NFT: 2nd terrorist attack in Occupied west bank area near Hebron

still alive and well.

In comment 13019921 bc4life said:

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still alive and well.

BC....a person not smart enough to understand the difference between people and ideology.

Consistent with the time, not outside the moral norms of the time. Butchering him specifically for that seems ridiculous. How is this a straw man? Most religions have laws that make no sense today. Restrictions on pork? Probably due to health concerns that no longer apply.

You clearly choose not to read my response. Which was its applicability today certainly should be brought into question. The practice of early forced marriage does not apply to Muslim Americans for example. In many cultures (like India for example) early marriage is across the board and Muslims adhere to this as well -there are practical reasons such as economic standing for family why this happens. Your implication is Islam by ideological mandate forced women into early marriage-why is this not happening in the west then? Where it does still happen, well, it's a mark against their society.

As far as mandated murder, the scripture game shows the old and New Testament has plenty of language supporting the same. Yes, jihadists are taking this literally and it's a problem globally. Have I argued otherwise?

We in the west were 73pct in favor of the Iraq war. A complete butcher job nonsense war. Did you support that war Mike?

I mentioned I'm agnostic. It's been clear you don't read the content of the posts.

in any argument to discuss the backgrounds of Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, etc.

If people today choose to follow things from thousands of years ago, that's on them, not the origins of the religion.

I wouldn't cast stones at L. Ron Hubbard for writing science fiction, but I sure as hell would mock the idiots who follow Scientology.

Why don't you take a shot at answering these questions ?

Do religious beliefs accepted in Islam cause the same harm as those of other religions ? If not, why ?

Does that include all religions ? Is the Islamic world at all culpable for the bloodshed it causes in the name of Allah, the Prophet and Islam ? Or can all the blame and troubles be laid at the feet of non-Muslims ?

In comment 13019931 hassan said:

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I mentioned I'm agnostic. It's been clear you don't read the content of the posts.

I call "bullshit."

Moral corruption in religion is fascinating, but it's not intellectually an expedient or efficient condemnation of religion or its application.

All belief systems have an element of relativism to time and place, some facets age better than others when applied to the current (albeit relative) time and place. Historical moral absolutism applied to any one thing will reveal weaknesses in the joints.

I'd like to think we live in somewhat of a post Nietzsche-ian age, where the boogieman of religion being this nefarious wind blowing unwitting man in the direction of the desire of the few is as hackneyed of a notion as Nietzsche posited a mystical sorcerous god granted wishes like a genie was.

Blaming Mohammad for the actions of modern extremist Islam is boring. More fascinating is the mental health, socio-economic, anthropological and geo-political factors that cause forced immigration, poverty, lack of healthcare, lack of education and desperation.

You also have to separate the belief from the actions. The human condition is predicated on the logical and illogical. What one does is far more important to social order than what one believes. If the actions are logical and the motivation illogical is that any less productive for society? Isn't it more productive to influence the actions than the beliefs?

Assuming condemnation or even destruction of the belief system is going to net anything, is as illogical as praying Zeus strikes the guy who stole your parking spot with lightening.

In comment 13019936 christian said:

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Moral corruption in religion is fascinating, but it's not intellectually an expedient or efficient condemnation of religion or its application. All belief systems have an element of relativism to time and place, some facets age better than others when applied to the current (albeit relative) time and place. Historical moral absolutism applied to any one thing will reveal weaknesses in the joints. I'd like to think we live in somewhat of a post Nietzsche-ian age, where the boogieman of religion being this nefarious wind blowing unwitting man in the direction of the desire of the few is as hackneyed of a notion as Nietzsche posited a mystical sorcerous god granted wishes like a genie was. Blaming Mohammad for the actions of modern extremist Islam is boring. More fascinating is the mental health, socio-economic, anthropological and geo-political factors that cause forced immigration, poverty, lack of healthcare, lack of education and desperation. You also have to separate the belief from the actions. The human condition is predicated on the logical and illogical. What one does is far more important to social order than what one believes. If the actions are logical and the motivation illogical is that any less productive for society? Isn't it more productive to influence the actions than the beliefs? Assuming condemnation or even destruction of the belief system is going to net anything, is as illogical as praying Zeus strikes the guy who stole your parking spot with lightening.

Except that the beliefs are the reason that Islam inspires and justifies suicide bombings, the killing of virtually everyone but devout Muslims and on and on.

