What is our biggest hole on defense?

particularly ones with pass coverage and/or pass rush skills.

Spare me the "nobody has LBs that can cover" because teams are clearly more talented than the Giants at this...

we still don't have a captain of the ship. Brinkley is a career backup and Keenan Robinson has never been a full-time starter in a 43. Kennard is a 3rd down MLB.

having a situational MLB is never good

FS/SS

He played almost exclusively SS in college, that's where the projections come in. Can he be a ballhawk while also maintaining deep responsibility?

Maybe I don't read reviews and comments as thoroughly as many of you but this is the first I have heard that Thompson might be more suited to SS than FS.

Kind of ruined my day.

I guess I need to go back and read ALL the Giant draft reviews.

All in question for now. SS needs those traits established. He's also built like a free, thin safeties don't last in the box.

Here's the full report, but this is the notable quote:

Quote:

With his instincts, few quarterbacks are going to be able to surprise him on the field. It is his ability to quickly react to the run or pass that might see him use his power and size better as a strong safety at the next level. Still, as a free safety, he shows a good understanding for the game, evident by his ability to hold opposing receivers to just 2.92 yards per pass attempt last season.

Anyway, from your OP:

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I believe B. Jackson has the most pure FS talent, to play middle fielder, but he is coming off an ACL and has never played FS for a full season in the NFL.

Are you serious? Bennett Jackson has never played FS at all, on any level. He's also coming off his second torn ACL. He hasn't done a damned thing in two years. Maybe if he had, the Giants wouldn't have spent another 5th Round pick on Safety Mykkele Thompson in 2015, or a 3rd Round pick on Safety Darian Thompson in 2016. I just don't get the love for Jackson (especially from Pat Traina), a guy whose claim to fame is that he was a good special teams player in college three years ago.

In comment 13037508 Ivan15 said:

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Maybe I don't read reviews and comments as thoroughly as many of you but this is the first I have heard that Thompson might be more suited to SS than FS. Kind of ruined my day. I guess I need to go back and read ALL the Giant draft reviews.

Ivan, start here. Not a draft review, but a pre-draft assessment of Thompson from a Jags blogger (with video clips).

Here's the thing with Thompson. After having an excellent week at the Senior Bowl, where he drew all kinds of praise and was named the North's Outstanding Player, he did not run well at the Combine (it was reported afterwards that he was sick. He ran much better at his Pro Day). For many pundits, Slow = SS. His draft stock dropped like a stone after the Combine, and even some of the more reasonable pundits, like Lance Zierlein at NFL.com, relegated him to an in-the-box role.

In comment 13037427 chopperhatch said:

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In comment 13037341 SGMen said: Quote: In comment 13037337 Tuckrule said: Quote: He's more of a free safety. He had a lot of picks in college so he shows he can play a little center field. I expect him to win the starting job A poster whose judgment I trust (nflscouting) wrote something to the effect that D. Thompson would be better "in the box" and I recall reading draft day reports saying the same. That doesn't mean he couldn't play mid-fielder but it may not be where he is best suited. You're mistaken...unless there was another report where Dave Te contradicted himself. Here is the stuff on Thompson from his Gian5s draft review: Going into the offseason following the disappointing 2014 season, the Giants parted ways with super bowl champion safety Antrel Rolle and his departure left a gap that was certainly not filled by anyone in particular. Landon Collins, last year’s first round selection struggled playing the free safety spot, which he occupied by necessity after the injuries to safeties Bennett Jackson and Nat Berhe during training camp. Collins' natural position is at strong safety where he could play in the box and deal out punishing hits to the opposition. Darian Thompson will compete for one of the starting safety spots from day one as his competition (Jackson, Berhe) is just as inexperienced as him. His ball hawking skills while playing for the Broncos landed him ninteen interceptions over the course of his collegiate career, a feat that the Giants certainly took notice of. With his, at times, questionable coverage skills however, receivers frequently beat him deep in college when he gambled and did not produce a pass breakup or interception. My Grade: C+ Clearly one of the biggest needs for the Giants is at free safety but I'm not entirely sure Darian Thompson will fill that need, at least in the short run. His ability to produce turnovers are well documented but any expectation of him being excelling right away deep safety opposite Landon Collins should be quelled because he simply allowed too many receivers get behind him while playing on the blue turf of Boise State. It is very possible he wins the starting free safety job that is up for grabs, but Giants fans should expect to see him get beat if he does not come away with an interception because he does not possess the speed to make up for bad roll of the dice. He certainly has room to improve in that area. Here is from the same guy who graded the Giants offseason: Close © 2016 The Sports Ticker Advertise Here Flag MenuSubscribe To Blog image description image description Insights into all things football, baseball, and basketball NFC East NFL Offseason Grades: New York Giants image description TYLER DAVIS MAY 8, 2016 Follow Tyler ​​ William Hauser-USA TODAY Sports ​​Free Agency ​ Additions: CB Janoris Jenkins, DT Damon Harrison, DE Olivier Vernon ​The Giants went on a spending spree this offseason. The GM finally decided to spend some money, and they did it in the exact right places. Harrison will be a force in the center of this defense as he eats up double teams. He will also take pressure off of Jason Pierre-Paul, Olivier Vernon, and Jonathan Hankins. This will be a line that we are used to seeing in New York. They will dminate the point of attack. Jenkins will be able to line up opposite of Dominique Rogers-Cromartie and shut down half the field. They will be an elite duo in the secondary. Vernon may have been overpaid, but he is a solid end that will look even better with the help of the other elite players on the line. He will face few double teams and has the skill and strength to be very effective on every down. OFFSEASON GRADE: A- ​​NFL Draft​ RD 1: CB Eli Apple, Ohio State RD 2: WR Sterling Shepard, Oklahoma RD 3: FS Darian Thompson, Boise State RD 4: LB BJ Goodson, Clemson RD 5: HB Paul Perkins, UCLA RD 6: TE Jerrell Adams, South Carolina The Giants also managed a fair haul in the draft to help their team. The pick of Eli Apple is curious as he is an out side corner, as are Jenkins and Rogers-Ceomartie. However they could develop him into the slot corner in camp as he is quick and has strong hands off the snap. His technique will fit in well in this secondary. In the second round, the Giants stole a receiver with the potential to be a star. Shepard will fit right into the slot receiver role of this offense and give Eli Manning a reliable option other than Odell Beckham Jr. If Victor Cruz can get back to his old form, then the Giants will have a terror of a receiving trio to compliment Eli Manning. They followed this with two picks to further bolster the defensive side of the ball. Thompson can come in and play free safety, which will allow Landon Collins to move to strong safety where he is better suited. Thompson is able to play center field and has solid cover skills. After some coaching up, he will be great. BJ Goodson will bring a thumping presence to this defense that it has missed in its line backing corps. I think we might be better than we thought at FS. With Landon governing the box and good corners, im positive about this group.

