NFT: Knicks Chat 6/20/2016-Phil crazed with Baze?

It just sounds like Phil is saying he wants KAT to pair with KP.

So now that's off the table he has to go with the best available options.

It’s hard to argue Noah isn’t a player in decline. It’s just as hard to argue that he isn’t a legitimate injury risk. At 31, he is not the player he was in his prime just a few seasons ago. Whenever a declining player is signed to a long-term deal, something Noah would likely demand, the chances of the team getting close to value on that player is slim to none.

Even if you take out Noah’s lone season under Fred Hoiberg, when he came off the bench and was dealing with a shoulder problem, the Joakim Noah of 2014-15 wasn’t even an average player at his position. If you use John Hollinger’s PER ranking, he was 42nd among centers, below Robin Lopez, who was 34th this past season. Despite Noah being three years older than Lopez and a worse player the last three seasons, his contract is probably going to be far bigger than what the Knicks’ former center received.

Is it possible that Noah regains his skills from three seasons ago? Sure. It’s just as likely as Rose regaining his MVP form. In other words, it’s not very likely at all. The Knicks would be making a mistake giving an aging, declining, injury-prone player who hasn’t been good for two seasons a significant long-term contract. It would clog their salary cap, and be a poor, more expensive replacement for Lopez. It would be a bad deal.
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In comment 13013750 hitdog42 said:

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thinks he stays in OKC... that means very little but that was his thought yesterday.

Makes little sense for him to go anywhere else. OKC and GS would be the favorites if he went to those spots. But he'd also be called a bitch by going to one over the other.

In comment 13013818 djm said:

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In comment 13013807 Keith said: Quote: and he pretty much said Lopez isn't a great fit with KP. Basically said that they needed a big man to get position in the post and it was the first guy who got there. Often Lopez would take that position and would eliminate KP from the offense because Lopez was more demanding of that spot. I don't think Phil wants a center who plays in the post because he envisions KP filling that role. Makes sense. I just hope the center spot is KP's best position to maximize his potential. I don't think anyone really knows at this point.

There is no doubt in my mind that KP will be a beast in the post. He has an awesome back to the basket game and it's impossible to defend his size. His only problem was that he was easily moved out of the position. He'd get a good post position and then 5 seconds later he'd be pushed out to the 3 point line. He needs to get a lot stronger before he excels there, but his skillset is ideal for that role.

Is going to age better than someone like Noah.

He hurt his shoulder, tried to rehab it, it didn't work so he had surgery to fix it. It wasn't his legs. Aside from this shoulder injury, he's good for about 65-70 games a season. That's good enough for me as long as he's healthy going into the playoffs.

defenses make it tough to trot a guy like Noah out there. He struggles even making layups at this point and obviously can't shoot. It makes a team easier to defend. His defense is still good, but vastly diminished from his prime years.

IMO, he's worth a one-year "show-me" type of deal, but anyone signing him to 3+ years for $30M+ is likely flushing cap space down the toilet.

had chronic plantar fasciitis issues in Chicago. While this didn't really flare up last year (the shoulder took him out first), I'm not sure that type of condition is really going to improve with age.

and plays between 65-70 games a season. Giving him occasional rest is good enough for me.

In comment 13013885 Metnut said:

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defenses make it tough to trot a guy like Noah out there. He struggles even making layups at this point and obviously can't shoot. It makes a team easier to defend. His defense is still good, but vastly diminished from his prime years. IMO, he's worth a one-year "show-me" type of deal, but anyone signing him to 3+ years for $30M+ is likely flushing cap space down the toilet.

Very good points. He does provide help on offense as a scrapper, screener and passer but defenses will play way, way off him now more than ever trying to force him to score instead of pass.

Problem with your second point is that there are teams that will offer him multi-year deals.

It all comes down to value. Howard is clearly going to be the better player but it's about how much more are you willing to give him. If Noah's offers start creeping north of $17-18M it might be better to look at Howard

In comment 13013841 giantsfan44ab said:

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It just sounds like Phil is saying he wants KAT to pair with KP. So now that's off the table he has to go with the best available options.

The guy that fits that description is the one marquee center that I haven't seen the Knicks attached to: Al Horford.

Last year Horford took about 48% of his field goal attempts outside of 15ft from the hoop. Compare that to Lopez who only took about 7% of his field goal attempts outside of 15ft. Horford is 30, but he doesn't seem to be slowing down at all.

