With the European market crashing, the pound losing massive value overnight, many people not fully understanding what the EU was, and the millions of dollars it's going to cost to leave the EU, do you think the United Kingdom would vote to leave if they voted again today?
Personally I think they have some buyer remorse, but they realize the consequences are short term right now.
I see more country leaving the EU
IMO, from the Brits I know - most of whom wanted out (ironic since they all work in finance, which seems like it would be the most affected) - none of this is coming as any surprise, but they do believe it's going to be temporary as a hysterical overreaction of the market.
But the EU was never an economic project, it was a political project that used economic levers. And this is really too bad, because UK basically indicated last week that they don't want to be part of the project of European unification, and that they don't want to be part of the European family. Too bad, because the project seems to have been working pretty well over the last six-seven decades.
And it's also too bad because everyone would consider the UK one of Europe's big brothers (along with Frane and Germany), so it is only proper that they should be a leader in this project, especially after all the drama over joining the European Community in the 1960s. Even Margaret Thatcher accepted Britain's leadership role in the inevitable EU and the European family, even as she pushed back against Brussels and the hard-core Federalists. So it's really a shame, I think.
So the bottom line is that they are in a very good position to keep the parts they like and jettison the rest, so it may work out very well for them.
However, as mentioned, the EU imo is a political/ideological project. Based on this, the political/ideological statement that Britain made in their vote is sad.
So the bottom line is that they are in a very good position to keep the parts they like and jettison the rest, so it may work out very well for them.
EU may push back very hard on an ala carte approach. Sounds like some in the EU want this to hurt. They dont want to give anyone else any bright ideas.
These people generally don't have money in the stock market and the pound falling will make British exports cheaper and stimulate production.
I was surprised that they didn't have a minimum percentage criteria to meet. Seems it was way too close to call to make such a huge statement.
Bingo.
And right now Britain's "allies" at the FED, ECB and the Treasury of the US and EU nations are dumping the shit out of every GBP asset they can to punish their "friend".
Wave in GBP assets and while this is happening, look like a star portfolio manager at year end.
EU may push back very hard on an ala carte approach. Sounds like some in the EU want this to hurt.
That's a little like hitting yourself over the head with a 2x4 because it feels good when you stop. That's not to say they won't do it.
These people generally don't have money in the stock market and the pound falling will make British exports cheaper and stimulate production.
I'm welcome to the idea that the strictly "old vs young" narrative isn't what actually happened. But surely there are working class people in London and Scotland too right? It is interesting how they break down the demographics on what area voted what. For example - areas with high immigration voted to remain. Which could possible mean those with likely the most experience with immigrants are pro EU. Those without that level of interaction with immigrants likely were anti - EU. People fear change.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-how-the-results-compare-to-the-uks-educated-old-an/ - ( New Window )
If there is domestic inflation as Sterling falls, then it would be Prediction:Pain.
Norway–European Union relations - ( New Window )
I wonder when we might see a time where people take political claims with a grain of salt and engage in critical thinking before making huge impactful decisions.
I'm going to guess never....
Roughly 1000 people in a nation of 60+ million is more meme-worthy than argument-worthy.
So yeah, remain would win in a landslide if it happened again.
So yeah, remain would win in a landslide if it happened again.
It's also possible that some of the Remains would be sufficiently offended by the attempt to hold another fucking referendum because the powers that be didn't get the answer they wanted the first time and would vote to Leave.
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It would be overwhelmingly in favor of remaining. A lot of younger voters who would have voted to remain just didn't vote (sounds familiar) and they would in a second round of voting. Not to mention all of the people who are pining for a second vote... it's up to what, 3 million now? If even a chunk of those millions would be new voters, that would sway things even more. Plus the people who are caught up in the aftermath of this and seeing how the markets are reacting to it. They would vote to remain thinking it might fix things. Then you have numerous people coming out and admitting they didn't know all of this would happen just because they voted to leave. That they just got caught up in it and thought it wouldn't be that big of a deal (lol)
So yeah, remain would win in a landslide if it happened again.
It's also possible that some of the Remains would be sufficiently offended by the attempt to hold another fucking referendum because the powers that be didn't get the answer they wanted the first time and would vote to Leave.
Scott Walker agrees
I suspect like most things, in the long run this will be just another thing...
and enriching themselves. They want to take
back their countries, trade,jobs, safety, sovereignty and culture. Seems to cover it.
I would argue those
that want the EU might not understand the consequences,
or are 1% types. How in the world can anyone agree with
a bunch of political bureaucrats in Belgium that are not elected by a given countries people making laws that directly affect them?
and enriching themselves. They want to take
back their countries, trade,jobs, safety, sovereignty and culture. Seems to cover it.
I would argue those
that want the EU might not understand the consequences,
or are 1% types. How in the world can anyone agree with
a bunch of political bureaucrats in Belgium that are not elected by a given countries people making laws that directly affect them?
The counter argument is that the EU, and various other global unions or organizations in that vein in theory promote unity, similar rules and regulations over large areas, and improved relations. In practice that may not always be the case but your argument above has some holes too.
How is centralizing power in Belgium worse than centralizing it in London? The guy in some shitty rural town out in the boonies of the U.K. should secede since some fat cat in London is in government? The argument above just boils down to fiefdoms for all. You could take this tangent a few steps further and advocate the elimination of all governments and global bodies.
God damn UN and global treaties treading on my self-given rights....
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the global elite selling them down the river
and enriching themselves. They want to take
back their countries, trade,jobs, safety, sovereignty and culture. Seems to cover it.
