Poll - was Ron Johnson on a par with the following backs?

but a great trade on the Giants part that brought him on board

other guys when healthy. Johnson made the Giants a better team and was a major factor to their winning records in 1970 & 1971. Unfortunately he suffered two major knee injuries and was never quite the same after the second one.

Not unlike Mark Bavaro later, Johnson's longevity was not meant to be.

but I do recall that when we got Ron Johnson people like "wow, we have a running back". So he certainly seemed to bring us to a level that we were not at before. I also felt the same way about Rob Carpenter. And Rodney Hampton, for that matter. I think we're focusing on, or magnifying, the peaks and maybe back in those days we had some really stupendous valleys?

A very solid player, but not really an all-time great.

injury. Not in HOF class but a really good player. One of the few bright spots of that era along with Bob Tucker

.

It's similar to the case with Hampton. Hampton was a very good back for his first couple of seasons, and then he blew out his knee and lost a step or three, turning him into a big, slow power back. But he was all they had at the time, so people remember him fondly and tend to overrate his career.

Ron Johnson suffered an injury that screwed up his career, when he was at his best he was probably the third best back I seen, I rate Tiki as best and Joe Morris, who suffered an injury that ENDED HIS CAREER ALSO AS THE SECOND BEST, I THINK Johnson WAS A LITTLE BETTER THAN Hampton though. Another back that would have been great but got hurt early was Tucker Fredrickson, he looked like he was going to be the next Jim Brown, then blew out his knee in a pre season game against the packers, never forget that night, worse then the Jason Sehorn injury even.

I meant.

In year 2 during pre season.

Gifford, but only after his injury and then was a Flanker back by then. He was obviously a great player.

In comment 13042066 PaulN said:

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Ron Johnson suffered an injury that screwed up his career, when he was at his best he was probably the third best back I seen, I rate Tiki as best and Joe Morris, who suffered an injury that ENDED HIS CAREER ALSO AS THE SECOND BEST, I THINK Johnson WAS A LITTLE BETTER THAN Hampton though. Another back that would have been great but got hurt early was Tucker Fredrickson, he looked like he was going to be the next Jim Brown, then blew out his knee in a pre season game against the packers, never forget that night, worse then the Jason Sehorn injury even.

IIRC, We had a chance to actually get the next Jim Brown in that draft. But we chose Frederickson instead.

.

He, MacArthur Lane with the St Lois Cardinals and the running back with Washington (Larry Brown?) were very close to each other in yards gained each year. Very exciting runner! I met him while sitting on the end of the bench in Connie Mack's last Eagles game. He struck me as a very large person. Fran Tarkenton, not so much. Poor guy has dementia and is in a nursing home.

but nowhere near the class of those guys. He was around a 1000 yards for a couple of years. He was a welcome upgrade to RB in those dark years.

In comment 13042091 oldhemi said:

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He, MacArthur Lane with the St Lois Cardinals and the running back with Washington (Larry Brown?) were very close to each other in yards gained each year. Very exciting runner! I met him while sitting on the end of the bench in Connie Mack's last Eagles game. He struck me as a very large person. Fran Tarkenton, not so much. Poor guy has dementia and is in a nursing home.

Wasn't Leroy Kelly in the top three in the RJ years? Or am I meshing time periods together?

But a very good RB. And I did see him play.

In comment 13042082 Bill L said:

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In comment 13042066 PaulN said: Quote: Ron Johnson suffered an injury that screwed up his career, when he was at his best he was probably the third best back I seen, I rate Tiki as best and Joe Morris, who suffered an injury that ENDED HIS CAREER ALSO AS THE SECOND BEST, I THINK Johnson WAS A LITTLE BETTER THAN Hampton though. Another back that would have been great but got hurt early was Tucker Fredrickson, he looked like he was going to be the next Jim Brown, then blew out his knee in a pre season game against the packers, never forget that night, worse then the Jason Sehorn injury even. IIRC, We had a chance to actually get the next Jim Brown in that draft. But we chose Frederickson instead.

