NFT: NFT: Jersey Drivers- price of gasoline just went up

and the roads and infrastructure in NJ are falling apart as a result. This was long overdue.

Property taxes are ridiculously high and zoning boards are an outright scandal but those are separate issues.

It's expensive to live in NJ for a reason - it's a great state to live in. The Northern half of the state is within easy commuting distance to one of the world's great cities. The expensive areas of the state are incredibly safe with some of the best schools in the country. It's easily one of the best places in the country to raise children. While real estate is expensive in many areas you still get tremendous value when compared to NYC - for around $1 million you can own a small mansion in a great area vs. a 2BD apt in Manhattan or the nicer areas of Brooklyn. And if you live in the Southern part of the state you can get an amazing home for around half that amount.

It's probably a pretty terrible place to retire, but that's because it's a great place to raise kids and the two are pretty incompatible due to school costs, etc. If it was really a terrible place to live people would be leaving en mass and real estate prices would be collapsing - but that is not the case.

the cost for goods and services will also go up. Anything trucked through the state, landscapers, delivery services...

In comment 13012529 Bubba said:

Quote:

the cost for goods and services will also go up. Anything trucked through the state, landscapers, delivery services...

Did the cost of those items go down at all when the price of gas dropped in half 18 months ago?

kept punting on raising the gas tax for years, instead just increasing the amount they could borrow for transportation funds. So here we are with a 23-cent increase per gallon (which I believe would increase with rising gas costs) effected at once because the State seemingly has no interest in combating the cronyism involved with astronomical construction costs in the state.

In comment 13012528 Tesla said:

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If it was really a terrible place to live people would be leaving en mass

Well, since you mentioned it...

.

an aging population being one of them. People don't retire in SC and move to NY

Not that I am aware of. Do you know?

In Monmouth County where I used to work the population growth rate has completely stagnated, and the population has skewed much older as a result. The government there is extremely concerned over the future prospect of significant economic shrinkage, large stock of emptying age restricted housing, empty McMansions, etc.

In NJ the trends seem to point to a population influx back into the urbanized areas away from the suburbs.

In comment 13012684 Go Terps said:

Quote:

In Monmouth County where I used to work the population growth rate has completely stagnated, and the population has skewed much older as a result. The government there is extremely concerned over the future prospect of significant economic shrinkage, large stock of emptying age restricted housing, empty McMansions, etc. In NJ the trends seem to point to a population influx back into the urbanized areas away from the suburbs.

The shore as a whole is seeing a complete population shift, as long-time residents in the coastal towns have either not returned to their homes after Sandy or they have been bought out for summer homes.

In comment 13012263 Go Terps said:

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and I've already decided I'll never live in the NJ/NYC area again. There's a lot that I miss and like about the area, but it's blood from a stone there. And the crumbling infrastructure isn't going to help the ridiculous traffic.

Where in OR? I grew up in Portland and we are looking at Bend or Eugene in the next couple of years. Pacific Northwest is the most beautiful part of the country, imho.

In comment 13012696 Modus Operandi said:

Quote:

In comment 13012263 Go Terps said: Quote: and I've already decided I'll never live in the NJ/NYC area again. There's a lot that I miss and like about the area, but it's blood from a stone there. And the crumbling infrastructure isn't going to help the ridiculous traffic. Where in OR? I grew up in Portland and we are looking at Bend or Eugene in the next couple of years. Pacific Northwest is the most beautiful part of the country, imho.

I landed a good gig in Salem, and live there. Definitely an up and coming place with a lot of development taking place, young population, etc. Give breweries in town doesn't hurt either. It's only been a few weeks bit I really like it.

I'll be visiting Eugene in a few weeks for work, and I plan on checking out Bend in a couple weekends on my way to see Crater Lake. I agree... This area is amazing.

.

2000 population was 8,414,350

2010 population = 8,791,894

2015 population - 8,958,013

There has been a general move from colder states to warmer states in the last few decades - likely due to the increased use of air conditioning - but despite that NJ's population continues to grow. So there is no great movement away from the state.

