Myself, I take down Russell Wilson any opportunity I have. Feel free to come to me for anti-Wilson propaganda.
Luck I have no beef with. I think he has potential to be very good, but is probably overrated to some extent.
Up until the Colts finally beat the Patriots last year, I had to question his string of blowout losses against them plus his high rate of turnovers in the playoffs.
Being a #1 overall he will always have an element of protection from the general fans and media that later round guys will not have.
if it's right. IN this case both contrarian views of Luck and Wilson are wrong. Although honestly I feel like a lot of people don't appreciate Wilson's talents.
if it's right. IN this case both contrarian views of Luck and Wilson are wrong. Although honestly I feel like a lot of people don't appreciate Wilson's talents.
Its not that we dont appreciate his talents, we just appreciate his surrounding casts more, especially his defense.
but at times I think we all over think that aspect of things. Especially when the QB is playing well. If the guy is playing like chicken fried dog shit for more than a year or so, fine, it's fair to bash that QB but there are also varying degrees of crap play and varying degrees of surrounding talent issues.
We all know Luck is an incredibly gifted QB. We all know WIlson is an incredibly productive QB. They both simply pass the eye test. Luck had a rough year but I don't think it's crazy to suggest his surrounding talent looks and smells like dog shit.
Wilson has never really played like crap. And last year when Lynch was done or on one leg and the OL went from overrated to just plain shaky Wilson carried that team to a playoff appearance and win. The guy can play. It's simple.
Then there's the Eli awful back n forth debates from 05-07 or so. Eli was winning games. A lot of them. But he wasn't always pretty so fans went ape shit about him. Eli was always underrated because he was winning games early on in his career but eventually, the negative backlash would been somewhat fair because Eli would have been a 5-6 year vet and maybe some of those mistakes or shaky moments would have truly come back to haunt the team. Even if the mistakes weren't Eli's fault, the scrutiny would have carried more weight. Right or wrong, the proof is in the pudding. Eli delivered. Then he delivered again. Game set match.
That Luck needs to make more plays and win more games this coming season or I'd be very nervous if I am a Colts fan.
Luck carried his teams early on. Last year he didn't carry shit. Year's prior Luck was the solution where as last year he was merely part of the messy problem.
I still feel like more often than not when a QB plays very well he's more likely to revert to that great form than not. I'd be shocked if Luck didn't turn things around this season. Colts have work to do though. I don't love any of their offensive skill players. The one WR is solid --name escapes me. I believe they finally saved the whales in this past draft but I could be wrong. They better have as it was long overdue..
I honestly don't think there's a truly bad NFL QB amongst the starting 32....or at least their prospect coming into the league at least.
The issue is the situation a QB is drafted into and/or traded to. The situations vary a ton, while IMO the difference between natural talent/production amongst all NFL QBs is not significant.
So what that means is Ryan Tannehill could be a SB champion easily if he was drafted by the Seahawks, and Russell Wilson could be another young promising QB on an 8 or 9 win Dolphin team.
You look at the careers of Mark Sanchez, Colin Kaepernick, RG3, Alex Smith, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Schaub with their highs and lows and you have to wonder if circumstance is more important than ability.
Ideally QBs need to be put on pitch counts when they come out of college. I think you can make any 1st round prospect an elite QB if you have a decent team around him and the patience to develop them properly.
Eli, Roethlisberger, Rivers all had that, and to some extent Flacco too. Brady and Montana had time to sit.
Rodgers sat on the bench almost as long as Steve Young and look at him now.
If Wilson becomes a really good passer independent of his supporting cast it's because the Seahawks supporting cast was good long enough to allow him to do it.
His primary talents since his rookie year are very strong resilience (uncoachable, legitimate), smart decision making, a good deep ball, and his scrambling ability. With a strong running game and defense that has been enough to get them into 2 super bowls. At some level you have to give him credit.
