NFT: NYR: Kreider Arbitration

...but I'm also not opposed to seeing how the first half of this season plays out and going from there.

I like our forward group. The D- is terrible, but the plan as Brett has said is maybe to use this year to get the younger guys some experience and hopefully rid ourselves of Girardi next June.... and pick up a guy like Shattenkirk for free a year from now.

NHL on NBC ‏@NHLonNBCSports
Report: Evander Kane arrested by Buffalo Police

what a waste of a tremendous talent.

In comment 13041610 MetsAreBack said:

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...but I'm also not opposed to seeing how the first half of this season plays out and going from there. I like our forward group. The D- is terrible, but the plan as Brett has said is maybe to use this year to get the younger guys some experience and hopefully rid ourselves of Girardi next June.... and pick up a guy like Shattenkirk for free a year from now.

And to be clear I'm not saying Hayes is a POS, I just don't think he'll get much better in terms of production with this personnel unless something changes.

I think his perceived value is higher than his actual value and the return could be good right now and if forward is a strength might use a guy who maybe has peaked to help improve other areas.

pj, I'm not sure what your argument on Hayes is - are you saying it would be a better fit to have a traditional 3C in Hayes' spot (and therefore might be worth trading him to enhance the defense) or are you just not optimistic on his ceiling?

I think he's got 50-60 point potential. Being on the third line likely limits his potential output, but I'd take a 40 point guy on the third line even if he struggles defensively.

In comment 13041612 Anakim said:

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NHL on NBC �@NHLonNBCSports Report: Evander Kane arrested by Buffalo Police

It's not a new incident, it's related to the bar incident

.

Hayes is a creator who has no one to create for. He's a slick passer and puckhandler but that means little when he's playing with grinders who lack the skill to do something with the chances he creates for them

In comment 13041629 Greg from LI said:

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Hayes is a creator who has no one to create for. He's a slick passer and puckhandler but that means little when he's playing with grinders who lack the skill to do something with the chances he creates for them

I think this is on point, but he needs to be more consistent on the backcheck to get the top 6 minutes

In comment 13041629 Greg from LI said:

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Hayes is a creator who has no one to create for. He's a slick passer and puckhandler but that means little when he's playing with grinders who lack the skill to do something with the chances he creates for them

I won't debate it, people see things differently. I remember watching him at BC with Johnny Gaudreau and feeling like wow, Hayes can really light the lamp, but man Gaudreau manufactured a lot of that success - and is the perfect player to pair with Hayes - though Hayes and Gaudreau were both wings then (centered by Bill Arnold).

I view Hayes as a complementary player, not a primary player.

Great if you can get him set up in that role, but if not you'll get what you get. Maybe a 40 - 50 pt guy (which is not someone awful), who struggles defensively at times and is not a clutch face-off guy. So IMO if he's not putting up 60+ points he's expendable.

I did also wonder why they made Hayes a center.

I agree with Greg - I see him make a lot of passes that get lost because the guy doesn't see the game as well as Hayes does. I thought him and Staal were playing well together before Staal hurt his shoulder.

I think this is a case of your impression of Hayes being based more on the player he was at BC than who he's been as a Ranger. If I'm not mistaken, he was tied for the NHL lead in primary assists in his rookie year.

If he played 2C with skilled linemates, I think he's a consistent 20-30-50 plus kind of player.

In comment 13041670 Greg from LI said:

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I think this is a case of your impression of Hayes being based more on the player he was at BC than who he's been as a Ranger. If I'm not mistaken, he was tied for the NHL lead in primary assists in his rookie year. If he played 2C with skilled linemates, I think he's a consistent 20-30-50 plus kind of player.

Possibly, I only really watched the rangers in the playoffs or if they were playing the Habs.

Playoffs he was invisible IMO.

last year too in the playoffs (he was young though), or close to invisible and he couldn't win a FO to save his life.

Wouldnt trade Hayes. Very promising rookie season. I think the locker room was somewhat broken last season, and he still has 65 point potential.

That's why I like Miller on his wing. Miller's not exactly a faceoff ace either, but he's significantly better than Hayes (47% career vs 36% career)

I blamed year one on MSL dying/rookie legs, but he was bad this year. Still shouldn't have been sat for Tanner, though.

Somewhat aside: 48 points would put you tied for 90th in scoring for forwards. A 50 point player is a first line guy now.

They need to shrink goalie pads, enlarge the net, or both. Goalies are huge now and they have gigantic pads. For those two reasons alone, it's harder to score than it was 20+ years ago.

it never really bothered me until we started facing Ben Bishop so much. The guy is able to tether tarmacs around his giant legs.

I think two subtle ways they could increase scoring without necessarily increasing net sizes is to move the goals out a little bit from the ends to increase space behind the nets to make plays and two, to somehow change/slope the posts so that any shot that hits the post basically goes in.

Oh and get rid of the goddamn off-side challenges. If the ref missed a guy a half stride offside sometimes 15 seconds before an actual goal is scored... so be it. They miss far more penalties / power play opportunities over the course of a game.

