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Nikita Whitlock: does he still have value as a pass rusher?

chopperhatch : 7/21/2016 8:20 pm
It seemed to me he caused some problems with his whirling dervish routine but was silenced when teams focused on him on 3rd down. Mostly because we had nobody else to cause a threat save for,maybe Ayers. Would he be more of a mismatch inside now that we have made so many upgrades on the D line? I dont remember him being that effective on short yardage but maybe as part of a jumbo package he can pop open a hole.
I think they would be foolish not to at least  
robbieballs2003 : 7/21/2016 8:28 pm : link
consider him there in spots. We have the horses up front with our starting 4 but after that are a ton of question marks. In a perfect world we do not need him on D but we should all know that perfect rarely works out.
I think he does have rushing value  
adamg : 7/21/2016 8:29 pm : link
But not enough to warrant a roster spot if Johnson is as good blocking wise as has been touted.
Unless there is an injury  
pjcas18 : 7/21/2016 8:32 pm : link
I'd be surprised if he makes the team.

I think either he or Will Johnson make it and not both.

I don't think his spin move is going to be enough to separate him from Will Johnson. I think the Giants may value Johnsons offensive versatility more than the novelty Whitlock presents.

but I do think he'll have a fair shake in camp to win the job.
I have brought him up on other threads  
SGMen : 7/21/2016 9:02 pm : link
You need pleasant surprises every year to get better. Guys that sort of come out of nowhere to do much better than you'd ever have imagined.

This was the case for us in 2007 when Boss and Bradshaw came on late in the season, playing better than their draft positions would have made you believe.

This happened in 2011 with WR Victor Cruz who just shocked the NFL.

We need to catch a break and have a pass rush specialist bust out this year. FB Nikita Whitlock flashed in spots last year and it was only his first season. He weighed only 235 last year as well, not big enough for DL but we had limitd options and he played.

He has bulked up to 250. If he can get to the QB, the NFL's 2nd most important job after QB'ing play, well he finds a roster spot and becomes the de facto backup FB as well. He knows the defensive scheme and offensive scheme better this year.

He was a solid rusher in college who now has an off-season under his belt; who has bulked up; who has the heart and motor necessary. Lets see what he does in camp before we count him out.

How great of a story would it be if he wrecked havoc on 3rd and longs and ended up with 8+ sacks? He is also an ace special teams player. You find a spot for a backup FB, pass rush DL specialist and special teamer. You just do and I hope we have the NFL's feel good story with him this year.
I'd pretty certain he won't make the roster barring an injury.  
j_rud : 7/21/2016 9:09 pm : link
He's not good enough of a pass rusher to make the team on that alone. He's got to make it as a FB first, and I think he left a lot to be desired in that area. I think Hynoski was better.
Seems like people figured him out pretty quick  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 7/21/2016 9:19 pm : link
Unless he has improved a lot, I would think his days as a Giant are numbered.
He's a one trick pony  
Bill in UT : 7/21/2016 9:30 pm : link
and now that teams have caught on to it, I don't think he'll be much of a factor
Whitlock will be remembered as an interesting....  
MOOPS : 7/21/2016 9:44 pm : link
anecdote who spent one year on a mostly pitiful Giants roster.
RE: Seems like people figured him out pretty quick  
SGMen : 7/21/2016 10:09 pm : link
In comment 13041122 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
Unless he has improved a lot, I would think his days as a Giant are numbered.
Improvement is what you hope for and what I think we'll see. The question is just has he improved enough to warrant a "special spot" on the roster.

He is NOT winning the FB job over Johnson. No chance.
No  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/21/2016 10:12 pm : link
I'll be surprised if he makes the team. The fact he played last year is an indication of how bad the team was.
RE: No  
SGMen : 7/21/2016 10:16 pm : link
In comment 13041152 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
I'll be surprised if he makes the team. The fact he played last year is an indication of how bad the team was.
Hyno likely wasn't healthy enough anymore....and that is the NFL....so Whitlock stuck.

I think Nikita Whitlock has upside though. I'm going to hedge a bet he shows some skills rushing, improved FB skills and of course he solid on specials. Just have to see if all that is enough to package and make it viable to keep him. The pass rushing is the key.

