NFT: Knicks Chat 6/20/2016-Phil crazed with Baze?

like a ton of teams are in on Ryan Anderson

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Names that keep coming up as top targets for the Wizards in free agency, league sources say, are Al Horford, Ryan Anderson and Nicolas Batum

In comment 13013585 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 13013583 Deej said: Quote: In comment 13013569 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: I would want to make a play for Dieng. He's a rim protector with range. Not exactly sure why he doesn't get more love in Minny. Because their other center is probably a year or two away from being the best or 2nd best big in the NBA. Well then who is their 4? I guess it's technically KG right now and I think they were trying to tank with Prince and KG in the starting lineup to get the pick they got. But I'm with 16, doesn't make all that sense to go after noah if you have Dieng and want to ultimately play towns that the 5.

I think Noah is being considered for leadership, experience, and to be a voice/practice guy backing Thibs. Obviously to play too, but they have 3 good centers already (dont forget Pekovic), and KAT should play 32 or more minutes. Wouldnt surprise me to see them bring in a 4 too -- especially a 3/4 3 & D guy.

They're obviously in a great situation. They dont need to add any star power. They already have the clear makings of a championship contender. If they could add another star in the next few years, they'll be hyper elite.

if you think Durant is a pipe dream are:

Noah
Howard
Bazemore

Would a team of:

Howard/Hernangomez
KP/O'Quinn
Melo/Lance Thomas
Holiday/Galloway/TBD- 3 and D sharpshooter
Rose/Baker/TBD

Be an East Contender? I think a few things obviously have to fall right: Rose (health), Melo (health), Howard (mental sate/attitude).

But that team has tremendous upside if those question marks are answered in the positive.

None of these players are in the twilight of their career age wise (34+).

You have two potential stellar and mobile defenders on the inside in Howard and KP, with Howard being more of the banger against the bigger guys.

You have plenty of complementary scoring options. You have a tremendous slashing penetrator in Rose who can open up the perimeter for Melo and KP or take his man if the defense is not collapsing. You have viable mid range options in KP and Melo. You have a plus,plus post-scoring option in Howard. Long range and perimeter D would be the most glaring need which is where they would really need to add a 3 and D guy.

Even without Durant if things fall right this could be a very,very good team.

I'd like Joe Johnson on a one year deal. Thomas would be the 3 and D guy in that scenario.

There's a reason everyone tries to dump the guy once they have him.

and trust that he could get through to him. But he's not coaching the team. If the bidding for Noah's services gets out of hand, however, Howard is worth considering.

In comment 13013680 Heisenberg said:

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There's a reason everyone tries to dump the guy once they have him.

Not saying it's ideal or without risk but on pure upside it may be one of the best, most realistic options we have. The ceiling for the team listed above is a team that could reach the ECF and possibly challenge the Cavs to come out of the east. Certainly, debatable on the chances to reach that potential but the talent to do so is there.

In comment 13013680 Heisenberg said:

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There's a reason everyone tries to dump the guy once they have him.

That's why a Noah and Bazemore/Lee would still be my preferred scenario, but I wouldn't be opposed to a Howard/JJ combo. Howard at the max does scare me. But there's no denying what a Howard/KP/Melo frontcourt would bring on the boards and interior defense. For all the shit Howard gets there's really no way around how useful he is come March and April. When playoff games come down to settling in half court sets it works wonders for Howard.

The dude's averaged like 17 and 14 over his last 3 playoff seasons.

and Fournier receive QO's

Houston was able to come back from 3-1 against the clippers two seasons ago. Aside from the game josh smith hit like 9 3's.

In comment 13013700 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 13013680 Heisenberg said: Quote: There's a reason everyone tries to dump the guy once they have him. That's why a Noah and Bazemore/Lee would still be my preferred scenario, but I wouldn't be opposed to a Howard/JJ combo. Howard at the max does scare me. But there's no denying what a Howard/KP/Melo frontcourt would bring on the boards and interior defense. For all the shit Howard gets there's really no way around how useful he is come March and April. When playoff games come down to settling in half court sets it works wonders for Howard. The dude's averaged like 17 and 14 over his last 3 playoff seasons.