The population is growing just about everywhere in the US. The question is probably the growth rate versus that of other states.

Then within that there are questions about the different cohorts within that growth. Age, income, etc.

Like I said before my impressions of NJ are that the urbanized areas (basically within a 15 mile or so radius of NYC) will continue to grow but the suburbs are in real trouble.

like Yogi Berra used to say, "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."

Also, people are leaving NYC and Chicago areas to some degree because the IT revolution has unchained people from living in a few dense population centers for certain industries. My job doesnt really require me to be in NYC, yet here I am, paying more for a 1 bedroom than I'd have to pay for 4000 sq. ft. in most of the country.

Also, dont want to get into a maker and taker argument, but states like NJ are subsidizing states like SC. Even worse, a number of sunbelt states are not only taking tax transfers from richer states (via federal spending and matching funds), but they're then turning around and offering special tax abatement to lure companies out of the richer states that are subsidizing them. It's kind of unfair.

In comment 13012741 Deej said:

Quote:

Also, dont want to get into a maker and taker argument, but states like NJ are subsidizing states like SC. Even worse, a number of sunbelt states are not only taking tax transfers from richer states (via federal spending and matching funds), but they're then turning around and offering special tax abatement to lure companies out of the richer states that are subsidizing them. It's kind of unfair.

States in all sections of the country are offering tax abatements to encourage companies to locate there. NY and NJ included

New York and New Jersey are growing by < 2% annually - bottom 30% - right about on oar with the mean fertility rate. In fact, most of the NE and Mid Atlantic is growing at a slower rate than other parts of the country.

Fastest growing regions seem to be the rocky Mountain regions and North Dakota (economic boom), followed by the SE and Pacific states.

So it seems the traditional migrations to big cities (NY, CHI) are no longer the case.

I believe that's the case, anyway.

In comment 13012758 Greg from LI said:

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I believe that's the case, anyway.

Oh, I forgot, "those" people don't count. My bad.

housing plays a large role. We're shopping for a place in NC that will be our permanent residence at some point. The pricing is unbelievable compared to Saratoga County.

Upstate NY can be a bitch for taxes, etc but it's a great place to raise and educate kids. We bailed on TX when my oldest was starting kindergarten.

BTW, I'm not bashing southern schools just speaking from personal preference. I know there are many good schools south of the mason dixon line.

In comment 13012761 Tesla said:

Quote:

In comment 13012758 Greg from LI said: Quote: I believe that's the case, anyway. Oh, I forgot, "those" people don't count. My bad.

Greg doesn't need me to defend him, but I don't believe that's what he said. Carry on.

What was the purpose of stating that most of the incoming population to NJ are immigrants? Other than pointing out that all the....ahem..."non" immigrants are fleeing the state their rented United Vans.

What is the relevance?

there's no reason to stay and pay the high property taxes once you're an empty nester. I really like living in Monmouth county, but there are better alternatives.

But if you do need it broken down Barney-style, the point was that New Jersey has more people moving out of it to other states than people from other states moving into New Jersey. It's a net outflow that is only offset by large numbers of immigrants coming in from outside the country, which stems from the simple fact that the NYC metro area is the biggest entry point in the eastern US, if not the entire country, for foreign immigrants.

There, now you can busy yourself with trying to make that sound ominous.

In comment 13012772 Tesla said:

Quote:

What was the purpose of stating that most of the incoming population to NJ are immigrants? Other than pointing out that all the....ahem..."non" immigrants are fleeing the state their rented United Vans. What is the relevance?

neither I nor Modus speak for Greg but I assumed he meant that NJ could be the worst part of all of America and still be a nicer place to live than where many immigrants are leaving?

Paul Sarlo, CEO of Joseph M. Sansari for this.

with excellent communities, culture and schools and it is conveniently located to NYC and to beaches. Unfortunately, the cost of living makes it harder and harder to justify the costs.

I think about moving a lot to states where I can live more comfortably, but it's hard to separate from friends and family.

