WASHINGTON — A Florida police officer shot and wounded an autistic man's black caretaker, authorities said, in an incident purportedly captured on cellphone video that shows the caretaker lying down with his arms raised before being shot.
North Miami Assistant Police Chief Neal Cuevas told The Miami Herald (http://goo.gl/rhHVyt) that officers responded to the scene Monday following reports of a man threatening to shoot himself. Officers arrived to find 47-year-old Charles Kinsey, a therapist who works with people with disabilities, according to WSVN-TV (http://bit.ly/2ac7zm1), trying to get his 27-year-old patient back to a facility from where he had wandered.
Cuevas says police ordered Kinsey and the patient, who was sitting in the street playing with a toy truck, to lie on the ground. Kinsey lies down and puts his hands up while trying to get his patient to comply. An officer then fired three times, striking Kinsey in the leg, Cuevas said. No weapon was found.
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So, yeah, in this case the blind squirrel apparently found a nut. but anyone who thinks there isn't a very real sentiment of cops are guilty until proven innocent is delusional.
Not sure that a blind squirrel found it's nut in this case as much as it was almost blatantly incomprehensible to be any other way than one sided based on the video and reports. While you may want to practice prudence in all cases involving police shootings, which is your prerogative, there are certain cases that requires little prudence when it is so one sided that any other explanation just boggles the mind.
So yes, we do have reactionary posters on one hand, who will seek to find any reasons to hate on police officers, but we also have apologist on the other side, who will seek to find any reason to absolve any wrong doing. Case in point is people talking about this therapist maybe having criminal record or history of violence as if that is even relevant in this case.
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Wait...what did he shoot with at a distance of 50 yards? And whatever happened to positive identification of your target? Seriously, what kind of a fucking clown shitshow are they running in that police department?
He had a rifle positioned on the trunk of the police car (assuming that's the cop who shot the guy).
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According to a law-enforcement source, the officer who shot Kinsey was taking cover behind a squad car and fired from at least 50 yards away. He shot after another officer, in a radio transmission, suggested the autistic man was loading his weapon, which turned out to be the toy truck, the source said.
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Wait...what did he shoot with at a distance of 50 yards? And whatever happened to positive identification of your target? Seriously, what kind of a fucking clown shitshow are they running in that police department?
Exactly, and why did they not continue to try to take down the supposed man with the gun? These excuses make zero sense given that the only man shot is the one they were supposedly trying to protect, and once down they just go "aw shit, we don't need to save him anymore so lets just walk up and handcuff them".
It is a bunch of complete horseshit with a hole in their excuse that you could drive a truck through
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Dear god, that had better not have been a pistol shot.
He had a rifle positioned on the trunk of the police car (assuming that's the cop who shot the guy).
If so, then how the hell did he miss so badly? 50 yards with a rifle is almost a sure shot. And seriously, what happened to positive identification prior to pulling the trigger? This entire situation is getting more comical (in a sad way) by the second.
It is a bunch of complete horseshit with a hole in their excuse that you could drive a truck through
I was wondering to about that...if they wanted to save the therapist, then why cuff him? Why let him bleed instead of taking him immediately to a safe location to get checked out.
Who's running this public relations job? A five year old? Because my five year old could come up with just as many dumb excuses as these idiots.
sadly, this is the mentality of far too many people. the concept of innocent until proven guilty apparently doesn't apply to cops.
Point blank: Why do you think this is okay? What are you trying to prove? What is your line of thinking here? What could have occurred that made this okay?
Agreed. I regularly hit woodchucks in the head at longer ranges than that, and that's without a scope and with somewhat compromised vision. Pitiful at best.
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Exactly, and why did they not continue to try to take down the supposed man with the gun? These excuses make zero sense given that the only man shot is the one they were supposedly trying to protect, and once down they just go "aw shit, we don't need to save him anymore so lets just walk up and handcuff them".
It is a bunch of complete horseshit with a hole in their excuse that you could drive a truck through
I was wondering to about that...if they wanted to save the therapist, then why cuff him? Why let him bleed instead of taking him immediately to a safe location to get checked out.
Who's running this public relations job? A five year old? Because my five year old could come up with just as many dumb excuses as these idiots.
And it is these absurd rationals we get that is making people doubt them when its a legit shoot
I thought you were going to say you had a long funnel..
You know shot of wild turkey, 75 yards, long funnel...I'm here all week folks!
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That's practically fish in a barrel. If that were the case, he should be fired for incompetence with his weapon alone.
Agreed. I regularly hit woodchucks in the head at longer ranges than that, and that's without a scope and with somewhat compromised vision. Pitiful at best.
I didn't notice a scope on the rifle, I'll check the video again, but I wonder if the police use their rifles in any type of competency training very often.
no scope on a rifle at 50 yards a professional LE officer should make the shot within a few inches IMO, but if you allow for the moving target, the fact there is some stress with a human target, and lack of training i can see missing the autistic man, but hitting the therapist instead is like the pitcher in Bull Durham hitting the mascot, it's so bad of a shot it almost has to be intentional.
with a scope, you just can't miss that bad.
