Beckham/Martin are cheap which greatly increases their value. T Smith is a top 3 LT in the NFL today, but is also paid like one, which hurts his value.
With that in mind, I wouldn't even trade Beckham for Watt or Von Miller. Beckham provides far more value as an elite WR still on a rookie deal.
Khalil Mack/Aaron Donald would be another story though. I'd think long and hard about dealing him for one of them.
Both Smith and Martin are very good players but OBJ is a game changer. He is a player that elevates the play of others, he's a difference maker, he's exciting and can change the course of a game with one play. There are very few players who can do that. That said a good offensive line can be made with average players, with continuity, with trust and the ability to function as one through the unit. We have seen this before with the Giants.
If you're throwing in a couple of first round and second round picks, then maybe. Otherwise NO
We suck out loud WITH OBJ. How can it get worse? A good o line can mask average skill players.
That not really true. The Giants had a good oline in 1994 and 1995 and the offense was still dreadful.
More often than not NFL titles are won on the backs of impact players. You can win NFL titles with average olines and its happened numerous times over the last ten years. How many Super Bowls were won by teams with average Wrs? Maybe one.
Beckham/Martin are cheap which greatly increases their value. T Smith is a top 3 LT in the NFL today, but is also paid like one, which hurts his value.
With that in mind, I wouldn't even trade Beckham for Watt or Von Miller. Beckham provides far more value as an elite WR still on a rookie deal.
Khalil Mack/Aaron Donald would be another story though. I'd think long and hard about dealing him for one of them.
In 2017 and 2018 Smith's cap number is 15,800,000 which is top dollar, but after that the contract is very cap friendly for a top LT. Over the course of the 10 year contract it is cheap for a top LT. Smith needs a better agent.
This trade question has been posed from a NY point of view, but Dallas is the wrong team for a trade. Dallas has Bryant, there is no need for a WR. The trade should have been posed with a team that needs a WR that has position players NY needs in return.
We suck out loud WITH OBJ. How can it get worse? A good o line can mask average skill players.
That not really true. The Giants had a good oline in 1994 and 1995 and the offense was still dreadful.
More often than not NFL titles are won on the backs of impact players. You can win NFL titles with average olines and its happened numerous times over the last ten years. How many Super Bowls were won by teams with average Wrs? Maybe one.
Agreed. We won a superbowl in 2011 with an average OL and great wideouts and a TE that was clutch. You ain't winning without great skill position guys in today's NFL. Plus in this offense it is 3 steps and throw. Hard to really nail Eli with that quick set.
who have won titles with mediocre OL's is pretty long. But you won't find many titles without either an elite QB or an elite WR. Luckily, we have both.
who have won titles with mediocre OL's is pretty long. But you won't find many titles without either an elite QB or an elite WR. Luckily, we have both.
We suck out loud WITH OBJ. How can it get worse? A good o line can mask average skill players.
Still surprised how many fans struggle to grasp this, but the Giants sucked the past 2 years bc of our defense. Our offense was one of the better units in the league despite the so-so line.
We were 8th overall in offense last year and 32nd in defense. That's why we spent our FA money and draft picks there
who have won titles with mediocre OL's is pretty long. But you won't find many titles without either an elite QB or an elite WR. Luckily, we have both.
we lost to one of them :(
This and 86 and 90 teams won without elite qb and/wr's
who have won titles with mediocre OL's is pretty long. But you won't find many titles without either an elite QB or an elite WR. Luckily, we have both.
we lost to one of them :(
This and 86 and 90 teams won without elite qb and/wr's
You really can't compare those teams to those of the 2000's as NFL rules have changed. It is a passing league now, big time.
I truly believe OBJ is the best way fens I've player I've ever seen. He and Eli will win a fee
I really want to understand what this says but I can't. It's frustrating really.
Sorry...autocorrect on the phone f'd that one up.
It was supposed to say OBJ is the best offensive player I've ever seen. He and Eli will win a few games a year by themselves. Two OL won't make them a better team without OBJ.
Two first round picks playing at a high level for one first round pick playing at a higher level, yeah I'll make that trade. As great as OBJ can play he will still just be one player in a team sport.
Only someone as grotesquely stupid as Colin Cowherd could dream up something like that. First of all, this notion that Tryon Smith and Zack Martin are equivalent to Jonathan Ogden and Larry Allen is silly. They're very good linemen, Pro Bowl quality linemen. Odell Beckham is on another level entirely. He's going to be fast-tracked to Canton if he stays healthy.
Age is a factor for me. Smith and Martin will be 26 this year. Beckham will be 24. Who knows which ones stay healthy or don't fade.
With those two the Giants offensive line could have Jerry, Hart, and Newhouse on the bench with a dominant front 5. The problem is the pass catchers and running backs would need to rely on that line excessively in order to get open and run the ball with any effectiveness.
Beckham can mask a lot of OL issues because you just need to find ways to get the ball in his hands, he can do the rest.
I wouldn't do it.
Beckham for Von Miller and Demaryius Thomas is a trade I would do. Beckham for Bryant and Tyron Smith I would do. That's mostly because the Giants likely have a 3 year window left with Eli, maybe more.
who have won titles with mediocre OL's is pretty long. But you won't find many titles without either an elite QB or an elite WR. Luckily, we have both.
we lost to one of them :(
This and 86 and 90 teams won without elite qb and/wr's
Hoss and Simms were anything but average and I wasn't talking about the NFL from 25 years ago. I was talking the last 10-15 years. It's a different league now. Over the last ten years how many mediocre olines were part of a super bowl winning team? I can think of at least 5. How many average QB/WR tandems won in that same time frame? Maybe one.
Age is a factor for me. Smith and Martin will be 26 this year. Beckham will be 24. Who knows which ones stay healthy or don't fade.
With those two the Giants offensive line could have Jerry, Hart, and Newhouse on the bench with a dominant front 5. The problem is the pass catchers and running backs would need to rely on that line excessively in order to get open and run the ball with any effectiveness.
Beckham can mask a lot of OL issues because you just need to find ways to get the ball in his hands, he can do the rest.
I wouldn't do it.
Beckham for Von Miller and Demaryius Thomas is a trade I would do. Beckham for Bryant and Tyron Smith I would do. That's mostly because the Giants likely have a 3 year window left with Eli, maybe more.
Why would Denver or Dallas trade Thomas or Bryant plus another player for a WR they already have?
Next you will have Pittsburgh trading Brown and Bell for Beckham.
Age is a factor for me. Smith and Martin will be 26 this year. Beckham will be 24. Who knows which ones stay healthy or don't fade.
With those two the Giants offensive line could have Jerry, Hart, and Newhouse on the bench with a dominant front 5. The problem is the pass catchers and running backs would need to rely on that line excessively in order to get open and run the ball with any effectiveness.
Beckham can mask a lot of OL issues because you just need to find ways to get the ball in his hands, he can do the rest.
I wouldn't do it.
Beckham for Von Miller and Demaryius Thomas is a trade I would do. Beckham for Bryant and Tyron Smith I would do. That's mostly because the Giants likely have a 3 year window left with Eli, maybe more.
