NFT: East coast transplants & residents too Northern California?

but not sure about some of the other stuff. I've been out to SF and it is a beautiful city. Some family moved out there and rents a small house. Housing is crazy expensive.
I found the below ling for you to look at. It might be the money they are offering you where you are compared to where you are going may actually end up being a pay cut vs cost of living.
Bankrate cost of living calc - ( New Window )

alone the SF Bay area might well be double NJ/NY.

And you or she may well have to deal with a horrendous commute around SF.

Be careful and investigate well. Be careful about where you choose to live, too so far as schools are concerned if you have or are planning to have kids.

but as long as you are outside NYC, I would guess that the cost of a house will be double if you stay near SF. Now lots of people live an hour or more away any commute from places like Pleasonton, etc., there you may be able to get the same house price. If she is in SF, then the best thing may be to go north towards Napa Valley. The prices drop off there. In general that is likely what you will need to do.

One example I can give you is I know a guy in Palo Alto, which is a top area in Silicon Valley. His 1,500 sq ft house built in the 1970's is worth $1.5M or so. I also know another who bought new construction in Palo Alto, 4,400 sq ft for $4.4M (on a small lot).

Having said all that there are tons of jobs in CA, the weather is great, the beach is close, and so are the mountains. Its a great environment to live. The only other drawback is the state tax is high, and you will be surrounded by 49er/Golden State/Shark/Giants or A's fans.

actually says he lives in North Carolina. The Cost of living is going to be way higher than double...

rent at first and see what you like. Its crazy expensive and with all the research discussing the San Andreas Fault right now, i'd be wary of buying and investing on property over there.

Then yes, more like 4-6 times for a house. Again though, with a 1 hour+ commute you could get that down to 2-3x more (or so). I depends on how much more money you are getting paid, the future potential, and the kind of life you want. I can tell you unequivocally that there are a ton more jobs in NoCal than in NC. Also most people I know who made the move like it there.

one big change - football starts at 9AM on Sundays. Friggen' weird the first time I was out there.

First 4th of July in San Fran was a surprise coming from NY the temp that day dipped to 44 as soon as the Fog rolled in around 8pm and the fireworks looked liked distant artillery going off like you would see in a movie.

With that said I know the NY/NJ market well and knew that was a good base in regards to housing costs and taxes. The jump from where we are at now is nuts in cost

PatersonPlank
Thank you for comparisons in regards to housing. I know the jump would be large in cost but had no idea that much. We purchased our home about 2 years ago for 535.000 5200 sq ft 4300 finished. 4.4 M for a 4400 Sq ft home is crazy! Granted I am a lot more frugal than my wife in regards to money.

I really appreciate all the info. This whole thing is very overwhelming for both of us right now.

From what you said you paid and the size I'd guess you have a half acre or more?

If you really compare apples to apples housing wise the SF area will cost x10 for housing.

Economically it would be a bad move for you, almost certainly.

After Fats reported what he pays in groceries recently. And the cost of real estate will be reflected in lots of other things too like restaurants..

We actually want to move down there in the next few years...

The outskirts of the Raleigh area. Great area and love it to be honest

The area we are in is a little pricey however the surrounding areas you get a lot more more you buck in regards to land.

very expensive for the land. The $4.4M new construction house I mentioned had a lot of like 10K sq feet (if I remember correctly). AS I said these are silicon valley comps, outside it gets cheaper (north or east). To get 2-3x what you are paying now you'll have a 1+ hr drive each way. Not bad, its a trade-off.

I will try and answer some of your questions:

My question’s and I am sure I may have more are as follows.
- What is the housing market like in this area
Ridiculous...I am sure you can get plenty of information online.

- Cost of living in comparison to N. Jersey NY area
Ridiculous...I am sure you can get plenty of information online.

- Taxes
They are pretty bad. They went up over 10% the fall after I moved here...first state raise in 11 years it was, I believe. I call this place "kleptofornia" for a reason. All this depends on the income as it is a "progressive" tax(es) of course. Not sure if you are referring to real estate or income. There is a website I used to compare take home pay in one state vs another as an analysis. I suggest you find it and use it for negotiating.
- Suggestion’s for areas to look at outside of the San Fran area
We chose Marin because the commute is very easy, although the only mass transit is the bus. Link is below. The bus can be great (golden gate transit) depending on where you live/work and the timing of when you work. There are also ferries from Larkspur (near where I live) and Sausalito and Tiburon. The ferry parking is a challenge unless you go in early.
Traffic is still a challenge on the commute home, but nothing compared to driving in the East Bay/across the Bay Bridge. REally is a piece of cake.

Can't speak much for the other areas outside of SF. The East Bay has BART, which a lot of people take to commute.
- How was your transition from east to west
Fine...I miss family and friends but the advantages here are really significant. People here are very different in some ways. Do a lot of research. The politics is completely one-sided and left of the che guevara.
- And do you and or did you like the area
This may be the most beautiful, greatest place to live in the world.
- What’s the weather like
Other than a fair amount of rain in some winters, it is spectacular. Warm/hot and sunny all day (outside of SF) and cool at night.
- Part 1 For those who transferred and returned did you retain your home on the east coast and was it worth the added expense of two mortgages.