Forced to throw 50 times a game like Rivers or Brady, he still cannot do. Which is fine, but to act like he's already there is silly. Those guys couldn't do that early on either.
The idea that Wilson is better than Eli Manning, Roethlisberger, Rivers RIGHT NOW.....I can't defend that.
Why is that? Who are they trying to sign long term, Lou?
Von Miller
Not so sure if Von Miller's team will be able to use a QB as the basis for his salary. It's usually done by similar positions.
Justin Houston is making about $17M per while Miller is getting a paltry $14M per. I'd think Miller can make a case for getting $18M which is a shitload of money.
Do you have any idea what Miller's agent is asking for?
Luck had every reason to leave but that's not in his blood. That team is one of the worst in football from a talent standpoint. They need to reload and Lick should have a great career. 1 bad injury riddled season while throwing to only 1 WR who's barely 5'9" 180 won't get me to budge on my opinion of him. Flee er sucks, Allen always hurt and the line was a bottom 3 unit in football. Put him in a half decent offense and he flourishes.
He looked like Young Stud Pitcher who suddenly throws 93 instead of 98. He was amazing 2 years ago but I'd be worried as a Colts fan.
I'd be worried too, because the Titans and Jaguars have two Franchise QB's now. Not because of the big contract Luck received. Luck is a fantastic QB but the Colts have little talent across the board.
An infusion of talent. But Luck played like shit himself individually. Some of the throws he was making last year were jawdroppingly bad. I expect him to bounce back but it's almost like people are giving him a pass. He stunk plain and simple, I'm excited to see him return to MVP caliber play.
Luck had every reason to leave but that's not in his blood. That team is one of the worst in football from a talent standpoint. They need to reload and Lick should have a great career. 1 bad injury riddled season while throwing to only 1 WR who's barely 5'9" 180 won't get me to budge on my opinion of him. Flee er sucks, Allen always hurt and the line was a bottom 3 unit in football. Put him in a half decent offense and he flourishes.
If a team wants to keep a QB, he's not going anywhere. He could have wanted to leave but with the franchise tag, there was zero shot of it.
MrVax, going off memory the issue Miller had with the
Surprised he did not get more. IMO Colts got a bargain likely because of the lack of talent / injury season last year. Also, he is truly one of the good guys.
I saw him out in Palo Alto in his last season at Stanford. The thing that struck me about him was that it didn't matter who went up and talked to him. Whether it was a middle aged man, a kid, 20 year old woman or an 55 year old woman, they all left laughing after something he said directly to them.
Also, he is a huge soccer fan...he used to go play soccer with the Stanford soccer team and they all were afraid to go near him because they were afraid that they would be the one who injured him Genuine dude. Rooting for him and if this isn't the most telling, I actually went to Cal. Go Bears. Beat Stanford. :-)
I wouldn't have signed that deal. Jim Irsay may as well be Jim Dolan.
Luck played with every injury under the sun with an atrocious offensive line. He entered the league into a shit situation and that stink still lingers.
He's worth that money because franchise quarterbacks are rare commodities and the Colts will be marketable and have as good a chance to be competitive as anyone from a QB situation as anyone.
However, the rub is that by giving Luck the biggest contract, it means they have the least amount of money to give to other players which can be a negative.
Signed after the Colts drafted 3 OL in the first 5 rounds of the draft
You can't pass when you're lying flat on your back. Luck got the shit kicked out of him last year. At least Indy showed signs of putting a team on the field that won't put him in a wheelchair before this contract ends.
Luck had every reason to leave but that's not in his blood. That team is one of the worst in football from a talent standpoint. They need to reload and Lick should have a great career. 1 bad injury riddled season while throwing to only 1 WR who's barely 5'9" 180 won't get me to budge on my opinion of him. Flee er sucks, Allen always hurt and the line was a bottom 3 unit in football. Put him in a half decent offense and he flourishes.
If a team wants to keep a QB, he's not going anywhere. He could have wanted to leave but with the franchise tag, there was zero shot of it.
