for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: Mass shooting at Munich shoping center

njm : 7/22/2016 1:36 pm
Varying accounts, all with at least 1 fatality. Reuters has the highest death toll at 15
Pages: 1 2 3 4 <<Prev | Show All |
Once can take comfort in the fact that we live in the safest, most  
Cam in MO : 7/23/2016 10:24 pm : link
peaceful time in human history while still recognizing that we are more at risk of terror attacks and mass shootings than we were 20yrs ago. You can also recognize how remote the chance of being killed in an attack is (incredibly) while arguing that something needs to be done to get that possibility to zero. They aren't mutually exclusive. Not everyone who argues for action against ISIS et al is driven by fear. Many are driven by compassion.



We can also acknowledge...  
Dunedin81 : 7/23/2016 11:09 pm : link
that while things are relatively safe in the West, that in certain parts of the West the potential for violence and bloodshed is significant and the threat to values is also significant. The notion, for instance, that one religion is above satire and ridicule because people acting in its name are liable to commit acts of violence in response is and should be anathema to us. Moreover, ISIS and fellow travelers throughout the world are visiting death and destruction upon people in some corners of the world, from Syria to Kabul, and for them it is tough to argue that the world is safer than it was thirty odd years ago.
I don't see anyone arguing against fighting ISIS  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/24/2016 9:27 am : link
I'm all for fighting them with limited troop deployments.

I agree the world is dangerous. It will always be dangerous.

I don't see any benefit in exaggerating the danger on US soil.
RE: I don't see anyone arguing against fighting ISIS  
Big Al : 7/24/2016 9:30 am : link
In comment 13043223 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
I'm all for fighting them with limited troop deployments.

I agree the world is dangerous. It will always be dangerous.

I don't see any benefit in exaggerating the danger on US soil.
not minimizing it.
Nor  
Big Al : 7/24/2016 9:30 am : link
:
Al  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/24/2016 9:52 am : link
We are drowning in information while starving for wisdom - Facebook
RE: Al  
Big Al : 7/24/2016 9:54 am : link
In comment 13043237 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
We are drowning in information while starving for wisdom - Facebook
Thank goodness for all the wisdom I find in my feed on Facebook.
Best summary I have ever heard of Facebook:  
Stu11 : 7/24/2016 12:05 pm : link
"Hey I discovered this new app that tells me which of my friends are racists...its called Facebook"

Chris Rock
oh and my condolences go out to Mike in Marin and Buford  
Stu11 : 7/24/2016 12:09 pm : link
as well as Donald Trump....As if the horror of these shootings was not bad enough I know you guys must have been devastated yesterday when we found out that this lunatic had nothing to do with Isis, and was just your garden variety nut that was obsessed with school shootings...
That's almost always the case  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/24/2016 12:49 pm : link
But the story fades quickly if it's just a regular nut instead of a Muslim nut
I blame fracking  
FilmoPeace : 7/24/2016 3:55 pm : link
But what difference, at this point, does it make?
Impressive  
Rob in CT/NYC : 7/24/2016 4:00 pm : link
Self-control.

What was that, 4 days?
What a stupid post  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/24/2016 4:06 pm : link
It matters because understanding why attacks happen can help us to prevent future attacks. It can also help to educate bigots and people who support policies like religious discrimination.

It seems clear mentally ill people with guns are dangerous. Perhaps we should be screening gun owners for mental health issues instead having a religious test for those visiting America. Oh wait, the NRA would never approve of that.
Federal law already prohibits individuals  
Rob in CT/NYC : 7/24/2016 4:28 pm : link
With a history of mental illness from purchasing firearms (the Virginia Tech shooter, for example, should have been unable to pass his background check - twice, actually). The issue isn't the NRA, (though I can see how certain under-informed and agenda driven individuals would think that), but rather the state systems for making mental health information available.
RE: oh and my condolences go out to Mike in Marin and Buford  
David in LA : 7/24/2016 4:30 pm : link
In comment 13043333 Stu11 said:
Quote:
as well as Donald Trump....As if the horror of these shootings was not bad enough I know you guys must have been devastated yesterday when we found out that this lunatic had nothing to do with Isis, and was just your garden variety nut that was obsessed with school shootings...


