NFT: Attempted coup in Turkey?

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but no one knows for sure

.

Quote:

lhan tanir ‏@WashingtonPoint � 4m4 minutes ago  Washington, DC Turkish PM Yildirim talked to #NTV: This is a mutiny attempt, we will not let this attempt win. PM confirms military coup attempt in Turkey

Quote:

ilhan tanir ‏@WashingtonPoint � 2m2 minutes ago ilhan tanir Retweeted 140journos Turkish Military officer: Everybody must go home. This is not an exercise. video.

Quote:

ilhan tanir ‏@WashingtonPoint � 29s30 seconds ago ilhan tanir Retweeted 140journos Opposition MP @erenerdemnet: It's certain that there is a military coup attempt happening as of now. #Turkey

Link - ( New Window )

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and appreciate the stability and peace we generally find here in the U.S.

Here's hoping whoever staged it has good intentions.

Was a problem anyway, right?

In comment 13034233 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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Was a problem anyway, right?

Yeah. But not necessarily a bigger problem than chaos.

I mean...wow.

This is about 10 years too late. The question is if the military is looking to rule or restore the secular Turkey that was always the Ataturk model.

Hard to give up power once you've taken it. But hard to argue that (thus far) Egypt isn't better off for Sisi having done the same in Egypt.

for a coup/civil war in a member state?

But that's no guarantee that whoever succeeds him will be better and, in any case, despite whatever improvement someone else might be over Erdogan things have the potential to get very bloody.

The Associated Press 54 seconds ago
Report: Turkish military releases statement, saying armed forces have 'fully seized control' of the country.

In comment 13034237 Deej said:

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for a coup/civil war in a member state?

I was wondering that myself. I think Article 5 does not apply to a coup - Turkey has been a NATO member state since the '50s and there have been several coups in Turkey since then.

In comment 13034236 mort christenson said:

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I mean...wow. This is about 10 years too late. The question is if the military is looking to rule or restore the secular Turkey that was always the Ataturk model. Hard to give up power once you've taken it. But hard to argue that (thus far) Egypt isn't better off for Sisi having done the same in Egypt.

I think they're fed up with Erdogan and his cronies and want to go back secular. I also expect a good house cleaning in the military to get rid of the plants Erdogan installed there.

is that it sets a precedent to grab institutional control when things don't go your way.

All too often, these "situations" are when you are no longer earning rents or profits from the current set of leaders.

It may ease some short-term issues, but it gives rise to a lot of long-term concerns, including who will be enticed to take power knowing that the military is watching...

He sacked a bunch of the top level brass in the military to prevent a coup. Military is much more secular then the current President (or ex) and staff were

In comment 13034238 Greg from LI said:

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But that's no guarantee that whoever succeeds him will be better and, in any case, despite whatever improvement someone else might be over Erdogan things have the potential to get very bloody.

Also, we know he wont just disappear, but rather will hunt down whomever holds the ring of power even if his quest to recover it kills him.

In comment 13034244 MOOPS said:

Quote:

In comment 13034236 mort christenson said: Quote: I mean...wow. This is about 10 years too late. The question is if the military is looking to rule or restore the secular Turkey that was always the Ataturk model. Hard to give up power once you've taken it. But hard to argue that (thus far) Egypt isn't better off for Sisi having done the same in Egypt. I think they're fed up with Erdogan and his cronies and want to go back secular. I also expect a good house cleaning in the military to get rid of the plants Erdogan installed there.

Or they dont like what is going on with the Kurds, or ISIS, or the Syrian border, or the recent change in relations with Israel. Who knows.

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bedfellows.

There could be some quite nasty political combinations of convenience being made from this.

But I believe at least one factor in past coups has been to reassert Ataturk-style secularism, which dominates the military, over religiously-motivated elected officials....that would certainly appear to apply here.

In comment 13034252 kicker said:

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bedfellows. There could be some quite nasty political combinations of convenience being made from this.

And if the PKK decides to try to take advantage of this opening, "nasty" probably doesn't even begin too describe what might follow.

In comment 13034250 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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Source?

Yeah. The probability of some sizable domestic instability issues arising out of this, even if Erdogan is dead, is very high.

In comment 13034256 chris r said:

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In comment 13034250 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: . Source?

Nothing very reliable. Seems like opening fire where they did might suggest they knew where he would be,

A Turkish news agency has published a statement from the military saying the armed forces have "fully seized control" of the country.

The Dogan agency reported that the statement said that the military did this "to reinstall the constitutional order, democracy, human rights and freedoms, to ensure that the rule of law once again reigns in the country, for the law and order to be reinstated."

The military statement went on to say that "all international agreements and commitments will remain. We pledge that good relations with all world countries will continue."

Dude went nuts with power. That being said, military coups usually don't end well. We'll see what happens.

Now the leader of the military can go live in the hundred million dollar palace Gollum had built for himself. It's wishful thinking on anyone's part to think a military taking over is good for the populace or anyone really.

Gollum is terrible no doubt, but why exactly would the military ever relinquish control and why would it not become wholly corrupted by absolute power?

or coop?

In comment 13034264 NYerInMA said:

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Dude went nuts with power. That being said, military coups usually don't end well. We'll see what happens.

It's only a plus if it doesn't come along with a civil war, the corresponding deluge of refugees from said war, the bloodshed incurred, and the introduction of more instability and chaos into an already unstable, chaotic region.

I dislike Erdogan as much as anyone, but the potential for this to be a disaster greatly outweighs any possible benefits of removing Erdogan from power.

Was a nut, but sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

that violence is an acceptable avenue to address domestic concerns. What do you think the large amounts of disenfranchised people in Turkey are taking away from this?

DOD sent all dependents home earlier in the year due to the deteriorating situation, at least, but that's still something to keep in mind.

Or not, he was democratically elected. Once a coup occurs, more often then not a dictatorship follows. The turkish people need to rise up against this asap.

Quote:

AIRLIVE ‏@airlivenet 4m4 minutes ago BREAKING According to our source, Turkish president Ardogan left the country in his private presidential jet http://ift.tt/29V4vsA

Also says planes are now diverting award from the Turkish int'l airport.

reddit
Link - ( New Window )

is laughing his ass off right now. One of his biggest detractors who insisted on regime change in Syria is now getting ready to file for unemployment

[img]AFP news agency �@AFP � 3m3 minutes ago

#BREAKING Turkish military declares martial law and curfew: TRT state TV[/quote]

In comment 13034255 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

In comment 13034252 kicker said: Quote: bedfellows. There could be some quite nasty political combinations of convenience being made from this. And if the PKK decides to try to take advantage of this opening, "nasty" probably doesn't even begin too describe what might follow.

Not to say they won't do it, but PKK would be nuts to get involved in this.

and I feel fine....

The ripple effects of this are gong to be tremendous.

-- Syria
-- Migration crisis in the EU
-- ISIS

just to start

Joyce Karam ✔ @Joyce_Karam
Coup timing: Erdogan is on Holiday in Bodrum #Turkey .
4:54 PM - 15 Jul 2016

Ragıp Soylu @ragipsoylu
#BREAKING TURKISH JUSTICE MINISTER SAYS US-BASED IMAM FETHULLAH GULEN'S FOLLOWERS IN MILITARY ATTEMPTING TO SEIZE POWER
4:34 PM - 15 Jul 2016

Trying to follow #Turkey on Twitter, and they keep posting dumbass pictures of Boris Johnson. Give it a fucking rest already.

The Associated Press 43 seconds ago
BREAKING: Military statement read on state TV: Armed forces have seized power, citing rising autocratic rule, increased terrorism.

wiki for Fethullah G�len
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fethullah_G�len - ( New Window )

Turkey going into civil war would be a disaster that would make Syria look like childs play. And who knows what Putin will do. Start complaining that he's entitled to access to the sea and do something about it.

Derek Gatopoulos ✔ @dgatopoulos
Ankara Mayor urges residents to take to the streets

In comment 13034290 Greg from LI said:

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Trying to follow #Turkey on Twitter, and they keep posting dumbass pictures of Boris Johnson. Give it a fucking rest already.

Maybe there are just too many dumbass pictures of Boris Johnson. Whose fault is that?