Why would Denver or Dallas trade Thomas or Bryant plus another player for a WR they already have?
Next you will have Pittsburgh trading Brown and Bell for Beckham.
They wouldn't...
Dallas wouldn't trade Zach Martin and Tyron smith for Beckham either.
Next you will have to google hypothetical situations.
Age is a factor for me. Smith and Martin will be 26 this year. Beckham will be 24. Who knows which ones stay healthy or don't fade.
With those two the Giants offensive line could have Jerry, Hart, and Newhouse on the bench with a dominant front 5. The problem is the pass catchers and running backs would need to rely on that line excessively in order to get open and run the ball with any effectiveness.
Beckham can mask a lot of OL issues because you just need to find ways to get the ball in his hands, he can do the rest.
I wouldn't do it.
Beckham for Von Miller and Demaryius Thomas is a trade I would do. Beckham for Bryant and Tyron Smith I would do. That's mostly because the Giants likely have a 3 year window left with Eli, maybe more.
Why would Denver or Dallas trade Thomas or Bryant plus another player for a WR they already have?
Next you will have Pittsburgh trading Brown and Bell for Beckham.
They wouldn't...
Dallas wouldn't trade Zach Martin and Tyron smith for Beckham either.
Next you will have to google hypothetical situations.
The actual conversation was "QBs make WRs". WRs values are linked to the QB throwing them the ball. An elite QB will make the WRs stats much better then an average QB who will not be able to get the same production, no matter how great the WR is.
The thread then devolves into how great Beckham is and how you could only trade him if the other team gave up the equivalent of Beckham and much more. Totally unrealistic hypothetical situations, not adding anything to the conversation.
Beckham and any top WR is only as good as the QB getting them the ball. There are many really good WRs in the NFL, but WR is a position that a team would not have a hard time finding one. The trade value of a top WR is not as great as most believe because there are so many of them.
Most know I'm a Dallas fan, have been for 48 years. When you look at the team history you will see that Dallas has had a top WR 99% of the time I've been a fan. As great as many of you think Beckham is, once he is gone NY will have the next top WR in place. It's the nature of the beast.
"Beckham and any top WR is only as good as the QB "
Age is a factor for me. Smith and Martin will be 26 this year. Beckham will be 24. Who knows which ones stay healthy or don't fade.
With those two the Giants offensive line could have Jerry, Hart, and Newhouse on the bench with a dominant front 5. The problem is the pass catchers and running backs would need to rely on that line excessively in order to get open and run the ball with any effectiveness.
Beckham can mask a lot of OL issues because you just need to find ways to get the ball in his hands, he can do the rest.
I wouldn't do it.
Beckham for Von Miller and Demaryius Thomas is a trade I would do. Beckham for Bryant and Tyron Smith I would do. That's mostly because the Giants likely have a 3 year window left with Eli, maybe more.
Why would Denver or Dallas trade Thomas or Bryant plus another player for a WR they already have?
Next you will have Pittsburgh trading Brown and Bell for Beckham.
They wouldn't...
Dallas wouldn't trade Zach Martin and Tyron smith for Beckham either.
Next you will have to google hypothetical situations.
The actual conversation was "QBs make WRs". WRs values are linked to the QB throwing them the ball. An elite QB will make the WRs stats much better then an average QB who will not be able to get the same production, no matter how great the WR is.
The thread then devolves into how great Beckham is and how you could only trade him if the other team gave up the equivalent of Beckham and much more. Totally unrealistic hypothetical situations, not adding anything to the conversation.
Beckham and any top WR is only as good as the QB getting them the ball. There are many really good WRs in the NFL, but WR is a position that a team would not have a hard time finding one. The trade value of a top WR is not as great as most believe because there are so many of them.
Most know I'm a Dallas fan, have been for 48 years. When you look at the team history you will see that Dallas has had a top WR 99% of the time I've been a fan. As great as many of you think Beckham is, once he is gone NY will have the next top WR in place. It's the nature of the beast.
No offense, but your response was neglectful and Im glad you said you were a Dallas fan otherwise I would have called you stupid.
Your quarterback cant stay on the field and ODB's catch to TD ratio is unlike we have ever seen....from all of your "top wide receivers". In fact, Beckham broke your bell cow receiver's record for consecutive 90 yard receiving games IN HIS ROOKIE SEASON!
Beckham was the focus of attn of the entire league last year and one of two offensive mismatches (I guess Shane Vereen) and STILL eclipsed his rookie year by 150 yards and a td.
Your vaunted O line looked above average at best because you owned the run game but couldnt keep your qb upright....again. Fact is, Beckham would prob be a better fit for Dallas because of his elusiveness to get into space when Romo scrambled. And Tyrion Smith isnt exactly Walter Jones...he got sonned by Olivier Vernon and JPP has had a pretty decent showing against him too.
Considering you still have Collins, I think you're full of shit. I think Jones would actually blow Reese at midfield on the star (with deep eye contact) if there was a chance to have ODB and Dez bookending the offense. You wouldnt need a fucking line!
But keep telling yourself that you wouldnt do the deal. And keep reading those headlines that Dallas is the team to beat in the East. Meanwhile we cant wait to shart on your Cheerios.
Fucking Dallass fans.
RE: Since we don't have cheerleaders, we would have to
Here are several reasons why including some that haven't been noted.
JR won't because:
1) The marketing value of Beckham. He's already the most marketable player in the league, with maybe the exception of Brady, but OBJ has achieved that status with losing teams! Take the Lombardi trophys away from Brady and their marketing value isn't even close.
2) The real "above average replacement player" value of OBJ is enormous; just look how Eli and the Giants floundered vs Minny last year.
3) We know what Beckham has done his first 2 years only. Look up the top single season stats of WRs in NFL history. Listed by total yards alone OBJ hasn't cracked the top 50 yet. But also look at the age of all the guys in the top 20. Only 2 of them, Isaac Bruce and Josh Gordon were as young as OBJ was last year. 17/20 were 25 or older at the start of the season, which OBJ won't be until 2018. No one is on that top 20 list more than twice yet, Jerry Rice isn't even on it twice! We really don't know yet what OBJ's upside is yet.
Why JJ won't make the trade.
1) Romo's best season was 2014 when the Cowboys featured an amazing rushing offense. He's be foolish to risk losing that, especially in light of maximizing the value of Elliot.
2) They have Dez Bryant already.
3) They must keep Romo healthy to suceed.
Beckham/Martin are cheap which greatly increases their value. T Smith is a top 3 LT in the NFL today, but is also paid like one, which hurts his value.
With that in mind, I wouldn't even trade Beckham for Watt or Von Miller. Beckham provides far more value as an elite WR still on a rookie deal.
Khalil Mack/Aaron Donald would be another story though. I'd think long and hard about dealing him for one of them.
In 2017 and 2018 Smith's cap number is 15,800,000 which is top dollar, but after that the contract is very cap friendly for a top LT. Over the course of the 10 year contract it is cheap for a top LT. Smith needs a better agent.
