Judging by the fact that it is past 9:00AM and we haven't gotten any news, I am guessing the arbitration has began.
IMO, I do not think this is a good sign. I always said I thought it was going to be a long term deal or a trade. Hoping for the former, but at this point it seems unlikely.
What do you guys think? I think if we hear about a 1 year deal, a trade will soon follow. But I could be way off, just a guess from a fan without any real inside info.
The skill level of goalies is staggering. It took until the first generation of hybrid goalies were retired and advising/coaching the 2nd generation to get there. But goalies are just technicians right now, which I say in the most complimentary way. Watching the stand up era goalies is like watching a different sport.
Vally went into Price's technique on a telecast at some point in the last few years and it was pretty amazing. Talking about how Price worked on how he moved his head and how that improved his mobility and reaction time. Just crazy stuff.
This might help a little. It was a bigger deal in the stand up era, when goalies did not have good lateral movement.
The skill and athleticism levels in the league right now just dwarf what we saw 15-40 years ago. There arent immobile goalies defended by boxers on skates to take advantage of anymore.
I think two subtle ways they could increase scoring without necessarily increasing net sizes is to move the goals out a little bit from the ends to increase space behind the nets to make plays and two, to somehow change/slope the posts so that any shot that hits the post basically goes in.
Oh and get rid of the goddamn off-side challenges. If the ref missed a guy a half stride offside sometimes 15 seconds before an actual goal is scored... so be it. They miss far more penalties / power play opportunities over the course of a game.
Agree with all this. When they overturn a goal because a guys skate was in the air at the blue line but not over it after a 5 minute review it makes no sense. I also am not a fan of the lack of judgment with puck over the glass calls.
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I think two subtle ways they could increase scoring without necessarily increasing net sizes is to move the goals out a little bit from the ends to increase space behind the nets to make plays and two
This might help a little. It was a bigger deal in the stand up era, when goalies did not have good lateral movement.
The skill and athleticism levels in the league right now just dwarf what we saw 15-40 years ago. There arent immobile goalies defended by boxers on skates to take advantage of anymore.
International play the rink is almost 3 feet further out from the end boards than in North American (NHL) rinks (not to mention wider, but that's irrelevant to this comment)
The NA style supposedly is conducive to more physical play, the European style rink more finesse, but I have no idea how much those 2+ feet behind the net make a difference.
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They need to shrink goalie pads, enlarge the net, or both. Goalies are huge now and they have gigantic pads. For those two reasons alone, it's harder to score than it was 20+ years ago.
The skill level of goalies is staggering. It took until the first generation of hybrid goalies were retired and advising/coaching the 2nd generation to get there. But goalies are just technicians right now, which I say in the most complimentary way. Watching the stand up era goalies is like watching a different sport.
Vally went into Price's technique on a telecast at some point in the last few years and it was pretty amazing. Talking about how Price worked on how he moved his head and how that improved his mobility and reaction time. Just crazy stuff.
I'm all for making the goalie equipment smaller, but the problem they'll argue back with is that guys are shooting the puck much harder now, sticks are better - maybe they'll so go back to wood sticks for the other players and then they will shrink the pads.
Price is one guy though who the larger pads don't necessarily benefit as much (they benefit all goalies) but you're right, he's as technically sound as any goalie around. He saves many shots he doesn't even see simply because positionally he's in the right place. He's also a see the shot save the shot goalie (rarely does he not save a non-deflected shot that he sees) so those two combined explain why he's so effective.
Henrik Lundqvist, 2016
The 5'9"-5'11" goalies of yesteryear couldn't play butterfly all that much because everyone would just go high and shoot over their shoulders to the corners.
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With Hayes signed, #NYR have settled all 4 arbitration filings and now have a buyout window open for next 48 hours.
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There's no real use for that money now anyway.
The only downside is that you carry a 1.25 cap hit from 2020-2024.
2016-17 the Rangers would regain a portion of Girardi's cap hit. It decreases gradually until 2020.
2016-17 3.75
2017-18 2.75
2018-19 1.75
2019-20 1.75
2020-21 -1.25
2021-22 -1.25
2022-23 -1.25
2023-24 -1.25
It depends on how you look at it.
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I'm fine giving Hayes and McIlraith prove it deals. I do worry about the latter only because our coach hasn't given him a shot, that's more on AV than the undertaker. hopefully he plays enough games this year to avoid becoming an UFA. Cant wait until he's healthy scratched for the thoroughly mediocre Colorado guy early in the season.
In two years we should have a pretty cheap defense I would think (McIlraith, Skjei, Bodie, Graves... only McD and [insert FA acquisition here] making coin) and with likely rise in the cap as commodity prices have stabilized... we should be able to re-sign these guys.
Once Stamkos re-signed there was no move out there Gorton could make to improve our contending chances in 2016-2017. Not enough cap space and not enough impact FAs on the market anyway.
We're retooling on the fly here and I'm ok with that. Nothing Gorton can do about these lousy defenseman NMCs - that's on Sather.