Malek Blacktoviche @SyrianDeveloper
Heavy shooting by #Assad forces in #Aleppo they are celebrating for what's going on in #Turkey
5:22 PM - 15 Jul 2016

These coups happen from time to time in contemporary Turkish history.
coups - ( New Window )

Turkey ran TV spots promoting the business friendly environment, infrastructure, etc. What a disaster

Jenan Moussa ✔ @jenanmoussa
Unbelievable. No Erdogan on tv. The military overtook TRT station. Anchor says the secular system needs to be restored. #Turkey. @akhbar
5:20 PM - 15 Jul 2016

Ceylan Yeginsu ✔ @CeylanWrites
Presidential sources say that the President is in a secure location and will make a statement shortly.
5:23 PM - 15 Jul 2016

Ceylan Yeginsu ✔ @CeylanWrites
Erdogan making a statement on facetime right now.
5:28 PM - 15 Jul 2016

Sky News Newsdesk ✔ @SkyNewsBreak
Update - #Turkey's PM says security forces will "retaliate in kind" and "everything necessary will be done even if that means fatalities"

A Coup....modern world.

Ezgi Basaran @ezgibasaran
President Erdogan: "This coup is not in chain of command. I also heard that the Chief of Armed Forces to be taken hostage. Nothing clear"
5:31 PM - 15 Jul 2016

In comment 13034308 sphinx said:

Quote:

Ceylan Yeginsu ✔ @CeylanWrites Erdogan making a statement on facetime right now. 5:28 PM - 15 Jul 2016

This is Turkish TV

i dont disagree with many of the reasons to be concerned posted on the thread but honestly, just imho, this has a better than 50% chance of being good for the US, for NATO, for Israel.

Here who it is not good for:

ISIS
Syria
Russia
Iran

See any nation on that list that you like ?


Lastly, when I served ( actually also was a kid brat at Incirlik) and thereafter what I knew about it the Turkish military and the US Military had close and high regard fr each other. So many jointly went through War College ans the other ways we interact that for many years the military was far more effective with Turkey than the State Department. Now that was all pre Edrogan so who knows who these guys are? they could be pro muslim armed to the hilt military and bent on the Caliphate for all I know. But not much goes on in Turkey we dont know a lot about and no one with half a brain would proceed without knowing that no matter what we said externally....we were going to support the new crew. And there is a lot we can help them with.

the view always was that the Turkish Military were patriots and progressive given the alternatives and aimed to be members of Europe, the Attaturk tradition and the West not the ME


Kicker, imho, very true and very well articulated as usual. But, countries like this are knife edge stages of evolution two steps back and three steps forward. As long as the people are given stability I feel its at least humanitarian enough in Turkeys case. I remind us that Attaturkism lasted a very long time so its not like this is a banana republic. In sum, moderation even if not through democratically elected government is best we can do sometimes

Lets wait and see. There are lots of reasons to think it helps us a lot.

relevant. Facetime? He might as well be updating his myspace page.

If the guy can't land in his own country and can only call for violence through facetime to overthrow the military it's pretty clear who is actually in charge right now.

"In sum, moderation even if not through democratically elected government is best we can do sometimes."

Amen to that Bill

In comment 13034316 Bill2 said:

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i dont disagree with many of the reasons to be concerned posted on the thread but honestly, just imho, this has a better than 50% chance of being good for the US, for NATO, for Israel. Here who it is not good for: ISIS Syria Russia Iran See any nation on that list that you like ?

Not an expert on Turkey, but my guess is that the airport bombing was the last straw. Erdogan has essentially allowed a porous border in exchange for IS taking it easy on Turkey. With that implied deal violated, maybe the military want to try to re-establish the border.

I would have thought that Russia would be relatively pleased given the animosity between Put in and Erdogan.

for all I know the military under Erdogan was turned into IISS ( the Paki rotten to the core Interior Security Department)

In comment 13034317 Patrick77 said:

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relevant. Facetime? He might as well be updating his myspace page. If the guy can't land in his own country and can only call for violence through facetime to overthrow the military it's pretty clear who is actually in charge right now.

Also the part where he asked his people to take to the streets against a modern military. #Leadership

Isn't it just as likely that the military is dissatisfied with the level of response to KPP (Kurdish Workers Party). The centuries old enmity, the rise in esteem that Kurds have realized in NATO and the West generally for their successes on the battlefield against ISIS, and a diffuse Turkish response in Anatolia, Syria, and western Iraq: I'm thinking the trigger is shorter with respect to KPP.

Are they a modern force?

You would certainly know much better than I.

And you are very correct that internal deposal is much better than an internationally-imposed one.

I would have thought that the Turkish military, given their tradition and views, would have been better at blocking the intrigues and advances of someone like Erdogan (in response to them being IISS), which would change the calculus of my beliefs.

Deej...yep...us as well given how important the airspace is to us as well

Greg

Turkey can shut a lot of Russia down by blocking the Bosphorus. If armed by the US by certain weapons then within a week its a dagger pointed at Russia. Russia is always going to be suspicious of Turkey unless every last citizen was KGB.

They are so historically sensitive to Turkey and US weapons that hey risked WWIII with a weak hand to get our "defensive" weapons out of there. We call that the Cuban Missile Crisis.

In comment 13034331 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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Are they a modern force?

Very much so, professional and we'll regarded

Erdogan's "expression of regret" a couple of weeks ago seemed to have taken some of the tension arising from the downing of the Russian aircraft. That and his approach to re-open ties to Israel seemed to indicate Erdogan was reducing the number of "fronts" Turkey was facing, maybe too little too late.

the ascension of Erdogan and his colleagues was considered to be a real surprise and a loss by a weak looking elsewhere Bush Adminsitration. Both their military and ours and our State were blindsided and over confident in 2002-2003

In comment 13034328 Deej said:

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Also the part where he asked his people to take to the streets against a modern military. #Leadership

Yup. He doesn't give two shits about anyone but himself and his own power. A battle hardened, professional, military force vs civilians... No real leader would ever call for that. It would be a massacre.

In comment 13034322 Deej said:

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In comment 13034316 Bill2 said: Quote: i dont disagree with many of the reasons to be concerned posted on the thread but honestly, just imho, this has a better than 50% chance of being good for the US, for NATO, for Israel. Here who it is not good for: ISIS Syria Russia Iran See any nation on that list that you like ? Not an expert on Turkey, but my guess is that the airport bombing was the last straw. Erdogan has essentially allowed a porous border in exchange for IS taking it easy on Turkey. With that implied deal violated, maybe the military want to try to re-establish the border.

I won't rule that out, but the military iirc has been more secular than the direction Erdogan was taking the country, going all the way back to Ataturk.

Bill - Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there less corruption with Ataturk than the Young Turks who preceded him?

but wasnt Erdogan's son buying up oil from ISIS?

the best military in the area

well trained mid ranks. proud traditions. a meritocracy. very little corruption.

if we took the gloves we put on when erdogan came on the scene and armed them as we had prior to 15 years ago...they are the best in the area by a wide margin

In comment 13034343 732NYG said:

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but wasnt Erdogan's son buying up oil from ISIS?

Rumor. I never saw much back up.

in Turkey. The article below explains who they are.
Link - ( New Window )

was as low corruption as that world ever sees.

thats one thing our military always said about theirs...tough, western, well educated, not corrupt and merit based

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the major cities but that's a lot of americans out there.

In comment 13034277 Reb8thVA said:

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is laughing his ass off right now. One of his biggest detractors who insisted on regime change in Syria is now getting ready to file for unemployment

Agreed.

In comment 13034331 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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Are they a modern force?

Yes, one of the most modern in NATO from what I've heard. The military people on BBI know more but from what I've read Turkey has one of the five largest militaries in NATO

but you get the sense that if the military desires a secular state, this is the first of many of these scenes.

i rarely see things much differently than you do in this part of the world, but if successful and depending on who it is; i am not sure id be very happy if the military succeeds

who is very anti-Israel as well as trying to move Turkey toward being a more Muslim country, every intelligent person on earth knows both of those things mean he is vermin. Hopefully, non-religious military leaders can take over and restore Turkey to the way it was before Erdogan came in. That is, an ally to us and Israel.