This trade question has been posed from a NY point of view, but Dallas is the wrong team for a trade. Dallas has Bryant, there is no need for a WR. The trade should have been posed with a team that needs a WR that has position players NY needs in return.
Smith's agent knew what he was doing. He has huge base salaries going forward which all but ensures his deal will be restructured, especially with 7 years left after 2016 since you can spread the restructure over 5 years. It's more likely that his contract is restructured again next offseason than it is he plays for a $15.8M cap hit. The restructure will likely be similar to this years and cut his 2017 base to $1M (from $10M), thus saving $7.2M against the 2017 cap, but adding $1.8M to his cap hits in 2018-2021.
Fine strategy for the Cowboys while he remains a top LT, but it'll be ugly for 1-2 years if/when he ages/gets injured. Hopefully for the Cowboys, that happens at the same time Romo ages so they can just blow it all up in 1-2 offseasons rather than spreading the pain over 3-4+ years.
Age is a factor for me. Smith and Martin will be 26 this year. Beckham will be 24. Who knows which ones stay healthy or don't fade.
With those two the Giants offensive line could have Jerry, Hart, and Newhouse on the bench with a dominant front 5. The problem is the pass catchers and running backs would need to rely on that line excessively in order to get open and run the ball with any effectiveness.
Beckham can mask a lot of OL issues because you just need to find ways to get the ball in his hands, he can do the rest.
I wouldn't do it.
Beckham for Von Miller and Demaryius Thomas is a trade I would do. Beckham for Bryant and Tyron Smith I would do. That's mostly because the Giants likely have a 3 year window left with Eli, maybe more.
Why would Denver or Dallas trade Thomas or Bryant plus another player for a WR they already have?
Next you will have Pittsburgh trading Brown and Bell for Beckham.
They wouldn't...
Dallas wouldn't trade Zach Martin and Tyron smith for Beckham either.
Next you will have to google hypothetical situations.
The actual conversation was "QBs make WRs". WRs values are linked to the QB throwing them the ball. An elite QB will make the WRs stats much better then an average QB who will not be able to get the same production, no matter how great the WR is.
The thread then devolves into how great Beckham is and how you could only trade him if the other team gave up the equivalent of Beckham and much more. Totally unrealistic hypothetical situations, not adding anything to the conversation.
Beckham and any top WR is only as good as the QB getting them the ball. There are many really good WRs in the NFL, but WR is a position that a team would not have a hard time finding one. The trade value of a top WR is not as great as most believe because there are so many of them.
Most know I'm a Dallas fan, have been for 48 years. When you look at the team history you will see that Dallas has had a top WR 99% of the time I've been a fan. As great as many of you think Beckham is, once he is gone NY will have the next top WR in place. It's the nature of the beast.
No offense, but your response was neglectful and Im glad you said you were a Dallas fan otherwise I would have called you stupid.
Your quarterback cant stay on the field and ODB's catch to TD ratio is unlike we have ever seen....from all of your "top wide receivers". In fact, Beckham broke your bell cow receiver's record for consecutive 90 yard receiving games IN HIS ROOKIE SEASON!
Beckham was the focus of attn of the entire league last year and one of two offensive mismatches (I guess Shane Vereen) and STILL eclipsed his rookie year by 150 yards and a td.
Your vaunted O line looked above average at best because you owned the run game but couldnt keep your qb upright....again. Fact is, Beckham would prob be a better fit for Dallas because of his elusiveness to get into space when Romo scrambled. And Tyrion Smith isnt exactly Walter Jones...he got sonned by Olivier Vernon and JPP has had a pretty decent showing against him too.
Considering you still have Collins, I think you're full of shit. I think Jones would actually blow Reese at midfield on the star (with deep eye contact) if there was a chance to have ODB and Dez bookending the offense. You wouldnt need a fucking line!
But keep telling yourself that you wouldnt do the deal. And keep reading those headlines that Dallas is the team to beat in the East. Meanwhile we cant wait to shart on your Cheerios.
Fucking Dallass fans.
I love it. The response is all about me being a Dallas fan and nothing to do with "QBs make Wrs".
You know what would be interesting, if in week 1 Manning goes down for the season and Nassib is now the QB for the year. I will bet that Beckham's production will fall from what everyone is projecting for this year, "all world", best WR in the NFL. Guaranteed. As great as you may believe Beckham is, he is only as good as the QB throwing the ball. That goes for every WR in the NFL.
As far as Smith, it's stunning how many believe that one bad game versus Olivier and that's what is going to happen every time. JPP has had some success, but look at the most recent comebacks by Dallas against NY. When the games were decided, Smith stoned JPP and whoever was rushing.
This isn't Madden, Dallas has Bryant and doesn't need Beckham. The Dallas offense will be top 5 this year. The key will be Romo playing 16 games, not getting another WR. The NFL is about the QB, not the WR, no matter how great they all are.
Dallas is only the favorite if Romo stays healthy. You notice that no one has ever said that Dallas would be the favorite only if Bryant stays healthy. That should tell you something.
Has never once said anything negative about the Cowboys. It's all Pom poems with this guy. Dallas is the best at everything. He only shows up here to "set is staight" if we dare question anything about his beloved scum fuck of a team. It's sickening. Then he bitches that he's being abused. If the assclown would come here to have some level headed, unbiased dialogue, perhaps he wouldn't be getting called out. It would be refreshing for him to actually give us some info while leaving his Dallas colored glasses off, but he's proven that's impossible. You notice he keeps saying "if Beckham were as good as yours think" . Ummmm, wtf? Giants fans are the only ones that think that Beckham is any good? Seriously? Unbelievable.
You couldn't point Dallas out on a map if we put you within 50 miles, just like every other fake ass Cowboys fan not from Dallas. Hell, most of them that ARE from Dallas prolly couldn't either.
I guarantee you, that if Eli went down for as many games as Romo did, the Giants sure as hell would win more than ONE game, like Dallas did without Romo. I'd sure hate to see it, but if it were to happen, and Nassib had to play as many games as Dallas did without Romo, I'd make any wager you wanted that the Giants would win more than one freaking game. It's laughable that so many people continue to claim that Dallas is so talented after last years debacle. Many, many teams have lost their QB and managed to win a couple games. Dallas, with all that incredible talent, couldn't do it. And this is with veteran QBs that have actually won some games in this league. Absolutely comical.
Has never once said anything negative about the Cowboys. It's all Pom poems with this guy. Dallas is the best at everything. He only shows up here to "set is staight" if we dare question anything about his beloved scum fuck of a team. It's sickening. Then he bitches that he's being abused. If the assclown would come here to have some level headed, unbiased dialogue, perhaps he wouldn't be getting called out. It would be refreshing for him to actually give us some info while leaving his Dallas colored glasses off, but he's proven that's impossible. You notice he keeps saying "if Beckham were as good as yours think" . Ummmm, wtf? Giants fans are the only ones that think that Beckham is any good? Seriously? Unbelievable.
You couldn't point Dallas out on a map if we put you within 50 miles, just like every other fake ass Cowboys fan not from Dallas. Hell, most of them that ARE from Dallas prolly couldn't either.
