surprised he's likely staying to be honest, only because he doesn't strike me as someone who is swayed by money.
What were his options if he wanted to win? OKC is as good a situation in the league outside of GS or SA, which wouldn't make sense for a few other reasons. Why would he leave a team that has a good chance of winning it all next season?
Win it all this season, not even considering their Horford pursuit.
The Cavs. Until someone improves in the East, it's the Cavs. Because OKC, GSW, and SAS need to get thru at least one of those teams (and if not them, probably a good LAC or MEM or other team as the 4 seed). Just to get to the Cavs, who have the best player. Cavs just have such an easier path. I probably under rate the Raptors, but the West is still way harder.
were always going to be for next FA after a 1+1 with OKC.
Next offseason will be bonkers. Curry will likely resign (but who knows -- he may want his meetings). OKC's top 2 come free. Blake and CP3 can opt out. Hayward, Lowry, Milsap too. Ibaka and Rose could have come back years.
surprised he's likely staying to be honest, only because he doesn't strike me as someone who is swayed by money.
What were his options if he wanted to win? OKC is as good a situation in the league outside of GS or SA, which wouldn't make sense for a few other reasons. Why would he leave a team that has a good chance of winning it all next season?
chance that KD signs, I have no idea what the Knicks are trying to do. Is the aim to hope that KP improves a ton and with this squad we become a 45+ win team? It's the lack of a coherent way forward that's most troubling about this offseason.
chance that KD signs, I have no idea what the Knicks are trying to do. Is the aim to hope that KP improves a ton and with this squad we become a 45+ win team? It's the lack of a coherent way forward that's most troubling about this offseason.
If rose and noah are healthy and they had a SG like Courtney lee no reason why this team can't be a 2-4 seed in the east...
And then you either let rose go or sign him and you still have another 15 to 20 million to spend
chance that KD signs, I have no idea what the Knicks are trying to do. Is the aim to hope that KP improves a ton and with this squad we become a 45+ win team? It's the lack of a coherent way forward that's most troubling about this offseason.
If rose and noah are healthy and they had a SG like Courtney lee no reason why this team can't be a 2-4 seed in the east...
And then you either let rose go or sign him and you still have another 15 to 20 million to spend
When you're committing big money and assets to gambles on health to try and top out in a weak conference (if that is indeed the "plan"), then count me out.
So going from 32 wins to 2nd in the east is a bad thing? Â
surprised he's likely staying to be honest, only because he doesn't strike me as someone who is swayed by money.
What were his options if he wanted to win? OKC is as good a situation in the league outside of GS or SA, which wouldn't make sense for a few other reasons. Why would he leave a team that has a good chance of winning it all next season?
I thought he would stay anyways but the oladipo trade probably sealed it and the news about horford made him cream his pants.
There are likely no magic elixir moves that will vault the Knicks to elite stats and Phil and the Knicks didn't have many opportunities to vault the team to elite status because prior regimes traded away picks. That's a fact. So the next time you complain and say you can't get behind any of these moves ask yourself what moves are even out there to be made? Last year included.
Even if they sign a guy like Noah, hopefully not a long term risk, The Knicks are basically taking baby steps to get better. There's nothing wrong with that. They took a flier on rose without really risking anything long term. Hopefully rose can upgrade the guard spot it's sorely needed.
Depending on who the 2 guard is, I see 45-50 wins next year Â
as long as the starting 5 stay relatively healthy. By that I mean 75 games for KP, 70+ for Melo and Rose, and 65+ for Noah. If they some how land Batum, I could see a couple more than 50 wins.
As was noted earlier, the cap will jump again next year, we will be able to make an educated decision on Rose, and should have a much easier time recruiting a marquee free agent next July coming off of a 45+ win season.
Nobody thinks these moves make the Knicks a title contender this year, but it's a more likely route to get there in the future than to just keep losing and hope the ping pong balls fall the right way.
