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B.J. Goodson: The next Jon Goff or the next Phillip Dillard?

Klaatu : 7/18/2016 10:33 am


The Giants drafted Clemson LB B.J. Goodson in the 4th Round this year. To me, he seems like a natural MIKE, but the competition there should be intense this summer with returning veteran Jasper Brinkley, and new additions Keenan Robinson and Kelvin Sheppard. I doubt Goodson will win the starting job, but I hope he shows some skills in a backup role and on special teams. Going forward, though, I wonder what kind of impact he'll have beyond his rookie year?

In 2008, the Giants drafted Vanderbilt LB Jon Goff in the 5th Round. Goff only appeared in five games as a rookie (two tackles), but became the full-time starter at MIKE in 2010. Unfortunately, Goff tore his ACL at the beginning of the 2011 season and never played for the Giants again. He did get a shot in Washington in 2012, but he tore the same ACL in their camp, ending his football career.

In 2010, the Giants drafted Nebraska LB Phillip Dillard in the 4th Round. Dillard appeared in seven games as rookie (four tackles) but despite drawing praise from the likes of Carl Banks, the Giants cut him before the 2011 season began. Dillard had a cup of coffee with Carolina, the Omaha Nighthawks of the UFL, and San Diego, but I don't believe he ever played a down with either of the two NFL clubs.

So, in your opinion, is Goodson closer to Goff - a promising young player with starter potential in the future - or Dillard - a mid-round pick who will never amount to anything and will be off the team before his rookie contract is up, or, maybe somewhere in between?
Hopefully,  
Giantology : 7/18/2016 10:34 am : link
Neither.
How about  
GeorgeAdams33 : 7/18/2016 10:37 am : link
... the next Harry Carson.
How about the next Pepper?  
MBavaro : 7/18/2016 10:43 am : link
Hell, I'll settle for the next Michael Barrow at this point....
Hoping the  
area junc : 7/18/2016 10:44 am : link
next Antonio Pierce

for some reason, Clemson guys are all 1-year wonders so it wasn't just BJ
I'd settle for the next Goff  
Johnny5 : 7/18/2016 10:59 am : link
But without the injuries. Goff was really starting to settle into that MLB spot before the ACL injury.
The next Harry Carson  
PatersonPlank : 7/18/2016 11:03 am : link
.
Goodson & Giants Draft Refresher From Dave-Te  
nflscouting : 7/18/2016 11:22 am : link
Hey guys,
here is what we had on Goodson during his selection. He's more a David Harris type, but also has ST & OLB experience. Also, a link to all their draft choices;
Goodson article & scouting report;
http://nfldraftreport.sportsblog.com/posts/16948066/the-nfl-draft-report-s--final-analysis--series---giants-hope-later-bloomer-b-j--goodson-can-continue-his-emergence.html

The draft pick link;
http://nfldraftreport.sportsblog.com/posts/17006011/the-nfl-draft-report-s--final-analys--series---a-look-back-at-the-new-york-giants-2016-draft-class.html?_ga=1.169401761.1451292741.1468699930
Butkus  
Giants2012 : 7/18/2016 11:26 am : link
.
I thought Goff had a future  
pjcas18 : 7/18/2016 11:27 am : link
he looked decent, but we haven't seen the kid take one snap in blue yet, can we set the bar higher than Goff?
Don't know about Goodson but...  
BillT : 7/18/2016 11:32 am : link
Quote:
Unfortunately, Goff tore his ACL at the beginning of the 2011 season


There have been so many of these I'd forgotten that Goff is another guy who could still be playing for the Giants.
RE: I'd settle for the next Goff  
BlueLou : 7/18/2016 11:43 am : link
In comment 13036426 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
But without the injuries. Goff was really starting to settle into that MLB spot before the ACL injury.


This^^^.

And your recap of Goff's brief career as a Giant is a bit unfair. As a rookie he immediately earned the key role on STs kickoff coverage as a wedge buster and was good at it, until he busted a "transverse process of a vertebra" which is WHY he only appeared in 5 games as a rookie.