So if he has a scope, he's definitely lying IMO. If he doesn't have a scope there is a good chance he's still lying or he's one of the worst shots in LE.
It certainly isn't looking good for the police on the scene, and every report makes them look worse, but the point still stands that many have already judged the cops as guilty, and have from the very beginning, and I find that attitude abhorrent.
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In comment 13041609 Greg from LI said:
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That's practically fish in a barrel. If that were the case, he should be fired for incompetence with his weapon alone.
Agreed. I regularly hit woodchucks in the head at longer ranges than that, and that's without a scope and with somewhat compromised vision. Pitiful at best.
I didn't notice a scope on the rifle, I'll check the video again, but I wonder if the police use their rifles in any type of competency training very often.
no scope on a rifle at 50 yards a professional LE officer should make the shot within a few inches IMO, but if you allow for the moving target, the fact there is some stress with a human target, and lack of training i can see missing the autistic man, but hitting the therapist instead is like the pitcher in Bull Durham hitting the mascot, it's so bad of a shot it almost has to be intentional.
with a scope, you just can't miss that bad.
So if he has a scope, he's definitely lying IMO. If he doesn't have a scope there is a good chance he's still lying or he's one of the worst shots in LE.
I didn't mean to imply that he was using a scoped rifle; I just wanted to make the point that at that range, with open sights, he should have been able to hit whatever he was aiming at.
Hilton Napoleon, who is representing behavioral therapist Charles Kinsey, said Friday that it was implausible that a trained SWAT team member could be that inaccurate from 50 yards or less.
“I don’t understand if he’s aiming at the autistic kid, how he could miss,” Napoleon said. If that was the case, said the attorney, “he had plenty of time to tell my client to move.”
Napoleon also questioned why if police were trying to save Kinsey’s life, they rolled him over and handcuffed him as he was bleeding from a bullet wound to his leg.
“They handcuffed him after he got shot,” he said.
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In comment 13041616 BMac said:
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In comment 13041609 Greg from LI said:
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That's practically fish in a barrel. If that were the case, he should be fired for incompetence with his weapon alone.
Agreed. I regularly hit woodchucks in the head at longer ranges than that, and that's without a scope and with somewhat compromised vision. Pitiful at best.
I didn't notice a scope on the rifle, I'll check the video again, but I wonder if the police use their rifles in any type of competency training very often.
no scope on a rifle at 50 yards a professional LE officer should make the shot within a few inches IMO, but if you allow for the moving target, the fact there is some stress with a human target, and lack of training i can see missing the autistic man, but hitting the therapist instead is like the pitcher in Bull Durham hitting the mascot, it's so bad of a shot it almost has to be intentional.
with a scope, you just can't miss that bad.
So if he has a scope, he's definitely lying IMO. If he doesn't have a scope there is a good chance he's still lying or he's one of the worst shots in LE.
I didn't mean to imply that he was using a scoped rifle; I just wanted to make the point that at that range, with open sights, he should have been able to hit whatever he was aiming at.
I know, I was agreeing with you and adding if he had a scope, just makes his story that much more flimsy.
Why (and who made it) was there a call in to 911 that there was an armed man threatening to kill himself?
The massive overuse of SWAT these days is a separate but related problem in policing. They used to exist solely for highly dangerous situations such as hostage taking or violent armed robberies, but now they routinely are deployed to carry out ordinary police functions like serving warrants.
The massive overuse of SWAT these days is a separate but related problem in policing. They used to exist solely for highly dangerous situations such as hostage taking or violent armed robberies, but now they routinely are deployed to carry out ordinary police functions like serving warrants.
Why (and who made it) was there a call in to 911 that there was an armed man threatening to kill himself?
Because people are idiots?
I'm sure there are thousands of bogus 911 calls everyday. Its no excuse (not saying you said it was)
Why (and who made it) was there a call in to 911 that there was an armed man threatening to kill himself?
I think these 911 calls are actually the mitigating factor in most of these questionable shootings
Hilton Napoleon, who is representing behavioral therapist Charles Kinsey, said Friday that it was implausible that a trained SWAT team member could be that inaccurate from 50 yards or less.
“I don’t understand if he’s aiming at the autistic kid, how he could miss,” Napoleon said. If that was the case, said the attorney, “he had plenty of time to tell my client to move.”
Napoleon also questioned why if police were trying to save Kinsey’s life, they rolled him over and handcuffed him as he was bleeding from a bullet wound to his leg.
“They handcuffed him after he got shot,” he said. Miami Herald ... - ( New Window )
As I've said...total clown shitshow in this department.
sphinx : 7/21/2016 10:32 am : link : reply
It seems that at least some of these shootings are almost the direct result of police responding to incidents with exaggerated and/or false claims of 911 callers and 911 dispatchers.
sphinx : 7/21/2016 10:32 am : link : reply
It seems that at least some of these shootings are almost the direct result of police responding to incidents with exaggerated and/or false claims of 911 callers and 911 dispatchers.
