NFT: Jessie Williams' speech

seriously.

In comment 13010945 chris r said:

Quote:

seriously.

Today's celebrity could be tomorrow's candidate for President.

?

.

I am trying to say. This guy obviously planned and rehearsed this speech and he did't think the line "this invention called whiteness" was just a tad offensive?

I had no idea this guy existed.

I'd guess he picked it purposefully in kind. But it's not that bad, IMO.

In comment 13010989 Big Al said:

Quote:

I had no idea this guy existed.

I didn't know who he was until this morning when the Today Show had a segment about how great and powerful his speech was.

In comment 13010973 Pete in MD said:

Quote:

I am trying to say. This guy obviously planned and rehearsed this speech and he did't think the line "this invention called whiteness" was just a tad offensive?

I don't think he cares about offending you. If you listen to his speech. He addresses your critique basically telling you to STFU

In comment 13010989 Big Al said:

Quote:

I had no idea this guy existed.

same here

White man is keeping the black man down and it's not gonna happen anymore. Is that every white person? Because there are millions of people that are not racist.

In comment 13011027 ron mexico said:

Quote:

In comment 13010973 Pete in MD said: Quote: I am trying to say. This guy obviously planned and rehearsed this speech and he did't think the line "this invention called whiteness" was just a tad offensive? I don't think he cares about offending you. If you listen to his speech. He addresses your critique basically telling you to STFU

He really doesn't though. Racism is about unfairly making assumptions about people based on their ethnicity. He just sound like a hypocrite IMO.

it was on oppression

is Jessie Williams?

In comment 13011086 AcidTest said:

Quote:

is Jessie Williams?

Australian defensive tackle who played for the Seahawks,

But, I still don't other than he made a speech at the BET awards.

White feels persecuted after black man no one ever heard of gives a speech.

In comment 13011167 AP in Halfmoon said:

Quote:

White feels persecuted after black man no one ever heard of gives a speech.

Yes but some of my best friends are Black so I get a pass.

In comment 13011167 AP in Halfmoon said:

Quote:

White feels persecuted after black man no one ever heard of gives a speech.

I don't feel persecuted but just thought is was an odd choice to put another race down in a speech racism/repression.

Chicago over memorial day weekend?


because im not sure why there is always a blind eye to that.

In comment 13011186 Pete in MD said:

Quote:

In comment 13011167 AP in Halfmoon said: Quote: White feels persecuted after black man no one ever heard of gives a speech. I don't feel persecuted but just thought is was an odd choice to put another race down in a speech racism/repression.

Because he is talking specifically about racism and oppression towards black people.

Is it really that hard to understand?

And let’s get a couple things straight. Just a little sidenote. The burden of the brutalized is not to comfort the bystander. That’s not our job, alright. Stop with all that. If you have a critique for the resistance, for our resistance, then you better have an established record of critique of our oppression… If you have no interest in equal rights for black people, then do not make suggestions to those who do. Sit down.

In comment 13011196 ron mexico said:

Quote:

In comment 13011186 Pete in MD said: Quote: In comment 13011167 AP in Halfmoon said: Quote: White feels persecuted after black man no one ever heard of gives a speech. I don't feel persecuted but just thought is was an odd choice to put another race down in a speech racism/repression. Because he is talking specifically about racism and oppression towards black people. Is it really that hard to understand?

No, I understand completely what he was doing I just think it was a poor way to go about doing it and worthy of debate.

was excellent, and mostly true if everyone is being honest with themselves about the way our society is. It's his opinion and he used the platform to speak it.

Don't care.

why white people immediately become offended when something like this happens.

is very much alive in this country as is racism. People who can't see that..I don't have much to tell you.

I can absolutely endorse that comment.

In comment 13011186 Pete in MD said:

Quote:

In comment 13011167 AP in Halfmoon said: Quote: White feels persecuted after black man no one ever heard of gives a speech. I don't feel persecuted but just thought is was an odd choice to put another race down in a speech racism/repression.

"You guys are great! If you could just please stop shooting us during routine traffic stops and the like, that would be awesome. Mmmkay? Thanks!"

In comment 13011225 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

was excellent, and mostly true if everyone is being honest with themselves about the way our society is. It's his opinion and he used the platform to speak it.

Really? If I'm being honest with myself the only logical conclusion is that white people are evil and hell bent on keeping the black man down? Is this the 1800s?

In comment 13011234 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

is very much alive in this country as is racism. People who can't see that..I don't have much to tell you.

I'm not really offended. I just don't understand why he chose to use those words in making his point. The message should be about inclusion and not us vs them.

In comment 13011247 Pete in MD said:

Quote:

In comment 13011225 ryanmkeane said: Quote: was excellent, and mostly true if everyone is being honest with themselves about the way our society is. It's his opinion and he used the platform to speak it. Really? If I'm being honest with myself the only logical conclusion is that white people are evil and hell bent on keeping the black man down? Is this the 1800s?