He was starting to look pretty good as a starting Mike, and as an engineering major at Vanderbilt had more than enough between the ears to be a Mike signal caller along the lines of AP and Chase Blackburn, his predecessors known for their astute knowledge of the game.
BTW I don't think Goodson is quite the athlete Goff was,  
BlueLou : 7/18/2016 11:46 am : link
but he's not far off and can be a 3 down player. He attacks the LOS when confident in his reads quite the same as Goff did as a collegiate player, maybe moreso, from what limited tape I have seen of him.
Everything I've read about Goodson is that he is a solid character  
SGMen : 7/18/2016 11:55 am : link
Hard Worker. He doesn't have that great 40 time but a MIKE doesn't necessarily have to be fast in the 40 but instead be quick in the 10 and have that great first step (instincts). By all accounts, Goodson has the instincts.

The only reason he was a 4th round pick is his 40 time, IMHO. If he was a step faster he'd have easily been a #2.

I think Goodson learns a bit of all 3 LB positions this year and starts at MIKE for us next year. He is smart and will just need to learn this year and play special teams which he is very good at as I understand it.

Lastly, I have a good feeling that a healthy LB K. Robinson will be solid for us this year. He has the coverage ability we've been lacking for MLB. Last year we were killed over the middle because we had no coverage safety, MLB and our nickel corners were below average. This year, I think Robinson shores things up and CB Jenkins ends up winning the slot CB job where he'll cover better than anyone else we have.

Let Goodson learn this year, play specials, and be our starter of the future. He has the instincts and I think it will come out in camp and give us hope.
Nice breakdown of his play with tape and commentary  
BlueLou : 7/18/2016 11:56 am : link
Linked below.
BJ Goodson - ( New Window )
RE: Nice breakdown of his play with tape and commentary  
SGMen : 7/18/2016 12:06 pm : link
In comment 13036519 BlueLou said:
Quote:
Linked below. BJ Goodson - ( New Window )
This is pretty much what I had understood about his abilities. The thing I also really like about him is "team captain" of the defense which tells me he studies and clearly has character else he'd have not been picked for that role by Clemson coaches.
PFF had an article about Goff headlined  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/18/2016 12:53 pm : link
"Goff exploded as a run defender in 2010. He had the same number of defensive stops (37) as Bart Scott, our top ranked run-stopping inside linebacker, despite playing almost 200 fewer snaps. He also made more stops per tackle than studs like Patrick Willis and Brian Urlacher and missed just two tackles on the year. A particular highlight was an impressive Week 2 performance against Indianapolis where he logged five stops on seven tackles and earned a +3.0 Run D grade. He put on an equally strong display against Chicago two weeks later. His +14.5 rating for the year had him ranked as the ninth best inside linebacker against the run."

What a fucking shame.
Jonathan Goff - ( New Window )
Oops...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/18/2016 12:53 pm : link
The article was named "Secret Superstar: Jonathan Goff".
you have to have pretty low expectations if Jonathan Goff  
Victor in CT : 7/18/2016 12:58 pm : link
is your ceiling.
RE: PFF had an article about Goff headlined  
PatersonPlank : 7/18/2016 1:04 pm : link
In comment 13036621 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
"Goff exploded as a run defender in 2010. He had the same number of defensive stops (37) as Bart Scott, our top ranked run-stopping inside linebacker, despite playing almost 200 fewer snaps. He also made more stops per tackle than studs like Patrick Willis and Brian Urlacher and missed just two tackles on the year. A particular highlight was an impressive Week 2 performance against Indianapolis where he logged five stops on seven tackles and earned a +3.0 Run D grade. He put on an equally strong display against Chicago two weeks later. His +14.5 rating for the year had him ranked as the ninth best inside linebacker against the run."

What a fucking shame. Jonathan Goff - ( New Window )


Goff was turning into a very good MLB. His injury was such a shame. If he didn't get hurt, IMO he would have been a mainstay at MLB for a long time. He could have made a big difference.
Yeah, tend to agree with the sentiment here that I expect  
Jimmy Googs : 7/18/2016 1:05 pm : link
Goodson to be better than Goff-like. And wouldn't think that is too much of a reach either...
so basically is Goodson going to be good or not?  
chris r : 7/18/2016 1:14 pm : link
seems like a less convoluted way to frame the question.
RE: RE: PFF had an article about Goff headlined  
Jimmy Googs : 7/18/2016 1:17 pm : link
In comment 13036653 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 13036621 shockeyisthebest8056 said:


Quote:


"Goff exploded as a run defender in 2010. He had the same number of defensive stops (37) as Bart Scott, our top ranked run-stopping inside linebacker, despite playing almost 200 fewer snaps. He also made more stops per tackle than studs like Patrick Willis and Brian Urlacher and missed just two tackles on the year. A particular highlight was an impressive Week 2 performance against Indianapolis where he logged five stops on seven tackles and earned a +3.0 Run D grade. He put on an equally strong display against Chicago two weeks later. His +14.5 rating for the year had him ranked as the ninth best inside linebacker against the run."

