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NFT: Mets and Nats Take two Mets Chat 6/28

ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 11:56 am
-Matt Harvey VS Giolito

-Matz and Syndergaard both likely have bone spurs. Matz might miss a start

-Nimmo gets his first

-Mets work out "Gourriel"

-Zack Wheeler threw on Monday

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I mean the top 6 hitters in our lineup  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 10:17 pm : link
were all wRC+ 130 hitters heading into the postseason last year and none of those players were even Murphy. And that's for the year. Not August/Sep. That's incredible. We dont have anything like that currently. Cespedes... that's it.

Loney, Flores, KJ, guys like that are league average hitters. Fine to fill in for a bit but we can't have a whole lineup filled of those kind of hitters.

I disagree that TDA was only good in August. Look at this numbers month by month last year. They are almost identical April/May... whichever months he was healthy.

I actually think TDA is about to get it going. He's only had about 3 weeks of abats this season. I feel like he's getting his hits since he's been back. He should take off soon. We still need more though. Wright and Duda were pretty big cogs in our lineup. Combined with guys underperforming we are going to have to make a move soon.
I found it interesting Sandy  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 10:30 pm : link
mentioned that one of the problems with Gurriel is that it would take him a month to get ready in the minors.

I think he might swing a trade and get somebody in sooner. He understands the urgency.
Goeddel is coming in  
spike : 6/28/2016 10:34 pm : link
Oh boy
Snapshot of our current lineup's wRC+ since Im bored  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 10:41 pm : link
Granderson 104 (career 118)
Cabrera 101 (career 103)
Cespedes 148 (career 124)
Walker 113 (career 114)
Loney 117 (career 104)
Flores 89 (career 89)
Nimmo ?
TDA 52 (career 102) ( '15 131)

Looking at that is actually kind of scary. Walker, Cabrera, and Flores are right in line with their career averages almost to a T. Loney is actually playing over his head. Cespedes might still come down a bit. Really just Granderson and TDA are underperforming and TDA just got here.

My point with this is things are unlikely to change if we do nothing. They could actually get worse. A couple guys could bounce back but a couple guys could actually regress to the mean as well. We need an infusion of talent from somewhere. We just do. Reyes has been another league average hitter over the last few years. Not good enough...
RE: I don't know how you can make a case that the lineups being presented  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 10:51 pm : link
In comment 13013211 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
are the "real mets". You are indirectly saying that David Wright and Lucas Duda's presence in the order isn't that important then.

Couple that with the fact that TDA and Conforto are underperforming, and I remain confused by mets fans seemingly pointing the finger at the lineup like they're dogging it, when in reality they've been broken by injuries. They lost 4 important bats in Conforto, Wright, Duda, and TDA, but the expectations never seemed to change with the reality of what was actually going on. No lineup is going to roll along missing 4 expected contributors.


I agree with this completely also.
Well we are going to get swept by the Nats  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 11:02 pm : link
This offense can not get out of the mud. Fucking sucks.
Three fastballs in a row to Harper, huh TdA?  
PhiPsi125 : 6/28/2016 11:02 pm : link
Great pitch selection again, you dolt.
RE: Three fastballs in a row to Harper, huh TdA?  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 11:03 pm : link
In comment 13013241 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
Great pitch selection again, you dolt.


Blevins is a vet. He can shake off any pitch he feels like.
RE: RE: Three fastballs in a row to Harper, huh TdA?  
PhiPsi125 : 6/28/2016 11:05 pm : link
In comment 13013243 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13013241 PhiPsi125 said:


Quote:


Great pitch selection again, you dolt.



Blevins is a vet. He can shake off any pitch he feels like.


You are right, complete pass for TdA. He calls a great game, naturally.
RE: RE: RE: Three fastballs in a row to Harper, huh TdA?  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 11:08 pm : link
In comment 13013244 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13013243 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 13013241 PhiPsi125 said:


Quote:


Great pitch selection again, you dolt.



Blevins is a vet. He can shake off any pitch he feels like.



You are right, complete pass for TdA. He calls a great game, naturally.


Complete pass? Seems like this is the new thing I guess... Blame TDA for pitch selection now? We have a rotation full of stars and a bullpen full of vets. More than likely TDA, the pitchers, and Warthen are going over a plan on how to attack hitters before each series and each game. Ultimately its up to the pitcher to decide what he wants to do. And that pitch from Blevins was a fucking meatball.

Whatever. Not worth arguing over.
Clearly  
PhiPsi125 : 6/28/2016 11:11 pm : link
TdA is a great catcher.
RE: Clearly  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 11:14 pm : link
In comment 13013246 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
TdA is a great catcher.