If we have a significant pro-Erdogan faction fighting a significant anti-Erdogan fashion there will be rivers of blood on the streets of Istanbul and Ankara

A significant pro-Erdogan faction vs. anti-Erdogan faction would create complete chaos

Quote:

i dont disagree with many of the reasons to be concerned posted on the thread but honestly, just imho, this has a better than 50% chance of being good for the US, for NATO, for Israel.

Maybe short term but long term? A military coup doesn't reflect the will of the people and down the road there could be huge blow back especially if people get the idea that the US or Israel played a role in the coup (true or not doesn't matter).

Mo�z BHAR @moezbhar
#BREAKING: Video seems to show gunfire towards protesters in #Istanbul amid military coup

Cops and military fighting? Distinctly hear lots of gunfire

https://twitter.com/RobPulseNews/status/754081134321860608

Mo�z BHAR @moezbhar
UNBELIEVABLE CRAZY FOOTAGE #Video #Turkey army tanks run over cars in middle of the roads in #Istanbul..!!!!

Turkey: First Army Commander Does Not Support Coup
Situation Reports JULY 15, 2016 | 22:21 GMT
The commander of Turkey's First Army, Gen. Umit Dundar, said on live television that the Turkish army does not support the coup launched against the government of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, multiple journalists reported via Twitter on July 15. Dundar's comments indicate that not all elements of the Turkish military support the coup, which opens the possibility for a counter-coup.

Danny Gold ✔ @DGisSERIOUS
WOW. Main Kurdish party, many of whom Erdogan has sought to imprison, comes out AGAINST coup

Ceylan Yeginsu ✔ @CeylanWrites
It's almost 2 a.m. and mosques across Istanbul are relentlessly calling people to the streets to resist and protest the military coup.
6:43 PM - 15 Jul 2016

Sky News Newsdesk ✔ @SkyNewsBreak
Update - Reuters: Army commander in #Turkey says soldiers in attempted coup "represent a small group" and "there is no cause for concern"
6:42 PM - 15 Jul 2016

Military Special Forces commander is live on the phone at CNNTurk right now. Claiming those who attempt this coup have failed/will fail. Calls them traitors. /u/narwhalsare_unicorns

Downtown Josh Brown ✔ @ReformedBroker
True Story:

Reports Erdogan is seeking British Asylum. Britain�s new Foreign Sec called him a goatf***er in May. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/14/boris-johnson-life-xenophobic-gaffes �
6:30 PM - 15 Jul 2016

I usually try to follow the money.

A Turkey who gets the pipeline from Iraq or iran to Europe definitely is a different Turkey

Who funds fifty year gambles like that?

Russia and the USA

It is true that Russia breaks out of their desperate position with low oil prices and being bottled up on their gamble with the Basra Fields via Lukoil. A lot of the Syrian and ISIS stuff is genuine and a lot just happens to get in the way of Iraq and Saudi and Russia. Hard for me to figure out who is zoomin who

But I dont see Turkey being sustainably pro Russian and I dont see Putin as formidable as you guys seem to crown him. And IRan and Turkey are not allies or co religionist. Neither has money or room to gamble.

but while I dont see Obama as a proactive gambler when it comes to intervention; I dont see anyone in Turkey who was a serious analyst of the cards trying to do it without us

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with helo machine guns.

https://twitter.com/moezbhar/status/754086806967164928

A lot of these military heads throwing out tidbits to news agencies and media are installed by Erdogan. I'm not sure I trust them.

Erdogan has tried in the past to clear out as much of the secular military leadership as he could and advance those who appeared more loyal to his interests.

There's a comment in the NY Times article on the coup from a guy who claims to be an air traffic controller in Athens who claims Erdogan has just landed there. I have no idea if it's true but it's certainly an ironic place for an Islamist Turkish PM to flee to.

Rami Jarrah @RamiJarrah
BREAKING: Armed forces have entered Taksim sq. of Istanbul to disperse crowds resisting military coup #Turkey
6:54 PM - 15 Jul 2016

Literally half the top tweets for turkey coup, coup, turkey, or whatever other trending hashtag is just straight up propaganda from one side of the story. At this point I'd be more apt to believe that Russia invaded Iran today than half the crap I am reading on Twitter.

We'll probably never know for sure.
Regardless of what we knew I doubt we would have taken any action. This could be a quagmire

Although I don't think you will prevail.

Vocal Europe @thevocaleurope
LATEST: People are attacking soldiers who attempted coup in #Istanbul, Turkey.
7:10 PM - 15 Jul 2016

DAILY SABAH ✔ @DailySabah
BREAKING � Commander of Istanbul's 3rd Corps issues immediate televized order to return to barracks, emphasizes chain of command
7:09 PM - 15 Jul 2016

Coming sphinx. Much appreciated

Sometimes the alternative is much, much worse.

National Intelligence Agency press officer says "Coup attempt is crushed. Govt structure is up and running. Junta will be tried for treason

RT ✔ @RT_com
URGENT: #Ankara parliament building 'bombed from air' - state news agency http://on.rt.com/7j5t
7:48 PM - 15 Jul 2016

The Associated Press ✔ @AP
BREAKING: Turkish national intelligence spokesman says coup attempt has been "repelled."
7:36 PM - 15 Jul 2016

FOX Turkey reports that members of the parliament have descended down to the bunker in the TGNA, and that there are people injured.

that there's an info war going on now. Hence each side saying things like it's over in their favor. Its hard to say how it actually is progressing.

Apparently Erdogans airplane is circulating over Turkey right now. https://www.flightradar24.com/THY8456/a5a3952 /u/Slejb

wonder if they make a play on that plane.

Erdogans airplane currently descending. https://www.flightradar24.com/THY8456/a5a3952 /u/Slejb

Is the press officer

.

Erdogans is going to land at Ataturk airport. https://www.flightradar24.com/THY8456/a5a3952 /u/Slejb

Sky News ✔ @SkyNews
Turkish state broadcaster TRT resumes broadcasting; staff describe being taken hostage http://trib.al/mwFnseT
8:05 PM - 15 Jul 2016

Correction Erdogans airplane is landing at SAW not at IST as previously reported. https://www.flightradar24.com/THY8456/a5a3952 /u/Slejb

Ceylan Yeginsu ✔ @CeylanWrites
Erdogan is about to land in Istanbul Ataturk Airport, according to CNN Turk.
8:10 PM - 15 Jul 2016

Erdogan has landed on Istanbul Ataturk Airport. /u/Slejb
just now The plane took a detour towards IST. /u/trumpete

Tanks are still on the way to Ataturk Airport. /u/6559

The Associated Press ‏@AP 3m3 minutes ago
BREAKING: Top Turkish official says coup attempt appears to have been unsuccessful, all government officials in charge of their offices.

ekrispin
‏@ekrispin
The photo of the crowds in #Turkey in protest AGAINST the coup is FAKE, already appeared in news posts in 2015

FOX Turkey reports that the TGNA was bombed again. Contrary to past reports, it is reported that there are no injured people. The most recent explosion seems to have damaged a significant portion of the TGNA. /u/trumpete

Grand National Assembly of Turkey just got bombed during live broadcast.
Live feed: http://www.fox.com.tr/canli-yayin /u/sabac

Sebastian Castelier @SCastelier
.#Turkey - State broadcaster TRT is back in government control ollowing a #TurkeyCoupAttempt - source : CNN
8:23 PM - 15 Jul 2016

The CNN Turk studio is being taken over by soldiers This has just been confirmed on CNN Turk by the current anchorwoman. /u/HydraVea

Soldiers are inside Kanal D building, they want to empty the building and ordered to shut down the broadcast, on live tv. /u/armpitsfromhell

Turkish Armed Forces website reports that they have complete control over the country. /u/trumpete

AP Top News at 8:24 p.m. EDT
TURKISH MILITARY APPEARS DIVIDED OVER COUP ATTEMPT

ANKARA, Turkey (AP) - Members of Turkey's armed forces said they had taken control of the country, but Turkish officials said the coup attempt had been repelled early Saturday morning in a night of violence that left at least 17 dead, according to state-run media. Explosions, gunfire and a reported air battle between loyalist forces and coup supporters erupted in the capital throughout the night and Turks heeded the president's call to take to the streets to show support for his embattled government. The state-run Anadolu Agency reported a bomb hit the Turkish parliament in Ankara. CNN-Turk television reported some police officers and parliament workers were hurt in the bomb attack.

dwnews ✔ @dwnews
#Turkey: Pro-Kurdish party HDP uncondtionally rejects attempted coup

Both sides firing salvo after salvo in the Twitter War. Impossible to have any idea which side is lying their ass off in an attempt to appear in control.