Well of course, but he could have made a stink about it like Kaepernick, for example. Luck is one of the classiest players in the game.
their skill players are pretty awful. No running game at all (10 spots lower than the Giants) and only 1 threat legit threat in the passing game. The OL is definitely the biggest need but they need a lot more than that too. Just a shitstorm of a team (and their defense sucks).
However, the rub is that by giving Luck the biggest contract, it means they have the least amount of money to give to other players which can be a negative.
Actually, even with this new contract, Luck's % of the team Cap, is lower than Eli's.
if they draft better and offer contracts to players that aren't washed up, they should have plenty of money to compete regardless of Luck's cap hit.
The Giants were just in this situation and I don't think anyone here would sign up for a ? at QB but really solid everywhere else. You throw what you need to throw at the QB position as its by far the hardest position to play and fill in the NFL. You build the rest of the team out from there.
Wilson was damn good last year. HE carried that team. We are pretty close to agreeing but I really really like Wilson. Always have. I think he's better than many others do. And I do think he blows Ryan Tannenhill out of the water. Swap spots and I have a hard time placing Seattle in the middle of some of the biggest NFL games the last 3-4 seasons. He wouldn't completely stink out there but would he hold back that team? I think he would.
Wilson has made some of the biggest plays the NFL has seen the last 4 years and in the biggest of moments. IF we can't define a QB by the biggest of moments than what else can we go on? IN addition, Wilson has the stats. The guy is simply a playmaking QB and a damn good one.
because more often than not this style of play isn't sustainable or for whatever reasons fans don't consider the rushing QB a viable QB.
While it's true that most mobile scrambling QBs don't last, until that day comes for Wilson we have to give the guy credit. He is lasting. He is carrying the Seattle offense. Why was Seattle 3rd in rushing last year? The main reason is Wilson. Rawls ran hard he's a good back and Lynch was a great back but the guy who keeps defenses up at night is Wilson. He's the straw that stirs that offense and he was the second he started for that team.
I get it, the running QB or the read option offense tends to be an unsustainable model in the NFL. I am not sure i'd want to hitch my wagon to that type of QB but every year Wilson manages to keep things going is just another notch on his belt. Until proven otherwise he's a great player. HE's the MVP of one of the better offenses in football. That's the very definition of great. It's safe to say Wilson was drafted by the right team at the right time but that's sports. If he went to Miami or the Jets maybe they fuck him up maybe they don't. Doesn't matter. He's in Seattle kicking ass.
RE: people tend to gloss over the rushing ability of a guy like Wilson
because more often than not this style of play isn't sustainable or for whatever reasons fans don't consider the rushing QB a viable QB.
While it's true that most mobile scrambling QBs don't last, until that day comes for Wilson we have to give the guy credit. He is lasting. He is carrying the Seattle offense. Why was Seattle 3rd in rushing last year? The main reason is Wilson. Rawls ran hard he's a good back and Lynch was a great back but the guy who keeps defenses up at night is Wilson. He's the straw that stirs that offense and he was the second he started for that team.
I get it, the running QB or the read option offense tends to be an unsustainable model in the NFL. I am not sure i'd want to hitch my wagon to that type of QB but every year Wilson manages to keep things going is just another notch on his belt. Until proven otherwise he's a great player. HE's the MVP of one of the better offenses in football. That's the very definition of great. It's safe to say Wilson was drafted by the right team at the right time but that's sports. If he went to Miami or the Jets maybe they fuck him up maybe they don't. Doesn't matter. He's in Seattle kicking ass.
And a lot of credit goes to his head coach, OC and GM. They genuinely 100% built a team around Wilson, and a style of offense too. Not just the zone read but the scramble drill. If you can get receivers open after 7-10 seconds, then nobody will keep a play alive long enough quite like him....at least consistently.
I read a PFF article that says the Seahawks are the best zone read team in the league, and they do attribute Wilson to that.