That wasn't my take away.

I thought he was addressing systemic problems as he sees them. Wasn't talking about what is the the hear of every single white person in the country.

In comment 13011230 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

why white people immediately become offended when something like this happens.

not white but i was in the middle. When will someone say its time to retire the n word? i mean if you dont want people saying the n word, why include it in your music? sorry but you cant have it two ways regardless of how you are saying the n word

im not angry with what he said. what he said is true, but where are the leaders and the spokespeople who can say to the people shooting each other in Chicago to put it down and just better yourselves. People are killing their own and for nothing. Why not turn your attention to that as well as the rest. is that not mentioned because no one is to blame there?

im fine with what jesse said but i dont get why other things never get any attention

and he may not have expressed himself perfectly. Sounded like he was venting about something that is very real.

I'm not offended.

maybe some of you should be wondering why a lot of black people feel this way?

Because those using the n word in music are a tiny fraction of the black population?

In comment 13011283 AP in Halfmoon said:

Quote:

Because those using the n word in music are a tiny fraction of the black population?

no i get that but the music is give to the vast population and what do you expect afterwards. its popular music. And it isnt a small fraction. If you make it cool in your songs, what do you expect if someone else says it

In comment 13011268 GMAN4LIFE said:

Quote:

In comment 13011230 ryanmkeane said: Quote: why white people immediately become offended when something like this happens. not white but i was in the middle. When will someone say its time to retire the n word? i mean if you dont want people saying the n word, why include it in your music? sorry but you cant have it two ways regardless of how you are saying the n word im not angry with what he said. what he said is true, but where are the leaders and the spokespeople who can say to the people shooting each other in Chicago to put it down and just better yourselves. People are killing their own and for nothing. Why not turn your attention to that as well as the rest. is that not mentioned because no one is to blame there? im fine with what jesse said but i dont get why other things never get any attention

"im fine with what jesse said but i dont get why other things never get any attention"

Are you kidding? It gets a shit ton of attention and MANY black folks don't like the use of the word. Which has little to do with the discussion. Funny how that comes up if someone mentions injustices to blacks.

hate group, at least the leaders.

they protest for and support criminals without any legal evidence.

and they show this shit on Nickelodeon.

In comment 13011292 madgiantscow009 said:

Quote:

hate group, at least the leaders. they protest for and support criminals without any legal evidence. and they show this shit on Nickelodeon.

I don't know much about them but they are probably overly-sensitive given the injustices they see all the time and they go overboard in the other direction.

downhill fast. How long until the name calling?

In comment 13011292 madgiantscow009 said:

Quote:

hate group, at least the leaders. they protest for and support criminals without any legal evidence. and they show this shit on Nickelodeon.

wait, whats gets shown on nickelodeon?

In comment 13011290 Randy in CT said:

Quote:

In comment 13011268 GMAN4LIFE said: Quote: In comment 13011230 ryanmkeane said: Quote: why white people immediately become offended when something like this happens. not white but i was in the middle. When will someone say its time to retire the n word? i mean if you dont want people saying the n word, why include it in your music? sorry but you cant have it two ways regardless of how you are saying the n word im not angry with what he said. what he said is true, but where are the leaders and the spokespeople who can say to the people shooting each other in Chicago to put it down and just better yourselves. People are killing their own and for nothing. Why not turn your attention to that as well as the rest. is that not mentioned because no one is to blame there? im fine with what jesse said but i dont get why other things never get any attention "im fine with what jesse said but i dont get why other things never get any attention" Are you kidding? It gets a shit ton of attention and MANY black folks don't like the use of the word. Which has little to do with the discussion. Funny how that comes up if someone mentions injustices to blacks.

no see whats their to discuss then. jesse feels one way and strong about the oppression part but here is the one no one talks about because my n word portion is what you are all hung up on

Just a few interesting stats: Thus far in Chicago year to date there have been 322 murders, 1616 shot and wounded. That equals a shooting every 2 hours and 15 minutes, and a murder every 13 hours and 22 minutes. no attention to this?

not really directed at you per se but you brought it up. Why is that when someone speaks up about something they have to take on any and everything before people think its legitimate?

I agree with you that those issues need a voice a well and it speaks to the lack of leadership and activists today. And im not talking about the clowns like Jackson and Sharpton. Williams chose to speak on this topic and focus on it. There is nothing wrong with that.

And for others, if you listen to his speech he did not attack white people. He spoke about the concept of "whiteness" which speaks to the belief that being white is being superior. And its not just white people that suffer from this.

Also a lot of people need to look up and realize the distinct difference between prejudism and racism. a couple posts on this thread decribe prejudism but are calling it racism.

In comment 13011268 GMAN4LIFE said:

Quote:

im not angry with what he said. what he said is true, but where are the leaders and the spokespeople who can say to the people shooting each other in Chicago to put it down and just better yourselves. People are killing their own and for nothing. Why not turn your attention to that as well as the rest. is that not mentioned because no one is to blame there?