I mean, three hours after Erdogan is trying to get asylum in Germany, he's flying back to Istanbul? Does that seem likely?

Sadly I see this failing.

In comment 13034491 Ira said:

Quote:

ekrispin ‏@ekrispin The photo of the crowds in #Turkey in protest AGAINST the coup is FAKE, already appeared in news posts in 2015

Ira, you are not supposed to. There is a lot of competing messaging out there. The anti-coup forces need to push a narrative that the coup is failing and that they are reestablishing control. Their main tool for defeating the coup attempt is to get people out on the street to protest and resist. The coup plotters need to control the broadcast media to show they are in charge and resistance is futile. It's hard to know what is real and what isn't.

Are getting reports about Erdogan landing in Istanbul. The anti coup forces need to inspire their supporters to carry on.

The reality is that both sides may control different parts of the countr. It's not inconceivable that the military controls Ankara while the anti-coup forces are prevailing in Istanbul

Was mayor in Istanbul. It's his house or seat of power. Rumors of pro Erdogan police attacking the military and being crushed there.

Erdogan is also under pressure if he can't regain control quickly. It means even if coup ultimately fails he's done as an effective leader. If he further grips power he will legitimize the coup plotters. If he comes back and tries to play peacemaker his hardline supporters will unseat him.

No news about Erdogan or a pressconference. /u/Slejb

There is a pressconference with Erdogan right now. /u/Slejb

.

Twitter coup

What is currently on TV is a past recording of Erdoğan, it is not a live feed. Whereabouts of Erdoğan is currently unknown. /u/trumpete

No one knows shit.

Breaking911 @Breaking911
URGENT: Turkey's President Has Emerged At Istanbul's Airport.

WATCH LIVE: http://breaking911.com/gunfire-heard-in-turkish-capital-helicopters-military-jets-overhead/ �
9:05 PM - 15 Jul 2016

BNO News ✔ @BNONews
BREAKING: President Erdogan emerges from vehicle at Istanbul's airport, welcomed by large crowd of civilians
9:06 PM - 15 Jul 2016

Washington Post ✔ @washingtonpost
Turkey�s Erdogan always feared a coup. He was proved right. http://wapo.st/29JzqKA
9:09 PM - 15 Jul 2016

CNN T�rk's live feed has chants of "Allahu Akbar" coming from the background. /u/trumpete

Might have Istanbul but if the army has Ankara and the other cities it's a moot point.

In comment 13034533 figgy2989 said:

Quote:

No one knows shit.

Before the Internet we wouldn't know about this until the following day

In comment 13034544 AP in Halfmoon said:

Quote:

In comment 13034533 figgy2989 said: Quote: No one knows shit. Before the Internet we wouldn't know about this until the following day

Right, but at least there would be a viable story.

Erdoğan currently live on many TV channels. Preparing for a press announcement. /u/trumpete

Brian Stelter ✔ @brianstelter
For those of you wondering about @CNNTurk, it launched in 1999 � it's operated by local journalists in Turkey � they license the CNN name.
9:18 PM - 15 Jul 2016

Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters 1m1 minute ago
BREAKING: President Erdogan says those responsible for coup will pay; says it is a reason to clean up army.

DavidKenner ✔ @DavidKenner
So what does Obama do when Erdogan demands that he kick Gulen out of the US?
9:20 PM - 15 Jul 2016

The Int'l Spectator @intlspectator
BREAKING: Erdogan says traitors in military are taking orders from Pennsylvania, where opposition leader Gulen is based
9:24 PM - 15 Jul 2016

In comment 13034443 SanFranNowNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

Sometimes the alternative is much, much worse.

And sometimes it's much better. Like with Egypt, you have a military coup against a democratically elected Islamist who has been slowly stripping away democracy since he got into office. You can't have a democracy without freedom of the press.

Has Avrat @hasavrat
Erdoğan: "This event (coup) is the grace of God. We will cleanse traitors from within TSK." https://twitter.com/sahmetsahmet/status/754123510944071681 �
9:26 PM - 15 Jul 2016

Witnesses report that there was helicopters flying over Marmaris but no explosions as reported before. Implying that Erdogan lied. /u/Slejb

whole thing has a staged feeling to it.

Oren Kessler @OrenKessler
These appear to be pro-coup soldiers being led away by pro-government police
9:38 PM - 15 Jul 2016

Stratfor @Stratfor
Erdogan says over 40 yrs Gulenists infiltrated armed forces, police & other institutions, are a threat to national unity, caused coup, @ntv
9:42 PM - 15 Jul 2016

I believe the owner of Chobani Yogurt is tied with the Gulen Movement.

has a Reichstag fire fake-feeling to it.

Ergoden using fake coup to consolidate power?

In comment 13034586 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

has a Reichstag fire fake-feeling to it. Ergoden using fake coup to consolidate power?

Wouldn't surprise me. Erdogan is one slimy, sneaky bastard.

Kind of surreal to watch this. I wasn't the biggest fan of Istanbul but it was a peaceful, nice city.

Too many people would have to be involved. A bunch of those in the coup will be shot.

Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters 2m2 minutes ago
More than 130 people detained in relation to coup attempt: Turkish PM.

About what is at stake
Turkey - ( New Window )

.

this ***is fascinatingly odd

In comment 13034571 sphinx said:

Quote:

Has Avrat @hasavrat Erdoğan: "This event (coup) is the grace of God. We will cleanse traitors from within TSK." https://twitter.com/sahmetsahmet/status/754123510944071681 � 9:26 PM - 15 Jul 2016

A purge then

I'm looking at all the facebook live feeds in ankara and istanbul and all the tanks are abandoned, and it looks like civilians are pulling the artillery shells out of the tank
Link - ( New Window )

And yet this really is bizarre. Within the span of a few hours Erdogan goes from fleeing the country and issuing statements via Facetime to triumphantly flying into Istanbul? A coup that had enough strength to command sizeable army units as well as planes and helicopters just crumples in one evening? It just seems way too fast.

the live video broadcast features are such gamechangers

something smells fishy about this whole thing.

I'm not buying Merkel didn't allow him to land in Germany.

He's already made the country less secular and less democratic. If this results in him having more power it will be bad for Turkey and bad for the Middle East.

amirite?

When you do a coup you do so understanding that if you fail to win you, your side, and everyone you care about will be killed. Doesn't matter what country you are in, there is a price to losing and everyone knows what it is.

This is over way too easy. Like lambs to the slaughter.

In comment 13034678 Patrick77 said:

Quote:

When you do a coup you do so understanding that if you fail to win you, your side, and everyone you care about will be killed. Doesn't matter what country you are in, there is a price to losing and everyone knows what it is. This is over way too easy. Like lambs to the slaughter.

They were conscripted soldiers. Many were just following orders from some higher ups and didn't understand what was going on. That's why the coup in Russia failed. Conscripted soldiers do not have it in them to turn the gun on family and friends.

In comment 13034586 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

has a Reichstag fire fake-feeling to it. Ergoden using fake coup to consolidate power?

Coincidence?

On the implications of yesterday's events. None of which are really good.
Coup - ( New Window )

Interesting that I'm reading about that here, but have not heard of this from the talking heads??? I worry about Erdogan and his slow purging of his opposition, and his moves to be autocratic. Why do we not hear of this in the media?? Is this an intelligence failure??

In comment 13034655 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

something smells fishy about this whole thing.

Correct- orchestrated by erdogan who thinks he now emerges with more power and control- guy is a dictator. In this event he wins

Reb...yeah looks like a setback for the people of Turkey and Europe and the me.

Yeah it might be an intelligence failure.

Might be good or bad for PKK. They have staying power and military morale is not going to go higher.

But Iraq and Iran remain unable to show they are stable enough to draw external capital and both remain without a way to get their oil out of the ground efficiently at anywhere near a clearing price nor transported nor their reserves risk adjusted attractive enough to draw investment capital.

That all hurts the East and Russia.

Eurasia is not a fun place this century ( for further insight see kickers chart on the other thread).

It appears law passed a few weeks ago "restructuring for efficiency" top courts was the last straw for a segment of the military.


