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12 years later, the details of Eli/ Chargers, comes out?

Big Blue '56 : 6/28/2016 8:18 am
Quote:



Although Archie has long been viewed as one of the main instigators in Eli's decision, he recently disputed that notion. In an interview with the Rich Eisen Show, Archie said he had nothing to do with Eli's threat to sit out the season if the Chargers drafted him.

"It was a decision that Eli and Tom Condon kind of made, but Eli ultimately pulled the trigger on that and that's what he, doing his due diligence, decided to do," Archie Manning said. "I can't say it was pleasant from our end. Most people thought I orchestrated it, but I didn't. I don't tell my kids what to do or make their decisions."

In Archie's version of the story, Eli came to him for advice, but never asked him directly what he should do.

"It's a tough deal. It's hard. That was the only thing I told Eli when he told me he was going to do that," Archie said. "Think about it hard. If that's your conviction and what you want to do, then that's fine, and that's what he did



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Don't know if true  
LTPS5611 : 6/28/2016 8:25 am : link
But I once heard something similar to the bottom of the article that he didn't like how the Leaf situation went. Leaf told Peyton how bad it was there and that was one of the reasons.
some family serving  
ColHowPepper : 6/28/2016 8:44 am : link
revisionist history? As Doc queries, it took 12 years for Archie to acquit himself (as orchestrator for his son) and Eli (as relying on his daddy for what to do)?
RE: some family serving  
Big Blue '56 : 6/28/2016 9:15 am : link
In comment 13012102 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
revisionist history? As Doc queries, it took 12 years for Archie to acquit himself (as orchestrator for his son) and Eli (as relying on his daddy for what to do)?


Especially given Archie's reputation for being straight forward
who really cares now?  
BCD : 6/28/2016 9:41 am : link
....
RE: some family serving  
montanagiant : 6/28/2016 10:19 am : link
In comment 13012102 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
revisionist history? As Doc queries, it took 12 years for Archie to acquit himself (as orchestrator for his son) and Eli (as relying on his daddy for what to do)?

Why wouldn't a 21 year old about to sign a multi-million dollar contract get advice from his father who once played in the same league?
RE: who really cares now?  
Big Blue '56 : 6/28/2016 10:19 am : link
In comment 13012170 BCD said:
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....


In the scheme of things? Zero..But I always wondered what might have gone down irrespective of the rumors
RE: who really cares now?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/28/2016 10:20 am : link
In comment 13012170 BCD said:
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....


Sour charger fans.
RE: RE: who really cares now?  
Big Blue '56 : 6/28/2016 10:21 am : link
In comment 13012228 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 13012170 BCD said:


Quote:


....



Sour charger fans.


😜
RE: RE: some family serving  
ron mexico : 6/28/2016 10:23 am : link
In comment 13012223 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 13012102 ColHowPepper said:


Quote:


revisionist history? As Doc queries, it took 12 years for Archie to acquit himself (as orchestrator for his son) and Eli (as relying on his daddy for what to do)?


Why wouldn't a 21 year old about to sign a multi-million dollar contract get advice from his father who once played in the same league?


Of course he would.

But the story was always that archie was pulling all the strings, not just acting in a fatherly advisory capacity
I can see Eli listening to Archie's advice  
AP in Halfmoon : 6/28/2016 10:27 am : link
but the idea of Archie being a puppet master is silly. Give Eli some credit here, he's not exactly a moron.
I believe Condon is or was Brees' agent, too.  
bceagle05 : 6/28/2016 10:30 am : link
No way he wanted two star clients competing against each other for a starting job. I'm guessing Condon had as much to do with it as anyone.
.  
Go Terps : 6/28/2016 10:30 am : link
I always thought it was stupid that anyone gave Eli shit for that. Refusing to report to the team that drafts you is the right of any player, and it's a move done at great risk (a year of your career).

What he (and of course Elway) showed is that drafted players have a lot more leverage than people think. It was a brilliant move that I'm surprised players don't do more often.
I think it's pretty simple  
Old Dirty Beckham : 6/28/2016 10:33 am : link
if you're the QB (and a good one) of the NY Giants you're at the top of the NFL food chain.
I have to believe it was all Condon  
Milton : 6/28/2016 10:36 am : link
AJ Smith was a rookie GM and it was believed that Schottenheimer wouldn't be there much longer. There was too much uncertainty within the organization.
RE: RE: some family serving  
Jim in Tampa : 6/28/2016 10:37 am : link
In comment 13012139 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13012102 ColHowPepper said:


Quote:


revisionist history? As Doc queries, it took 12 years for Archie to acquit himself (as orchestrator for his son) and Eli (as relying on his daddy for what to do)?



Especially given Archie's reputation for being straight forward


I doubt that this is revisionist history. It likely has more to do with a father protecting his then young son.

Think about it. If it went down exactly as Archie said and it was all Eli's idea...but the press interpreted it as "Archie pulling the strings" what would a father do?

Would Archie take a bullet to deflect some of the criticism away from Eli or would he throw Eli under the bus and tell everyone that it was all his son's idea?

