"On Paper", the skill positions on the Giants offense: Eli, Beckham of course, then Cruz, Shepard, Jennings, Vereen and Perkins seem to be a nice group. But then it comes back to the OL.
I've guessed at this before. Is McAdoo & Sullivan's plan to go with a Belichick / Brady type of quick passing game, so the OL protection matters less?
In theory, a lineup of Beckman, Cruz, Shepard, Vereen and Perkins is filled with "quick twitch" players who can get open quickly. No need for the OL to block for a 7 step drop.
Considering that the sport's press can and . . . .
does write anything and everything just to provoke a reaction, and that the Giants have yet to play even a pre-season game, I think I'll take a wait and see attitude. ;-)
I'd have to say they're overrated. Very erratic. They put up a lot of points, but they were below average on third down conversions, lousy in the red zone, and couldn't get a running game going until the season was lost. The historically bad D got the blame, and rightfully so, but the offense could have done a better job of helping them on several occasions.
Having said that, I am hopeful and excited about what they can accomplish this year.
has been the Giants biggest problem since the last super bowl. You can't win if 1/2 the starters on Defense are not playing. The offense should be better this year with Shepherd and hopefully another OL for the right side. A TE would help as well. Hopefully free agents learning a new system can help and we can get back into the playoffs. Let the injury gods be on our side this season
that if the Offense could be the equivalent of what it was last year and the defense could improve enough to make some stops that the Giants would be a playoff team.
It appears that the Giants have effectively replaced Randle with Sheppard and that he's the goods and may be even better than Randle -- but let's argue just for now that Sheppard = Randle
the fullback Johnson is a clear upgrade at the fullback position
The TEs are roughly equivalent to what they were last year - Interestingly with the loss of Mike Pope this noname group hasn't missed a beat and is good for moderate to good production during the course of the season
the offensive line - with all the complaints is remaining intact from last year - with the addition of a highly regarded coach
the running back corp is virtually similar - and maybe even improved as many rank Perkins as more gifted than any of the existing set
McAdoo is still influencing the Offense as is Sully
Same QB is the sheriff
forget Cruz for this exercise -- the Offense should once again be a top 10 NFL offense just examining additions/subtractions
the fact that there are doubts about this supports the idea the Offense is Underrated
OBJ - Legit
Sheppard - Rookie - Unproven, looks good without pads
Cruz - Has not played an NFL game in 20 months
Running backs - are all average or below...
This team blew FIVE leads with 2 minutes to go plus they were tied with the panthers until the final seconds. If they won half of those games, we would think a lot differently about this team. But it could be a blessing in disguise. The giants look to be a bad team based on record and will be over looked.
I'd have to say they're overrated. Very erratic. They put up a lot of points, but they were below average on third down conversions, lousy in the red zone, and couldn't get a running game going until the season was lost. The historically bad D got the blame, and rightfully so, but the offense could have done a better job of helping them on several occasions.
Having said that, I am hopeful and excited about what they can accomplish this year.
While I agree there were things the offense needed to do better, last season's record is on a historically bad defense.
- Only 3 teams scored more points than the Giants in the regular season. (Cards, Seahawks, Panthers)
- Only team one allowed more (Saints)
Giants averaged scoring 26 points per game and gave up almost 28 pts per game.
Hard to imagine that a Offense that for 2015:
1. Was one dimensional (i.e., had no running game)
2. Had only one above average receiver
3. Was weak at TE
4. Couldn't manage the clock
would be underrated. Although the right side of the line is still below average, they did make what appears to be some quality acquisitions during the offseason. On paper it looks like they may be taking a big step forward, but we can't say for sure until we see them play (plus we still have Newhouse penciled in as the starting RT)
and the running backs are so-so. To me this is the scariest part of the team in 2016. There's potential for a major drop in quality with one injury to Beckham.
I think the play calling in the green zone is horrendous
if you took away OBJ, this O would not have scared anyone.
Players to be feared are kinda rare. Take away Gronk and who's the feared player for New England?
Injuries took away Jordy Nelson, and the Packer offense took a dive.
There's nobody that could replace stars in the NFL. You just hope to be able to get by without them if you are faced with that situation
Lets not forget, you take away Eli from this team and replace him with Blaine Gabbert and you probably cut Odells production by 1/4th if not half. Same goes for replacing Brady. It takes two to tango.
I do not think we're underrated. I think we can be a very explosive offense for sure, but think of it this way - if OBJ gets hurt and misses a chunk of games there are a lot more questions than answers at that point.
Offense is loaded with talent. Top 3 WR in Odell and then Cruz and Shepherd. Obviously,that's two slot receivers, which isn't ideal, but that is still a very talented second and third WR.