The thing is...if you're basing your actions solely on reports prior to arriving at the scene, you're not doing your job. Yes, it will get you into a heightened sense of awareness of the potential danger involved. However, when you arrive and the scene is a bit different, you expect them to make their own assessment based on the groundtruth instead of relying on the hearsay to make your ultimate premature decision.
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'reports of a man threatening to shoot himself'
sphinx : 7/21/2016 10:32 am : link : reply
It seems that at least some of these shootings are almost the direct result of police responding to incidents with exaggerated and/or false claims of 911 callers and 911 dispatchers.
The thing is...if you're basing your actions solely on reports prior to arriving at the scene, you're not doing your job. Yes, it will get you into a heightened sense of awareness of the potential danger involved. However, when you arrive and the scene is a bit different, you expect them to make their own assessment based on the groundtruth instead of relying on the hearsay to make your ultimate premature decision.
agree
“I took this job to save lives and help people,” the officer said. “I did what I had to do in a split second to accomplish that and hate to hear others paint me as something that I’m not.”
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It also might mean that the training at the North Miami PD is for shit
“I took this job to save lives and help people,” the officer said. “I did what I had to do in a split second to accomplish that and hate to hear others paint me as something that I’m not.” Link - ( New Window )
What are they painting him as? Incompetent?
So the officer with his rifle shot the therapist who wasn't even that close to the autistic man.
these two sound like the cops from Superbad.
So the officer with his rifle shot the therapist who wasn't even that close to the autistic man.
these two sound like the cops from Superbad.
*officer*
It certainly isn't looking good for the police on the scene, and every report makes them look worse, but the point still stands that many have already judged the cops as guilty, and have from the very beginning, and I find that attitude abhorrent.
Actually...we in the military try to train away this terrible human flaw...which is that when you get a group of people with heighten sense of danger in a situation, you often end up with a terrible case of groupthink and over reliance the collective sense of being right in which an individual relinquishes his/her ability/desire to go against the group.
The reason you brought up doesn't hold water for me and actually makes me think that they're actually even more poorly trained than I initially thought. And before you go and say that this isn't the military, let me just add that we train 18-21 year old to break through such group think. I fully expect a bunch of officers to be able to do the same.
Under the circumstances "I don't know" might be better than I was trying to shoot the guy playing with the toy truck about 6 feet away from you.
Welcome back buddy!
that doesn't mean the shooting was justified in any way. As many have said, it's looking worse and worse by the minute, but that doesn't mean the rush to judgment was justified.
RC: if you're a military, or police force, and a threat has been radioed in, shouldn't the proper training be to assume a threat until it is proven there is no threat? that doesn't mean shoot first ask questions later. And I hear what you're saying about group dynamic getting each other amped up until every one is gung ho hell bent for leather. But isn't it also possible that multiple people legitimately perceived a threat, or at the very least were unable to ascertain that there was no threat? I'm guessing most of the time police and/or military perceive a threat, it is subsequently downgraded, but during the perception, heightened awareness should be the order of the day. Is your training to ignore your patrol mates when they perceive danger? that doesn't excuse someone for being trigger happy. If charges are warranted bring them on. If a cop or two need to be forced to find a new line of work because criminal actions can't be proven or aren't applicable, good. and if better training and awareness is the result of this, all the better for an entire force.
This appears to be an excellent example--as, in my view, was Tamir Rice. A police officer with bad information can get away with not de-escalating without a criminal arrest or firing, but that doesn't make it right. It also may not be the cop's fault as much as the department's fault, for improperly screening who they hire (as with Tamir Rice, imo) or not teaching the officer to properly survey the scene and not rely on what they herd over the police radio.
So did the shooter see a gun? If not and he merely depended on the words of another officer, then he failed to get positive ID of the threat, which is about as careless as anyone can be in a life/death situation.
So was he really trying to protect the therapist who was accidentally shot according to him? If so, then why cuff him and leave him laying there bleeding for many minutes instead of taking him to safety? Why leave him in a dangerous position if the situation was so dire that he made a decision to possibly take another person's life?
Was he really trying to shoot the other person? If so, what kind of shitty training did he receive to miss so terribly?
Any one of these questions alone won't paint the full picture. However, add them all together, and you have to be a freaking moron to even buy a single line of what they're trying to sell you. Seriously, wtf?
City Manager Larry Spring Jr. said Friday that commander Emile Hollant is suspended without pay. Spring declined to give specifics about how Hollant allegedly fabricated information about Monday's shooting of Charles Kinsey by Officer Jonathan Aledda.
"He totally violated his trust from the public to protect and serve by giving misinformation to this department," North Miami Councilman Scott Galvin said at Friday's news conference. "He not only jeopardized Mr. Kinsey's life and the life of his client but he jeopardized the life of every police officer who serves this city."
Hilton Napoleon, Kinsey's attorney, said he was disturbed by Friday's development.
"The fact that they were trying to cover this up initially is a huge problem," Napoleon said.
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What an idiot