+1
RE: Federal law already prohibits individuals  
pjcas18 : 7/24/2016 4:39 pm : link
In comment 13043493 Rob in CT/NYC said:
Quote:
With a history of mental illness from purchasing firearms (the Virginia Tech shooter, for example, should have been unable to pass his background check - twice, actually). The issue isn't the NRA, (though I can see how certain under-informed and agenda driven individuals would think that), but rather the state systems for making mental health information available.


not to mention the Munich shooter is well you know in Munich and the NRA is mainly a USA based organization - they have some global reach, but nothing like the influence they have here, plus the Munich shooter bought his gun from the dark web (black market) and from what I read it was a prop gun that was re-made back into a real gun (which I had no idea was how they made prop guns or that they could be made back into real guns).

RE: That's almost always the case  
buford : 7/24/2016 4:49 pm : link
In comment 13043362 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
But the story fades quickly if it's just a regular nut instead of a Muslim nut


Like the Nice attack? You said it was just another nut and it turns out he had ties to a terror group and was planning the attack for months.

This guy could be just a nut, but his motivation was clear. Kill a bunch of people. But until they investigate, you won't know if he had other ties. Like where did he get 300 rounds of ammo in Germany that has strict gun control laws?
It depends how the gun was deactivated  
Rob in CT/NYC : 7/24/2016 4:49 pm : link
I have some experience with the current UK law, and it would be easier to build a new gun than to "re activate" a gun - a process that includes welding all its moving parts together.
I don't believe a history of mental illness is enough  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/24/2016 4:52 pm : link
The law applies to people who have been adjudicated. Seeing a shrink, etc doesn't prevent you from buying a gun, see the Orlando shooter.

Pj, I was referring to what we can do to prevent attacks.
buford  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/24/2016 4:55 pm : link
Are you saying he wasn't a nut?
I assume everyone knows that  
freddie wilson : 7/24/2016 5:20 pm : link
there has been another incident in Germany?
Link - ( New Window )
I hope they're not calling that terrorism  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/24/2016 5:26 pm : link
But nothing would surprise me.
RE: What a stupid post  
Cam in MO : 7/24/2016 5:36 pm : link
In comment 13043477 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
It matters because understanding why attacks happen can help us to prevent future attacks. It can also help to educate bigots and people who support policies like religious discrimination.

It seems clear mentally ill people with guns are dangerous. Perhaps we should be screening gun owners for mental health issues instead having a religious test for those visiting America. Oh wait, the NRA would never approve of that.


Ya know- the idea of not letting a flood of Muslim refugees in the country isn't bigoted.

I do my best to be open minded on the subject. There are decent arguments to be made.

Firstly, refugees are not the same demographic as a 'normal' immigrant. Muslims that immigrate here from the ME, India, or SEA, are for the most part upper middle class folks that are relatively educated. The implication being that they are already more "westernized" (even if only in thought) than the general population of their country of origin.

Refugees on the other hand I imagine are a more representative sample of their country's economic demographics. (Gender and age are part of the discussion but not really important to my point). Considering the culture they are coming from and the basic differences (much, much, more than a European or Asian) with Western culture, some of which are unimaginable here, we'd be foolish to not think long and hard about the difficulties of assimilating large groups of these refugees. It isn't always about racism and religious discrimination.

And it absolutely is not the same as Muslim immigrants that we have seen over the past few decades. Looking at it through that lense ("my immigrant neighbor's are great people") is a mistake.

Holy strawman  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/24/2016 5:38 pm : link

Ya know- the idea of not letting a flood of Muslim refugees in the country isn't bigoted.
There's so much wrong with that post  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/24/2016 5:44 pm : link
First, no one was discussing refugees. Second, how do you know they're Muslim? Do you also support a religious test? I can't think of anything more un-American.
RE: There's so much wrong with that post  
Cam in MO : 7/24/2016 6:28 pm : link
In comment 13043541 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
First, no one was discussing refugees. Second, how do you know they're Muslim? Do you also support a religious test? I can't think of anything more un-American.


