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An Israeli man has been killed and his wife and two children wounded after their car was fired on in the occupied West Bank, the military says. It happened near the Jewish settlement of Otniel. The man was killed when the car overturned after the attack. Israeli forces are searching for a Palestinian gunman. It is the second fatal attack on an Israeli in the West Bank in two days. On Thursday a 13-year-old girl was killed in her bedroom by a Palestinian. Thirty-five Israelis have now been killed in a wave of knife, gun and car-ramming attacks since October. More than 200 Palestinians - mostly attackers, Israel says - have also been killed in that period. The assailants who have been killed have been shot either by their victims or by security forces as they carried out attacks. Some attackers have been arrested. Palestinian shot dead The victims of Friday's attack were members of the same family. The driver was a father, said to be in his 40s; his wife and two children were taken to hospital for treatment. The shooting happened on Route 60, about nine miles (15km) south of the settlement of Kiryat Arba, where a day earlier teenager Hallel Yaffa Ariel was stabbed to death as she slept. |
Amazing how many people who comment so authoritatively on the middle east and the 'savages' probably endorsed the Iraq War .......
Do you want to go with a smaller figure? 50 million?
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In comment 13017863 BlueLou said: Quote: In comment 13017855 Patrick77 said: Quote:
Didn't own all the good vineyards in Israel...Gotta share the wealth.
Haha plenty of great vineyards around Hebron, what I consider some of the greatest vineyard land in the world for red grapes, are owned by Arab Muslims. I don't want to own their land, I just want them to replace their table grape vines with wine grapes.
Haha glad to hear it. I find the posts you make about your world and the interactions in it very interesting.
Not that it would ever be possible or even remotely acceptable but is there any push from a noticeable group of people within Israel to basically expel everyone and consolidate the territory completely into essentially a porcupine surrounded by enemies?
Not that it would help anything, I just always wondered why it would or even could be worse than the status quo.
Well yeah that's what the settlements are all about at one level, an ultimate desire to really "occupy" the West Bank by the far right religious parties. To a lesser extent just to preserve the Jewish heritage cites in the West Bank of which there are many. I mean, at some point that was Judea, and Jewish territory long before there even was the religion of Islam.
Those who take the "promised land by G-d literally" think of Israel as naturally extending to the Jordan River, the border of Jordan.
The problem is what do you do with the Palestinians? It's not as if any other Arab country wants them, just the opposite, they won't accept them in as refugees or as potential citizens.
The religious settlers you refer to get lots of publicity but they aren't even a majority of the settler population. Though they are doing G-d's work these days by quietly but with great strength reminding Israelis of why Israel is actually a Jewish state. Because without the claim to the land that Jews have, why not Uganda?
Elisha I was wondering who the first fool to write that was going to be. Congrats. Try and stay on topic.
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The tale is sordid indeed, but that number is way inflated.
Do you want to go with a smaller figure? 50 million?
Actually, that's the figure most commonly used for the indigenous population of North, Central and South America combined. Of course there are different estimates as were are talking about 400 years ago. I linked Wikipedia, which I don't think has an agenda.
Link - ( New Window )
Because I just googled it and didn't find one.
But there were promises made in the 1914-1920 period related what was EVENTUALLY named Palestine to every group, Jewish, Arab Christian and Arab Muslim who resided in the area at that time.
Response is Israel is currently occupying the West Bank and Gaza
...fact. I dont waste my breath on anyone that pretends Palestine and the Palestinians don't exist and that the land isnt internationally recognized as occupied. Thats just playing pretend.
And Using divine right to the land may jive in bible/torah studies class but isn't a real world justification so no need to share biblical verses (and certainly not Quranic ones that you interpreted completely wrong). Thats my response.
Because I just googled it and didn't find one.
Lou - There was an Imam from a moderate mosque in San Francisco who did so on CNN some night this week. Forget whether it was Anderson Cooper of Don Lemon. Of course it was stated during the interview he's on an ISIS death list.
Anyone who cannot accept a critique of their country and insists on being a jingoist is a fairly low form of scum.
And your posts certainly fits the bill.