If he goes from one trick pony to two trick pony and a better pony at that he may surprise. I am hopeful.
It will be interesting to watch  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/21/2016 10:21 pm : link
.
Probably will be the only Giant ever named Nikita.  
Del Shofner : 7/21/2016 10:50 pm : link
Back in the Cold War days, you wouldn't have wanted that as your name.
I agree with mostly everyone  
chopperhatch : 7/21/2016 11:15 pm : link
Here. However having him play fullback in a jumbo with Johnson at H back as a hole puncher as well as getting after the qb on 3rd and 8+ creates value that might supercede one of these other guys who are exceedingle average on defense. If we have pass rushers on D, putting him up against guards is still a mismatch in our favor.
I don't think you'll ever see a jumbo BF with him and Johnson  
grizz299 : 7/22/2016 12:00 am : link
but it would be fun like watching the hefty lefty qb coming in on third and short.

TC always disdained the QB sneak though Brady has made a living from it.
Parcell won games and seasons with fake punts, I hope we see different flavors like that from this coach.
I think his playing  
joeinpa : 7/22/2016 7:31 am : link
DT was more a sad commentary on the Giants D LINE than a reflection on his prowess as a pass rusher
he doesn't even have value as a FB  
Victor in CT : 7/22/2016 8:29 am : link
if he has to line up on DL they are in TROUBLE. He probably shouldn't be on team.
How many years did it take him  
Doomster : 7/22/2016 9:27 am : link
to learn how to slide? And he still hasn't perfected it yet....forget the qb sneak....

I seriously doubt Whitlock makes this team....
I expect THIS DL  
old man : 7/22/2016 10:59 am : link
to be very effective, thereby fitting into his style and his quickness. So I can see him fitting into that role.
RE: I expect THIS DL  
Victor in CT : 7/22/2016 11:07 am : link
In comment 13041558 old man said:
Quote:
to be very effective, thereby fitting into his style and his quickness. So I can see him fitting into that role.


If THIS DL is in fact very effective, why would they need a ham & egger FB to play on it?
Yes he does Like the Ace in the deck of cards at the right moment  
Elite Mobster #32 : 7/22/2016 1:04 pm : link
I'm going to humor you about this thread. Usually you are very rude and close minded to everyone! In this case you would like serious consideration for your question. Chopper I think Nikita is a player Giants, can plug into roles all over the field. He is a bruiser. who can play in the backfield the D- Line, special teams, and he doesn't have to score on any of those teams to be appreciated. He just has to disrupt. Which he is very capable of doing to other teams for the Giants.
Doubt he makes the squad and.....  
Bluesbreaker : 7/22/2016 2:18 pm : link
Will Johnson is a Lock barring Injury .
I give him credit though and he may get picked up if a key
fullback goes down .
Admire his effort and I hope he makes it somewhere .
RE: Yes he does Like the Ace in the deck of cards at the right moment  
SGMen : 7/22/2016 2:48 pm : link
In comment 13041778 Elite Mobster #32 said:
Quote:
I'm going to humor you about this thread. Usually you are very rude and close minded to everyone! In this case you would like serious consideration for your question. Chopper I think Nikita is a player Giants, can plug into roles all over the field. He is a bruiser. who can play in the backfield the D- Line, special teams, and he doesn't have to score on any of those teams to be appreciated. He just has to disrupt. Which he is very capable of doing to other teams for the Giants.
Versatility is the name of the game along with being solid. I think FB DL Nikita Whitlock has a great motor and heart for special teams. I think it is his second year and he'll improve as a FB and pass rush specialist DL

The big question is simple: just how good can he get as a pass rusher? The only chance he has to make this team is if he surprises and gets to the QB in pre-season games and camp. If he has developed some pass rush moves and his improved size from 235 to 250 hasn't cost him quickness he'll produce. I truly believe that about him.

I'm a guy who always roots for the little guy. If he can get to the QB, play FB better and be a superb special teamer he has a shot for a spot.
RE: Unless there is an injury  
Johnny5 : 7/22/2016 2:59 pm : link
In comment 13041095 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
I'd be surprised if he makes the team.

I think either he or Will Johnson make it and not both.

I don't think his spin move is going to be enough to separate him from Will Johnson. I think the Giants may value Johnsons offensive versatility more than the novelty Whitlock presents.

but I do think he'll have a fair shake in camp to win the job.