If you mean Sayers he wasn't like Jim Brown at all. Fast as lightening and a great outside runner. Frederickson was actually rated about equal going into the draft. The one thing Frederickson beat Sayers in was how fast he could tear up his knee.

Nope, Leroy was great a few years before 67-68 or so. He was still active but behind the 3 that I mentioned. IIRC, he was part of the Homer Jones trade with Cleveland.

In comment 13042114 njm said:

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In comment 13042082 Bill L said: Quote: In comment 13042066 PaulN said: Quote: Ron Johnson suffered an injury that screwed up his career, when he was at his best he was probably the third best back I seen, I rate Tiki as best and Joe Morris, who suffered an injury that ENDED HIS CAREER ALSO AS THE SECOND BEST, I THINK Johnson WAS A LITTLE BETTER THAN Hampton though. Another back that would have been great but got hurt early was Tucker Fredrickson, he looked like he was going to be the next Jim Brown, then blew out his knee in a pre season game against the packers, never forget that night, worse then the Jason Sehorn injury even. IIRC, We had a chance to actually get the next Jim Brown in that draft. But we chose Frederickson instead. If you mean Sayers he wasn't like Jim Brown at all. Fast as lightening and a great outside runner. Frederickson was actually rated about equal going into the draft. The one thing Frederickson beat Sayers in was how fast he could tear up his knee.

I mean more in the most elite of backs, not running styles or physiques. I don't think I ever saw Jim Brown actually run. At least the only time I recall seeing Jim Brown run, he was dropping grenades down little air pipes on some roof.

together in 1970, Johnson's only fully healthy year:

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Late in the 1970 season, Giants quarterback Fran Tarkenton said of Johnson: "Johnson is the best halfback in football today ... period! He's just a devastating football player."[3]

Poll not exactly working out as you planned, eh buddy?

I kinda knew you had issues because of your whole Hoyas thing, but you really outdid yourself initiating a BBI poll because you got a beat down on Ronnie's "Friday what have you learned" thread.

What I'm saying is, I knew you were a loser, but I didn't realize until this thread you are a sore loser!

All this because you think Jacobs deserves to be in the ROH more than Johnson... a guy you never saw play?

You sure?

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Not even close xman : 3:09 pm : link : reply

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Not really, but he was definitely an above average RB. Red Dog : 3:24 pm : link : reply

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really good back on terrible teams whose career was cut short by Victor in CT : 3:25 pm : link : reply injury. Not in HOF class but a really good player.

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No PaulN : 3:38 pm : link : reply

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Ron Johnson was pretty good RB Steve in South Jersey : 3:59 pm : link : reply but nowhere near the class of those guys

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A cut below Dickerson et. al. njm : 4:12 pm : link : reply

Seems like the majority disagree with you here.

BTW, just to give you a tip - Hokies, not Hoyas. And if you feel like making personal attacks over a disagreement, have at it. You'll only make yourself look sillier than this argument already does.

The point of the thread was to see what other Giants fans who watched him thought of your crazy bold pronouncement, since I've never, not once, read or heard a recognized football writer or commentator ever compare Ron Johnson to the level of backs you're talking about. Every back you mentioned is in the HOF except AP, who will be a first ballot selection. Ron Johnson's not in that conversation no matter how awesome you thought he was when you were young.

and I say this as another person who never saw Ron Johnson play, is that this is the assessment from Giants fans.

Fans almost always overrate their own players.

Ask Giants fans about OJ, Campbell, AP, etc. and you get the same no doubt hall-of-famer reply from everyone.

Ask Bills fans, Oilers fans, Vikings fans (or just non-Giants football fans from the era) about how Ron Johnson compares to those players and you may get a different answer.

Just throwing it out there for some perspective

You keep on escalating this? And you think a few nos and not quites make your point?

You honestly can't read tone at all. Are you that desperate you can't admit to yourself you were looking for a bunch of LOLs and got "not quite" or "interesting question" or "just below" instead?

How many giving you answers you like stated they actually saw Johnson play?

Frankly Greg, you are quite pathetic and I feel sorry for you.

Have a good weekend I won't argue more with you.

You write some interesting posts, and I enjoy your cooking threads.....but you come off like a raving lunatic on this one.

I recall that he was very good.

I don't even recall.

We deviated too far from the original point of our dispute, and I never even said that in fact there are some good arguments pro Jacobs (TDs, setting the tone at times for team wide hard nosed play). But you (I think) got in a tiff when someone else or even several others came down hard on "other guys more deserving" than Jacobs and you argued rather vehemently against those guys, including Ron Johnson.

Fact is, a lot of the same arguments pro Jacobs could be used even more strongly pro Ron Johnson.

And it annoyed the heck out of me (obviously) that you judged Johnson without seeing him play.

You know all the games the Giants lost last year because the O couldn't maintain a "4 minute" drive? With Ron Johnson we would have one every single one of those games.

Put another way, he made as much difference to the W/L columns of the early 70s Giants, actually probably moreso, than Odell Beckham made two years. Although I sure as heck don't want to find out by Odell going down any stretch of time...

He was very good but not in the class of those listed. Not close. I think BJ is close to the ring of honor but Johnson is a notch below.

Only played 5 years. That's a factor.

and when he was healthy, he was a really really good back.

But he wasn't a hall of famer.

IMHO - Johnson had 2 years that were better than any Jacobs had. Remember, it was a 14 game season back then. But he didn't have the career Jacobs had because of knee injuries.

And yes, Duke Johnson is on par or better than OJ, easily hand down, no question


I miss the cane duke johnson trump troll.

I saw them all play and while Ron Johnson was a very good running back, in my opinion he was not in the class of OJ, Campbell, Dickerson etc... and yes, maybe if he wasn't banged up he COULD HAVE has a similar career to those HOFs - but, again, that was a very big if...

Hard to forget that maybe in the biggest game he ever played as a Giant - the last game at Yankee Stadium against the Rams to get us into the playoffs, he had a very pedestrian game (14 carries for 42 yards) in an ugly loss. That was a significant blemish on Johnson's Giants career in my mind.

Nevertheless, he was one of the top RBs in Giants history and is right there with Hampton/Morris/Bradshaw/Jacobs - very similar career arc...

... in the 1970 season, I should have said.

played badly in that Rams game. DT (and later Giants scout) Jerry Shay broke his leg. It was a very one sided game. The Giants would have made the playoffs anyway, if not for a horrible call in a Saints game earlier in the 1970 season.

Ron Johnson was a ray of light in the darkness. Came in the Homer Jones trade. He immediately gave us a new dimension in the backfield. He had good size (not huge) and really good speed. He fit well in the Giants' offense. He was a favorite of mine. Looking back, he really does not compare with the other guys from that time you mention. OJ was one of the greatest running back I've ever seen (Jim Brown being the greatest.) Hard to compare Johnson with the list of more recent Giant backs. The offensive line he ran behind was nowhere near as good as those the others had, plus he a had a much shorter career. He was our first 1000 yard rusher. I have no problem with Johnson, as well as Tucker, and Lockhart representing that era in the ROH.

Thurman Thomas Chuck Forman he did it all not anywhere near those HOFers. But one of the best RB's we ever had?

Only back better than Johnson was Tikki

I would take Johnson everytime. Ron Johnson was a gamer.

Powerful. Explosive. 9.3 (before the 40 was the benchmark). Great vision.

I came of age watching Jim Brown, then Leroy Kelly destroy us. Gifford and Frederickson were limping. Morrison had heart. Koy and Mercein tried hard,too, but the talent and the O line weren't there.

I think Pete Case made the pro bowl once. Darrell Dess was old. Tackle Willie Young was six feet tall. Greg Larson was competent. The other tackle was Francis Peay or Steve Thompson, iirc., both were inconsistent in the extreme. In other words, the line was mediocre at best, got QBs destroyed. I don't think any Giant runner broke 500 yards after '64 til Johnson got there.

I felt like I had been the kid on the outside of the candy store with his nose pressed to the window and nothing but a hole in his pocket. Until Johnson got there. Damn, he was good. For once, the gold standard was on the Giants.