I'm not a huge fan of Bazemore, but a package deal of Horford and Bazemore would be a damn good haul.

Howard is a tool but if the money is close he's a much, much better gamble than Noah. I don't think it's particularly close either.

In comment 13013941 Lopes1984 said:

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In comment 13013841 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: It just sounds like Phil is saying he wants KAT to pair with KP. So now that's off the table he has to go with the best available options. The guy that fits that description is the one marquee center that I haven't seen the Knicks attached to: Al Horford. Last year Horford took about 48% of his field goal attempts outside of 15ft from the hoop. Compare that to Lopez who only took about 7% of his field goal attempts outside of 15ft. Horford is 30, but he doesn't seem to be slowing down at all. I'm not a huge fan of Bazemore, but a package deal of Horford and Bazemore would be a damn good haul.

Horford is nearly as much of a long shot as KD is.

In comment 13013947 DanMetroMan said:

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Howard is a tool but if the money is close he's a much, much better gamble than Noah. I don't think it's particularly close either.

My thoughts exactly.

Durant has had plenty of time "meeting" with the Knicks via Carmelo. He trusts Carmelo more than anyone he's going to meet with at Knicks HQ and IMO if he takes the meeting with the Knicks it means that they are finalists for him. It's not as if he has to check in with them to make sure they match on salary.

Also, the more i'm starting to see the prices tossed around for these players and look at cap room around the league the more i'm thinking Horford at the max is the best way to spend our money. He forms a great defensive tandem with KP, spreads the floor with KP, the lane will be wide open for Melo and Rose. Obviously he has his suitors but I don't see why we wouldn't go all in on him after Durant chooses.

In comment 13013960 NoGainDayne said:

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Durant has had plenty of time "meeting" with the Knicks via Carmelo. He trusts Carmelo more than anyone he's going to meet with at Knicks HQ and IMO if he takes the meeting with the Knicks it means that they are finalists for him. It's not as if he has to check in with them to make sure they match on salary. Also, the more i'm starting to see the prices tossed around for these players and look at cap room around the league the more i'm thinking Horford at the max is the best way to spend our money. He forms a great defensive tandem with KP, spreads the floor with KP, the lane will be wide open for Melo and Rose. Obviously he has his suitors but I don't see why we wouldn't go all in on him after Durant chooses.

Because we probably won't be the only team that goes all in on him after striking out with KD

In comment 13013957 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 13013941 Lopes1984 said: Quote: In comment 13013841 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: It just sounds like Phil is saying he wants KAT to pair with KP. So now that's off the table he has to go with the best available options. The guy that fits that description is the one marquee center that I haven't seen the Knicks attached to: Al Horford. Last year Horford took about 48% of his field goal attempts outside of 15ft from the hoop. Compare that to Lopez who only took about 7% of his field goal attempts outside of 15ft. Horford is 30, but he doesn't seem to be slowing down at all. I'm not a huge fan of Bazemore, but a package deal of Horford and Bazemore would be a damn good haul. Horford is nearly as much of a long shot as KD is.

Yeah I don't think Horford is likely, especially since I haven't seen him linked to the Knicks at all. He would be a great fit though. Solid defender, can stretch the floor, and is one of the better passing centers in the league.

In comment 13013960 NoGainDayne said:

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Durant has had plenty of time "meeting" with the Knicks via Carmelo. He trusts Carmelo more than anyone he's going to meet with at Knicks HQ and IMO if he takes the meeting with the Knicks it means that they are finalists for him. It's not as if he has to check in with them to make sure they match on salary. Also, the more i'm starting to see the prices tossed around for these players and look at cap room around the league the more i'm thinking Horford at the max is the best way to spend our money. He forms a great defensive tandem with KP, spreads the floor with KP, the lane will be wide open for Melo and Rose. Obviously he has his suitors but I don't see why we wouldn't go all in on him after Durant chooses.

I have to disagree. You don't think Durant has close friends on some of the 6 teams he's meeting with? Why bother meeting with those teams then? Melo didn't even have a say into the HC position so how much insight could he give toward Phil's vision? Melo might be a nice bonus "voice" but no meeting is a bad sign any way you slice it. in fact, you would think as a "favor" to Melo he'd take the meeting (if he changes his mind, it's likely the main reason he did).