What a fucking shame. Jonathan Goff - ( New Window )



Goff was turning into a very good MLB. His injury was such a shame. If he didn't get hurt, IMO he would have been a mainstay at MLB for a long time. He could have made a big difference.


I don't recall perceiving Goff as such a good MLB. He was fine in my imo, but didn't realize he had such good stats as noted by PFF. Maybe he was going to be a mainstay.

Just seems like anyone quoting MLB play with Willis & Urlacher and then including Goff is a bit odd...
RE: RE: RE: PFF had an article about Goff headlined  
SGMen : 7/18/2016 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13036672 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13036653 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


In comment 13036621 shockeyisthebest8056 said:


Quote:


"Goff exploded as a run defender in 2010. He had the same number of defensive stops (37) as Bart Scott, our top ranked run-stopping inside linebacker, despite playing almost 200 fewer snaps. He also made more stops per tackle than studs like Patrick Willis and Brian Urlacher and missed just two tackles on the year. A particular highlight was an impressive Week 2 performance against Indianapolis where he logged five stops on seven tackles and earned a +3.0 Run D grade. He put on an equally strong display against Chicago two weeks later. His +14.5 rating for the year had him ranked as the ninth best inside linebacker against the run."

What a fucking shame. Jonathan Goff - ( New Window )



Goff was turning into a very good MLB. His injury was such a shame. If he didn't get hurt, IMO he would have been a mainstay at MLB for a long time. He could have made a big difference.



I don't recall perceiving Goff as such a good MLB. He was fine in my imo, but didn't realize he had such good stats as noted by PFF. Maybe he was going to be a mainstay.

Just seems like anyone quoting MLB play with Willis & Urlacher and then including Goff is a bit odd...
I recall Goff getting very good pub on BBI and then how sad folks were when he got hurt. What a crying shame. Lets hope Goodson always stays healthy.
RE: so basically is Goodson going to be good or not?  
Klaatu : 7/18/2016 1:30 pm : link
In comment 13036669 chris r said:
Quote:
seems like a less convoluted way to frame the question.


But also a lot less creative and entertaining. You should think about that before you make your next "Link?" post, or criticize someone for trying to stimulate discussion on a slow news day in the offseason.

That, too, is less convoluted than simply saying, "Go fuck yourself, radar."
I never liked Goff's game...  
Torrag : 7/18/2016 2:01 pm : link
...either before or after the injury. We all know Dillard was a complete bust. So hopefully Goodson has more impact than either of those turds.

The potential is there. He has an intriguing combination of college production and athletic measurables. If he's also a football player by which I mean possessing instincts and durability for the game he could be a find in the 4th Round.
Obviously, its way too early for predictions.  
Big Blue Blogger : 7/18/2016 2:36 pm : link
In terms of value at his draft position, he's much closer to Goff, who was a middle-round prospect drafted in the fifth. Goodson is a middle-round prospect selected early in the fourth. Dillard was a marginally-draftable prospect taken at #115, probably 100 picks before his consensus value.

Goodson's college resume - like Dillard's - is a bit thin, but he finished strongly.

RE: RE: RE: PFF had an article about Goff headlined  
Mason : 7/18/2016 4:08 pm : link
In comment 13036672 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13036653 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


In comment 13036621 shockeyisthebest8056 said:


Quote:


"Goff exploded as a run defender in 2010. He had the same number of defensive stops (37) as Bart Scott, our top ranked run-stopping inside linebacker, despite playing almost 200 fewer snaps. He also made more stops per tackle than studs like Patrick Willis and Brian Urlacher and missed just two tackles on the year. A particular highlight was an impressive Week 2 performance against Indianapolis where he logged five stops on seven tackles and earned a +3.0 Run D grade. He put on an equally strong display against Chicago two weeks later. His +14.5 rating for the year had him ranked as the ninth best inside linebacker against the run."

What a fucking shame. Jonathan Goff - ( New Window )



Goff was turning into a very good MLB. His injury was such a shame. If he didn't get hurt, IMO he would have been a mainstay at MLB for a long time. He could have made a big difference.