If the Knicks drop multi max deals here but then we'd have to hope and pray the moves pay off. I don't sense it though. I think they will sign Noah to 2-3 year deal and a guy like Lee. They will then hope the team respnds to horn and at the same time possess all picks and (hopefully) cap room.
Joakim Noah - F/C - Bulls
Joakim Noah is reportedly "99 percent sure" that he'll join the Knicks as an unrestricted free agent.
Noah will meet with the Knicks on Friday, but it seems all but certain the New York native will be returning home this summer. Noah is reportedly set to earn an annual salary in the $18 million range, although Phil Jackson is trying to convince him to sign something closer to $15-$16 million in order to keep their options open of bringing in another impactful player during free agency. Noah will be the starting center in New York, but his injury history will make him a risky mid-round gamble on draft day.
Both of them healthy will get you a lot more wins. Remember, outside Cleveland, the East fucking blows.
(responding to everyone)
Lopez was a 6 win player. How many wins is Noah netting you at center? Assuming he doesnt match his career best season, at best Noah gets you +3 wins. Derrick Rose? Again, his 2nd best season is a net +2 wins over Calderon last year. Lets fib and call it +4 just for fun. You've gained 7 wins. Knock off one though because Grant is gone and Holiday isnt anything.
So net six wins. Who are you adding on top of that? I think Bazemore and Batum are unlikely. Bazemore's best season is 4 wins. Lets call him 5 here to be generous. Now you're +11 wins (Batum might net you 6; Lee 4) being generous. But the rest of your roster under performs last year. Williams (3.6 wins) and AA (2.7) cost 13 million, and with Noah and Baze/Batum, there isnt money to pay for premium depth. So you end up with a bunch of 0-2 win players, who dont net you anything over last year's 0-2 win players. So you're back down to +5 wins. Lets put our thumb on the scale again and say +8. Im REALLY being generous.
So to get to 57 wins and ~the #2 seed, Melo and KP have to get ~17 wins better. Melo was a 6.4 win player last year; best ever year was 10.7. I dont thnk he's in for a career year, but fuck it, lets give him 5 more wins. Now KP needs to create a minimum of 12 wins over his 4 from last year. Is KP a 16 win player in year 2? Usually 16 wins is better than the 2nd best player in the NBA. If I take my thumb off the scale from above he needs to be a low-20s win player, which means better than LeBron has ever been.
There is simply no plausible was for us to get the depth to be a 57 win team unless we hit 3-5 home runs in very cheap signings. Minimum salary guys who weirdly give 3-4 win performances.
to stop treating individual players as "wins". That's just not how it works in basketball. Players are dependent on each other and fit is vital. Probably moreso than any other sport.
A Rose-Lee-Melo-KP-Noah team "fits" together well, and there is plenty of reason to think the whole will be greater than the sum is its parts. The 3rd seed in the east won 48 games last year. I think this is a 50-55 win team, which should be in the 2-4 range in the East.
Is that a sure fire title contender? No. But barring signing Durant, what is the path to that that we can't still achieve. As I mentioned earlier, building NBA teams is 90% about what core 3-4 guys you can get in place, and everyone else is interchangeable. Lopez and Grant are never going to be apart of a core 3-4 guys on an NBA title team.
Eric Gordon, but his injury history scares me a bit. Him and Noah wouldn't be a bad haul. I don't know if they coudl fit Noah and Batum but that would be the dream scenario at this point (obviously KD out of mix).
Is leaning towards the Mavericks according to Bleacher Report.
They may not win 25 more games, but 48 wins got you the 3rd seed last year. I don't think an extra 16-17 wins is impossible. Especially if we had a decent SG. Obviously that's providing our guys stay healthy. Noah is a better player then RoLo. Rose is much better then Calderon. Melo should benefit from having those 2. KP is going to get better.
to stop treating individual players as "wins". That's just not how it works in basketball. Players are dependent on each other and fit is vital. Probably moreso than any other sport.