"Under the new law, most of the 711 judges at two of the highest courts - the Council of State, which hears cases lodged by citizens against the government, and the Supreme Court of Appeals - will be removed. It is not clear how many of them will be reappointed.

There will be fewer judges and new appointments will be carried out by the High Council of Judges and Prosecutors (HSYK), which oversees judicial appointments and falls under the control of the Justice Ministry.

Erdogan will also be able to appoint a quarter of the judges at the Council of State, allowing him to stack one of the country's most important legal bodies with his allies."
Link - ( New Window )

He wrote a piece in March titled "Could there be a coup in Turkey?" (linked)

He made a really interesting point. Erdogan purged the top level of the military (multi-star generals) so that the people left are loyalists. He's been in power for 14 years meaning that everyone from Majors on down are in the Erdogan camp. So there was just this little slice left in the Colonel to Brigadier general range who are not naturally Ergodan's loyalists. Rubin said that basically it was now or never for this group, as their numbers and power were going to dwindle thru the up and out process.

Link - ( New Window )

ANKARA, July 16 (Reuters) - Turkish authorities on Saturday removed 2,745 judges from duty following an attempted coup by a military faction overnight, broadcaster NTV reported, citing a decision by the High Council of Judges and Prosectors (HSYK).

Five members of HSYK, Turkey's highest judiciary board, were also removed, state-run Anadolu Agency reported.

In comment 13034798 sphinx said:

Quote:

ANKARA, July 16 (Reuters) - Turkish authorities on Saturday removed 2,745 judges from duty following an attempted coup by a military faction overnight, broadcaster NTV reported, citing a decision by the High Council of Judges and Prosectors (HSYK). Five members of HSYK, Turkey's highest judiciary board, were also removed, state-run Anadolu Agency reported.

A military and judicial purge

will be at war with Turkey
Reuters:
Any country that stands by the Muslim cleric Fethullah Gulen will not be a friend of Turkey and will be considered at war with the NATO member, Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said on Saturday.

The government said that followers of Gulen, who has been living in self-imposed exile in the United States for years, were behind the attempted coup by a faction of the military on Friday.

The government accuses Gulen of trying to build a "parallel structure" within the judiciary, education system, media and military as a way to overthrow the state, a charge the cleric denies.
Link - ( New Window )

2 terms is enough for the executive branch.

Affect the US, EU, if Erdogan moves towards a Caliphate as opposed to a democratic nation? There's a lot to take in here, trying to see how this affects our relationship with Turkey, does it remain status quo??

Look at Egypt, you had an election, due to fecklessness, outdated ideas and overreaching of the Egyptian moderates and or secularists (and particular western associates of them?), an Islamist, supporter of I.S. and A.Q. Morsi, won.

Without help or guideance from the West, the Egyptian military took over, doing possibly for us what we were unwilling to do politically or covertly for ourselves (politically).

Back in Turkey, after being thwarted on an E.U. entry application, Turkey elects an Islamist (Erdogan) and shortly thereafter, Syria becomes destabilized, with a strong Al_Queda style movement (ISIL) growing rapidly on the Syrian border with Turkey.

One wonders how a NATO member can allow or even vet that, Bizzarro world, NATO as dickless wonders again, just when NATO/EU is bumbling and fumbling Ukraine.

Details?

Early reports of Coup in Turkey say "widespread" "powerful coup" and "long time coming" to "put islamists back in their place"...then..

Erdogan must have been tipped off weeks in advance, is not anywhere to be found, and response is well co-ordinated. Who tipped him off?

(Turkish?) Jet leaves airbase (shared with USA? vetted by USA?) in support of islamist leader, shoots down secularist helicopter over capital.

Obama simultaneously supports strongly Islamist leader verbally.

Islamist wins and immediately fires 2,300 JUDGES (who had nothing to do with the coup), in addition to purging secularists from military.

MSNBC says "its all good"

Did I miss anything?

I wonder what kind of impact this will have on Incirlik.

Yemen, Egypt, Turkey, Syria has been a lack of unified vision, lack of human intelligence locally and basically either wallowing in neutral or even being played by the enemy.

Obama pulled the rug out from under them.

yesterday, I did not expect this to happen!

In comment 13034565 Milton said:

Quote:

In comment 13034443 SanFranNowNCGiantsFan said: Quote: Sometimes the alternative is much, much worse. And sometimes it's much better. Like with Egypt, you have a military coup against a democratically elected Islamist who has been slowly stripping away democracy since he got into office. You can't have a democracy without freedom of the press.

Very good point. Democracy is not just elections. It requires fundamental rights such as free speech and freedom of religion. Without those you don't have democracy

who currently lives and owns a business in Istanbul:

Quote:

Put into words my family's exact experience. "Like many others in Turkey we'd been discussing the option of leaving the country for the past few years. Feeling terribly insecure and hopeless on many levels, I wanted to just go, wherever where we can find some form of peace for our kid while my husband found it unrealistic. A few months ago I asked him: "What needs to happen for you to decide to leave?" And he said:"If there are tanks in our neigborbood, I'll leave." Yesterday, on the worst night of our lives so far, that moment came." from a friend's status on facebook.

Going forward.

''RE: RE: While Edrogan is awful...
Vanzetti : 12:04 pm : link : reply

In comment 13034565 Milton said:

Quote:
In comment 13034443 SanFranNowNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Sometimes the alternative is much, much worse.

And sometimes it's much better. Like with Egypt, you have a military coup against a democratically elected Islamist who has been slowly stripping away democracy since he got into office. You can't have a democracy without freedom of the press.


Very good point. Democracy is not just elections. It requires fundamental rights such as free speech and freedom of religion. Without those you don't have democracy''

and the bad guys are not dumb, in one place they will use bombs, in another votes, but the 'in end' goal, you wont like at all either way.

'objectivity' its getting absurd, they bend over backwards to understand the bad guys:

Example, on France 24 today, they interviewed basically a muslim brotherhood guy who spoke as an apologist for the truck killer terrorist's long history of crime and sin, saying that in certain cases (martyrdom a.k.a. terror to them) all would be forgiven. (as opposed to how we seek redemption, the opposite way)

not as in context of 'explaining the mind set of the bad guys' it was present in a much more neutral way than that, could easily have been taken as a recruitment essay, really was presented in a very neutral way...the bad guys are very foxy and sneaky,

why France 24 would give that guy airtime right now is beyond me.

its in the constant equivocating, the constant reminders of the narrative, the constant reversion to reminding us of our own sins of yore, as if that all might explain or excuse these acts of terror and violence, which it doesn't,and they dont.

The Associated Press ‏@AP 1 minute ago
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan demands the US extradite the Muslim cleric he blames for attempted coup.

and closed the airspace over our airbase there, so much for the vaunted 'help against ISIL'

our jets etc are suddenly locked down

which supposed Turkish 'help vs ISIL' had been -vastly- overstated by our media in the first place.

(WSJ)


'' Updated July 16, 2016 12:37 p.m. ET

1 COMMENTS

The Turkish government has closed the airspace around Incirlik Air Base in Turkey�s south, putting a temporary halt to coalition airstrikes against Islamic State from the country, according U.S. defense officials.

Turkey closed the space citing safety concerns, the official said. The move followed the attempted coup against President Recep Tayyip Erdogan�s government.

�U.S. officials are working with the Turks to resume air operations there as soon as possible,� said Pentagon press secretary Peter Cook.

Incirlik is a U.S. base about 60 miles from the Syrian border, giving U.S. jets and unmanned drones critical logistics for daily attacks on the radical group compared with other sites across the region in use. The official said the military would compensate by shifting operations to other bases. British bases on nearby Cyprus could be used, as could bases in Iraq.

�U.S. Central Command is adjusting flight operations in the counter-ISIL campaign to minimize any effects on the campaign,� Mr. Cook said.



Military personnel are also being asked not to leave the base, where about 1,700 U.S. service members are stationed. Turkey originally closed access to and from the base, although those restrictions have been lifted. U.S. Service members are now being ordered to remain on base to comply with State Department advice for Americans to shelter in place.
''

we have Nukes there

a lovely little present for the ISILs 'Uncle Erdogan'

to our airbase there, barred in-out personel

1. Did the replacement of Ozel by Akar as head of the Turkish military in 2015, along with other senior staff changes, mean that the army would never move as a unified force? Was the Gulen faction moving with what they had with little chance for success?