Very nice response. Assuming he is healthy after the ACL injury, I think Bennett Jackson ends up our opening day starter at FS with D. Thompson getting some snaps out there every game as well. B. Jackson brings some experience as he has been in the NFL 3 years and he is more of a pure cover guy. I just don't want a rookie who lacks FS makeup speed out there game 1 against Dallas. Sorry.

I think we'll have four safeties active on game day due to special teams and dime defense roles. I believe as of right now based on what I've read and of course health that the "in the box" strong safety will definitely be L. Collins and he will excel in that role. I also think L. Collins will be used as a blitzer as Spags will use our improved speed to do what must be done in today's NFL: apply pressure on the QB.

As noted, I now believe B. Jackson becomes the FS with rookie D. Thompson behind him learning and getting at least some snaps in dime sets.

I also truly believe that S N. Behre will be active on game days and also get some defensive snaps. This kid can play and hit.

I'm not sure if our injured from last year recover, Mykele with the achilles and C. Taylor with his surgery. Will they be able to compete? Will we carry five safeties should say B. Jackson be considered a nickel corner as well?

There are a lot of questions which will be answered in camp. Health, injuries and development will play a big role in determining how things pan out. I still have an idea in my mind that if a solid veteran was being waved for trade bait early in camp due to salary and young guys behind him would the Giants make a trade? Not so sure they would. We have a mix of bodies and talent, mostly "in the box" safeties, and hey who is to say we don't trade that way?

Lastly, I do believe LB Goodson learns this year. He is a pure MLB but I think we play him at both MLB and SLB this year to make him more versatile and justify his being active on game days.

On paper, I really like this draft. It seems like we took guys who are of good character, with upside (Apple, Sheppard, Thompson, Perkins, Goodson, Adams) who produced in college. I'm looking forward to the camp reports; pre-season games; evaluations; and of course game 1 in Dallas.

I honestly believe this offense will be extremely efficient if healthy. We will improve our run game and redzone TD efficiency. Dallas's defense is not very good, at least on paper and based on what ESPN said, so we should score on them pretty good. I think our DL and corners will stack up well against Dallas's offense. S L. Collins will keep Elliott in check too as I think he'll be keying on him.

This team has finally drafted well, I believe, since 2014. Injuries have been a big factor so get healthy, stay healthy and with year #3 of the offense and year #2 of the defense lets excel and attack.

Giants 38-31 over Dallas opening day! Woot Woot!

In comment 13037502 area junc said:

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FS/SS He played almost exclusively SS in college, that's where the projections come in. Can he be a ballhawk while also maintaining deep responsibility?

Yeeaahh...that's how he broke the record for interceptions - playing almost exclusively in-the-box. Great post.

Whether he succeeds or not it's at FS he will have his chance. FS is certainly the position with the biggest questions. No one we have has NFL game experience at that spot. Every other spot (like LB) at least has someone with an NFL resume.