I assumed. Which policies of religious discrimination were you referring to? There are only two of which I've heard that have cause a rukus: Limiting refugees and the fantasy "no Muslims allowed" one. I was giving you credit insomuch as I don't think you believe the latter could possibly happen.

Also- of course there would be no Muslim test.

What part of limiting or refusing refugees from a culture with vastly different values is unamerican?
Cam  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/24/2016 6:58 pm : link
Your posts here surprise me.

Has anyone ever suggested we take an unlimited number of refugees?

The Muslim test is a huge part of a platform and is supported by many Americans. You must have a crystal ball if you say it's not happening.

I believe we have a moral obligation to help a limited number of those suffering. Especially since we played a role in creating the problem.

The entire situation is sad and similar to how Americans treated Jews in the 40s.

There are times when I feel embarrassed for America. History will not treat us kindly.
RE: Cam  
ctc in ftmyers : 7/24/2016 7:14 pm : link
In comment 13043569 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
Your posts here surprise me.

Has anyone ever suggested we take an unlimited number of refugees?

The Muslim test is a huge part of a platform and is supported by many Americans. You must have a crystal ball if you say it's not happening.

I believe we have a moral obligation to help a limited number of those suffering. Especially since we played a role in creating the problem.

The entire situation is sad and similar to how Americans treated Jews in the 40s.

There are times when I feel embarrassed for America. History will not treat us kindly.


Seems like you are the one with the crystal ball Bill.
.  
pjcas18 : 7/24/2016 7:21 pm : link
Quote:
Breaking News ‏@BreakingNews 4m4 minutes ago

1 person killed, several others injured in explosion at bar in Ansbach, Germany, officials say - BBC News
I remember barhopping in Ansbach...  
Dunedin81 : 7/24/2016 7:32 pm : link
That's just awful. Why would anyone want to emulate Merkel's example?
Ctc  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/24/2016 7:32 pm : link
I'm not predicting anything
RE: I remember barhopping in Ansbach...  
pjcas18 : 7/24/2016 7:36 pm : link
In comment 13043589 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
That's just awful. Why would anyone want to emulate Merkel's example?


for all we know that could be a gas leak at this point, no one else has picked up on it from what I have seen.

no idea on the other point. seems like a disaster.
RE: Cam  
Cam in MO : 7/24/2016 7:42 pm : link
In comment 13043569 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
Your posts here surprise me.

Has anyone ever suggested we take an unlimited number of refugees?

The Muslim test is a huge part of a platform and is supported by many Americans. You must have a crystal ball if you say it's not happening.

I believe we have a moral obligation to help a limited number of those suffering. Especially since we played a role in creating the problem.

The entire situation is sad and similar to how Americans treated Jews in the 40s.

There are times when I feel embarrassed for America. History will not treat us kindly.


I do actually agree with much of what you're saying. I don't have a crystal ball, but no, I don't believe there is any possibility that "no Muslims" will ever be put into action regardless of who wins the election. Although not perfect, we do still have checks and balances in the form of the legislative and judicial branches that keep the more outrageous of the campaign platforms and promises from ever actually being adopted.

Does it suck that many people support such policies out of fear and bigotry? Yep, it sure does. Is it going to get better anytime soon? Nope, not as long as there continue to be frequent terrorist attacks in the name of Islam.

As far as the refugees- I believe there is a moral obligation to help people trying to escape war and make a better life. I don't believe that means we forget about protecting our own people and our values. This is very much different from other instances in the past. You can't compare it to how Jews were treated because Jews weren't strapping bombs to themselves and taking as many Gentiles with them as they could. You can't compare it to the Jews because they weren't coming from cultures in which women were treated as second class citizens and denied such things as education (relative to their contemporaries).

I do absolutely believe that the overwhelming majority of Muslims from the ME want nothing more than to live in peace and to give their kids more than they had.