He is a clown. Its amazing how everyone on dallas is so good yet they are one biased officiated game to only have 1 playoff win in 10 plus years Romo has started.
I guarantee you, that if Eli went down for as many games as Romo did, the Giants sure as hell would win more than ONE game, like Dallas did without Romo. I'd sure hate to see it, but if it were to happen, and Nassib had to play as many games as Dallas did without Romo, I'd make any wager you wanted that the Giants would win more than one freaking game. It's laughable that so many people continue to claim that Dallas is so talented after last years debacle. Many, many teams have lost their QB and managed to win a couple games. Dallas, with all that incredible talent, couldn't do it. And this is with veteran QBs that have actually won some games in this league. Absolutely comical.
It's not about if NY will win a game without Manning. It's about will Beckham production be the same if Manning is not the QB.
I question that any WR would still have the same production if they lose their QB.
It seems that most posters believe that Beckham would produce no matter who the QB is.
But how's that different than asking if the OL will look the same with shitty RBs and shitty QB play? It's a ridiculous question. Nobody would have the same production playing with backups. Your vaunted OL has found a way to get your franchise QB absolutely destroyed, why do you not criticize them for that? An OL needs all 5 guys to play as one. Two OL alone don't mean shit. You can have great OL with 5 average joes, playing as one well oiled machine. It's easier to make a very good OL out of an ordinary talent than it is to make a very good WR out of ordinary talent.
Age is a factor for me. Smith and Martin will be 26 this year. Beckham will be 24. Who knows which ones stay healthy or don't fade.
With those two the Giants offensive line could have Jerry, Hart, and Newhouse on the bench with a dominant front 5. The problem is the pass catchers and running backs would need to rely on that line excessively in order to get open and run the ball with any effectiveness.
Beckham can mask a lot of OL issues because you just need to find ways to get the ball in his hands, he can do the rest.
I wouldn't do it.
Beckham for Von Miller and Demaryius Thomas is a trade I would do. Beckham for Bryant and Tyron Smith I would do. That's mostly because the Giants likely have a 3 year window left with Eli, maybe more.
Why would Denver or Dallas trade Thomas or Bryant plus another player for a WR they already have?
Next you will have Pittsburgh trading Brown and Bell for Beckham.
They wouldn't...
Dallas wouldn't trade Zach Martin and Tyron smith for Beckham either.
Next you will have to google hypothetical situations.
The actual conversation was "QBs make WRs". WRs values are linked to the QB throwing them the ball. An elite QB will make the WRs stats much better then an average QB who will not be able to get the same production, no matter how great the WR is.
The thread then devolves into how great Beckham is and how you could only trade him if the other team gave up the equivalent of Beckham and much more. Totally unrealistic hypothetical situations, not adding anything to the conversation.
Beckham and any top WR is only as good as the QB getting them the ball. There are many really good WRs in the NFL, but WR is a position that a team would not have a hard time finding one. The trade value of a top WR is not as great as most believe because there are so many of them.
Most know I'm a Dallas fan, have been for 48 years. When you look at the team history you will see that Dallas has had a top WR 99% of the time I've been a fan. As great as many of you think Beckham is, once he is gone NY will have the next top WR in place. It's the nature of the beast.
No offense, but your response was neglectful and Im glad you said you were a Dallas fan otherwise I would have called you stupid.
Your quarterback cant stay on the field and ODB's catch to TD ratio is unlike we have ever seen....from all of your "top wide receivers". In fact, Beckham broke your bell cow receiver's record for consecutive 90 yard receiving games IN HIS ROOKIE SEASON!
Beckham was the focus of attn of the entire league last year and one of two offensive mismatches (I guess Shane Vereen) and STILL eclipsed his rookie year by 150 yards and a td.
Your vaunted O line looked above average at best because you owned the run game but couldnt keep your qb upright....again. Fact is, Beckham would prob be a better fit for Dallas because of his elusiveness to get into space when Romo scrambled. And Tyrion Smith isnt exactly Walter Jones...he got sonned by Olivier Vernon and JPP has had a pretty decent showing against him too.
Considering you still have Collins, I think you're full of shit. I think Jones would actually blow Reese at midfield on the star (with deep eye contact) if there was a chance to have ODB and Dez bookending the offense. You wouldnt need a fucking line!
But keep telling yourself that you wouldnt do the deal. And keep reading those headlines that Dallas is the team to beat in the East. Meanwhile we cant wait to shart on your Cheerios.
Fucking Dallass fans.
I love it. The response is all about me being a Dallas fan and nothing to do with "QBs make Wrs".
You know what would be interesting, if in week 1 Manning goes down for the season and Nassib is now the QB for the year. I will bet that Beckham's production will fall from what everyone is projecting for this year, "all world", best WR in the NFL. Guaranteed. As great as you may believe Beckham is, he is only as good as the QB throwing the ball. That goes for every WR in the NFL.
As far as Smith, it's stunning how many believe that one bad game versus Olivier and that's what is going to happen every time. JPP has had some success, but look at the most recent comebacks by Dallas against NY. When the games were decided, Smith stoned JPP and whoever was rushing.
This isn't Madden, Dallas has Bryant and doesn't need Beckham. The Dallas offense will be top 5 this year. The key will be Romo playing 16 games, not getting another WR. The NFL is about the QB, not the WR, no matter how great they all are.
Dallas is only the favorite if Romo stays healthy. You notice that no one has ever said that Dallas would be the favorite only if Bryant stays healthy. That should tell you something.
On paper, barring injury, Dallas has a top 5 offense for sure. And yes, it is all contingent on Romo staying healthy. I think the Dallas offense will be built around the run game and mass protection of Romo this year. Bryant deep. TE Witten is now a blocking TE and one of the league's best even at his age.
However, Dallas's defense isn't very good so we will score on them opening day. The key for us game one is to run the ball well and not turn it over. When in the redzone we must score TD's. I also think that game 1 is an opportunty to go deep and Mannning is superb at that.
I think both offenses are obviously superb if healthy. Our defense should be better and our specials too. So whoever wins the turnover battle may in fact win the game. That is often the case.
It's a guard's league, and it's much easier to find a guard in the NBA.
That's the wrong comparison because I would not trade my franchise QB. Curry would be a franchise QB, not a WR. Klay Thompson would be a WR, and yes, I would trade him.
I cringe to think how many games they would have won. Not very many, I'll tell you that. He almost as important as Eli is. That's the difference in a game changing WR and very good OLinemen. Linemen can be replaced much easier than a guy like Beckham can. He's literally irreplaceable in this offense.
It's a guard's league, and it's much easier to find a guard in the NBA.
That's the wrong comparison because I would not trade my franchise QB. Curry would be a franchise QB, not a WR. Klay Thompson would be a WR, and yes, I would trade him.
But PG's are so prevalent, there should be little dropoff if you switched out Steph for someone like James Harden.
I cringe to think how many games they would have won. Not very many, I'll tell you that. He almost as important as Eli is. That's the difference in a game changing WR and very good OLinemen. Linemen can be replaced much easier than a guy like Beckham can. He's literally irreplaceable in this offense.