In comment 13013960 NoGainDayne said:

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Durant has had plenty of time "meeting" with the Knicks via Carmelo. He trusts Carmelo more than anyone he's going to meet with at Knicks HQ and IMO if he takes the meeting with the Knicks it means that they are finalists for him. It's not as if he has to check in with them to make sure they match on salary. Also, the more i'm starting to see the prices tossed around for these players and look at cap room around the league the more i'm thinking Horford at the max is the best way to spend our money. He forms a great defensive tandem with KP, spreads the floor with KP, the lane will be wide open for Melo and Rose. Obviously he has his suitors but I don't see why we wouldn't go all in on him after Durant chooses.

The only thing I don't get is why is taking so long for him to decide whether to meet with knicks or not?

Or its the media just has no idea...

has told the Lakers they are "out".

know by now if there will be a meeting, its the media who isn't sure if its happening

warriors, spurs,clippers,thunder,heat,boston all get meetings

rockets lakers wizards get ruled out and told no meetings

but the knicks are the one team who apparently is stuck in limbo

its either something fishy going on, or knicks/kd just haven't let it leak if they will meet or not

Warriors can't sign him outright

Spurs pretty much are done because Duncan opted in but even then they couldn't sign him...

Clippers have no shot of signing him outright

Miami will lose either wade or whiteside so they are not a contender...

Boston is overrated in my opinion just because they had a good season last year ND all those assets led to nothing in the draft

In comment 13013947 DanMetroMan said:

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Howard is a tool but if the money is close he's a much, much better gamble than Noah. I don't think it's particularly close either.

Agreed.

think it's fair to blame the media here. Durant himself has said he wasn't sure.

“I don’t know [if I’ll meet with the Knicks]. I’ll see after we leave here. I have to talk to my people and figure that stuff out. It is three days away and we will see what happens. That is all I can say at this point,’’

“I haven’t really thought about that,” Durant said. “They obviously have a good team now with D-Rose, Melo and [Kristaps] Porzingis. Like I said, I’m going to talk to my team and we’ll figure things out. But right now, it’s kind of hard to say.”

but Robert Randolph has been spewing that it's the Knicks or OKC for Durant, and their wish list goes KD, Bazemore, Dwight on a 2 year deal then Batum.

In comment 13013998 aimrocky said:

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but Robert Randolph has been spewing that it's the Knicks or OKC for Durant, and their wish list goes KD, Bazemore, Dwight on a 2 year deal then Batum.

Same dickhead who said LeBron to the Knicks.

I think there is always a lot of pressure on the linchpin FAs to pick quickly so that other dominoes can start falling. If that's true it could explain why he's being parsimonious with the meetings, and why he could be on the fence about the Knicks.

Though Im not sure what the argument Miami has is that the Knicks lack, nor do I particularly understand the Clippers meeting. They'd have to clear 20 million to sign KD. I believe they literally cant do that without trading Paul, Jordan, or Blake. Have they told KD that, or is he taking it on faith?

In comment 13013997 DanMetroMan said:

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think it's fair to blame the media here. Durant himself has said he wasn't sure. “I don’t know [if I’ll meet with the Knicks]. I’ll see after we leave here. I have to talk to my people and figure that stuff out. It is three days away and we will see what happens. That is all I can say at this point,’’ “I haven’t really thought about that,” Durant said. “They obviously have a good team now with D-Rose, Melo and [Kristaps] Porzingis. Like I said, I’m going to talk to my team and we’ll figure things out. But right now, it’s kind of hard to say.”

See I don't get what is left to think about, either you are interested or you arent...

If it is going to take this long to decide if he just wants to meet with a team I can't imagine how long it will take to decide which team he wants to sign witb

side is his leaving the Knicks in the mix might be a "favor" to Melo in regard to other FA's.

In comment 13014007 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13013997 DanMetroMan said: Quote: think it's fair to blame the media here. Durant himself has said he wasn't sure. “I don’t know [if I’ll meet with the Knicks]. I’ll see after we leave here. I have to talk to my people and figure that stuff out. It is three days away and we will see what happens. That is all I can say at this point,’’ “I haven’t really thought about that,” Durant said. “They obviously have a good team now with D-Rose, Melo and [Kristaps] Porzingis. Like I said, I’m going to talk to my team and we’ll figure things out. But right now, it’s kind of hard to say.” See I don't get what is left to think about, either you are interested or you arent... If it is going to take this long to decide if he just wants to meet with a team I can't imagine how long it will take to decide which team he wants to sign witb

Well it's not taking this long to decide if he wants to meet with just any team. It's the Knicks. No one is holding their breath and I don't think anyone outside of this fan base is making a fuss about or it or even cares that much.