Clearly you think he's terrible. He's been throwing very well since he's been back. Its been noted many times how good he is at pitch framing. Calling games? Ive never heard in my life that was a weakness. Lets just agree to disagree. My biggest thing with him is his health. If he can stay healthy, he's a good player.
Come on Loney  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 11:15 pm : link
Please dont hit into a DP.
You think this is a new thing? Hardly. Fortunately we can't  
PhiPsi125 : 6/28/2016 11:16 pm : link
complain about it too much because Mr. Glass can't stay on the field long enough. You can down play his awful play calling all you want but he's horrible at it. And if you don't think that good game calling and helping to control your YOUNG pitching staff, then I don't know what to tell you.

But he's GREAT at framing pitches.
Fucking Ollie has owned us  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 11:17 pm : link
since he's been a reliever.
And as for his throwing, I've heard more about the good plays  
PhiPsi125 : 6/28/2016 11:19 pm : link
that the fielders have made more than his "good throws." He's made a couple of good throws since he returned but mostly the same bad throws.
RE: You think this is a new thing? Hardly. Fortunately we can't  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 11:20 pm : link
In comment 13013249 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
complain about it too much because Mr. Glass can't stay on the field long enough. You can down play his awful play calling all you want but he's horrible at it. And if you don't think that good game calling and helping to control your YOUNG pitching staff, then I don't know what to tell you.

But he's GREAT at framing pitches.


Ive just never in my life heard this is something he's not proficient at. News to me. His arm? Sure. Health? Sure.

Whatevs. This game sucks ass. This is brutal to watch.
RE: And as for his throwing, I've heard more about the good plays  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 11:22 pm : link
In comment 13013252 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
that the fielders have made more than his "good throws." He's made a couple of good throws since he returned but mostly the same bad throws.


I disagree. The Thor game was a joke because... well... Thor. All I needed to see was Rivera (one of the best arms in all of baseball) catch a Thor game and see runners running wild to know all I needed. As for TDA, Keith and the booth were talking about it just tonight. His mechanics are fixed and just about every throw has been on the money since he's been back. He's back to being "above average" as he was all of last year.
What do you think,  
Stufftherun : 6/28/2016 11:25 pm : link
10 - 12 games out by the All-Star break?
Huh, I haven't heard them say that he's "fixed" but I have heard  
PhiPsi125 : 6/28/2016 11:26 pm : link
them critique his footwork, and not necessarily in a "he's fixed" type of way. And two of his few runners he's thrown out were on horrible throws. He's not a good catcher at all, but we're obviously not going to agree on that.
I really fucking hate this lineup right now.  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 11:27 pm : link
Can we at least get TDA and Nimmo up higher in the lineup. Get Walker and Cabrera the hell out of the top 4. Do something!
RE: What do you think,  
PhiPsi125 : 6/28/2016 11:27 pm : link
In comment 13013256 Stufftherun said:
Quote:
10 - 12 games out by the All-Star break?


Just in time for Terry and Sandy to get serious about the season, right?
RE: Huh, I haven't heard them say that he's  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 11:28 pm : link
In comment 13013257 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
them critique his footwork, and not necessarily in a "he's fixed" type of way. And two of his few runners he's thrown out were on horrible throws. He's not a good catcher at all, but we're obviously not going to agree on that.


Really not trying to argue with you but rewind this game to when TDA nailed Murphy tonight. Listen to the commentary for the next 5 minutes after that play.
Robles has kind  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 11:30 pm : link
of been an unheralded hero the last couple weeks. Lots of good its done us.
Gimme a break, these guys always gizz in their pants  
PhiPsi125 : 6/28/2016 11:31 pm : link
anytime TdA happens to throw anybody out, even the slow Daniel Murphy. Probably because they are not used to seeing it. Congrats on the extremely rare good throw today. Blind squirrel finds...well, you know.
Well....  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 11:32 pm : link
At least we have Verrett facing Sherzer tomorrow... lol
RE: Gimme a break, these guys always gizz in their pants  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 11:36 pm : link
In comment 13013264 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
anytime TdA happens to throw anybody out, even the slow Daniel Murphy. Probably because they are not used to seeing it. Congrats on the extremely rare good throw today. Blind squirrel finds...well, you know.


He's had like 4 CS in the last week alone. The point was the commentary was that his mechanics were fixed... he's been throwing from his ear again... basically that his throws have been great since he's returned.

I argued exactly that since the postseason last year that TDA's mechanics were in a funk. TDA was actually very good at throwing out runners all year during the season in 2015.

