In fairness, watching that highlight reel (which was pretty complete), and for all we talk about Odell, I will say I had forgotten how amazing he is. He may not be the #1 receiver in the NFL, but he does things that no one else does.
Everyone came out to stop him and he was still able to put up top 5 results.
He has the skill to be one of the all time greats.
Just need 8 more years like last year.
He's the kind of player I fantasized the Giants could have.
Potential to be the GOAT when all is said and done. I think he's got the work ethic, but injuries are unpredictable and hopefully he can learn to control his emotions. I have no problem with his fiery play, he just needs to stop the "after the whistle" crap.
Odell to set the tone with a 10 catch 183 yards and 3 TDS for thr cowboys opening night and become a legitimate MVP candidate this year.
The Dallas defense, as per ESPN analyst conversation, is NOT talented at all. If injuries hit them on defense they could be outright terrible.
Having said that, if our offense stays healthy through camp and the blocking improves by the leaps and bounds that I think it will, I would hope OBJ torches Dallas for more like 12 - 220 -3 TD's with two long, deep pass plays for TD's.
Who am I forgetting? Maybe Calvin Johnson, but I don't remember his immediate impact the likes or Moss and OBJ.
Randy Moss was the greatest deep threat WR I've ever seen. He just lit the NFL up as a rookie and beyond. How we contained him in 2007 SB still amazes me, though I know our DLine hammered Brady all day not allowing time to plant and throw.
But if I could vote for only 2 guys it would be Moss and OBJ as far as total impact. I can't imagine what OBJ's stats would look like had he not suffered the hamstring injury and suspension.
OBJ has demonstrated that he is a generational type talent.
He doesn't just excel at his position. He dominates. He has all the skills plus as important the drive to be the very best. He also has the rare quality of elevating the play of those around him. The fans, the Giants, and Eli are blessed to have him on this team. Eli will be getting another ring(s) before he retires and OBJ will be leading him right to it. Eli will be damn happy for him too when OBJ gets the SB MVP instead of Eli for a change.
top 5 in the league right now. He has the talent to one day be top 10 all time. HOWEVER, IMO it is Odell himself who will write the end of that story. He needs to end the distractions on and off of the field. Not letting the defense get in his head on the field, and focus on the game off of the field. Wait until retirement to do those other things.
He's one of the 2 best along with Brown and arguably better, because his TDs/reception and also TDs/target are way better than Brown's. Brown scored at a rate of 1 TD per every 13.6 catches or 19.3 times targeted.
Beckham notches 1 TD per 7.4 catches and per 12.2 targets.
OBJ is considerably more efficient at scoring. He also gains more yards per catch, 15.1 vs 13.5.
But I agree OBJ is still only #2 after Brown.
And next year he will be better. He was still the system last year according to Eli. Link - ( New Window )
OBJ has been the clear focus of the defensive backfield.
Those other great receivers had at least someone to take off some of the heat. Between Beckham, Shepard & Cruz, I expect to see off the charts WR numbers this year.
Just maybe there will be a trickle down effect that will improve the running game.
...that we will put up with the fact that he's a momma's boy and a diva with a huge but delicate ego and some of us will even go so far as to make excuses for him and say it's just because he's so damn competitive and wants to win so badly. That's how good he is!!! He's a sensitive kid - ( New Window )
OBJ has been the clear focus of the defensive backfield.
Those other great receivers had at least someone to take off some of the heat. Between Beckham, Shepard & Cruz, I expect to see off the charts WR numbers this year.
Just maybe there will be a trickle down effect that will improve the running game.
Trickle down or as I like to call it "synergistic effect" means a lot in football. When you can run and pass effectively your offense is well just BETTER! The left side of the OL will be much better and the right side will hold its own. FB and TE blocking should be improved.
We will run better. I'm thinking Jennings starts the season as the lead back but that isn't a "for sure" assessment as he is 31. We have to hope A. Williams, O. Dwarka and/or Perkins all step up to begin to take the load. We will do much better in the redzone if we can run and we will do just that.
