I curse the 90s Knicks not because they failed in 94 (they didn't get beaten by a better team, they failed). But because they made me fall in love with this franchise. I can't NOT care about them, and yet year after motherfucking year, they are the Cleveland Browns of basketball.
What's next? New uniform?
Lebron is on notice. Melo is all in. Phil got his pieces now Â
It is a one year deal. This is not the right way to build around Porzingis.
Why not go after whiteside for $22mm per year if your going to pay Noah $18mm or sign Mozgov for $10mm a year. 3 of the starting 5 players are eztremely injury prone and assuming this is a 4 year deal, then your going to be stuck with Noah and Melo together for another 3 years as the continue their declines and injury riddled seasons. The rose trade on its own is fine with me, but this combo is just really dumb.
Just because the WP says $18 million, it doesn't make it so. Â
Where would they get that # if Phil can't talk to JN until 12:01 AM tonight? Obviously it's JN's agents floating that #. Now $18 mill in this cap year is not extreme but one would hope it's a little bit less than that. i think by tomorrow we'll have our answer.
Love it. Just because a guy has had injuries in the past Â
Where would they get that # if Phil can't talk to JN until 12:01 AM tonight? Obviously it's JN's agents floating that #. Now $18 mill in this cap year is not extreme but one would hope it's a little bit less than that. i think by tomorrow we'll have our answer.
This. The number is obviously coming from Noah's side, which is fine. For those whiners out there, that is still signifacntly lower than the max, which whiteside will get. We still will have enough room for someone like Courtney lee and a backup pg
Pretty good article breaking down the possible Hornacek offense Â
It speculates we have 37mill including 4 cap holds. I have seen anywhere from 29 to 37. Hopefully this is close as we would still have 19 mill left over and possibly more if we renounce some of the cap holds.
more and more each year I'm disagreeing with the title or bust philosophy of the NBA. There is no value in being irrelevant. The Knicks have been irrelevant since 2001 minus 2012. There is value in being the Atlanta Hawks. Make the playoffs, maybe win a round. That's fine. There are only 3-4 teams that can win a title anyway. I like the move.
If you learn anything from NBA free agency, the stars will not go to a rebuilding team. They want to go to winning teams, that are just a player or two away.
The Knicks have to make the playoffs, maybe win a round and then the 2017 class: Westbrook, Paul, Lebron, probably Durant again, Curry, Griffin, Lowry.
Also, although Noah can be injury prone, he generally plays 70 gams or so including playoffs. Two years ago, he played in 79 games including the playoffs. Also his injury was his shoulder (not knee or ankle) had surgery, and is supposedly healthy. And he's not 36 or 37, he is 31.
Finally, the money that will be tossed around will make $18m look like a fairly average deal for a player who was defensive player of the year, has won wherever he has played and an ideal teammate.
Noah at 18 million seems high for me, but it is market value. Teams will not be getting Centers cheap. Im curious as to the length of the deal. Would feel much better if it is a 3 year deal.
Core would be:
Noah
Porzingis
Anthony
Rose
Defenitely more skill and ability that Lopez/Porzingis/Anthony/Calderon, but can they stay healthy? Defensively Rose and Noah have proven they are one of the best at defending screen rolls. Clearly this was an objective for the Knicks. Get better in moving defensively and being able to run the floor quicker in transition. As a post sprinter, Noah is much better than Lopez. The only area Lopez is better than Noah is post ups. The rest is either same or Noah is better. I believe a key part of Noahs game that they want over Lopez is the passing skill. Noah has had seasons where he averaged over 5 asssists a game. Really good at setting a pick or coming up into the high post and facilitating. Last year our high man with assists was Melo at 4. If Noah signs, we have two guys here able to help Melo there.
In terms of next year, really could use 1-2 stand out 3 point shooters at the wings. Maybe where rest of the money goes.
Rest assure skill wise Noah is outstanding for a 4th best player, supportimg Center. Thompson of the Cavs makes similar money and is a lesser talent. What Im worried about if we sign Noah is how healthy he will be over his 3-4 year deal. I can not see this being a 1 year deal. Too many teams competing
more and more each year I'm disagreeing with the title or bust philosophy of the NBA. There is no value in being irrelevant. The Knicks have been irrelevant since 2001 minus 2012. There is value in being the Atlanta Hawks. Make the playoffs, maybe win a round. That's fine. There are only 3-4 teams that can win a title anyway. I like the move.