You dont believe me? That's fine. We aren't ever going to get anywhere with this. Its cool for you to tell me our announcers were talking about stuff but I guess I can't do the same.... :(
Im getting dangerously close  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 11:41 pm : link
to getting on Collins case again too. This team is lifeless. His lineups suck. They will probably never do it but a change of scenery might do us wonders.
Reyes is going to save the season  
Uncle Frank : 6/28/2016 11:41 pm : link
Yes boys, you heard it here first!
Huh? You can say whatever you want. It's great that the announcers  
PhiPsi125 : 6/28/2016 11:44 pm : link
were touching themselves over TdA throwing out Daniel Murphy in THIS GAME. I didn't dispute that. It doesn't take away from the fact that in previous games they have critiqued his foot work. Doesn't take away from the fact that in at least two of his four caught stolen bases were on awful throws and great plays from the fielders. Tonight's throw to get a slow runner was a good one for sure, but he hasn't been great since returning. Come on.

Whatever. I have a better chance of seeing a unicorn suck its own cock than of seeing TdA ever putting it together.

And yes, TdA is the current target of my despise...as irrational as it may or may not be.
The team's offensive issues are simple - look at all the corners  
Eric on Li : 6/28/2016 11:45 pm : link
which are typically the 4 spots where you find the best hitters. 3B has been an issue since day 1. Duda was having a bad year, possibly due to his injury, and as admirably as Loney has filled in he's at best passable. Granderson has had some flashes but hasn't been able to get on track and Conforto went into a nose dive that very much lined up directly with the team's offensive output dropping off.

Walker, Cabrera, Cespedes are all putting up good numbers for their respective positions - but simply put we need a lot more out of the corners (and more out of the C position would be nice too). Hopefully Reyes is the first step, with Conforto resurgence not too far behind. May need to go shopping for a 1B.
RE: The team's offensive issues are simple - look at all the corners  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 11:49 pm : link
In comment 13013274 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
which are typically the 4 spots where you find the best hitters. 3B has been an issue since day 1. Duda was having a bad year, possibly due to his injury, and as admirably as Loney has filled in he's at best passable. Granderson has had some flashes but hasn't been able to get on track and Conforto went into a nose dive that very much lined up directly with the team's offensive output dropping off.

Walker, Cabrera, Cespedes are all putting up good numbers for their respective positions - but simply put we need a lot more out of the corners (and more out of the C position would be nice too). Hopefully Reyes is the first step, with Conforto resurgence not too far behind. May need to go shopping for a 1B.


I agree with most of this although you are "barely" getting enough at SS. Cabrera is exactly league average which I guess is fine for SS but he's not really a plus. He was supposed to be our 8 hitter though so its not really his fault.
Well Robles...  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 11:50 pm : link
was pitching well. This is disgusting.
I have a hard time thinking  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 11:51 pm : link
Reyes will give us enough offense at 3B. If he's hitting well Id consider playing him at SS, playing Cabrera at 3B in the interim, and making Cabrera the utility guy when an addition is brought in (I assume a 3B).
We're supposed to be all goo goo ga ga over d'arnaud  
EJV79 : 6/28/2016 11:52 pm : link
throwing out daniel murphy? The fact that murphy was even running on d'arnaud tells you all need to know on how opposing teams view him. The royals ran the fuck all over him last year, the nats made it look like a little league game last night the way they ran on him. I've ranted again d'arnaud plenty in the past and i'll continue until he's out of a mets uniform. The need at catcher is as glaring as any other positin the mets need to fill. Travis fucking d'arnaud is not the catcher the mets should be looking to the future with, and i don't wanna hear from anybody that he needs to learn a new position. He can't stay healthy, he's an average hitter at best, get him the fuck outta here!!!
RE: Reyes is going to save the season  
Vanzetti : 6/28/2016 11:53 pm : link
In comment 13013270 Uncle Frank said:
Quote:
Yes boys, you heard it here first!