-DL depth especially at DT
-Pass rushing LB's (i.e. those who can blitz well)
-Slot corner (will Jenkins just do this on 3 CB sets? Apple unproven there)
-FS (I think one of them will work out but obviously a lot of questions).

he played almost exclusively SS in college. that is a fact. do your homework

In comment 13037598 kash94 said:

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-DL depth especially at DT -Pass rushing LB's (i.e. those who can blitz well) -Slot corner (will Jenkins just do this on 3 CB sets? Apple unproven there) -FS (I think one of them will work out but obviously a lot of questions).

Our only backup DT of any merit is Bromley and he has never started so yes our depth is questionable.

I believe CB Jenkins plays the slot all year with Apple on the outside. In today's NFL, 3 corners are out there maybe 85% of the time as teams seem to run 3 WR sets due to passing rules (just my guess, not any official stat). I know that Apple will also be learning the slot in camp along with Wade (I believe he's our #4 corner) and possibly B. Jackson who will likely win the FS job if healthy.

I do believe LB Kennard, LB Robinson can blitz. Kennard has flashed when healthy. LB Robinson is fast and also flashed when healthy. The problem is we are never healthy! We lack depth of merit at LB. I mean, would anyone be shocked if this year Goodson ended up winning the backup MLB role behind Robinson? Brinkley becomes a last second cut who is told to stay in shape? We just lack depth of talent. But I do think the starters have speed and ability behind a good DL.

Look for LB J Thomas to look better behind a DL that can handle blockers and stop the run better. He is more of a sideline to sideline guy. Robinson can cover and we haven't had a MLB that does that well in a long time. Kennard just has to stay healthy.

If you ask me, I still think our biggest hole overall is our lack of health and lack of PROVEN depth. We have to hope we get healthy, stay healthy and that the young guys are in fact PLAYERS. If that happens, this defense will go from 32nd in the league (worst) to serviceable at least.

And remember, I still think Reese is looking around for veteran depth as we have money. Will anyone shake loose? Maybe. I'm not counting on it but if a veteran RT, FS, DT, LB were being made available and the price was right I wouldn't be shocked if Reese pulled the trigger. It would have to be early in camp I'd think. If a veteran is an early cut due to the numbers game I'm sure Reese would look as well. But as of right now, in truth, I think we will be going with who we have.

The starters aren't all that bad. They just have to stay healthy. No team in our division is perfect so we have as good a chance as anyone. I mean, Washington isn't as good as their 9-7 record of last year when you consider every good team crushed them. Dallas has the division's best offense, I believe, but only if Romo stays healthy and lets face it at 36 with surgeries galore I'm not so sure he stands 16 games anymore..

Dallas got Elliott, if you listen to Jerry Jones interview on ESPN, in large part because he can do all 3 phases: protect Romo, run and catch. Jones fell in love with Elliott for that reason. But is Elliott a product of a great team or did he make the team great? That remains to be seen.

I've done my homework on you, and the conclusion was "Bullshit Artist."

Thompson played all over the place at Boise State, but was primarily a FS, which is why places like Draft Scout have him listed as a FS.

In comment 13037639 Klaatu said:

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I've done my homework on you, and the conclusion was "Bullshit Artist." Thompson played all over the place at Boise State, but was primarily a FS, which is why places like Draft Scout have him listed as a FS.

Yes, if you read the scouting reports on Thompson he did play "safety" all over and is a ball hawk but the reports also admit he lacks true make up speed and did let guys get behind him. He has a lot to learn still, as all rookies do.

I'd be worried if he was our opening day starter against Dallas due to inexperience and speed. Look at L. Collins last year, horrible in pass coverage as a FS because of inexperience. I'd prefer veteran B. Jackson and his speed, let Thompson learn. I think we'll mix up four safeties on game day due to dime defenses and special teams ability.

In comment 13037302 gidiefor said:

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I think the biggest hole on defense is depth right now --

This. I would say we don't know if Safety is a hole yet... it is TBD

In comment 13037651 SGMen said:

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In comment 13037639 Klaatu said: Quote: I've done my homework on you, and the conclusion was "Bullshit Artist." Thompson played all over the place at Boise State, but was primarily a FS, which is why places like Draft Scout have him listed as a FS. Yes, if you read the scouting reports on Thompson he did play "safety" all over and is a ball hawk but the reports also admit he lacks true make up speed and did let guys get behind him. He has a lot to learn still, as all rookies do. I'd be worried if he was our opening day starter against Dallas due to inexperience and speed. Look at L. Collins last year, horrible in pass coverage as a FS because of inexperience. I'd prefer veteran B. Jackson and his speed, let Thompson learn. I think we'll mix up four safeties on game day due to dime defenses and special teams ability.

You're worried about Darian Thompson but you're all for Bennett Jackson. I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous, and the comparison to Landon Collins is ridiculous, too.