In comment 13014016 DanMetroMan said:

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side is his leaving the Knicks in the mix might be a "favor" to Melo in regard to other FA's.

How does that help with other free agents?

Melo even said there would be no hard feelings if he said no

In comment 13014018 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 13014007 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13013997 DanMetroMan said: Quote: think it's fair to blame the media here. Durant himself has said he wasn't sure. “I don’t know [if I’ll meet with the Knicks]. I’ll see after we leave here. I have to talk to my people and figure that stuff out. It is three days away and we will see what happens. That is all I can say at this point,’’ “I haven’t really thought about that,” Durant said. “They obviously have a good team now with D-Rose, Melo and [Kristaps] Porzingis. Like I said, I’m going to talk to my team and we’ll figure things out. But right now, it’s kind of hard to say.” See I don't get what is left to think about, either you are interested or you arent... If it is going to take this long to decide if he just wants to meet with a team I can't imagine how long it will take to decide which team he wants to sign witb Well it's not taking this long to decide if he wants to meet with just any team. It's the Knicks. No one is holding their breath and I don't think anyone outside of this fan base is making a fuss about or it or even cares that much.

Well the media is, every tweet says still not sure if meeting with the Knicks, it's the same tweet for a couple of days now

or not. He made comments last year about knowing that Aldridge was interested after speaking with him. If he was able to find out whether Aldridge was interested or not, you'd have to think he would be able to get an indication from Durant, who its seems he has a much closer relationship with.

In comment 13014024 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13014016 DanMetroMan said: Quote: side is his leaving the Knicks in the mix might be a "favor" to Melo in regard to other FA's. How does that help with other free agents? Melo even said there would be no hard feelings if he said no

It gives the appearance the Knicks are an appealing destination despite a win total dwarfed by his other choices.

about a KP/D12 frontcourt. He scored 36 points and I don't even know if there was 1 play that was drawn out for him. Even if the offense breaks down, D12 is the ultimate scrapper. Running the floor, put backs, easy alley oops. On the All NBA 1st team center
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Same 6 teams meeting with durant, Knicks still in play...

Whatever that means

In comment 13014043 nygiants16 said:

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Same 6 teams meeting with durant, Knicks still in play... Whatever that means

He's useless.

In comment 13014037 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 13014024 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13014016 DanMetroMan said: Quote: side is his leaving the Knicks in the mix might be a "favor" to Melo in regard to other FA's. How does that help with other free agents? Melo even said there would be no hard feelings if he said no It gives the appearance the Knicks are an appealing destination despite a win total dwarfed by his other choices.

I think players are smart enough to see knicks have improved themselves and don't need Durant to show them

Even free agent meetings.

Mike miller will be the coach for summer league

Melo laughed and said I am the meeting. It's already been going on. Melo and Durant have been working out together. Rose and Durant have been together in NYC. Melo is so right.

Wade has also announce he is an available UFA and is open to leaving the Heat since negotiations with the Heat have stalled. He and Melo are also hanging out.

In comment 13014073 Mason said:

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Melo laughed and said I am the meeting. It's already been going on. Melo and Durant have been working out together. Rose and Durant have been together in NYC. Melo is so right. Wade has also announce he is an available UFA and is open to leaving the Heat since negotiations with the Heat have stalled. He and Melo are also hanging out.

Whew. I'm glad that's settled.

In comment 13013980 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 13013960 NoGainDayne said: Quote: Durant has had plenty of time "meeting" with the Knicks via Carmelo. He trusts Carmelo more than anyone he's going to meet with at Knicks HQ and IMO if he takes the meeting with the Knicks it means that they are finalists for him. It's not as if he has to check in with them to make sure they match on salary. Also, the more i'm starting to see the prices tossed around for these players and look at cap room around the league the more i'm thinking Horford at the max is the best way to spend our money. He forms a great defensive tandem with KP, spreads the floor with KP, the lane will be wide open for Melo and Rose. Obviously he has his suitors but I don't see why we wouldn't go all in on him after Durant chooses. I have to disagree. You don't think Durant has close friends on some of the 6 teams he's meeting with? Why bother meeting with those teams then? Melo didn't even have a say into the HC position so how much insight could he give toward Phil's vision? Melo might be a nice bonus "voice" but no meeting is a bad sign any way you slice it. in fact, you would think as a "favor" to Melo he'd take the meeting (if he changes his mind, it's likely the main reason he did).