I would argue those
that want the EU might not understand the consequences,
or are 1% types. How in the world can anyone agree with
a bunch of political bureaucrats in Belgium that are not elected by a given countries people making laws that directly affect them?
The counter argument is that the EU, and various other global unions or organizations in that vein in theory promote unity, similar rules and regulations over large areas, and improved relations. In practice that may not always be the case but your argument above has some holes too.
How is centralizing power in Belgium worse than centralizing it in London? The guy in some shitty rural town out in the boonies of the U.K. should secede since some fat cat in London is in government? The argument above just boils down to fiefdoms for all. You could take this tangent a few steps further and advocate the elimination of all governments and global bodies.
God damn UN and global treaties treading on my self-given rights....
NWO sucks
I think people dismissing those that voted to Leave as uneducated or out of touch rubes clinging to their past don't do themselves any favors.
I think people dismissing those that voted to Leave as uneducated or out of touch rubes clinging to their past don't do themselves any favors.
There's also the fact that the person doing the screwing in Brussels is one further step removed from the screwee than the person in London. One step further away from accountability.
I think people dismissing those that voted to Leave as uneducated or out of touch rubes clinging to their past don't do themselves any favors.
I have no horse in this race. Doesn't really affect me either way. I do agree with you on all points above. In this case it's possible the guy outside of London fucked the guy in Scotland out of something he may want. I think the history the scots have with England is not a benefit to the English.
Everyone, myself included has simplified this complicated situation into a viewpoint they can easily articulate and argue. Even the voters - Leave vs remain??? Those really aren't the only 2 options here. They were never in the EU, and I think a massive majority want major access to, travel in, and benefits of the EU. This majority IMO also want sovereignty and a whole host of other things. Just my two cents. Everyone wants their cake and to it too. There were repercussions either way, no option was going to lead to absolute destruction or pure utopia.
I am impressed that you can speak intelligently to the quality of life, sentiment and future prospects for people 3,000 miles away. How elite of you....
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the global elite selling them down the river
and enriching themselves. They want to take
back their countries, trade,jobs, safety, sovereignty and culture. Seems to cover it.
I would argue those
that want the EU might not understand the consequences,
or are 1% types. How in the world can anyone agree with
a bunch of political bureaucrats in Belgium that are not elected by a given countries people making laws that directly affect them?
The counter argument is that the EU, and various other global unions or organizations in that vein in theory promote unity, similar rules and regulations over large areas, and improved relations. In practice that may not always be the case but your argument above has some holes too.
How is centralizing power in Belgium worse than centralizing it in London? The guy in some shitty rural town out in the boonies of the U.K. should secede since some fat cat in London is in government? The argument above just boils down to fiefdoms for all. You could take this tangent a few steps further and advocate the elimination of all governments and global bodies.
God damn UN and global treaties treading on my self-given rights....
Going a little over the top their Patrick?
Actually we should move the home around the world every 20 years or so that it would be an actual world wide organization and other cultures experience the privilege of having that world organization on their soil.
Hell, We do it with sporting events. Wouldn't you think this would be a little more prestigious?
Think of the advantages of having the UN stationed, oh lets say in Syria right now.
Think the middle east would have a different look?
If the entire argument espoused is that government should be located in the physical world close to the people then the only close to acceptable form of government would be your local town council or everyone having their personal fiefdom.
If the entire argument espoused is that government should be located in the physical world close to the people then the only close to acceptable form of government would be your local town council or everyone having their personal fiefdom.
Sounds eerily similar to a country having local state and federal rule with the local doing the best for their area as they know the best for their citizens,the state for their particular state, and the federal overseeing national needs.
Sure wish someone would have thought about that a couple centuries ago.
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Just like you putting the UN in Syria. No different.
If the entire argument espoused is that government should be located in the physical world close to the people then the only close to acceptable form of government would be your local town council or everyone having their personal fiefdom.
Sounds eerily similar to a country having local state and federal rule with the local doing the best for their area as they know the best for their citizens,the state for their particular state, and the federal overseeing national needs.
Sure wish someone would have thought about that a couple centuries ago.
Your Team 'Murica post aside...
At what point did the EU start to tread on local UK government rights and responsibilities?
So the bottom line is that they are in a very good position to keep the parts they like and jettison the rest, so it may work out very well for them.
England isn't in a good position to dictate the terms of their exit. The EU holds all the cards at that table and by all indication they mean for England to pay dearly.
Since the EU is run from Belgium? The government now becomes the local and trickles down. Not that hard to understand.
Now we know why the leave won.
Your world societal views is the main reason. Everyone wants to be from somewhere.
By the way, I would have more than likely voted to stay.
Should this vote have required a supermajority (I'm not sure if UK elections ever require such a thing)? Or maybe at least 60%?
The British tabloids and papers were overwhelmingly LEAVE.
IDN
Longer this goes on, looks like the stay crowd is panicking.
It seems more and more obvious.
It'll be a while before anything happens whether it a revote or whatever.
That it would be a gradual severance will play into the leave crowd's favor.
Never as dire one way or the other.
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that the remain vote would win by a big margin. All those leaders would were staunchly for Britex are now speaking in subdued tones and walking back some of their pronouncements.
IDN
Longer this goes on, looks like the stay crowd is panicking.
It seems more and more obvious.
It'll be a while before anything happens whether it a revote or whatever.
That it would be a gradual severance will play into the leave crowd's favor.
Never as dire one way or the other.
That's the thing, both France and Germany want England out post haste. France and Germany plainly state that they don't want this thing dragging out. In the long term England will be all right. However, the short to intermediate term England will be worse off for leaving the EU.