I can also recognize that these folks are less educated (not just r and r's but educated about the world and other cultures) than the same folks over here that you are so embarrassed by. Take a step back and apply the same thought process you use on your fellow Americans and apply it to poorer, less educated folks, from a less developed (rights wise) culture that's very different from our own and ask yourself just how many of them you want here.

To be clear, I am not against any refugees. I think we need to really understand what we are getting into it we ultimately decide to take tens of thousands of them.

RE: RE: I remember barhopping in Ansbach...  
Dunedin81 : 7/24/2016 7:46 pm : link
In comment 13043592 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13043589 Dunedin81 said:


Quote:


That's just awful. Why would anyone want to emulate Merkel's example?



for all we know that could be a gas leak at this point, no one else has picked up on it from what I have seen.

no idea on the other point. seems like a disaster.


Mayor confirmed it was a bomb, not a gas leak.
RE: RE: RE: I remember barhopping in Ansbach...  
pjcas18 : 7/24/2016 7:46 pm : link
In comment 13043602 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
In comment 13043592 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 13043589 Dunedin81 said:


Quote:


That's just awful. Why would anyone want to emulate Merkel's example?



for all we know that could be a gas leak at this point, no one else has picked up on it from what I have seen.

no idea on the other point. seems like a disaster.



Mayor confirmed it was a bomb, not a gas leak.


I was pretty sure, but didn't want to jump to conclusions.
RE: Ctc  
Rob in CT/NYC : 7/24/2016 8:09 pm : link
In comment 13043590 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
I'm not predicting anything


History will not treat us kindly sounds like some sort of prediction, but who knows with you.
RE: RE: Ctc  
ctc in ftmyers : 7/24/2016 8:43 pm : link
In comment 13043617 Rob in CT/NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13043590 AP in Halfmoon said:


Quote:


I'm not predicting anything



History will not treat us kindly sounds like some sort of prediction, but who knows with you.


Wasn't worth responding to Rob.
RE: Holy strawman  
buford : 7/24/2016 8:58 pm : link
In comment 13043537 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:

Ya know- the idea of not letting a flood of Muslim refugees in the country isn't bigoted.


You do know that ISIS has infiltrated the refugee camps and some of the Paris attackers got there with refugees? And the FBI has said they can't vet these people.

But it's all a game to you, you just post this shit to stir up trouble.
RE: RE: Holy strawman  
Milton : 7/24/2016 9:42 pm : link
In comment 13043653 buford said:
Quote:
You do know that ISIS has infiltrated the refugee camps and some of the Paris attackers got there with refugees? And the FBI has said they can't vet these people.
I assume the plan is that anyone who can't be vetted won't be allowed in the country.

What I don't understand is why these people need to be relocated halfway across the globe as immigrants rather than staying nearby their original countries as refugees waiting to return to their county when the hostilities cease. Palestinian refugees have been waiting generations to return to their place of their origin (or their grandparents origin) without being re-settled elsewhere, what makes the Syrian refugees in a hurry to abandon their dream of a return?

Logic would dictate that Arab/Muslim refugees keep to Arab/Muslim countries where they (for the most part) share a culture and language until it is safe to return to their homes in Syria. Why relocate refugees to America where they are bound to experience the most culture shock and the most difficulty assimilating?
buford  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/24/2016 9:43 pm : link
We disagree on refugees. How is that stirring anything up? The fact that we played a role in screwing it up doesn't seem to bother you. BTW, how would one vet a widow with 2 young children?

Rob, You are correct. My apologies. I firmly believe that will be the case.
Milton  
Dunedin81 : 7/24/2016 10:00 pm : link
The neighbors don't want them because they're destabilizing, and because in many instances these conflicts prove much more enduring than originally anticipated (Lebanon, for instance, had nearly a quarter-century of on again-off again war and is still at risk). Jordan, which has settled refugees, had to drive out the PLO in the 70's. The PLO was arguably the tipping point for the start of the Lebanese Civil War. Iraq has its own problems, to be sure. Saudi is famously insular, and the princelets around the Gulf don't have the resources (food/water, not $ - they have plenty of that) to accept large numbers of refugees either.
RE: buford  
buford : 7/24/2016 10:02 pm : link
In comment 13043680 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
We disagree on refugees. How is that stirring anything up? The fact that we played a role in screwing it up doesn't seem to bother you. BTW, how would one vet a widow with 2 young children?