In comment 13037637 SGMen said:

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In comment 13037598 kash94 said: Quote: -DL depth especially at DT -Pass rushing LB's (i.e. those who can blitz well) -Slot corner (will Jenkins just do this on 3 CB sets? Apple unproven there) -FS (I think one of them will work out but obviously a lot of questions). Our only backup DT of any merit is Bromley and he has never started so yes our depth is questionable. I believe CB Jenkins plays the slot all year with Apple on the outside. In today's NFL, 3 corners are out there maybe 85% of the time as teams seem to run 3 WR sets due to passing rules (just my guess, not any official stat). I know that Apple will also be learning the slot in camp along with Wade (I believe he's our #4 corner) and possibly B. Jackson who will likely win the FS job if healthy. I do believe LB Kennard, LB Robinson can blitz. Kennard has flashed when healthy. LB Robinson is fast and also flashed when healthy. The problem is we are never healthy! We lack depth of merit at LB. I mean, would anyone be shocked if this year Goodson ended up winning the backup MLB role behind Robinson? Brinkley becomes a last second cut who is told to stay in shape? We just lack depth of talent. But I do think the starters have speed and ability behind a good DL. Look for LB J Thomas to look better behind a DL that can handle blockers and stop the run better. He is more of a sideline to sideline guy. Robinson can cover and we haven't had a MLB that does that well in a long time. Kennard just has to stay healthy. If you ask me, I still think our biggest hole overall is our lack of health and lack of PROVEN depth. We have to hope we get healthy, stay healthy and that the young guys are in fact PLAYERS. If that happens, this defense will go from 32nd in the league (worst) to serviceable at least. And remember, I still think Reese is looking around for veteran depth as we have money. Will anyone shake loose? Maybe. I'm not counting on it but if a veteran RT, FS, DT, LB were being made available and the price was right I wouldn't be shocked if Reese pulled the trigger. It would have to be early in camp I'd think. If a veteran is an early cut due to the numbers game I'm sure Reese would look as well. But as of right now, in truth, I think we will be going with who we have. The starters aren't all that bad. They just have to stay healthy. No team in our division is perfect so we have as good a chance as anyone. I mean, Washington isn't as good as their 9-7 record of last year when you consider every good team crushed them. Dallas has the division's best offense, I believe, but only if Romo stays healthy and lets face it at 36 with surgeries galore I'm not so sure he stands 16 games anymore.. Dallas got Elliott, if you listen to Jerry Jones interview on ESPN, in large part because he can do all 3 phases: protect Romo, run and catch. Jones fell in love with Elliott for that reason. But is Elliott a product of a great team or did he make the team great? That remains to be seen.

Good summary - completely agree. I agree with what some said above that it's impossible to have good depth when you're paying franchise QB money in this day and age but we tend to USE and RELY on our depth more than other teams due to injuries.

Guys like Owa, Bromley, Wynn, etc are fine backups on most teams but the issue is players like them have basically been our starters due to injuries past few years.

Is one of our major problems because there could be three guys returning that played in the same position last year. Hankins, Kennard and DRC right now appear to have locks on the same position they played last year everyone else may shift positions or be replaced. That's not a good formula for success in the first year of rebuilding a defense especially one that set new teams standards for ineptitude. We are all hoping the moves made or still to be made will help correct some of the problems however to expect this defense to jell overnight seems very foolish. The talent level has improved for sure but it will take time and good health for these players to gain the ability to perform as a good unit.

In comment 13037686 Dragon said:

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Is one of our major problems because there could be three guys returning that played in the same position last year. Hankins, Kennard and DRC right now appear to have locks on the same position they played last year everyone else may shift positions or be replaced. That's not a good formula for success in the first year of rebuilding a defense especially one that set new teams standards for ineptitude. We are all hoping the moves made or still to be made will help correct some of the problems however to expect this defense to jell overnight seems very foolish. The talent level has improved for sure but it will take time and good health for these players to gain the ability to perform as a good unit.

Dragon, I could not agree more. You'll notice on some of my posts here that I'm leery of playing a rookie opening day simply because we have so many changes on defense I'm afraid of overall confusion. It is bad enough we had a total and necessary "makeover" this off-season in the roster, but starting rookies would be a mistake I think unless injuries make it a necessity.

For early season, we just have to hope that the DL holds its own. The key to this defense is the DL. It is a veteran group at least and the depth (Owa, Bromley and Wynn) was here last year. I expect we will struggle early.

The good news is that I do truly believe that our offense will be scoring and keeping us in games. We just have to stay healthy through camp on both sides of the ball. The OL and DL tends to play better with continuity so getting through camp without any major dings will be key.

Lastly, I think our special teams will keep us in games too. I love D. Harris and the coverage units plus punting / kicking should be well above average. Lets hope they really excel early in the year to give us an advantage. We just have to win by 1 point every game!

In comment 13037686 Dragon said:

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Is one of our major problems because there could be three guys returning that played in the same position last year. Hankins, Kennard and DRC right now appear to have locks on the same position they played last year everyone else may shift positions or be replaced. That's not a good formula for success in the first year of rebuilding a defense especially one that set new teams standards for ineptitude. We are all hoping the moves made or still to be made will help correct some of the problems however to expect this defense to jell overnight seems very foolish. The talent level has improved for sure but it will take time and good health for these players to gain the ability to perform as a good unit.

I disagree. Last year's defense was historically bad, and replacing underachieving or oft-injured players was paramount this offseason. While it may take time to gel, the talent level has increased dramatically, and that should pay big dividends down the road. If that's not a "good formula for success," I don't know what is.

And depth at CB.

a rash of injuries that decimates a particular unit. Just one season of relative health would really be welcome.

The same thing it has been for the last 4 seasons.....the middle of the defense.....we have been killed by TE's over the middle, RB's out of the backfield, and we have been slanted to death.....

We have better players.....like I said before, these guys need time to work together and get their communication skills on the same level, and maybe that hole will shrink....

What has Bennett Jackson done to deserve the starting spot? Anyone? Beuller?

Meanwhile, we have D. Thompson who has been vocal in the secondary, lining players up in only his first offseason, flying around the field, making plays that has earned his playing time over the other incumbent safeties, all of which have not been able to either show enough to deserve to start, stay healthy enough to start, or a combination of the two. How many games has Jackson even played in so far in his career? They aren't going to take playing time away from someone who has been turning heads this far for someone who, if you take his injuries into consideration, has barely played. Collins and Thompson will start, and we will probably be seeing the duo back there for awhile.

Imp, our biggest question mark is at LB. Ideally, Robinson, Sheppard, and Kennard are the starters. I like the potential of that group, but I'm still unsure. I don't know enough about Sheppard and Robinson to say whether or not they can handle full time starting gigs, and Robinson has had injury issues in his career. Kennard, as we have seen, has great potential, but he too has injury concerns. JT Thomas, Casillas, and Brinkley are adequate backups, but I don't want them starting. If those first 3 I mentioned can stay healthy, it will go a long way towards improving our defense.

In comment 13037686 Dragon said:

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Is one of our major problems because there could be three guys returning that played in the same position last year. Hankins, Kennard and DRC right now appear to have locks on the same position they played last year...

This isn't true of Hankins. He's now paying the 3-tech not the 1-tech as Harrison is now playing that spot. Also, Kennard and DRC have no real competition at SAM and LCB so them staying put is a good thing.

In comment 13037772 Doomster said:

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The same thing it has been for the last 4 seasons.....the middle of the defense.....we have been killed by TE's over the middle, RB's out of the backfield, and we have been slanted to death..... We have better players.....like I said before, these guys need time to work together and get their communication skills on the same level, and maybe that hole will shrink....

Yes, the middle of the field has been open space for other teams. Last year, we simply had NO ONE that was worthy for coverage in the middle. They all sucked.

This year we have likely starting MLB Robinson, who has speed and can cover.
We have S L. Collins moving to SS "in the box" where coverage is more about balls in front of him rather than attempting to trail where he clearly sucked last year as a FS for the middle.
We have CB Jenkins who I believe will play the nickle while Apple take the outside and that will be an improvement over CB Wade, last year's nickle.
You also have to hope the safety play improves. I'm talking returning B. Jackson, rookie D. Thompson and N. Behre all playing roles and improving over what we had last year.

The Defensive Line was upgraded. Our depth should be adequate there as well except for the need for one more DT.

Assuming our CB and S play improve and Robinson brings speed to the middle we'll be much, much better.

If Thompson turns into a Center fielder that have sorely
lacked for a number of years and will be in position to
make plays on the long ball our Defense can become a
strength .
Thats answering the Question so far so good I wanted the
Clemson Safety because he is a good hitter and Very Fast
I'm optimistic that Darian is a Baller ......

In comment 13038024 Bluesbreaker said:

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If Thompson turns into a Center fielder that have sorely lacked for a number of years and will be in position to make plays on the long ball our Defense can become a strength . Thats answering the Question so far so good I wanted the Clemson Safety because he is a good hitter and Very Fast I'm optimistic that Darian is a Baller ......

As a fan, no one would be happier than me if D. Thompson becomes a starter day 1 based on pure talent and ability rather than just being the best option we have due to limited talent. I am just always a bit worried about a FS, who protects deep, starting as a rookie. But L. Collins started last year, we may see the same again this year.

The only reason I've thought CB / S B. Jackson may be the opening day starter is that he has been on the team 3 years and knows the defense. He is coming off an ACL but if healthy he showed early in camp last year that he has some ability. Now camp news is what it is, the real games are what counts the most and B. Jackson hasn't played a real NFL game at FS.

If the Giants thinking is D. Thompson clearly has the most upside they may live with his early season (possible) learning curve mistakes. We were forced to live with S L. Collins playing sort of "out of position" as a FS mid-fielder last year due to injury. My understanding is that under Spags defense the safeties flip flop anyway meaning there isn't a "cemented" in the box vs mid-fielder each and every snap. Not sure.

