absolutely have a final backstab moment to shake up the landscape, especially now that there going to be atleast another full season.
I've been suspicious of Varys ever since Tyrion said Â
he was the only one he could trust (or something close to that). Perhaps I'm jaded by early seasons when the general rule of Varys was "you can't trust him", but that has stuck with me over the last few episodes. Wouldn't surprise me at all if Varys does burn Tyrion/Dany somehow.
I think Varys was in on the Sept of Baelor bombing in that he either knew it was coming or even possibly helped move it along stealthily.
The timing of his departure for Dorne to meet with Elaria - and Olenna - is highly suspect. He leaves Meereen to build a Westerosi coalition to support Daenerys and just happens to arrive in Dorne when Olenna is vulnerable and desperate for revenge against the Lannisters.
The bombing was done with help from Qyburn's little birds. I believe they're actually still Varys's little birds. I believe they tipped Varys off regarding Qyburn and Cersei's plans and decided to use it to his advantage. So he sat on the info, allowed it to happen and made sure he was in Dorne at the same time as a distraught and vengeful Olenna to recruit her to his cause. This is totally a Varys move.
Further, I think Tyrion may figure this out and kill Varys.
You have a lot of clever stuff there - maybe too clever for the show. The main practical objection is that blowing up the Sept was Cersei's Plan B. Plan A was Trial by Combat featuring Frankenmountain. For your theory to hold, Varys would have needed a pretty strong suspicion that Plan A would fall through. (Not impossible for a Spider of Varys's skills, but still...) By the time Cersei shifted to Plan B, she only had a couple of days to set it in motion.
So, who else is shipping Euron and Cersei? Get it? SHIPping?
I think it's a stretch to say Varys would let the Sept bombing go just to further his own agenda. (It's not a stretch to say he knew in advance, but probably wasn't in a position to do anything about it, like Ned Stark's incarceration.) Besides, if Olenna Tyrell was somehow able to get her grandchildren out of King's Landing, she wouldn't need much convincing to join forces with the anti-Lannister group. Varys has two goals, stability of the kingdom and staying alive. He hasn't been shown to be as unscrupulous as Littlefinger.
RE: Just officially announced there are 13-15 episodes left Â
It’s two more seasons we’re talking about. From pretty close to the beginning, we talked about doing this in 70-75 hours, and that’s what we’ll end up with. Call it 73 for now.
I wonder how they will split up both seasons. I hope season 7 is at least eight episodes long and season 8 has the remaining five, with the finale being a 2 hour event.
You have a lot of clever stuff there - maybe too clever for the show. The main practical objection is that blowing up the Sept was Cersei's Plan B. Plan A was Trial by Combat featuring Frankenmountain. For your theory to hold, Varys would have needed a pretty strong suspicion that Plan A would fall through. (Not impossible for a Spider of Varys's skills, but still...) By the time Cersei shifted to Plan B, she only had a couple of days to set it in motion.
So, who else is shipping Euron and Cersei? Get it? SHIPping?
I'm here all week, folks. Get home safe.
I think Cersei knew the Sparrow would pull the trial by combat option out from under her. That's why she looked into the wildfire in the first place.
that Varys is directly over Dany's shoulder during the very final scene imo. I have no idea if he has something up his sleeve, but his character had a big couple of episodes to end this season.
Under the Targaryens and Baratheons, the Citadel and the Faith have been progressively co-opted and corrupted by the Crown. (I'll leave it at that to steer clear of book spoilers.) Pycelle embodied that corruption. If somebody like Aemon were Grand Maester, maybe the Citadel would have done something useful the past six years as Westeros was ravaged by war and an even bigger menace rose in the North.
Then again, compared to Qyburn, Pycelle was a paragon of moral rectitude - except that Qyburn has a much stronger work ethic.
Cersei gets a fleet for the Second Battle of The Blackwater.
Euron gets to sit the Iron Throne for about twenty minutes, until he either:
a) Gets incinerated by dragonfire;
or (much less likely)
b) Vanquishes Cersei's enemies, whereupon she poisons him.
RE: RE: Not sure what Euron or Cersei would want from each other. Â
Cersei gets a fleet for the Second Battle of The Blackwater.
Euron gets to sit the Iron Throne for about twenty minutes, until he either:
a) Gets incinerated by dragonfire;
or (much less likely)
b) Vanquishes Cersei's enemies, whereupon she poisons him.
He wants the Dragons. Cersei has nothing to offer him, except the throne, but even that he could probably take without her help.
Conversely, she doesn't need his fleet to guard the Blackwater, there's aleady a royal fleet. And she is not taking a new husband.
Cersei and Euron vs Daenerys, Dorne, and the old Iron Fleet?
While
Stark vs Littlefinger with the Whitewalkers playing spoilers?
Pretty much, except add the Reach to Team Dany. Cersei may have smoked House Tyrell and the Faith Militant in the West Regional, but the Highgarden army is largely intact. As if the East Region Champs weren't imposing enough already, Dragongirl just added thousands of Tyrell soldiers, without the dead weight of that buffoon Mace.
And of course, Euron + Cersei is just a guess at this point.
Having a work debate but now in the story-line, is Jon a Stark, since he was declared the King of the North. Or is he still considered a Snow?
Several co-workers are saying once all the Lords in the North declared Jon as their King, then Jon automatically became officially recognized as a Stark and is not a Snow anymore.
Personally, I still think he is a Snow and only the King (Queen) regent at Kings Landing can officially declare Jon to be a legitimate Stark or not.
I hope the reveal most of us expect occurs tonight, ending the episode with a Bran vision is what I hope they do.
This one feels like a big game. Really excited.
Enjoy!
I'd imagine their relationship is going to be real different next season.
I do too. Didn't think it could be done but they did it. Holy shit. That was amazing.
Lost)
Lost)
Rhaegar Targaryen...
Lyanna Mormont rules.
I love the Sansa-Jon trust issues because of that piece of junk Littlefinger. I want Baelish dead, but I know that he and Varys are 2 of the most likely people to be standing when this thing is all over.
Tommen killed himself and Cersei didn't even give a fuck.
RIP Margaery....
It was WAY better and that's no slight on Battle of the Bastards. This ep was just beginning to end great.
EW had a funny line... Who's going to feed Ser Pounce now?
Ned made a promise. Ned is an honorable man. Too honorable.