I don't recall perceiving Goff as such a good MLB. He was fine in my imo, but didn't realize he had such good stats as noted by PFF. Maybe he was going to be a mainstay.

Just seems like anyone quoting MLB play with Willis & Urlacher and then including Goff is a bit odd...


Pierce was told by Coughlin that Goff was going to replace him while he was still on the team. Many wanted Pierce benched for Goff. Come on guys the 2009 season wasn't that long ago.
Goff didn't play long enough to become well known even to Giants fans  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/18/2016 4:12 pm : link
The PFF data is taken on a small sample, don't obsess over the names. They're just providing information. Goff did as well as some of the best players in the league in one specific stat for the basically cup of coffee he was in the league. No one was placing him in that caliber of player.
Klaatu  
Boy Cord : 7/18/2016 4:25 pm : link
Can you give us a little more hope than that, say Antonio Pierce?
Comparing to Goff,  
Doomster : 7/18/2016 6:39 pm : link
is indeed, setting the bar low.....one season.....made some plays, but nothing special....too may times we assume guys that were injured, would have become all pro's, like the safety from LSU, who never played a down...
Goff was regularly shat on by BBI because of  
BlueLou : 7/18/2016 7:36 pm : link
1) his injury
2) his draft status (I mean he was selected after the real LB turd of that draft, Bryan Kehl, who the Giants were dumb enough to trade up for)
3) he had a fairly poor or mediocre rap among the usual draft pundits as having "stiff hips"

I looked at as much tape of Goff and Kehl as I could that draft partly because the two put up virtually identical #s across the board at the combine (I watched after the Giants picked both) and liked Goff considerably more.

He was a two time captain at Vandy at IIRC 1st team all ACC at least once.

So I watched Goff pretty carefully once he earned the starting role and the folks here knocking him simply don't know how to watch LB play. But that was easily majority opinion back then among the dullards here incapable of watching trench play.

I had no idea about that PFF report but it backs up what I saw from him. He was slower at developing his pass defense ability so I think that turned some folks off on him too. But who the duck covers Jason Witten well?

I know there is nothI got going on at the  
joeinpa : 7/18/2016 7:42 pm : link
Moment for a football site to chat about. But this thread like a few others is even difficult to offer an opinion about. Will have to wait and see him play.
RE: Goff was regularly shat on by BBI because of  
David in LA : 7/18/2016 7:53 pm : link
In comment 13037172 BlueLou said:
Quote:
1) his injury
2) his draft status (I mean he was selected after the real LB turd of that draft, Bryan Kehl, who the Giants were dumb enough to trade up for)
3) he had a fairly poor or mediocre rap among the usual draft pundits as having "stiff hips"

I looked at as much tape of Goff and Kehl as I could that draft partly because the two put up virtually identical #s across the board at the combine (I watched after the Giants picked both) and liked Goff considerably more.

He was a two time captain at Vandy at IIRC 1st team all ACC at least once.

So I watched Goff pretty carefully once he earned the starting role and the folks here knocking him simply don't know how to watch LB play. But that was easily majority opinion back then among the dullards here incapable of watching trench play.

I had no idea about that PFF report but it backs up what I saw from him. He was slower at developing his pass defense ability so I think that turned some folks off on him too. But who the duck covers Jason Witten well?


I thought Goff looked REALLY good before the injury gods decided to intervene. He would have been a solid starter had he not gotten hurt, I don't understand where clowns like Doomster chime in and say that's setting the bar low. Then again, Doomster thinks that Cooper Taylor not being released yet is an indicator of how desperate our team is, so he probably doesn't know what he's really talking about.
Goff was on his way to becoming a really solid MIKE.  
arcarsenal : 7/18/2016 7:58 pm : link
He impressed me a lot and was a big part of that 2010 defense. If that's what Goodson becomes with the arrow pointed up, I would sign up for that right now.
Goff became a classic 2-down LB  
pjcas18 : 7/18/2016 8:21 pm : link
- a good one on those two downs, but still a significant liability on passing downs I don't care how much tape anyone watched if they claim to have seen something different they weren't watching tape they were watching a youtube highlight reel. It would be nice if Goodson had the potential to not have to leave the field on passing downs. Hence the higher bar comments.

However, being a 5th round pick with a reputation for lacking athleticism it's not likely Goodson ever excels in coverage either, unless he's one of those defies logic, but somehow is always in position even though he shouldn't be fast enough to be type LB"s and as a 5th round pick even a 2-down LB of Goff's quality would be fine.