As good as the all-time greats? Brown is In his own class. Hard to say what would have happened with a longer career and a better team, but Johnson was the best pure runner in Blue that I have seen.

If he played in the same offenses as some of those other backs and stayed healthy he would have accomplished a lot more. He was a very good back.

Ron Johnson was a terrific back when the NFC East had three good ones. But he was not ever in the class of any of the backs cited above.

Eric Dickerson, Earl Campbell, OJ Simpson, Adrian Peterson, Marshall Faulk

And whoever said he was a cut below Dickerson is being very generous.

I loved Johnson. He was a great Giant but he is not in the same class as any of those backs.

shape or form, the next Jim Brown....that was all media-ese....

In fact, you could say, TF was no Ron Johnson....

RJ was like a breath of fresh air when he came here, for Homer Jones.....he could run the ball....catch the ball....he was Tiki, before there was Tiki.....

But he was not on the level of those other runners....

I loved Ron Johnson however he was not in the class mentioned in original post.

in a class with the likes of Wendell Tyler, Stump Mitchell, Terry Metcalf and Joe Washington.

And he is behind the group that included Wilbert Montgomery, Lawrence McCutcheon and William Andrews.

He was a decent player who was only average in the grand scheme of things or his peers.

To name him with some HOF'ers is complete madness.

...but Ron Johnson was a very good running back behind a not so good offensive line.

That said, the offense was clever and there were West Coast aspects to it (before there was such a thing as a West Coast offense) that gave Ron Johnson room to run and spaces to catch the ball.

Also, Ron Johnson was a very good vision runner and knew when to press a hole and when to side-step out of it. He also had the uncanny ability to step in the hole and turn sideways while still going forward.

A very, very fine player who we got for a steal by trading a fading Homer Jones.

Not a HOFer, and it isn't an injustice to say he really does not belong in that company. However, consider he never ran behind a quality offensive line when he was with the Giants. Tarkenton has said that the Giants were using what he termed the "East Coast" offense in those days, substituting the power-running schemes that were so dominant in that era with the short-passing game.

Johnson was a gifted receiver from the backfield. As a runner he was sort of a long-strider who lacked elusiveness. He was fast enough coming out of Michigan that he returned kick-offs for the Browns. He did that occasionally for the Giants as well, if I recall correctly.

He was a big part of really the only two semi-successful seasons that the team had post YA and pre Phil-LT. He was admired throughout the league. Gil Brandt made a point of bringing Ron to the Cowboys after he parted ways with the Giants. He never made it out of camp. His knees were gone. I met Ron at the Alexanders on Fordham Rd & Kingsbridge later that fall. He told me he couldn't believe the difference in the two organizations. The Cowboys were running a state-of-the-art program while the Giants were a jerkball outfit.

In Giants history I consider his correlative to be Tiki Barber. Barber was the better player. But Ron Johnson remains a personal favorite who properly categorized should be considered as "what might have been.". Like Bavaro, Dan Lloyd and Troy Archer, who was every bit as good as Randy White.

Have these awesome personal observations and experiences, that you can remember them so many years later, and are willing to share them. It reminds me what an awesome site this is.

Cleveland's first round pick the same year Simpson was the first overall, he sat on the bench behind Leroy Kelly. Traded for Homer Jones, an extremely rare good trade by Well Mara in those days, Jones was done and barely played for Cleveland.

His 1970 & 1972 seasons were HOF. He could do it all behind a small & terrible offensive line. Two time 1000 yds rushing in 14 game seasons (Today, they're 16 games, Gifford played 12 game seasons). He ran long yardage, short yardage and was a big threat to catch the ball (about 450 yds receiving). Not only did the offensive line stink, the defense wasn't much better. In '72, he carried them to a winning record even with Norm Snead as QB. He also had a very good year in '73

He missed all of '71 with an off season injury and the near playoff team's record fell to 4-10, last place. After another injury in '73, he was never the same.

Charles "Show me the Way" was starting to have a great career. And then came the knees....