Franchise QB
Tons of pass catching ability at the TE position.
An OL that is good in pass pro.
Multiple RBs that can catch the ball out of the backfield.
Some longtime fans, still focused on the running game, might not assess the offense so positively. But this is a new era in Giants football and if you look at the offense from a WC perspective, it is very good.
But they only managed one come from behind victory in the fourth quarter....
22nd in third down %.....16th in rushing average......31st in rushing td's....
But there were games you just had to shake your head....
Not showing up for 3 quarters against Carolina and Washington.......
Only one td drive against Dallas and the Jets....
Settling for fg's instead of td's.....
The inability of this team to convert on 3rd and short.....
Inability to control the clock in the fourth quarter....
This offense has only one proven WR.....
A rookie RB may be our best runner....
Flowers has to step up this season.....Jerry and Newhouse have to play better.....
My only criticism of Eli is, he has to be more accurate with his short passes to his backs/TE's.......I swear he is more accurate at 30 yards than he is at 5.....
I don't see how you can say they are underrated/overrated, until you see the new pieces of the offense work together....
Cruz is truly the X-Factor......if he somehow can come back, and SS is as good with pads on, as off, and if Perkins develops during the season, it could be scary....
Settling for fg's instead of td's.....Inability to control the clock in the fourth quarter.... This is because the offense takes what the defense gives them, passes to the sidelines at the ends of games. With no running game, as the field gets shorter close the goal line, it's harder to complete passes for TD's. Settle for FG and give the other team the ball with time on the clock. This hasn't been addressed.
Total offense, passing and rushing rankings, etc aren't important. There are times where shorter runs and passes over the middle are more important.
No shit the offense suffers if he gets hurt. A SB team was derailed when Plax shot himself and Plax wasn't close to OBJ.
This offense has a lot of potential, especially in the passing game. This group of WRs could be more lethal than the '11 group that led the Giants to a SB title.
Just based on last season
DieHard : 12:20 pm : link : reply
I'd have to say they're overrated. Very erratic. They put up a lot of points, but they were below average on third down conversions, lousy in the red zone, and couldn't get a running game going until the season was lost. The historically bad D got the blame, and rightfully so, but the offense could have done a better job of helping them on several occasions.
Having said that, I am hopeful and excited about what they can accomplish this year.
It is a statistical lie and has been for years. It is unbalanced, inconsistent and looks better statistically than it really was at the end of the season. Somehow just good enough to get our current head coach his job which is an entertaining thought.
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments.
It is a statistical lie and has been for years. It is unbalanced, inconsistent and looks better statistically than it really was at the end of the season. Somehow just good enough to get our current head coach his job which is an entertaining thoght...
You are right and wrong at the same time. How?
Right that the stats "lie": this is not a good offensive unit really because they are too 1 dimensional.
Looking at talent, the offensive has 1 great player, 1 good player, and an ascending OL. After OBJ and Eli the entire remainder of the O skill players are a bunch of jamooks, or jags...
Wrong about MacAdoo. It's because of his fine work as OC that the stats tell a prettier tale than the bodies on the ground would indicate.
It is a statistical lie and has been for years. It is unbalanced, inconsistent and looks better statistically than it really was at the end of the season. Somehow just good enough to get our current head coach his job which is an entertaining thoght...
You are right and wrong at the same time. How?
Right that the stats "lie": this is not a good offensive unit really because they are too 1 dimensional.
Looking at talent, the offensive has 1 great player, 1 good player, and an ascending OL. After OBJ and Eli the entire remainder of the O skill players are a bunch of jamooks, or jags...
Wrong about MacAdoo. It's because of his fine work as OC that the stats tell a prettier tale than the bodies on the ground would indicate.
It is the fine work of OBJ that has been the difference the last two years. Get him the ball has been the offense to date.
In solving/assessing situations the first step is state the obvious, don't assume its understood. That obvious is the Offensive Line, as an Old Coach told me in my innocent youth, "Ya' gotta' build an OL kid, a good one will make even a mediocre QB and RBs look all right, and if ya' got a good QB and RB that's the bonus. And a bad OL will make even a great QB and RB look terrible, and will get a bad QB and RB killed, well maybe not killed exactly, but they'd wish they were dead."
That's the Giants dilemna for 2016, will OL be up to the task, which ain't gonna' be until the pads are on and the other team is wearing different uniforms. Let's assume the best case scenario, with LT Flowers, LG Pugh, C Richburg and - now take a deep breath and get ready - RG Jerry, newly rejuvenated by the LeCharles Bentley Miracle Cure, and a year older, wiser & stronger RT Hart. The back up OL is adequate, unlike 2015 when an injury meant close your eyes and pray.