Some of my knocks on Wilson:
1. Historically has not played great in playoffs - Wins games, but bailed out a few times by his defense (Green Bay, 2014 NFCC). The 2013 season capped off by a dominant super Bowl but eked out home wins against New Orleans and SF.
Last year in Minnesota he didn't do anything until a broken play worked to his advantage (they almost always do). Then he didn't do anything for the first half of the Panther game.
All of this after a big regular season.
2. His struggles against the Rams: Somehow someway the Rams defense have stymied that offense and Wilson as well. That defense tends to do better against him than they do other teams, even in the division.
Now you can argue about divisional opponents having someone's #, but the Rams aren't particularly great.
It's a battle for life rooting against the guy but I'm not ready to annoint the guy until I see him carry the Seahawks better in the playoffs.
A very fair standard to hold him to.
3. Jimmy Graham disappeared. Used to be a matchup issue for teams, and this trade was supposed to send shockwaves throughout the NFC....it hasn't and I doubt it ever will to the extent it used to.
RE: brutally horrible game ending INT aside of course
Replace Wilson with the following and tell me if anyone is calling for Head Coach/OC head:
Romo
Kaepernick
Griffin
Newton
Eli
Very few have publicly blamed Wilson. Throw could have been better....safer. If he had audible power, a different throw or pass/run option would have been better.
Why is that? Who are they trying to sign long term, Lou?
LOL- he's one of the guys who really looks goofy with his beard.
I would get that messed up grill fixed first. Do they not believe in braces in his family?
Last year was an all-world performance compared to Bob.
LOL.
Oh, poor Stanley.
How's your boy RGIII doing?
LOL...
Myself, I take down Russell Wilson any opportunity I have. Feel free to come to me for anti-Wilson propaganda.
Luck I have no beef with. I think he has potential to be very good, but is probably overrated to some extent.
Up until the Colts finally beat the Patriots last year, I had to question his string of blowout losses against them plus his high rate of turnovers in the playoffs.
Being a #1 overall he will always have an element of protection from the general fans and media that later round guys will not have.
Its not that we dont appreciate his talents, we just appreciate his surrounding casts more, especially his defense.
We all know Luck is an incredibly gifted QB. We all know WIlson is an incredibly productive QB. They both simply pass the eye test. Luck had a rough year but I don't think it's crazy to suggest his surrounding talent looks and smells like dog shit.
Wilson has never really played like crap. And last year when Lynch was done or on one leg and the OL went from overrated to just plain shaky Wilson carried that team to a playoff appearance and win. The guy can play. It's simple.
Then there's the Eli awful back n forth debates from 05-07 or so. Eli was winning games. A lot of them. But he wasn't always pretty so fans went ape shit about him. Eli was always underrated because he was winning games early on in his career but eventually, the negative backlash would been somewhat fair because Eli would have been a 5-6 year vet and maybe some of those mistakes or shaky moments would have truly come back to haunt the team. Even if the mistakes weren't Eli's fault, the scrutiny would have carried more weight. Right or wrong, the proof is in the pudding. Eli delivered. Then he delivered again. Game set match.
All we have to go on is what we see.
Luck carried his teams early on. Last year he didn't carry shit. Year's prior Luck was the solution where as last year he was merely part of the messy problem.
I still feel like more often than not when a QB plays very well he's more likely to revert to that great form than not. I'd be shocked if Luck didn't turn things around this season. Colts have work to do though. I don't love any of their offensive skill players. The one WR is solid --name escapes me. I believe they finally saved the whales in this past draft but I could be wrong. They better have as it was long overdue..
I honestly don't think there's a truly bad NFL QB amongst the starting 32....or at least their prospect coming into the league at least.
The issue is the situation a QB is drafted into and/or traded to. The situations vary a ton, while IMO the difference between natural talent/production amongst all NFL QBs is not significant.
So what that means is Ryan Tannehill could be a SB champion easily if he was drafted by the Seahawks, and Russell Wilson could be another young promising QB on an 8 or 9 win Dolphin team.