I know you are joking but seriously that's what we need. Some unexpected jolt to get this team out of this funk. Cuz this shit is unwatchable.
5-0 now  
EJV79 : 6/28/2016 11:55 pm : link
Might as well be 50-0
Why not use your second best reliever here  
ZGiants98 : 6/28/2016 11:59 pm : link
Ugh.
Well Im just going to say this...  
ZGiants98 : 6/29/2016 12:00 am : link
We are all pissed off and on nights like this we are likely going to just want to take out our frustrations on each other. Hopefully we can try to not tear each other to shreds too much if things get worse. lol. You all have a goodnight. Im done with this one.
I think everyone's underestimating Reyes  
Eric on Li : 6/29/2016 12:01 am : link
A .285 leadoff guy with 20 XBH (plus 15 SB's) would be a big add, is it really that unreasonable to think he can't replicate what he did in Toronto last year? Or play even better coming back to a place he's enormously comfortable & happy to be? It's pretty common knowledge that he hated Toronto. Plus he moves Granderson into more of a run producing position which could be a big help, especially if his presence on the bases can take away the shift.
Bringing reyes back and putting him in the leadoff spot  
EJV79 : 6/29/2016 12:05 am : link
is literally a no brainer. He can't possibly be any worse than what we're trotting out there now. Who knows, maybe he'll hit a few triples and steal a few bases, something that is unheard of right now on the mets.
RE: I think everyone's underestimating Reyes  
ZGiants98 : 6/29/2016 12:06 am : link
In comment 13013291 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
A .285 leadoff guy with 20 XBH (plus 15 SB's) would be a big add, is it really that unreasonable to think he can't replicate what he did in Toronto last year? Or play even better coming back to a place he's enormously comfortable & happy to be? It's pretty common knowledge that he hated Toronto. Plus he moves Granderson into more of a run producing position which could be a big help, especially if his presence on the bases can take away the shift.


I think you mean two years ago. He played in Colorado last year and was awful. Wilmer Flores was actually better than Reyes last year. For real. I agree though. If he can bounce back to "Toronto levels" he'd help us... especially at SS.
So far Reyes has gone 0 for the minor leagues  
ZGiants98 : 6/29/2016 12:07 am : link
as a Met. lol. He'll def fit right in! I kid...
This team needs a big nasty hitter in the middle of the lineup  
ZGiants98 : 6/29/2016 12:10 am : link
To protect Cespedes. A star. Somebody who will strike fear into pitchers. I can't stand seeing Walker hit cleanup and Loney after him. Its disgusting.
Valencia is killing it  
ZGiants98 : 6/29/2016 12:18 am : link
Bring him in Sandy.
RE: I think everyone's underestimating Reyes  
Vanzetti : 6/29/2016 12:41 am : link
In comment 13013291 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
A .285 leadoff guy with 20 XBH (plus 15 SB's) would be a big add, is it really that unreasonable to think he can't replicate what he did in Toronto last year? Or play even better coming back to a place he's enormously comfortable & happy to be? It's pretty common knowledge that he hated Toronto. Plus he moves Granderson into more of a run producing position which could be a big help, especially if his presence on the bases can take away the shift.


Very good post, Eric.


It is going to be exciting to see Jose come back. Just the buzz he is going to generate might take some of the pressure off the other guys in the lineup. I'm going to be in Europe the next couple of weeks, so I'm going to miss his debut at Citi. I would love to be there and be part of the standing ovation he is going to get.

I still remember when he came up like it was yesterday. When Jose hit a routine grounder, you stopped and watched because he might beat it out. When he was on first, you could feel the excitement in the park waiting to see if he was going to go. And watching Jose leg out a triple was a treat.

I would also say he never lived up to his potential, even though he has 1900 hits. He should have been one of the guys who reached 3000 hits.

De Aza  
spike : 6/29/2016 7:18 am : link
Among hitters who have made at least 90 plate appearances, De Aza’s 29 wRC+ this year is the third-worst in baseball. He’s drawn walks less and struck out far more often than his career norms, and he’s barely hit for any power. At the moment, the Mets aren’t discussing designating him for assignment.

Gimme Campbell instead!
.  
arcarsenal : 6/29/2016 9:02 am : link
Very frustrating season. What else can you say. A new injury every night and this team can't fucking hit.

Starting to think we should just save our assets at the deadline this year and try resetting for 2017. Bah.
The team just can't  
Metnut : 6/29/2016 9:18 am : link
hit. I don't think adding one "good" but not "elite" bat is enough to make a difference. There's a chance that everyone gets hot again and we go on a serious run (the pitching is certainly good enough) but I'd be wary of trading significant future assets for players that will only be here in 2016.

If NYM like Gourriel, that might be an ideal acquisition as the team could improve the lineup but not sacrifice any long term assets other than some payroll.



ZG - I didn't mean 2 years ago, I meant last year in TOR (pre-sulk)  
Eric on Li : 6/29/2016 9:21 am : link
in the first half last year here were Reyes' #'s:

69 games, 288 ABs - .285 BA, .707 OPS, 4 hrs, 34 rbis, 17 doubles, 16 sbs, and just 38 k's. He also had 36 runs scored.

For comparison's sake, Neil Walker is #2 on our team in RBIs right now with 31 in 71 games. Reyes' first half last year would firmly be the 2nd best offensive player on our team right now.
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