Same as Long Island. I'd love to move back to Long Island, but the cost of living is obscene, which is why my parents and virtually all of my aunts and uncles moved away. Between them, my parents have eleven siblings. All of them were born up there, and all of them but one aunt moved away because of the cost of living. My grandfather's house in Massapequa Park is roughly the same size as my house here in Richmond, only thirty years older and on a smaller lot, but it's worth two and a half times what I paid for mine a few years ago.

In comment 13012781 Mr. Nickels said:

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Paul Sarlo, CEO of Joseph M. Sansari for this.

It's amazing that most people don't know that Paul Sarlo - the Mayor of Wood-Ridge AND a State Senator (how does that happen) - is a paid employee of Sanzari, who basically owns construction in North Jersey. Corrupt New Jersey at its finest.

to New Jersey" - Rodney Dangerfield :-)

NJ is growing, but at one of the slowest paces (1.89%) which is 35th in the country, including DC and Puerto Rice.

The only places shrinking in population are West Virginia (-0.48%) and Puerto Rico (-6.75%).

This is estimated change from 2010 to 2015.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13012741 Deej said:

Quote:

like Yogi Berra used to say, "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." Also, people are leaving NYC and Chicago areas to some degree because the IT revolution has unchained people from living in a few dense population centers for certain industries. My job doesnt really require me to be in NYC, yet here I am, paying more for a 1 bedroom than I'd have to pay for 4000 sq. ft. in most of the country. Also, dont want to get into a maker and taker argument, but states like NJ are subsidizing states like SC. Even worse, a number of sunbelt states are not only taking tax transfers from richer states (via federal spending and matching funds), but they're then turning around and offering special tax abatement to lure companies out of the richer states that are subsidizing them. It's kind of unfair.

Doesn't NY offer some ridiculous tax breaks for "startups" moving to the state as well as large manufacturing companies (SolarCity) that agree to move to various upstate regions? I believe they are currently spending hundreds of millions (if not more) to redevelop Buffalo, most of which is going to corporations moving there.

In comment 13012494 ImThatGuy said:

Quote:

In comment 13012285 Chef said: Quote: In comment 13012131 Metnut said: Quote: broke so this isn't a surprise. My State, Connecticut, is in the worst fiscal shape of the entire union, only Puerto Rico is in worse shape.. Um I live in Illinois... wanna talk about a broke state? About to enter a second year without a budget...awesome stuff

Connecticut is so broke the cancelled the 4th of July fire works in Hartford because they could not afford it..

In comment 13012684 Go Terps said:

Quote:

In Monmouth County where I used to work the population growth rate has completely stagnated, and the population has skewed much older as a result. The government there is extremely concerned over the future prospect of significant economic shrinkage, large stock of emptying age restricted housing, empty McMansions, etc. In NJ the trends seem to point to a population influx back into the urbanized areas away from the suburbs.

This is a fascinating issue. My wife is from Hunterdon County which is dealing with the same thing. Millenials are ditching the car payments and opting for more of an urban experience.
]

In comment 13012801 giants#1 said:

Quote:

In comment 13012741 Deej said: Quote: like Yogi Berra used to say, "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." Also, people are leaving NYC and Chicago areas to some degree because the IT revolution has unchained people from living in a few dense population centers for certain industries. My job doesnt really require me to be in NYC, yet here I am, paying more for a 1 bedroom than I'd have to pay for 4000 sq. ft. in most of the country. Also, dont want to get into a maker and taker argument, but states like NJ are subsidizing states like SC. Even worse, a number of sunbelt states are not only taking tax transfers from richer states (via federal spending and matching funds), but they're then turning around and offering special tax abatement to lure companies out of the richer states that are subsidizing them. It's kind of unfair. Doesn't NY offer some ridiculous tax breaks for "startups" moving to the state as well as large manufacturing companies (SolarCity) that agree to move to various upstate regions? I believe they are currently spending hundreds of millions (if not more) to redevelop Buffalo, most of which is going to corporations moving there.

NY is offering a ten year tax free incentive to move your business there.