Every other religion and ideology/belief system in the history of man has properly been discredited due to conflicts with human well-being.

The results from a human well-being standpoint have been revolutionary and beneficial. Why does Islam get a pass over and over ?

It is the worst of all of them, yet it is summarily protected by the left-leaning intelligentsia, regardless of the damage caused by its' beliefs.

Why do you think that is ?

In comment 13019936 christian said:

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Moral corruption in religion is fascinating, but it's not intellectually an expedient or efficient condemnation of religion or its application. All belief systems have an element of relativism to time and place, some facets age better than others when applied to the current (albeit relative) time and place. Historical moral absolutism applied to any one thing will reveal weaknesses in the joints. I'd like to think we live in somewhat of a post Nietzsche-ian age, where the boogieman of religion being this nefarious wind blowing unwitting man in the direction of the desire of the few is as hackneyed of a notion as Nietzsche posited a mystical sorcerous god granted wishes like a genie was. Blaming Mohammad for the actions of modern extremist Islam is boring. More fascinating is the mental health, socio-economic, anthropological and geo-political factors that cause forced immigration, poverty, lack of healthcare, lack of education and desperation. You also have to separate the belief from the actions. The human condition is predicated on the logical and illogical. What one does is far more important to social order than what one believes. If the actions are logical and the motivation illogical is that any less productive for society? Isn't it more productive to influence the actions than the beliefs? Assuming condemnation or even destruction of the belief system is going to net anything, is as illogical as praying Zeus strikes the guy who stole your parking spot with lightening.

So I guess it is OK if we go back to burning witches ?

You are accusing me of being religious? I am sitting here eating during Ramadan. I drink regularly. I was born in NYC and have a secularist viewpoint. Committed plenty of sins in my life, I've been plenty critical of Islam even on this thread. In fact, I even criticized the prophet earlier Mike! So if I was so religious would I dare to do so?

Islam today, which represents a large swath of the poor nations and the losers of globalization, has multiple issues and is going through a humongous political upheaval.

There is nothing more inherently violent about Islamic societies when we consider the amount of violence generated compared to Europe UNTIL recently as of the last 25-50 years. Today YES, it is, for the reasons I
mentioned, along with wrongheaded responses to Israel, without making this a lengthy diatribe.

You don't think if large swaths of the Judaeo/Christian world were under the same political and social conditions as much of the Muslim world, there wouldn't be active factions resorting to desperation, manipulation, violence and deprecated tenants of their religion?

There's not a lot mystery in why Western Africa, Somalia, rural Philippines, Bangladesh, rural India, Syria, Iraq, disputed areas in rural Pakistan, rural Afghanistan etc. create and export terror.

There's a reason America, Kuwait and the UAE don't with the same intensity.

Very well put....

In comment 13019946 hassan said:

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You are accusing me of being religious? I am sitting here eating during Ramadan. I drink regularly. I was born in NYC and have a secularist viewpoint. Committed plenty of sins in my life, I've been plenty critical of Islam even on this thread. In fact, I even criticized the prophet earlier Mike! So if I was so religious would I dare to do so? Islam today, which represents a large swath of the poor nations and the losers of globalization, has multiple issues and is going through a humongous political upheaval. There is nothing more inherently violent about Islamic societies when we consider the amount of violence generated compared to Europe UNTIL recently as of the last 25-50 years. Today YES, it is, for the reasons I mentioned, along with wrongheaded responses to Israel, without making this a lengthy diatribe.

I'm not accusing you of anything except defending an ideology that is directly responsible for the death and persecution of millions of people, Muslim and non-Muslim.

You cannot seem to understand the harm caused by beliefs that God says it's OK to kill people in this day and age, because he said so.

A condemnation of some forms of jihad is not enough.

A contextualization of pedophilia in history is not enough.

A tepid attempt to blame "political" Islam is not enough.

Hiding behind "occupation" and sacrificing intellectual honesty and human well-being and universal morality is not enough.

Arguing that Islam gets a pass because of history is not enough.

Anything but acknowledging that this ideology is responsible for 28,000 deadly attacks since 9/11 is not enough.

