Keys to this year's offense outside of Eli and OBJ

I just can't take a chance with the o-line for all the reasons you mentioned. It seems like Eli is going to have a bunch of weapons this year for the first time in a while. I'd hate for it all to go down the drain because Flowers twisted an ankle in week 2. We have to bring somebody else in still IMO, even if it's only for depth purposes.

In comment 13035340 ZGiants98 said:

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I just can't take a chance with the o-line for all the reasons you mentioned. It seems like Eli is going to have a bunch of weapons this year for the first time in a while. I'd hate for it all to go down the drain because Flowers twisted an ankle in week 2. We have to bring somebody else in still IMO, even if it's only for depth purposes.

We could definitely use a starting RT. We tried to get one in free agency but it didn't work out. I wonder if something will happen during camp in terms of a trade? If not, remember, Pugh could play LT as can Newhouse in a pinch. Hart is learning RT. You hope for the best.

A T may still be added, but Stingley may surprise and Hart has the college experience at OT. What is troublesome is the unknown, but that is when you look at position coach. Coach Solari may be the best OL technique instructor in the NFL. If the OL have talent he will get the most out of them.

His former player swear by his coaching ability, therefore the discerning mind should lean in favor of optimism. I believe he will know fairly quickly what potential they can achieve. One thing I can asure you they will be well prepared and function as a cohesive unit. Sometimes that can make all the difference.

In comment 13035359 Makogman said:

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A T may still be added, but Stingley may surprise and Hart has the college experience at OT. What is troublesome is the unknown, but that is when you look at position coach. Coach Solari may be the best OL technique instructor in the NFL. If the OL have talent he will get the most out of them. His former player swear by his coaching ability, therefore the discerning mind should lean in favor of optimism. I believe he will know fairly quickly what potential they can achieve. One thing I can asure you they will be well prepared and function as a cohesive unit. Sometimes that can make all the difference.

Everything I have read about coach Solari has been solid. If he produces as expected our OL will be much improved. I believe for example E. Flowers will run block like a man passed and his pass blocking will improve. I have a feeling Pugh will be borderline probowl and OC Richburg is already probowl in my mind. We have to hope that Jerry and Newhouse "peak" as they say and just be improved. I am telling you I think both our pass and run games will be improved. I also think we will turn it over less, especially with WR Randle gone as he ran wrong routes. Cruz won't do that. If we run the ball really well that will open the passing game up.

starting RT brought in. I just want another "Newhouse" but preferably a guy that is a vet that has logged some time at LT in his career. Who plays LT if Flowers goes down? Pugh? Newhouse? Hart? I don't like any of those options.

In comment 13035391 ZGiants98 said:

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starting RT brought in. I just want another "Newhouse" but preferably a guy that is a vet that has logged some time at LT in his career. Who plays LT if Flowers goes down? Pugh? Newhouse? Hart? I don't like any of those options.

Newhouse has played LT in his career. Pugh could play it too. Just saying there is at least some options.

is Shepard.......

And Cruz is the reason.....one, until he goes out there and can show he has the same cutting ability and quickness.....two, that, that knee can take a hit......and three, that he can play a full season......we have been let down by him, the last three seasons......to count on him is a mistake....he should be looked at as a bonus, if he indeed does play....

That's why Shepard is the #1 key to this offense.....he has to replace Randle, by game one......That is a lot of pressure to put on a rookie receiver, especially if Cruz fails or comes around slowly......

If Cruz fails, that's OBj, SS, and Harris......we need someone to step up, and be the 3rd or 4th guy.....

It seems that the Giants are prepared to go with the OL that finished the year......these 5 have played together for a year.....I think they will be better...but there is no depth......we have to hope Reese finds someone's outcast, as an upgrade to the backups we have....

It seems to be the same situation with the TE's....they are going with what they have...

We needed a RB, and we were lucky that Perkins was still on the board....but he is a rookie, and while potentially better than what we already have, he is still an unknown.....We will probably ride Jennings as long as we can, but Vereen, Darkwa, Williams, and Co. are not the answer......

This is a team, with no depth on offense or defense.....we have to avoid major injuries.......we can probably tolerate minor injuries to key players.....