But if we're dreaming on something I don't see the reason for the vitriol for dreaming on more than Goff.
Really  
AcidTest : 7/18/2016 9:19 pm : link
hope he has an impact this year.
RE: Really  
SGMen : 7/18/2016 9:30 pm : link
In comment 13037255 AcidTest said:
Quote:
hope he has an impact this year.
Maybe on special teams. I wonder if the Giants make him learn SLB and MLB? He may not be active on game days if just MLB and therefore won't even play specials unless there is an injury.

K. Robinson and Brinkley are both ahead of him and you aren't going to have 3 pure MLB's active on game day.
Hmmmmmmm.......  
Doomster : 7/18/2016 9:55 pm : link
RE: Goff was regularly shat on by BBI because of
David in LA : 7:53 pm : link : reply

I thought Goff looked REALLY good before the injury gods decided to intervene. He would have been a solid starter had he not gotten hurt, I don't understand where clowns like Doomster chime in and say that's setting the bar low.

I guess what you think REALLY GOOD is, is not REALLY good....and your crystal ball is better than everyone else's...clown? I am just a sports fan with an opinion, you freakin' idiot...

Then again, Doomster thinks that Cooper Taylor not being released yet is an indicator of how desperate our team is, so he probably doesn't know what he's really talking about.

I know what I'm talking about....apparently, you don't agree...that's what message boards are all about.....Taylor? Herz? why are they even on this team? My freakin' opinion...sorry it doesn't agree with yours....

Over the years, many have criticized moi, because I didn't have my blue tints on, and told it like it was....many couldn't handle the fact that I called certain players bad, and that this team was in a rebuilding process, and that process was being mishandled by Reese and Co.

I certainly haven't been right about everything, if I was Reese would be out of a job......and while you may disagree with me, I have been right a lot more than I have been wrong....

Well now, this team has turned the corner, and I think they win the division.....too bad you guys don't have the balls to attack what I say, instead of just attacking the avatar...
Here's his NFL combine ...  
Manny in CA : 7/18/2016 10:16 pm : link

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap3000000644753/2016-Combine-workout-B-J-Goodson

Not fast but very agile and coordinated; had excellent major college stats (Clemson)
RE: Goodson & Giants Draft Refresher From Dave-Te  
chopperhatch : 7/19/2016 2:59 am : link
In comment 13036455 nflscouting said:
Quote:
Hey guys,
here is what we had on Goodson during his selection. He's more a David Harris type, but also has ST & OLB experience. Also, a link to all their draft choices;
Goodson article & scouting report;
http://nfldraftreport.sportsblog.com/posts/16948066/the-nfl-draft-report-s--final-analysis--series---giants-hope-later-bloomer-b-j--goodson-can-continue-his-emergence.html

The draft pick link;
http://nfldraftreport.sportsblog.com/posts/17006011/the-nfl-draft-report-s--final-analys--series---a-look-back-at-the-new-york-giants-2016-draft-class.html?_ga=1.169401761.1451292741.1468699930


I would take David Harris in a fucking nanosecond! I dont know if he is QUITE as physical as Harris. But he lookslike he can cover a little bit, he lookslike a slower London Fletcher the way he plays.

And I am still very surprised that many here dont believe he'll be in contention for the starting gig. He looks very strong to me as a player.
RE: Goff became a classic 2-down LB  
BlueLou : 7/19/2016 3:45 am : link
In comment 13037208 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
- a good one on those two downs, but still a significant liability on passing downs I don't care how much tape anyone watched if they claim to have seen something different they weren't watching tape they were watching a youtube highlight reel. It would be nice if Goodson had the potential to not have to leave the field on passing downs. Hence the higher bar comments.

However, being a 5th round pick with a reputation for lacking athleticism it's not likely Goodson ever excels in coverage either, unless he's one of those defies logic, but somehow is always in position even though he shouldn't be fast enough to be type LB"s and as a 5th round pick even a 2-down LB of Goff's quality would be fine.

But if we're dreaming on something I don't see the reason for the vitriol for dreaming on more than Goff.


PJ I was a big Goff fan so I watched him carefully as much as possible. Actually it's those who diss him who based their opinions on highlight reel plays vs every down play.

When watching him my frame of comparison was Pierce during his last two seasons, when he could no longer cover nor could get to the edge on running plays. But what people remember of Pierce was his amazing stop on the screen pass vs Green Bay.