In 3 of the 4 games the Dallas defense has held Beckham in check. There was only the one game when Beckham got loose.
The Dallas defense gets a bad rap, but they are not as bad as most believe when you look at them closer. Playing the "Tampa 2" defense the Dallas defense minimizes the big pass plays, they let the receivers catch everything in front of them and make sure to tackle for little YAC. Where they got hurt last year was in the run defense.
In 3 of the 4 games the Dallas defense has held Beckham in check. There was only the one game when Beckham got loose.
The Dallas defense gets a bad rap, but they are not as bad as most believe when you look at them closer. Playing the "Tampa 2" defense the Dallas defense minimizes the big pass plays, they let the receivers catch everything in front of them and make sure to tackle for little YAC. Where they got hurt last year was in the run defense.
We'll see how the two games go this year.
That is why we need guys like WR Victor Cruz and rookie WR Sheppard to become true threats. I believe. You an't rely on just one man week in and week out. We also should have an improved TE W. Tye, FB Johnson and so forth to help.
We catch a break opening day as Dallas will be out a minimum of 3 starters due to their suspensions, including both starting DE's. I think we'll score on them and score a lot. Our offense comes back pretty much in tact and we've upgraded at FB and with experience / continuity.
And I think we hold the Dallas run game in check. Great OL or not, our DL should hold its own. All again contingent on our staying healthy and developing continuity in training camp.
In 3 of the 4 games the Dallas defense has held Beckham in check. There was only the one game when Beckham got loose.
The Dallas defense gets a bad rap, but they are not as bad as most believe when you look at them closer. Playing the "Tampa 2" defense the Dallas defense minimizes the big pass plays, they let the receivers catch everything in front of them and make sure to tackle for little YAC. Where they got hurt last year was in the run defense.
We'll see how the two games go this year.
Eli had his 4th and 6th worst games of the year vs Dallas last year, no doubt due to his inability to connect with OBJ in either game.
Good luck duplicating that game 1 with both your starting DEs suspended.
Eli didn't throw a single TD vs Dallas, and had QB ratings of 50 something and 69 something those 2 games, so it's not as if he took advantage of Dallas focusing on stopping OBJ.
to try and rank the top guys in the league. I used the Passer Rating data from Pro-Football-Reference.
Odell averaged 96.7 rec YPG and his QB averaged a 110.6 QBR on throws to his direction. If you multiply those two numbers, Odell ends up with a 107.0 number (let's call it Wide Receiver Score, or WRsc).
Here are the top 10 WRsc from 2015.
Code:
Player ---- YPG ----- QBR ------ WRsc
Julio ----- 116.9 --- 105.3 ---- 123.1
Antonio --- 114.6 --- 100.6 ---- 115.3
Odell ----- 96.7 ---- 110.6 ---- 107.0
- I actually made it 11 because Larry Fitz is the man and I had to sneak him in there, especially since there's a large drop-off after him and he just barely missed the Top 10.
- This stat correctly identifies Julio, Brown, and Odell as the top 3 in the league. Julio came out slightly ahead of Brown this year, mainly due to Brown having more INTs thrown to his direction.
- According to this stat, Sammy Watkins was probably the most underrated WR in the game last year. He's a clear 4th on this list despite having absolute shit for QB. I've always been a huge fan, he'd be a star with a QB. As deep as that WR class was, Watkins is easily my #2 favorite WR from that class behind Odell.
- The volume wasn't there compared to the elite WRs, but throwing the ball in Doug Baldwin's direction was a good idea for the Seahawks. Just insane efficiency.
- This stat passes the smell test, the guys that should belong at the top are at the top. The other "elite" guys are all in the top 10.
RE: so I tried combining Yards per Game with Passer Rating
to try and rank the top guys in the league. I used the Passer Rating data from Pro-Football-Reference.