2. Is the US now going to be presented with a "no Gulen, no Incerlik" ultimatum from Erdogan? How do they respond? How does a potential death penalty, allowed in parts of the US but not favored by the President or Secretary of State, come into play?

3. Does Erdogan move Turkey towards a Putin style cleptocracy of a fundamentalist Islamic State?

4. What happens to the PKK? They didn't participate but would make a convenient scapegoat.

5. Does whatever direction Erdogan takes create a whole new class of refugees? Either a small majority or sizable minority of Turks want a Western lifestyle. If he moves in a fundamentalist direction where do they end up and what impact does it have on the Turkish economy?

6. Where does the leadership of the Turkish military end up. Does Erdogan's military end up like Chavez' oil industry in Venezuela?

Kerry says ''USA will consider extradition of Gulan''

(who possibly had no idea about all this)

(and I get the subtext, we need to make 'as normal' our base operations there in short term, the jets and above all our people)

BUT

Can we push our own ass any higher? pass the K-Y anyone?

that this whole thing was staged.

In comment 13034579 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

I believe the owner of Chobani Yogurt is tied with the Gulen Movement.

the founder of Chobani - funding the muslim brotherhood. Who knows what you are supporting when you buy a cup of that over-rated sour crap.

In comment 13034770 Bleedin Blue said:

Quote:

Interesting that I'm reading about that here, but have not heard of this from the talking heads??? I worry about Erdogan and his slow purging of his opposition, and his moves to be autocratic. Why do we not hear of this in the media?? Is this an intelligence failure??

Lol. The media gives you what they want you to hear. They ceased reporting the news a long time ago. They MAKE it.

In comment 13035028 idiotsavant said:

Quote:

Kerry says ''USA will consider extradition of Gulan'' (who possibly had no idea about all this) (and I get the subtext, we need to make 'as normal' our base operations there in short term, the jets and above all our people) BUT Can we push our own ass any higher? pass the K-Y anyone?

Knock it off, fuckwit. You're going to get this thread deleted.

In comment 13035031 Ira said:

Quote:

that this whole thing was staged.

Would have to be pretty elaborate. About 8 officers flew helicopter to Greece requesting asylum. The Greeks have acknowledged.

First, our own extradition requests are frequently denied, even from close allies like UK and Japan. Most notably the Enon exes.

Secondly, we can deny extradition on several grounds, particularly is if the defendant is accused of a political offense. Which is probably when Erdogen is framing this as "terrorism" and not a coup.

...his closest advisor:

The Associated Press ‏@AP 3 minutes ago
BREAKING: Turkey's state-run media: 7 prosecutors enter base key to US-led fight against IS militants as part of probe into coup.

In comment 13036396 sphinx said:

Quote:

The Associated Press �@AP 3 minutes ago BREAKING: Turkey's state-run media: 7 prosecutors enter base key to US-led fight against IS militants as part of probe into coup.

Incirlik was jointly used by US and Turkish forces. This may or may not be an issue depending on the scope of their actions.

Makes me think along Eric's theory that this was all done for him to consolidate power and push the country more religious governing

Erdogan would be an extraordinarily fortunate fella indeed for such an inept, bumbling coup to come about at such an opportune moment. A Reuters source said that two F-16s were on Erdogan's plane but for inexplicable reasons didn't shoot it down. Huh? I saw a link somewhere to this piece by an expat Turkish journalist in Sweden. I can't vouch for this guy because I know nothing about him, but it's an interesting read:

Quote:

More surprising for me is the amateurishness of the attempted coup on the night of July 15. As a veteran observer of military coups and coup attempts in Turkey, I have never seen any with this magnitude of such inexplicable sloppiness..... In no previous military coup or coup attempt in Turkey�s history has parliament been bombed by military helicopters and fighter jets. Why did the coup attempt begin with blocking one side of Istanbul's Bosporus Bridge? Why was the passage from the Asian side to Europe blocked while the passage from Europe to Asia was allowed to flow? Why did the putschists � knowing that Erdogan was neither in Ankara nor Istanbul but instead spending his vacation in the Mediterranean seaside town of Marmaris � not move to detain him? They let him travel from Marmaris to the nearby Dalaman airport and then fly to Istanbul on a flight that took over an hour. Why did the putschists not seize the main TV news channels and instead waste precious time taking over the least-watched state TV channel, TRT, allowing their targets to regroup and use more popular channels and social media effectively to challenge the coup attempt?.... Twenty-four hours had not passed after the collapse of the coup attempt when 140 judges � judges of the Court of Appeals and 48 judges of the Council of State, two of the highest judiciary institutions � were taken into custody. Summarily purged from the judiciary apparatus were another 2,475 judges. A member of the Constitutional Court, the highest institution of the judiciary, was arrested and charged with association with the putschists.

On top of that, the Turkish Interior Ministry suspended almost 9,000 officials over the weekend, including 30 provincial governors and 47 district governors. This is within 2-3 days of the start of the coup. That's an awfully large number of people to purge in such a short time.
Link - ( New Window )

Pretty obvious now. It's a purge. Turkey in a decade will be more akin to Syria than a European nation.

All hail Grand Emperor Gollum.

Reuters



'At the height of the attempt to overthrow Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan, the rebel pilots of two F-16 fighter jets had Erdogan's plane in their sights. And yet he was able to fly on.

The Turkish leader was returning to Istanbul from a holiday near the coastal resort of Marmaris after a faction in the military launched the coup attempt on Friday night, sealing off a bridge across the Bosphorus, trying to capture Istanbul's main airport and sending tanks to parliament in Ankara.

"At least two F-16s harassed Erdogan's plane while it was in the air and en route to Istanbul. They locked their radars on his plane and on two other F-16s protecting him," a former military officer with knowledge of the events told Reuters.

"Why they didn't fire is a mystery," he said.

A successful overthrow of Erdogan, who has ruled the country of about 80 million people since 2003, could have sent Turkey spiraling into conflict and marked another seismic shift in the Middle East, five years after the Arab uprisings erupted and plunged its southern neighbor Syria into civil war.

A senior Turkish official confirmed to Reuters that Erdogan's business jet had been harassed while flying from the airport that serves Marmaris by two F-16s commandeered by the coup plotters but that he had managed to reach Istanbul safely.

A second senior official also said the presidential jet had been "in trouble in the air" but gave no details.

Erdogan said as the coup unfolded that the plotters had tried to attack him in the resort town of Marmaris and had bombed places he had been at shortly after he left. He "evaded death by minutes", the second official said.

Around 25 soldiers in helicopters descended on a hotel in Marmaris on ropes, shooting, just after Erdogan had left in an apparent attempt to seize him, broadcaster CNN Turk said.

Prime Minister Binali Yildirim had also been directly targeted in Istanbul during the coup bid and had narrowly escaped, the official said, without giving details.

Flight tracker websites showed a Gulfstream IV aircraft, a type of business jet owned by the Turkish government, take off from Dalaman airport, which is about an hour and a quarter's drive from Marmaris, at about 2240 GMT on Friday.

It later circled in what appeared to be a holding pattern just south of Istanbul, around the time when a Reuters witness in the airport was still hearing bursts of gunfire, before finally coming in to land.

Salon had a piece on how Obama worked to build a deep personal friendship with Erdogan, hour long calls on personal matters, starting in 2008.

Was the best for that region. Noth that has happened since has changed my opinion. Turkey is an ally on paper and only when it's convenient for Erdogan. He's Putin at this point IMO. And like Putin he wants more power and control and is taking what he wants. He won't stop anytime soon

In comment 13035027 njm said:

Quote:

1. Did the replacement of Ozel by Akar as head of the Turkish military in 2015, along with other senior staff changes, mean that the army would never move as a unified force? Was the Gulen faction moving with what they had with little chance for success? 2. Is the US now going to be presented with a "no Gulen, no Incerlik" ultimatum from Erdogan? How do they respond? How does a potential death penalty, allowed in parts of the US but not favored by the President or Secretary of State, come into play? 3. Does Erdogan move Turkey towards a Putin style cleptocracy of a fundamentalist Islamic State? 4. What happens to the PKK? They didn't participate but would make a convenient scapegoat. 5. Does whatever direction Erdogan takes create a whole new class of refugees? Either a small majority or sizable minority of Turks want a Western lifestyle. If he moves in a fundamentalist direction where do they end up and what impact does it have on the Turkish economy? 6. Where does the leadership of the Turkish military end up. Does Erdogan's military end up like Chavez' oil industry in Venezuela?