Goff got better and better in pass coverage as the year wore on during his ONLY season as starting Mike. He was overall MUCH more effective than Pierce defending both running plays and passing plays. But IIRC, he got NOTICED on a particular passing play whete he was beat for a long gain by a TE or FB up the seam. In fact, he had pretty good position on the play and was fast enough to run with almost any TE and many RBs, but he got beat despite having good position. Maybe more than once, can't say I remember that perfectly. But compared to AP in coverage... hell Pierce was getting beat like a drum in pass coverage by the end of his career, so much so I guess it was harder to fault him because he wasn't even in the frame of the TV screen with the guys catching balls in his zone....

As for being a "2 down Mike" hell they all are nowadays with very, very few exceptions like Kuechly. If you get the job done on downs 1 & 2, you're in a nickle or dime anyway in 3rd down.
RE: Here's his NFL combine ...  
David in LA : 7/19/2016 4:40 am : link
In comment 13037323 Manny in CA said:
Quote:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap3000000644753/2016-Combine-workout-B-J-Goodson

Not fast but very agile and coordinated; had excellent major college stats (Clemson)


He played at Vanderbilt. Your point still remains that he played against top notch competition in college. Jonathan Goff and Adam Koets were 2 late round gems whose careers were cut way too short.
Pssst....Doomster  
Modus Operandi : 7/19/2016 4:56 am : link
This here site...it doesn't have...avatars. So, stfu, k?
RE: RE: Here's his NFL combine ...  
BlueLou : 7/19/2016 5:11 am : link
In comment 13037437 David in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 13037323 Manny in CA said:


Quote:



http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap3000000644753/2016-Combine-workout-B-J-Goodson

Not fast but very agile and coordinated; had excellent major college stats (Clemson)



He played at Vanderbilt. Your point still remains that he played against top notch competition in college. Jonathan Goff and Adam Koets were 2 late round gems whose careers were cut way too short.


David Manny linked Goodson's combine who indeed played at Clemson. Goff played for Vandy...
Klaatu, can you post a series of these to give Gidie some down time?  
BlueLou : 7/19/2016 6:52 am : link
Perkins: Bradshaw or Dayne?
Adams: Boss or Robinson?
Thompson: Phillips or Michael Johnson?

And my personal favorite,

Shepard: Beckham or Jernigan?

Looking forward...
When I saw the thread title, I thought of Phyllis Diller  
Ira : 7/19/2016 8:43 am : link
.
RE: RE: Goff became a classic 2-down LB  
pjcas18 : 7/19/2016 8:46 am : link
In comment 13037432 BlueLou said:
Quote:
In comment 13037208 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


- a good one on those two downs, but still a significant liability on passing downs I don't care how much tape anyone watched if they claim to have seen something different they weren't watching tape they were watching a youtube highlight reel. It would be nice if Goodson had the potential to not have to leave the field on passing downs. Hence the higher bar comments.

However, being a 5th round pick with a reputation for lacking athleticism it's not likely Goodson ever excels in coverage either, unless he's one of those defies logic, but somehow is always in position even though he shouldn't be fast enough to be type LB"s and as a 5th round pick even a 2-down LB of Goff's quality would be fine.

But if we're dreaming on something I don't see the reason for the vitriol for dreaming on more than Goff.



PJ I was a big Goff fan so I watched him carefully as much as possible. Actually it's those who diss him who based their opinions on highlight reel plays vs every down play.

When watching him my frame of comparison was Pierce during his last two seasons, when he could no longer cover nor could get to the edge on running plays. But what people remember of Pierce was his amazing stop on the screen pass vs Green Bay.

Goff got better and better in pass coverage as the year wore on during his ONLY season as starting Mike. He was overall MUCH more effective than Pierce defending both running plays and passing plays. But IIRC, he got NOTICED on a particular passing play whete he was beat for a long gain by a TE or FB up the seam. In fact, he had pretty good position on the play and was fast enough to run with almost any TE and many RBs, but he got beat despite having good position. Maybe more than once, can't say I remember that perfectly. But compared to AP in coverage... hell Pierce was getting beat like a drum in pass coverage by the end of his career, so much so I guess it was harder to fault him because he wasn't even in the frame of the TV screen with the guys catching balls in his zone....

As for being a "2 down Mike" hell they all are nowadays with very, very few exceptions like Kuechly. If you get the job done on downs 1 & 2, you're in a nickle or dime anyway in 3rd down.