That makes him rightful heir to the iron throne when the Targerians retake the throne right?
Not to get too deep about imaginary people but Ned wood not allow his sister to be disgraced. Having a eastward son was a shame for honorable Ned. He sucked it up for his sister to protect Snow.
I can't see Kings Landing dragging out over a whole season. Daenarys is going to crush Cersei and Kings Landing. 1000 ships, 3 dragons, Dorne, the Tyrells, and most likely an eventual alliance with Jon. Cersei doesn't stand a chance.
I THINK...that she was kidnapped, raped, impregnated by Rhaegar Tagareyan, and died in child birth.
And why is Edmure back in captivity?
What is left?
Dani invading Winterfell
Euron laying in wait
Jaime vs Cersi
Sansa-Jon-Littlefinger trio fighting over the north
Arya now a sick assassin
The Hound doing whatever he does
Bran still north of the wall as the Three Eyed Raven
Brienne just rowing somewhere
Anything else?
What is left?
Dani invading Winterfell
Euron laying in wait
Jaime vs Cersi
Sansa-Jon-Littlefinger trio fighting over the north
Arya now a sick assassin
The Hound doing whatever he does
Bran still north of the wall as the Three Eyed Raven
Brienne just rowing somewhere
Anything else?
Why would dani invade winterfel? You mean kings landing?
Quote:
combined most of the storylines now, right?
What is left?
Dani invading Winterfell
Euron laying in wait
Jaime vs Cersi
Sansa-Jon-Littlefinger trio fighting over the north
Arya now a sick assassin
The Hound doing whatever he does
Bran still north of the wall as the Three Eyed Raven
Brienne just rowing somewhere
Anything else?
Why would dani invade winterfel? You mean kings landing?
Yup, sorry.
What is left?
Dani invading Winterfell
Euron laying in wait
Jaime vs Cersi
Sansa-Jon-Littlefinger trio fighting over the north
Arya now a sick assassin
The Hound doing whatever he does
Bran still north of the wall as the Three Eyed Raven
Brienne just rowing somewhere
Anything else?
Jorah is still wondering around somewhere looking for a cure...
Jon would of been killed off if, Robert would of known that he was Rhaegar's son. Jon would of had a legit claim to the throne, and Robert was not going to have that.
This is why Ned claimed Jon as his own. No one would question his word as the lord of Winterfell.
Quote:
Has not read the books, and follows the show closely, this Tower of Joy scene has not been explained well. So, was she Murdered by this guy or was she bleeding from child birth? Was she kidnapped and raped or did she elope and have a relationship that Robert didn't know about? Was the whole thing a lie to make Robert not hate the Starks? Was it Roberts baby or were they in this little castle for a year while she was raped and carried the baby to term? I know to people who read the books these answers are obvious but to real non book readers they aren't.
I THINK...that she was kidnapped, raped, impregnated by Rhaegar Tagareyan, and died in child birth.
No. Watch this scene: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfnl9owFc84
Littlefinger doesn't buy the kidnapping
Whoops - ( New Window )
I didn't get that from that scene at all?
Yes but I think if Bran crosses they can. Bran was touched by the night king and like the cave he was able to enter once Bran was there.
The real quote. lol
Bleeding from child birth.
She ran away with Rhaegar willingly. Rhaegar loved Lyanna but was married to Elia Martell.
Lyanna had Ned say the kid was his bastard so that Robert and the Lannisters didn't kill her kid like they did to Elia and Rhaegar's children.
It was not Robert's baby.
Quote:
.
That makes him rightful heir to the iron throne when the Targerians retake the throne right?
He was already the rightful heir as he was son of the heir, grandson of the mad king.
BBI did very well in the predictions
One interesting thing to note about that was the North just tossing out Jon's bastard status and naming him King of the North. Perhaps the rest of Westeros does the same when finding out that Rhaegar was his father regardless of whether he actually married Lyanna before her death or not.
Next season should be good with the condensed storylines now.
Jon fuckin Snow. Lady Mormont stole the scene again.
Littlefinger smirking at Sansa and Varys lurking behind Dany in the final scene. Those 2 play the game better than anyone else.
There were a couple of just ok episodes in this one, but the highs from this season were probably better than any other IMO. Just an great season from a great show. Can't wait to see how this thing ends.
I just read this and posted mine without having read this. I agree. In fact, I don't even recall seeing him. I also didn't read the books so I guess to have thought he was the father of Jon, you must have read the books.
Didn't she have a discussion with Sir Barrister Selmy about Rhaegar a couple of seasons back? Selmy told her about how noble her brother was.
Either way, the Targaryans are known for their inbreeding so any chance of marrying Jon snow doesn't seem to be hindered by the fact that they are indeed related.
But shes open to a political marriage
One problem I think. Neither Dany or Tyrion even know Jon Snow is Rhagaer's son.
They are NOT siblings. She is his AUNT.
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But they could have probably done a better job for non-book readers. I think the Tyrion-Dany scene could have easily mentioned Rhaegar and Lyanna as an example of what happens when you choose love/lust over duty/responsibility. Would have fit in nicely after Dany cutting ties with Daario.
One problem I think. Neither Dany or Tyrion even know Jon Snow is Rhagaer's son.
That's where Bran comes in...
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In comment 13010527 Scyber said:
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But they could have probably done a better job for non-book readers. I think the Tyrion-Dany scene could have easily mentioned Rhaegar and Lyanna as an example of what happens when you choose love/lust over duty/responsibility. Would have fit in nicely after Dany cutting ties with Daario.
One problem I think. Neither Dany or Tyrion even know Jon Snow is Rhagaer's son.
That's where Bran comes in...
As far as I know, Bran is the only one who knows the identity of Jon's real dad. How do you see him transferring this knowledge?
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In comment 13010619 5BowlsSoon said:
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In comment 13010527 Scyber said:
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But they could have probably done a better job for non-book readers. I think the Tyrion-Dany scene could have easily mentioned Rhaegar and Lyanna as an example of what happens when you choose love/lust over duty/responsibility. Would have fit in nicely after Dany cutting ties with Daario.
One problem I think. Neither Dany or Tyrion even know Jon Snow is Rhagaer's son.
That's where Bran comes in...
As far as I know, Bran is the only one who knows the identity of Jon's real dad. How do you see him transferring this knowledge?
I have no idea. Meera will also know. What is the point plot=wise of him learning this information if not to provide it to the people involved?