I'm guessing that most fathers would take some heat for their boy.

Years later when Eli has 2 Super Bowl MVPs and 2 rings and most people don't care about the story...then Archie is asked a direct question and sets the story straight.

To me that seems like the most plausible scenario.
RE: some family serving  
djm : 6/28/2016 10:41 am : link
In comment 13012102 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
revisionist history? As Doc queries, it took 12 years for Archie to acquit himself (as orchestrator for his son) and Eli (as relying on his daddy for what to do)?


I don't remember Archie ever saying he was behind Eli's tactics in 2004. Matter of fact no one ever really said much of anything other than NO to San Diego.

I still don't understand the controversy. If you're a good enough player you can in fact dictate things and manipulate the draft process. You the player take on all the risk. If it blows up the player suffers the consequences yet fans get all whiny about players distrubing some sort of hollowed and holy process. it's anything but. It's a meat market.
RE: RE: RE: some family serving  
djm : 6/28/2016 10:41 am : link
In comment 13012235 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 13012223 montanagiant said:


Quote:


In comment 13012102 ColHowPepper said:


Quote:


revisionist history? As Doc queries, it took 12 years for Archie to acquit himself (as orchestrator for his son) and Eli (as relying on his daddy for what to do)?


Why wouldn't a 21 year old about to sign a multi-million dollar contract get advice from his father who once played in the same league?



Of course he would.

But the story was always that archie was pulling all the strings, not just acting in a fatherly advisory capacity


That's just it. IT was a story. Archie never ever said he told Eli to do anything.

Don't believe everything you read in the papers.
RE: who really cares now?  
Kulish29 : 6/28/2016 10:50 am : link
In comment 13012170 BCD said:
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Don Banks.
archie  
sshin05 : 6/28/2016 10:56 am : link
never meddled with his kids careers or told them to follow his footsteps into football. He even said this in the past. So i can't imagine him suddenly jumping a unique situation just to help his son make a decision. So the narrative of Archie orchestrating this doesn't make sense.
RE: who really cares now?  
Vin R : 6/28/2016 11:09 am : link
In comment 13012170 BCD said:
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....


Tom Brady.
In the end  
mrvax : 6/28/2016 11:11 am : link
the trade worked out well for the Giants and Chargers. Both QB ended up where they naturally belong. Had no trade happened, I think neither would have had quite the career they had.

Glad to hear Archie just gave advice/opinion and did not tell Eli what to do. This also makes more sense knowing what we do about both Archie & Eli.
And then there's always the other angle.  
Mike in Long Beach : 6/28/2016 11:27 am : link
What the hell would've happened if we went with Roethlisberger.

Crazy year.
Was Eli wrong?  
djstat : 6/28/2016 11:34 am : link
No.

Drew Brees was in San Diego and has always had ties to the Mannings.

AJ Smith the GM, ran off Marty Schottenheimer after going 14-2 in 2006.

The team has wasted the prime of Rivers with a coach like Norv Turner.

It may not have been popular but good for Eli.
there is a middle ground  
fkap : 6/28/2016 11:53 am : link
between Archie being a Machiavellian puppet master and his being simply a father responding when a son asked for advice.
RE: I believe Condon is or was Brees' agent, too.  
Mason : 6/28/2016 12:02 pm : link
In comment 13012248 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
No way he wanted two star clients competing against each other for a starting job. I'm guessing Condon had as much to do with it as anyone.


I always thought it was acknowledged that it was all Condon based on his history with the Chargers. Which the SD media knew was bad but they were trying to put pressure on Eli to not listen to his agent.
RE: Was Eli wrong?  
Big Blue '56 : 6/28/2016 12:31 pm : link
In comment 13012337 djstat said:
Quote:
No.

Drew Brees was in San Diego and has always had ties to the Mannings.

AJ Smith the GM, ran off Marty Schottenheimer after going 14-2 in 2006.

The team has wasted the prime of Rivers with a coach like Norv Turner.

It may not have been popular but good for Eli.


Btw, save for egregious conduct, has there ever been a HC who was fired after he went 14-2, even if he wasn't on the best of terms with the GM?
RE: And then there's always the other angle.  
mrvax : 6/28/2016 1:24 pm : link
In comment 13012328 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:
What the hell would've happened if we went with Roethlisberger.

Crazy year.


Mike, after a small trade down, that was my pick in 2004. I figured Collins would stay 1-2 years to let Roethlisberger develop. I really liked the fact Roethlisberger had been labeled as having a strong arm. Did not want Rivers at all and was very angry when the Giants drafted him. Rivers was supposed to have very short range. No good for a windy home stadium.
Who cares?  
JerseyCityJoe : 6/28/2016 1:44 pm : link
San Diego Charger fans sure do. I have come across a bunch of them over the years and they just hate Eli. Just 2 years ago I was in Cabo met a bunch of Chargers fans there and they all gave me shit about Eli. I just laughed and told them they got to let it go. They won't though.
RE: I believe Condon is or was Brees' agent, too.  
giantgiantfan : 6/28/2016 3:30 pm : link
In comment 13012248 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
No way he wanted two star clients competing against each other for a starting job. I'm guessing Condon had as much to do with it as anyone.