2 consider is Spagnuolo really does not like starting rookies. no coach does but Spags is staunchly against it if there's another option. look at 08 when KP came in game ready but still sat behind Butler + Mike Johnson even tho he was a 1st round pick and clearly more talented

he DID NOT want to start landon collins but felt like he had to

In comment 13037391 SGMen said:

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In comment 13037385 David in LA said: Quote: In comment 13037361 SGMen said: Quote: In comment 13037354 PatersonPlank said: Quote: He has no excuse now. He has an all-star team back there, with Jenkins, Snacks, Vernon, JPP, Collins, Apple, Hankins, and DRC. Sure, Spags must come up with superb game plans and I believe he usually does. I'm not too worried about the defensive coaching right now. I am hoping however that somehow Reese gets a proven veteran FS before July ends. LOL. All the proven FS's that are going to be available, are the ones who have proven it many years ago. I'm going to have to disagree with you there, I do not want an aging veteran taking snaps away from Thompson or Behre. I'd rather let them sink or swim and see what we have. But can Thompson truly man center field? Or is he truly an "in the box" type as some scouting has noted? I mean, if a true veteran FS were there (and I doubt very much that will happen) wouldn't you want them to fill our bggest hole and make our defense strong? S L. Collins plays out of positon last year and it showed. He was horrible against the pass. I don't want to see that again.

Those are some legitimate concerns, especially with Thompson's 'slow' 40 time. I just have a feeling that what's available right now and beyond is going to be the same caliber of guys we picked up last year (Meriweather and Dahl. Yikes!). Those aging vets will still be available if we find out this preseason that Thompson isn't cut out to be a CF type of safety to complement Collins. We shouldn't sleep on Collins though, it looks like his goal is to get his weight down to the 210-215 range (read that somewhere this offseason). What if Collins surprised and showed that he has range to play deep?

In comment 13038092 David in LA said:

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In comment 13037391 SGMen said: Quote: In comment 13037385 David in LA said: Quote: In comment 13037361 SGMen said: Quote: In comment 13037354 PatersonPlank said: Quote: He has no excuse now. He has an all-star team back there, with Jenkins, Snacks, Vernon, JPP, Collins, Apple, Hankins, and DRC. Sure, Spags must come up with superb game plans and I believe he usually does. I'm not too worried about the defensive coaching right now. I am hoping however that somehow Reese gets a proven veteran FS before July ends. LOL. All the proven FS's that are going to be available, are the ones who have proven it many years ago. I'm going to have to disagree with you there, I do not want an aging veteran taking snaps away from Thompson or Behre. I'd rather let them sink or swim and see what we have. But can Thompson truly man center field? Or is he truly an "in the box" type as some scouting has noted? I mean, if a true veteran FS were there (and I doubt very much that will happen) wouldn't you want them to fill our bggest hole and make our defense strong? S L. Collins plays out of positon last year and it showed. He was horrible against the pass. I don't want to see that again. Those are some legitimate concerns, especially with Thompson's 'slow' 40 time. I just have a feeling that what's available right now and beyond is going to be the same caliber of guys we picked up last year (Meriweather and Dahl. Yikes!). Those aging vets will still be available if we find out this preseason that Thompson isn't cut out to be a CF type of safety to complement Collins. We shouldn't sleep on Collins though, it looks like his goal is to get his weight down to the 210-215 range (read that somewhere this offseason). What if Collins surprised and showed that he has range to play deep?

I'd be pleasantly surprised if L. Collins ends up playing FS or centerfielder more than "in the box" but hey we may not have a choice again if the younger / injured returning aren't up to snuff.

I have noted previously that I really like S N. Behre who is coming back from injury. I would not be shocked at any safety scenario working itself out. We just have really all unknowns outside of Landon Collins.

And maybe Landon Collins is forced to play the same role, but hopefully not. I think Landon would be a demon playing closer to the LOS and stuffing the run, tackling the pass that is shorter range and in front of him. Back pedaling and playing centerfield isn't his strong suit as evidenced by his play last year.

In comment 13037809 732NYG said:

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What has Bennett Jackson done to deserve the starting spot?

The same could be said of Berhe. It's not like he's flashed skills other than jumping off the trainer's table.

In comment 13038134 Gman11 said:

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In comment 13037809 732NYG said: Quote: What has Bennett Jackson done to deserve the starting spot? The same could be said of Berhe. It's not like he's flashed skills other than jumping off the trainer's table.

He was hurt last year just as much of our secondary was. N. Behre showed some good things as a rookie. He doesn't have top end speed just like most of our safeties but he hits like a freight truck.

You have to hope he and everyone else stays healthy so the coaches can figure out who can do what best. I would not be surprised if we sort of rotated safeties. I believe four safeties are active on game days and all four play, with 2 being the dime / special role guys.

In comment 13038081 area junc said:

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2 consider is Spagnuolo really does not like starting rookies. no coach does but Spags is staunchly against it if there's another option. look at 08 when KP came in game ready but still sat behind Butler + Mike Johnson even tho he was a 1st round pick and clearly more talented

Very good point about Spags likely not really wanting to start a rookie unless he must. Last year, he had no choice in starting L. Collins. Injuries forced his hand.