If we get lucky with Cruz, if Perkins and Shepard, can work their way into the starting lineup, and if we can avoid the injury bug that has plagued us for several seasons, there is no reason this team can't take the division, and make the playoffs....

In comment 13035402 Doomster said:

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is Shepard....... And Cruz is the reason.....one, until he goes out there and can show he has the same cutting ability and quickness.....two, that, that knee can take a hit......and three, that he can play a full season......we have been let down by him, the last three seasons......to count on him is a mistake....he should be looked at as a bonus, if he indeed does play.... That's why Shepard is the #1 key to this offense.....he has to replace Randle, by game one......That is a lot of pressure to put on a rookie receiver, especially if Cruz fails or comes around slowly...... If Cruz fails, that's OBj, SS, and Harris......we need someone to step up, and be the 3rd or 4th guy..... It seems that the Giants are prepared to go with the OL that finished the year......these 5 have played together for a year.....I think they will be better...but there is no depth......we have to hope Reese finds someone's outcast, as an upgrade to the backups we have.... It seems to be the same situation with the TE's....they are going with what they have... We needed a RB, and we were lucky that Perkins was still on the board....but he is a rookie, and while potentially better than what we already have, he is still an unknown.....We will probably ride Jennings as long as we can, but Vereen, Darkwa, Williams, and Co. are not the answer...... This is a team, with no depth on offense or defense.....we have to avoid major injuries.......we can probably tolerate minor injuries to key players..... If we get lucky with Cruz, if Perkins and Shepard, can work their way into the starting lineup, and if we can avoid the injury bug that has plagued us for several seasons, there is no reason this team can't take the division, and make the playoffs....

Very good reply. My only major contention is that I actually like Dwarka at RB. In spots he flashed last year and now he knows the offense. I like Perkins, good pick, but like you said he is a rookie and therefore an unknown. Vereen isn't a starting running back but he'll play some and be the 3rd down back.

And yes Shepherd could indeed end up being a key piece to the offense should Cruz falter.

I realize Jerry and Newhouse are the returning starter veterans but I do wonder if Hart might just step up. I have read good things about him just don't know if he has the experience to over-take either of the two?

over, and over, over, and over, and over again!!!

New Coaching for Williams - ( New Window )

In comment 13035423 TC said:

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over, and over, over, and over, and over again!!! New Coaching for Williams - ( New Window )

Andre Williams has physical tools but not sure he is nifty enough to use blockers to best effectiveness and such. We shall see.

But I get the impression he is best behind a FB like Johnson. I don't see him as a single set back so much.

Anyone know how developed Perkins is? Is he sort of NFL ready with the ability to pick up the blitz and so forth?

I am really hoping Dwarka, Perkins, Vereen are all ready out the gates. I know Vereeen is but he isn't a regular back.

Honestly, while the O-line can seem concerning, there's only so much progress we can expect this year with Newhouse as a starter. I think next off season we're going to get the final piece of that puzzle and be done with it for a few years (after extending Jerry).

So for 2016, Shepard showing up as the guy he's been purported to be is the biggest key to this offense. Randle had his flaws, but he also scored a lot of touchdowns. We need someone to offer similar production. If Shepard even copies the production and doesn't make the mental errors that would be a huge plus. And I think that would guarantee a potential repeat of Eli's production last year.

Secondly, a RB coming out behind Jennings proving to be a future starter would also be a huge boon. Either Williams or Perkins, if they can carry the ball over a hundred times for near 4.5 yards a carry, that too would be a huge pick up for our offense. (This is obviously assuming Rashad starts the whole season.)

Lastly, while Tye produced good numbers, he's not a threatening offensive weapon. If he or Donnell can show some consistency at that position that would give the team some stability. Even if it's not those two, a consistent starter from the TE position would really help this offense going forward. If Adams can get off the line and make some catches, that duel threat - like with the RB position - would give Eli a lot of flexibility and defenses a lot of difficulty with trying to plan for Eli's attack.