Otherwise with WRs Beckham, Shepard, Cruz if he can, Harris and some combination of Geremy Davis, Roger Lewis or Myles White, and the TE pack of Tye, Donnell, LaCosse and Davis there are almost too many targets. Correction, there can never be too many targets. Add the RB corps which is shaping up nicely with Jennings the horse, but Williams ready to step up, Vereen backed by Perkins on 3rd Down, and an under the radar weapon in FB/H-Back/TE Johnson, the Giants can strike with multiple weapons.
A final factor, not often brought up but here it comes, if Eli goes down, injury or concussion, whatever, this is the year Nassib finally shows what he's capable of and I for one thnik he will surprise the NFL, the next Hostetler to Eli's Phil Simms. Just you wait and see Gigantinnis.
Optimistic sure, but not unrealistic. If another injury epidemic strikes, if the entire team catches Zika virus, if, if, if..... always too many ifs, but not if the OL comes to the party.
I've guessed at this before. Is McAdoo & Sullivan's plan to go with a Belichick / Brady type of quick passing game, so the OL protection matters less?
In theory, a lineup of Beckman, Cruz, Shepard, Vereen and Perkins is filled with "quick twitch" players who can get open quickly. No need for the OL to block for a 7 step drop.
Having said that, I am hopeful and excited about what they can accomplish this year.
It appears that the Giants have effectively replaced Randle with Sheppard and that he's the goods and may be even better than Randle -- but let's argue just for now that Sheppard = Randle
the fullback Johnson is a clear upgrade at the fullback position
The TEs are roughly equivalent to what they were last year - Interestingly with the loss of Mike Pope this noname group hasn't missed a beat and is good for moderate to good production during the course of the season
the offensive line - with all the complaints is remaining intact from last year - with the addition of a highly regarded coach
the running back corp is virtually similar - and maybe even improved as many rank Perkins as more gifted than any of the existing set
McAdoo is still influencing the Offense as is Sully
Same QB is the sheriff
forget Cruz for this exercise -- the Offense should once again be a top 10 NFL offense just examining additions/subtractions
the fact that there are doubts about this supports the idea the Offense is Underrated
Sheppard - Rookie - Unproven, looks good without pads
Cruz - Has not played an NFL game in 20 months
Running backs - are all average or below...
QB - TWO Time Super Bowl Winner
If anything it was overrated last season. There were situational flaws that kept the unit from being as effective as the 'numbers' indicate.
I hate these "video only" reports.
Does it say, "The Giants offense is rated 17th by the
ABC criteria, but using the XYZ criteria, the Giants offense is 8th?"
Or this is just some subjective babbling in the late June "little / no news" time period?
Having said that, I am hopeful and excited about what they can accomplish this year.
While I agree there were things the offense needed to do better, last season's record is on a historically bad defense.
- Only 3 teams scored more points than the Giants in the regular season. (Cards, Seahawks, Panthers)
- Only team one allowed more (Saints)
Giants averaged scoring 26 points per game and gave up almost 28 pts per game.
1. Was one dimensional (i.e., had no running game)
2. Had only one above average receiver
3. Was weak at TE
4. Couldn't manage the clock
would be underrated. Although the right side of the line is still below average, they did make what appears to be some quality acquisitions during the offseason. On paper it looks like they may be taking a big step forward, but we can't say for sure until we see them play (plus we still have Newhouse penciled in as the starting RT)
Players to be feared are kinda rare. Take away Gronk and who's the feared player for New England?
Injuries took away Jordy Nelson, and the Packer offense took a dive.
There's nobody that could replace stars in the NFL. You just hope to be able to get by without them if you are faced with that situation
Quote:
if you took away OBJ, this O would not have scared anyone.
Players to be feared are kinda rare. Take away Gronk and who's the feared player for New England?
Injuries took away Jordy Nelson, and the Packer offense took a dive.
There's nobody that could replace stars in the NFL. You just hope to be able to get by without them if you are faced with that situation
Lets not forget, you take away Eli from this team and replace him with Blaine Gabbert and you probably cut Odells production by 1/4th if not half. Same goes for replacing Brady. It takes two to tango.
Teams like that make for a great last round FF kicker.
Franchise QB
Tons of pass catching ability at the TE position.
An OL that is good in pass pro.
Multiple RBs that can catch the ball out of the backfield.
Some longtime fans, still focused on the running game, might not assess the offense so positively. But this is a new era in Giants football and if you look at the offense from a WC perspective, it is very good.
Yes they scored a lot of points......