We decided to rent here and rent out our home back east to keep things simple. The summer income of the place back east pays for itself and we can still use it in offseason. It's really nice not having to worry about owning here, but the rent is ridiculously expensive.
- Part 2 did you rent your home? This is something I have issues with but was hoping for some feedback.
You can certainly do this, depending on the market your home is in, but you really need people you trust to look after the place and deal with issues. We generally rent through brokers and let them deal with showing, etc. A year round rental, as I assume you need, is a different ball game.

You did not ask about schools. Not sure if you mentioned kids..maybe you are young. The schools here are out of this world. Many of these towns around SF have the best public schools in california and probably the country. I have three kids in the public schools in Marin and I am blown away with how well they are run and how much attention and care they give to the kids.

For commute/beauty/culture/nature/outdoor activities/schools, etc., there is a reason why a 3 bedroom house on a 1/2 acre costs 1.5 million.

Let me know if you have any other specific questions.

Good luck.

Link - ( New Window )

the cost of live, aside from housing, is mind-boggling.

The costs of garbage (150/mo..not that bad), water (low, but about 10-20x what NY charges), electric and gas (400-800/month for a house that barely uses heat and almost never a/c)...if you do not have solar, you are getting raped by the eco-terrorist system here. Doesn't seem to matter how you try and conserve.

Food can be very costly unless you are willing to go to Costco and the like. Much worse than NYC.

Do you ever go to the Flatiron Bar and Grill to watch Giants'games?

.

The cost of housing in SF is comparable to Manahttan. The difference here is that in the New York area you can go 20 miles outside of Manhattan in any direction and housing, though still expensive is a lot less. Not so in SF. San Mateo, Alameda, Santa Clara, Conta Costra and Marin counties are going to cost you almost as much. I'm excluding the demilitarized zones in Oakland where you wouldn't want to move to anyway. Traffic now is as bad as the New York area without a decent mass transit system to fall back on. On the good side, Utilities are a fraction of what they cost in New York since it never gets too cold or too hot.

Before you make a move out here you'd better square away your housing situation and make sure you'd be living in an area where the commute is not impossible.


All that being said, the quality of life here is among the best in the country. There is a lot to do, both in the cities and in the countryside. Where else are you going to find one of the most beautiful cities in the world and be close to both beaches and mountains and enjoy temperate weather throughout the year ?

Pre-DirecTV days (early 90's) I'd watch games at the FlatIron all the time. (I live in Novato.)

Quote:

The money they are offering her for the move is at least IMO crazy to pass up.

I would recommend having your wife's company pay for a trip out there to check it out for a few days. More than likely you will find that the money they are offering is not going to get you very far in purchasing a house in SF. The market is insane.

I live in 1200 SF loft in San Jose and they are selling consistently for $700,000.

The commutes are brutal also. Traffic on 580 in the morning starts at 530 AM from Livermore east.

Traffic on 101 north starts getting heavy at 530 am starting in Morgan Hill.


If you really like Cary, the money may not be worth it to move out to SF. It's a completely different culture.

In comment 13016003 CRinCA said:

Quote:

Pre-DirecTV days (early 90's) I'd watch games at the FlatIron all the time. (I live in Novato.)

CR we must have met. I particularly loved going there for the 2 pm EST games starting at 10 PST and having a nice brunch meal with a bloody Mary at halftime. Those were great crowds there.

In comment 13015958 BlueLou said:

Quote:

Do you ever go to the Flatiron Bar and Grill to watch Giants'games?

Lou- it's in San rafael. I know the place but never been inside. I have a dish for Giants games. Ordered it before the ink was dry on the job offer. I like in Larkspur actually.

In comment 13015958 BlueLou said:

Quote:

Do you ever go to the Flatiron Bar and Grill to watch Giants'games?

Lou- it's in San rafael. I know the place but never been inside. I have a dish for Giants games. Ordered it before the ink was dry on the job offer. I like in Larkspur actually.

Currently on the border of Palo Alto/Menlo Park. I hated NY and have been looking to get out for year, but the impetus was my gf getting a new job out here.

The housing prices are insane. Much higher than NY, but imho, the environment it worth. The weather is fantastic and anything you might be interested in - beaches, skiing, wine, hikin, camping, fishing is just a hop, skip and a jump away.

If you move, my suggestion would be to stay away from San Fran as its a shithole, imho. Just dirty. Much dirtier than I ever remember NY being, even during the 80s. My suggestions would be to look at the Silicon valley. San jose. Cupertino. Los Altos. Los Gatos. Sausalito. Again, assuming the cost of housing isn't prohibitive. Whatever you do, stay out of Oakland and anything near it.

Our plan is to move out of here within two years and out to Oregon or Colorado. But for the time being, it's great.