In comment 13035432 adamg said:

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Honestly, while the O-line can seem concerning, there's only so much progress we can expect this year with Newhouse as a starter. I think next off season we're going to get the final piece of that puzzle and be done with it for a few years (after extending Jerry). So for 2016, Shepard showing up as the guy he's been purported to be is the biggest key to this offense. Randle had his flaws, but he also scored a lot of touchdowns. We need someone to offer similar production. If Shepard even copies the production and doesn't make the mental errors that would be a huge plus. And I think that would guarantee a potential repeat of Eli's production last year. Secondly, a RB coming out behind Jennings proving to be a future starter would also be a huge boon. Either Williams or Perkins, if they can carry the ball over a hundred times for near 4.5 yards a carry, that too would be a huge pick up for our offense. (This is obviously assuming Rashad starts the whole season.) Lastly, while Tye produced good numbers, he's not a threatening offensive weapon. If he or Donnell can show some consistency at that position that would give the team some stability. Even if it's not those two, a consistent starter from the TE position would really help this offense going forward. If Adams can get off the line and make some catches, that duel threat - like with the RB position - would give Eli a lot of flexibility and defenses a lot of difficulty with trying to plan for Eli's attack.

I thought Te was pretty nifty last year and improved. I think Adams has the most physical talent and upside. I also believe the OL, if healthy and together through camp, will be better due to experience and coach Solari. Good reply and I appreciate much of what you say.

In comment 13035434 SGMen said:

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I thought Te was pretty nifty last year and improved. I think Adams has the most physical talent and upside. I also believe the OL, if healthy and together through camp, will be better due to experience and coach Solari. Good reply and I appreciate much of what you say.

I like Tye, but I think his height limits his use in certain situations. I also think Donnell is better at contested grabs. Both together offer options that are valuable. But, yeah, is Adams can become Donnell like in his offensive value, that would be a huge option for Eli.

I agree about the OL getting better with experience, but I think we may draft a RT next year and I think that would be a good thing. I don't dislike Newhouse, but I think we could use a more solid run blocker on the right side though. Newhouse as depth would be fantastic.

In comment 13035437 adamg said:

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In comment 13035434 SGMen said: Quote: I thought Te was pretty nifty last year and improved. I think Adams has the most physical talent and upside. I also believe the OL, if healthy and together through camp, will be better due to experience and coach Solari. Good reply and I appreciate much of what you say. I like Tye, but I think his height limits his use in certain situations. I also think Donnell is better at contested grabs. Both together offer options that are valuable. But, yeah, is Adams can become Donnell like in his offensive value, that would be a huge option for Eli. I agree about the OL getting better with experience, but I think we may draft a RT next year and I think that would be a good thing. I don't dislike Newhouse, but I think we could use a more solid run blocker on the right side though. Newhouse as depth would be fantastic.

Tye is short, yes, but he still can get open. He got better as last year moved along. Donnell is good at contested grabs. But Adams offers the most upside and my hope he is the "Boss" of 2016 who comes on as the year goes along and creates mismatches.

Coming back to form. I think the OP's projected numbers are wildly optimistic and unrealistic if we want this team to be successful. Ideally, we will have too many options for teams to defend in the passing set. ODB and Shep should provide a ton of production or at least attn from the defense. Tye should be able to get open up the seam, Donnell can go up and get it and Vereen or Jennings coming out of the backfield is a handful for any team. Our pass blocking was pretty damn solid last year.

But if you want a "key" to the O, it's run blocking. We have a nice stable of backs. No real game breakers, but Jennings is reliable as an every down back as long as he's healthy, Vereen changes things as a receiving threat where they can split him out and Perkins as apparently our future full timer will be a dynamic back when giving Jennings a break assuming he can block. Who knows what Williams is gonna do. I'd like to believe he can thrive behind some good run blocking because him getting to the 2nd and 3rd levels sounds scary to me for other teams to have to deal with.

If we can get a viable, and consistent running game to go with what we can do through the air, we will be a top five offense in the league with arguably the most clutch an. You give Eli options to audible in and out of, he is literally the best an in the game. Then, it's all up to the defense.

Man I have a very good feeling about this year.

But he hasn't had 1 year over 200 carries. Granted some of that was because of injuries and some was him playing behind MJD, but he doesn't have the 250+ carries per year that normally wears these guys down. I think he has at least another year, maybe two of solid production.
Link - ( New Window )

clutch player emerges who can make that key play in the final minutes/seconds of the game.

In comment 13035449 hammock man said:

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clutch player emerges who can make that key play in the final minutes/seconds of the game.

Clutch is key. I like Vereen, OBJ, and Tye for good reason.

outside of ELi/OBJ this season...

In comment 13035465 Jimmy Googs said:

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outside of ELi/OBJ this season...

Agree with this.

Despite the ranking, this was not an offense that ran up scores on anyone. With no major weapons beyond Odell, an erratic and below average running game, and average offensive line, this was not an elite offense, and somewhat inconsistent.

We know about Cruz and Shepard, so I won't discuss them.

I do think they want to make Shane Vereen a bigger part of the offense and we saw glympses of what he is capable of, at times. Similarly, there is potential in this group of young TEs. If someone outside of the receivers emerged as a legitimate pass catching threat, it could have a big impact on the offense.

With that said, if I had to state one key, I would propably point to the running game. The erratic running game has been holding the offense back for years. For the reasons I stated above, the offense is challenged to overcome unfavorable down and distance situations, and they have found themselves in those situations far too often at the hands of ineffective runs for no gains or losses.

We saw some signs of hope at the end of the season last year. Whatever it was, if they can find a way to build off of that and get some legitimacy to the running game, this could have a major impact to the offense, especially if in conjunction with one of the other adds mentioned. But a running game is transformative, meaning this offense is a whole different animal if they can run on you.

and that is #10, E. Manning. All of the greats, think Peyton, Elway and Unitas, retained or regained their effectiveness after a period of less that peak performance, and led their teams back to the top. Eli has not been as clutch the last few years, though generally more productive. In 2011 he showed that he can pull a team together and lead it to victory even if those around him are not optimal. This year's team is better that sub-optimal, they are potential champions. The key, it is suggested, is whether Eli returns to championship form, performs in the clutch, and leads this group to the SB.

will allow Eli enough confidence to have more medium and long routes called within the Offense. Having the luxury of two guys like OBJ and Shepard who have enough speed and quick separation, Eli should have more options should the defense want to roll coverage one way or pressure him.

And if he feels he has a bit more time in pocket, he can hold for another second and see if one breaks free. If not, the WCO options should be available.

I don't think we can expect much more than just moderate improvements in the O-line (at best), but I do expect Defenses to be wary of our passing game which might just create the time Eli needs to light em' up.

In comment 13035114 SGMen said:

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In comment 13035107 yatqb said: Quote: If an OT gets injured we could be in trouble unless we sign someone before the season begins. Flowers must improve for sure and stay healthy. We do lack OL depth as do many teams. My hope is Hart shows enough to be a RT. I mean, if injuries hit we'd have to move Pugh to OT for sure. And yes, I think Shepherd is key too. I have this feeling he'll be solid out of the gates as a 4th WR and develop into our #3 during the season. An effective #3.

Shepard is NOT going to be the #4 WR in game 1. He's the #2 from the get go and the ONLY question is if Cruz can be the #3 or whether he is damaged goods in which case he splits his time with Harris.

In comment 13035445 chopperhatch said:

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Coming back to form. I think the OP's projected numbers are wildly optimistic and unrealistic if we want this team to be successful. Ideally, we will have too many options for teams to defend in the passing set. ODB and Shep should provide a ton of production or at least attn from the defense. Tye should be able to get open up the seam, Donnell can go up and get it and Vereen or Jennings coming out of the backfield is a handful for any team. Our pass blocking was pretty damn solid last year. But if you want a "key" to the O, it's run blocking. We have a nice stable of backs. No real game breakers, but Jennings is reliable as an every down back as long as he's healthy, Vereen changes things as a receiving threat where they can split him out and Perkins as apparently our future full timer will be a dynamic back when giving Jennings a break assuming he can block. Who knows what Williams is gonna do. I'd like to believe he can thrive behind some good run blocking because him getting to the 2nd and 3rd levels sounds scary to me for other teams to have to deal with. If we can get a viable, and consistent running game to go with what we can do through the air, we will be a top five offense in the league with arguably the most clutch an. You give Eli options to audible in and out of, he is literally the best an in the game. Then, it's all up to the defense. Man I have a very good feeling about this year.

I am with you on the run blocking and our ability to essentially spread the ball around. I believe the left side of our OL will run block better than ever.