I have to disagree with your disagreement. Yes Durant has friends on other teams, but he was spending time in New York with Melo, a lot of time. Say what you will about his other friendships but he wasn't in San Francisco hanging with Steph Curry or Klay. It means something that he was spending so much time with Melo, Melo knows he was going to be selling him on it Durant knows it too. The timing is important, he didn't need to spend the days leading up to free agency with Melo, as you said he probably has a lot of friends.

In comment 13014051 bceagle05 said:

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Even free agent meetings.

What's dramatic? Nothing has changed.

But there was an Instagram post of a waiter with kd in new Jersey and she said she asked his security what was going on they said meeting with knicks...

Obviously take with a grain of salt on what wslas said but it was definitely him

In comment 13014089 NoGainDayne said:

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In comment 13013980 DanMetroMan said: Quote: In comment 13013960 NoGainDayne said: Quote: Durant has had plenty of time "meeting" with the Knicks via Carmelo. He trusts Carmelo more than anyone he's going to meet with at Knicks HQ and IMO if he takes the meeting with the Knicks it means that they are finalists for him. It's not as if he has to check in with them to make sure they match on salary. Also, the more i'm starting to see the prices tossed around for these players and look at cap room around the league the more i'm thinking Horford at the max is the best way to spend our money. He forms a great defensive tandem with KP, spreads the floor with KP, the lane will be wide open for Melo and Rose. Obviously he has his suitors but I don't see why we wouldn't go all in on him after Durant chooses. I have to disagree. You don't think Durant has close friends on some of the 6 teams he's meeting with? Why bother meeting with those teams then? Melo didn't even have a say into the HC position so how much insight could he give toward Phil's vision? Melo might be a nice bonus "voice" but no meeting is a bad sign any way you slice it. in fact, you would think as a "favor" to Melo he'd take the meeting (if he changes his mind, it's likely the main reason he did). I have to disagree with your disagreement. Yes Durant has friends on other teams, but he was spending time in New York with Melo, a lot of time. Say what you will about his other friendships but he wasn't in San Francisco hanging with Steph Curry or Klay. It means something that he was spending so much time with Melo, Melo knows he was going to be selling him on it Durant knows it too. The timing is important, he didn't need to spend the days leading up to free agency with Melo, as you said he probably has a lot of friends.

He was in NY for the Team USA announcement and the release of his new shoe at Niketown. Now did he have to stay in the city for as long as he has been here? Probably not, but it's not like he's only in the city to hang out with Melo.

In comment 13014089 NoGainDayne said:

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It means something that he was spending so much time with Melo, Melo knows he was going to be selling him on it Durant knows it too. The timing is important, he didn't need to spend the days leading up to free agency with Melo, as you said he probably has a lot of friends.

He was in new york for a nike event. This isn't just him and Melo having quality time.

In comment 13014094 nygiants16 said:

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But there was an Instagram post of a waiter with kd in new Jersey and she said she asked his security what was going on they said meeting with knicks... Obviously take with a grain of salt on what wslas said but it was definitely him

Where do you find this stuff? Apparently I don't follow the right people on twitter and instagram because I never see these cool tidbits.

In comment 13014033 Lopes1984 said:

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or not. He made comments last year about knowing that Aldridge was interested after speaking with him. If he was able to find out whether Aldridge was interested or not, you'd have to think he would be able to get an indication from Durant, who its seems he has a much closer relationship with.

Still not clear Aldridge was ever interested.

In comment 13014102 Deej said:

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In comment 13014033 Lopes1984 said: Quote: or not. He made comments last year about knowing that Aldridge was interested after speaking with him. If he was able to find out whether Aldridge was interested or not, you'd have to think he would be able to get an indication from Durant, who its seems he has a much closer relationship with. Still not clear Aldridge was ever interested.

Seems Melo thought otherwise.
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