Yes you are right.
North: A bastard is now King
Mountains & Vale: ruled by an immature, possibly disturbed only child.
Westerlands: Tywin is out of grandchildren, and the only one of his kids who wants to lead is a woman, who just exploded the capital.
Riverlands: Tullys are dead or in prison. Frey was just murdered and his children seem feckless.
Iron Islands: King was just murdered and there are two contenders for rule.
The Reach: Tyrells were just slaughtered. Olenna isnt spitting out more kids.
Dorne: Ruling family killed/murdered.
Stormlands: The Baratheons appear extinct. Robert, his purported children, his two brothers, his niece.
Nights Watch: Two straight LC's murdered. Currently without an elected LC.
We'll have to see if the show bothers developing the replacement nobility for the Reach and Stormlands. It very much did in the North (Boltons) and only a little bit did for the Riverlands (Freys). I suspect it wont.
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Rhaegar Was even mentioned in the show as being Dany's older brother. I could be wrong but I've watched the show twice. Without book readers this show would be unable to follow some of the details.
I just read this and posted mine without having read this. I agree. In fact, I don't even recall seeing him. I also didn't read the books so I guess to have thought he was the father of Jon, you must have read the books.
I agree, following these threads here on BBI is making it a lot easier to follow. In the first TOJ scenes, young Ned Stark did fight with King's Guard at the tower.
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But they could have probably done a better job for non-book readers. I think the Tyrion-Dany scene could have easily mentioned Rhaegar and Lyanna as an example of what happens when you choose love/lust over duty/responsibility. Would have fit in nicely after Dany cutting ties with Daario.
One problem I think. Neither Dany or Tyrion even know Jon Snow is Rhagaer's son.
That's not relevant. The point of the story would be that Rhaegar ranaway/kidnapped Lyanna for love/lust and it cost the Targaryen's their kingdom. If he was responsible and dutiful instead the Targaryen's would still be on the Iron Throne. The story would be told as an example as why Dany needs to put her duty above her love/lust for Daario. Jon Snow wouldnt' even be relevant to the conversation.
The idea would be to bring back up the Rhaegar/Lyanna relationship to the viewers, so they later tower of joy scene would have been clearer to non-book readers.
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In comment 13010435 Jolly Blue Giant said:
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Rhaegar Was even mentioned in the show as being Dany's older brother. I could be wrong but I've watched the show twice. Without book readers this show would be unable to follow some of the details.
I just read this and posted mine without having read this. I agree. In fact, I don't even recall seeing him. I also didn't read the books so I guess to have thought he was the father of Jon, you must have read the books.
I agree, following these threads here on BBI is making it a lot easier to follow. In the first TOJ scenes, young Ned Stark did fight with King's Guard at the tower.
Yes, and he knew his sister was up in that tower and that she screamed. I didn't associate her scream meaning child being born. I guess I should have. After all, Rhagar Must have had a pretty good reason to have his best guard protecting the tower instead of protecting him.
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combined most of the storylines now, right?
What is left?
Dani invading Winterfell
Euron laying in wait
Jaime vs Cersi
Sansa-Jon-Littlefinger trio fighting over the north
Arya now a sick assassin
The Hound doing whatever he does
Bran still north of the wall as the Three Eyed Raven
Brienne just rowing somewhere
Anything else?
Jorah is still wondering around somewhere looking for a cure...
Army of the dead
Dorne & Olenna v Cersi.
Melissandre, the Brothers w/o Banners, and the fire god in Westeros now that the leaders of the followers of the 7 are kaput (and the whole religion is detested by Cersi).
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In comment 13010360 Jon in NYC said:
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combined most of the storylines now, right?
What is left?
Dani invading Winterfell
Euron laying in wait
Jaime vs Cersi
Sansa-Jon-Littlefinger trio fighting over the north
Arya now a sick assassin
The Hound doing whatever he does
Bran still north of the wall as the Three Eyed Raven
Brienne just rowing somewhere
Anything else?
Jorah is still wondering around somewhere looking for a cure...
Army of the dead
Dorne & Olenna v Cersi.
Melissandre, the Brothers w/o Banners, and the fire god in Westeros now that the leaders of the followers of the 7 are kaput (and the whole religion is detested by Cersi).
Sam and Gilly. Sam and a big ass library.
That is a pretty popular theory. Similar to how the protection of the cave was broken after Bran was touched.
They preserved that look thru inbreeding. So maybe it is a weak gene.
To be clear: mad king dies, which elevates first child to King, Rheagar. Rheagar dies which then elevates his son, Jon Snow. Danny gets nada.
Anyone else think ARYA will be the one to end Cersei's life, not Danny. I believe Arya has Cersei on her list of people to kill. After watching how she killed Frey, I'm thinking she is going down her list. And she has faces to use as disguises.
That baked Freys pie scene was great.
I wonder Edmure was freed by his niece
To be clear: mad king dies, which elevates first child to King, Rheagar. Rheagar dies which then elevates his son, Jon Snow. Danny gets nada.
Jon is still a bastard. Rheagar's wife was Elia Martell of Dorne, not Lyanna Stark.
Barristan mentioned Rhaegar as being Dany's brother more than once, in more more than one season. You had the crypt scenes in season 5 between LF and Sansa explaining the situation between Rhaegar and Lyanna. And the scenes in season 1 explaining the situation between Lyanna and Robert. Could they have done better? Maybe I guess. But I think they did a pretty good job preparing you for this moment over the last 5 years to be honest.
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Does this mean Jon's right to the throne of the 7 supersedes Daenaryis's right if Rheagar outlived his father.
To be clear: mad king dies, which elevates first child to King, Rheagar. Rheagar dies which then elevates his son, Jon Snow. Danny gets nada.
Jon is still a bastard. Rheagar's wife was Elia Martell of Dorne, not Lyanna Stark.
Did Elia have any children? If not, doesn't a bastard still have some standing? After all, he has the King's blood running through him.
Anyone else think ARYA will be the one to end Cersei's life, not Danny. I believe Arya has Cersei on her list of people to kill. After watching how she killed Frey, I'm thinking she is going down her list. And she has faces to use as disguises.
This was my thought last night when she killed Frey. I would be surprised if she isn't the one who kills Cersei.
Did Elia have any children? If not, doesn't a bastard still have some standing? After all, he has the King's blood running through him.