If true, good call.
RE: .  
chopperhatch : 6/28/2016 4:45 pm : link
In comment 13012249 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I always thought it was stupid that anyone gave Eli shit for that. Refusing to report to the team that drafts you is the right of any player, and it's a move done at great risk (a year of your career).

What he (and of course Elway) showed is that drafted players have a lot more leverage than people think. It was a brilliant move that I'm surprised players don't do more often.


To be fair Terps, Eli was never going to lose a year of his career. Ever. Sure, with Elway being drafted by the Yankees and having the option to play baseball and Jim Kelly having the USFL as fall backs, the drafting team could call their bluff. But no way a team is ready to draft a player like Eli who doesn't want to play there and get nothing in return. Yea, they might get the other team's 1st rounder the next year (which is what they got and then some...but that pick turned into Shawn Merriman), but a Manning? The Chargers parlayed that very nicely and it was the right move.
RE: RE: who really cares now?  
NINEster : 6/28/2016 4:53 pm : link
In comment 13012300 Vin R said:
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In comment 13012170 BCD said:


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....



Tom Brady.


By your logic Eli would have kept Brady out of every Super Bowl since 2004.

RE: Who cares?  
NINEster : 6/28/2016 4:59 pm : link
In comment 13012627 JerseyCityJoe said:
Quote:
San Diego Charger fans sure do. I have come across a bunch of them over the years and they just hate Eli. Just 2 years ago I was in Cabo met a bunch of Chargers fans there and they all gave me shit about Eli. I just laughed and told them they got to let it go. They won't though.


I don't buy it.

They probably hate him out of the disrespect of his actions, not so much that Eli Manning would have given them championships that Philip Rivers hasn't.

RE: RE: .  
Go Terps : 6/28/2016 6:13 pm : link
In comment 13012935 chopperhatch said:
Quote:
In comment 13012249 Go Terps said:


Quote:


I always thought it was stupid that anyone gave Eli shit for that. Refusing to report to the team that drafts you is the right of any player, and it's a move done at great risk (a year of your career).

What he (and of course Elway) showed is that drafted players have a lot more leverage than people think. It was a brilliant move that I'm surprised players don't do more often.



To be fair Terps, Eli was never going to lose a year of his career. Ever. Sure, with Elway being drafted by the Yankees and having the option to play baseball and Jim Kelly having the USFL as fall backs, the drafting team could call their bluff. But no way a team is ready to draft a player like Eli who doesn't want to play there and get nothing in return. Yea, they might get the other team's 1st rounder the next year (which is what they got and then some...but that pick turned into Shawn Merriman), but a Manning? The Chargers parlayed that very nicely and it was the right move.


I agree, I'm sure there was zero chance of Eli actually losing a year. But that only added to his leverage and made his move make more sense.

If I were Andrew Luck there is no way in hell I would have gone to Indy. Absolutely no way.

But I'm sure there are behind the scenes dealings with the NFL, who would be hugely embarrassed if this were a common element in their draft process.
NINEster your correct.  
JerseyCityJoe : 6/28/2016 6:14 pm : link
They believe that they got the far better end of the the deal. However, Eli rejecting them still has them bitter. Even after all these years. That was my main point.
I don't blame Eli one bit.  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 6/28/2016 6:22 pm : link
He saw what happened to his old man. The Chargers were a laughingstock.
RE: NINEster your correct.  
ctc in ftmyers : 6/28/2016 6:29 pm : link
In comment 13013050 JerseyCityJoe said:
Quote:
They believe that they got the far better end of the the deal. However, Eli rejecting them still has them bitter. Even after all these years. That was my main point.


Who is "them" fans?

Who gives a crap?
Eli wanted to be a Giant.....  
Dry Lightning : 6/28/2016 7:35 pm : link
He was born to be a Giant. He made sure it happened. I will always be grateful.
I don't think Rivers would ever admit it...  
EricJ : 6/28/2016 7:42 pm : link
but he probably feels like he wishes he could play somewhere else. They will never win a championship and it will not be his fault either.
Didn't Condon  
fkap : 6/29/2016 9:05 am : link
already get his money off Brees? wouldn't he want a competition so one of them (likely Brees) gets sent away to someplace where Condon can work up a new deal and make more money?

It was pretty obvious at that point that be it Rivers or Eli, Brees was the odd man out? there may be reasons Condon wanted to avoid Eli going to SD, but I doubt competition was one of them.

My take was that SD wanted a trade, and taking Eli was the way to force it. If they wanted Eli, they would have kept him, and he would have played or lost a lot of money. SD had Brees as a fall back (although I don't think they trusted his injury) if Eli wouldn't sign. They wanted Rivers AND a few more draft picks. and they got them. Giants wanted Eli, and ultimately caved in giving up the draft picks to get him. What Eli wanted didn't much matter.
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