Look, I cant say that the bottom out rebuild model is "better". Except to note how titles tend to be won by teams anchored by very high picks.
BUT... pointing to the last 15 years of Knicks history to back your point is ridiculous. The last 15 years of Knicks history is the evidence FOR doing a proper rebuild rather than trying to get better every year. Knicks didnt blow assets on Francis and McDyess etc. because they wanted to rebuild and be irrelevant; rather those mistakes happened because they were too desperate to be relevant.
Of Eric Gordon. If Knicks manage to get both Noah and Gordon. This will be a high risk injury team that if it can stay healthy will be an extremely talented and well balanced one. Eric Gordon - ( New Window )
(Or proposed one) no matter what it is. Other than Maybe LBJ, Curry or Durant, but they probably would have a problem with that too. How about we need to make changes cause what we have isn't winning? Ever think of that one? Phil has two players (forget KO) committed for next year. Let's give him a shot before putting your "panties" in an uproar!
when he starting talking up the shitty Eastern Conference and basically saying "Why not us?"
It worried me at the time, but I can't get too worked up over essentially trading Lopez, Grant and Calderon for Rose, Noah and Holiday. If they gave Noah four years, it's a problem, but let's wait and see. It's not like they traded a thousand draft picks for a washed up Pierce and KG.
RE: it seems what knicks fans want from the knicks Â
Every Knick fan wants to build and I believe that's what they are doing. One year contracts to Rose doesn't stop this. Melo has a no trade. What Phil is doing is giving it a shot. If it busts Melo maybe more agreeable to movement (next year?) when we could attract a strong free agent class with a lot of $, and maybe pick up draft choices ( looks to be an extremely strong draft) and continue the rebuild. You can't pull a Philly in NY the Meca of basketball. I believe the plan is still in process around KP.
RE: Love it. Just because a guy has had injuries in the past Â
(Or proposed one) no matter what it is. Other than Maybe LBJ, Curry or Durant, but they probably would have a problem with that too. How about we need to make changes cause what we have isn't winning? Ever think of that one? Phil has two players (forget KO) committed for next year. Let's give him a shot before putting your "panties" in an uproar!
They aren't winning regardless. You're just shuffling around highly expensive and very fragile deck chairs, and praying they don't play to form and get injured again.
You're just a whinny bitch! If you think Lopez, Grant or Calderon should be part of the rebuild not only are you a constant crybaby but I personally thought you had more intelligence. That being said nothing Phil has done since he has been her jeopardizes our future it only helps. He kept first rounders, got rid of contracts (Chandler, JR, shump, Lopez), stripped us down as is starting to mold his team. All in two years. Give it a chance.
On the fence with this one ,I like noah as a player but I just worry with the injuries. I would really like to see us get Whiteside instead .Btw do the Knicks still own Jimmer Fredette’s rights I didn’t see him on the summer league roster
Look the issue with Noah is the health. That said other then last year he usually played around 65 games plus the playoffs. If we can get 70 games from him id consider that a win. Look he is a better player then Lopez. Better defender, better rebounder, MUCH better passer (elite big man passer), prolly a slightly worse offensive player, but its not like Lopez is his brother on the offensive end.
Im not going to stress until i see the actual deal. LIke is it 2/36, id be ok with that. Or is it 4/72, id be pissed about that.
Rose Lee Melo kp noah if healthy can be the 2nd best team in the east, that is a pretty big improvement from last year and they will have some more money next to year to add to this Core as well...
If it gets durant then its the greatest move in NBA history.... if it doesnt then it seems we are just moving the goal posts here.
If the Knicks don't get Durant, what are they supposed to do? With KP, Rose and Melo they'll be too good to fully tank anyway. With Noah they have an outside shot at the ECF. Then in 17, with cap room, you never know.
Seems some people are missing the difference in FA in the NBA Â
& the NFL. The Knicks aren't going to be able to lure the top FA's unless they start winning. 2017 might be the greatest year for star FA's in the NBA. In the NFL, as long as you have cap space,you can blow other teams out of the water(see Olivier Vernon) but in the NBA you can only offer Max which is the same for every team that is not the player's original team. So Phil is putting together what he believes is a winning team, one that hopefully can get to the playoffs.We weren't able to lure Greg Fucking Monroe here last year & KD obviously isn't coming this year.Maybe these moves don't pan out & all the doomsayers on here are right. But, if the Knicks have a good year this year, July 1st, 2017 might be something special.