I was offered a transfer to SF years ago - the firm appraised my home and offered to put me in a home for the cost of my current mortgage. They said my Colorado Springs home was worth ~$250,000 and they told me I could buy a home up to $2.5MM. They would pay 20% down and the difference in the mortgage. After five years I was free of any obligation toward the home and owned any equity it held. They chose to do it this way and offer me a generous but not ridiculous raise. Ultimately I turned down the offer.

I'm curious how anyone could be sold on transferring from Raleigh NC to SF from a financial viewpoint alone, unless the increase in salary was by several hundred thousand dollars. Of course there are plenty of other reasons to consider outside the financial ones.

Another quick thought - 25 years ago the property taxes on my childhood home were ~$9k/yr. I was visiting this spring and learned they were now over $27K/yr. Not sure how long ago you left NJ (you said several years) but it's possible you might be off in your understanding of the NY/NJ cost of living, which has far surpassed inflation in other parts of the country.

In regards to going out there first to check things out her company will fork the bill for us to go out twice to visit the area and look at housing and such.

In regards to Dan’s question her company will sell our home for us provided we want them too. I addition if the home is sold for a loss they will pay up to 10% to true up the sale. I still have family my parents that live in N. Jersey so I am pretty familiar with the cost of living up there.

As I said in my earlier post we are both very happy here, love it in fact. With that said this move if she decides to take the position can catapult her career to a possible regional and or national partner position in the future. Monetarily speaking without going into numbers they would true up her salary based on other partners in that area in addition a 20% onetime compensation bonus for transferring for the job. It is a very large amount of money several hundreds of thousands that is the only reason we are even considering this move.

Her company would like a 5 year commitment from her for the position. After that if she wanted to the opportunity to return back here it would be available. They are really pushing for this move, she has been on a fast track for years now not just making partner but now in a partner leadership program. This opportunity for her is a game changer for her career.

It comes down to the change in environment and distance from our family and friends I believe. The money in all honesty is not the concern at all. With that said neither one of us would want to actually live in SF. The surrounding area is a possibility but we are accustomed to larger living space the 700 to 1400 sq ft living space neither of us could deal with.

Again Thanks for all the great input from all of you.

the cultural change as much as anything. If you are a lifelong East Coaster and see the relatively low cost of living in Cary with good schools and within a couple hour drive to either the beaches or the mountains, it will be culture shock to go to the Bay Area.

I had an offer to go to San Diego a few years ago. It is one of my favorite places to visit in the country and climate-wise might be the actual best, but I took a look at the housing costs, the cost of living costs and then the travel costs to come back to the East Coast for holidays or to have people visit and I couldn't pull the trigger.

I'm biased because I've been in the Charlotte area for 20 years now, but I can't imagine giving this up, with having a taste of all 4 seasons, being centrally located for travel anywhere up the coast, and having a very nice cost of living.

I will admit we have a great life here in Cary. And prior to her company approaching her, the last thing on our minds was moving let alone to the west coast. The area as well the easy travel to see family up north has been a blessing for everyone on both sides. And with the two of us in our mid to late 40’s and our parents not getting younger it’s nice to know we are 1 ½ hour flight away at most if needed.

We plan to visit at least twice out there in order to check the area prior to making a decision. This whole thing has really just hit us rather quickly and they are pushing for her to take the position. Not over night of coarse but have already sweetened the deal one time and she seems to think that will continue. I will be honest neither one of us know anything about California we have visited twice on our way to Hawaii and that’s it so we are pretty clueless.
It at this point is not all about the money she does very well here in this area. It is about her career and making the jump nationally and if the change is worth the sacrifice? Being so far from family seems to be the biggest issue so far and friend for that matter. But also the beach and mountains sounds like N. Cal is very similar in a lot of areas in regards to proximity to these.

tell them to double it.

"Yeah, they are all liberals out here until you disagree with them .... then they're fascists".

He wasn't even trying to be funny but, I laughed hard because I knew what he was talking about.

But I just wanted to add that if you do look around out here, don't hesitate to consider the East Bay. I moved out here from the east coast, and although the culture is different (less traditional, more individualistic) it has a very pleasant quality of life.

Despite what some of the other guys have said, Oakland is an up and coming city with (for better or worse) some of the fastest rising property values in the country, but still more reasonably priced than SF or Silicon Valley. The public schools are iffy there, but nearby towns like Piedmont, Berkeley, Alameda and Albany (where I live, a nice family-oriented town) have quite good schools. You do pay a premium for that, but again, still cheaper than on the peninsula. Further out, towns like Orinda, Lafayette and Morraga have great public schools, warmer weather and bigger lots, but you're further out and there's less diversity.

The commute by car into the city during rush hour is bad. I avoid it at all costs. But commuter rail service on the BART is okay (and is supposed to be upgraded in the coming years). There are also comfortable Trans-Bay express buses with WiFi. It really depends on where your wife's office is located.

Good luck with your decision.