Is Tom Coughlin The Greatest Coach In Team History?

Belichick with Lombardi and Landry in the mix with Parcells.

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Remember that both of Parcels super bowl wins had Little Bill as his defensive coordinator and they won on defense. Coughlin never had that type of supporting cast.

so many factors. look at the NFC when Parcells was coaching the Giants, the 49ers were in their dynasty, the Redskins were very good, Aikman/Irvin/Emmitt were just being born, the Bears had one of the greatest defenses in history and the Eagles had Reggie White in a star-studded defense and a pretty good offense. and more...

there was just not the same parity you see today.

Without a doubt.
redwhiteandbigblue : 10:54 am : link : reply
Remember that both of Parcels super bowl wins had Little Bill as his defensive coordinator and they won on defense. Coughlin never had that type of supporting cast.


So Phil Simms and the offense had nothing to do with that first SB?

And it was Spag's defense that shut down, probably the greatest offense , ever, in NFL history, yet Coughlin "never had that type of supporting cast."

Unfortunately, TC's tenure is tarnished by the fact his teams only won playoff games in two post seasons(out of 14 seasons), failed to make the playoffs 6 out of the last 7 seasons, and his career finished on a sour note with 3 straight losing seasons.....so greatest? No.....

were Big Bill and TC. The best coaches in Giants history were allowed to leave only to become some of the greatest HCs in NFL history - Lombardi, Landry, and Little Bill

Parcels had lil Bill LT etc.

I still rank Eli over Simms, but Coughlin beat lil Bill 2x in Superbowls with teams that were not dominant all season and in the end much less of a team.

TC is tops in my book.

Still love 18-1 :)

then it has to be Parcells. However, he had George Young as GM which enabled him to be so good. Back then, you only had the draft.

Thankfully, you had the Saints NOT draft LT!!

I think Steve Owen was considered the best for years. I didn't see that era of football so I can't compare.

I was referring to the thread title which referred to COACHES. The bottom line is they were both great. Take it down a notch. It is my OPINION.

but it's closer than some may think. Overall bodies of work show two damn good coaches. PArcells had a bigger impact on the NFL overall though. His presence or aura alone is the stuff of legend. I'd give Parcells the edge from an organizational POV including relationship/motivational stuff but I give Coughlin the egde in terms of game day coaching. I loved the way his teams played. They were both elite though. NO doubt.

if he had been given good players on a consistent basis. Since SB 46, Tom was given crap to work with...both the offensive and defensive lines were left to deteriorate and get old, drafting was awful and it appears he was cut off at the knees by a front office that spent nothing on free agents or tried to get by on bargain basement deals. This year's plunge into the FA market shows that Tom was not given any support by Reese.

Tom was an outstanding coach whose last four years were sabotaged by mediocrity in the front office not to mention an inordinate amount of serious injuries to key players (Nicks, Cruz, Beason just to name a few).

That said, I put Tom on a par with Parcells. To me, they are the two greatest coaches in Giants' history and each has 2 SBs to their credit. Only difference is Parcells had a much more consistent team during his tenure...only two of his eight years were sub. 500 years and one was done in by a strike. But he had that great defense while Tom only had a great D in 2007/2008.

Coughlin took two teams with mediocre regular season records to the championship.

Parcells won a Super Bowl with a backup QB and over-the-hill RB (that ended up being the SB MVP).

I'd take either one.

then you're traversing a slippery slope. And it's an unfair indictment on any HC. Go with what the eyes tell you --look at their careers with a wide lens...pull back. Everywhere the guys went they won. Coughlin even in college---showed he had amazing chops. Going the asst coaching route --how can you blame PArcells when he was directly or even indirectly the one who cultivated the coaching tree in the first place? Yeah he had help, but he also helped himself by nurturing and allowing those coaches to succeed. If anything I use Coughlin's lack of asst coach star power against him. But only a little bit.

Just ask yourself if you'd feel great starting a team with scratch with either guy running the show. We all would. I think i'd feel a little little better if I know that guy was Parcells. It's close though. I think the final factor is Parcells choosing the right coordinators.

In comment 13039127 redwhiteandbigblue said:

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Remember that both of Parcels super bowl wins had Little Bill as his defensive coordinator and they won on defense. Coughlin never had that type of supporting cast.

That could be easily interpreted to mean that Bill was better, since he was a better judge of coordinator talent.

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gives him the edge. But no slight to TC, whose own achievements put him in special company.

George Young was a GREAT GM before the game changed and allow free agents. Parcells benefited very much from having George as his GM.

Coughlin beat far better teams to win those two Super Bowls.

who the best head coach (all teams) is in the last 40 years I would not even blink and say Belichick. Not only for his multiple super bowl wins and appearances as a head coach, but both Parcells' super bowl wins he was the DC.

both are HOFers

In comment 13039243 Steve in South Jersey said:

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Coughlin beat far better teams to win those two Super Bowls.

Really? The 1990 Giants went into Candlestick and beat the 14-2 two-time defending champs on their field, then beat the 13-3 Bills who had just won the AFC title game by a score of 51-3. The 1986 Giants beat the Redskins for the third time in the NFC title game, the same Redskins who would win a title themselves the following season, and blew out the Niners 49-3.

They always end up unfairly criticizing great Giants.

Coughlin's attributes were preparation, attention to detail and determination. Very important elements of winning, but nothing special. He just did it better than others at the right times.

Coughlin was not creative. I don't think he developed anything new in his career. He doesn't have a "tree" of coaches who are developing his concepts into their own winning programs. And he was a particularly poor game manager - he could lose games like the best of them: Wade Phillips, Norv Turner etc.

Coughlin's big wins were typically defined by spectacular plays, usually by Eli. Parcell's often won incredible games with whatever happened to be working that day, including special teams - something Coughlin was inept at. Its safe to say that Coughlin's reputation is more dependant on Eli than Parcell's is on Taylor.

Coughlin may actually have had more coaching success at Jacksonville, I don't know, but Parcells did equally well or better than Coughlin while coaching other teams.

Coughlin, Parcells, Belichick...all great Giants. Cannot wait to see the reception he gets on Nov. 14 when he is inducted for the Ring of Honor. I for one will be leading the applause.

Parcells had some epic end of game debacles after the Giants. He also had some of the best defensive talent in history.

In comment 13039316 AP in Halfmoon said:

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Parcells had some epic end of game debacles after the Giants. He also had some of the best defensive talent in history.

Bahaha...do you REALLY want to go to the "debacle" well in defense of Coughlin? I don't think that's going to go well for you.

We get it. You despise Coughlin

In comment 13039220 Greg from LI said:

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Yes, Parcells easily. Their similarity mostly ends with each having two glorious titles:

1. Missing the playoffs in six of seven seasons, with an alway-healthy HOF-caliber QB in his prime, is just horrible. Parcells did not have this embarrassment.

2. Someone posted this before, Parcells' team was blowed out (losing by 14 or more) like 3 or 4 times in his 8 years. That number during Coughlin's Giants tenture is like 15 to 20, alarmingly, even laughably, high, for someone we want to send to Canton.

TC also had the only two games over a 10-year period in the entire NFL in which his team led by 21 in the 4th quarter.

3. Almost all opposing coaches feared Bill Parcells as he often outcoached them. He consistently got the best of two of the best HCs of all time, Joe Gibbs and Bill Walsh. Yes I know and I am very thankful that TC beat little Bill twice, but did we have the sense that head coaches around the league genuinely worried or even feared TC -- about his strategy, about his adjustment, about him always having his players 100% ready to play ? Respect, yes. Fear, hardly.

I really like Coughlin, but it has to be remembered that the two teams that won with him were flashes in the pan. The one really good team he had in a decade suffered an absolutely awful playoff one and done at home.

Parcells had at least three teams that were better than any we had under Coughlin. And the excellence of Parcells's staff (which included Coughlin) is a credit to Parcells. By contrast some of Coughlin's hires have ranged from mystifying to plain awful.

I feel like much of Eli Manning's prime has been wasted.

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Did you conduct a survey?

Almost all opposing coaches feared Bill Parcells as he often outcoached them. He consistently got the best of two of the best HCs of all time, Joe Gibbs and Bill Walsh. Yes I know and I am very thankful that TC beat little Bill twice, but did we have the sense that head coaches around the league genuinely worried or even feared TC -- about his strategy, about his adjustment, about him always having his players 100% ready to play ? Respect, yes. Fear, hardly.

Like everything else is exactly the same. In fact, it's so different it's impossible to make valid comparisons. People also remember Parcells with a romantic like memory. He has more than his share of wartaking.

I'm done, please continue

smh. 'Everything modern is great'.

In comment 13039323 AP in Halfmoon said:

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We get it. You despise Coughlin

A little sensitive to criticism, eh? Nobody on this board in their right mind would despise Coughlin (unless they are a stalking Pats fan). Choosing one as the greatest in no way implies the other is bad.

Pick your points and make them: Parcells had some debacles and also had great defenses (which he helped coached btw)? So Coughlin is better? I'm OK with your opinion, even though most of us don't agree with it or the reasoning behind it. By my opinion was in no way "incorrect"...

In comment 13039360 AP in Halfmoon said:

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Did you conduct a survey? Almost all opposing coaches feared Bill Parcells as he often outcoached them. He consistently got the best of two of the best HCs of all time, Joe Gibbs and Bill Walsh. Yes I know and I am very thankful that TC beat little Bill twice, but did we have the sense that head coaches around the league genuinely worried or even feared TC -- about his strategy, about his adjustment, about him always having his players 100% ready to play ? Respect, yes. Fear, hardly.

AP, rest assured I don't consider you as bullshit, just shit. Period.

And it has nothing to do with you disagreeing with my position.

Parcells was great at adjusting at half time Coughlin not so much. Entirely different both suited to the era that they were successful in. Coughlin did better with the players he had which were less talented. Toss up,

He stewarded the Giants through the Great Depression, World War II (when rosters were decimated) and threats from three rival leagues.

He was THE defensive genius of Pro Football's first half century, the his Umbrella Defense is what Tom Landry conceived his coordinated 3-4 Defense from.

Nobody ever replicated Owen's A-Formation, though Mel Hein had a lot to do with that success.

Owen was also the first coach to strategically use the field goal when conventional wisdom was punt the opponent deep inside their 10-yard line and force them to make a mistake (or punt the ball back to you). Owen personally trained Ward Cuff to placekick, even though he had never done so in high school or college, and he brough Ken Strong out of retirement as a kicking specialist during the war.

The Giants won more division titles and had more postseason appearances than any other team under his leadership, and his rivals included George Halas and Curly Lambeau.

In comment 13039341 Go Terps said:

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I feel like much of Eli Manning's prime has been wasted.

Absolutely, considered they had a HOF-caliber QB in his prime and never missed even a snap, they left trophies, or at least a few playoff victories, which is the 2nd most glorious achievement in team sports, on the table.

had too many breakdowns for me. Parcells teams were far more consistent.

in Giants history lining up behind center. I also felt like we left a lot of wins on the table, had problems developing depth, knowing when to let go of aging veterans, and major issues putting together a coaching staff. With all the warts and all, Coughlin is a deserving HOF candidate, and the ring of honor is a no brainer.

In comment 13039341 Go Terps said:

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I feel like much of Eli Manning's prime has been wasted.

I'm grateful for the 2 rings and all, but I wonder how the perception of Eli would change around the league if he won 2 SB's in the McAdoo offense.

(the coach, not the General). Parcells is my guy. There was no "let's just hope we can win the East, then anything can happen in the playoffs" those days. He put together clearly dominant teams.

A great team with the opportunity to solidify this era as a special one that deserves to be marked in the history of the league. If they win that year and again in 2011 the entire story is so very different.

From the perspective of a Giants fan twenty years from now I think this era will be much kinder to Eli than it is to Coughlin. The last few years didn't remove all of the luster, but it removed some for Coughlin.

And the Super Bowl games do not nearly tell the whole story, but I often think that our XXV victory is misunderstood as time goes on. I know BB's game plan is in the hall of fame, but we did give up 19 points in 19 minutes. It was the brilliant plan by Parcells to grind the game out with ball possession that was the tactic that most influenced the outcome. Ironically, too, our defense was fortunate in the first super bowl only to have given up 10 points in the first half--Denver drove down twice and there was a missed FG and a goal line stand. The defense bailed itself out, but Elway and co. was moving effectively in the first half. Now, of course, the defensive effort that was BB's masterpiece was the two games in 90 against the niners, the way he could stop that offense with those weapons was crazy, giving up 7 and 13 points respectively on the road. Having both those quality coaches on our staff was something we might never see again (and we were doubly fortunate since in the 50s we had Lombardi and Landry running the offense and defense).

...he could be 1-2-3 depending on your personal preference.

TC's team were streaky and largely successful based on the heroic efforts of specific players (Eli, Plax, Bradshaw). Beyond that not very consistent teams. Parcells took average guys built a very consistent team and dominated opponents.

If so, that gives him 4 SB victories for the Giants to BP's two.

I've never had a sports moment like SB 42, and I can't imagine one like that again. That on top of the run that team had. It's as good as it can possibly get for a sports fan. No other football fan base has a game like that. Not really. Not 18-1.

(The ball going through Buckner's legs is maybe a close second for me personally.)