The Knicks have roughly $30 million to spend in free agency and hope to fit Noah into that space while keeping enough room to add a starting shooting guard. Courtney Lee and Eric Gordon are among the guards the Knicks have a level of interest in, sources say.
RE: RE: it seems what knicks fans want from the knicks Â
If the Knicks don't get Durant, what are they supposed to do? With KP, Rose and Melo they'll be too good to fully tank anyway. With Noah they have an outside shot at the ECF. Then in 17, with cap room, you never know.
Cap room + strong playoff showing + core pieces locked (Melo/KP/Noah?) = actual chance to add a legit FA, not just the typical offseason BS rumors
this guy is never healthy. Unless he was coming on a 1 year deal i dont want him. Especially when you are already going to have a couple injury risks in the lineup.
RE: it seems what knicks fans want from the knicks Â
If it gets durant then its the greatest move in NBA history.... if it doesnt then it seems we are just moving the goal posts here.
It's easy to make posts like these when you just take different opinions from different people and mesh them together to make it look like one giant conglomerate of flip flopping.
I want the Knicks to build an actual contender and I don't care how long that takes. I'm not interested in being the Hawks or Bulls of recent years. Teams that make the playoffs but can't get out of the East and have no chance. Winning a playoff round does nothing for me. I'm not interested in that.
Being stuck in NBA purgatory is terrible. If the Knicks can't put together a team that can truly compete, I'd rather they suck and take their chances adding another talented young player in the draft. I've always found it completely pointless to have the goal of "let's just make the playoffs and see what happens" in the NBA. It's an exercise in futility and just leads to spinning your wheels for years.
contract for NYK unless it's only one year. We all know about him missing months at a time for multiple seasons with all sorts of injuries, but even when he plays, his game has been in decline. I think his upside at this point in his career is an energy big off of the bench for a contending team.
If you're going to spend $18M per year for Noah on a 4 year deal you might as well just sign Dwight Howard.
Sean has a point, but he has a completely different reaction to it than I do. It's true, only 3 or 4 teams have a chance at the title every year, but that means that everyone else is irrelevant. The Hawks are every bit as irrelevant as the Knicks. Three or four contenders, and everyone else is a glorified version of the Washington Generals.
RE: Seems some people are missing the difference in FA in the NBA Â
& the NFL. The Knicks aren't going to be able to lure the top FA's unless they start winning. 2017 might be the greatest year for star FA's in the NBA. In the NFL, as long as you have cap space,you can blow other teams out of the water(see Olivier Vernon) but in the NBA you can only offer Max which is the same for every team that is not the player's original team. So Phil is putting together what he believes is a winning team, one that hopefully can get to the playoffs.We weren't able to lure Greg Fucking Monroe here last year & KD obviously isn't coming this year.Maybe these moves don't pan out & all the doomsayers on here are right. But, if the Knicks have a good year this year, July 1st, 2017 might be something special.
You are correct that you can only draw free agents with winning, but there's quick fixes, which is what we're doing now, and sustainable winning.
Collecting a bunch of veterans with injury concerns isn't winning. it's quick fix. Noah isn't a long term fix. Rose probably isn't. It's fools gold, like the 2012 team that won a lot, but you knew all those players would be gone, and they had no future.
Even if the Knicks have a good season, it'll be because of players that aren't going to be here long term. What free agent is buying into that? You can't sell to a free agent that the NY Knicks know how to build a winner when all they do is chase their tails for big names that have been cast out from their former teams. Just having the desire and willingness to spend money isn't a measure of being able to build a winner. This is probably why they can't get anyone they want to come here.
No one will agree with me but I'd rather have Howard than Noah. At least with D12, the Knicks would have a ceiling high enough to have a chance. I wouldn't bet on them but a D12/KP/Melo frontcourt with Rose running the point could actually be exciting if it worked out. Would it? Probably not.. but I'd rather take a shot on something like that than throw 18M at Noah.
this guy is never healthy. Unless he was coming on a 1 year deal i dont want him. Especially when you are already going to have a couple injury risks in the lineup.
Maybe we sign Gordon and Noah, and then Phil goes into the setting menu and turns off injuries. I used to do that when I played video games.
No one will agree with me but I'd rather have Howard than Noah. At least with D12, the Knicks would have a ceiling high enough to have a chance. I wouldn't bet on them but a D12/KP/Melo frontcourt with Rose running the point could actually be exciting if it worked out. Would it? Probably not.. but I'd rather take a shot on something like that than throw 18M at Noah.
I agree if the money is close. And even if it isnt, I'd rather give D12 term than give Noah term.
The idea that by signing guys who were stars years ago Â
We're building a winner is laughable. Adding a bunch of guys who weren't that good for teams that couldn't make the playoffs makes the Knicks an eastern conf contender?
I curse the 90s Knicks not because they failed in 94 (they didn't get beaten by a better team, they failed). But because they made me fall in love with this franchise. I can't NOT care about them, and yet year after motherfucking year, they are the Cleveland Browns of basketball.
What's next? New uniform?
If everybody stays healthy. It could work
If everybody stays healthy. It could work
A 31 year old center with an injury history and an above avg to very good pg with an injury history is considered having pieces?
Why not go after whiteside for $22mm per year if your going to pay Noah $18mm or sign Mozgov for $10mm a year. 3 of the starting 5 players are eztremely injury prone and assuming this is a 4 year deal, then your going to be stuck with Noah and Melo together for another 3 years as the continue their declines and injury riddled seasons. The rose trade on its own is fine with me, but this combo is just really dumb.
This. The number is obviously coming from Noah's side, which is fine. For those whiners out there, that is still signifacntly lower than the max, which whiteside will get. We still will have enough room for someone like Courtney lee and a backup pg
Agreeing that Lee might be the best fit for us.
Wash Post - ( New Window )
They money is just higher now. Every contract will be crazy if looking at it with an old lens.
The Knicks have to make the playoffs, maybe win a round and then the 2017 class: Westbrook, Paul, Lebron, probably Durant again, Curry, Griffin, Lowry.
Also, although Noah can be injury prone, he generally plays 70 gams or so including playoffs. Two years ago, he played in 79 games including the playoffs. Also his injury was his shoulder (not knee or ankle) had surgery, and is supposedly healthy. And he's not 36 or 37, he is 31.
Finally, the money that will be tossed around will make $18m look like a fairly average deal for a player who was defensive player of the year, has won wherever he has played and an ideal teammate.
Noah at 18 million seems high for me, but it is market value. Teams will not be getting Centers cheap. Im curious as to the length of the deal. Would feel much better if it is a 3 year deal.
Core would be:
Noah
Porzingis
Anthony
Rose
Defenitely more skill and ability that Lopez/Porzingis/Anthony/Calderon, but can they stay healthy? Defensively Rose and Noah have proven they are one of the best at defending screen rolls. Clearly this was an objective for the Knicks. Get better in moving defensively and being able to run the floor quicker in transition. As a post sprinter, Noah is much better than Lopez. The only area Lopez is better than Noah is post ups. The rest is either same or Noah is better. I believe a key part of Noahs game that they want over Lopez is the passing skill. Noah has had seasons where he averaged over 5 asssists a game. Really good at setting a pick or coming up into the high post and facilitating. Last year our high man with assists was Melo at 4. If Noah signs, we have two guys here able to help Melo there.
In terms of next year, really could use 1-2 stand out 3 point shooters at the wings. Maybe where rest of the money goes.
Rest assure skill wise Noah is outstanding for a 4th best player, supportimg Center. Thompson of the Cavs makes similar money and is a lesser talent. What Im worried about if we sign Noah is how healthy he will be over his 3-4 year deal. I can not see this being a 1 year deal. Too many teams competing
Knicks!
When he's younger, Bill Russell is better than both.
Look, I cant say that the bottom out rebuild model is "better". Except to note how titles tend to be won by teams anchored by very high picks.
BUT... pointing to the last 15 years of Knicks history to back your point is ridiculous. The last 15 years of Knicks history is the evidence FOR doing a proper rebuild rather than trying to get better every year. Knicks didnt blow assets on Francis and McDyess etc. because they wanted to rebuild and be irrelevant; rather those mistakes happened because they were too desperate to be relevant.
Eric Gordon - ( New Window )
rebuild- trade melo and get younger!
get injured guys that will heal!
pay up for vet--- now we want to be playoff team.
