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NFT: Real Estate Question

mikeygiants : 7/23/2016 9:22 am
We are in the process of purchasing a beautiful home in the finger lakes and our buyers agent has given us some peculiar advice after a home inspection. There are two issues: radon levels are high and a tiled entryway needs to be redone. Before we knew about the radon (an easy fix with proper abatement) we planned on asking for cash at closing for the tile. Out realtor has suggested that the sellers will be "more likely to pay for the radon fix" knowing that we have four kids in the house and that we should forget the tile. I was a bit puzzled by this and even more so when she tossed in "remember there is another buyer."

The purchase process was intense. We were engaged in a bidding war and after choosing the other buyers the sellers changed their minds and picked us. The first buyers had a contingency in their offer and an addendum that altered their price if the assessment came back low. So an hour after losing out on the house it was ours! You can imagine the nerves.

Here is my question: can the sellers back out of the contract? For context the house is empty, they are an older couple now living in FL. Both attorneys have signed off. We plan on asking them to address both issues in the house. We know that they can refuse to fix or pay for either issue, but under what terms could they cancel our contract and revert to the other buyers? Google has not helped.

Of course now that the inspection has been done they have to disclose the radon issue.
They don't have to resolve the tile issue  
D-Rod : 7/23/2016 9:27 am : link
And will you will need to decide if you want to move forward or not. You only generally have a certain time period to inform them of your choice.
Unless you have a signed contract  
pjcas18 : 7/23/2016 9:27 am : link
either party can back out.

and they may not need to disclose the results of your radon test, they can have another one done, and another, and another, until they get better results. the test is cheap and there are a lot of variables that impact the results.

Radon mitigation is like $1500 tops (we had one in my old house), how much was the tile work?

I'd only add that they have more incentive to sell to you now  
Moondawg : 7/23/2016 9:28 am : link
since they have to alert all buyers to the radon from now on. They should be a little anxious about it.
They should fix the radon issue  
spike : 7/23/2016 9:30 am : link
But the tiled entryway is as is.. You can fix or remodel it yourself
Yes they can  
superspynyg : 7/23/2016 9:31 am : link
What they will do is when you ask for them to fix or give money for the fix they say NO and you either accept that and move on or walk away.

A home is not sold until the paperwork is signed by both parties.
We plan on moving forward whether or  
mikeygiants : 7/23/2016 9:32 am : link
Not they address either issue, but why would our agent suggest we not ask for both fixes? They can say no, but why would asking for fixes make or allow them to back out of our contract?
Agree with you.  
D-Rod : 7/23/2016 9:34 am : link
Ask for both and see what they come back with. Even if they say no the 1st time, cone back again ask them to cover a portion of it. It doesn't hurt to ask. Is this property in NJ?
RE: We plan on moving forward whether or  
pjcas18 : 7/23/2016 9:37 am : link
In comment 13042560 mikeygiants said:
Quote:
Not they address either issue, but why would our agent suggest we not ask for both fixes? They can say no, but why would asking for fixes make or allow them to back out of our contract?


Your realtor just wants a sale and the one with the least hassle and negotiating. You ask for what you are comfortable asking for and if a seller walks because of that then you probably saved yourself from an issue later on with a flakey seller.

Most of the time, post-inspection you present them a list of things you'd like addressed based on the results of the inspection and ask them to fix some things or with a credit at closing for others, they'll usually agree to some and not to others, so IMO and in my experience it's always better to ask for more than you really want. Because you should be prepared to accept less than you ask for.
Thanks  
mikeygiants : 7/23/2016 9:42 am : link
guys. Sounds like I should blast her in the butt before closing.
With the usual "I am not a lawyer" disclosure  
SwirlingEddie : 7/23/2016 9:43 am : link
I can suggest the following:

1) Unless you specifically hired the real estate agent (a 'buyer's' agent) then the agent works for the Seller, or more accurately, works for her or himself. This means they want the deal to close by most any means possible and saving you a few bucks is not high on her/his list.

2) What the Seller can or cannot do at this point is determined by the contract you have signed. Your attorney, who hopefully reviewed it with you before signing, should be able to go over the relevant options and potential outcomes.

3) In my personal opinion, normal wear and tear items and obvious repairs should be built into the asking price of the home. However I understand it is not uncommon these days to try to renegotiate all such items post-contract.

4) You have the right under most contracts (again, check with your attorney!) to request a concession after the inspection and the Seller has the right to say no. You then can choose to fulfill the contract at the agreed price, or cancel, forfeiting whatever deposit you may have paid. Unless of course your contract gives you a free out.

In short, the contract governs what each side can do at this point, and the consequences for not doing so. Please review with your attorney! Good luck!

Source: Banker married to a RE paralegal
..  
Named Later : 7/23/2016 9:45 am : link
mikey --
How long has that house been on the Market ?? You have a right to know that from your Realtor.

Also, that Appraisal Contingency clause is important in a Bidding War situation, you're going to want that clause in your Contract too. And don't let the Realtor tell you that "A house is worth whatever a Buyer is willing to pay for it." That is only true in an All Cash Offer. Once you get a Lender involved......you have to play by Lender Rules.
You should be asking your lawyer  
HomerJones45 : 7/23/2016 10:04 am : link
not a football message board or God forbid, Google.

Your lawyer will have the contract language in front of him or her and can tell you what rights, obligations and remedies the contract language gives each of the parties in a 5 minute phone conversation.
Not sure how NY works  
pjcas18 : 7/23/2016 10:21 am : link
but in MA, you do not sign a contract (P&S aka Purchase and Sale Agreement) until AFTER the inspection and all contingency/concessions have been agreed to.

So if NY is the same as MA there is no contract at this time. All you typically have is an accepted offer and a small, fully refundable deposit - made in good faith and to strengthen the offer (sometimes this is as little as $1000), to which either party can back out at any time for any reason.

but continue your condescension.
If my understanding is correct...  
loafin : 7/23/2016 10:23 am : link
The tile and radon issue came up during the inspection. I'm not why tile would be a contingency to closing. It's not structural and if I was the seller I wouldn't offer you anything toward "fixing" it. I think your realtor believes the same as I and is just being nice to state "remember there is another buyer". That statement also reflects the fact that the seller can pull out at any time so don't annoy the seller!

There is usually a dollar limit as to any inspection problems and if the buyer is willing to take care of the radon mitigation jump for joy and get into the house of your dreams.

RE: ..  
pjcas18 : 7/23/2016 10:24 am : link
In comment 13042573 Named Later said:
Quote:
mikey --
How long has that house been on the Market ?? You have a right to know that from your Realtor.

Also, that Appraisal Contingency clause is important in a Bidding War situation, you're going to want that clause in your Contract too. And don't let the Realtor tell you that "A house is worth whatever a Buyer is willing to pay for it." That is only true in an All Cash Offer. Once you get a Lender involved......you have to play by Lender Rules.


length of time on market is freely available with MLS, it shows up on sites like Zillow, trulia, realtor.com, etc. and you as a buyer should know this, not need a realtor to find out. But it's not something hidden.
Homerjones  
mikeygiants : 7/23/2016 10:35 am : link
Mind your beeswax.
What does  
mikeygiants : 7/23/2016 10:38 am : link
"Continue your condescension" mean?
RE: What does  
pjcas18 : 7/23/2016 10:40 am : link
In comment 13042603 mikeygiants said:
Quote:
"Continue your condescension" mean?


I thought Homerjones was being unnecessarily mean (or actually condescending). Sometimes people come here for answers (in addition to googling something or asking their lawyers or whoever else) because they know there is such a diverse group of people here with tons of life experiences) - that was all I meant.
Oh, thanks.  
mikeygiants : 7/23/2016 10:55 am : link
I thought you were talking to me. We cool bro.
I guess it comes down the situation  
bigblue1124 : 7/23/2016 11:06 am : link
We purchased our home 18 months ago. We ended up in an odd situation being we had a realtor and the home we decided on was another realtor with the same company (not sure that happens often or not)?

With that being said the home had previously sold but apparently the sale fell through for some reason. We made an offer on the home 6 months later with our agent and went through the inspection process. The inspector found many issues but with that said most were ticky tack issue’s a few weren’t. Being our first home and not interested in making repairs for a home we just bought requested the agent to have all items repaired.

His response was the seller would not want to do all of this and we should go through with the sale. We really wanted this home and were pretty disappointed to hear him say this.

So I brought my wife into another room to talk but spoke loud enough knowing he would hear me saying that we should find an agent that is looking at our best interests.

We would have walked away disappointed but content with our decision.
Well the next day sure enough we got a call that the seller approved all issues.

I hate to say it but you have to be willing to move on if you have issues. I am not sure what situation you have but if you do not feel comfortable with the home or your representation let them know.
what bigblue just said is really a hard lesson for most buyers  
gidiefor : Mod : 7/23/2016 11:17 am : link
the broker's interest - no matter what they tell you - is closing the sale -- they don't get paid unless the sale closes

there is no such thing as the only house on the market -- there are other fish in the sea -- if you feel strongly about something then you have to go with the strength of the way you feel and be prepared to walk away --- you won;t always get what you want -- but you also won't have to accept things you don't want either

even if there is a bidding war chances are very good that the next buyer will have the same issues as you -- so that's your choice -- do you want to suck it up and accept the risk -- or do you want to meekly accept what is being offered

That's how/what I advise my clients all the time in situations like this

How far you push negotiations is a personal choice  
steve in ky : 7/23/2016 11:24 am : link
and while you may end up "passing" on some, I have found that you always get your best deals when you don't fall in love with a property and you are willing to walk away without buying it if it came to that.