Is JJ a good defender?

In comment 13013700 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 13013680 Heisenberg said: Quote: There's a reason everyone tries to dump the guy once they have him. That's why a Noah and Bazemore/Lee would still be my preferred scenario, but I wouldn't be opposed to a Howard/JJ combo. Howard at the max does scare me. But there's no denying what a Howard/KP/Melo frontcourt would bring on the boards and interior defense. For all the shit Howard gets there's really no way around how useful he is come March and April. When playoff games come down to settling in half court sets it works wonders for Howard. The dude's averaged like 17 and 14 over his last 3 playoff seasons.

Imagine what #s he'd put up if he could actually hit some FTs!

know many of you don't like him but I wish we had ammo to land Greg Monroe given the fact the Bucks are apparently looking to dump him. It would amount to a 1 year commitment (player option following 2016-2017) and it's not as if we have young studs we would regret dealing

But I don't think it's a plus at this stage of his career. His size definetly does help.

And the size in general would be insane if he came here with howard. Rose is 6'3, JJ 6'7, Melo 6'8, KP 7'3 and D12 at 6'11.

He's a knockdown shooter and underrated passer which is why I think a 1 year deal would be nice especially if we can get Thomas locked in long term to be our 3 and D.

answer the previous question, Joe Johnson is a below average defender.

"Johnson's defense, however, continues to be an issue -- especially when he's trying to guard quicker players on drives to the basket. According to NBA.com research, he's allowing opposing players to shoot 77.2 percent from inside six feet -- 17 percent higher than the average player. The Nets are also giving up a staggering 107.2 points per 100 possessions with Johnson on the court."

Drummond and DJ have certainly taken attention away from him in that regard. Adam silver seems intent on changing the hack a Shaq strategy. If that's the case I think that makes all 3 players a lot more valuable.

In that proposed set up isn't bad. The problem is you're going to pay a 35 year old 10-15 mil for 3 years to get him.

This off season is really depressing for me. Another Knicks regime, another bunch of short term "fixes" that won't work out and don't put the Knicks on a road towards the chanpionship.

I just hope these moves don't set the franchise back a bunch of years in terms of building around KP but it's hard to imagine it doesn't. Knicks won't have a single player whose timeline is even remotely close to KP unless we resign Galloway.

In comment 13013731 Sgrcts said:

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In that proposed set up isn't bad. The problem is you're going to pay a 35 year old 10-15 mil for 3 years to get him. This off season is really depressing for me. Another Knicks regime, another bunch of short term "fixes" that won't work out and don't put the Knicks on a road towards the chanpionship. I just hope these moves don't set the franchise back a bunch of years in terms of building around KP but it's hard to imagine it doesn't. Knicks won't have a single player whose timeline is even remotely close to KP unless we resign Galloway.

Well, the fact is it's hard to get anyone to match up with a 20 year old age wise when you don't have draft picks.

Durant is meeting with OKC one day before FA starts. Seems like a strange thing to do unless he's telling them he's leaving.

But a shoot first often injured PG and 30+ year old often injured centers are definitely the wrong way to build around one, no?

At least a Bazemore or Batum are young enough/fit well with KPs skill set.

In comment 13013731 Sgrcts said:

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In that proposed set up isn't bad. The problem is you're going to pay a 35 year old 10-15 mil for 3 years to get him. This off season is really depressing for me. Another Knicks regime, another bunch of short term "fixes" that won't work out and don't put the Knicks on a road towards the chanpionship. I just hope these moves don't set the franchise back a bunch of years in terms of building around KP but it's hard to imagine it doesn't. Knicks won't have a single player whose timeline is even remotely close to KP unless we resign Galloway.

What are you whining about? First of all free agency hasn't even started yet so they haven't made any short term fixes. Secondly, if they aggressively pursue Bazemore, how is that a short term fix? He's 27 years old so presumably just entering his prime. Most of the names, outside of Howard and Noah, that have been attached to the Knicks are guys in their 20s.