If it gets durant then its the greatest move in NBA history.... if it doesnt then it seems we are just moving the goal posts here.
Knicks!
Agreed. But that unfortunately is the market rate. I’d still pass at that price.
Well, as a Bulls fan we basically thought this every year and every year he was hurt. Its highly unlikely that trend reverses.
That said on a 1 year deal i like it for the Knicks, Rose too.
It worried me at the time, but I can't get too worked up over essentially trading Lopez, Grant and Calderon for Rose, Noah and Holiday. If they gave Noah four years, it's a problem, but let's wait and see. It's not like they traded a thousand draft picks for a washed up Pierce and KG.
rebuild- trade melo and get younger!
get injured guys that will heal!
pay up for vet--- now we want to be playoff team.
If it gets durant then its the greatest move in NBA history.... if it doesnt then it seems we are just moving the goal posts here.
When a fan base has more than 5 people, you tend to get differing opinions on the best path forward! :-)
Last thing I'd expect from a Giants fan...
They aren't winning regardless. You're just shuffling around highly expensive and very fragile deck chairs, and praying they don't play to form and get injured again.
Look the issue with Noah is the health. That said other then last year he usually played around 65 games plus the playoffs. If we can get 70 games from him id consider that a win. Look he is a better player then Lopez. Better defender, better rebounder, MUCH better passer (elite big man passer), prolly a slightly worse offensive player, but its not like Lopez is his brother on the offensive end.
Im not going to stress until i see the actual deal. LIke is it 2/36, id be ok with that. Or is it 4/72, id be pissed about that.
And for as horrific as he is offensively Bulls were only 1 point better when he was out
rebuild- trade melo and get younger!
get injured guys that will heal!
pay up for vet--- now we want to be playoff team.
If it gets durant then its the greatest move in NBA history.... if it doesnt then it seems we are just moving the goal posts here.
If the Knicks don't get Durant, what are they supposed to do? With KP, Rose and Melo they'll be too good to fully tank anyway. With Noah they have an outside shot at the ECF. Then in 17, with cap room, you never know.
If the Knicks don't get Durant, what are they supposed to do? With KP, Rose and Melo they'll be too good to fully tank anyway. With Noah they have an outside shot at the ECF. Then in 17, with cap room, you never know.
Cap room + strong playoff showing + core pieces locked (Melo/KP/Noah?) = actual chance to add a legit FA, not just the typical offseason BS rumors
rebuild- trade melo and get younger!
get injured guys that will heal!
pay up for vet--- now we want to be playoff team.
If it gets durant then its the greatest move in NBA history.... if it doesnt then it seems we are just moving the goal posts here.
It's easy to make posts like these when you just take different opinions from different people and mesh them together to make it look like one giant conglomerate of flip flopping.
I want the Knicks to build an actual contender and I don't care how long that takes. I'm not interested in being the Hawks or Bulls of recent years. Teams that make the playoffs but can't get out of the East and have no chance. Winning a playoff round does nothing for me. I'm not interested in that.
Being stuck in NBA purgatory is terrible. If the Knicks can't put together a team that can truly compete, I'd rather they suck and take their chances adding another talented young player in the draft. I've always found it completely pointless to have the goal of "let's just make the playoffs and see what happens" in the NBA. It's an exercise in futility and just leads to spinning your wheels for years.
If you're going to spend $18M per year for Noah on a 4 year deal you might as well just sign Dwight Howard.
You are correct that you can only draw free agents with winning, but there's quick fixes, which is what we're doing now, and sustainable winning.
Collecting a bunch of veterans with injury concerns isn't winning. it's quick fix. Noah isn't a long term fix. Rose probably isn't. It's fools gold, like the 2012 team that won a lot, but you knew all those players would be gone, and they had no future.
Even if the Knicks have a good season, it'll be because of players that aren't going to be here long term. What free agent is buying into that? You can't sell to a free agent that the NY Knicks know how to build a winner when all they do is chase their tails for big names that have been cast out from their former teams. Just having the desire and willingness to spend money isn't a measure of being able to build a winner. This is probably why they can't get anyone they want to come here.
Maybe we sign Gordon and Noah, and then Phil goes into the setting menu and turns off injuries. I used to do that when I played video games.
I agree if the money is close. And even if it isnt, I'd rather give D12 term than give Noah term.