Black Lives Matter:
The movement doesn’t care about black-on-black crime. The idea that black-on-black crime is not a significant political conversation among black people is patently false. In Chicago, long maligned for its high rates of intraracial murder, members of the community created the Violence Interrupters to disrupt violent altercations before they escalate. However, those who insist on talking about black-on-black crime frequently fail to acknowledge that most crime is intraracial. Ninety-three percent of black murder victims are killed by other black people. Eighty-four percent of white murder victims are killed by other white people. The continued focus on black-on-black crime is a diversionary tactic, whose goal is to suggest that black people don’t have the right to be outraged about police violence in vulnerable black communities, because those communities have a crime problem. The Black Lives Matter movement acknowledges the crime problem, but it refuses to locate that crime problem as a problem of black pathology. Black people are not inherently more violent or more prone to crime than other groups. But black people are disproportionately poorer, more likely to be targeted by police and arrested, and more likely to attend poor or failing schools. All of these social indicators place one at greater risk for being either a victim or a perpetrator of violent crime. To reduce violent crime, we must fight to change systems, rather than demonizing people.
Link - ( New Window )

understand both sides of the "argument" but find it somewhat humorous when white people are immediately always like "whoa whoa whoa you're making some pretty serious claims there..." when like, literally, over 50% of this country is just flat out horribly racist.

It's not as simple as "blacks need to stop killing other blacks".

In comment 13011328 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

understand both sides of the "argument" but find it somewhat humorous when white people are immediately always like "whoa whoa whoa you're making some pretty serious claims there..." when like, literally, over 50% of this country is just flat out horribly racist.

i blame the media... media focuses on it and the people just eat it up.

In comment 13011335 GMAN4LIFE said:

Quote:

In comment 13011328 ryanmkeane said: Quote: understand both sides of the "argument" but find it somewhat humorous when white people are immediately always like "whoa whoa whoa you're making some pretty serious claims there..." when like, literally, over 50% of this country is just flat out horribly racist. i blame the media... media focuses on it and the people just eat it up.

Agreed that the media is a joke...but the media is not to blame for people being horribly racist, which again...is over 50% of this country. So...guess we will just not see eye to eye on that.

In comment 13011328 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

understand both sides of the "argument" but find it somewhat humorous when white people are immediately always like "whoa whoa whoa you're making some pretty serious claims there..." when like, literally, over 50% of this country is just flat out horribly racist.

I find your ideas intriguing! Do you have a newsletter I might subscribe to?

In comment 13011328 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

understand both sides of the "argument" but find it somewhat humorous when white people are immediately always like "whoa whoa whoa you're making some pretty serious claims there..." when like, literally, over 50% of this country is just flat out horribly racist.

Whoa whoa whoa, you're making some pretty serious claims there... (like pulling a bullshit 'statistic' out of your ass).

In comment 13011341 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

In comment 13011335 GMAN4LIFE said: Quote: In comment 13011328 ryanmkeane said: Quote: understand both sides of the "argument" but find it somewhat humorous when white people are immediately always like "whoa whoa whoa you're making some pretty serious claims there..." when like, literally, over 50% of this country is just flat out horribly racist. i blame the media... media focuses on it and the people just eat it up. Agreed that the media is a joke...but the media is not to blame for people being horribly racist, which again...is over 50% of this country. So...guess we will just not see eye to eye on that.

all good. agree to disagree on the media and the percent. im thinking 40% but not over 50%.

you can't be serious?

habit from always typing gmen about the giants

In comment 13011349 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

you can't be serious?

You pull a number out of your ass and in your infinite wisdom accuse more than half the country of being horribly racist. So yes, I'm serious.

Social Justice Warriors breathlessly showing their command of facts and nuance

In comment 13011353 Mighty said:

Quote:

habit from always typing gmen about the giants

all good, i knew you meant me :)

In comment 13010989 Big Al said:

Quote:

I had no idea this guy existed.

This^

everyone chooses to ignore reality, honestly. And the longer that happens the worse off we are. For reasons I can't explain, there are some white people that just refuse to see it.

In comment 13011376 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

everyone chooses to ignore reality, honestly. And the longer that happens the worse off we are. For reasons I can't explain, there are some white people that just refuse to see it.

Most people acknowledge that there are problems, but there is no consensus (among people of any color) as to what exactly the problems are and what remedial measures are likely to fix them. Those who disagree with you are not invariably ignorant or ill-intentioned and often they've put a good deal more thought into it than you seem to.

Said in an snippet of a speech something most might not agree with?

The BBI commentary is the only interesting part of this thread.

has heard of this guy? So you'd pay attention to it if Brad Pitt said the same exact thing?

In comment 13011383 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

has heard of this guy? So you'd pay attention to it if Brad Pitt said the same exact thing?