You look at the careers of Mark Sanchez, Colin Kaepernick, RG3, Alex Smith, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Schaub with their highs and lows and you have to wonder if circumstance is more important than ability.
Ideally QBs need to be put on pitch counts when they come out of college. I think you can make any 1st round prospect an elite QB if you have a decent team around him and the patience to develop them properly.
Eli, Roethlisberger, Rivers all had that, and to some extent Flacco too. Brady and Montana had time to sit.
Rodgers sat on the bench almost as long as Steve Young and look at him now.
If Wilson becomes a really good passer independent of his supporting cast it's because the Seahawks supporting cast was good long enough to allow him to do it.
His primary talents since his rookie year are very strong resilience (uncoachable, legitimate), smart decision making, a good deep ball, and his scrambling ability. With a strong running game and defense that has been enough to get them into 2 super bowls. At some level you have to give him credit.
Forced to throw 50 times a game like Rivers or Brady, he still cannot do. Which is fine, but to act like he's already there is silly. Those guys couldn't do that early on either.
The idea that Wilson is better than Eli Manning, Roethlisberger, Rivers RIGHT NOW.....I can't defend that.
Seahawk fans think he's already there.
Bad news for the Broncos in a way.
Why is that? Who are they trying to sign long term, Lou?
Von Miller
Underwhelming. At quarterback. For the Browns. In minicamp.
Why is that? Who are they trying to sign long term, Lou?
Von Miller
Not so sure if Von Miller's team will be able to use a QB as the basis for his salary. It's usually done by similar positions.
Justin Houston is making about $17M per while Miller is getting a paltry $14M per. I'd think Miller can make a case for getting $18M which is a shitload of money.
Do you have any idea what Miller's agent is asking for?
Underwhelming. At quarterback. For the Browns. In minicamp.
At least he isn't drinking/drugging every day.
I'd be worried too, because the Titans and Jaguars have two Franchise QB's now. Not because of the big contract Luck received. Luck is a fantastic QB but the Colts have little talent across the board.
I'd be nervous if I was a Colts fan. It's gonna be hard to bring FAs in with that cap number and Luck is an injury risk.
If a team wants to keep a QB, he's not going anywhere. He could have wanted to leave but with the franchise tag, there was zero shot of it.
So you're saying they're high quality too...
I saw him out in Palo Alto in his last season at Stanford. The thing that struck me about him was that it didn't matter who went up and talked to him. Whether it was a middle aged man, a kid, 20 year old woman or an 55 year old woman, they all left laughing after something he said directly to them.
Also, he is a huge soccer fan...he used to go play soccer with the Stanford soccer team and they all were afraid to go near him because they were afraid that they would be the one who injured him Genuine dude. Rooting for him and if this isn't the most telling, I actually went to Cal. Go Bears. Beat Stanford. :-)
Luck played with every injury under the sun with an atrocious offensive line. He entered the league into a shit situation and that stink still lingers.
He's worth that money because franchise quarterbacks are rare commodities and the Colts will be marketable and have as good a chance to be competitive as anyone from a QB situation as anyone.
However, the rub is that by giving Luck the biggest contract, it means they have the least amount of money to give to other players which can be a negative.
Quote:
Luck had every reason to leave but that's not in his blood. That team is one of the worst in football from a talent standpoint. They need to reload and Lick should have a great career. 1 bad injury riddled season while throwing to only 1 WR who's barely 5'9" 180 won't get me to budge on my opinion of him. Flee er sucks, Allen always hurt and the line was a bottom 3 unit in football. Put him in a half decent offense and he flourishes.
If a team wants to keep a QB, he's not going anywhere. He could have wanted to leave but with the franchise tag, there was zero shot of it.
Well of course, but he could have made a stink about it like Kaepernick, for example. Luck is one of the classiest players in the game.
Actually, even with this new contract, Luck's % of the team Cap, is lower than Eli's.