The right side of the OL will likely maybe only improve a shade because of coach Solari and just the fact that they have played together in this offense for more than just a year. Experience and continuity are big. I also wonder how much OG Hart develops. If this kid does come on maybe he does start at RT at some point. I doubt he does out of the gates this year as he is only 22 with one game under his belt but I'm hopeful he can show in spots, maybe be our short yardage tackle or guard.

But I disagree on Cruz. I think his coming back to form would put this offense over the top. If Eli has a short underneath wideout that he can trust and rely on more than Randle we'll see less turnovers and more 3rd and short conversions. I'm not sure how many interceptions Randle cost Eli but it was a lot more than should ever be. Cruz's comeback, if it does happen and reports are he has healed, would be huge.

As for Shepherd, I do believe he'll play right out of the gates and produce but as a #4 wideout. No way he starts over a healthy Cruz due to experience. Harris also will be year two in this offense and he is in his prime so he'll see the field as a wideout.

I think as the season progresses we'll hopefully see more of the youth out there producing: Perkins, Shepherd, Adams and so forth. That is the key to late season success as it changes up game film and just produces results. Young guys who step up and surprise, we need that kind of year. Amen.

In comment 13035522 oldog said:

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and that is #10, E. Manning. All of the greats, think Peyton, Elway and Unitas, retained or regained their effectiveness after a period of less that peak performance, and led their teams back to the top. Eli has not been as clutch the last few years, though generally more productive. In 2011 he showed that he can pull a team together and lead it to victory even if those around him are not optimal. This year's team is better that sub-optimal, they are potential champions. The key, it is suggested, is whether Eli returns to championship form, performs in the clutch, and leads this group to the SB.

I don't think Eli has been the problem the last two years by any means? He has been clutch and solid. He has lacked a run game and a enough redzone weapons to really score a lot. 2011, yes he was in the zone and out of this world. He took hits in 2011 and still hit Cruz and Nicks and Ballard!!

This year, I think he'll spread the ball around like never before. As for those that believe Shepherd is the #2 WR out of the gates I hope he shows enough to be that but he is a rookie and that is asking a lot.

in the org now compare Shepard to Beckham. I think Shepard is at worst WR #2.5 and only that if Cruz comes back 100% healthy.

This team is gonna rock if the OL improves.

One thing I've really thought about is how good this DL can be if it stays healthy and the youth develop.

I think the starting DL will be strong against the run. I think Vernon, Hankins and JPP will put pressure on the QB.

But a big key is how much the young guys develop as all good defenses rotate the DL's and use situational matchups.

We have to hope Bromley, Wynn and OWA produce. These guys have to be there to rotate in and be effective. Not just bodies. As a season goes on DL's can wear down but if you rotate or have backups that are almost as good as some of your starters you are in a much better position to beat teams down in the the last 10 minutes of a game.

Call me crazy, but I have this feeling that FB Whitlock, who has beefed up and had good pass rush in college and in flashes last year, well that he makes the team and becomes a defacto pass rusher. We need someone to surprise and be a superb pass rusher if even for 3rd and long and spot duty.

I'm not sure how you hold a roster spot for Whitlock given the numbers game but if this kid shows he can rush the passer no way he gets cut. If you can put pressure on a QB in this league you have a shot in every game. Can Whitlock at 250 pounds this year be a surprise guy? A guy who gets those 10 to 15 pass rush snaps a game? A guy who makes the team as the backup FB and special teamer plus pass rusher?

I have a good feeling about Whitlock. Anyone else?

But you really want to be able to run effectively against 7-man fronts, which you would hope they'll see a lot of as teams look to defend the passing game. This gives an edge to Manning in an area he already excels, which is the mental game that gets called at the line.

You also want to see the ability to pop a few long runs. Giants were tied for 22nd in the league in runs of 20 yards or more and had zero runs of 40 yards. That has to improve. More often than not, big runs = momentum and translate directly into points.

In comment 13035697 UberAlias said:

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But you really want to be able to run effectively against 7-man fronts, which you would hope they'll see a lot of as teams look to defend the passing game. This gives an edge to Manning in an area he already excels, which is the mental game that gets called at the line. You also want to see the ability to pop a few long runs. Giants were tied for 22nd in the league in runs of 20 yards or more and had zero runs of 40 yards. That has to improve. More often than not, big runs = momentum and translate directly into points.