Maybe as a last resort, or if elevated like Ramsey was. But Dany is a full blooded Targ, and that should win legally.
Though remember, Robert just took the throne. Cersi has no claim to it at all. And Jon is a bastard.
I do think it would be funny if Bran sent a raven to Winterfell addressed to the "Usurper Jon Snow".
The Braavos timeline was not tied to any rest of plot events after Tyrell and Trant went to the Iron Bank. We shouldnt assume we're seeing scenes in chronological order. Also, Braavos is fairly close to the Twins (Frey castle), especially if the ship skips the Vale and goes north of it. If that's the case it could be as little as a day or two once on horse.
Some claim but likely inferior claim. Ok?
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In comment 13010671 5BowlsSoon said:
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Does this mean Jon's right to the throne of the 7 supersedes Daenaryis's right if Rheagar outlived his father.
To be clear: mad king dies, which elevates first child to King, Rheagar. Rheagar dies which then elevates his son, Jon Snow. Danny gets nada.
Jon is still a bastard. Rheagar's wife was Elia Martell of Dorne, not Lyanna Stark.
Did Elia have any children? If not, doesn't a bastard still have some standing? After all, he has the King's blood running through him.
Elia had children. The Mountain killed them.
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In comment 13010699 Deej said:
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In comment 13010671 5BowlsSoon said:
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Does this mean Jon's right to the throne of the 7 supersedes Daenaryis's right if Rheagar outlived his father.
To be clear: mad king dies, which elevates first child to King, Rheagar. Rheagar dies which then elevates his son, Jon Snow. Danny gets nada.
Jon is still a bastard. Rheagar's wife was Elia Martell of Dorne, not Lyanna Stark.
Did Elia have any children? If not, doesn't a bastard still have some standing? After all, he has the King's blood running through him.
Elia had children. The Mountain killed them.
And he raped her...then squashed her head.
Gendry was in danger with Stannis bc he had kings blood and the red woman wanted to use that, right?
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In comment 13010699 Deej said:
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In comment 13010671 5BowlsSoon said:
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Does this mean Jon's right to the throne of the 7 supersedes Daenaryis's right if Rheagar outlived his father.
To be clear: mad king dies, which elevates first child to King, Rheagar. Rheagar dies which then elevates his son, Jon Snow. Danny gets nada.
Jon is still a bastard. Rheagar's wife was Elia Martell of Dorne, not Lyanna Stark.
Did Elia have any children? If not, doesn't a bastard still have some standing? After all, he has the King's blood running through him.
Elia had children. The Mountain killed them.
Lol! Thanks. This response really cracked me up. Thanks for the laugh Chris.
Just because it happens fast on tv doesn't mean it actually happens fast, they're just not showing us the entire trip like they did when Tyrion went to Mereen.
I don't have an issue with it. Eventually they have to progress things.
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which is why Gendry had to flee as he would have been killed by Stannis or the Lannisters had they found out.
Some claim but likely inferior claim. Ok?
Agreed no need to get pissy
You didn't watch it very well then. Rhaegar was mentioned quite a few times. He was referred to being thought to be the last dragon which of course Dani says he was not the last. Robert started the rebellion and wanted Dani killed as being family of Rhaegar who kidnapped and raped Ned's sister. Remember Ned being pissed because Robert wanted to kill Dani because she was a Targaryn. Littlefinger wasn't so sure about the kidnapping/rape part and that part is still in speculation. Rhaegar was also shown in the house of the undying or whatever when Dani sees a vision of her brother talking about the prince that was promised. Selmy and Dani talk about the mad kind and Rhaegar. It has been mentioned, but throughout 6 seasons over 6 years people probably forgot.
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is the speed of travel by some of these characters. Arya made it all the way back to kill Frey, Theon and his sister made it to Mereen in no time yet Brienne still hasn't returned from her meeting with the blackfish.
Just because it happens fast on tv doesn't mean it actually happens fast, they're just not showing us the entire trip like they did when Tyrion went to Mereen.
I don't have an issue with it. Eventually they have to progress things.
The only issue I had was that Varys was back in Mereen to ride back on the boat? I get that see travel is quicker, but he was in Dorn so why travel across the sea and then just travel right back across.
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In comment 13010758 Jay on the Island said:
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is the speed of travel by some of these characters. Arya made it all the way back to kill Frey, Theon and his sister made it to Mereen in no time yet Brienne still hasn't returned from her meeting with the blackfish.
Just because it happens fast on tv doesn't mean it actually happens fast, they're just not showing us the entire trip like they did when Tyrion went to Mereen.
I don't have an issue with it. Eventually they have to progress things.
The only issue I had was that Varys was back in Mereen to ride back on the boat? I get that see travel is quicker, but he was in Dorn so why travel across the sea and then just travel right back across.
Isn't Dorne on the same side as Mereen?
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In comment 13010880 halfback20 said:
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In comment 13010758 Jay on the Island said:
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is the speed of travel by some of these characters. Arya made it all the way back to kill Frey, Theon and his sister made it to Mereen in no time yet Brienne still hasn't returned from her meeting with the blackfish.
Just because it happens fast on tv doesn't mean it actually happens fast, they're just not showing us the entire trip like they did when Tyrion went to Mereen.
I don't have an issue with it. Eventually they have to progress things.
The only issue I had was that Varys was back in Mereen to ride back on the boat? I get that see travel is quicker, but he was in Dorn so why travel across the sea and then just travel right back across.
Isn't Dorne on the same side as Mereen?
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In comment 13010880 halfback20 said:
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In comment 13010758 Jay on the Island said:
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is the speed of travel by some of these characters. Arya made it all the way back to kill Frey, Theon and his sister made it to Mereen in no time yet Brienne still hasn't returned from her meeting with the blackfish.
Just because it happens fast on tv doesn't mean it actually happens fast, they're just not showing us the entire trip like they did when Tyrion went to Mereen.
I don't have an issue with it. Eventually they have to progress things.
The only issue I had was that Varys was back in Mereen to ride back on the boat? I get that see travel is quicker, but he was in Dorn so why travel across the sea and then just travel right back across.
Isn't Dorne on the same side as Mereen?
Nah it's in Westeros. It's the furthest south of any of the 7 kingdoms. To be fair it's fair but not THAT far from Mareen by boat
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In comment 13010758 Jay on the Island said:
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is the speed of travel by some of these characters. Arya made it all the way back to kill Frey, Theon and his sister made it to Mereen in no time yet Brienne still hasn't returned from her meeting with the blackfish.