In comment 13041718 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

They need to shrink goalie pads, enlarge the net, or both. Goalies are huge now and they have gigantic pads. For those two reasons alone, it's harder to score than it was 20+ years ago.

The skill level of goalies is staggering. It took until the first generation of hybrid goalies were retired and advising/coaching the 2nd generation to get there. But goalies are just technicians right now, which I say in the most complimentary way. Watching the stand up era goalies is like watching a different sport.

Vally went into Price's technique on a telecast at some point in the last few years and it was pretty amazing. Talking about how Price worked on how he moved his head and how that improved his mobility and reaction time. Just crazy stuff.

compared to now. look at the goalie glove from the 70s. Its a 1B mitt with a wrist pad attached. Now they wear lobster traps.

In comment 13041737 MetsAreBack said:

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I think two subtle ways they could increase scoring without necessarily increasing net sizes is to move the goals out a little bit from the ends to increase space behind the nets to make plays and two

This might help a little. It was a bigger deal in the stand up era, when goalies did not have good lateral movement.

The skill and athleticism levels in the league right now just dwarf what we saw 15-40 years ago. There arent immobile goalies defended by boxers on skates to take advantage of anymore.

In comment 13041737 MetsAreBack said:

Quote:

it never really bothered me until we started facing Ben Bishop so much. The guy is able to tether tarmacs around his giant legs. I think two subtle ways they could increase scoring without necessarily increasing net sizes is to move the goals out a little bit from the ends to increase space behind the nets to make plays and two, to somehow change/slope the posts so that any shot that hits the post basically goes in. Oh and get rid of the goddamn off-side challenges. If the ref missed a guy a half stride offside sometimes 15 seconds before an actual goal is scored... so be it. They miss far more penalties / power play opportunities over the course of a game.

Agree with all this. When they overturn a goal because a guys skate was in the air at the blue line but not over it after a 5 minute review it makes no sense. I also am not a fan of the lack of judgment with puck over the glass calls.

In comment 13041766 Deej said:

Quote:

In comment 13041737 MetsAreBack said: Quote: I think two subtle ways they could increase scoring without necessarily increasing net sizes is to move the goals out a little bit from the ends to increase space behind the nets to make plays and two This might help a little. It was a bigger deal in the stand up era, when goalies did not have good lateral movement. The skill and athleticism levels in the league right now just dwarf what we saw 15-40 years ago. There arent immobile goalies defended by boxers on skates to take advantage of anymore.

International play the rink is almost 3 feet further out from the end boards than in North American (NHL) rinks (not to mention wider, but that's irrelevant to this comment)

The NA style supposedly is conducive to more physical play, the European style rink more finesse, but I have no idea how much those 2+ feet behind the net make a difference.

In comment 13041760 Deej said:

Quote:

In comment 13041718 Greg from LI said: Quote: They need to shrink goalie pads, enlarge the net, or both. Goalies are huge now and they have gigantic pads. For those two reasons alone, it's harder to score than it was 20+ years ago. The skill level of goalies is staggering. It took until the first generation of hybrid goalies were retired and advising/coaching the 2nd generation to get there. But goalies are just technicians right now, which I say in the most complimentary way. Watching the stand up era goalies is like watching a different sport. Vally went into Price's technique on a telecast at some point in the last few years and it was pretty amazing. Talking about how Price worked on how he moved his head and how that improved his mobility and reaction time. Just crazy stuff.

I'm all for making the goalie equipment smaller, but the problem they'll argue back with is that guys are shooting the puck much harder now, sticks are better - maybe they'll so go back to wood sticks for the other players and then they will shrink the pads.

Price is one guy though who the larger pads don't necessarily benefit as much (they benefit all goalies) but you're right, he's as technically sound as any goalie around. He saves many shots he doesn't even see simply because positionally he's in the right place. He's also a see the shot save the shot goalie (rarely does he not save a non-deflected shot that he sees) so those two combined explain why he's so effective.

John Vanbiesbrouck, 1986



Henrik Lundqvist, 2016

few decades, but on the other hand a lot of that technique is so effective largely because goalies are generally much bigger now wearing much bigger pads.

The 5'9"-5'11" goalies of yesteryear couldn't play butterfly all that much because everyone would just go high and shoot over their shoulders to the corners.

Hayes signed - 2 years, $2.6M AAV.

getting shit done

sorry I can't copy it in like Greg did. Look how small he looks in net. And he was 6'3" 215!
John Davidson photo - ( New Window )

Gorton definitely doing work this week.

and release Glass, then we'd really be cooking

fair contract.

go shopping.

Though nothing is going to happen.

Quote:

General Fanager ‏@generalfanager 11m11 minutes ago With Hayes signed, #NYR have settled all 4 arbitration filings and now have a buyout window open for next 48 hours.

Tweet - ( New Window )

With about 3.5 mil to play with

Offseason of summer 2018 is going to be pretty huge.