At least that is what the tv ads running down here say.

when compared to low cost states.

In comment 13012801 giants#1 said:

Quote:

In comment 13012741 Deej said: Quote: like Yogi Berra used to say, "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." Also, people are leaving NYC and Chicago areas to some degree because the IT revolution has unchained people from living in a few dense population centers for certain industries. My job doesnt really require me to be in NYC, yet here I am, paying more for a 1 bedroom than I'd have to pay for 4000 sq. ft. in most of the country. Also, dont want to get into a maker and taker argument, but states like NJ are subsidizing states like SC. Even worse, a number of sunbelt states are not only taking tax transfers from richer states (via federal spending and matching funds), but they're then turning around and offering special tax abatement to lure companies out of the richer states that are subsidizing them. It's kind of unfair. Doesn't NY offer some ridiculous tax breaks for "startups" moving to the state as well as large manufacturing companies (SolarCity) that agree to move to various upstate regions? I believe they are currently spending hundreds of millions (if not more) to redevelop Buffalo, most of which is going to corporations moving there.

Yes, and the commercials are constant. They ran off all the industry years and years ago and are now begging them to come back.

In comment 13012870 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

In comment 13012801 giants#1 said: Quote: In comment 13012741 Deej said: Quote: like Yogi Berra used to say, "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." Also, people are leaving NYC and Chicago areas to some degree because the IT revolution has unchained people from living in a few dense population centers for certain industries. My job doesnt really require me to be in NYC, yet here I am, paying more for a 1 bedroom than I'd have to pay for 4000 sq. ft. in most of the country. Also, dont want to get into a maker and taker argument, but states like NJ are subsidizing states like SC. Even worse, a number of sunbelt states are not only taking tax transfers from richer states (via federal spending and matching funds), but they're then turning around and offering special tax abatement to lure companies out of the richer states that are subsidizing them. It's kind of unfair. Doesn't NY offer some ridiculous tax breaks for "startups" moving to the state as well as large manufacturing companies (SolarCity) that agree to move to various upstate regions? I believe they are currently spending hundreds of millions (if not more) to redevelop Buffalo, most of which is going to corporations moving there. Yes, and the commercials are constant. They ran off all the industry years and years ago and are now begging them to come back.

The need to offer special tax breaks to lure business is an admission that overall taxes are too high. Too late.

but I love it here anyway. I've lived here my whole life...my family's been here for generations.

I couldn't imagine moving to Oregon or Las Vegas or SC or wherever because it's cheaper. Regardless of how much money I would save - it would absolutely depress the hell outta me being 1000s of miles away from my family and my roots.

In comment 13012794 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:

Quote:

In comment 13012781 Mr. Nickels said: Quote: Paul Sarlo, CEO of Joseph M. Sansari for this. It's amazing that most people don't know that Paul Sarlo - the Mayor of Wood-Ridge AND a State Senator (how does that happen) - is a paid employee of Sanzari, who basically owns construction in North Jersey. Corrupt New Jersey at its finest.

Can that just be repeated ad nauseum? This is a political post though so not allowed on this site?

This is the most blatantly corrupt political act I have ever seen.

In comment 13012891 Model4001 said:

Quote:

but I love it here anyway. I've lived here my whole life...my family's been here for generations. I couldn't imagine moving to Oregon or Las Vegas or SC or wherever because it's cheaper. Regardless of how much money I would save - it would absolutely depress the hell outta me being 1000s of miles away from my family and my roots.

thats the only reason why i havent left. but the property taxes are killing me. too much money for what i have.

Considering this legislation included a HUGE cut in taxes for retirement income:

Quote:

The other main tax cut in the bill comes from raising the tax-free threshold on retirement income. Currently, the threshold sits at $15,000 for an individual. By 2020, it will increase to $75,000 for an individual, $50,000 for a married couple filing separately, and $100,000 for a married couple filing jointly by Jan. 1, 2020.

Yes, NJ is still very expensive to retire in, but this legislation + sales tax cut make it much more attractive to retirees.

In comment 13012891 Model4001 said:

Quote:

but I love it here anyway. I've lived here my whole life...my family's been here for generations. I couldn't imagine moving to Oregon or Las Vegas or SC or wherever because it's cheaper. Regardless of how much money I would save - it would absolutely depress the hell outta me being 1000s of miles away from my family and my roots.

I get that, and there was definitely a part of me that was worried I was making a mistake. After all I've lived in either NJ or Maryland my whole life and know nothing about the west coast.

My situation is a difficult now because my wife and kid are still in Jersey for a few months, but outside of that enormous change it's not all that different. Being able to follow your sports teams, news from home, etc. is obviously very easy now compared to what it would have been years ago.

And as for missing extended family and friends, once we had a kid (and our friends had kids) the time between visits was growing anyway. There's just so much less time. And my kid is only a year old...I can't imagine how much time they occupy once they get into sports and activities and that sort of thing.

The culture shock has been much less than I anticipated. And the benefits (walking to work as opposed a 1+ hour commute, an eventual mortgage payment on a bigger house that will be literally 50% of what we paid in NJ) are pretty enormous. At least to me, anyway.

In comment 13013325 Go Terps said:

Quote:

In comment 13012891 Model4001 said: Quote: but I love it here anyway. I've lived here my whole life...my family's been here for generations. I couldn't imagine moving to Oregon or Las Vegas or SC or wherever because it's cheaper. Regardless of how much money I would save - it would absolutely depress the hell outta me being 1000s of miles away from my family and my roots. I get that, and there was definitely a part of me that was worried I was making a mistake. After all I've lived in either NJ or Maryland my whole life and know nothing about the west coast. My situation is a difficult now because my wife and kid are still in Jersey for a few months, but outside of that enormous change it's not all that different. Being able to follow your sports teams, news from home, etc. is obviously very easy now compared to what it would have been years ago. And as for missing extended family and friends, once we had a kid (and our friends had kids) the time between visits was growing anyway. There's just so much less time. And my kid is only a year old...I can't imagine how much time they occupy once they get into sports and activities and that sort of thing. The culture shock has been much less than I anticipated. And the benefits (walking to work as opposed a 1+ hour commute, an eventual mortgage payment on a bigger house that will be literally 50% of what we paid in NJ) are pretty enormous. At least to me, anyway.

I remember you saying you aren't a good flyer. Is that a concern being so far away?

move down here, you don't demand the same things that caused your states to become the way they are.

I remember when I lived on LI, I would see these signs all the time, 'Get out of NY State before it's too late'. We did. We love it here and would never move back.

In comment 13013302 Scyber said:

Quote:

Considering this legislation included a HUGE cut in taxes for retirement income: Quote: The other main tax cut in the bill comes from raising the tax-free threshold on retirement income. Currently, the threshold sits at $15,000 for an individual. By 2020, it will increase to $75,000 for an individual, $50,000 for a married couple filing separately, and $100,000 for a married couple filing jointly by Jan. 1, 2020. Yes, NJ is still very expensive to retire in, but this legislation + sales tax cut make it much more attractive to retirees.

And the failure to address the estate and inheritance taxes keep it a less attractive place. And I'm not talking about elimination. Just having the same rules as that notorious tax haven, New York, would go a long way.

Yeah I guess that just goes into the category of sucking it up. Besides I don't see that happening more than a couple times a year.

Things have been much easier since we moved to Richmond. In Pensacola we didn't have the support network we have here. A friend of mine in Texas recently tried to talk me into getting a job with the company he works for and moving to Houston, but my wife doesn't like that idea because she likes having my parents and aunt and sister close by.

In comment 13013538 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

Things have been much easier since we moved to Richmond. In Pensacola we didn't have the support network we have here. A friend of mine in Texas recently tried to talk me into getting a job with the company he works for and moving to Houston, but my wife doesn't like that idea because she likes having my parents and aunt and sister close by.

be careful with Houston. That area is so driven by oil that alot of people have lost jobs because of the drop in oil prices.