I agree sadly... I like Whitlock. And with a beefed up DL this year, I think he can definitely present even more challenges to other teams as a pass rusher. I just don't see a roster spot for him though.
RE: RE: Unless there is an injury  
SGMen : 7/22/2016 3:05 pm : link
In comment 13041970 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 13041095 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


I'd be surprised if he makes the team.

I think either he or Will Johnson make it and not both.

I don't think his spin move is going to be enough to separate him from Will Johnson. I think the Giants may value Johnsons offensive versatility more than the novelty Whitlock presents.

but I do think he'll have a fair shake in camp to win the job.


I agree sadly... I like Whitlock. And with a beefed up DL this year, I think he can definitely present even more challenges to other teams as a pass rusher. I just don't see a roster spot for him though.
If he surprises and excels rushing the QB; improves as a pure FB; and can play on all the special team units you can find a spot for him. I mean, would it be a stretch to see the roster look like TE Tye, Adams, Johnson and FB Nikita Whitlock? One injury can change the TE makeup as well.

Bottom line: if this kid can get to the QB, you make a roster spot for him. Getting to the QB is the key to good defense in today's pass happy league. If he can create matchup problems as that "little guy with the non-stop motor" who just makes plays he sticks.
I don't know if I'm the only one who  
adamg : 7/23/2016 3:08 am : link
didn't know it. But, Whitlock was actually a DE as a college player at Wake Forest (2010-2013). He's listed as a G/DL on sports-reference, so he may have done red zone blocking as well.

So, he had 18.5 career sacks in college (3.0, 3.5, 3.0, and 9.0 sacks per year respectively) and he played at 5'11'' and 250 lbs. in that role. He also had 48 tackles for loss.

So, I take back my statement. If they like him as a blocker and specials guy, and they think he's a potential aspect of the NASCAR lineup or some type of rushing LB role. He could fill several slots on the depth chart. And, like was hinted earlier, maybe Donnell gets a short leash and they can end up going Tye, Adams, Johnson, Whitlock.
RE: I don't know if I'm the only one who  
chopperhatch : 7/23/2016 3:42 am : link
In comment 13042484 adamg said:
Quote:
didn't know it. But, Whitlock was actually a DE as a college player at Wake Forest (2010-2013). He's listed as a G/DL on sports-reference, so he may have done red zone blocking as well.

So, he had 18.5 career sacks in college (3.0, 3.5, 3.0, and 9.0 sacks per year respectively) and he played at 5'11'' and 250 lbs. in that role. He also had 48 tackles for loss.

So, I take back my statement. If they like him as a blocker and specials guy, and they think he's a potential aspect of the NASCAR lineup or some type of rushing LB role. He could fill several slots on the depth chart. And, like was hinted earlier, maybe Donnell gets a short leash and they can end up going Tye, Adams, Johnson, Whitlock.


The main thing is if we can find a roster spot for him. But a 5'11" 250 lb guy who understands leverage and can be moved arou,d can be an interesting piece to have. Like it or not,he did create problems for OL last year. There was also a point when HE was the primary focus from o linemen. Having him, Vernon, Diggy and JPP on the DL on 3rd and longs would be a fast fast D LINE to face.
RE: I don't know if I'm the only one who  
SGMen : 7/23/2016 3:45 am : link
In comment 13042484 adamg said:
Quote:
didn't know it. But, Whitlock was actually a DE as a college player at Wake Forest (2010-2013). He's listed as a G/DL on sports-reference, so he may have done red zone blocking as well.

So, he had 18.5 career sacks in college (3.0, 3.5, 3.0, and 9.0 sacks per year respectively) and he played at 5'11'' and 250 lbs. in that role. He also had 48 tackles for loss.

So, I take back my statement. If they like him as a blocker and specials guy, and they think he's a potential aspect of the NASCAR lineup or some type of rushing LB role. He could fill several slots on the depth chart. And, like was hinted earlier, maybe Donnell gets a short leash and they can end up going Tye, Adams, Johnson, Whitlock.
Versatiltiy is key to my reasoning that Whitlock may just make this team IF he shows he can rush the passer in camp. If he doesn't show solid pass rush in camp he has no chance to make this team.

Having a backup FB, pass rush specialist and full-time special teamer is NOT a bad thing. He could very well take TE Larry Donnell's roster spot as you noted. He'd also be a real feel good story, a guy with a great motor and attitude and locker rooms need guys like that.
I just think its a Numbers Game  
Bluesbreaker : 7/23/2016 1:54 pm : link
With the Johnson signing and the potentially deep draft
class it would take an unforeseen Injury or a surprising
cut for him to make it . Maybe Donnell with the injury issue
being a somewhat risky one that could be a spot for Nikita
I don't dislike the guy but it shows more about how piss
poor our defense was more than anything else .
RE: I just think its a Numbers Game  
SGMen : 7/23/2016 6:20 pm : link
In comment 13042739 Bluesbreaker said:
Quote:
With the Johnson signing and the potentially deep draft
class it would take an unforeseen Injury or a surprising
cut for him to make it . Maybe Donnell with the injury issue
being a somewhat risky one that could be a spot for Nikita
I don't dislike the guy but it shows more about how piss
poor our defense was more than anything else .
I agree. Based on the body of work we have seen to date it isn't likely FB/DE Nikita Whitlock makes it.

However, guys tend to improve year #1 to year #2 the most. If he can rush the passer in camp and flashes well in preseason games, assuming he's even given the opportunity, how do you let a pass rusher go? You can't. He was solid in college and got snaps last year so I'm hopeful for a HUGE surprise.

If he can backup at FB and play on all the special teams units he has a shot. An outside shot. A "who is the 53rd man we keep" kind of shot.
Yeah but not on the Giants roster  
The Tempest : 7/23/2016 6:26 pm : link
The Colts haven't shown the same unwillingness to play smaller than average players on their defensive line. Giants seem terrified at the prospect.
RE: Yeah but not on the Giants roster  
SGMen : 7/23/2016 6:31 pm : link
In comment 13042897 The Tempest said:
Quote:
The Colts haven't shown the same unwillingness to play smaller than average players on their defensive line. Giants seem terrified at the prospect.
Why not let him try pass rushing as the de facto 5th DL, stunting and such? I mean, if a guy has the quickness, motor and moves (not sure Nikita Whitlock does here...) you find ways to use him where he isn't right over an OL that can mow down his 250 pound frame.

I realize it is but a "dream" to think he could flourish as a pass rusher but it is pre-season so why not dream? If he hadn't been so productive his senior year as a rusher AND if he hadn't lined up on defense last year a bit I wouldn't even be going here but he did so I hope for the best. His size is a concern but there are NFL starting DE's that are in the 250's.
RE: RE: Yeah but not on the Giants roster  
The Tempest : 7/23/2016 11:14 pm : link
In comment 13042901 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 13042897 The Tempest said:
Quote:The Colts haven't shown the same unwillingness to play smaller than average players on their defensive line. Giants seem terrified at the prospect.

Why not let him try pass rushing as the de facto 5th DL, stunting and such? I mean, if a guy has the quickness, motor and moves (not sure Nikita Whitlock does here...) you find ways to use him where he isn't right over an OL that can mow down his 250 pound frame.

I realize it is but a "dream" to think he could flourish as a pass rusher but it is pre-season so why not dream? If he hadn't been so productive his senior year as a rusher AND if he hadn't lined up on defense last year a bit I wouldn't even be going here but he did so I hope for the best. His size is a concern but there are NFL starting DE's that are in the 250's.


The other factor besides his weight is his height. I hope he gets the opportunity to do so this year with the Giants.
RE: RE: I just think its a Numbers Game  
pjcas18 : 7/23/2016 11:25 pm : link
In comment 13042894 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 13042739 Bluesbreaker said:


Quote:


With the Johnson signing and the potentially deep draft
class it would take an unforeseen Injury or a surprising
cut for him to make it . Maybe Donnell with the injury issue
being a somewhat risky one that could be a spot for Nikita
I don't dislike the guy but it shows more about how piss
poor our defense was more than anything else .

I agree. Based on the body of work we have seen to date it isn't likely FB/DE Nikita Whitlock makes it.

However, guys tend to improve year #1 to year #2 the most. If he can rush the passer in camp and flashes well in preseason games, assuming he's even given the opportunity, how do you let a pass rusher go? You can't. He was solid in college and got snaps last year so I'm hopeful for a HUGE surprise.

If he can backup at FB and play on all the special teams units he has a shot. An outside shot. A "who is the 53rd man we keep" kind of shot.


Technically this is not year 1 to year 2 for Whitlock, he was a UDFA in 2014 and the Giants are his 3rd team.

First one he stuck with so maybe that's what you meant, but he's been around (the league) a little while.

Plus, also interesting I found out Whitlock has already received a 4-game suspension for the league - no specific details were announced, but you have to assume he's in the program (either PED or drugs) and that can't help him.
RE: RE: Yeah but not on the Giants roster  
chopperhatch : 7/23/2016 11:48 pm : link
In comment 13042901 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 13042897 The Tempest said:


Quote:


The Colts haven't shown the same unwillingness to play smaller than average players on their defensive line. Giants seem terrified at the prospect.

Why not let him try pass rushing as the de facto 5th DL


Because if there is a guy to be developed into a starting position like Romeo Okwara who has a legit NFL frame. Its one thing if the guy played like the Doug Flutie of D linemen, but he didnt. All he did was flash. Same goes for Donte Deayon.

I know I argued for him before, but you asked why not. Well, the why not is if you have better players with NFL size.
RE: RE: RE: I just think its a Numbers Game  
SGMen : 7/24/2016 12:11 am : link
In comment 13043108 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13042894 SGMen said:


Quote:


In comment 13042739 Bluesbreaker said:


Quote:


With the Johnson signing and the potentially deep draft
class it would take an unforeseen Injury or a surprising
cut for him to make it . Maybe Donnell with the injury issue
being a somewhat risky one that could be a spot for Nikita
I don't dislike the guy but it shows more about how piss
poor our defense was more than anything else .

I agree. Based on the body of work we have seen to date it isn't likely FB/DE Nikita Whitlock makes it.

However, guys tend to improve year #1 to year #2 the most. If he can rush the passer in camp and flashes well in preseason games, assuming he's even given the opportunity, how do you let a pass rusher go? You can't. He was solid in college and got snaps last year so I'm hopeful for a HUGE surprise.

If he can backup at FB and play on all the special teams units he has a shot. An outside shot. A "who is the 53rd man we keep" kind of shot.



Technically this is not year 1 to year 2 for Whitlock, he was a UDFA in 2014 and the Giants are his 3rd team.

First one he stuck with so maybe that's what you meant, but he's been around (the league) a little while.

Plus, also interesting I found out Whitlock has already received a 4-game suspension for the league - no specific details were announced, but you have to assume he's in the program (either PED or drugs) and that can't help him.
2015 I thought was the first time he actually played.
Technically it was  
The Tempest : 7/24/2016 8:33 am : link
The first time Whitlock played in the NFL. He was an UDFA pickup in May 2014 by the Bengals and began the transition to FB. Didn't make it out of training camp and cut at the end of August. He was on the Cowboys roster for all of a week and had a workout with Ravens. Giants is the only team he has spent significant time with. His suspension by the NFL happened when he wasn't even on an NFL roster, go figure that one out!
RE: Technically it was  
SGMen : 7/24/2016 9:56 am : link
In comment 13043197 The Tempest said:
Quote:
The first time Whitlock played in the NFL. He was an UDFA pickup in May 2014 by the Bengals and began the transition to FB. Didn't make it out of training camp and cut at the end of August. He was on the Cowboys roster for all of a week and had a workout with Ravens. Giants is the only team he has spent significant time with. His suspension by the NFL happened when he wasn't even on an NFL roster, go figure that one out!
Interesting. This is all new news to me so thanks.

I still say, after reading all of this, that if FB Whitlock worked on both his defensive pass rush as well as his FB skills this off-season you give him a shot for a spot!

I just have hope that he surprises as a pass rusher, a guy you can create matchup issues with because he has some skills, a great motor and desire. Again, he was successful in college and got some spot duty on defense last year. He wasn't spectacular but flashed some.

He is also solid on special teams. So his versatility as a backup FB, special teamer and specialist pass rusher could be enough to make him stick. This is especially true of say TE Donnell is not showing well due to his neck or something.
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