In a press conference this afternoon Erdogan refused to rule out the death penalty. Point 2 has become very relevant.

mostly military and police and another maybe another 18,000 fired civil servants, judges and so forth.

Is it s fairly safe bet that all are people who believe in the basics of civil society, law, freedom of press, secularism and so forth?


I would wonder who gave Erdogan the tip off.

are reminding Erdogan to maintain rule of law and not re-institute the death penalty.

How long has it been since Turkey really gave a fuck about what they say?

The Associated Press ‏@AP 2 minutes ago
BREAKING: Turkey's state media says ministry of education sacks 15,200 for alleged ties to group govt blames for failed coup.

They sure had those enemies lists ready and waiting.

In comment 13037602 sphinx said:

Quote:

The Associated Press �@AP 2 minutes ago BREAKING: Turkey's state media says ministry of education sacks 15,200 for alleged ties to group govt blames for failed coup.

One wonders how the coup failed if all 15,200 were participants. Or is Erdogan purging anyone that ever had any connections with Gulen.

Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters 2 minutes ago
'We will dig them up by their roots': 50,000 targeted in Turkish purge after failed coup

Around 50,000 soldiers, police, judges, civil servants and teachers have been suspended or detained since the coup attempt, stirring tensions across the country of 80 million which borders Syria's chaos and is a Western ally against Islamic State.

"This parallel terrorist organization will no longer be an effective pawn for any country," Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said, referring to what the government has long alleged is a state within a state controlled by followers of Fethullah Gulen.

"We will dig them up by their roots," he told parliament.
Link - ( New Window )

The Associated Press ‏@AP 47 seconds ago
The Latest: Turkish media says the government begins to revoke the licenses of 21,000 teachers at private schools.

"Whoa, man, 50,000 people? Isn't that a bit hasty?"

is a hallmark for rule in that part of the world.

Education is in direct conflict with instituting laws best served in the Dark Ages

In comment 13038863 sphinx said:

Quote:

The Associated Press �@AP 47 seconds ago The Latest: Turkish media says the government begins to revoke the licenses of 21,000 teachers at private schools.

There are roughly 300 Gulen Movement Schools in Turkey so those teachers are the likely target.

Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters 8 minutes ago
BREAKING: Turkey's President Erdogan says there may have been foreign countries involved in coup attempt.

Sadly, they are the ones laughing now:

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/international-affairs/288452-turkeys-failed-coup-a-victory-for-isis


''As the July 15 coup attempt was taking place in Turkey, Turkish-speaking ISIS social media lit up against the coup and against the overthrow of Turkey�s president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. ISIS cadres knew if the coup succeeded, it would mean their end in Turkey.''

''Despite Erdogan�s claims that he is fighting ISIS, evidence indicates that he has been, and continues to be, deeply complicit in allowing ISIS to transport, not just recruits via Turkey, but also weapons and supplies. These chilling facts have been confirmed over and again during our ISIS defector interviews. A former emir [commander] told us that ISIS had been able to construct thousands of propane tank bombs from supplies they brought in through Turkey.''

''That ISIS members would cheer for Erdogan and his government and against the attempted coup, shows how much freedom they have been enjoying under Erdogan�s administration. From foreign fighters to traders of ISIS sex slaves, alleged perpetrators have been released from prison without trial.

In March 2016, the leader of ISIS in Turkey, Halis Bayancuk and his deputies, were suddenly released from prison though there was ample evidence of Bayancuk�s activities managing foreign fighter movement and logistical support for ISIS, including helping two French women travel from Istanbul to Gaziantep, a well known border town in southeastern Turkey, to join ISIS.

Similarly, a legal case against Gaziantep businessmen who were facilitating the sale of ISIS sex slaves over the Internet was abruptly closed in a manner unusual for Turkish courts.

As Erdogan has beaten the attempted coup and consolidated even more power to himself, it appears that ISIS also scored a big win. And it begs the question, should we expect more ISIS attacks if its cadres are able to more freely move people and supplies across the Syrian border via Turkey, ISIS� gateway into Europe and beyond?''

Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters 2 minutes ago
BREAKING: Turkey will have a state of emergency for three months to tackle Gulen movement - President Erdogan

Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters 2 minutes ago
MORE: Turkey's three-month state of emergency not against rule of law or freedoms - President Erdogan

(hurriyetdailynews): from 2012

''U.S. President Barack Obama named Turkey's Recep Tayyip Erdoğan among the five leaders that he has established relations based on confidence, in an interview with Time.

In an interview with Fareed Zakaria, the Editor-at-Large of Time magazine, Obama named Turkish PM Erdoğan, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, South Korean President Lee Myung-bak, and British Prime Minister David Cameron among leaders that he was able to forge "bonds of trust."

and then, RealClearPolitics 2015:

''By Victor Davis Hanson
December 04, 2015
Turkey often appeals to the West for support, given its longtime membership in NATO. Now, Turkish leadership is in a shouting match with Russia's provocative president, Vladimir Putin, over Turkey's downing of a Russian jet in probable Turkish airspace. Each country has accused the other of helping terrorists in Syria.

The problem with Turkey and the West, however, is that their relationship is decades out of date. What was once an alliance is now nothing special at all.


Barack Obama used to lecture reluctant Europeans about why they should accept Turkey into the European Union as its first Islamic member. Obama boasted of a "special friendship" with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. As president, Obama suddenly forgot the promise he made as a senator to formally acknowledge the Armenian genocide committed by the Turks in the early 1900s

Turkey has become a favorite stop abroad for Obama to lecture his fellow Americans about their ethical shortcomings, from past treatment of Native Americans to their present supposed xenophobia over not accepting Syrian refugees en masse.

Yet the more Obama has appeased Erdogan, the more anti-Western and anti-American Turkey has become.''

The Associated Press ‏@AP 3 minutes ago
Turkey's president declares 3-month state of emergency "to eliminate the threat against democracy."

''Two members of Turkey's constitutional court arrested: NTV
Two members of Turkey's constitutional court were arrested on Wednesday, private broadcaster NTV reported, as purges in the judiciary, military, civil service and education widen in the aftermath of a failed coup.

About 60,000 soldiers, police, judges, civil servants and teachers have been suspended, detained or are under investigation since Friday's attempted coup staged by a faction within the armed forces.

The two constitutional court members were among a group of 113 officials from the judiciary formally arrested on Wednesday, NTV said. Formal charges were also brought against President Tayyip Erdogan's chief aide-de-camp, it said.

The failed putsch and the ensuing purges have seriously unsettled Turkey, a country of nearly 80 million which borders Syria and is a Western ally against Islamic State.

(Reporting by Seda Sezer and Ece Toksabay; Writing by David Dolan; Editing by Gareth Jones)''

Doing nothing again?

Syria 2.0? Or Russia 2.0? Either one sucks.

The Associated Press ‏@AP 42 seconds ago
BREAKING: Turkey deputy prime minister says his country to suspend European human rights convention under new state of emergency.

In comment 13040113 sphinx said:

Quote:

The Associated Press ‏@AP 42 seconds ago BREAKING: Turkey deputy prime minister says his country to suspend European human rights convention under new state of emergency.

It's like an open invitation to torture, murder, and disappear any threat to Gollum's power. What's next concentration camps?

looks like we've resumed air strikes from Incirlik AFB. Surprised this story hasn't make it into the US press.


US Airstrike from Incirlik - ( New Window )

In comment 13040525 BamaBlue said:

Quote:

looks like we've resumed air strikes from Incirlik AFB. Surprised this story hasn't make it into the US press. US Airstrike from Incirlik - ( New Window )

It made television news, as had the resumption of flights out of Incirlik

Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters 19m19 minutes ago
BREAKING: No obstacle to extending Turkey's state of emergency beyond initial three months - Erdogan tells Reuters

MORE: Limited constitutional change might be possible with consensus of other parties - Turkey's Erdogan tells Reuters

MORE: Turkey's Erdogan says 4,060 people arrested since coup attempt, including 103 military generals

MORE: Turkey's Erdogan says 246 people other than plotters killed in coup attempt

ISIS and associated movements is much better than ours, you think its a coincidence that they rallied so quickly? That they are pushing the civilians killed angle all of a sudden, they play the post modern game better than we do, means towards an ironic end.