The thing I recall most about Goff other than his run-stopping which was great was they couldn't mention him without also mentioning he had a degree in mechanical engineering.

The Giants went to the 3 safety look so often with Grant (after Pierce was no longer on the team) due primarily to Goff. His liabilities in the passing game weren't just "who can cover Jason Witten?", they were Herzlich-esque. Maybe he improved, but the Giants went to great lengths to not put him in that position.

and I get many (most) MIKEs are two-down guys today, they're not all, the Patriots always seem to find them (Hightower, Collins, etc.), but when they don't - a la Brandon Spikes - the guy gets killed for being a 2-down linebacker.

In either case, as I mentioned if Goodson becomes an injured Goff there should be no complaints, especially as a 5th round pick, but if we're going to dream on skills and comparison why not aim higher, even if somewhat unrealistic.

I didn't have any animosity toward Goff when I suggested it and I still don't it's just hoping for better. Hopefully,even if that's not realistic for Goodson it explains my thought process.
Thread is all over the board with its opinions (shocking, huh?)  
Jimmy Googs : 7/19/2016 8:57 am : link
Couple of points of clarification...

- Just because Goff was better than an aged-Pierce doesn't mean that he was very good
- And when you say Goff was a very good MLB, is that comparing him to the other MLB choices on the Giants? Because I think its a stretch (a big stretch) to say he was a very good MLB in the NFL
- Hoping Goodson is better than Goff is not a dig on Goff
- Lastly, Phyllis Diller was clearly better than Phillip Dillard
Googs  
Johnny5 : 7/19/2016 10:18 am : link
By most accounts Jon Goff was poised to have a pretty good career at MLB for the NY Giants. He was always a good aggressive run stopper but he was really coming into his own before the ACL injury, especially in commanding the defense and becoming more comfortable in coverage. Obviously a lot of coulda/woulda/shoulda inthere because his time was cut short... but a lot of people (including me... lol) were really disappointed when he tore that ACL.
RE: Klaatu, can you post a series of these to give Gidie some down time?  
Klaatu : 7/19/2016 11:00 am : link
In comment 13037440 BlueLou said:
Quote:
Perkins: Bradshaw or Dayne?
Adams: Boss or Robinson?
Thompson: Phillips or Michael Johnson?

And my personal favorite,

Shepard: Beckham or Jernigan?

Looking forward...


Right now I'm working on you, Robert Mondavi, or Paul Masson.
True,  
Doomster : 7/19/2016 11:42 am : link
Pssst....Doomster
Modus Operandi : 4:56 am : link : reply
This here site...it doesn't have...avatars. So, stfu, k?


Poor choice of wording on my part......but if I did, stfu, you would have nothing to post about, K?
RE: RE: Here's his NFL combine ...  
Carson53 : 7/19/2016 11:50 am : link
In comment 13037437 David in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 13037323 Manny in CA said:


Quote:



http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap3000000644753/2016-Combine-workout-B-J-Goodson

Not fast but very agile and coordinated; had excellent major college stats (Clemson)



He played at Vanderbilt. Your point still remains that he played against top notch competition in college. Jonathan Goff and Adam Koets were 2 late round gems whose careers were cut way too short.



Adam Koets was a late round gem, say what?
The only late round gem they have had around these parts
is somebody named Bradshaw!
Byron Hunt or Andy Headen...  
sober297 : 7/19/2016 8:29 pm : link
I'll be impressed if Goodson turned into one of these guys.
Goodson: The next Great NYGiants LB  
ROBUSTELLI81 : 7/20/2016 9:48 am : link
Dillard or Goff, not really, neither did much, so why equate Goodson at such a low level, instead put him in a comparative class with Giant's great LBs. So the real ?, does Goodson have the tools to be the next Carson, or Banks, leaving LT in a class apart.

Based on his LB performance at Clemson, and his cameo during OTAs Goodson has all the requisite tools to dominate at Mike. Right size, no lightweight and built like a brick shithouse, quick twitch first step combined with sound instincts, leadership qualities, and no slouch in coverage. Does Harry Carson have a secret son? Jesting aside there is a lot in common, and he seems to have Carl Banks football analytical mind, and I don't mean in the TV studio but in split second playing field adjustments.

Prediction: the Giants LB pantheon: Huff / Svare / Van Pelt / Carson / Taylor / Banks / Johnson / Armstead / Perkins / Goodson.
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