Now, does a lack of "upside talent" force his hand this year and D. Thompson starts? We shall see...

In comment 13037479 grizz299 said:

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I think you guys are out of touch. You can't have depth in this era of the cap. Besides you guys want Bob lily and Mean Joe Green backing up the defensive tackles. Fact is, the depth is pretty sensation given the circumatances. DE ..odi, Wynn Dt.. Bromley, FA CB.. Apple, Wade LB.. Brinkley, Robinson, Kennard, Cassillas, Thomas, Sheperd (pick your starters ) Safety (see above) Sure we're going to be hurt if Vernon, Harrison, Hankins, JPP, Cromartie or Janoris are hurt. But once you pay a qb 20 million per year finite resources do not provide enough to have starters on the bench.

Agree, but you need more than two pass rushers for Spags D to really excel (unless the two you have stay healthy and have an unbelievably awesome season)

In comment 13038235 Beer Man said:

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In comment 13037479 grizz299 said: Quote: I think you guys are out of touch. You can't have depth in this era of the cap. Besides you guys want Bob lily and Mean Joe Green backing up the defensive tackles. Fact is, the depth is pretty sensation given the circumatances. DE ..odi, Wynn Dt.. Bromley, FA CB.. Apple, Wade LB.. Brinkley, Robinson, Kennard, Cassillas, Thomas, Sheperd (pick your starters ) Safety (see above) Sure we're going to be hurt if Vernon, Harrison, Hankins, JPP, Cromartie or Janoris are hurt. But once you pay a qb 20 million per year finite resources do not provide enough to have starters on the bench. Agree, but you need more than two pass rushers for Spags D to really excel (unless the two you have stay healthy and have an unbelievably awesome season)

I believe Vernon, JPP, Hankins and (gulp) Kennard can all bring heat. And I believe they will do just that if they stay healthy, especially Kennard and Hankins who've been hurt recently.

The wild card is the "blitz" which Spags likes. I do like LB Robinson and his speed/quickness to do some of this. I like S L. Collins to do some "run blitzes" which could lead to sacks.

My crazy wildcard pass rusher is FB / DL Nikita Whitlock. He was a superb pass rusher as I understand it in college, though undersized for a DL. He has now bulked up to 250 and has a year of experience. He flashed some quickness last year as a pass rusher in limited snaps.

I just wonder if this young man, with increased size and little experience, can't come in an surprise as a situational pass rusher, special teamer and backup FB. He has versatility which helps add value and maybe justify a roster spot. We just need to get "lucky" with someone who can help.

If you can't get to the QB consistently in this league you ain't winning consistently. Denver proved in the SB with Miller what pressure can do. We proved in 2007 and 2011 what fine DL play can do: win you the big game. I believe we have pass rush from starters BUT we need backups that can bring heat too. So does Bromley develop this year and replace Snacks as a de facto pass rusher? We have to hope so.

In comment 13038159 SGMen said:

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In comment 13038081 area junc said: Quote: 2 consider is Spagnuolo really does not like starting rookies. no coach does but Spags is staunchly against it if there's another option. look at 08 when KP came in game ready but still sat behind Butler + Mike Johnson even tho he was a 1st round pick and clearly more talented Very good point about Spags likely not really wanting to start a rookie unless he must. Last year, he had no choice in starting L. Collins. Injuries forced his hand. Now, does a lack of "upside talent" force his hand this year and D. Thompson starts? We shall see...

Kenny Phillips played in every game as a rookie, splitting time with both Johnson and Butler, and starting three games when Butler got hurt. And if Spags was hesitant to start him from the get-go, it probably had more to do with his confidence in Johnson and Butler - who were, after all, key components of his Super Bowl- winning defense - than a lack of confidence in Phillips. BTW, Butler was third on the team in tackles, Johnson was fourth, and Phillips was sixth. In interceptions, it was three, two, and one, respectively.

can hold the other teams to 20 points or less this team will win a lot of games and the NFC.
I think the Offense will be much improved and it wasn't bad last year.

In comment 13038446 shelovesnycsports said:

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can hold the other teams to 20 points or less this team will win a lot of games and the NFC. I think the Offense will be much improved and it wasn't bad last year.

I agree. If this defense improves to at least middle of the pack we'll win a heck of a lot more games.

The key areas we need to improve are redzone offense and run game. If we can control the ball for longer each game via a better run game and even a better short pass game we'll go far.

There is also an article today about Manning's efficiency last year with the long ball, 11 TD's and no interceptions, league's best rating. I think we'll see more of that. This OL, even the right side, ain't bad at pass protecting. Look for Eli to go deep more this year.

In comment 13038446 shelovesnycsports said:

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can hold the other teams to 20 points or less this team will win a lot of games and the NFC. I think the Offense will be much improved and it wasn't bad last year.

Last year, 20 points or less would have put us in the Top 11, a far cry from where we ended up...at 30. I don't know if we can expect that dramatic a jump this year, but even getting to the middle of the pack would go a long way towards getting us to the playoffs if our offense doesn't take a step back.

In comment 13038486 Klaatu said:

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In comment 13038446 shelovesnycsports said: Quote: can hold the other teams to 20 points or less this team will win a lot of games and the NFC. I think the Offense will be much improved and it wasn't bad last year. Last year, 20 points or less would have put us in the Top 11, a far cry from where we ended up...at 30. I don't know if we can expect that dramatic a jump this year, but even getting to the middle of the pack would go a long way towards getting us to the playoffs if our offense doesn't take a step back.

20 points is likely a "pipe dream" in today's pass NFL. The only way a defense is going to hold a team to 20 or less regularly is if they can rush the passer and get turnovers, as well as stop the run.

I truly believe we'll be much improved with our pass rush and that we have 3 DL's that can push the pocket in Vernon, JPP and Hankins. JPP was showing that with surgery he can now grip with his 3 fingers. I believe the man is motivated beyond belief to make up for his miscue July 4th. He'd be a great story if he had 15+ sacks.

I do believe, if we stay and get healthy, that our defense is "middle of the pack" material. The DL should be much better against the run than last year; we should have better depth; and than there is the year #2 of the defense experience factor.

Collins is our starting SS and he would or should be the
3rd or 4th option as our FS .
If Bennett is healthy and beats out Thompson thats fine
Mykelle hadn't shown jack shit and I think was a bad
pick I don't see him making the roster let alone starting .
Cooper Taylor can't seem to stay on the field we like his
size and speed not sure about his smarts or hands but
is worse came to worse I would rather see DRC at FS only
if injuries pile up then just stick Apple out at the CB
and let you next best guy play the slot .
Maybe its a bit much to ask of DRC but he has all the tools
Collins I think is poised for a big year at SS and if
DT Pans out as the starter and makes play like he did
in school then this D will be upper third or better .

In comment 13038564 Bluesbreaker said:

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Collins is our starting SS and he would or should be the 3rd or 4th option as our FS . If Bennett is healthy and beats out Thompson thats fine Mykelle hadn't shown jack shit and I think was a bad pick I don't see him making the roster let alone starting . Cooper Taylor can't seem to stay on the field we like his size and speed not sure about his smarts or hands but is worse came to worse I would rather see DRC at FS only if injuries pile up then just stick Apple out at the CB and let you next best guy play the slot . Maybe its a bit much to ask of DRC but he has all the tools Collins I think is poised for a big year at SS and if DT Pans out as the starter and makes play like he did in school then this D will be upper third or better .

Jykelle had some good reports last year. He was a bit raw coming out but he had speed and upside. An achilles injury is bad as not everyone makes it back. I don't think we'll know what we have with him until maybe after game 1 of pre-season and the camp reports. Assuming he can even play in camp. I haven't heard about the status of his health.

And no way DRC plays FS. He is not a tackler. He is not a good run defend guy as a CB and as a safety he'd be a pure liability.

on defense

In comment 13038580 EricJ said:

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on defense

If you mean guys who are "mean, quick, want it, have character and just want to attack" I agree! You always need guys who won't quit.

emergency .. I didn't think he was a a poor tackler
but that said we should hope Jackson Thompson stay
healthy then the point is mute .
I just remember that when we drafted M Thompson that
it seemed a bit of a reach then add on the injury not
quite sure but he doesn't look to be a big hitter either .

In comment 13041941 Bluesbreaker said:

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emergency .. I didn't think he was a a poor tackler but that said we should hope Jackson Thompson stay healthy then the point is mute . I just remember that when we drafted M Thompson that it seemed a bit of a reach then add on the injury not quite sure but he doesn't look to be a big hitter either .

Getting and staying healthy is the key for the defensive backfield. We had limited veteran talent last year and then injuries hit. We had the league's worst secondary!

This year, we'll have a lot of youthful competition in camp and that is a good thing overall.

But wouldn't it be great if S B. Jackson, N. Behre and M. Thompson all came back from injury and showed in camp that they had starting potential? The deeper you are the better you are as a team.

It is looking like the Giants will start S L. Collins and work with rookie S D. Thompson to be the opening day starters. But I also believe four safeties will be active on game days due to dime defenses and special teams. And all four safeties will play on defense and rotate around a bit.

Last word: look for N. Behre to surprise. He hits like a freight train and is healthy now. He just isn't a center-fielder type safety.

my#2 weakspot is WLB. I was reading a projected roster article that had LB Casillas listed as the probable starter since JT Thomas can't stay healthy. That would NOT be a good thing as he is a back-up at best. JT Thomas, at last I thought, if healthy would do better behind this DL and win the starting job and be a chase down LB due to his speed.

There has been some pub that LB Robinson could be the WLB on opening day with Brinkley at MLB on run downs. I don't know how this will play out but the bottom line is we don't have talent for WLB.