But they only managed one come from behind victory in the fourth quarter....
22nd in third down %.....16th in rushing average......31st in rushing td's....
But there were games you just had to shake your head....
Not showing up for 3 quarters against Carolina and Washington.......
Only one td drive against Dallas and the Jets....
Settling for fg's instead of td's.....
The inability of this team to convert on 3rd and short.....
Inability to control the clock in the fourth quarter....
This offense has only one proven WR.....
A rookie RB may be our best runner....
Flowers has to step up this season.....Jerry and Newhouse have to play better.....
My only criticism of Eli is, he has to be more accurate with his short passes to his backs/TE's.......I swear he is more accurate at 30 yards than he is at 5.....
I don't see how you can say they are underrated/overrated, until you see the new pieces of the offense work together....
Cruz is truly the X-Factor......if he somehow can come back, and SS is as good with pads on, as off, and if Perkins develops during the season, it could be scary....
Settling for fg's instead of td's..... Inability to control the clock in the fourth quarter.... This is because the offense takes what the defense gives them, passes to the sidelines at the ends of games. With no running game, as the field gets shorter close the goal line, it's harder to complete passes for TD's. Settle for FG and give the other team the ball with time on the clock. This hasn't been addressed.
Total offense, passing and rushing rankings, etc aren't important. There are times where shorter runs and passes over the middle are more important.
So let's not discuss anything because it's June. Eric, shut down the site until week one please per the request of bungle
This offense has a lot of potential, especially in the passing game. This group of WRs could be more lethal than the '11 group that led the Giants to a SB title.
Quote:
It's June.
So let's not discuss anything because it's June. Eric, shut down the site until week one please per the request of bungle
I think his point was they haven't done anything yet to rate.
DieHard : 12:20 pm : link : reply
I'd have to say they're overrated. Very erratic. They put up a lot of points, but they were below average on third down conversions, lousy in the red zone, and couldn't get a running game going until the season was lost. The historically bad D got the blame, and rightfully so, but the offense could have done a better job of helping them on several occasions.
Having said that, I am hopeful and excited about what they can accomplish this year.
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments.
You are right and wrong at the same time. How?
Right that the stats "lie": this is not a good offensive unit really because they are too 1 dimensional.
Looking at talent, the offensive has 1 great player, 1 good player, and an ascending OL. After OBJ and Eli the entire remainder of the O skill players are a bunch of jamooks, or jags...
Wrong about MacAdoo. It's because of his fine work as OC that the stats tell a prettier tale than the bodies on the ground would indicate.
Quote:
It is a statistical lie and has been for years. It is unbalanced, inconsistent and looks better statistically than it really was at the end of the season. Somehow just good enough to get our current head coach his job which is an entertaining thoght...
You are right and wrong at the same time. How?
Right that the stats "lie": this is not a good offensive unit really because they are too 1 dimensional.
Looking at talent, the offensive has 1 great player, 1 good player, and an ascending OL. After OBJ and Eli the entire remainder of the O skill players are a bunch of jamooks, or jags...
Wrong about MacAdoo. It's because of his fine work as OC that the stats tell a prettier tale than the bodies on the ground would indicate.
It is the fine work of OBJ that has been the difference the last two years. Get him the ball has been the offense to date.
That's the Giants dilemna for 2016, will OL be up to the task, which ain't gonna' be until the pads are on and the other team is wearing different uniforms. Let's assume the best case scenario, with LT Flowers, LG Pugh, C Richburg and - now take a deep breath and get ready - RG Jerry, newly rejuvenated by the LeCharles Bentley Miracle Cure, and a year older, wiser & stronger RT Hart. The back up OL is adequate, unlike 2015 when an injury meant close your eyes and pray.
Otherwise with WRs Beckham, Shepard, Cruz if he can, Harris and some combination of Geremy Davis, Roger Lewis or Myles White, and the TE pack of Tye, Donnell, LaCosse and Davis there are almost too many targets. Correction, there can never be too many targets. Add the RB corps which is shaping up nicely with Jennings the horse, but Williams ready to step up, Vereen backed by Perkins on 3rd Down, and an under the radar weapon in FB/H-Back/TE Johnson, the Giants can strike with multiple weapons.
A final factor, not often brought up but here it comes, if Eli goes down, injury or concussion, whatever, this is the year Nassib finally shows what he's capable of and I for one thnik he will surprise the NFL, the next Hostetler to Eli's Phil Simms. Just you wait and see Gigantinnis.
Optimistic sure, but not unrealistic. If another injury epidemic strikes, if the entire team catches Zika virus, if, if, if..... always too many ifs, but not if the OL comes to the party.