Now if you have fallen in love with the place and want it regardless then you have to decide if a few thousand is worth losing it over. At least decide on a number that you will be satisfied with and make a counter offer. Don't allow any realtor decide that for you or pressure you into doing something you aren't comfortable with.

Good luck.

gidiefor  
steve in ky : 7/23/2016 11:36 am : link
Exactly, the realtor shouldn't be viewed as a confidant of yours but as a negotiating aide or tool. I always try to sell the realtor (even the one I hired) harder than anyone. He is the one that must believe you are a step away from walking. If he believes it then so will the sellers realtor and by the process the sellers themselves. Use the paranoia of losing the sale of all three of them to your advantage.
I would ask for both since now you are the sole buyer of the moment  
gtt350 : 7/23/2016 11:46 am : link
they should fix the radon and maybe contribute to the tile fix. Its all negociable and very very stressful
Sounds like the RE in this area is pretty hot  
jcn56 : 7/23/2016 11:54 am : link
I bought a seasonal home last year the same way - the houses went flying off the market, and while there were always some available, most were not to our liking.

When we did find one, it came in sort of the same way - multiple buyers, some warts but nothing major.

In the end, I took the house as-is and made the repairs myself. Cost me a bit extra, but I understood I was paying a premium to get the house I wanted. No regrets here a year later.

If it's not a lot of money, I'd suggest you just consider sticking with the original terms and remediating the radon and the tile yourself. You might be able to get them to pay for some or all of it (and you can certainly ask in a less than aggressive way), but you don't want to go so far as to jeopardize the sale if you really like the place, especially if it's over a trivial sum of money.
Thanks again for all of your insight fellas  
mikeygiants : 7/23/2016 11:58 am : link
I do appreciate it.

We know the agent is in it for the $$$. When we were negotiating price
I made the point to the Mrs... When you're banking 3% a few thousand means nothing. She just wants to close. We get it.
Whereabouts jcn56  
mikeygiants : 7/23/2016 11:59 am : link
If you don't mind me asking.
North Fork of LI  
jcn56 : 7/23/2016 12:02 pm : link
We had been looking for about a year - although watching the area for several years. At one point, the market heated up and just about everything disappeared.

Granted - you can wait it out. There will be more homes, and definitely one of them will be to your liking, possibly even better. But if you like the house enough, and the cost isn't prohibitive, you'd have to ask yourself - would I have offered another X if it meant getting the house? If so, you have your answer.
Good advice from the agent  
KWALL2 : 7/23/2016 3:04 pm : link
Owners may take into account its a safety issue and not a cosmetic thing like tile. That can be the difference between getting the credit and not. Plus, with that request the sellers can expect another buyer to know about the issue and ask for the credit.

Asking for tile work? It's easier for the seller to say no. Much easier.

One more thing, asking for credits won't cause the seller to back out. They can just say no or offer partial credit. They won't back out at this point just because you asked for a credit.
The tile work issue should have been broached...  
MOOPS : 7/23/2016 3:36 pm : link
long before closing, like post inspection.
The radon issue also, when it became known.
You can try to get some bucks off the sale price at closing for the radon, but I wouldn't risk losing the sale of the house over a thousand dollar issue.
..  
Named Later : 7/23/2016 4:03 pm : link
I would never let the Seller fix an issue -- who knows what kind of half-assed job they would try. Just get a Credit on the Sale Price and you make sure you get it fixed to your satisfaction. The Radon is a known issue, get an Estimate to remediate and ask for Credit. The tile is a minor in the big picture, use it as a bargaining chip and let the seller know you're compromising to make this sale work. If that house has been on the Market for a while (Spring Selling Season ? ), the Seller will be motivated.

You must insist on the Appraisal Contingency, especially if the sale price got bid up beyond market value.

Keep in mind, your Realtor probably only pockets 1% of the Sales Price -- he has to split the 5% with the Listing Office, and each Office's Broker will get half of the 2.5% commission. Subtract the Realtors expenses, and the tax due on 1099 income.....and he will be locky to clear $2000 on a $250K sale. Whether the Sale closes at $250K or $230K is basically immaterial to the Realtor.....he just wants to get paid.
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