A Rose-Lee-Melo-KP-Noah team "fits" together well, and there is plenty of reason to think the whole will be greater than the sum is its parts. The 3rd seed in the east won 48 games last year. I think this is a 50-55 win team, which should be in the 2-4 range in the East.
Is that a sure fire title contender? No. But barring signing Durant, what is the path to that that we can't still achieve. As I mentioned earlier, building NBA teams is 90% about what core 3-4 guys you can get in place, and everyone else is interchangeable. Lopez and Grant are never going to be apart of a core 3-4 guys on an NBA title team.
Eh, it kind of is how it works. Sure there is some chemistry. But win shares explain a lot of teams records. They're not predictive, but I programmed in a lot of wiggle room. Fact is it will be very hard for us to fill out a decent roster that could let us get to high 50s wins. If we sign Noah and Lee, MAYBE would could make one Williams level signing. If it is Noah and Baze/Batum, very unlikely.
IMO 57 wins is magic thinking, barring Rose being a near MVP level player. Next best plan to get to 57 is probably one signing like a Noah/Baze type and then 3-5 guys for like 4-5 million each. Depth is really important.
Is leaning towards the Mavericks according to Bleacher Report.
They may not win 25 more games, but 48 wins got you the 3rd seed last year. I don't think an extra 16-17 wins is impossible. Especially if we had a decent SG. Obviously that's providing our guys stay healthy. Noah is a better player then RoLo. Rose is much better then Calderon. Melo should benefit from having those 2. KP is going to get better.
I wouldnt bet the over, but I dont think 48 wins is a crazy outcome.
RE: Still dont understand this specific Noah news Â
Noah/Willy
KP/O'Quinn
Melo/Thomas
Lee/Galloway/Holiday
Rose/Vasquez (or someone of the like)
That's far from a terrible bench. No one there will win 6th man of the year, but there are decent backups at each position and a lot of two way players.
I think they could go up by 15 wins or so if we land Noah, Â
“We have money, we have attractive pieces, the three guys, so I feel pretty confident we’re going to get a good player,’’ Hornacek said Thursday after summer-league practice. “With the addition of Derrick Rose, we have Melo and Kristaps, it’s an attractive place to come. … We got a great crop to work around to help us back into the playoffs.’’
Hornacek said the triangle offense is sweet for a center, and Robin Lopez proved that last season when he emerged as a major low-post option. That is expected to be conveyed to Noah at the meeting as the Knicks look to add a big, scrappy body next to 7-foot-3 forward Kristaps Porzingis. The free-agent recruiting period begins at 12:01 a.m. Friday, but the Knicks won’t be burning the midnight oil with Noah.
Hornacek was asked about his sales pitch to the elite centers.
“The biggest thing for the guys is look at some of the main components we have,’’ Hornacek said. “If they know they can go to a team that can win, that helps. We obviously want to solidify the defense from that spot. Robin was a guy who was very good at protecting the basket. We want that. We want a guy who can do it all. You can’t be one-dimensional in this league.
“He’s got to have a little bit of ability whether he can finish underneath, move around, make some midrange shots. We want that ability,’’ Hornacek added. “Not just be a guy who’s going to set picks all the time, but going to be involved a little bit more than a lot of teams in the league. … A lot of those [triangle] aspects, you’re going to have touches and make plays out of it. Maybe in early offense, in the open court, now you can set some picks and roll.”
You can't undervalue the importance of real depth. Optimism isn't going to do anything on the court if Rose misses any time. The team becomes just as challenged as this past year.
I was just listening to Hornacek on the MSG free agent show tonight, and he was saying how the guys they want to meet with have been receptive so far. Clearly there's a lot of chatter already going on.
Are going to offer a 5 year 115 million dollar deal to Harrison Barnes at 12:01. That's a lot of loot
wow, big bucks. Hard to see how we're gonna land a bench with the money teams are throwing around.