If OBJ had missed 2015, we win 2 games. I mean that. He demands double teams and opens things up for others.
It's a guard's league, and it's much easier to find a guard in the NBA.
That's the wrong comparison because I would not trade my franchise QB. Curry would be a franchise QB, not a WR. Klay Thompson would be a WR, and yes, I would trade him.
But PG's are so prevalent, there should be little dropoff if you switched out Steph for someone like James Harden.
It's a guard's league, and it's much easier to find a guard in the NBA.
That's the wrong comparison because I would not trade my franchise QB. Curry would be a franchise QB, not a WR. Klay Thompson would be a WR, and yes, I would trade him.
But PG's are so prevalent, there should be little dropoff if you switched out Steph for someone like James Harden.
Harden would be one of their better defenders :)
Curry, 2 time league MVP = Franchise QB
Harden, good player, = top WR
Harden has been traded once already and I would bet he gets traded again before Curry ever gets traded.
This is apples and orange argument. Stick to the NFL.
how does a team with one of the best OL for the last dozen years, a HOF TE, WRs like TO and Dez, one of the greatest LBs ever. And other Pro Bowlers win only 2 playoff games, one of the handed to them by officials?
Arent teams like this suppose to be annual NFC title games/SB participants?
how does a team with one of the best OL for the last dozen years, a HOF TE, WRs like TO and Dez, one of the greatest LBs ever. And other Pro Bowlers win only 2 playoff games, one of the handed to them by officials?
Arent teams like this suppose to be annual NFC title games/SB participants?
Overall, Dallas has been a disappointment since there last "Jimmy Johnson personnel" team. Jerry Jones is a disaster and I love it!
I love it. The response is all about me being a Dallas fan and nothing to do with "QBs make Wrs".
Ummm, nobody responded to that because, at least if you read the article that was provided as "proof" of the hypothesis, it was unabashedly awful. There was really ZERO NEED to reply to it.
And in any case it was replied to early by people writing in various ways, what I just wrote. It's one of the dumbest "football articles" ever written, courtesy of the internet...
You know what would be interesting, if in week 1 Manning goes down for the season and Nassib is now the QB for the year. I will bet that Beckham's production will fall from what everyone is projecting for this year, "all world", best WR in the NFL. Guaranteed. As great as you may believe Beckham is, he is only as good as the QB throwing the ball. That goes for every WR in the NFL.
No doubt Beckham's production would suffer some with Nassib at QB instead of Manning, but the best WRs still produce no matter who's at QB. Look at what Hopkins did last year despite absolute trash throwing him the ball: 111 rec, 1521 yds, 11 TDs.
Mega-Ditka, yes. Mini-Ditka, no.
With that in mind, I wouldn't even trade Beckham for Watt or Von Miller. Beckham provides far more value as an elite WR still on a rookie deal.
Khalil Mack/Aaron Donald would be another story though. I'd think long and hard about dealing him for one of them.
I wouldn't think twice.
You don't need a super star WR to win it all.
You need a damn good OLine to do so.
If you're throwing in a couple of first round and second round picks, then maybe. Otherwise NO
That not really true. The Giants had a good oline in 1994 and 1995 and the offense was still dreadful.
More often than not NFL titles are won on the backs of impact players. You can win NFL titles with average olines and its happened numerous times over the last ten years. How many Super Bowls were won by teams with average Wrs? Maybe one.
With that in mind, I wouldn't even trade Beckham for Watt or Von Miller. Beckham provides far more value as an elite WR still on a rookie deal.
Khalil Mack/Aaron Donald would be another story though. I'd think long and hard about dealing him for one of them.
In 2017 and 2018 Smith's cap number is 15,800,000 which is top dollar, but after that the contract is very cap friendly for a top LT. Over the course of the 10 year contract it is cheap for a top LT. Smith needs a better agent.
This trade question has been posed from a NY point of view, but Dallas is the wrong team for a trade. Dallas has Bryant, there is no need for a WR. The trade should have been posed with a team that needs a WR that has position players NY needs in return.
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We suck out loud WITH OBJ. How can it get worse? A good o line can mask average skill players.
That not really true. The Giants had a good oline in 1994 and 1995 and the offense was still dreadful.
More often than not NFL titles are won on the backs of impact players. You can win NFL titles with average olines and its happened numerous times over the last ten years. How many Super Bowls were won by teams with average Wrs? Maybe one.
we lost to one of them :(
Still surprised how many fans struggle to grasp this, but the Giants sucked the past 2 years bc of our defense. Our offense was one of the better units in the league despite the so-so line.
We were 8th overall in offense last year and 32nd in defense. That's why we spent our FA money and draft picks there
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who have won titles with mediocre OL's is pretty long. But you won't find many titles without either an elite QB or an elite WR. Luckily, we have both.
we lost to one of them :(
This and 86 and 90 teams won without elite qb and/wr's
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In comment 13035742 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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who have won titles with mediocre OL's is pretty long. But you won't find many titles without either an elite QB or an elite WR. Luckily, we have both.
we lost to one of them :(
This and 86 and 90 teams won without elite qb and/wr's
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I truly believe OBJ is the best way fens I've player I've ever seen. He and Eli will win a fee
I really want to understand what this says but I can't. It's frustrating really.
It was supposed to say OBJ is the best offensive player I've ever seen. He and Eli will win a few games a year by themselves. Two OL won't make them a better team without OBJ.
With those two the Giants offensive line could have Jerry, Hart, and Newhouse on the bench with a dominant front 5. The problem is the pass catchers and running backs would need to rely on that line excessively in order to get open and run the ball with any effectiveness.
Beckham can mask a lot of OL issues because you just need to find ways to get the ball in his hands, he can do the rest.
I wouldn't do it.
Beckham for Von Miller and Demaryius Thomas is a trade I would do. Beckham for Bryant and Tyron Smith I would do. That's mostly because the Giants likely have a 3 year window left with Eli, maybe more.
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In comment 13035742 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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who have won titles with mediocre OL's is pretty long. But you won't find many titles without either an elite QB or an elite WR. Luckily, we have both.
we lost to one of them :(
This and 86 and 90 teams won without elite qb and/wr's
Hoss and Simms were anything but average and I wasn't talking about the NFL from 25 years ago. I was talking the last 10-15 years. It's a different league now. Over the last ten years how many mediocre olines were part of a super bowl winning team? I can think of at least 5. How many average QB/WR tandems won in that same time frame? Maybe one.
With those two the Giants offensive line could have Jerry, Hart, and Newhouse on the bench with a dominant front 5. The problem is the pass catchers and running backs would need to rely on that line excessively in order to get open and run the ball with any effectiveness.
Beckham can mask a lot of OL issues because you just need to find ways to get the ball in his hands, he can do the rest.
I wouldn't do it.
Beckham for Von Miller and Demaryius Thomas is a trade I would do. Beckham for Bryant and Tyron Smith I would do. That's mostly because the Giants likely have a 3 year window left with Eli, maybe more.
Why would Denver or Dallas trade Thomas or Bryant plus another player for a WR they already have?
Next you will have Pittsburgh trading Brown and Bell for Beckham.
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Age is a factor for me. Smith and Martin will be 26 this year. Beckham will be 24. Who knows which ones stay healthy or don't fade.
With those two the Giants offensive line could have Jerry, Hart, and Newhouse on the bench with a dominant front 5. The problem is the pass catchers and running backs would need to rely on that line excessively in order to get open and run the ball with any effectiveness.
Beckham can mask a lot of OL issues because you just need to find ways to get the ball in his hands, he can do the rest.
I wouldn't do it.
Beckham for Von Miller and Demaryius Thomas is a trade I would do. Beckham for Bryant and Tyron Smith I would do. That's mostly because the Giants likely have a 3 year window left with Eli, maybe more.
Why would Denver or Dallas trade Thomas or Bryant plus another player for a WR they already have?
Next you will have Pittsburgh trading Brown and Bell for Beckham.
They wouldn't...
Dallas wouldn't trade Zach Martin and Tyron smith for Beckham either.
Next you will have to google hypothetical situations.
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In comment 13036348 Patrick77 said:
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Age is a factor for me. Smith and Martin will be 26 this year. Beckham will be 24. Who knows which ones stay healthy or don't fade.
With those two the Giants offensive line could have Jerry, Hart, and Newhouse on the bench with a dominant front 5. The problem is the pass catchers and running backs would need to rely on that line excessively in order to get open and run the ball with any effectiveness.
Beckham can mask a lot of OL issues because you just need to find ways to get the ball in his hands, he can do the rest.
I wouldn't do it.
Beckham for Von Miller and Demaryius Thomas is a trade I would do. Beckham for Bryant and Tyron Smith I would do. That's mostly because the Giants likely have a 3 year window left with Eli, maybe more.
Why would Denver or Dallas trade Thomas or Bryant plus another player for a WR they already have?
Next you will have Pittsburgh trading Brown and Bell for Beckham.
They wouldn't...
Dallas wouldn't trade Zach Martin and Tyron smith for Beckham either.
Next you will have to google hypothetical situations.
The actual conversation was "QBs make WRs". WRs values are linked to the QB throwing them the ball. An elite QB will make the WRs stats much better then an average QB who will not be able to get the same production, no matter how great the WR is.
The thread then devolves into how great Beckham is and how you could only trade him if the other team gave up the equivalent of Beckham and much more. Totally unrealistic hypothetical situations, not adding anything to the conversation.
Beckham and any top WR is only as good as the QB getting them the ball. There are many really good WRs in the NFL, but WR is a position that a team would not have a hard time finding one. The trade value of a top WR is not as great as most believe because there are so many of them.
Most know I'm a Dallas fan, have been for 48 years. When you look at the team history you will see that Dallas has had a top WR 99% of the time I've been a fan. As great as many of you think Beckham is, once he is gone NY will have the next top WR in place. It's the nature of the beast.
Great players show greatness regardless of the QB.
Calvin Johnson
Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Larry Fitzgerald
Andre Johnson
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In comment 13037225 fanatic II said:
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In comment 13036348 Patrick77 said:
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Age is a factor for me. Smith and Martin will be 26 this year. Beckham will be 24. Who knows which ones stay healthy or don't fade.
With those two the Giants offensive line could have Jerry, Hart, and Newhouse on the bench with a dominant front 5. The problem is the pass catchers and running backs would need to rely on that line excessively in order to get open and run the ball with any effectiveness.
Beckham can mask a lot of OL issues because you just need to find ways to get the ball in his hands, he can do the rest.
I wouldn't do it.
Beckham for Von Miller and Demaryius Thomas is a trade I would do. Beckham for Bryant and Tyron Smith I would do. That's mostly because the Giants likely have a 3 year window left with Eli, maybe more.
Why would Denver or Dallas trade Thomas or Bryant plus another player for a WR they already have?
Next you will have Pittsburgh trading Brown and Bell for Beckham.
They wouldn't...
Dallas wouldn't trade Zach Martin and Tyron smith for Beckham either.
Next you will have to google hypothetical situations.
The actual conversation was "QBs make WRs". WRs values are linked to the QB throwing them the ball. An elite QB will make the WRs stats much better then an average QB who will not be able to get the same production, no matter how great the WR is.
The thread then devolves into how great Beckham is and how you could only trade him if the other team gave up the equivalent of Beckham and much more. Totally unrealistic hypothetical situations, not adding anything to the conversation.
Beckham and any top WR is only as good as the QB getting them the ball. There are many really good WRs in the NFL, but WR is a position that a team would not have a hard time finding one. The trade value of a top WR is not as great as most believe because there are so many of them.
Most know I'm a Dallas fan, have been for 48 years. When you look at the team history you will see that Dallas has had a top WR 99% of the time I've been a fan. As great as many of you think Beckham is, once he is gone NY will have the next top WR in place. It's the nature of the beast.
No offense, but your response was neglectful and Im glad you said you were a Dallas fan otherwise I would have called you stupid.
Your quarterback cant stay on the field and ODB's catch to TD ratio is unlike we have ever seen....from all of your "top wide receivers". In fact, Beckham broke your bell cow receiver's record for consecutive 90 yard receiving games IN HIS ROOKIE SEASON!
Beckham was the focus of attn of the entire league last year and one of two offensive mismatches (I guess Shane Vereen) and STILL eclipsed his rookie year by 150 yards and a td.
Your vaunted O line looked above average at best because you owned the run game but couldnt keep your qb upright....again. Fact is, Beckham would prob be a better fit for Dallas because of his elusiveness to get into space when Romo scrambled. And Tyrion Smith isnt exactly Walter Jones...he got sonned by Olivier Vernon and JPP has had a pretty decent showing against him too.
Considering you still have Collins, I think you're full of shit. I think Jones would actually blow Reese at midfield on the star (with deep eye contact) if there was a chance to have ODB and Dez bookending the offense. You wouldnt need a fucking line!
But keep telling yourself that you wouldnt do the deal. And keep reading those headlines that Dallas is the team to beat in the East. Meanwhile we cant wait to shart on your Cheerios.
Fucking Dallass fans.
Us not having cheerleaders was the whole point, Einstein!
JR won't because:
1) The marketing value of Beckham. He's already the most marketable player in the league, with maybe the exception of Brady, but OBJ has achieved that status with losing teams! Take the Lombardi trophys away from Brady and their marketing value isn't even close.
2) The real "above average replacement player" value of OBJ is enormous; just look how Eli and the Giants floundered vs Minny last year.
3) We know what Beckham has done his first 2 years only. Look up the top single season stats of WRs in NFL history. Listed by total yards alone OBJ hasn't cracked the top 50 yet. But also look at the age of all the guys in the top 20. Only 2 of them, Isaac Bruce and Josh Gordon were as young as OBJ was last year. 17/20 were 25 or older at the start of the season, which OBJ won't be until 2018. No one is on that top 20 list more than twice yet, Jerry Rice isn't even on it twice! We really don't know yet what OBJ's upside is yet.
Why JJ won't make the trade.
1) Romo's best season was 2014 when the Cowboys featured an amazing rushing offense. He's be foolish to risk losing that, especially in light of maximizing the value of Elliot.
2) They have Dez Bryant already.
3) They must keep Romo healthy to suceed.
A) Would you want the Boys to trade Smith and Martin for OBJ?
B) Would you make the trade if Dez Bryant wasn't a Cowboy?
I would make the trade because of the certainty factor - having those two has less uncertainty about the offense's talent level.
OBJ has more uncertainty. One guy. One injury. One more Panther game suspension. Turns the offense into a big problem
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Beckham/Martin are cheap which greatly increases their value. T Smith is a top 3 LT in the NFL today, but is also paid like one, which hurts his value.
With that in mind, I wouldn't even trade Beckham for Watt or Von Miller. Beckham provides far more value as an elite WR still on a rookie deal.
Khalil Mack/Aaron Donald would be another story though. I'd think long and hard about dealing him for one of them.
In 2017 and 2018 Smith's cap number is 15,800,000 which is top dollar, but after that the contract is very cap friendly for a top LT. Over the course of the 10 year contract it is cheap for a top LT. Smith needs a better agent.
This trade question has been posed from a NY point of view, but Dallas is the wrong team for a trade. Dallas has Bryant, there is no need for a WR. The trade should have been posed with a team that needs a WR that has position players NY needs in return.
Smith's agent knew what he was doing. He has huge base salaries going forward which all but ensures his deal will be restructured, especially with 7 years left after 2016 since you can spread the restructure over 5 years. It's more likely that his contract is restructured again next offseason than it is he plays for a $15.8M cap hit. The restructure will likely be similar to this years and cut his 2017 base to $1M (from $10M), thus saving $7.2M against the 2017 cap, but adding $1.8M to his cap hits in 2018-2021.
Fine strategy for the Cowboys while he remains a top LT, but it'll be ugly for 1-2 years if/when he ages/gets injured. Hopefully for the Cowboys, that happens at the same time Romo ages so they can just blow it all up in 1-2 offseasons rather than spreading the pain over 3-4+ years.
The only possible OBJ trade would be for a franchise QB. That's it.
No explanation needed.
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In comment 13037230 Patrick77 said:
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In comment 13037225 fanatic II said:
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In comment 13036348 Patrick77 said:
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Age is a factor for me. Smith and Martin will be 26 this year. Beckham will be 24. Who knows which ones stay healthy or don't fade.
With those two the Giants offensive line could have Jerry, Hart, and Newhouse on the bench with a dominant front 5. The problem is the pass catchers and running backs would need to rely on that line excessively in order to get open and run the ball with any effectiveness.
Beckham can mask a lot of OL issues because you just need to find ways to get the ball in his hands, he can do the rest.
I wouldn't do it.
Beckham for Von Miller and Demaryius Thomas is a trade I would do. Beckham for Bryant and Tyron Smith I would do. That's mostly because the Giants likely have a 3 year window left with Eli, maybe more.
Why would Denver or Dallas trade Thomas or Bryant plus another player for a WR they already have?
Next you will have Pittsburgh trading Brown and Bell for Beckham.
They wouldn't...
Dallas wouldn't trade Zach Martin and Tyron smith for Beckham either.
Next you will have to google hypothetical situations.
The actual conversation was "QBs make WRs". WRs values are linked to the QB throwing them the ball. An elite QB will make the WRs stats much better then an average QB who will not be able to get the same production, no matter how great the WR is.
The thread then devolves into how great Beckham is and how you could only trade him if the other team gave up the equivalent of Beckham and much more. Totally unrealistic hypothetical situations, not adding anything to the conversation.
Beckham and any top WR is only as good as the QB getting them the ball. There are many really good WRs in the NFL, but WR is a position that a team would not have a hard time finding one. The trade value of a top WR is not as great as most believe because there are so many of them.
Most know I'm a Dallas fan, have been for 48 years. When you look at the team history you will see that Dallas has had a top WR 99% of the time I've been a fan. As great as many of you think Beckham is, once he is gone NY will have the next top WR in place. It's the nature of the beast.
No offense, but your response was neglectful and Im glad you said you were a Dallas fan otherwise I would have called you stupid.
Your quarterback cant stay on the field and ODB's catch to TD ratio is unlike we have ever seen....from all of your "top wide receivers". In fact, Beckham broke your bell cow receiver's record for consecutive 90 yard receiving games IN HIS ROOKIE SEASON!
Beckham was the focus of attn of the entire league last year and one of two offensive mismatches (I guess Shane Vereen) and STILL eclipsed his rookie year by 150 yards and a td.
Your vaunted O line looked above average at best because you owned the run game but couldnt keep your qb upright....again. Fact is, Beckham would prob be a better fit for Dallas because of his elusiveness to get into space when Romo scrambled. And Tyrion Smith isnt exactly Walter Jones...he got sonned by Olivier Vernon and JPP has had a pretty decent showing against him too.
Considering you still have Collins, I think you're full of shit. I think Jones would actually blow Reese at midfield on the star (with deep eye contact) if there was a chance to have ODB and Dez bookending the offense. You wouldnt need a fucking line!
But keep telling yourself that you wouldnt do the deal. And keep reading those headlines that Dallas is the team to beat in the East. Meanwhile we cant wait to shart on your Cheerios.
Fucking Dallass fans.
I love it. The response is all about me being a Dallas fan and nothing to do with "QBs make Wrs".
You know what would be interesting, if in week 1 Manning goes down for the season and Nassib is now the QB for the year. I will bet that Beckham's production will fall from what everyone is projecting for this year, "all world", best WR in the NFL. Guaranteed. As great as you may believe Beckham is, he is only as good as the QB throwing the ball. That goes for every WR in the NFL.
As far as Smith, it's stunning how many believe that one bad game versus Olivier and that's what is going to happen every time. JPP has had some success, but look at the most recent comebacks by Dallas against NY. When the games were decided, Smith stoned JPP and whoever was rushing.
This isn't Madden, Dallas has Bryant and doesn't need Beckham. The Dallas offense will be top 5 this year. The key will be Romo playing 16 games, not getting another WR. The NFL is about the QB, not the WR, no matter how great they all are.
Dallas is only the favorite if Romo stays healthy. You notice that no one has ever said that Dallas would be the favorite only if Bryant stays healthy. That should tell you something.
You couldn't point Dallas out on a map if we put you within 50 miles, just like every other fake ass Cowboys fan not from Dallas. Hell, most of them that ARE from Dallas prolly couldn't either.
But no...
You couldn't point Dallas out on a map if we put you within 50 miles, just like every other fake ass Cowboys fan not from Dallas. Hell, most of them that ARE from Dallas prolly couldn't either.
He is a clown. Its amazing how everyone on dallas is so good yet they are one biased officiated game to only have 1 playoff win in 10 plus years Romo has started.
It's not about if NY will win a game without Manning. It's about will Beckham production be the same if Manning is not the QB.