In comment 13013731 Sgrcts said:

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In that proposed set up isn't bad. The problem is you're going to pay a 35 year old 10-15 mil for 3 years to get him. This off season is really depressing for me. Another Knicks regime, another bunch of short term "fixes" that won't work out and don't put the Knicks on a road towards the chanpionship. I just hope these moves don't set the franchise back a bunch of years in terms of building around KP but it's hard to imagine it doesn't. Knicks won't have a single player whose timeline is even remotely close to KP unless we resign Galloway.

The only scenario I'd want JJ is on a 1 year deal. Which I'm sure he wouldn't be too opposed to. He's still got a few years left in him and I can see a team throwing 12-15 at him when the cap goes to $110M

In comment 13013740 Sgrcts said:

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But a shoot first often injured PG and 30+ year old often injured centers are definitely the wrong way to build around one, no? At least a Bazemore or Batum are young enough/fit well with KPs skill set.

Are there younger better alternatives at PG and C that are available and I'm missing?

In comment 13013737 Jon in NYC said:

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Durant is meeting with OKC one day before FA starts. Seems like a strange thing to do unless he's telling them he's leaving.

Agree Jon. Usually a player gives his current team the last meeting.

But best case scenario to me is signing basically no one for any real money or time. Let's see what Rose has- if he's a lotto ticket and you win big on him, next offseason we will be a lot more attractive. If he's not, you're basically signing all these other guys to compete and you have no shot of doing that without winning that lotto.

thinks he stays in OKC... that means very little but that was his thought yesterday.

In comment 13013743 Jon in NYC said:

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In comment 13013740 Sgrcts said: Quote: But a shoot first often injured PG and 30+ year old often injured centers are definitely the wrong way to build around one, no? At least a Bazemore or Batum are young enough/fit well with KPs skill set. Are there younger better alternatives at PG and C that are available and I'm missing?

Well we didn't have to get into this mess in the first place by trading Lopez and Grant, so...........

In comment 13013733 Jon in NYC said:

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Well, the fact is it's hard to get anyone to match up with a 20 year old age wise when you don't have draft picks.

Not to belabor the point too much, but it's not as hard as you think. Rolo would have returned a pick in the teens I believe. They could have kept Grant. Strong armed Melo into accepting a trade by expressly rebuilding. Then use free agency to target guys in the 23-26 year old range, including RFAs, rather than 30+. In carrying this out you're probably setting yourself up for a premium 2017 pick.

The "problem" isnt lack of way. It's lack of will. And I get it -- whereas I would do a slow burn rebuild, many fans, media members and probably members of management care about winning this year and next year.

Does Phil follow the Rose move and tie us into a Rose/Howard type team for the next 4 years or just use this year to see what he has in Rose? If it's the latter, I would be much much happier with the Rose deal. If it's the former, we've seen that dance way too many times at this point.

In comment 13013748 Sgrcts said:

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But best case scenario to me is signing basically no one for any real money or time. Let's see what Rose has- if he's a lotto ticket and you win big on him, next offseason we will be a lot more attractive. If he's not, you're basically signing all these other guys to compete and you have no shot of doing that without winning that lotto.

People said the same thing last year. If we miss out on Monroe, don't sign anyone, save the money. Well, Phil went out and paid for a guy that most didn't want and turned him into an asset. I'd rather Phil spends wisely on good young players that can be assets in the future. He's done everything right. He's not giving away picks, he's not signing old players to long contracts. Rose was a brilliant move, he now has a year to try out. The hand wringing about this offseason is so off base, IMO. It's all based on the past and not the current.

less interest in talking about this Rose deal again. Sides are drawn, we'll see how it plays out.

Either way, we can all agree that we should have picked 9th this year instead of trotting out Andrea Fucking Bargnani two years ago.

most of bbi would be fired if they were GM's. Most wanted to max out Monroe(based on desperation) and we'd be in a huge hole if we did that. Phil made a great move not doing that.

but Lopez isn't a building block player. Trading him away was a ho hum move. He's average at best.