I'm not going to put myself through hoping for a buyout again

I don't see a reason for a buyout - it would have made some degree of sense if the team decided to give Miller and Hayes real term.

What's the downside?

I'd rather wait a year - the buyout cap hit ends a year earlier, the peak cap hit with him off the roster is less each year, and there's the chance that Girardi decides to retire if he has a comparably atrocious and injury-plagued year (60% of the total cash would be paid at the end of next year).

There's no real use for that money now anyway.

In comment 13042095 Greg from LI said:

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What's the downside?

The only downside is that you carry a 1.25 cap hit from 2020-2024.

2016-17 the Rangers would regain a portion of Girardi's cap hit. It decreases gradually until 2020.

2016-17 3.75
2017-18 2.75
2018-19 1.75
2019-20 1.75
2020-21 -1.25
2021-22 -1.25
2022-23 -1.25
2023-24 -1.25

It depends on how you look at it.

In my previous post I used General Fanager's buyout tool. In case you guys ever want to fool around with it yourselves.
Link - ( New Window )

Had a horrible year last year, but it is too early to give up on him yet, I think this 2 year deal is a good deal for the Rangers and enough time to see which direction this player is going. With the speedy players the Rangers have added, they may fit in perfect with a guy like Hayes. Rangers have added a lot of speed this off season. Josh Jooris (C,RW), Mika Zibanejad (C), Nathan Gerbe (C,RW), Michael Grabner (RW), Buchnevich (RW,LW), they all have good speed. You add Jesper fast to this list, who also has good speed and I think these are the type players that may bring out the best in Hayes, time will tell.

Are we any better? I would say Not at this time.

No use unless they have a trade possibility

and Gorton accomplished that. Would have liked to have gotten term with Miller too... but unfortunately IIRC his arb hearing was sooner than the others and before we knew the Brassard deal would go through.

I'm fine giving Hayes and McIlraith prove it deals. I do worry about the latter only because our coach hasn't given him a shot, that's more on AV than the undertaker. hopefully he plays enough games this year to avoid becoming an UFA. Cant wait until he's healthy scratched for the thoroughly mediocre Colorado guy early in the season.

In two years we should have a pretty cheap defense I would think (McIlraith, Skjei, Bodie, Graves... only McD and [insert FA acquisition here] making coin) and with likely rise in the cap as commodity prices have stabilized... we should be able to re-sign these guys.

In comment 13042116 Carl in CT said:

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Are we any better? I would say Not at this time.

Once Stamkos re-signed there was no move out there Gorton could make to improve our contending chances in 2016-2017. Not enough cap space and not enough impact FAs on the market anyway.

We're retooling on the fly here and I'm ok with that. Nothing Gorton can do about these lousy defenseman NMCs - that's on Sather.

We'll fight with NJ, Boston and others for wild card spots this year but the medium term (2-4 yrs from now) for this franchise seems better today than it was a week ago.

In comment 13042130 MetsAreBack said:

Quote:

In comment 13042116 Carl in CT said: Quote: Are we any better? I would say Not at this time. Once Stamkos re-signed there was no move out there Gorton could make to improve our contending chances in 2016-2017. Not enough cap space and not enough impact FAs on the market anyway. We're retooling on the fly here and I'm ok with that. Nothing Gorton can do about these lousy defenseman NMCs - that's on Sather. We'll fight with NJ, Boston and others for wild card spots this year but the medium term (2-4 yrs from now) for this franchise seems better today than it was a week ago.

Completely agree with you.

Getting better with two massive anchors was going to be a tough thing to do. I think we all knew that keeping Yandle was going to be extremely difficult, and if it were to happen, it would have probably been at the expense of Kreider or Hayes and possibly both. We can say all we want about buying out DG or Staal, but the fact is management wasn't going to do that.

With those facts in mind, the Brassard trade came out of left field, and seems to have been a damn good trade with future intentions in mind. Get younger, get cap space now, add a future pick. We lost production for next year, but hey, if MZ puts it together, it could be massive.

Kreider and Hayes we can all agree are both great contracts, even if we would have liked more term on Kreider. With around $3.2 to play with still that leaves us some leeway to play around in the trade market, even retain salary to hopefully get rid of an anchor.

is the guy on your D you can dream on IMO.

I watched the first Rangers playoff game this year and thought this guy won't last the series, AV will replace him. He seemed jittery, forced his breakouts, and was so passive offensively in the transition and attack games it was like they were a man down. Solid defensively, but that's not enough in the playoffs.

By the end of the playoffs (as brief as it was) I thought he was the best all around defenseman on the team (given the McDonagh injury). I always liked Skjei from watching all the U17 and U18 US teams and I think he can be a legit top 4 D-man if he adds ANY type of offense. To me right now he's a good passer, but he's not quite involved enough in the play in the transition or offensive zone, but pair him with a more offensively minded D and it's fine. I think he'll get more comfortable with that with time.

He's another decent sized, but not very physical guy, but in his case, he still lays some good hits. Wish he'd do it more.

around the team's neck. Given the situation he inherited from Sather, that's pretty good work.