Maybe I am missing something but with there still being the same amount of players in the league and if more teams are throwing larger money at targeted key players it stands to reason because of the cap there has to be that many more players not receiving such large offers that will be available.
What were his options if he wanted to win? OKC is as good a situation in the league outside of GS or SA, which wouldn't make sense for a few other reasons. Why would he leave a team that has a good chance of winning it all next season?
The Cavs. Until someone improves in the East, it's the Cavs. Because OKC, GSW, and SAS need to get thru at least one of those teams (and if not them, probably a good LAC or MEM or other team as the 4 seed). Just to get to the Cavs, who have the best player. Cavs just have such an easier path. I probably under rate the Raptors, but the West is still way harder.
Next offseason will be bonkers. Curry will likely resign (but who knows -- he may want his meetings). OKC's top 2 come free. Blake and CP3 can opt out. Hayward, Lowry, Milsap too. Ibaka and Rose could have come back years.
Quote:
surprised he's likely staying to be honest, only because he doesn't strike me as someone who is swayed by money.
What were his options if he wanted to win? OKC is as good a situation in the league outside of GS or SA, which wouldn't make sense for a few other reasons. Why would he leave a team that has a good chance of winning it all next season?
I figured he'd end up with GSW.
Fwiw
If rose and noah are healthy and they had a SG like Courtney lee no reason why this team can't be a 2-4 seed in the east...
And then you either let rose go or sign him and you still have another 15 to 20 million to spend
Quote:
chance that KD signs, I have no idea what the Knicks are trying to do. Is the aim to hope that KP improves a ton and with this squad we become a 45+ win team? It's the lack of a coherent way forward that's most troubling about this offseason.
If rose and noah are healthy and they had a SG like Courtney lee no reason why this team can't be a 2-4 seed in the east...
And then you either let rose go or sign him and you still have another 15 to 20 million to spend
When you're committing big money and assets to gambles on health to try and top out in a weak conference (if that is indeed the "plan"), then count me out.
And after this free agency it's not like they will be capped out, they will still have money and draft picks to help add to core...
And yes the hope is kp eventually becomes the number 1 option
Quote:
surprised he's likely staying to be honest, only because he doesn't strike me as someone who is swayed by money.
What were his options if he wanted to win? OKC is as good a situation in the league outside of GS or SA, which wouldn't make sense for a few other reasons. Why would he leave a team that has a good chance of winning it all next season?
I thought he would stay anyways but the oladipo trade probably sealed it and the news about horford made him cream his pants.
If healthy that starting 5 can't finish between the 2 through 4 seeds?
Hawks are going to take a step back, Heat are going to take a step back...
Why can't they if those guys are healthy? Granted it's a big if but it's worth the risk
And after this free agency it's not like they will be capped out, they will still have money and draft picks to help add to core...
And yes the hope is kp eventually becomes the number 1 option
Where is this number even coming from? The highest it has been predicted is 108-109M.
Quote:
And stop looking at the dollar amount everyone soon. Will be that big soon, next year the cap will be 115 million...
And after this free agency it's not like they will be capped out, they will still have money and draft picks to help add to core...
And yes the hope is kp eventually becomes the number 1 option
Where is this number even coming from? The highest it has been predicted is 108-109M.
I saw 112-115 just like this year the cap was a few million more than originally predicted
People are still using their NBA 2K12 rosters. Update them already.
Do you always feel the need to show up on threads to shit on the Knicks? We get it. You hate the Knicks.
So that's it? Noah and Rose are the only moves? The Knicks won't do anything else the rest of the offseason?
Yikes. They're gonna be a bit short handed.
Both of them healthy will get you a lot more wins. Remember, outside Cleveland, the East fucking blows.
It's not just rose and noah it's also Courtney lee...
Also a jump for kp...
Also a better coach in hornacek...
Which team scares you?! How many teams you can clearly say without a doubt are clearly better than the Knicks... Hawks, Hornets, Heat, etc?
I saw nothing but limited teams in the EC playoffs. I think Phil sees an opportunity to strike in a very weak conference and is going for it.
Even if they sign a guy like Noah, hopefully not a long term risk, The Knicks are basically taking baby steps to get better. There's nothing wrong with that. They took a flier on rose without really risking anything long term. Hopefully rose can upgrade the guard spot it's sorely needed.
As was noted earlier, the cap will jump again next year, we will be able to make an educated decision on Rose, and should have a much easier time recruiting a marquee free agent next July coming off of a 45+ win season.
Nobody thinks these moves make the Knicks a title contender this year, but it's a more likely route to get there in the future than to just keep losing and hope the ping pong balls fall the right way.
Joakim Noah is reportedly "99 percent sure" that he'll join the Knicks as an unrestricted free agent.
Noah will meet with the Knicks on Friday, but it seems all but certain the New York native will be returning home this summer. Noah is reportedly set to earn an annual salary in the $18 million range, although Phil Jackson is trying to convince him to sign something closer to $15-$16 million in order to keep their options open of bringing in another impactful player during free agency. Noah will be the starting center in New York, but his injury history will make him a risky mid-round gamble on draft day.
Also tells me that the years are agreed upon.
Quote:
aint getting you +25 games. Come the fuck on.
Both of them healthy will get you a lot more wins. Remember, outside Cleveland, the East fucking blows.
(responding to everyone)
Lopez was a 6 win player. How many wins is Noah netting you at center? Assuming he doesnt match his career best season, at best Noah gets you +3 wins. Derrick Rose? Again, his 2nd best season is a net +2 wins over Calderon last year. Lets fib and call it +4 just for fun. You've gained 7 wins. Knock off one though because Grant is gone and Holiday isnt anything.
So net six wins. Who are you adding on top of that? I think Bazemore and Batum are unlikely. Bazemore's best season is 4 wins. Lets call him 5 here to be generous. Now you're +11 wins (Batum might net you 6; Lee 4) being generous. But the rest of your roster under performs last year. Williams (3.6 wins) and AA (2.7) cost 13 million, and with Noah and Baze/Batum, there isnt money to pay for premium depth. So you end up with a bunch of 0-2 win players, who dont net you anything over last year's 0-2 win players. So you're back down to +5 wins. Lets put our thumb on the scale again and say +8. Im REALLY being generous.
So to get to 57 wins and ~the #2 seed, Melo and KP have to get ~17 wins better. Melo was a 6.4 win player last year; best ever year was 10.7. I dont thnk he's in for a career year, but fuck it, lets give him 5 more wins. Now KP needs to create a minimum of 12 wins over his 4 from last year. Is KP a 16 win player in year 2? Usually 16 wins is better than the 2nd best player in the NBA. If I take my thumb off the scale from above he needs to be a low-20s win player, which means better than LeBron has ever been.
There is simply no plausible was for us to get the depth to be a 57 win team unless we hit 3-5 home runs in very cheap signings. Minimum salary guys who weirdly give 3-4 win performances.
I feel like some source is running his mouth without knowledge. It makes way more sense than the Knicks negotiating with Noah before 7/1.
A Rose-Lee-Melo-KP-Noah team "fits" together well, and there is plenty of reason to think the whole will be greater than the sum is its parts. The 3rd seed in the east won 48 games last year. I think this is a 50-55 win team, which should be in the 2-4 range in the East.
Is that a sure fire title contender? No. But barring signing Durant, what is the path to that that we can't still achieve. As I mentioned earlier, building NBA teams is 90% about what core 3-4 guys you can get in place, and everyone else is interchangeable. Lopez and Grant are never going to be apart of a core 3-4 guys on an NBA title team.
They may not win 25 more games, but 48 wins got you the 3rd seed last year. I don't think an extra 16-17 wins is impossible. Especially if we had a decent SG. Obviously that's providing our guys stay healthy. Noah is a better player then RoLo. Rose is much better then Calderon. Melo should benefit from having those 2. KP is going to get better.
A Rose-Lee-Melo-KP-Noah team "fits" together well, and there is plenty of reason to think the whole will be greater than the sum is its parts. The 3rd seed in the east won 48 games last year. I think this is a 50-55 win team, which should be in the 2-4 range in the East.
Is that a sure fire title contender? No. But barring signing Durant, what is the path to that that we can't still achieve. As I mentioned earlier, building NBA teams is 90% about what core 3-4 guys you can get in place, and everyone else is interchangeable. Lopez and Grant are never going to be apart of a core 3-4 guys on an NBA title team.
Eh, it kind of is how it works. Sure there is some chemistry. But win shares explain a lot of teams records. They're not predictive, but I programmed in a lot of wiggle room. Fact is it will be very hard for us to fill out a decent roster that could let us get to high 50s wins. If we sign Noah and Lee, MAYBE would could make one Williams level signing. If it is Noah and Baze/Batum, very unlikely.
IMO 57 wins is magic thinking, barring Rose being a near MVP level player. Next best plan to get to 57 is probably one signing like a Noah/Baze type and then 3-5 guys for like 4-5 million each. Depth is really important.
They may not win 25 more games, but 48 wins got you the 3rd seed last year. I don't think an extra 16-17 wins is impossible. Especially if we had a decent SG. Obviously that's providing our guys stay healthy. Noah is a better player then RoLo. Rose is much better then Calderon. Melo should benefit from having those 2. KP is going to get better.
I wouldnt bet the over, but I dont think 48 wins is a crazy outcome.
I feel like some source is running his mouth without knowledge. It makes way more sense than the Knicks negotiating with Noah before 7/1.
It's a good point. Are their any loopholes which allow agents to talk early, but players can't meet til midnight?
Noah/Willy
KP/O'Quinn
Melo/Thomas
Lee/Galloway/Holiday
Rose/Vasquez (or someone of the like)
That's far from a terrible bench. No one there will win 6th man of the year, but there are decent backups at each position and a lot of two way players.
Hornacek said the triangle offense is sweet for a center, and Robin Lopez proved that last season when he emerged as a major low-post option. That is expected to be conveyed to Noah at the meeting as the Knicks look to add a big, scrappy body next to 7-foot-3 forward Kristaps Porzingis. The free-agent recruiting period begins at 12:01 a.m. Friday, but the Knicks won’t be burning the midnight oil with Noah.
Hornacek was asked about his sales pitch to the elite centers.
“The biggest thing for the guys is look at some of the main components we have,’’ Hornacek said. “If they know they can go to a team that can win, that helps. We obviously want to solidify the defense from that spot. Robin was a guy who was very good at protecting the basket. We want that. We want a guy who can do it all. You can’t be one-dimensional in this league.
“He’s got to have a little bit of ability whether he can finish underneath, move around, make some midrange shots. We want that ability,’’ Hornacek added. “Not just be a guy who’s going to set picks all the time, but going to be involved a little bit more than a lot of teams in the league. … A lot of those [triangle] aspects, you’re going to have touches and make plays out of it. Maybe in early offense, in the open court, now you can set some picks and roll.”
Link - ( New Window )
wow, big bucks. Hard to see how we're gonna land a bench with the money teams are throwing around.
Quote:
Are going to offer a 5 year 115 million dollar deal to Harrison Barnes at 12:01. That's a lot of loot
wow, big bucks. Hard to see how we're gonna land a bench with the money teams are throwing around.
Maybe I am missing something but with there still being the same amount of players in the league and if more teams are throwing larger money at targeted key players it stands to reason because of the cap there has to be that many more players not receiving such large offers that will be available.