The Giants were just in this situation and I don't think anyone here would sign up for a ? at QB but really solid everywhere else. You throw what you need to throw at the QB position as its by far the hardest position to play and fill in the NFL. You build the rest of the team out from there.
Wilson has made some of the biggest plays the NFL has seen the last 4 years and in the biggest of moments. IF we can't define a QB by the biggest of moments than what else can we go on? IN addition, Wilson has the stats. The guy is simply a playmaking QB and a damn good one.
While it's true that most mobile scrambling QBs don't last, until that day comes for Wilson we have to give the guy credit. He is lasting. He is carrying the Seattle offense. Why was Seattle 3rd in rushing last year? The main reason is Wilson. Rawls ran hard he's a good back and Lynch was a great back but the guy who keeps defenses up at night is Wilson. He's the straw that stirs that offense and he was the second he started for that team.
I get it, the running QB or the read option offense tends to be an unsustainable model in the NFL. I am not sure i'd want to hitch my wagon to that type of QB but every year Wilson manages to keep things going is just another notch on his belt. Until proven otherwise he's a great player. HE's the MVP of one of the better offenses in football. That's the very definition of great. It's safe to say Wilson was drafted by the right team at the right time but that's sports. If he went to Miami or the Jets maybe they fuck him up maybe they don't. Doesn't matter. He's in Seattle kicking ass.
While it's true that most mobile scrambling QBs don't last, until that day comes for Wilson we have to give the guy credit. He is lasting. He is carrying the Seattle offense. Why was Seattle 3rd in rushing last year? The main reason is Wilson. Rawls ran hard he's a good back and Lynch was a great back but the guy who keeps defenses up at night is Wilson. He's the straw that stirs that offense and he was the second he started for that team.
I get it, the running QB or the read option offense tends to be an unsustainable model in the NFL. I am not sure i'd want to hitch my wagon to that type of QB but every year Wilson manages to keep things going is just another notch on his belt. Until proven otherwise he's a great player. HE's the MVP of one of the better offenses in football. That's the very definition of great. It's safe to say Wilson was drafted by the right team at the right time but that's sports. If he went to Miami or the Jets maybe they fuck him up maybe they don't. Doesn't matter. He's in Seattle kicking ass.
And a lot of credit goes to his head coach, OC and GM. They genuinely 100% built a team around Wilson, and a style of offense too. Not just the zone read but the scramble drill. If you can get receivers open after 7-10 seconds, then nobody will keep a play alive long enough quite like him....at least consistently.
I read a PFF article that says the Seahawks are the best zone read team in the league, and they do attribute Wilson to that.
Some of my knocks on Wilson:
1. Historically has not played great in playoffs - Wins games, but bailed out a few times by his defense (Green Bay, 2014 NFCC). The 2013 season capped off by a dominant super Bowl but eked out home wins against New Orleans and SF.
Last year in Minnesota he didn't do anything until a broken play worked to his advantage (they almost always do). Then he didn't do anything for the first half of the Panther game.
All of this after a big regular season.
2. His struggles against the Rams: Somehow someway the Rams defense have stymied that offense and Wilson as well. That defense tends to do better against him than they do other teams, even in the division.
Now you can argue about divisional opponents having someone's #, but the Rams aren't particularly great.
It's a battle for life rooting against the guy but I'm not ready to annoint the guy until I see him carry the Seahawks better in the playoffs.
A very fair standard to hold him to.
3. Jimmy Graham disappeared. Used to be a matchup issue for teams, and this trade was supposed to send shockwaves throughout the NFC....it hasn't and I doubt it ever will to the extent it used to.
And here, perception defends the guy....
Replace Wilson with the following and tell me if anyone is calling for Head Coach/OC head:
Romo
Kaepernick
Griffin
Newton
Eli
Very few have publicly blamed Wilson. Throw could have been better....safer. If he had audible power, a different throw or pass/run option would have been better.