Mozgov would all but replace Lopez's productivity here.

In comment 13013784 djm said:

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but Lopez isn't a building block player. Trading him away was a ho hum move. He's average at best. Mozgov would all but replace Lopez's productivity here.

You'd better duck...

Lopez is average. I will leave out the at best line because that's not fair.

Stefan Bondy ‏@SBondyNYDN
At Knicks summer league practice: new Knicks assistants Howard Eisley and Jerry Sichting. Stefan Bondy ‏@SBondyNYDN
Also Kurt Rambis, David Bliss, Josh Longstaff, Corey Gaines.

I watched every Knicks game last year and so did nearly everyone here. Lopez is average. He's a solid defender. Pretty good rebounder but limited offensive player. You can't run the offense through Lopez. You can dump it down to him a few times a game and hope he doesn't get doubled and can flip that little shot of his into the basket. He's a solid guy in the locker room too.

Add it all up. Average.

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By stepping in and facilitating the Jerry Colangelo move in Philadelphia, then, Silver sent a message: Gross incompetence is acceptable; strategic gaming of a flawed system is not.

Hinkie 3:16 - ( New Window )

and he pretty much said Lopez isn't a great fit with KP. Basically said that they needed a big man to get position in the post and it was the first guy who got there. Often Lopez would take that position and would eliminate KP from the offense because Lopez was more demanding of that spot. I don't think Phil wants a center who plays in the post because he envisions KP filling that role.

won't give you everything that Lopez did but he can log his share of minutes and come pretty close. Mix in a decent big like O'Quinn off the bench and the Knicks wouldn't really miss too much.

Lopez is replaceable. I liked him here but he's replaceable. Rose at least provides some sizzle to the guard position but I still feel like the Knicks are in desperate need of a two way guard that can log heavy minutes and hold his own on both ends. If they don't add that guy then I will be disappointed in the off-season but they also need to be financially responsible.

KD is still considering a meeting with the Knicks.

How long does it fucking take to decide?

In comment 13013807 Keith said:

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and he pretty much said Lopez isn't a great fit with KP. Basically said that they needed a big man to get position in the post and it was the first guy who got there. Often Lopez would take that position and would eliminate KP from the offense because Lopez was more demanding of that spot. I don't think Phil wants a center who plays in the post because he envisions KP filling that role.

Makes sense. I just hope the center spot is KP's best position to maximize his potential. I don't think anyone really knows at this point.

In comment 13013807 Keith said:

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and he pretty much said Lopez isn't a great fit with KP. Basically said that they needed a big man to get position in the post and it was the first guy who got there. Often Lopez would take that position and would eliminate KP from the offense because Lopez was more demanding of that spot. I don't think Phil wants a center who plays in the post because he envisions KP filling that role.

So why would we want Howard?

for last?

In comment 13013816 Jon in NYC said:

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KD is still considering a meeting with the Knicks. How long does it fucking take to decide?

It should say something that even getting him to take a meeting seems to be as difficult a decision as whether or not to get surgery.

to determine if we should have a meeting with KD.

In comment 13013819 Coach Mason said:

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In comment 13013807 Keith said: Quote: and he pretty much said Lopez isn't a great fit with KP. Basically said that they needed a big man to get position in the post and it was the first guy who got there. Often Lopez would take that position and would eliminate KP from the offense because Lopez was more demanding of that spot. I don't think Phil wants a center who plays in the post because he envisions KP filling that role. So why would we want Howard?

I don't think we would.

In comment 13013773 Jon in NYC said:

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less interest in talking about this Rose deal again. Sides are drawn, we'll see how it plays out. Either way, we can all agree that we should have picked 9th this year instead of trotting out Andrea Fucking Bargnani two years ago.

=1

.

In comment 13013816 Jon in NYC said:

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KD is still considering a meeting with the Knicks. How long does it fucking take to decide?

I am starting to think the teams themselves are leaking their meetings not kd and his team or agent...

Would make sense because no one has any idea what's going on with the knicks yet they know Lakers are out, wizards are out...