I question that any WR would still have the same production if they lose their QB.
It seems that most posters believe that Beckham would produce no matter who the QB is.
In this case the "WR is making the QB".
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In comment 13037277 fanatic II said:
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In comment 13037230 Patrick77 said:
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In comment 13037225 fanatic II said:
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In comment 13036348 Patrick77 said:
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Age is a factor for me. Smith and Martin will be 26 this year. Beckham will be 24. Who knows which ones stay healthy or don't fade.
With those two the Giants offensive line could have Jerry, Hart, and Newhouse on the bench with a dominant front 5. The problem is the pass catchers and running backs would need to rely on that line excessively in order to get open and run the ball with any effectiveness.
Beckham can mask a lot of OL issues because you just need to find ways to get the ball in his hands, he can do the rest.
I wouldn't do it.
Beckham for Von Miller and Demaryius Thomas is a trade I would do. Beckham for Bryant and Tyron Smith I would do. That's mostly because the Giants likely have a 3 year window left with Eli, maybe more.
Why would Denver or Dallas trade Thomas or Bryant plus another player for a WR they already have?
Next you will have Pittsburgh trading Brown and Bell for Beckham.
They wouldn't...
Dallas wouldn't trade Zach Martin and Tyron smith for Beckham either.
Next you will have to google hypothetical situations.
The actual conversation was "QBs make WRs". WRs values are linked to the QB throwing them the ball. An elite QB will make the WRs stats much better then an average QB who will not be able to get the same production, no matter how great the WR is.
The thread then devolves into how great Beckham is and how you could only trade him if the other team gave up the equivalent of Beckham and much more. Totally unrealistic hypothetical situations, not adding anything to the conversation.
Beckham and any top WR is only as good as the QB getting them the ball. There are many really good WRs in the NFL, but WR is a position that a team would not have a hard time finding one. The trade value of a top WR is not as great as most believe because there are so many of them.
Most know I'm a Dallas fan, have been for 48 years. When you look at the team history you will see that Dallas has had a top WR 99% of the time I've been a fan. As great as many of you think Beckham is, once he is gone NY will have the next top WR in place. It's the nature of the beast.
No offense, but your response was neglectful and Im glad you said you were a Dallas fan otherwise I would have called you stupid.
Your quarterback cant stay on the field and ODB's catch to TD ratio is unlike we have ever seen....from all of your "top wide receivers". In fact, Beckham broke your bell cow receiver's record for consecutive 90 yard receiving games IN HIS ROOKIE SEASON!
Beckham was the focus of attn of the entire league last year and one of two offensive mismatches (I guess Shane Vereen) and STILL eclipsed his rookie year by 150 yards and a td.
Your vaunted O line looked above average at best because you owned the run game but couldnt keep your qb upright....again. Fact is, Beckham would prob be a better fit for Dallas because of his elusiveness to get into space when Romo scrambled. And Tyrion Smith isnt exactly Walter Jones...he got sonned by Olivier Vernon and JPP has had a pretty decent showing against him too.
Considering you still have Collins, I think you're full of shit. I think Jones would actually blow Reese at midfield on the star (with deep eye contact) if there was a chance to have ODB and Dez bookending the offense. You wouldnt need a fucking line!
But keep telling yourself that you wouldnt do the deal. And keep reading those headlines that Dallas is the team to beat in the East. Meanwhile we cant wait to shart on your Cheerios.
Fucking Dallass fans.
I love it. The response is all about me being a Dallas fan and nothing to do with "QBs make Wrs".
You know what would be interesting, if in week 1 Manning goes down for the season and Nassib is now the QB for the year. I will bet that Beckham's production will fall from what everyone is projecting for this year, "all world", best WR in the NFL. Guaranteed. As great as you may believe Beckham is, he is only as good as the QB throwing the ball. That goes for every WR in the NFL.
As far as Smith, it's stunning how many believe that one bad game versus Olivier and that's what is going to happen every time. JPP has had some success, but look at the most recent comebacks by Dallas against NY. When the games were decided, Smith stoned JPP and whoever was rushing.
This isn't Madden, Dallas has Bryant and doesn't need Beckham. The Dallas offense will be top 5 this year. The key will be Romo playing 16 games, not getting another WR. The NFL is about the QB, not the WR, no matter how great they all are.
Dallas is only the favorite if Romo stays healthy. You notice that no one has ever said that Dallas would be the favorite only if Bryant stays healthy. That should tell you something.
However, Dallas's defense isn't very good so we will score on them opening day. The key for us game one is to run the ball well and not turn it over. When in the redzone we must score TD's. I also think that game 1 is an opportunty to go deep and Mannning is superb at that.
I think both offenses are obviously superb if healthy. Our defense should be better and our specials too. So whoever wins the turnover battle may in fact win the game. That is often the case.
That's the wrong comparison because I would not trade my franchise QB. Curry would be a franchise QB, not a WR. Klay Thompson would be a WR, and yes, I would trade him.
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It's a guard's league, and it's much easier to find a guard in the NBA.
That's the wrong comparison because I would not trade my franchise QB. Curry would be a franchise QB, not a WR. Klay Thompson would be a WR, and yes, I would trade him.
But PG's are so prevalent, there should be little dropoff if you switched out Steph for someone like James Harden.
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In comment 13038627 David in LA said:
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It's a guard's league, and it's much easier to find a guard in the NBA.
That's the wrong comparison because I would not trade my franchise QB. Curry would be a franchise QB, not a WR. Klay Thompson would be a WR, and yes, I would trade him.
But PG's are so prevalent, there should be little dropoff if you switched out Steph for someone like James Harden.
Harden would be one of their better defenders :)
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In comment 13038642 fanatic II said:
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In comment 13038627 David in LA said:
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It's a guard's league, and it's much easier to find a guard in the NBA.
That's the wrong comparison because I would not trade my franchise QB. Curry would be a franchise QB, not a WR. Klay Thompson would be a WR, and yes, I would trade him.
But PG's are so prevalent, there should be little dropoff if you switched out Steph for someone like James Harden.
Harden would be one of their better defenders :)
Curry, 2 time league MVP = Franchise QB
Harden, good player, = top WR
Harden has been traded once already and I would bet he gets traded again before Curry ever gets traded.
This is apples and orange argument. Stick to the NFL.
Arent teams like this suppose to be annual NFC title games/SB participants?
Arent teams like this suppose to be annual NFC title games/SB participants?
I love it. The response is all about me being a Dallas fan and nothing to do with "QBs make Wrs".
Ummm, nobody responded to that because, at least if you read the article that was provided as "proof" of the hypothesis, it was unabashedly awful. There was really ZERO NEED to reply to it.
And in any case it was replied to early by people writing in various ways, what I just wrote. It's one of the dumbest "football articles" ever written, courtesy of the internet...
No doubt Beckham's production would suffer some with Nassib at QB instead of Manning, but the best WRs still produce no matter who's at QB. Look at what Hopkins did last year despite absolute trash throwing him the ball: 111 rec, 1521 yds, 11 TDs.