I really do believe we will have our best rushing year of the McAdoo offense era this year. I really believe the left side of our OL along with our TE and FB Johnson will open things up with better blocking.

It sucks that we could not sign UFA RT Penn as I think he still has a good year or two left in him and he can run block but you can't have everything.

I believe in coach Solari based on what I've read about him on this site. He has produced his whole career. He can motivate and is a great teacher.

If Newhouse and Jerry (who is so big) improve just a shade this offense will in fact run the ball well. I have a good feeling that RB Williams will run well behind a FB like Johnson. I also have a good feeling about RB Dwarka. Call me crazy but he looked good in spots last year and now he will know the offense.

My points are that this offense is now "mature" and has better blocking than any of the previous McAdoo offenses. If we are effective on the ground, and we will be, there is no doubt in my mind that things will be better for our passing game. And vice versa really.

I mean, if Eli is effective throwing things get easier for the run game. Keep moving the chains and getting first downs. Control the ball 35-38 minutes a game or something like that and don't turn it over. We just need that redzone offense to come alive. I think that happens this year with the addition of Johnson at FB; return of Cruz; and, development of TE position. Plus we have to hope a guy like Shepherd or even WR G. Davis or WR Dable (big guys) develop.

The Giants just need to stay healthy and for our youth to develop. I think it can happen and will happen this year. This will be our best offense of the Eli era, at least potentially.

...easy. RT and RG play plus the cruz wildcard.

In comment 13035801 Torrag said:

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...easy. RT and RG play plus the cruz wildcard.

Yeah, the right side of the OL needs to play at least a shade better than last year and I believe they will. The Giants new OL coach Solari should be a positive influence along with the fact that this offense is now "mature" in experience with McAdoo.

The wildcard for the right side is OG Hart, at least for short yardage offense since Jerry ain't much of a run blocker.

As for Cruz, yes he is a wildcard and I am betting he bounces back. Not like the guy he was in 2011-2012 but the Giants can maybe expect a good "get open" guy who feeds off OBJ. If he improves the #2 wideout spot in terms of making 3rd down conversions and not costing Eli interceptions like Randle did, we've upgraded.

I believe the OL play will improve. I've noted this on many of my responses above.

I also think Eli should stick with the 3 step drops and work the field. We should have better and more varied passing options and that means we will move the ball better and hold it longer every game. This is kind of what the Patriots do.

We have one advantage as well: more speed with OBJ and now Shepherd in the passing game. If we run the ball effectively, and we will, even a 3 step drop and throw could lead to big plays down field. And if Eli has time and wants to hold it another half second cause he knows he can look for big plays.

I'm truly stoked for this season's offense.

In comment 13035407 SGMen said:

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My only major contention is that I actually like Dwarka at RB. In spots he flashed last year and now he knows the offense.

I'm sorry to say that I think it unlikely that Darkwa makes the team -- his current injury may even make the choice moot.

In comment 13035945 gidiefor said:

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In comment 13035407 SGMen said: Quote: My only major contention is that I actually like Dwarka at RB. In spots he flashed last year and now he knows the offense. I'm sorry to say that I think it unlikely that Darkwa makes the team -- his current injury may even make the choice moot.

Ah, I did not know that Dwarka was currently injured. I log onto BBI sporadically, this weekend being one where I have spent some time.

I wonder if he recovers in time for camp? I like the guy, saw flashes last year and figure he now knows the offense well so it gives him an advantage.

In truth, my hope is that Perkins really flashes in camp and gets carries right away. I mean, we could use one of those "drafts" where all the picks produce year #1, especially Apple, Shepherd and Perkins with Adams coming through as the year moves on to.

In comment 13035618 SGMen said:

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As for those that believe Shepherd is the #2 WR out of the gates I hope he shows enough to be that but he is a rookie and that is asking a lot.

And the reason he'll be the #2 is pretty obvious. If not Shepard (and ignoring Cruz for the moment), then who? If there is any WR on this roster better than Shepard (other than Cruz), then this team is in deep doo doo.

If it isn't Beckham - Shepard - Cruz then it is Cruz who won't be part of the trio - Shepard is a given (and as I said, if he is the #4 as OP suggests (not due to injury), then there is a serious, serious problem. The question isn't Shepard - it's Cruz.