Well yeah that's what the settlements are all about at one level, an ultimate desire to really "occupy" the West Bank by the far right religious parties.
Of course lots of settlements are for security reasons, others are reestablishing Jewish communities that were exterminated in the initial war in '48. Plus I was talking of the settlements I know intimately and have either lived or worked in them.
And the world should know that Arab culture is tribal. The state system and borders and all of that troublesome stuff doesn't work in Arab culture. That is why the whole Middle East is falling apart. Were there no Israel, it would still be falling apart.
Have at it. I am out for the weekend.
BTW, just so you are aware........Im fairly pro-Israel. Have done business there. Would do so again. No boycotter here. Israel should defend itself vigorously. Its a great state. But to cast aside any legitimate critique of their policy and their government and then to lambaste and slur Muslims as a whole in the process is my big objection.
And you both minimized three pretty thoughtful and fact based posts down to two-bit one liners that are too facile to respect even a little bit.
You both just failed miserably.
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In comment 13017875 phillygiant said: Quote: You are nothing more than an anti Semitic scum bag who I guarantee wouldn't have the balls to spew that crap to anybody's face Actually he's a troll who should be ignored until the mods suspend his account for the 505h time.
interesting that my gf is Jewish and half my friends. Sad that morons can't distinguish between criticizing a government with criticizing a group of people. Interestingly you agree with Hitler on this issue who defended himself of criticism by claiming his dissidents were anti german.
What about your wife?
After World War I, the Sharif of Mecca, Hussein bin Ali and his son, the King Feisal of Hijaz and then of Iraq, proclaimed pro-Zionist views.[13] According to Sheikh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi, the Wahhabi position, in contrast, was extremely anti-Zionist.[14
On March 23, 1918, Al Qibla, the daily newspaper of Mecca, printed the following words in support of the Balfour Declaration of 1917:
The resources of the country [Palestine] are still virgin soil and will be developed by the Jewish immigrants (...) we have seen the Jews from foreign countries streaming to Palestine from Russia, Germany, Austria, Spain, and America. The cause of causes could not escape those who had a gift of deeper insight. They knew that the country was for its original sons [abna'ihi-l-asliyin], for all their differences, a sacred and beloved homeland. The return of these exiles [jaliya] to their homeland will prove materially and spiritually an experimental school for their brethren who are with them in the fields, factories, trades and all things connected to the land.[15]
On 3 January 1919, Hussein's son, king Faisal I of Iraq and Dr. Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Zionist Organization signed the Faisal–Weizmann Agreement for Arab-Jewish cooperation, in which Faisal conditionally accepted the Balfour Declaration based on the fulfilment of British wartime promises of development of a Jewish homeland in Palestine and on which subject he stated:
We Arabs... look with the deepest sympathy on the Zionist movement. Our deputation here in Paris is fully acquainted with the proposals submitted yesterday by the Zionist Organisation to the Peace Conference, and we regard them as moderate and proper. We will do our best, in so far as we are concerned, to help them through; we will wish the Jews a most hearty welcome home... I look forward, and my people with me look forward, to a future in which we will help you and you will help us, so that the countries in which we are mutually interested may once again take their places in the community of the civilised peoples of the world.[16][17][18]
Muslim Supporters of Israel - ( New Window )
Never labeled you that way. Your post to Mujahir was quite ridiculous.
There are animals everywhere. Like our presidents their are animals who use religion to justify their wars. You sir are a joke.
My much bigger objection to Elisha was his call out of Mujahir who god forbid, defended his heritage from selective morality and logic, which of course got him labeled someone who should 'leave'....if that is well thought out reason, by all means consider it such but it says plenty about the reader.
My objection to the thread contents were around the bigot language used by BlueLou to kick things of (in his defense, he apologized, and in fact is fair and thoughtful-even praised Mujahir). I then objected to standard issue characterizations/strawmen arguments constantly used against Muslims. This really was not an Israel/Palestine debate forum in my threads.
A series of quotable is just that. I can go find plenty of quotables of arab leaders who claimed palestine was legitimate as well. Im sure I can find plenty of quotes of even Jewish leadership over the years questioning the legitimacy of Israel. Such quotes are rubbish waste of time on an internet board, and detracts from the situation as it is today.