Rob, You are correct. My apologies. I firmly believe that will be the case.


It's not about refugees. It's about you.
Milton  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/24/2016 10:08 pm : link
Good points. For what it would cost to transport, house, etc. the US could rent an outdated cruise ship and anchor it off the coast of Syria.
RE: RE: buford  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/24/2016 10:16 pm : link
In comment 13043690 buford said:
Quote:
In comment 13043680 AP in Halfmoon said:


Quote:


We disagree on refugees. How is that stirring anything up? The fact that we played a role in screwing it up doesn't seem to bother you. BTW, how would one vet a widow with 2 young children?

Rob, You are correct. My apologies. I firmly believe that will be the case.



It's not about refugees. It's about you.


Great, I'll try harder to ignore you.
Suicide bombing by a 27-year old Syrian national...  
Dunedin81 : 7/24/2016 10:45 pm : link
per CNN. Thankfully it seems like he wasn't very good at his craft.
I wonder what the leaders tell them  
AP in Halfmoon : 7/24/2016 10:52 pm : link
If they fail and only commit suicide do they get their rewards in heaven?
RE: Suicide bombing by a 27-year old Syrian national...  
Patrick77 : 7/24/2016 11:08 pm : link
In comment 13043722 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
per CNN. Thankfully it seems like he wasn't very good at his craft.


Practice at your craft makes perfect. Well good practice makes perfect. Must be hard for these bozos to practice suicide bombs.
RE: RE: Holy strawman  
Stu11 : 7/24/2016 11:23 pm : link
In comment 13043653 buford said:
Quote:
I
Ya know- the idea of not letting a flood of Muslim refugees in the country isn't bigoted.

Holy cow the right wing has so twisted what Comey said months ago in front of congress. We have an intensely strong vetting system. It takes 6 months to get a refugee to get into this country. They are first vetted by UN security and then our country vets them. Congress asked him for 100% guarantee and nobody can ever give that about anyone trying to enter the country. Somehow Sean Hannity and Breitbart.com have taken that and interpreted it to mean that taking in refugees would be a free for all that we can't stop or monitor.
RE: RE: Holy strawman  
madgiantscow009 : 7/25/2016 12:33 am : link
In comment 13043653 buford said:
Quote:
In comment 13043537 AP in Halfmoon said:


Quote:



Ya know- the idea of not letting a flood of Muslim refugees in the country isn't bigoted.

You do know that ISIS has infiltrated the refugee camps and some of the Paris attackers got there with refugees? And the FBI has said they can't vet these people.

But it's all a game to you, you just post this shit to stir up trouble.


http://yle.fi/uutiset/yle_head_count_roughly_three_out_of_four_asylum_seekers_are_male/8355945

Where are they from?

The most common locations that asylum seekers are leaving include Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan, Albania and Syria. Up to October 4, the number of refugees entering Finland from Iraq was 13,848, while 1,810 came from Somalia, 1,060 from Afghanistan, 676 from Albania and 409 from Syria.

Whats the gender split?

According to Kautto the vast majority of the asylum seekers roughly 15,000 are male. Women account for 2,816. There are close to 2,000 children traveling with adults, while unaccompanied minors number around 1,000.

That's Finland, but most are non-Syrian refugees and males.

17397/17816 = 0.977, 95% non-Syrian.
15000/17816 = 0.84, 84% male.

RE: RE: RE: buford  
buford : 7/25/2016 6:12 am : link
In comment 13043701 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
In comment 13043690 buford said:


Quote:


In comment 13043680 AP in Halfmoon said:


Quote:


We disagree on refugees. How is that stirring anything up? The fact that we played a role in screwing it up doesn't seem to bother you. BTW, how would one vet a widow with 2 young children?

Rob, You are correct. My apologies. I firmly believe that will be the case.



It's not about refugees. It's about you.



Great, I'll try harder to ignore you.


That would be a blessing.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner