WASHINGTON — A Florida police officer shot and wounded an autistic man's black caretaker, authorities said, in an incident purportedly captured on cellphone video that shows the caretaker lying down with his arms raised before being shot.
North Miami Assistant Police Chief Neal Cuevas told The Miami Herald (http://goo.gl/rhHVyt) that officers responded to the scene Monday following reports of a man threatening to shoot himself. Officers arrived to find 47-year-old Charles Kinsey, a therapist who works with people with disabilities, according to WSVN-TV (http://bit.ly/2ac7zm1), trying to get his 27-year-old patient back to a facility from where he had wandered.
Cuevas says police ordered Kinsey and the patient, who was sitting in the street playing with a toy truck, to lie on the ground. Kinsey lies down and puts his hands up while trying to get his patient to comply. An officer then fired three times, striking Kinsey in the leg, Cuevas said. No weapon was found.
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I think 99% of people support the cops. The problem is less BLM and more the people who support the cops no matter what they do.
I don't think its anywhere near 99%. Trust and support of cops is at rock bottom right now. If you poll 100 men walking down the street you'll get your answer on how supported the police really are.
Part of that is deserved, but it won't right all the wrongs. Solidarity is needed, not division.
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In comment 13040306 chuckydee9 said:
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In comment 13040293 Keith said:
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It bothers me that it was important to write that he's a "black" therapist. The way the media writes these stories doesn't help society move forward.
I get your point but they are trying to point out that this won't have likely happened had it been a white therapist..
No, this is actually a legitimate issue and it happens constantly. The media is constantly defining minorities by their race but omit it when the person in question is white. I see this constantly. It shouldn't be that way.
That's bc minorities are being shot by the fucking cops. That's why they make mention of their race.
Unsurprisingly, you're missing the point. It's not about this case specifically. It's a general issue.
The cowardly ambush and murder of the police in Dallas and then Louisiana only exacerbates the police approaching every call as if it's a potential ambush. As well, there are so many guns in America, I'm sure there's some great prudence in the police "shoot first" mentality. I'm sympathetic to the challenges faced by law enforcement officers. But it's always going to be a tough job and if you're looking for on the job safety then being a cop probably isn't the right occupation.
Anyway, this wasn't a dangerous situation. At least until the police arrived.
Exactly. I hate this notion that you have to support either the cops or BLM, and that's there's no middle ground. I support the cops and am thankful for the tough job they do, but I can also call out the cops who are abusing their power or acting unprofessionally. The violence on both ends is deplorable.
May be the solution is that it shouldn't be the town or county prosecutor who brings the case against the cops as there is inherent connection with the cops but rather internal affairs or internal audit whatever the police department has to bring the case in front of the jury..
The problem is njms very link showed the massive difference- the arrest and charges of those suspects is so massively different then what happens to cops who do similar actions. Since there is basically no repercussions of being a cop who shoots unarmed civilians, those with any kind of itchy trigger finger have no fear of reprisal for scratching it.
All the whattaboutism in the world get thrown at this issue
"yea a cop shot an unarmed black man but what about Al Sharpton/Beyoncé/The Media making it worse?"
"Yea a cop shot an unarmed black man but what about the "fact" BLM are terrorists!"
Of course the old standby-
"Yea a cop shot an unarmed black man but what about the fact he had a criminal record?"
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What does it mean to "support the cops"? Do I think they have a difficult job? Sure. Do I want them to be safe? Absolutely. Do I think a decent chunk of them abuse their power? Yes. Do I think they should be held to a lower standard when it comes to being prosecuted? Hell no.
Exactly. I hate this notion that you have to support either the cops or BLM, and that's there's no middle ground. I support the cops and am thankful for the tough job they do, but I can also call out the cops who are abusing their power or acting unprofessionally. The violence on both ends is deplorable.
I'd say most rational people feel this way. The problem is we are riddled with irrational people who listen to lyrics in a song rather than form their own opinion. It is very much Cops vs. BLM, which is sad.
The problem is njms very link showed the massive difference- the arrest and charges of those suspects is so massively different then what happens to cops who do similar actions. Since there is basically no repercussions of being a cop who shoots unarmed civilians, those with any kind of itchy trigger finger have no fear of reprisal for scratching it.
All the whattaboutism in the world get thrown at this issue
"yea a cop shot an unarmed black man but what about Al Sharpton/Beyoncé/The Media making it worse?"
"Yea a cop shot an unarmed black man but what about the "fact" BLM are terrorists!"
Of course the old standby-
"Yea a cop shot an unarmed black man but what about the fact he had a criminal record?"
THANK YOU!!!
No need for further comment.
Cut and dried.
Ridiculous.
I mostly agree, but I basically would hold them to a lower standard for prosecution.They dont have the option of retreating. My gut just tells me that if you ask people to charge into the situations cops have to get involved in, then you need something well beyond a bad or unjustified shooting to charge a crime like manslaughter.
Im not sure if that is technically a different standard. There are few analogies in civilian-on-civilian shootings to the police arrest/detention scenarios.
No it's mentioned more because as you said Black people (not all black people are african americans BTW) are shot disproportionately more.
Wow that is brutal. I have no words for this, just sadness.
I thought LE used 9MM's (for pistols) or 40cal, but it looked like that officer had a rifle on the trunk of the cop car, probably because of the distance - if he's even the officer who shot him.
I only shoot a 9mm pistol and a remington 700 rifle with .300WM ammo, and i cannot see either feeling like a mosquito bite when someone is hit - especially the rifle but the 9 packs a punch too IMO.
adrenaline?
Maybe I could see it if they used a 22 and hit a fleshy part of the thigh, but not sure the police use 22 cal rifles. Maybe they do.
Quote:who do they hire for cops? Spiccoli?
Maybe he thought it was Mr. Hand?
Zed's dead.
I thought LE used 9MM's (for pistols) or 40cal, but it looked like that officer had a rifle on the trunk of the cop car, probably because of the distance - if he's even the officer who shot him.
I only shoot a 9mm pistol and a remington 700 rifle with .300WM ammo, and i cannot see either feeling like a mosquito bite when someone is hit - especially the rifle but the 9 packs a punch too IMO.
adrenaline?
Maybe I could see it if they used a 22 and hit a fleshy part of the thigh, but not sure the police use 22 cal rifles. Maybe they do.
probably adrenaline and shock.
"I like him. He's a really nice fish"
Is anyone really doing that, though?
What did cops get away with when cell phones didnt exist?
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?
Is anyone really doing that, though?
Probably as miniscule percentage of bad protesters in the world. However, the bad cops and the small percentage of unruly protesters dominate headlines.
on the one hand, the situation seems non threatening.
on the other hand, why wouldn't the actual shooting be part of the video provided?
is it part of the video that a cop (was it the cop doing the shooting, a cop who was there at the time of the shooting, or a cop who showed up afterward?) says I don't know? the guy who was shot is quoted in the article, but again the video wouldn't play for me.
As usual, wait for the investigation to be completed. Don't assume that if the end result doesn't match your snap judgment that there's a coverup.
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Locked up for 1-2 years? He should be charged with attempted murder.
What did cops get away with when cell phones didnt exist?
Attempted murder for shooting him in the leg?
Ummmm. Yeah- let's require that attempted murder requires a gunshot to the head or torso so that the next time I'm unsucessful at it because I missed and hit my target in the leg, I can't be charged. Makes a ton of sense.
If you've been paying attention to any of these threads, you'll have learned that the idea of "shoot him in the leg" or arm or whatever is not how police or military are trained to operate. Once you are in a situation to use deadly force, you always aim center mass. That's how you are trained. This isn't Starsky and Hutch.
However, a cop, whose job it is to enforce public safety, who has been notified there's a person with a weapon and is authorized to question the populace is a different matter.
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In comment 13040159 Old Dirty Beckham said:
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Locked up for 1-2 years? He should be charged with attempted murder.
What did cops get away with when cell phones didnt exist?
Attempted murder for shooting him in the leg?