Discussed the "coup" among other issues. Said the intel he has doesn't show any involvement by Gulen.

Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters 10 minutes ago
Turkey's Erdogan, using emergency decree, shuts private schools, charities, unions

Link - ( New Window )

Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters 15 seconds ago
Turkey detains 42 journalists in crackdown as Europe sounds alarm

One of these camps that holds generals involved in this coup attempt, the men are stripped down to just their underwear and hundreds of bodies stocked on top of themselves.

Several of the lower ranking soldiers who just were following orders, were thrown to pro-Erdogan civilians and beaten to death.

Erdogan's Prime Minister, Binali Yildirim, has also proposed to changing their constitution so that these plotters could be executed.

Unfortunately, things in Turkey will get a lot more worst over the coming years. Wouldn't surprise me if Erdogan just declares himself Sultan of Turkey at some point in the future.

The Associated Press 2 minutes ago
Turkey orders dozens of media organizations to close, which could raise domestic, international tensions.

.

actually an interesting commentary by Fox News:

"If today�s Western leaders possess one general trait, it�s a genius for self-deception. Insisting that Islamist terror has nothing to do with Islam, or that religion has no strategic impact, or that all human beings want freedom and democracy, amounts to declaring that up is down, right is left and night is day.

And midnight is coming for millions in Turkey, even as we insist that a dying flashlight is the sun.

Over the past few years, many Americans heard the term �caliphate� for the first time as ISIS declared that the territory it seized from Iraq and Syria was the caliphate reborn. To us, �caliphate� appeared to be just another name for a vast torture chamber. But for hundreds of millions of Muslims, many of whom have nothing to do with ISIS, the caliphate is associated with a lost and much-romanticized golden age when the caliph, who was also the Turkish sultan, claimed spiritual dominion over all Muslims.

In the 14th century, the Ottomans revived the still-older concept of a caliphate, declaring that the sultan and caliph were one. It remained so until 1924, when Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, the great modernizer, abolished the office as a relic, insisting that Turks had to build a new Turkey and not lay claim to an enervating empire, temporal or spiritual.

At the time, the Muslim world split into two camps. On March 8, 1924, The Economist captured the difference: For Turks and other nationalities newly free of Ottoman rule, �the Western idea of nationality is in the ascendant and the Caliphate is losing its power over the imagination.� So far, so good.

But the journal went on to note that for Muslims under colonial rule, �the Caliphate carries a message of salvation through an international Muslim solidarity.�

That message of salvation, if not yet of solidarity, is back. The ragtag ISIS caliphate is merely the forerunner of the more ambitious caliphate to come.

It�s coming in Turkey.

Convinced that history has no relevance, those same self-deluded Western leaders and diplomats refuse to recognize President Recep Tayyip Erdogan�s vision for �his� Turkey. He dreams not only of neo-Ottoman glory, but of a caliphate reborn and led by a Turk. (Might anyone venture a guess as to his candidate?) Essentially, the sultan and caliph both would be back on a Turkish throne.

Today, Istanbul. Tomorrow, the world...."

(told you Bill2)

you did not tell us anything

you said stuff.

In comment 13048815 Bill2 said:

Quote:

you did not tell us anything you said stuff.

Hey Bill. Did you see the article on Turkey in last weekends WSJ?

In comment 13048217 idiotsavant said:

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actually an interesting commentary by Fox News: Today, Istanbul. Tomorrow, the world...." (told you Bill2)

Interesting or bullshit?

this is what you did not tell us:

The person who tweeted that explained at length he was mocking

the person is a party leader in a minor Eastern province not a person close to power

two thats not the way he meant caliphate ( he meant that people underestimated Erdogan)

three he was referring to a ruling not a goal

four the politician in question has a reputation of saying oddball stuff

Five i would not take anyone in the journalism worlds opinion on Turkey. Its has long had the fewest journalists per capita and has one of the highest rates of jailing "jurnalists" and so the ones not in jail are writing what someone wants not actual journalism.

Six, for his inappropriate remarks his twitter is now down and no one has seen him lately.

Sounds like a truly strategic insight from a real insider.

Thats what your stuff which said nothing told us...junk. what you left out was confirmation that you said nothing.

So you told me what exactly? That you copied junk and did not recognize that it was junk? I knew that already.

And so what if Turkey is a caliphate?

All we really really care about is that they do not export terror and they waste lots of money on pipelines that are prone to sabotage and dont matter to us by the time they might get built

We can move our nuclear weapons. And Turkey has no way to lift the economic fortunes of its growing population so eventually what ever government is in power is weak anyway.

Lastly, If i am not in conversation with you then dont post my name on threads i am not on and I will do the same. Thats been an unwritten rule around here for years.

glad your back and posting anyway, its booring as shit right now.

carry on.

The Associated Press 3 minutes ago
BREAKING: Turkish President Erdogan says he will drop all lawsuits against people charged with insulting him.

In comment 13048883 idiotsavant said:

Quote:

glad your back and posting anyway, its booring as shit right now. carry on.

Translation:
"Damn I just got my clock punched in by getting caught regurgitating nonsense from a loony"

Mahir Zeynalov:
Nazli Ilicak, 72 years old veteran of Turkish journalism. A staunch supporter of liberal democracy. Now under arrest

Bulent Mumay. A hard-working man, who made enemies among Erdogan's inner circle for top-notch journalism. Arrested.

Bunyamin Koseli. We used to be roommates. An excellent mind, great investigative reporter. Jailed for doing his job.

Arda Akin. Known for columns that deeply disturbed the government. Roared when necessary, without fear. Arrested.

Busra Erdal. Veteran court reporter. Revered & reviled, made enemies because she never stopped writing. Arrested.

Cemal Kalyoncu. He knew nothing in his life besides reporting and editing. Arrested because he did not bow to power.

Ali Akkus. If Turkey has few excellent newsroom editors, he is among the top. Publisher of graft cases. Arrested.

Abdullah Kilic. Supreme irony that he made headlines for investigating 1960 military coup. Arrested on coup charges.

Ufuk Sanli. His Al Monitor columns shed light on Turkey's economy. An avid reader, excellent reporter. Arrested.

Emre Soncan. To learn anything about the military, he was the reporter to read. Extraordinary journalist. Arrested.

A talented journalist, unwavering editor. Published a series of court investigations. Now paying the price. Arrested

Hasim Soylemez. A general assignment investigative reporter who wrote about almost anything. Price: Arrested.

Bayram Kaya. Made his career by digging into Turkey's economic life. Now under arrest for excellent court reporting.

Yakup Cetin. We know his face because he was live on TV when a story broke out. As every great reporter, arrested.

Cihan Acar. Colleagues called him "cemetery Cihan" for exceptional coverage of funerals, from Kurds to celebrities.

Mehmet Gundem. Hardly anyone could get away when he asked questions. An interview geek. Arrested.

Sahin Alpay. I don't know anyone else who fought for Turkish democracy more than him. A champion of rights. Arrested

Ahmet T. Alkan. He made his point through satire. Was a marvelous novelist. Now with head held high, going to jail.

Ali Bulac. A powerful mind, one of Turkey's rare Islamist sociologists. Refused to bow to Erdogan. Arrested.

Mumtazer Turkone. Tortured in jails after 1980 coup. With exceptional writing, always advocated liberties. Arrested.

Hilmi Yavuz. Almost as old as Turkey itself, a great literary mind, an extraordinary poet and columnist. Arrested.

Yakup Saglam. From riots to war, Yakup was on the spot when something went wrong. Refused to applaud govt - arrested

Ahmet Memis. Guru of digital journalism. Give him a news portal and see its rating hit the roof. A critic - arrested

Nuriye Akman. Give her a cup of coffee and she would ask the most amazing questions. Interview nerd. Arrested.

Faruk Akkan. Perhaps the most prolific writer in Turkey. Made career by reporting from Moscow. Arrested.

Faruk Akkan. Perhaps the most prolific writer in Turkey. Made career by reporting from Moscow. Arrested.