Just because it happens fast on tv doesn't mean it actually happens fast, they're just not showing us the entire trip like they did when Tyrion went to Mereen.
I don't have an issue with it. Eventually they have to progress things.
The only issue I had was that Varys was back in Mereen to ride back on the boat? I get that see travel is quicker, but he was in Dorn so why travel across the sea and then just travel right back across.
If you watch the boat scene, there were boats from Dorne as well as Highgarden in that armada. So he probably was on the Dorne/Highgarden boats that went to Mereen to show thier support for Dany. There was definitely some time that took place been Varys in Dorne and the final armada scene.
Below is an interactive map of the 7 kingdoms to give you an idea how far Meereen is from Dorne. It's south of the Dothraki sea, just south of womb of the world.
link - ( New Window )
I took that as the fleet had already been to Dorne as well...
Maybe. Frankly, the size of Dany's army plus the dragons, when factoring just how leaderless and adrift the Westerosi houses are, this coming invasion should be a blood bath.
So something like Euron attacking them at sea, Dany blowing up all of KL (very unlikely) or something else needs to happen, or else this gets boring in a hurry. There isnt the leadership in Westeros to repell a dragon/dothraki/unsullied invasion, let alone one supported by Dorne and the Reach.
Below is an interactive map of the 7 kingdoms to give you an idea how far Meereen is from Dorne. It's south of the Dothraki sea, just south of womb of the world. link - ( New Window )
Which is why the much more plausible explanation is that varys sent word to mereen or the fleet somehow, and the fleet caught up with him in Dorne on the way up the narrow sea to KL.
Euron catching up with the fleet at sea sounds like a possible twist but even then, I can't see how his just constructed fleet can even compare with dany/dorne/tyrell + dragons
I remember it clearly. I also remember Littlefinger and Varys being 8 moves ahead of everyone else in the 7 kingdoms because they have extensive informant operations.
I don't think Varys is terribly interested in that...
I think it is pretty clear that he is always doing what he feels is right for the realm. He says as much. He serves the realm.
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In comment 13010880 halfback20 said:
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In comment 13010758 Jay on the Island said:
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is the speed of travel by some of these characters. Arya made it all the way back to kill Frey, Theon and his sister made it to Mereen in no time yet Brienne still hasn't returned from her meeting with the blackfish.
Just because it happens fast on tv doesn't mean it actually happens fast, they're just not showing us the entire trip like they did when Tyrion went to Mereen.
I don't have an issue with it. Eventually they have to progress things.
The only issue I had was that Varys was back in Mereen to ride back on the boat? I get that see travel is quicker, but he was in Dorn so why travel across the sea and then just travel right back across.
If you watch the boat scene, there were boats from Dorne as well as Highgarden in that armada. So he probably was on the Dorne/Highgarden boats that went to Mereen to show thier support for Dany. There was definitely some time that took place been Varys in Dorne and the final armada scene.
Oh didn't see the boats from Dorne or Highgarden... Interesting.
If he is alive, he may he the one to confirm it instead of Bran.
If no, then where will the drama come from?
It's funny you should say this. I was talking with my neighbor this morning and even he believed Rheagar was the Mad King. I confronted him and then he pulled out his cell phone to confirm what I said. So, you are not alone not knowing Rheagar was Daeny's brother.m
If no, then where will the drama come from?
Well Euron was looking for a queen to marry and now there is a queen on the iron throne....
If no, then where will the drama come from?
On appearances, the Lannisters should get absolutely steamrolled. They have no defense against what appears to be coming and no allies. Getting Dorne and the Tyrells on their side was underplayed but very, very important.
However, two things to remember; Cersei is officially murderously insane, and she may have more wildfire stored around the city.
Perhaps facing destruction, she would do what the Mad King wanted to as well and scorch the earth even while facing an obvious defeat.
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Do the Lannisters really have a chance against this conglomerate fleet crossing the sea?
If no, then where will the drama come from?
On appearances, the Lannisters should get absolutely steamrolled. They have no defense against what appears to be coming and no allies. Getting Dorne and the Tyrells on their side was underplayed but very, very important.
However, two things to remember; Cersei is officially murderously insane, and she may have more wildfire stored around the city.
Perhaps facing destruction, she would do what the Mad King wanted to as well and scorch the earth even while facing an obvious defeat.
I think her destroying King's Landing while committing suicide is totally possible; would jibe with Dany's visions of a destroyed throne room in the House of the Undying way back when.
Arya v Hound
Sansa v Cersi
Arya v Sansa
Bran v. any other Stark
Olenna v Cersi
Opens up the door for some queen on queen action on the long ship ride.
Since that point, more then usual, Cersi has been on this highly destructive path. What did Tommen tell her? Will we ever find out?
[quote] After she killed the Frey's, who else is left alive from her list? [/quoteï¼½
Cersei and Mountain
Cersie, The Mountain, Illian Pain?? (Is he still around?), The Red Priestess. I think that's it, although her list was much smaller when she recited it this season.
Maybe there will be a Return of the King-like 10 endings, and we'll see Arya retired to some island somewhere, laughing with Gendry in slow mo.
Lol! Nice....
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poor forgotten bastard.
Maybe there will be a Return of the King-like 10 endings, and we'll see Arya retired to some island somewhere, laughing with Gendry in slow mo.
Between Gendry and Brienne/Pod it clear that no one should ever row a boat in Westeros, or they will never be seen again.
Since that point, more then usual, Cersi has been on this highly destructive path. What did Tommen tell her? Will we ever find out?
No one knows, but IMO the best guess is that Olenna had Joffrey killed. I guess if she meets Tyrion it could come up. Or in another overwrought chat with the Kingslayer.
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In comment 13010714 Motley Two said:
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poor forgotten bastard.
Maybe there will be a Return of the King-like 10 endings, and we'll see Arya retired to some island somewhere, laughing with Gendry in slow mo.
Between Gendry and Brienne/Pod it clear that no one should ever row a boat in Westeros, or they will never be seen again.
Them Aligators are deadly
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In comment 13011324 Deej said:
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In comment 13010714 Motley Two said:
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poor forgotten bastard.
Maybe there will be a Return of the King-like 10 endings, and we'll see Arya retired to some island somewhere, laughing with Gendry in slow mo.
Between Gendry and Brienne/Pod it clear that no one should ever row a boat in Westeros, or they will never be seen again.
Them Aligators are deadly
Someone should put up a sign or something.
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In comment 13010714 Motley Two said:
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poor forgotten bastard.
Maybe there will be a Return of the King-like 10 endings, and we'll see Arya retired to some island somewhere, laughing with Gendry in slow mo.
Between Gendry and Brienne/Pod it clear that no one should ever row a boat in Westeros, or they will never be seen again.
I actually hope that the very last scene of the series is him rowing up to shore in King's Landing sporting giant Popeye-esque guns from years of rowing and wondering what he missed.
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After she killed the Frey's, who else is left alive from her list?
Cersie, The Mountain, Illian Pain?? (Is he still around?), The Red Priestess. I think that's it, although her list was much smaller when she recited it this season.
Arya got him in the brothel. Poked his eyes out and cut his throat.
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In comment 13011286 NYG27 said:
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After she killed the Frey's, who else is left alive from her list?
Cersie, The Mountain, Illian Pain?? (Is he still around?), The Red Priestess. I think that's it, although her list was much smaller when she recited it this season.
Arya got him in the brothel. Poked his eyes out and cut his throat.
Illian Pain, that is.
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In comment 13011310 Pete in 'Vliet said:
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In comment 13011286 NYG27 said:
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After she killed the Frey's, who else is left alive from her list?
Cersie, The Mountain, Illian Pain?? (Is he still around?), The Red Priestess. I think that's it, although her list was much smaller when she recited it this season.
Arya got him in the brothel. Poked his eyes out and cut his throat.
Illian Pain, that is.
Woops. That was Ser Meryn Trant. Pain is still around i think.
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In comment 13011394 Motley Two said:
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In comment 13011310 Pete in 'Vliet said:
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In comment 13011286 NYG27 said:
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After she killed the Frey's, who else is left alive from her list?
Cersie, The Mountain, Illian Pain?? (Is he still around?), The Red Priestess. I think that's it, although her list was much smaller when she recited it this season.
Arya got him in the brothel. Poked his eyes out and cut his throat.
Illian Pain, that is.
Woops. That was Ser Meryn Trant. Pain is still around i think.
I believe the actor that played Ilyn Payne sadly got cancer. Payne's character was suppose to have more rolls which they moved to other characters since he was battling cancer. The good news is he has beaten cancer after almost dying. Whether we ever see him on GoT though is not known.
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In comment 13011397 Motley Two said:
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In comment 13011394 Motley Two said:
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In comment 13011310 Pete in 'Vliet said:
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In comment 13011286 NYG27 said:
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After she killed the Frey's, who else is left alive from her list?
Cersie, The Mountain, Illian Pain?? (Is he still around?), The Red Priestess. I think that's it, although her list was much smaller when she recited it this season.
Arya got him in the brothel. Poked his eyes out and cut his throat.
Illian Pain, that is.
Woops. That was Ser Meryn Trant. Pain is still around i think.
I believe the actor that played Ilyn Payne sadly got cancer. Payne's character was suppose to have more rolls which they moved to other characters since he was battling cancer. The good news is he has beaten cancer after almost dying. Whether we ever see him on GoT though is not known.
I hope that is not considered a spoiler at all. It isn't about the show, but sadly the actor himself. I guess I did mention that he had other minor roles that were moved to other characters so I hope that doesn't cause any grief.
Admittedly, we book readers take a lot for granted. The back-story re. Robert's Rebellion and the Tourney at Harrenhal is ridiculously complicated. To get it at all, non-readers needed to pay very close attention to a few key scenes: two conversations between Baelish and Sansa; one between Jaime and Brienne; one where Jorah and Barristan shared their memories of Rhaegar with Daenerys; and several where Tywin, Tyrion and others tossed out critical information in what might have seemed like throw-away lines.
Dragons are drawn/tiex to individuals although Jon may have warg powers, no? In which case he becomes the Dragon.
Jon's bastard status as a Targ shouldn't be an issue as long as he has the right backing. However, it's possible Jon may not be a Targ bastard anyway. Historically Targs, in addition to being incestuous were also polygamous. See Aegon the conqueror as an example. He was married to his two sisters. Targs obeyed the rules of the Seven faith in recent generations, but people tend observe the rules that suit them at the time in this world. So it's possible if Rhaegar didn't take Lyanna by force, that he took her as a second wife making Jon legit, giving him the best legal claim to the throne. Probably a bit of a stretch but you never know.
Ultimately, I doubt the legal claim will matter. I doubt Dany would show up in Westeros and give up her lifelong quest because she found out she had a nephew with a better claim. I suspect Jon's Targ blood will be mainly relevant to the war of the Living vs. the Dead but who knows.
For those nerdy enough and with the free time, search online for videos produced by HBO to supplement the DVD sets. They offer a detailed history of the world relevant by season. Information that gets a few lines on the show is expanded upon in the supplemental material making things quite a bit easier to follow.
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Up until this morning I thought Rhaegar was the Mad King.
Last week, it took me a half hour to convince two fairly devoted fans of the show that Rhaegar was the Mad King's son. When I mentioned Aerys, they just stared blankly.
Admittedly, we book readers take a lot for granted. The back-story re. Robert's Rebellion and the Tourney at Harrenhal is ridiculously complicated. To get it at all, non-readers needed to pay very close attention to a few key scenes: two conversations between Baelish and Sansa; one between Jaime and Brienne; one where Jorah and Barristan shared their memories of Rhaegar with Daenerys; and several where Tywin, Tyrion and others tossed out critical information in what might have seemed like throw-away lines.
You are correct. Some of those conversations can be hard for a non book reader to process with no background and with GOT having one million characters to try to sort out with weird names. It wasn't until I visited Wikia that I began to process and sort out most of the characters (not all).
In comment 13010668 Deej said:
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Any reason why Jon doesn't have silver hair? Is the Stark brown hair gene (they make Lyanna have really dark brown hair) the dominant one over the Targaryen silver? Considering all the Targaryen's we know about on the show are silver-haired, it's interesting how Jon has a jet black emo look.
They preserved that look thru inbreeding. So maybe it is a weak gene.
I remember in season one that Ned noticed how all of the Baratheons had black hair and I always wondered if Jon wasn't Robert's son by Lianna. Wouldn't it be possible that she was carrying Robert's baby when she was raped? Just a thought.
Too bad Cersei used up all that green stuff. They're gonna need it.
Too bad Cersei used up all that green stuff. They're gonna need it.
There is more Wildfire the green stuff all over kings landing as Aerys the mad king wanted to burn them all.
But Tyrion knows it and will tell Dani the Unburnt about it.
Cersi Lanister, Ilen Paine The Mountain.
Please be aware of which thread you're in.
Cersi Lanister, Ilen Paine The Mountain.
Arya's slicing of Frey last night was my favorite moment. I'm looking forward to more favorite moments, courtesy of Arya Stark.
The important thing that the show wanted us to take from the Bran flashback scene is the revelation that Jon Snow is not Ned Stark's son.
Whether or not that means that Jon is a Targaeryan is something that I expect will be addressed in more detail at a later point.
How did everyone miss this? - ( New Window )
It's been mentioned a few times. One is linked below.
Link - ( New Window )
I wouldn't say everyone missed it. I think all the fan sites noted the connection to the opening credits. Whether it's significant, or just a cute little Easter Egg, is anyone's guess at this point.
Cersei is the Mad Queen. Jon Snow is the undead White Wolf. Dany is the etc. Varys and Littlefinger are playing the game at another level. Sansa is a certified. Arya is the killer. Winter is here and the Night King is coming.The episodes post-Hodor were meh, otherwise this was the best TV I've seen.
A lot of non-readers missed it, but the show-runners did try to explain the relationship.
More of Barristan gushing about Rhaegar - ( New Window )
A lot of non-readers missed it, but the show-runners did try to explain the relationship. More of Barristan gushing about Rhaegar - ( New Window )
Great scene on a lot of levels.
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/27/2016 1:56 pm : link : reply
On appearances, the Lannisters should get absolutely steamrolled. They have no defense against what appears to be coming and no allies. Getting Dorne and the Tyrells on their side was underplayed but very, very important.
However, two things to remember; Cersei is officially murderously insane, and she may have more wildfire stored around the city.
Perhaps facing destruction, she would do what the Mad King wanted to as well and scorch the earth even while facing an obvious defeat.
This was the reason, Jamie, became the Kingslayer.....will it make him also the Queenslayer?
Will Arya get to her first?
Will a dragon swoop down and get her?
Will Jon Snow Targaryen avenge his family?
Will Sansa have her revenge?
Or will it be Tyrion?
I hope so. I'm rooting for tons of destruction and a brutal ending. I'd also like to see atleast 1 curveball thrown in before the end of the series.
Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear.
and: And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you
Most assumed Margery was the younger more beautiful queen, but I still think Dany. Tyrion will be the valonqar.
Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear.
and: And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you
Most assumed Margery was the younger more beautiful queen, but I still think Dany. Tyrion will be the valonqar.
I hope it's Jaime and not Tyrion. Having the dual titles of Kingslayer and Queenslayer is just too damn good for the story.
From David Benioff:
I don't know, maybe I'm making more of it than I should, but it sure does look like Cersei is megafucked at the moment.
Going back to Cersi, never thought she'd take the thrown, never even thought of that. I just thought she was going mad and in survival mode. She got revenge against all her foes and is making the Shame Nun tortured by the Mountain for everything she did to Cersi while help captive. I also like that Cersi forced herself in power and now with Ramsey dead, I like that she's the primary villain in the series that everyone will love to hate. Also now that Cersi is queen, that should open up a political marriage for her to take on a husband that can strengthen her position. Euron Greyjoy is building a 1000 ship fleet and originally wanted Dany's hand in marriage but since his nephew and niece Theon and Yara, got to Dany first. Then this would leave a perfect opening to offer his 1000 ship fleet to Cersi in her hand in marriage. That should make for an amazing sea battle next season with Euron's ship's vs Dany's ships. I'm also interested to see Jamie's reaction to all this after seeing the city burning and hearing his son died. Jamie always loved Cersi more then she did for him, so hopefully this will be a wake up call for Jamie as I really do want to root for him. Will Jamie be forced once again to do what is right by the realm and be a Queenslayer, although I think that right to kill Cersi is reserved for Arya.
Speaking of Arya, great to see her back in Westeros and crossing off the names on her list. She now has the skills to be an elite assassin and will be interested to see what she'll be up too. She still has 3 names on her list with with Cersi, Mountain and Ilyn Payne (the guy who chopped off Ned's head). Also the Hound but since she left him for dead once, not sure if she'll take a second stab at him.
Interesting to see Sam finally reach the Citadel. It's massive library of knowledge that has text dating back 8000 years. I think Sam will play a big role in the final two seasons, as there has to be something written about how to deal with the white walkers. I also think Jorah Mormont is heading to the Citadel, since Dany gave him the order to find a cure and if there is knowledge of a cure for greyscale, it is sure to be at the library. Plus Sam's father, who Sam stole the Valerian steel sword from, knows he's at the Citadel and I feel will head there to kill Sam and take back his sword. Maybe Jorah will rescue Sam from his father and in return Sam will help Jorah find a cure for greyscale from the texts in the Citadel's library.
Tyrion for most of his life, I feel, always wanted to be accepted. Either from his family or anyone in his company that he paid for or bought off to be his friend. Then when he became Hand of the King, he saved Kings Landing on more then one occasion but never got the due credit for any of this actions. So that scene with Dany, was really great to see, as he's finally gotten the acceptance and credit he always wanted when Dany made him the Hand of the Queen. Very nice scene also when Varys secured Dany's Westeros support from both Dorne and Highgarden.
Finally, what a great scene to wrap up the Jon Snow arch for this season when he was declared the King of the North. The young actress who played Lyanna Mormont has really done an great job. She's stolen almost every scene she's been in and gave an amazing speech that shamed the other Northern Lords for their actions and to finally declare Jon the King of the North. That one move also under cut Littlefinger's plans to marry Sansa and unite the North in his quest to take the Iron Throne. I'm glad Sansa isn't falling for any of his lies anymore and will be interesting to see what Littlefinger's next strategy and plans will be.
Really looking forward to next season!
From David Benioff:
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It’s two more seasons we’re talking about. From pretty close to the beginning, we talked about doing this in 70-75 hours, and that’s what we’ll end up with. Call it 73 for now.
Best news so far. The rumors of 7 or 8 final episodes just didn't give me any confidence at all in doing a proper send off. Too much left to do.
I don't know, maybe I'm making more of it than I should, but it sure does look like Cersei is megafucked at the moment.
Tywin did say she's not as smart as she thinks she is. I would be surprised if the people of King's Landing aren't against her too after she killed a bunch of innocent people. I think Euron joining/marrying her is almost a given.
I think Littlefinger's plan is to continue to concern-troll Sansa, get Jon out of the picture,let Dany et al and Cersei destroy each other, then swoop in late. I think the Sansa-Jon tension was one of the best storylines to come out of the finale.
Cersi and Euron unit Againist mother of dragons. Including the hell horn which controls dragons.
Sam learns how to defeat the White Walkers Army.
Wall falls after Bran goes though it removing the magic spells.
Arya continues her list even seeing Jon at one point while wearing another's face.
Dani defeats Cersi with Jons help Jon kills Jamie,and Tyrion kills Cersi.
I think it's a completely different experience, so no, it's not too late by any means. You might love the books or hate them. Enjoying the show might not be a good predictor. The books feature a lot of sour beer, hard cheese, bloody flux and aimless wandering. Not to mention a ton of history and folklore that you may not care about.
It is not. Gives a lot more detail. I read the first one after 3 or 4 seasons. Plan on reading the rest before the series ends. Time permitting.
I think the books offer a completely different experience. The show does as good a job as you can possibly do, but it still doesn't compare, IMO. Not to mention both the showrunners and Martin confirming the story's ending and how they get there will be different, it makes it a must read for me.
I think Varys was in on the Sept of Baelor bombing in that he either knew it was coming or even possibly helped move it along stealthily.
The timing of his departure for Dorne to meet with Elaria - and Olenna - is highly suspect. He leaves Meereen to build a Westerosi coalition to support Daenerys and just happens to arrive in Dorne when Olenna is vulnerable and desperate for revenge against the Lannisters.
The bombing was done with help from Qyburn's little birds. I believe they're actually still Varys's little birds. I believe they tipped Varys off regarding Qyburn and Cersei's plans and decided to use it to his advantage. So he sat on the info, allowed it to happen and made sure he was in Dorne at the same time as a distraught and vengeful Olenna to recruit her to his cause. This is totally a Varys move.
Further, I think Tyrion may figure this out and kill Varys.
The timing of his departure for Dorne to meet with Elaria - and Olenna - is highly suspect. He leaves Meereen to build a Westerosi coalition to support Daenerys and just happens to arrive in Dorne when Olenna is vulnerable and desperate for revenge against the Lannisters.
The bombing was done with help from Qyburn's little birds. I believe they're actually still Varys's little birds. I believe they tipped Varys off regarding Qyburn and Cersei's plans and decided to use it to his advantage. So he sat on the info, allowed it to happen and made sure he was in Dorne at the same time as a distraught and vengeful Olenna to recruit her to his cause. This is totally a Varys move.
Further, I think Tyrion may figure this out and kill Varys.
You have a lot of clever stuff there - maybe too clever for the show. The main practical objection is that blowing up the Sept was Cersei's Plan B. Plan A was Trial by Combat featuring Frankenmountain. For your theory to hold, Varys would have needed a pretty strong suspicion that Plan A would fall through. (Not impossible for a Spider of Varys's skills, but still...) By the time Cersei shifted to Plan B, she only had a couple of days to set it in motion.
So, who else is shipping Euron and Cersei? Get it? SHIPping?
I'm here all week, folks. Get home safe.
From David Benioff:
Quote:
It’s two more seasons we’re talking about. From pretty close to the beginning, we talked about doing this in 70-75 hours, and that’s what we’ll end up with. Call it 73 for now.
I wonder how they will split up both seasons. I hope season 7 is at least eight episodes long and season 8 has the remaining five, with the finale being a 2 hour event.
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You have a lot of clever stuff there - maybe too clever for the show. The main practical objection is that blowing up the Sept was Cersei's Plan B. Plan A was Trial by Combat featuring Frankenmountain. For your theory to hold, Varys would have needed a pretty strong suspicion that Plan A would fall through. (Not impossible for a Spider of Varys's skills, but still...) By the time Cersei shifted to Plan B, she only had a couple of days to set it in motion.
So, who else is shipping Euron and Cersei? Get it? SHIPping?
I'm here all week, folks. Get home safe.
I think Cersei knew the Sparrow would pull the trial by combat option out from under her. That's why she looked into the wildfire in the first place.
Then again, compared to Qyburn, Pycelle was a paragon of moral rectitude - except that Qyburn has a much stronger work ethic.
While
Stark vs Littlefinger with the Whitewalkers playing spoilers?
Euron gets to sit the Iron Throne for about twenty minutes, until he either:
a) Gets incinerated by dragonfire;
or (much less likely)
b) Vanquishes Cersei's enemies, whereupon she poisons him.
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..
Cersei gets a fleet for the Second Battle of The Blackwater.
Euron gets to sit the Iron Throne for about twenty minutes, until he either:
a) Gets incinerated by dragonfire;
or (much less likely)
b) Vanquishes Cersei's enemies, whereupon she poisons him.
He wants the Dragons. Cersei has nothing to offer him, except the throne, but even that he could probably take without her help.
Conversely, she doesn't need his fleet to guard the Blackwater, there's aleady a royal fleet. And she is not taking a new husband.
While
Stark vs Littlefinger with the Whitewalkers playing spoilers?
Pretty much, except add the Reach to Team Dany. Cersei may have smoked House Tyrell and the Faith Militant in the West Regional, but the Highgarden army is largely intact. As if the East Region Champs weren't imposing enough already, Dragongirl just added thousands of Tyrell soldiers, without the dead weight of that buffoon Mace.
And of course, Euron + Cersei is just a guess at this point.
If it comes to that, I'm all in on the Night's King.
(Robert is his name in the books. Take THAT, spoiler-phobes!)
Haha, this was definitely much needed, I mean the fading from baby Jon into adult Jon on the finale wasn't a dead giveaway or anything...
Several co-workers are saying once all the Lords in the North declared Jon as their King, then Jon automatically became officially recognized as a Stark and is not a Snow anymore.
Personally, I still think he is a Snow and only the King (Queen) regent at Kings Landing can officially declare Jon to be a legitimate Stark or not.
Aegon Targaryen.