We'll fight with NJ, Boston and others for wild card spots this year but the medium term (2-4 yrs from now) for this franchise seems better today than it was a week ago.
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Are we any better? I would say Not at this time.
Once Stamkos re-signed there was no move out there Gorton could make to improve our contending chances in 2016-2017. Not enough cap space and not enough impact FAs on the market anyway.
We're retooling on the fly here and I'm ok with that. Nothing Gorton can do about these lousy defenseman NMCs - that's on Sather.
We'll fight with NJ, Boston and others for wild card spots this year but the medium term (2-4 yrs from now) for this franchise seems better today than it was a week ago.
Completely agree with you.
Getting better with two massive anchors was going to be a tough thing to do. I think we all knew that keeping Yandle was going to be extremely difficult, and if it were to happen, it would have probably been at the expense of Kreider or Hayes and possibly both. We can say all we want about buying out DG or Staal, but the fact is management wasn't going to do that.
With those facts in mind, the Brassard trade came out of left field, and seems to have been a damn good trade with future intentions in mind. Get younger, get cap space now, add a future pick. We lost production for next year, but hey, if MZ puts it together, it could be massive.
Kreider and Hayes we can all agree are both great contracts, even if we would have liked more term on Kreider. With around $3.2 to play with still that leaves us some leeway to play around in the trade market, even retain salary to hopefully get rid of an anchor.
I watched the first Rangers playoff game this year and thought this guy won't last the series, AV will replace him. He seemed jittery, forced his breakouts, and was so passive offensively in the transition and attack games it was like they were a man down. Solid defensively, but that's not enough in the playoffs.
By the end of the playoffs (as brief as it was) I thought he was the best all around defenseman on the team (given the McDonagh injury). I always liked Skjei from watching all the U17 and U18 US teams and I think he can be a legit top 4 D-man if he adds ANY type of offense. To me right now he's a good passer, but he's not quite involved enough in the play in the transition or offensive zone, but pair him with a more offensively minded D and it's fine. I think he'll get more comfortable with that with time.
He's another decent sized, but not very physical guy, but in his case, he still lays some good hits. Wish he'd do it more.
As for whether we're better, we had an awful lot of guys who had disastrous seasons. And very few guys who over performed. Adding in youth and the maturation of the power forwards (who take longer), we could very easily be a lot better this year. Basically, play the games. I dont think we're as bad as we looked at times last year.
As for whether we're better, we had an awful lot of guys who had disastrous seasons. And very few guys who over performed. Adding in youth and the maturation of the power forwards (who take longer), we could very easily be a lot better this year. Basically, play the games. I dont think we're as bad as we looked at times last year.
Agree about top 4 if he's paired with someone who has some offensive savvy. If not, you better hope it's like a matchup thing we're your line is opposite the other teams first line. Because he excels at positional D, just if he's not paired with someone who can jump into the play in the offensive zone I think that line won't be as effective scoring. I have no idea how long it would take him to develop that comfort, maybe not long at all, I was amazed at his metamorphosis from game 1 to game 2 in the PO's.
Do they have anyone else who might come up in the next year or two on the blueline besides Graves?
We have a lot of ok forward prospects we could probably move for similarly valued D prospects. And there is always the route of NCAA free agents, who should be drawn to our lack of young D depth.
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We knew he would take a discount to come to the Rangers. Shatty grew up as a Rangers and is willing to take a discount to come here ala so many others before him (still waiting for someone to say they actually want to come to the Islanders).
But like I said, even if we trade Nash in a deal for Shattenkirk, it'd essentially be robbing Peter to pay Paul because while we would've fixed our PMD/PP QB/top-four RD issue, we would've lost our only consistent goal scoring threat...that is, unless they're really confident in Buchnevich.
Skjei --- Dumba/Shattenkirk/Klein
Holden --- McIlrath/Girardi (but mostly McIlrath)
Graves/Girardi
And I think Staal gets traded
And worse comes to worse, we go forward with the guys we have now and sign Shattenkirk next offseason
I'm not just shoving him off for a mediocre pick or two, but I'm not against moving him.
Skjei --- Dumba/Shattenkirk/Klein
Holden --- McIlrath/Girardi (but mostly McIlrath)
Graves/Girardi
And I think Staal gets traded
To replace last year's D corpse, no doubt.
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I think two subtle ways ...
The skill and athleticism levels in the league right now just dwarf what we saw 15-40 years ago. There arent immobile goalies defended by boxers on skates to take advantage of anymore.
Deej, that's too broad and generalized. Rogie Vachon epitomized the stand-up goalie, and he was very athletic, gifted, quick. Even Giacomin was pretty athletic. And the first giant in the NHL nets, Ken Dryden, whom I saw play in college as well as in NHL, nicknamed the spider by some, was an all around athlete, not an immobile type more along the lines of Glenn Hall.
I'm not just shoving him off for a mediocre pick or two, but I'm not against moving him.
They explored dealing him last year and didn't get offered much in return. Maybe a second. He'd return even less now.