Odell averaged 96.7 rec YPG and his QB averaged a 110.6 QBR on throws to his direction. If you multiply those two numbers, Odell ends up with a 107.0 number (let's call it Wide Receiver Score, or WRsc).
Here are the top 10 WRsc from 2015.
Code:
Player ---- YPG ----- QBR ------ WRsc
Julio ----- 116.9 --- 105.3 ---- 123.1
Antonio --- 114.6 --- 100.6 ---- 115.3
Odell ----- 96.7 ---- 110.6 ---- 107.0
- I actually made it 11 because Larry Fitz is the man and I had to sneak him in there, especially since there's a large drop-off after him and he just barely missed the Top 10.
- This stat correctly identifies Julio, Brown, and Odell as the top 3 in the league. Julio came out slightly ahead of Brown this year, mainly due to Brown having more INTs thrown to his direction.
- According to this stat, Sammy Watkins was probably the most underrated WR in the game last year. He's a clear 4th on this list despite having absolute shit for QB. I've always been a huge fan, he'd be a star with a QB. As deep as that WR class was, Watkins is easily my #2 favorite WR from that class behind Odell.
- The volume wasn't there compared to the elite WRs, but throwing the ball in Doug Baldwin's direction was a good idea for the Seahawks. Just insane efficiency.
- This stat passes the smell test, the guys that should belong at the top are at the top. The other "elite" guys are all in the top 10.
Aren't you double counting yards? Yards per game are included in both metrics.
RE: so I tried combining Yards per Game with Passer Rating
to try and rank the top guys in the league. I used the Passer Rating data from Pro-Football-Reference.
Odell averaged 96.7 rec YPG and his QB averaged a 110.6 QBR on throws to his direction. If you multiply those two numbers, Odell ends up with a 107.0 number (let's call it Wide Receiver Score, or WRsc).
Here are the top 10 WRsc from 2015.
Code:
Player ---- YPG ----- QBR ------ WRsc
Julio ----- 116.9 --- 105.3 ---- 123.1
Antonio --- 114.6 --- 100.6 ---- 115.3
Odell ----- 96.7 ---- 110.6 ---- 107.0
- I actually made it 11 because Larry Fitz is the man and I had to sneak him in there, especially since there's a large drop-off after him and he just barely missed the Top 10.
- This stat correctly identifies Julio, Brown, and Odell as the top 3 in the league. Julio came out slightly ahead of Brown this year, mainly due to Brown having more INTs thrown to his direction.
- According to this stat, Sammy Watkins was probably the most underrated WR in the game last year. He's a clear 4th on this list despite having absolute shit for QB. I've always been a huge fan, he'd be a star with a QB. As deep as that WR class was, Watkins is easily my #2 favorite WR from that class behind Odell.
- The volume wasn't there compared to the elite WRs, but throwing the ball in Doug Baldwin's direction was a good idea for the Seahawks. Just insane efficiency.
- This stat passes the smell test, the guys that should belong at the top are at the top. The other "elite" guys are all in the top 10.
Osi Osi there is one metric missing from your combined stat of "WR rating" kthat seems to me missing - one rather obvious point if I may suggest.
Given a threshold minimum of targets a receiver's YPG is heavily dependent on targets per game... Factor that in and OBJ probably vaults past Jones and Brown in those rankings, in terms of efficiency he's much more productive not only in yards but also in scoring.
I am also not sure why just using the QB ratings to a specific receiver divided by his QB overall rating wouldn't be just as valuable a metric to rate receivers against each other...
I'll give Peak Moss and TO the edge but that's it
He also has a chance to behave himself out of a Giant uniform. It's really up to him. He has all the tools.
He has the skill to be one of the all time greats.
Just need 8 more years like last year.
You'd let him do anything to you, wouldn't you?
How is it bold?
Having said that, if our offense stays healthy through camp and the blocking improves by the leaps and bounds that I think it will, I would hope OBJ torches Dallas for more like 12 - 220 -3 TD's with two long, deep pass plays for TD's.
According to The Limericks Guy, the 'elephant in the room' is the whole gay rumor, so we should just trade him.
Quote:
Trade him now, while his value is still high.
According to The Limericks Guy, the 'elephant in the room' is the whole gay rumor, so we should just trade him.
Fine, but not before we get him to explain the whole obsession with Judy Garland thing.
Quote:
Bold
How is it bold?
Lol
Who am I forgetting? Maybe Calvin Johnson, but I don't remember his immediate impact the likes or Moss and OBJ.
Uh huh.
Who am I forgetting? Maybe Calvin Johnson, but I don't remember his immediate impact the likes or Moss and OBJ.
But if I could vote for only 2 guys it would be Moss and OBJ as far as total impact. I can't imagine what OBJ's stats would look like had he not suffered the hamstring injury and suspension.
He is not Jerry Rice folks, maybe could be if developed and matures.
He is not Jerry Rice folks, maybe could be if developed and matures.
So he's not good until "he leads this team to [a] championship?"
How good was Randy Moss? Terrell Owens? Chris Carter? Calvin Johnson? No championships there...were they also "not good?"
Is Larry Fitzgerald "not good," yet? How about Julio Jones or A.J. Green or Dez Bryant? Enlighten us, please.
Beckham notches 1 TD per 7.4 catches and per 12.2 targets.
OBJ is considerably more efficient at scoring. He also gains more yards per catch, 15.1 vs 13.5.
But I agree OBJ is still only #2 after Brown.
And next year he will be better. He was still the system last year according to Eli.
Link - ( New Window )
Those other great receivers had at least someone to take off some of the heat. Between Beckham, Shepard & Cruz, I expect to see off the charts WR numbers this year.
Just maybe there will be a trickle down effect that will improve the running game.
He's a sensitive kid - ( New Window )
Sensitive New Age Guys - ( New Window )
Those other great receivers had at least someone to take off some of the heat. Between Beckham, Shepard & Cruz, I expect to see off the charts WR numbers this year.
Just maybe there will be a trickle down effect that will improve the running game.
We will run better. I'm thinking Jennings starts the season as the lead back but that isn't a "for sure" assessment as he is 31. We have to hope A. Williams, O. Dwarka and/or Perkins all step up to begin to take the load. We will do much better in the redzone if we can run and we will do just that.
2014
6 targets, 4 catches, 34 yds, 2 TDs
11 targets, 8 catches, 146 yds, 2 TDs(one handed catch game)
2015
8 targets, 5 catches, 44 yds, 0 TDs
6 targets, 4 catches, 35 yds, 0 TDs
In 3 of the 4 games the Dallas defense has held Beckham in check. There was only the one game when Beckham got loose.
The Dallas defense gets a bad rap, but they are not as bad as most believe when you look at them closer. Playing the "Tampa 2" defense the Dallas defense minimizes the big pass plays, they let the receivers catch everything in front of them and make sure to tackle for little YAC. Where they got hurt last year was in the run defense.
We'll see how the two games go this year.
2014
6 targets, 4 catches, 34 yds, 2 TDs
11 targets, 8 catches, 146 yds, 2 TDs(one handed catch game)
2015
8 targets, 5 catches, 44 yds, 0 TDs
6 targets, 4 catches, 35 yds, 0 TDs
In 3 of the 4 games the Dallas defense has held Beckham in check. There was only the one game when Beckham got loose.
The Dallas defense gets a bad rap, but they are not as bad as most believe when you look at them closer. Playing the "Tampa 2" defense the Dallas defense minimizes the big pass plays, they let the receivers catch everything in front of them and make sure to tackle for little YAC. Where they got hurt last year was in the run defense.
We'll see how the two games go this year.
We catch a break opening day as Dallas will be out a minimum of 3 starters due to their suspensions, including both starting DE's. I think we'll score on them and score a lot. Our offense comes back pretty much in tact and we've upgraded at FB and with experience / continuity.
And I think we hold the Dallas run game in check. Great OL or not, our DL should hold its own. All again contingent on our staying healthy and developing continuity in training camp.
2014
6 targets, 4 catches, 34 yds, 2 TDs
11 targets, 8 catches, 146 yds, 2 TDs(one handed catch game)
2015
8 targets, 5 catches, 44 yds, 0 TDs
6 targets, 4 catches, 35 yds, 0 TDs
In 3 of the 4 games the Dallas defense has held Beckham in check. There was only the one game when Beckham got loose.
The Dallas defense gets a bad rap, but they are not as bad as most believe when you look at them closer. Playing the "Tampa 2" defense the Dallas defense minimizes the big pass plays, they let the receivers catch everything in front of them and make sure to tackle for little YAC. Where they got hurt last year was in the run defense.
We'll see how the two games go this year.
Eli had his 4th and 6th worst games of the year vs Dallas last year, no doubt due to his inability to connect with OBJ in either game.
Good luck duplicating that game 1 with both your starting DEs suspended.
Eli didn't throw a single TD vs Dallas, and had QB ratings of 50 something and 69 something those 2 games, so it's not as if he took advantage of Dallas focusing on stopping OBJ.
Game 2 was better but still not great.
Giants versus Division Opponents for past few seasons has been fairly bad...
Odell averaged 96.7 rec YPG and his QB averaged a 110.6 QBR on throws to his direction. If you multiply those two numbers, Odell ends up with a 107.0 number (let's call it Wide Receiver Score, or WRsc).
Here are the top 10 WRsc from 2015.
Julio ----- 116.9 --- 105.3 ---- 123.1
Antonio --- 114.6 --- 100.6 ---- 115.3
Odell ----- 96.7 ---- 110.6 ---- 107.0
Watkins --- 80.5 ---- 123.4 ---- 99.3
Gronk ----- 78.4 ---- 120.0 ---- 94.1
Baldwin --- 66.8 ---- 139.9 ---- 93.5
AJ Green -- 81.1 ---- 112.2 ---- 91.0
Marshall -- 93.9 ---- 96.1 ----- 90.2
Hopkins --- 95.1 ---- 93.7 ----- 89.1
Robinson -- 87.5 ---- 99.2 ----- 86.8
Fitz ------ 75.9 ---- 113.8 ---- 86.4
- I actually made it 11 because Larry Fitz is the man and I had to sneak him in there, especially since there's a large drop-off after him and he just barely missed the Top 10.
- This stat correctly identifies Julio, Brown, and Odell as the top 3 in the league. Julio came out slightly ahead of Brown this year, mainly due to Brown having more INTs thrown to his direction.
- According to this stat, Sammy Watkins was probably the most underrated WR in the game last year. He's a clear 4th on this list despite having absolute shit for QB. I've always been a huge fan, he'd be a star with a QB. As deep as that WR class was, Watkins is easily my #2 favorite WR from that class behind Odell.
- The volume wasn't there compared to the elite WRs, but throwing the ball in Doug Baldwin's direction was a good idea for the Seahawks. Just insane efficiency.
- This stat passes the smell test, the guys that should belong at the top are at the top. The other "elite" guys are all in the top 10.
Odell averaged 96.7 rec YPG and his QB averaged a 110.6 QBR on throws to his direction. If you multiply those two numbers, Odell ends up with a 107.0 number (let's call it Wide Receiver Score, or WRsc).
Here are the top 10 WRsc from 2015.