No. I pretty much file all this shit in the "ain't got no time for" folder

.

In comment 13011383 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

has heard of this guy? So you'd pay attention to it if Brad Pitt said the same exact thing?

How is his speech any more important or attention worthy than a comment from David in LA ?

I wouldn't take any advice on anything from Brad Pitt, unless it was men's fashion advice.

I'm interested in the BBI comments from posters whose opinions I hold value in, barring that I'm here to be mildly entertained when bored or read opinions from posters I may not have heard from before.

In comment 13011383 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

has heard of this guy? So you'd pay attention to it if Brad Pitt said the same exact thing?

Who gives a shit about what that dummy has to say?

please get here sooner.......

than mine, Patrick.

that BBI is a very white message board, no real debating that....

black people who are just as rascist than white people. I also live and work in a city where minorities are closer to even than the national average, so I definitely see both side of the coin.

There are a lot of shitty people out here in the world.... whites, black, and hispanics included. People wondering why racism will never die? Its because there are a lot of hateful people in this world.

In comment 13011230 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

why white people immediately become offended when something like this happens.

Agree. It does seem like the people that whine about everyone being "PC" and minorities being "easily offended" are the first ones to get offended when they feel they are being slighted in anyway. . I don't mean to say the original poster was doing that but it's certainly a trend I've noticed in general.

In comment 13011439 Fish said:

Quote:

please get here sooner.......

Or Isles hockey!!! Amiright Fish!?!?!?!?!

Quote:

However, those who insist on talking about black-on-black crime frequently fail to acknowledge that most crime is intraracial. Ninety-three percent of black murder victims are killed by other black people. Eighty-four percent of white murder victims are killed by other white people. The continued focus on black-on-black crime is a diversionary tactic,

How convenient they fail to mention the black-on-black murder rate is eight times the white-on-white murder rate. If the black murder rate was the same as the white murder rate, murder wouldn't even be a topic in America. BLM. A lie built on a fiction.

In comment 13011543 BillT said:

Quote:

Quote: However, those who insist on talking about black-on-black crime frequently fail to acknowledge that most crime is intraracial. Ninety-three percent of black murder victims are killed by other black people. Eighty-four percent of white murder victims are killed by other white people. The continued focus on black-on-black crime is a diversionary tactic, How convenient they fail to mention the black-on-black murder rate is eight times the white-on-white murder rate. If the black murder rate was the same as the white murder rate, murder wouldn't even be a topic in America. BLM. A lie built on a fiction.

Don't you think the extremely high murder rate is a symptom of how bad things are in black communities? It's not as simple as "blacks have to stop committing crimes against one another".

who give a shit what Brad Pitt has to say. About anything. Unless he's pretending to be someone else and mouthing somebody's words. Gosh. 46.3345% of the people in this world are morons.

Frustration over high profile incidents of police (and sometimes police wannabes) killing young black males and a perceived lack of accountability afterwards. Relationship between police and minorities has been strained throughout much of American history, and like President Obama said - it's not always imagined.

I think BLM needs to look at each incident objectively and fairly. And, they tend to miss opportunities to really impact the issue.

I didn't think much of the speech. But, he's entitled to his opinion. One point I agree with - re: the hypocrites people who bring up black on black crime use it as a pivot when police abuses are alleged. For example, a lot of the talking heads on Fox News rarely if ever focus on the subject, unless it is to counter allegations of police abuse.

But the speech would make it seem like the system is stacked against minorities. Issues are more complex than his world view.

Don't want to hear about it. And believe if you work hard, do well in school you can do anything you want. And they are right.

Are people racist? We are all a little prejudiced. I am sure of that but most people don't give a crap what shade of skin you have. I take Morgan Freemans approach. Stop talking about it and it will go away.

I was addressing the BLM Big Lie. And it is a big lie. And they are the ones using a diversionary tactic not those who point out the black-on-black murder rate. And you are trying to change the subject. Yes, things are bad in the black inter city. Maybe another 60 years of "Great Society" programs will help.

for yourself.

and not saying he's right, but taking the ostrich approach isn't going to resolve issues either. people should stop talking about things that make you uncomfortable? - not going to happen. besides, how many white people do you think were watching the BET Awards? - not like it's being shoved down your throat.

BLM is a reaction. I think they get a lot wrong, but, the tension has been there throughout history. high profile incidents cause flare ups.

and relatively speaking, BLM is a tiny, tiny group.

While race undoubtedly plays a role in some incidents, the idea that it's entirely a racial phenomenon is both silly and counterproductive. There are many, many instances of white people being beaten and shot under questionable at best circumstances.

But the historical strain, more specifically the roles government assigned to the police re: minorities starting with slave patrols, enforcing Jim Crow Laws, and eventually the war on drugs - it was recipe a for ill will, on both sides, in fact one could argue it is surprising that the relationship isn't worse. and the high profile incidents provide the spark...add to that emotions, the media, misguided responses on both sides incompetent handling of the aftermath and self-serving agitators...

I think sometimes people use it for personal gain rather than trying to help anything. ESPN just had a segment asking does the NBA need a white superstar? Is this any less racist from asking does the country need a black president? police have been revenue collecters for cities for years and now when they are villianized by the people having to pay these fines is it more racist for the police to try and fine people or more racist for holding it against them for following there procedures. It is complicated issue that is used now to promote careers and make people fight against one another.

In comment 13011328 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

understand both sides of the "argument" but find it somewhat humorous when white people are immediately always like "whoa whoa whoa you're making some pretty serious claims there..." when like, literally, over 50% of this country is just flat out horribly racist.

50% of the nation is racist? WTF?

Or is his dad?

In comment 13011479 Spreegal22 said:

Quote:

In comment 13011230 ryanmkeane said: Quote: why white people immediately become offended when something like this happens. Agree. It does seem like the people that whine about everyone being "PC" and minorities being "easily offended" are the first ones to get offended when they feel they are being slighted in anyway. . I don't mean to say the original poster was doing that but it's certainly a trend I've noticed in general.

Agree

.
Link - ( New Window )

...just volunteers.

More divided, less prosperous and this bomb is ticking.

Racist come in all forms.....it is more accepted from the minority but just as wrong.

I personally think it is a waste of time, none productive, and more perception than reality.

Certainly minorities have less opportunity but they have been lied to for 50 years. They have less opportunities not because of their race but they have less contacts and connections to success. There is competition and you must persevere as the odds are against you. Dependency on government is just like any addiction....makes you weaker and even less likely to reach independence.

.

is that blacks are just taking free handouts and making themselves weaker, am I following correctly? The general tone of your post seems to be 'suck it up!'

"Life's not fair, raise yourself up..." Sort of philosophy? I raised my kids that way, tbh.

Spend some time in Appalachia. Your skin does not assure you contacts or some sort of habituation to hard work and ambition. White rural poor and black rural poor have much more in common with each other than they do with college-bound suburbanites of their own skin tone.

In comment 13011940 Bill L said:

Quote:

"Life's not fair, raise yourself up..." Sort of philosophy? I raised my kids that way, tbh.

I feel like it's a very broad solution to an incredibly nuanced societal issue.

In comment 13011957 Dunedin81 said:

Quote:

Spend some time in Appalachia. Your skin does not assure you contacts or some sort of habituation to hard work and ambition. White rural poor and black rural poor have much more in common with each other than they do with college-bound suburbanites of their own skin tone.

No disagreement here.

Yep, lots of white people struggling as well.

In comment 13011986 David in LA said:

Quote:

In comment 13011940 Bill L said: Quote: "Life's not fair, raise yourself up..." Sort of philosophy? I raised my kids that way, tbh. I feel like it's a very broad solution to an incredibly nuanced societal issue.

I seldom see these things as societal things. There's individual situations and individual solutions. I think you become paralyzed when all you do is complain that God is picking on you.

.

In comment 13012551 David in LA said:

Quote:

.

Your normal tactic. When issues like this are discussed, your go is to ask so you believe there is no police brutality, or there is no discrimatio, etc. you put in other people's mouth's, Even people sympathetic to your point of view have called you on this type of stuff.

I'm positing a question to Bill to get a better grasp of what his position is, the fact that you interpret that as me putting words in his mouth is on you. This was a pretty civil convo, but here you are trying to stir something up between me and another poster. Stay in your lane.

I assume that they are not.

I only know that I feel (and let me stress this as emphatically as possible...you do not have to feel the same way) as an individual, it's incumbent upon you to surmount them. If you give in to self-pity, even if God truly does hate you, you will paralyze yourself. So, to whatever extent you can, suck it up and deal with life. I don't think it's a particular horrible philosophy.

In comment 13012602 David in LA said:

Quote:

...This was a pretty civil convo...

LOL.

Hope you don't feel that my intent was to put words in your mouth, I do feel that to an extent you are right. In an ideal world, there'd be more personal responsibility to go around. I just think there's some things that are very complex that mere personal responsibility isn't going to make some problems go away for some people.

Did you finally get a life yet?

In comment 13012634 David in LA said:

Quote:

Did you finally get a life yet?

Did you stop stealing from people?

I hope you have a humid ass summer.

In comment 13012631 David in LA said:

Quote:

Hope you don't feel that my intent was to put words in your mouth, I do feel that to an extent you are right. In an ideal world, there'd be more personal responsibility to go around. I just think there's some things that are very complex that mere personal responsibility isn't going to make some problems go away for some people.

It had a question mark, so technically it was a question but a pretty stupid one which we have come to expect from you (asking people if they are as simplistic as you and see the world in black and white absolutes). Do you mug old ladies? Just a question.

than they are on surface value, and see my agreement with Duned. Big Al's conclusion: David only sees things in black and white.

Here's my words of advice for you: eat shit and die.

Have you lost your binky?

In comment 13012665 David in LA said:

Quote:

than they are on surface value, and see my agreement with Duned. Big Al's conclusion: David only sees things in black and white. Here's my words of advice for you: eat shit and die.

I prefer corn on the cob.

In comment 13012612 Bill L said:

Quote:

I assume that they are not. I only know that I feel (and let me stress this as emphatically as possible...you do not have to feel the same way) as an individual, it's incumbent upon you to surmount them. If you give in to self-pity, even if God truly does hate you, you will paralyze yourself. So, to whatever extent you can, suck it up and deal with life. I don't think it's a particular horrible philosophy.

Bill L - for the most part I agree 100% with you BUT there have been... continues to be... and will most likely always be challenges that are not issues that can simply be 'sucked up' and be told to 'deal with'. THAT'S the issue. I shouldn't have to 'suck up' to being stopped because I happen to be driving a nice car or in a neighborhood that it's believed I shouldn't be in. I shouldn't have to 'suck up' to seeing young black men and women being treated unfairly... or worse gunned down needlessly. I could go on and on but I'm sure you've already heard everything I'm about to say before so I don't see the need to waste my breath.

And 'wasting breath' is exactly what I thought of when I see guys like Jessie Williams make speeches like the one he made at the BET awards. Why? Because his message isn't going to reach the people it's supposed to reach. Just like when (insert whoever you want here) has marches... puts out songs... or starts organizations that are supposed to stop black on black crime. It's a waste of time to me because you're not reaching the folks who NEED to be reached. Call me a cynic but to many times singular events like this speech happen... and for a few days, maybe a week or so... everyone feels uplifted and feel like 'maybe THIS will make the change we all want to happen happen!' and then a week later you hear about some young black kid being killed in the park because he's playing around with a toy gun. It's why I never wasted my time going to either of the 'Million Man Marches'. For what? He's going to stand up there... call for 'Atonement' and ask black men to be better fathers and stop killing each other... and lead everyone Kumbaya... and then those very same guys who just got finished singing are going to be right back out there in the streets robbin and stealin and not taking care of their kids.

I wasn't going to post on this thread... still not sure I want to hit 'Submit' yet as I type this... because I feel like I'm wasting my breath here as well. Not one person's mind is going to be changed by anything I have to say so I'm not sure why I'm wasting my breath here and now. All I will say is that unless you're living it, you'll never really understand the frustrations that black people go through in the country. Most of you will downplay it... ignore it... or believe that it doesn't exist... for whatever reasons you may have of your own. But there was a poster here (who doesn't post here much any more) who was married to a black woman and I remember him saying on here once that it wasn't until he saw what she experienced that he started to understand... and even still he said he doesn't COMPLETELY 'get it'... and I thought that was one of the more truthful and honest posts I've ever read on this site.

I've said it before and I'll say it again here... don't get it twisted... I readily admit that we as a race bring a bunch of our issues on ourselves. It pisses me off every time I see a video where a black man or woman is fighting a police officeR while being arrested and the people around them are yelling 'POLICE BRUTALITY!!!!'. Really?!!! So we have a lot of shit we need to work on ourselves. BUT, there's a lot of shit that we're being put through that's because of the color of our skin that we shouldn't be as well. To ignore that makes you part of the problem as well.

I apologize in advance for jumping in this thread and posting and probably not being to post again for a while (I AM at work after all)... but I just needed to get this off my chest.

Oh yeah... and with all due respect... that post from George in PA was downright silly and borderline insulting.

get a life. Your contribution here is a net zero. Why don't I just start a thread about Weber Grills, maybe you'll be preoccupied over there, since that's the extent of your actual good posts here.

In comment 13012682 David in LA said:

Quote:

get a life. Your contribution here is a net zero. Why don't I just start a thread about Weber Grills, maybe you'll be preoccupied over there, since that's the extent of your actual good posts here.

Your next good post will be your first.

In comment 13012650 David in LA said:

Quote:

I hope you have a humid ass summer.

OK, I laughed!

excellent post

In comment 13012686 PeterinAtlanta said:

Quote:

In comment 13012682 David in LA said: Quote: get a life. Your contribution here is a net zero. Why don't I just start a thread about Weber Grills, maybe you'll be preoccupied over there, since that's the extent of your actual good posts here. Your next good post will be your first.

That's entirely subjective, I rarely interact with you unless you come out of left field to derail a topic. Go post about BBQing.

In comment 13012679 T-Bone said:

Quote:

In comment 13012612 Bill L said: Quote: I assume that they are not. I only know that I feel (and let me stress this as emphatically as possible...you do not have to feel the same way) as an individual, it's incumbent upon you to surmount them. If you give in to self-pity, even if God truly does hate you, you will paralyze yourself. So, to whatever extent you can, suck it up and deal with life. I don't think it's a particular horrible philosophy. Bill L - for the most part I agree 100% with you BUT there have been... continues to be... and will most likely always be challenges that are not issues that can simply be 'sucked up' and be told to 'deal with'. THAT'S the issue. I shouldn't have to 'suck up' to being stopped because I happen to be driving a nice car or in a neighborhood that it's believed I shouldn't be in. I shouldn't have to 'suck up' to seeing young black men and women being treated unfairly... or worse gunned down needlessly. I could go on and on but I'm sure you've already heard everything I'm about to say before so I don't see the need to waste my breath. And 'wasting breath' is exactly what I thought of when I see guys like Jessie Williams make speeches like the one he made at the BET awards. Why? Because his message isn't going to reach the people it's supposed to reach. Just like when (insert whoever you want here) has marches... puts out songs... or starts organizations that are supposed to stop black on black crime. It's a waste of time to me because you're not reaching the folks who NEED to be reached. Call me a cynic but to many times singular events like this speech happen... and for a few days, maybe a week or so... everyone feels uplifted and feel like 'maybe THIS will make the change we all want to happen happen!' and then a week later you hear about some young black kid being killed in the park because he's playing around with a toy gun. It's why I never wasted my time going to either of the 'Million Man Marches'. For what? He's going to stand up there... call for 'Atonement' and ask black men to be better fathers and stop killing each other... and lead everyone Kumbaya... and then those very same guys who just got finished singing are going to be right back out there in the streets robbin and stealin and not taking care of their kids. I wasn't going to post on this thread... still not sure I want to hit 'Submit' yet as I type this... because I feel like I'm wasting my breath here as well. Not one person's mind is going to be changed by anything I have to say so I'm not sure why I'm wasting my breath here and now. All I will say is that unless you're living it, you'll never really understand the frustrations that black people go through in the country. Most of you will downplay it... ignore it... or believe that it doesn't exist... for whatever reasons you may have of your own. But there was a poster here (who doesn't post here much any more) who was married to a black woman and I remember him saying on here once that it wasn't until he saw what she experienced that he started to understand... and even still he said he doesn't COMPLETELY 'get it'... and I thought that was one of the more truthful and honest posts I've ever read on this site. I've said it before and I'll say it again here... don't get it twisted... I readily admit that we as a race bring a bunch of our issues on ourselves. It pisses me off every time I see a video where a black man or woman is fighting a police officeR while being arrested and the people around them are yelling 'POLICE BRUTALITY!!!!'. Really?!!! So we have a lot of shit we need to work on ourselves. BUT, there's a lot of shit that we're being put through that's because of the color of our skin that we shouldn't be as well. To ignore that makes you part of the problem as well. I apologize in advance for jumping in this thread and posting and probably not being to post again for a while (I AM at work after all)... but I just needed to get this off my chest. Oh yeah... and with all due respect... that post from George in PA was downright silly and borderline insulting.

i tend to agree with most of your post dork. I think I know who that poster is you are referring to is. Have not seen him post at all in awhile. I would think someone like that might a better understanding of what Black people go through but sometimes also see some of the paranoid thoughts this could lead to when the evidence of the situation does not always merit it.

Good read. I know you hesitate to comment on threads like these but your contributions are almost always some of the best.

The catch 22 in policing rough, usually predominately minority areas is this: it is very difficult to be effective without being aggressive, and it is very difficult to be aggressive without pissing off law-abiding people (and perhaps people with somewhat unsavory pasts but who aren't doing anything bad at the time). And if they're not effective, the ones who suffer will be the latter category (ordinary people just trying to get by). So walking that tightrope between being ineffective and brushing up against the rights and even just the dignity of ordinary people, it's a difficult job and one I certainly could not do.

It would probably be a huge help if we all just listened to T-Bone.

In comment 13012691 AP in Halfmoon said:

Quote:

excellent post

I agree. That was an awesome post T-Bone. I appreciate it.

For one thing, one problem is the overkill use of the word racism. I don't believe there are that many actual racists, people who believe in the supremacy of their own race and hatred of other races. What gets tarred as racism today is quite often prejudice. They're not the same thing. Prejudice is about stereotypes, basically, stereotypes that influence how we view groups as a whole without really influencing real interpersonal relationships. While there are rather few racists, almost everyone of any race has prejudices to some degree or another. In contemporary American society, just about the most damaging thing you can accuse someone of is racism, and thus throwing the word around indiscriminately causes people to get their backs up. Call everything racism, and the term loses its meaning without losing its damaging nature.

The "privilege" stuff that lefties love to use lately fits that bill too. How privileged is the white kid from Bumfuck, Kentucky, who has never met his father and lives with his alcoholic mother and meth addict siblings in a double wide? Not to say that, to use a trite golf analogy, that minorities often are playing with a higher handicap than whites, but yammering on about how privileged all white people are as if they're all a bunch of monocle wearing Rockefellers is needlessly antagonistic. Shit, my grandmother grew up dirt poor, the daughter of a Georgia sharecropper (yes, there were white sharecroppers). Her little sister died for completely unknown reasons - I've got a copy of the death certificate that I discovered doing some family tree research. The cause of death is simply listed as "no attending physician", since they lived in the middle of nowhere and had no money to pay a doctor anyway.

Now, growing up in 1920s and 1930s Georgia, was she in a better position than an equally poor black child? Absolutely. I still wouldn't call that privilege by any stretch of the imagination.

The whole thread so forgive me please but are we speaking about Brad Pitt being offended that he didn't get Best Actor award at the BET Awards Program ?

Perhaps the value of your posts is that they require one to think. My typical response to a lot of posts is to mutter "Twaddle" under my breath and move on. Even when I might disagree, your posts require analysis and review of my own positions. I might still disagree, but I've been thoughtfully challenged.

Good post. When you control for Money, racial issues tend to disappear. Are their glass ceilings? At times but the color of ones skin is not as important as wealth.

So when you "control" for money, being stopped for driving a BMW while black is really prejudice and not racism?

No opportunity in life.

Yes that is prejudiced. It is also black cops that do the same thing in those neighborhoods. It is profiling.

First off, thank you to everyone for the kind words regarding my post. As Dunedin said, sometimes I'm a lil hesitant to comment on these threads because I feel that most times very few people are going to actually READ what I'm saying and will draw their own conclusions and I can't stand that. I'm like 'How could you confuse what I'm saying when it's right there IN PRINT?'. But I appreciate the positive feedback.

Big Dork.. er Al - " I would think someone like that might a better understanding of what Black people go through but sometimes also see some of the paranoid thoughts this could lead to when the evidence of the situation does not always merit it."

I'm sure you do know who I'm referring to and I miss his posts. We both actually know yet another person who's in the same 'situation' as well don't we? Which makes what you said above all the more true. I'm just glad you inserted the word 'sometimes' in your post because sometimes that 'paranoia' does have some merit.

Dunedin81 - Excellent post and I agree 100%. It IS a tightrope that law enforcement have to walk every day and I too am not sure I could do it. It really pisses me off that some of us (referring to black people) think that we can act any kind of way we want with regards to law enforcement but the moment they respond back in kind... in most cases because they have to for their own safety... some of us start yelling 'Brutality! Brutality!'. I'm like 'If you'd just stop acting up and let the cop arrest you, you wouldn't have a broken jaw now would you?'. Now... with that said... there are times when having your jaw broken was NOT warranted... and it's those times that Mr. Williams was addressing in his speech. Thing is though, some people can't or won't accept that those things can and do happen and in some cases and areas it's disproportionately happening against minorities. Some can accept that... but many don't or won't. But cops do have it tough out here... no doubt about that.

Greg - what I think you're missing when it comes to discussing 'white privilege' is that even the 'white kid from Bumfuck, Kentucky, who has never met his father and lives with his alcoholic mother and meth addict siblings in a double wide' STILL can enjoy certain... advantages (I'll call them)... than a minority kid in the same economic state. I do see your point and I'm still wondering just how much I'm choosing to believe in that phrase 'white privilege' myself, to be honest. But when you have a black kid get double the amount of time for the same offense as a white kid who did the exact same thing... I believe that's what they're referring to when they say white people enjoy 'white privilege'. 'Privilege' doesn't have to only refer monetary or economic state that two separate individuals (one of black and one of white race) enjoy.

I agree with your first paragraph completely by the way.

as usual, if only your fantasy football skills were as developed as your perspective you might go places.

Between similarly situated folks sure, there are indignities that poor white men endure less frequently (though white people driving beaters are apt to get pulled over more frequently too). Though I would point out that an African American student arriving at a school is likely to find scholarship programs open to him and support systems that specifically aim at minority students, while the poor white kid who arrives is not viewed by the school any differently than the affluent suburbanite because superficially they look the same.

But I still stand by my point that rural poverty looks like rural poverty, regardless of color, and urban poverty looks like urban poverty, regardless of color. The vices are similar, the statistics on social ills (illegitimacy, domestic violence, substance abuse) are similar. Experiences vary by ascriptive characteristic, but the variance is much greater across income levels.

In comment 13013082 Dunedin81 said:

Quote:

Between similarly situated folks sure, there are indignities that poor white men endure less frequently (though white people driving beaters are apt to get pulled over more frequently too). Though I would point out that an African American student arriving at a school is likely to find scholarship programs open to him and support systems that specifically aim at minority students, while the poor white kid who arrives is not viewed by the school any differently than the affluent suburbanite because superficially they look the same.

Of course the caveat to this point is the fact that although poor black kids may have more opportunities to subsidize their education than similarly poor white kids, non-educated whites are still twice as likely to gain employment than non-educated blacks. For blacks, a subsidized education is an equalizer not an advantage.