In comment 13035986 baadbill said:

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In comment 13035618 SGMen said: Quote: As for those that believe Shepherd is the #2 WR out of the gates I hope he shows enough to be that but he is a rookie and that is asking a lot. And the reason he'll be the #2 is pretty obvious. If not Shepard (and ignoring Cruz for the moment), then who? If there is any WR on this roster better than Shepard (other than Cruz), then this team is in deep doo doo. If it isn't Beckham - Shepard - Cruz then it is Cruz who won't be part of the trio - Shepard is a given (and as I said, if he is the #4 as OP suggests (not due to injury), then there is a serious, serious problem. The question isn't Shepard - it's Cruz.

I just am never sold on rookies starting. I figure work your way into the lineup. But I'm reading from another thread how good Shepherd looks so maybe at worst he is the #3 should Crz in fact bounce back nicely. Bottom line: I pray Shepherd is legit, a "mini OBJ" in the sense that he flourishes as a rookie wideout. We need some serious luck.

In comment 13036013 SGMen said:

Quote:

In comment 13035986 baadbill said: Quote: In comment 13035618 SGMen said: Quote: As for those that believe Shepherd is the #2 WR out of the gates I hope he shows enough to be that but he is a rookie and that is asking a lot. And the reason he'll be the #2 is pretty obvious. If not Shepard (and ignoring Cruz for the moment), then who? If there is any WR on this roster better than Shepard (other than Cruz), then this team is in deep doo doo. If it isn't Beckham - Shepard - Cruz then it is Cruz who won't be part of the trio - Shepard is a given (and as I said, if he is the #4 as OP suggests (not due to injury), then there is a serious, serious problem. The question isn't Shepard - it's Cruz. I just am never sold on rookies starting. I figure work your way into the lineup. But I'm reading from another thread how good Shepherd looks so maybe at worst he is the #3 should Crz in fact bounce back nicely. Bottom line: I pray Shepherd is legit, a "mini OBJ" in the sense that he flourishes as a rookie wideout. We need some serious luck.

But that really isn't the point. There isn't another WR on the roster that would start for any team in the league. As I said - if not Shepard, then who? There is ZERO legitimate competition.

In comment 13036044 baadbill said:

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In comment 13036013 SGMen said: Quote: In comment 13035986 baadbill said: Quote: In comment 13035618 SGMen said: Quote: As for those that believe Shepherd is the #2 WR out of the gates I hope he shows enough to be that but he is a rookie and that is asking a lot. And the reason he'll be the #2 is pretty obvious. If not Shepard (and ignoring Cruz for the moment), then who? If there is any WR on this roster better than Shepard (other than Cruz), then this team is in deep doo doo. If it isn't Beckham - Shepard - Cruz then it is Cruz who won't be part of the trio - Shepard is a given (and as I said, if he is the #4 as OP suggests (not due to injury), then there is a serious, serious problem. The question isn't Shepard - it's Cruz. I just am never sold on rookies starting. I figure work your way into the lineup. But I'm reading from another thread how good Shepherd looks so maybe at worst he is the #3 should Crz in fact bounce back nicely. Bottom line: I pray Shepherd is legit, a "mini OBJ" in the sense that he flourishes as a rookie wideout. We need some serious luck. But that really isn't the point. There isn't another WR on the roster that would start for any team in the league. As I said - if not Shepard, then who? There is ZERO legitimate competition.

You know what, you are right that we have no other legit starting receiver if not Cruz - lol. But if Cruz isn't back and ready then yes it has to be Shepherd.

I'm being overly optimistic with Cruz given his injuriies but I have to believe. I just have to believe.

He has tools indeed and looked good in mini-camp. When you hear chatter that a rookie may be your #2 that is good news. It says he has talent and just needs to learn on the field.

Not to beat a dead horse over and over but I still think we need WR Cruz to win the #2 role. If Cruz is healthy enough to be the #2 and is an upgrade to Randle due to route running creating less turnovers this offense is going to be special.

Let Shepherd learn in the #3 role this year.

Finally, we still have WR and ST ace Harris at #4 wideout. The potential is there we just have to hope for quick learners and health.

In comment 13036647 SGMen said:

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He has tools indeed and looked good in mini-camp. When you hear chatter that a rookie may be your #2 that is good news. It says he has talent and just needs to learn on the field. Not to beat a dead horse over and over but I still think we need WR Cruz to win the #2 role. If Cruz is healthy enough to be the #2 and is an upgrade to Randle due to route running creating less turnovers this offense is going to be special. Let Shepherd learn in the #3 role this year. Finally, we still have WR and ST ace Harris at #4 wideout. The potential is there we just have to hope for quick learners and health.

In today's NFL and with this Giant's offense, I just don't think in terms of a #1, 2 or 3 WR. The Giants are likely to have 3 WR on the field for the overwhelming percentage of snaps - and who gets the ball will be a function of how the D is playing them. All 3 WR will be equally critical to the success of each other. The Guants have 2 of the 3 in Beckham and Shepard. The only open question is whether Cruz can complete the starting trio. If not - there's a huge drop off to Harris.

In comment 13036692 baadbill said:

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In comment 13036647 SGMen said: Quote: He has tools indeed and looked good in mini-camp. When you hear chatter that a rookie may be your #2 that is good news. It says he has talent and just needs to learn on the field. Not to beat a dead horse over and over but I still think we need WR Cruz to win the #2 role. If Cruz is healthy enough to be the #2 and is an upgrade to Randle due to route running creating less turnovers this offense is going to be special. Let Shepherd learn in the #3 role this year. Finally, we still have WR and ST ace Harris at #4 wideout. The potential is there we just have to hope for quick learners and health. In today's NFL and with this Giant's offense, I just don't think in terms of a #1, 2 or 3 WR. The Giants are likely to have 3 WR on the field for the overwhelming percentage of snaps - and who gets the ball will be a function of how the D is playing them. All 3 WR will be equally critical to the success of each other. The Guants have 2 of the 3 in Beckham and Shepard. The only open question is whether Cruz can complete the starting trio. If not - there's a huge drop off to Harris.

I agree that WR Harris is a drop off but he is serviceable. You could live with him, especially because he is now year #2 in this offense and had more experience running routes and receiving last year than ever before in his career.

But the reality is that Harris is on this team for his superb special teams ability. That is a fact.

The ex Canadian league superstar bulked up this off-season. He now has a training camp under his belt and an off-season to learn how OL is played in the NFL. He was so dominant in Canada that when we signed him I thought for sure he'd be no worse than a #1 backup center with serviceable starter ability in the NFL.

Anyone know anything about him in terms of whether he sticks as the #2 OC and possibly play OG in a pinch?

In comment 13036876 SGMen said:

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The ex Canadian league superstar bulked up this off-season. He now has a training camp under his belt and an off-season to learn how OL is played in the NFL. He was so dominant in Canada that when we signed him I thought for sure he'd be no worse than a #1 backup center with serviceable starter ability in the NFL. Anyone know anything about him in terms of whether he sticks as the #2 OC and possibly play OG in a pinch?

Yeah - he wasn't running with the first or second team this spring

15+ carries by one RB averaging over 4 yards a carry per game.

In comment 13036935 gidiefor said:

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In comment 13036876 SGMen said: Quote: The ex Canadian league superstar bulked up this off-season. He now has a training camp under his belt and an off-season to learn how OL is played in the NFL. He was so dominant in Canada that when we signed him I thought for sure he'd be no worse than a #1 backup center with serviceable starter ability in the NFL. Anyone know anything about him in terms of whether he sticks as the #2 OC and possibly play OG in a pinch? Yeah - he wasn't running with the first or second team this spring

That is obviously not a good sign then. Sometimes, you can get hyped about a guy based on "potential" and so forth. Hey, I guess we will know more by the first preseason game, if he plays or not.

In comment 13036943 The Tempest said:

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15+ carries by one RB averaging over 4 yards a carry per game.

Lets hope for that much and no fumbles either. Based on what I've read and my hopes, I think Jennings does in fact start the season; RB Williams is change of pace with FB Johnson on the field with him; Vereen on 3rd downs; and, more and more of RB Perkins as the season moves along.

I didn't realize that Eli was this efficient when he throws the long ball. I mean, I know the long ball is the best part of his game along with having veins of ice but with this kind of stat you have to think we'll throw deep more.
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