Ummmm. Yeah- let's require that attempted murder requires a gunshot to the head or torso so that the next time I'm unsucessful at it because I missed and hit my target in the leg, I can't be charged. Makes a ton of sense.
If you've been paying attention to any of these threads, you'll have learned that the idea of "shoot him in the leg" or arm or whatever is not how police or military are trained to operate. Once you are in a situation to use deadly force, you always aim center mass. That's how you are trained. This isn't Starsky and Hutch.
The problem is njms very link showed the massive difference- the arrest and charges of those suspects is so massively different then what happens to cops who do similar actions. Since there is basically no repercussions of being a cop who shoots unarmed civilians, those with any kind of itchy trigger finger have no fear of reprisal for scratching it.
All the whattaboutism in the world get thrown at this issue
"yea a cop shot an unarmed black man but what about Al Sharpton/Beyoncé/The Media making it worse?"
"Yea a cop shot an unarmed black man but what about the "fact" BLM are terrorists!"
Of course the old standby-
"Yea a cop shot an unarmed black man but what about the fact he had a criminal record?"
This!
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Played by those on other side of the issue so much. njm did it in this thread. "Yea here's a cop who shot a guy laying on the floor but what about these other guys who shot cops?"
The problem is njms very link showed the massive difference- the arrest and charges of those suspects is so massively different then what happens to cops who do similar actions. Since there is basically no repercussions of being a cop who shoots unarmed civilians, those with any kind of itchy trigger finger have no fear of reprisal for scratching it.
All the whattaboutism in the world get thrown at this issue
"yea a cop shot an unarmed black man but what about Al Sharpton/Beyoncé/The Media making it worse?"
"Yea a cop shot an unarmed black man but what about the "fact" BLM are terrorists!"
Of course the old standby-
"Yea a cop shot an unarmed black man but what about the fact he had a criminal record?"
This!
Exactly, great post
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In comment 13040306 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
In comment 13040293 Keith said:
Quote:
It bothers me that it was important to write that he's a "black" therapist. The way the media writes these stories doesn't help society move forward.
I get your point but they are trying to point out that this won't have likely happened had it been a white therapist..
No, this is actually a legitimate issue and it happens constantly. The media is constantly defining minorities by their race but omit it when the person in question is white. I see this constantly. It shouldn't be that way.
That's bc minorities are being shot by the fucking cops. That's why they make mention of their race.
Whites are being shot by cops as well but you never see it reported on the news.
- giants24
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In comment 13040512 Matt M. said:
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In comment 13040159 Old Dirty Beckham said:
Quote:
Locked up for 1-2 years? He should be charged with attempted murder.
What did cops get away with when cell phones didnt exist?
Attempted murder for shooting him in the leg?
Ummmm. Yeah- let's require that attempted murder requires a gunshot to the head or torso so that the next time I'm unsucessful at it because I missed and hit my target in the leg, I can't be charged. Makes a ton of sense.
If you've been paying attention to any of these threads, you'll have learned that the idea of "shoot him in the leg" or arm or whatever is not how police or military are trained to operate. Once you are in a situation to use deadly force, you always aim center mass. That's how you are trained. This isn't Starsky and Hutch.
First, I thought their training was to aim for extremities to disarm/disable the suspect, unless they deem lethal force absolutely necessary. Second, you would have to be able to prove the officer was shooting to kill for attempted murder to stick. I think it would be difficult to get a conviction for that, as opposed to a lesser charge in a case like this.
No. The shoot to disable is only on TV.
I doubt he went there with the intent to kill or had malice which I understand to be conditions of 1st and 2nd degree murder.
Initial thoughts from me is he was just under- or un-qualified for the situation he was in, and it almost resulted in a man's life - where he had intent, but not intent to kill.
What did cops get away with when cell phones didnt exist?
This: https://storycorps.org/animation/traffic-stop/
I doubt he went there with the intent to kill or had malice which I understand to be conditions of 1st and 2nd degree murder.
Agree. Attempted manslaughter.
By the way ,the article says the North Miami police chief is 30 years old. Ummmm.... what?