In comment 13019948 christian said:

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You don't think if large swaths of the Judaeo/Christian world were under the same political and social conditions as much of the Muslim world, there wouldn't be active factions resorting to desperation, manipulation, violence and deprecated tenants of their religion? There's not a lot mystery in why Western Africa, Somalia, rural Philippines, Bangladesh, rural India, Syria, Iraq, disputed areas in rural Pakistan, rural Afghanistan etc. create and export terror. There's a reason America, Kuwait and the UAE don't with the same intensity.

What about the Christians, Yazidi's and Jews living in the ME. The ones who are being targeted by Isis and other groups. Do you see them committing acts of terror?

In comment 13019861 muhajir said:

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Because they didnt accept that ridiculous State proposal over a decade ago? Anyone that read the details knew it was an unacceptable deal. Do you think the Palestinian authority preferred to be under occupation rather then accepting the proposal and becoming the leaders of a new nation??

There were a number who thought the deal was not only acceptable, but as good a deal as they could ever expect. At this point, and given the divide between Hamas and Fatah, it is impossible for the Palestinian leadership to accept any deal that Israel would also agree to. And I don't see that changing in the next ten or twenty years or longer. So the cycle of war and ceasefire is destined to go on indefinitely with the Israelis prospering, but living in fear and tragedy; and the Palestinians living in death and squalor and under the oppression of their own corrupt and terrorist leadership.

So in such a stand-off, who needs to be saved from themselves the most? Who would benefit the most from a two-state solution being forced upon them whether they like it or not? The answer, of course, is the Palestinian people. Which is why I believe the only solution to the crisis is for the international community to step in and negotiate on behalf of the Palestinians an agreement with Israel that will be recogized as legitimate by America, Europe, Russia, China, Japan, and basically as many countries as possible.And then Hamas and Islamic Jihad need to be crushed, assuming they don't lay down their arms willingly.

And then the Palestinian people will finally free, free not of Israel, but of their own corrupt and terrorist leadership. Gaza is not the world's biggest open air prison, it's the world's biggest open air hostage crisis.

Including 15 kids

In comment 13019948 christian said:

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You don't think if large swaths of the Judaeo/Christian world were under the same political and social conditions as much of the Muslim world, there wouldn't be active factions resorting to desperation, manipulation, violence and deprecated tenants of their religion? There's not a lot mystery in why Western Africa, Somalia, rural Philippines, Bangladesh, rural India, Syria, Iraq, disputed areas in rural Pakistan, rural Afghanistan etc. create and export terror. There's a reason America, Kuwait and the UAE don't with the same intensity.

Ahhhh, so you actually think that Islam has good reasons for it ?

How many Tibetan buddhist suicide bombers have used the teachings in their religion to attack the Chinese ?

Your correct in implying you are not racist. But bigot, absolutely. BC called it right.

the members of a religion take some responsibility for the death and destruction created by the specific beliefs about how they worship and honor God ?

In comment 13019960 Mike in Marin said:

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the members of a religion take some responsibility for the death and destruction created by the specific beliefs about how they worship and honor God ?

Sorry, but I have to agree.

In comment 13019958 hassan said:

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Your correct in implying you are not racist. But bigot, absolutely. BC called it right.

Not true, but still much, much preferred to claiming that God gives me the right to murder and enslave others.

Stop changing the subject and answer the questions about Islam that I posed to you above, if you are brave enough.

In comment 13019961 Ned In Atlanta said:

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In comment 13019960 Mike in Marin said: Quote: the members of a religion take some responsibility for the death and destruction created by the specific beliefs about how they worship and honor God ? Sorry, but I have to agree.

Ned - There is NOTHING to be sorry for. It is completely rational to question fantasies masquerading as religious beliefs, to the extent that they cause pain to others and are immoral.

This is a basic principle of western liberalism and the reason we used to have free speech.

In comment 13019952 buford said:

Quote:

In comment 13019948 christian said: Quote: You don't think if large swaths of the Judaeo/Christian world were under the same political and social conditions as much of the Muslim world, there wouldn't be active factions resorting to desperation, manipulation, violence and deprecated tenants of their religion? There's not a lot mystery in why Western Africa, Somalia, rural Philippines, Bangladesh, rural India, Syria, Iraq, disputed areas in rural Pakistan, rural Afghanistan etc. create and export terror. There's a reason America, Kuwait and the UAE don't with the same intensity. What about the Christians, Yazidi's and Jews living in the ME. The ones who are being targeted by Isis and other groups. Do you see them committing acts of terror?

Over a long enough arc, and shifting balances of power, international influences, population growth and desperation? Yes, because ya know, they kind of did for 200-400 years.

I'm going to pull my toes out of the political and religious water, I'm more interested in the larger anthropological and philosophical aspects of moral corruption and regional history.

I'll leave it at this, if the larger Islamic community and faith denounced violence, spurred a reformation and purged all the monkey business about justified killings and all that, and if that really fixed the problem I'd be all for it.

I wouldn't recommend a giant hold of breath sesh if it happened.

You called bullshit when I said I was not religious, so you are spinning yet again.

I've condemned acts of terror. Plenty. You are not even reading my posts. I'm all for the destruction of Isis. Violently.

I guess all Muslims need to be held accountable for the acts of the jihadists. Tell me when you have the passion to argue all Americans should go to trial for the Iraq War.

and something that I am sure will be ignored/condemned/contested by my opponents on this thread.

My main problem is not with the history of Islam and the reasons for its' creation, or even the excuses used for its past behavior.

The problem that is hurtling our civilization towards destruction is that MOST of the western world and its' leaders have completely given up any form of criticism that might bring about the dialogue and put pressure on addressing this.

Instead, we have people refusing to use the term "Islam" in the discussion of terrorism. And they consistently tell us all religions have a bad history. Blah blah blah.

People need to start talking about the 800 lb elephant in the room.

Free speech anyone ?

Anyone ?

In comment 13019970 hassan said:

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You called bullshit when I said I was not religious, so you are spinning yet again. I've condemned acts of terror. Plenty. You are not even reading my posts. I'm all for the destruction of Isis. Violently. I guess all Muslims need to be held accountable for the acts of the jihadists. Tell me when you have the passion to argue all Americans should go to trial for the Iraq War.

No one is saying all Muslims should be held responsible for the actions of ISIS. But plenty of Americans were (at least with the benefit of hindsight) strongly opposed to the war in Iraq. But in the last week alone there have been three mass fatality atrocities and there has been one common denominator in all three.

In comment 13019970 hassan said:

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You called bullshit when I said I was not religious, so you are spinning yet again. I've condemned acts of terror. Plenty. You are not even reading my posts. I'm all for the destruction of Isis. Violently. I guess all Muslims need to be held accountable for the acts of the jihadists. Tell me when you have the passion to argue all Americans should go to trial for the Iraq War.

Wrong, as usual. I called "bullshit" on your claiming to be agnostic. I stand by it, given your blind defense of the ideas that cause hatred and terrorism in the world.

Now answer some of my questions or stop making a fool of yourself.

In comment 13019967 christian said:

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In comment 13019952 buford said: Quote: In comment 13019948 christian said: Quote: You don't think if large swaths of the Judaeo/Christian world were under the same political and social conditions as much of the Muslim world, there wouldn't be active factions resorting to desperation, manipulation, violence and deprecated tenants of their religion? There's not a lot mystery in why Western Africa, Somalia, rural Philippines, Bangladesh, rural India, Syria, Iraq, disputed areas in rural Pakistan, rural Afghanistan etc. create and export terror. There's a reason America, Kuwait and the UAE don't with the same intensity. What about the Christians, Yazidi's and Jews living in the ME. The ones who are being targeted by Isis and other groups. Do you see them committing acts of terror? Over a long enough arc, and shifting balances of power, international influences, population growth and desperation? Yes, because ya know, they kind of did for 200-400 years. I'm going to pull my toes out of the political and religious water, I'm more interested in the larger anthropological and philosophical aspects of moral corruption and regional history. I'll leave it at this, if the larger Islamic community and faith denounced violence, spurred a reformation and purged all the monkey business about justified killings and all that, and if that really fixed the problem I'd be all for it. I wouldn't recommend a giant hold of breath sesh if it happened.

Christian - But that is exactly is what has happened in other religions and ideologies due to human enlightenment.

What makes Islam any different in that sense ? It's just a different set of much more violent religious fantasies and superstitions.

that there is a huge difference between:

1. Believing a cracker is the body of Christ, and taking it in Church as a religious homage. Or even NOT believing it, but doing it because the ideas of Christ and his teachings help make one feel and act as a more loving and tolerant human being. It's still a fantasy, but it doesn't harm anyone directly anymore.

AND

2. Believing that Mohammed's teachings and the word of God he was delivered through the angel Gabriel grant Muslims the right to vilify and murder non-Muslims. Kill people for homosexuality, drawing cartoons (blasphemy), stoning raped women for "adultery", etc, etc. ?

This is long past utility.

This is pathetic of you.

Not religious=agnostic in my previous post.

I've answered your question on Islamic theology. I'm sure not to your liking. You have not bothered to remotely address any of mine.

Understood I'm feeding the troll here guilty as charged.

In comment 13019846 muhajir said:

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Bluelou, ratio of deaths is exponentially higher then 10:1 and in addition to specific death totals, theres palestinians maimed and disfigured by Israeli bombings and raids. That and the overall squalor and humiliation of daily life in the occupied territories so its not just about the death totals.

With all due respect muhajir you are confusing the refugee camps perhaps with the occupied territory in general. Because I know what an awful lot of the villages and countryside in the occupied territory looks like and it's not the fetid squalor it's made out to be. You can't possibly know 1% of what I know about this because I lived there and still work there regularly. How many times do I need to repeat that?

Now I have never been to a refugee camp so can't comment, and I don't believe the right wing Jewish press sources I have that post photos of lavish homes with swimming pools in the camps.

But there are in fact plenty of lavsh homes in numerous normal Arab villages in the West Bank.

And whose fault is it that there is so much poverty there? You know how Fooking poor Israel was in 1950?

3 plus generations have passed since the initial war of independence for Israel (that BTW the Arab states started because they didn't accept a 2 state solution, for the damn 100th time.) Israel has built itself into an amazing little country, Palestine, the would be Palestine, is a Fooking disaster. It truly is not Israel's fault. There is a reason Palestine can't raise capital to invest like Israel can an does...

I mentioned I am friends with Christian Arabs who live.and work in the West Bank, right? The Khourys:

Quote:

Taybeh Brewing Company is a family owned business established in 1994 following the Oslo Peace Agreement (1993) when David Khoury and Nadim Khoury were inspired by their late father, Canaan David Khoury (1926-2002) to return to their home village of Taybeh after spending more than twenty years in the United States and establish the first micro brewery in the Middle East.

Well they invested and are probably only 10-20% of the size the COULD BE if Arafat had agreed to peace in 2000-2001, because without a country of their own to exist in, and with an obvious aversion to labeling their beer as "produced in Israel" they are fucked by TTB laws in the states that won't allow their beer to be imported.

That's losing their biggest single market, one they were counting on when they started after the signing of the Oslo accords.

As an aside they used to sell beer through their own small kiosk in Gaza. Yoi think Hamas asked them to shut it down or convert it into a fresh juice stand? Not exactly. Hamas burned it down to the ground.

So don't blame Israel for the Palestinian's poverty. That's on them and their leaders who steal like the 40 thieves.

In comment 13019979 Bill2 said:

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This is long past utility.

Bill - That is your opinion. Many people have expressed support.

In comment 13019980 hassan said:

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This is pathetic of you. Not religious=agnostic in my previous post. I've answered your question on Islamic theology. I'm sure not to your liking. You have not bothered to remotely address any of mine.

Hahhhh. Do you actually believe the words you type ? I really doubt it. You seem to be much too intelligent to swallow what you are shoveling.

In comment 13019948 christian said:

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You don't think if large swaths of the Judaeo/Christian world were under the same political and social conditions as much of the Muslim world, there wouldn't be active factions resorting to desperation, manipulation, violence and deprecated tenants of their religion? Explain central and South America to me? There's not a lot mystery in why Western Africa, Somalia, rural Philippines, Bangladesh, rural India, Syria, Iraq, disputed areas in rural Pakistan, rural Afghanistan etc. create and export terror. There's a reason America, Kuwait and the UAE don't with the same intensity.

Yes it is my opinion.

One of them

They are benefitting more directly with trade with US. They have met more Americans.

Many are second world countries as opposed to third or 4th world status.

There are also no madrassas with hate filled preachers either. And they don't have the restrictive cultures of Islam. It's a lie to pretend otherwise.

In comment 13019995 BlueLou said:

Quote:

In comment 13019948 christian said: Quote: You don't think if large swaths of the Judaeo/Christian world were under the same political and social conditions as much of the Muslim world, there wouldn't be active factions resorting to desperation, manipulation, violence and deprecated tenants of their religion? Explain central and South America to me? There's not a lot mystery in why Western Africa, Somalia, rural Philippines, Bangladesh, rural India, Syria, Iraq, disputed areas in rural Pakistan, rural Afghanistan etc. create and export terror. There's a reason America, Kuwait and the UAE don't with the same intensity.

You might want to read up on Latin American history over the 20th century and focus in on Mexico current-day if you don't think social and economic pressures don't lead to violence.

This is beyond idiotic and is further evidence you're a moron.


"Instead, we have people refusing to use the term "Islam" in the discussion of terrorism"

More concerning is that people on this thread cherry picked some of his points. Fairly sad indictment of them.

Fareed zakaria did a good piece on this topic and was very fair. Said Islamic world has a combination of political, ideological, economic and social factors contributing to their actions.

But not surprisingly, Latin America has become a growing recruitment ground for Isis. Because of the economic malaise.

OK...I'm deleting this in a few minutes everyone.

Again, the subject matter has made some uncomfortable.

Consider who went over the top with crass smears and trolling as opposed to respectful civil discourse as good candidates for a ban. Might be out of bounds to suggest but so be it.

In comment 13020021 christian said:

Quote:

In comment 13019995 BlueLou said: Quote: In comment 13019948 christian said: Quote: You don't think if large swaths of the Judaeo/Christian world were under the same political and social conditions as much of the Muslim world, there wouldn't be active factions resorting to desperation, manipulation, violence and deprecated tenants of their religion? Explain central and South America to me? There's not a lot mystery in why Western Africa, Somalia, rural Philippines, Bangladesh, rural India, Syria, Iraq, disputed areas in rural Pakistan, rural Afghanistan etc. create and export terror. There's a reason America, Kuwait and the UAE don't with the same intensity. You might want to read up on Latin American history over the 20th century and focus in on Mexico current-day if you don't think social and economic pressures don't lead to violence.

Is it me? Or do virtually all the links to real info come from one side, and not the pro Islam or namby pamby liberals with the socio-economic roots arguments.

Hey you got something show me because I googled Mexico Suicide Bomb and the first link that connected Mexico to suicide bombs was Islamist driven Nigerians blowing up 20+ people who were watching a football match involving Mexico. Apparently these Islamists thought Mexico was laying down so as not to cover the spread...



Maybe


South and Central America have plenty of economic crime, not hate crime and suicide bombers yo yo.

In comment 13020019 hassan said:

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They are benefitting more directly with trade with US. They have met more Americans. Many are second world countries as opposed to third or 4th world status. There are also no madrassas with hate filled preachers either. And they don't have the restrictive cultures of Islam. It's a lie to pretend otherwise.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't many gulf states endowed with the most precious resource of the last two centuries?

Did those nation states not benefit from trade to the tune of trillions of petrol dollars?

Haven't the Saudis walked lock step with every administration since Bush I? How has that benefitted the average Saudi?

South America is no less religious than countries where by Islam is the dominant belief system; and, Christianty is just as likely to be restrictive, exclusive, misogynistic and hated filled.

The fundamental difference is rooted how static Islam has remained. As loathe as I am to make this distinction, Christianity has grown up. Not much, but some. And while Christianity undoubtedly provides the foundation for how many lead their lives, is isn't the basis of law, government, economics, etc.

Apostate Christians aren't killed on the street of Rio. Argentianian women accused of adultery aren't beaten to death. Non Christians in Chile aren't blown up at the market.


The implication that Arabs/Muslims have somehow been dealt a bad hand due to inadequate trade opportunities or proximity to the US is intellectually dishonest.
And while, imho, both philosophies are a dead end of reason, to suggest they're moral equivalents is patently false. Lastly, the continued deflection and rationalizations of these acts of violence by people who are ostensibly moderates, strikes me as more dangerous than the acts themselves.

Yes the gulf states have benefitted enormously. And a few families to your point have become rich. The people likely to be radicalized from these nations to act out are likely the equivalent of slave labor there. There are still massive socioeconomic factors there...Yes, there are the engineers supportive of Isis that moved from London to Syria to fight but it's the rare case.

Hardly intellectually dishonest to suggest socioeconomic issue are part of the challenge.

Where is the deflection? There may be a portion that still blames all this action in a conspiracy but plenty have denounced terror.

You will notice I added the lack of a madrassas is a reason this is not happening In Central America. It's a contributing factor.