Code:
Player ---- YPG ----- QBR ------ WRsc
Julio ----- 116.9 --- 105.3 ---- 123.1
Antonio --- 114.6 --- 100.6 ---- 115.3
Odell ----- 96.7 ---- 110.6 ---- 107.0
Watkins --- 80.5 ---- 123.4 ---- 99.3
Gronk ----- 78.4 ---- 120.0 ---- 94.1
Baldwin --- 66.8 ---- 139.9 ---- 93.5
AJ Green -- 81.1 ---- 112.2 ---- 91.0
Marshall -- 93.9 ---- 96.1 ----- 90.2
Hopkins --- 95.1 ---- 93.7 ----- 89.1
Robinson -- 87.5 ---- 99.2 ----- 86.8
Fitz ------ 75.9 ---- 113.8 ---- 86.4
- I actually made it 11 because Larry Fitz is the man and I had to sneak him in there, especially since there's a large drop-off after him and he just barely missed the Top 10.
- This stat correctly identifies Julio, Brown, and Odell as the top 3 in the league. Julio came out slightly ahead of Brown this year, mainly due to Brown having more INTs thrown to his direction.
- According to this stat, Sammy Watkins was probably the most underrated WR in the game last year. He's a clear 4th on this list despite having absolute shit for QB. I've always been a huge fan, he'd be a star with a QB. As deep as that WR class was, Watkins is easily my #2 favorite WR from that class behind Odell.
- The volume wasn't there compared to the elite WRs, but throwing the ball in Doug Baldwin's direction was a good idea for the Seahawks. Just insane efficiency.
- This stat passes the smell test, the guys that should belong at the top are at the top. The other "elite" guys are all in the top 10.
Aren't you double counting yards? Yards per game are included in both metrics.
Odell averaged 96.7 rec YPG and his QB averaged a 110.6 QBR on throws to his direction. If you multiply those two numbers, Odell ends up with a 107.0 number (let's call it Wide Receiver Score, or WRsc).
Here are the top 10 WRsc from 2015.
Code:
Player ---- YPG ----- QBR ------ WRsc
Julio ----- 116.9 --- 105.3 ---- 123.1
Antonio --- 114.6 --- 100.6 ---- 115.3
Odell ----- 96.7 ---- 110.6 ---- 107.0
Watkins --- 80.5 ---- 123.4 ---- 99.3
Gronk ----- 78.4 ---- 120.0 ---- 94.1
Baldwin --- 66.8 ---- 139.9 ---- 93.5
AJ Green -- 81.1 ---- 112.2 ---- 91.0
Marshall -- 93.9 ---- 96.1 ----- 90.2
Hopkins --- 95.1 ---- 93.7 ----- 89.1
Robinson -- 87.5 ---- 99.2 ----- 86.8
Fitz ------ 75.9 ---- 113.8 ---- 86.4
- I actually made it 11 because Larry Fitz is the man and I had to sneak him in there, especially since there's a large drop-off after him and he just barely missed the Top 10.
- This stat correctly identifies Julio, Brown, and Odell as the top 3 in the league. Julio came out slightly ahead of Brown this year, mainly due to Brown having more INTs thrown to his direction.
- According to this stat, Sammy Watkins was probably the most underrated WR in the game last year. He's a clear 4th on this list despite having absolute shit for QB. I've always been a huge fan, he'd be a star with a QB. As deep as that WR class was, Watkins is easily my #2 favorite WR from that class behind Odell.
- The volume wasn't there compared to the elite WRs, but throwing the ball in Doug Baldwin's direction was a good idea for the Seahawks. Just insane efficiency.
- This stat passes the smell test, the guys that should belong at the top are at the top. The other "elite" guys are all in the top 10.
Osi Osi there is one metric missing from your combined stat of "WR rating" kthat seems to me missing - one rather obvious point if I may suggest.
Given a threshold minimum of targets a receiver's YPG is heavily dependent on targets per game... Factor that in and OBJ probably vaults past Jones and Brown in those rankings, in terms of efficiency he's much more productive not only in yards but also in scoring.
I am also not sure why just using the QB ratings to a specific receiver divided by his QB overall rating wouldn't be just as valuable a metric to rate receivers against each other...