He is a good player but he'll always sadden me a bit in that 1) he was traded for del zotto who it turns out would have been a nice fit here the past two years and this year (and we wouldn't have needed yandle)
And 2- they had a choice of retaining one of hagelin or Klein... Chose Klein which turned out to be the poor choice
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But his value is as high now as it's ever going to be.
I'm not just shoving him off for a mediocre pick or two, but I'm not against moving him.
They explored dealing him last year and didn't get offered much in return. Maybe a second. He'd return even less now.
He is a good player but he'll always sadden me a bit in that 1) he was traded for del zotto who it turns out would have been a nice fit here the past two years and this year (and we wouldn't have needed yandle)
And 2- they had a choice of retaining one of hagelin or Klein... Chose Klein which turned out to be the poor choice
I don't understand you. Klein for Del Zotto has proven to be one of the best deals in Sather's tenure. And it wasn't Hagelin or Klein. You could argue it was Nash or Hagelin. Or Zuccarello or Hagelin. But Klein or Hagelin? One was under contract and one was not. BTW, who would've been our top-4 RD if not for Klein? Girardi, Boyle or McIlrath. Y-I-K-E-S.
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In comment 13042846 bigbluehoya said:
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But his value is as high now as it's ever going to be.
I'm not just shoving him off for a mediocre pick or two, but I'm not against moving him.
They explored dealing him last year and didn't get offered much in return. Maybe a second. He'd return even less now.
He is a good player but he'll always sadden me a bit in that 1) he was traded for del zotto who it turns out would have been a nice fit here the past two years and this year (and we wouldn't have needed yandle)
And 2- they had a choice of retaining one of hagelin or Klein... Chose Klein which turned out to be the poor choice
I don't understand you. Klein for Del Zotto has proven to be one of the best deals in Sather's tenure. And it wasn't Hagelin or Klein. You could argue it was Nash or Hagelin. Or Zuccarello or Hagelin. But Klein or Hagelin? One was under contract and one was not. BTW, who would've been our top-4 RD if not for Klein? Girardi, Boyle or McIlrath. Y-I-K-E-S.
I'm not sure how one concludes Klein is anything more than jag. I Like him but anyone who doesn't drool would take last years del zotto and the next 5 years of del zotto over Klein. The deal was fine on Sathers part but Sathers best trade starts and ends with mcdonaugh. No other trade comes within that zip code.
And yes both Klein and Hagelin as well as talbot were shopped last June. We had to fit under the cap and those were the two movable deals. We couldn't find a taker at a remotely decent price for Klein.
That RH pairing you listed above would not have performed worse than this years group by the way.
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In comment 13043301 MetsAreBack said:
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In comment 13042846 bigbluehoya said:
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But his value is as high now as it's ever going to be.
I'm not just shoving him off for a mediocre pick or two, but I'm not against moving him.
They explored dealing him last year and didn't get offered much in return. Maybe a second. He'd return even less now.
He is a good player but he'll always sadden me a bit in that 1) he was traded for del zotto who it turns out would have been a nice fit here the past two years and this year (and we wouldn't have needed yandle)
And 2- they had a choice of retaining one of hagelin or Klein... Chose Klein which turned out to be the poor choice
I don't understand you. Klein for Del Zotto has proven to be one of the best deals in Sather's tenure. And it wasn't Hagelin or Klein. You could argue it was Nash or Hagelin. Or Zuccarello or Hagelin. But Klein or Hagelin? One was under contract and one was not. BTW, who would've been our top-4 RD if not for Klein? Girardi, Boyle or McIlrath. Y-I-K-E-S.
I'm not sure how one concludes Klein is anything more than jag. I Like him but anyone who doesn't drool would take last years del zotto and the next 5 years of del zotto over Klein. The deal was fine on Sathers part but Sathers best trade starts and ends with mcdonaugh. No other trade comes within that zip code.
And yes both Klein and Hagelin as well as talbot were shopped last June. We had to fit under the cap and those were the two movable deals. We couldn't find a taker at a remotely decent price for Klein.
That RH pairing you listed above would not have performed worse than this years group by the way.
How is Klein a JAG? He's as solid of a 2nd pair guy as they come. Not only is he a solid defensive presence, but from the time he got traded to the Rangers he's been surprisingly great on offense. 18 goals the last two seasons is nothing to sneeze at. I'm not really sure how much else you can ask for him. He's much better than Del Zotto right now and the trade was a huge win, especially since Del Zotto was jettisoned from Nashville.
And the last part is also bullshit. Klein was on the top pair when AV finally came to his senses and demoted Girardi and there was finally some stability brought to the first pair. Girardi, Boyle and McIlrath were and are far inferior to Klein both on offense and defense (the jury is out on McIlrath). And it's simple: we didn't want to trade Klein last year. If we did, we would have. A guy with his stats, his locker room presence and his contract would surely net a very good return. In fact, most were afraid that he piqued last year and we should have traded him in order to get a good return. Well, he only duplicated his performance this season and surely if we want to, we could get a very good return.