I would even go so far as agree that the arab leadership and world has failed the palestinians very much.
With that said, your tact of using quotables was plenty silly. In 2015, the UN has (wrongly or rightly) recognized the statehood of palestine, a resolution is required and legitimate critiques of Israeli governmental policy <> Anti Israeli sentiment. Nor is it justification to equate Muslims with 'animals', 'they don't come out against terrorism', etc.
Zahir Muhsein- executive committee member of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO, now Palestinian Authority)
March 31, 1977 interview in the Dutch newspaper Trouw:
“The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.”
And you both minimized three pretty thoughtful and fact based posts down to two-bit one liners that are too facile to respect even a little bit.
You both just failed miserably.
Too funny. Why is the burden on them? Do you really believe the other side succeeded where they failed?
I don't care about your quote.......read my position and how irrelevant quotables are.
People should read posts more carefully and understand them before commenting.
There are many good people here and in the Middle East engaged in small but constructive efforts to see that the children of Israel and the Arab world can come to know death as a medical event and not the result of violence. These people are still seldom heard in the aftermath of atrocities and their efforts unnoticed. However, they seek to bring the children to an understanding of each other that has escaped many of their parents. I came across this group a couple of years: http://creativityforpeace.com/
It's surprising because he's not a moron but it's obvious he has some bias.
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I thought GMenLTS comment was quite hysterical yes....
It's surprising because he's not a moron but it's obvious he has some bias.
The Palestinians are occupied, Gaza besieged, and 'settlements' (such a peaceful name) are actually heavily fortified huge areas illegally (by international standards) built right in the middle of Palestinian land. Inhabited by 'settlers' (another very peaceful name for heavily armed and militant Israelis that are willing to move into Palestinian areas and just simply make it theres.)
And blue thank you for the Ramadan well wishes. Israel wished huge areas of the West Bank a happy Ramadan by cutting off water supplies to thousands of fasting people this month (like when they cut off electricity as collective punishment every so often) and blamed it on faulty pipes after.
The list of Israeli human rights violations is a very very long one so dont feel surprised when the Palestinians hate Israel. Read up and educate yourself fatman so you dont keep spreading that bias nonesense garbage that was explained to you. Happy Ramadan
(80 post thread in 3....2...1...)
I generally stay off these threads, but muhajir, you're generally very level headed so I think I can actually have a conversation with you, even if we don't change each other's views.
First, the point about human rights violations is a joke. Just looking at who heads up the council is enough to make one laugh. In March, when they convened, they only condemned Israel out of every country in the world for violating woman's rights. You're going to take what they say seriously?
In regards to the water supply - we're going to disagree with if it was done intentionally or not but I've read (can try to find links if you want) the system IS really old and they're having legit issues. The fact that the PA hasn't paid for the supply is a whole different story (I don't agree with cutting it off at all).
I think the only real question I have for you is, do you honestly believe if a two state solution was agreed upon, there would actually be peace and would Jews be allowed to live in the Palestinian state like Arabs live in Israel?
Someone other than you is allowed to win?
I frankly don't think any religion followed fervently does anything of good. But if you want to draw a parallel to Christian things that have happen, at least understand that many leaders, whether they be Presidents or other Heads of state condemned actions. Slavery was abolished. Attempts to give restitution to American Indians has happened. The actions of Hitler were universally abhorred.
But when we talk about the issue of Islamic rule, you don't see heads of state condemning actions or changing things. You don't see suicide bombings stop while finding lynchings or killings of Native American's has ended long ago.
When the topic of people not condemning actions gets brought up, people jump to say, "Sure it does", but the list seems to bed of people the Western world has never heard of. An imam or cleric. Not a head of state. Not one of the leaders who has sworn to be an enemy of Israel, an enemy who they have simply because Israel exists.
You won't find me expousing the greatness of Christians, and you also surely won't see me making parallels to long ago that have been condemned and have been eradicated.
Eradicated while the hatred of Israel still exists.